Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Rafe35 on June 21, 2004, 05:47:22 PM
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Got any tips for P-51B? Cuz I suck flying on P-51B and willing need training. :D
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Punt
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Fly it like the D model , just pretend your spelling is bad.
Now the serious answer. I think you would actually fly it like the D model. Of course you have 1/3 less firepower so you have to consider that. Altitude would also have an effect on plane performance. I know in real life the B didn't fare to well at higher altitudes, at least the tv shows and stuff mention that.
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The B model is a bit lighter I believe as well. It will turn better than the D model, and I think outperforms it below 15K (although could just be my opinion).
Rafe, as for flying it I think Fuze is right. Fly it like the D model, but realize that it's not going to have the performance at higher altitudes, but turns much better. Use it as an energy fighter. Fly the angles. You will find that it does turn remarkably well (though not in the class of the SpitV or IX, or N1K etc.)
cheers,
RTR
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Thanks, guys. :)
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damn I forgot some of the info I found on the B... basically it is a little lighter than the D with a silghtly different engine. At some alititudes the D outperforms the B and visa versa. If memory serves the B outclimbs the D starting at about 8K. The B is also faster between 9 and 14k and again at high alts (somthing like 27K).
I'm generally a little more agressive in the B and willing to mix it up more. Maybe it's just perceived but I find the B to be more manuverable.
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"I know in real life the B didn't fare to well at higher altitudes, at least the tv shows and stuff mention that."
This is completely wrong for the model of P-51B we have in AH. Far from being bad at high altitude, the P51B we have in AH is actually far superior to the P-51D at above 25K or so. In fact, incredible performance at over 20K is the P-51B's most noticable asset in AH, being one of the very best fighters in the game at 30K (better than a 190D-9, better than a 109G-10, better than a Tempest, better than virtually anything with a prop that we have in AH at that altitude). At 30K the P-51B has over twice the climbrate of the P-51D and is faster too.
Later in the production run, P-51's received a different engine that improved performance at low altitudes at the cost of reducing performance at high altitude. Later model P-51B/C's and ALL P-51D/K's had that lower-rated engine, which was NOT viewed as an improvement by a majority of pilots (although it gives the P-51D a marked edge over our early-model P-51B in the low altitudes of the MA).
The only versions of the Mustang that was truly bad at high altitude were the various Allison-powered versions, none of which are represented in AH. It is highly likly that the producers of that T.V. show confused the Allison Mustangs with the early P-51B's.
The moral of the story? Take anything you see on T.V. with a grain of salt!
J_A_B
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Rafe,
Think of it as hunting and not dogfighting. Stay above your enemy, use your speed and roll rate advantage over him. "When your not fighting, your climbing." Never make level turns always keep your nose pointed up. Keep your speed up... Learn to roll your way out of things other than just banking the plane.
Most important of all... get seat time in it.. learn it... learn how it reacts to certian situtations...
That is what has helped me... and I am by no means a great pilot on here...
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J_A_B, thanks for correcting me. I should know anything using TV as a reference has some bs involved.
I shall remember this.
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Oh and as for actually flying/fighting in the P-51:
First of all, and most importantly, you do not HAVE to be the highest/fastest plane around. You do not HAVE to always stay fast. Flying like that will only cause you to be timid and an excessive runner, which probably describes most of the P-51's you encounter in the MA.
Avoid very low altitudes if you can in a P-51B because, frankly, it sucks in the weeds. Its engine is tuned for high altitude flying. It isn't completely helpless on the deck, but is decidedly out of its element. Terrains with a high "deck" level, like Mindanao, or Pizza or parts of Trinity, tend to be good for the P-51B. staying above about 5K will do much to keep you alive in a P-51B.
Properly loaded, the P-51 is perfectly capable of dogfighting against things like the 190's, F4U's, and Yak-9's. LA7's tended to beat me more often than not in a slow fight under about 7500 feet--but I had a bad habit of running into the better LA7 pilots.
