Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: outlaw6 on June 21, 2004, 02:07:36 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I love AH, AHI was cool and AHII is even better However, HTC has it all wrong when it comes to what computer you need... I used to have a 1.2 celeron with radeon 9600 all in wonder pro. I had around 32 FPS, with sound lagging afte the shots, it was playable but nothing too good. According to HTC, this should be ample. Now, I got a P4 3.0Ghz HT CPU 512 mb of dual DDR 400 memory with the same card, and frames top out at 60 (which is what i have it locked in at). Maybe you should review your specs. Another thing i noticed, the new CPU gives the flight model much more realism.
For those of you whinning about AHII's realism, you should try Comabt Flight Sim 3. After a week of it, AH II will be easy :P
just my thoughts
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You have your new system locked at 60 fps. What were you getting on the old system?
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Anything over 30fps is acceptable for a game. Anything over 60fps, and physically human eyes don't feel any difference on a conscious level(studies report some action in the subconscious level though).
The key, is the stability of the frame rates, not the highest recorded number of fps - highest recorded number of fps is pretty meaningless.
Basically if your machine stays solid between 30+ at all times, and never drops under that, its ok.
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im finding that my monitor is limiting me in framerate. i can only get a refresh rate of 60 on my monitor.
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It's around 72fps, IIRC. Golly-geeit, this eye fps number comes up on every bulletin board at some point in time, you'd think I'd remember a link by now.
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24 frames per second, this is the speed at which 35mm motion picture film is shot at. Most video runs at 30fps, anything over this is really not nessecary to preceive natural motion. The eyes can see beyond this rate, but the brain generally doesn't notice it...
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Yawn...ok...let me add me 2¢ (BTW I did some work on this in college...so please dont quote some no name newsgroup post as fact :D )
~24 FPS is aproximate minimum at which they eye can tell the diference between a stream of still pictures and a normal 'smooth' video. This does not mean the eye cannot see a diference...it just means that is where you no longer are distracted by a frame by frame look. A good example is an inexpensive digital camera that takes movies....they typically do 15 fps...which looks OK...but you can tell its a little off. Bear in mind that this # does not mean 100% realism...it only means you cant dicern individual frames.
~72 Hz is the minimum where you can no longer decern FLICKER (60 and below everyone sees flicker....60-68 most people see flicker....68-72 some people see flicker....above 72 almost no one can see flicker). Take a strobe at 72 Hz and it will look like a solid light to you. This is why monitor refresh rate minimums should be kept at 72 Hz or better.
Now...lets remember that the 72 Hz has NOTHING to do with decerning smooth motion, it does however indirectly effect your ability to feel smooth motion (see below)
The key issue with video games and not being able to call 24 FPS the golden target is twofold. Firstly, there is the issue of control input and framrate consistancy. There is very little chance of you having an average 30 fps average without droping (even if for just a moment) well into the low 20's or teens. This is immediately noticed by the player. Secondly, there is little or no motion blur in video games. This accentuates you ability to 'feel' something isnt smooth, becuase all thru your life, you are used to motion blur. Higher frame rates compensate for this by aproaching the 72 Hz flicker tollerance at which point the missing motion blur is overcome.
As an example, please take a look at one of the old stop-motion christmas specials or old monster movies. You dont feel the characters are real moving because there is NO MOTION BLUR....just like in computer games. This is because the animation is done frame by frame with moving apendages in perfect focus. This has be overcome in recient years with techniques that induce motion blur, ie: Stan Winstons 'Go-Motion'. All new high end computer animation has this induces motion blur.
In general 30 FPS average will provide a good game experience. Get to 40-50 FPS and most people are very very happy, even the most elite hardcore "I can tell damnit" gamers are unable to see anything past 60FPS in double blind testing.
ok
I'm done
(http://www.combathanger.com/sinature04.gif) (http://www.combathanger.com/)
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
You have your new system locked at 60 fps. What were you getting on the old system?
My old system was also locked at 60 ;)
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Oh hell, the ole perceivable frame rate debate. This comes up at least twice a week for a good 30 minute argument in game .
If it`s working for you, use it. If not, trash it.
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Originally posted by twitchy
24 frames per second, this is the speed at which 35mm motion picture film is shot at. Most video runs at 30fps, anything over this is really not nessecary to preceive natural motion. The eyes can see beyond this rate, but the brain generally doesn't notice it...
You are completly incorrect. Motion pictures use motion blur for a reason.
Human eye can perceive up to 70 FPS. I can personally notice a big difference between 45 FPS and 60.
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Great explanation Alf, thanks :)
Always wondered.
cheers,
RTR
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>>Secondly, there is little or no motion blur in video games. <<
You know what? That is EXACTLY whats missing. I wonder how long before video cards with introduce motion blur? Maybe for Aces High III :D I can hope. That would be so cool.
I wonder what the overhead would be to do it at a software level? Even if not perfect- just some blurring of movement. Hmm I guess even simple would put too much work on the cpu. Thats got to be the next generation of video cards.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Secondly, there is little or no motion blur in video games. <<
You know what? That is EXACTLY whats missing. I wonder how long before video cards with introduce motion blur? Maybe for Aces High III :D I can hope. That would be so cool.
The Nvidia GPU in the Xbox can do motion blur.
ack-ack
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I was editing as you posted Ack-ack. Ty for the info. Its has to be close for pc cards then.
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Here's a good read on frame rates:
http://www.avault.com/articles/getarticle.asp?name=fpsconspiracy&page=1
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Woow!:eek:
I'm Running a PIII 850 and still can play AHII:p I wish I could get a contant 20 fpm . I guess it's just what your reference is as to what is playable.
Slot