There is over a 600 FPM in difference between a light and a fully-loaded P-51D in climbrate at low altitude, not even acconting for external stores. The P-51B is equally as weight-sensitive.
Do not overload the Mustang. Flying around with 75% fuel, full ammo, and rocket tubes (in the case of the B) will result in you being a SLUG. A light enough P-51B can hold its own against even things like P-38's and F6F's, but Spits and N1K2's will always eat you alive in a dogfight. Be more aggressive as your plane gets lighter. I would avoid doing much slow fighting if I had more than about 75% fuel in my wing tanks or ANYTHING in the AUX tank. Always, ALWAYS drain that AUX tank first, even if you have droptanks. Even a little gas in that tank can mess with the stability of the P-51 and it rapidly becomes annoying in a dogfight.
Always maintain good SA, but that is true for any aircraft. Do frequent S-turns to check your rear blind spot in the P-51B.
In the P-51B, be a good shot. 4 guns are adequate, but you don't get as much ammo as you do in the other American fighters. I always liked the B because it is a very stable gun platform, noticably more stable than the -D.
J_A_B
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Thanks, guys and I fly P-51B really well :D
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Get with jonnyb. Not sure he stills flies it but he's the best I've ever seen in it.
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the P51B is not a good turn and burn sure its better then the D but it just runs out of E and cant replace
the YAK kills the P51 b or d with ease its just better to boom zoom the yak with a big E over it or you well die unless you are facing a dweeb or have a very bigg E over it
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Originally posted by DipStick
Get with jonnyb. Not sure he stills flies it but he's the best I've ever seen in it.
Thanks for the compliment. I feel there are far better sticks in the bravo than I, but I can certainly hold my own.
J_A_B sums things up well in his posts. The things I've learned in my time with the bravo are as follows:
1) Set your convergence to no more than 250. Don't take shots outside your convergence as the 4 M2s simply don't pack enough punch to do anything more than annoy your target at long range (unless you get lucky and hit him in a critical location). Pick a point on your target and concentrate fire there. Because of the 4 guns, make the burst solid, at convergence, and on a single point.
2) The bravo turns better than most people expect, especially with a notch of flaps and elevators trimmed up. At best cornering speed the bravo will outturn most of the true turn-n-burn planes. This doesn't mean you can get cocky because that advantage is quickly lost once the energy is gone.
3) She's a fun ride. It doesn't feel as heavy as the delta, even when comparably loaded. Below 10k, the delta will outclimb you, but above 14k you'll own the shiny one. You'll outturn the delta at all altitudes, and outrun her above 25k.
4) Learn to check your 6 often by using swooping S turns. The blind spot is pretty large thanks to the razorback.
Things in AH2 are mostly the same except for the gunnery. With AH1 I used to take down heavies with ease. Now with the revamped hit model things are quite a bit tougher. Just the other night I dumped most of my ammo into a formation of JU88s. The result was two of them down and the third flying away (damaged, but still airborn). I'm sure this will work itself out with practice, but for now it's a learning curve.
Hope this helps.
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I'm not sure if the AH2 P-51B flight model has changed much from the AH1 version but you can take a look at my AH Aircraft Pages for my tips/tricks/suggestions:
Soda's Aircraft Evaluations (http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models)
I'll have to get into updating the pages with the new AH2 model info. It'll take me a few months to get some stick time in each to see how they may, or may not, have changed.
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Originally posted by simshell
tthe YAK kills the P51 b or d with ease its just better to boom zoom the yak with a big E over it or you well die unless you are facing a dweeb or have a very bigg E over it
Maybe in AH2, hardly ever happend in AH1..
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Originally posted by WldThing
Maybe in AH2, hardly ever happend in AH1..
AH1 and much more in AH2
iv never had much trouble with any boom zoom plane in a YAK-u when the fight gets even
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A P-51D with 4 guns and a fairly light fuel load is an excellent match for a Yak-9U, being virtually even in maneuverability and climb rate.
Thing is, most P-51D pilots fly with a decidedly heavier loadout--myself included much of the time. Being light for a 1 vs 1 doesn't much help in a 15 vs 15. If I'm in less-crowded airspace I'll typically take the ligher loadout, although since my return to AH the 4-gun option seems like more of a liability (my shooting is extremely rusty). The P-51 is rather weight-sensative with regards to its fighting ability.
The P-51B is at a slight disadvantage versus the Yak in a prolonged fight at low altitudes due to its engine.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
A P-51D with 4 guns and a fairly light fuel load is an excellent match for a Yak-9U, being virtually even in maneuverability and climb rate.
Thing is, most P-51D pilots fly with a decidedly heavier loadout--myself included much of the time. Being light for a 1 vs 1 doesn't much help in a 15 vs 15. If I'm in less-crowded airspace I'll typically take the ligher loadout, although since my return to AH the 4-gun option seems like more of a liability (my shooting is extremely rusty). The P-51 is rather weight-sensative with regards to its fighting ability.
The P-51B is at a slight disadvantage versus the Yak in a prolonged fight at low altitudes due to its engine.
J_A_B
yes the P51B ENG was made for low alt but dont forget the YAK was made for low alt to
and look at the POUNDS of both planes the yak is like a TON lighter even with the lightest P51B the yak can still beat it in a even E fight
and like i said the YAK-u is a monster when it comes to regaining lost E the P51D or B is not
the yak-u wins in a turn fight or a loop fight or anything not counting a HO
o by the way the yak is better at climbing
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"yes the P51B ENG was made for low alt but dont forget the YAK was made for low alt to "
My point is that the P-51B is NOT good at low altitude, hence why it is at a disadvantage.
Bet you didn't know this, but a P-51D with 4 gun and light fuel load will be within 100 FPM of a normally-loaded Yak-9U's climb rate on the deck, and will turn as well if not better. The reason you don't see this in the MA is because 99% of P-51's are flown in a far heavier configuration. As I noted above, the P-51 is extremely weight-sensitive and a heavy P-51 (which is most of them) WILL be meat for a Yak-9U.
BTW do not look at weight alone as an indicator of turn aility. The F6F Hellcat can out-maneuver many planes which weigh less :)
J_A_B
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Originally posted by simshell
AH1 and much more in AH2
iv never had much trouble with any boom zoom plane in a YAK-u when the fight gets even
No Yak could ever beat my pony in AH1, equal E, and merge alt.. And i've had many duels...
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The Bravo model has became my favorite ride of all. Soda's evals still hold true to AH2 for this bird regarding the supercharger. 17k is the medium alt where this one really cruises, vs about 12k for D. That is usually too high for most fights, but you can cover distance quickly and economically at that alt. It gets there quickly enough too, starting non-wep climb is around 3k/min and it doesn't slow much if any with alt in AH2. The performance kicks in again around 30k for the B, vs apx 25 for D. I find the first 2 notches of flap work very well for increasing lift/turn rates at about 225 to 300 mph. The main thing I had to learn that surprised me was that often you must slow down, which seems contraindicated to a noob. If it has one knock against it, it's that you can't spray and pray, but I can live with that. I love this plane. Even though the guns are small, it's how you use them that matters most;) You can saw off buff wings at 200 yds when they are converged to that distance, you can't do that pulling gs on fighters but they do get the job done. You also get a lot of sister kissers or assists, but why be a kill hog? While on paper many planes can beat it, it's so stable and so fast that often you can afford to check out the enemy's pilot's skill level, and if in your judgement you've got him beat, the plane won't let you down. If he scares you, you can usually split. I also think it's a good beginner's ( which I am, relatively speaking ) plane, although I'm sure some would take issue with that. It won't teach any bad habits and it's ez to fly. Another plus is the icon. Enemies think you're flying the D model and jump you readily. It's fun if you can sucessfully surprise them with unexpected manuverability, especially D model pony drivers with less stick time :) Were it not for this plane, I would not find AH so addicting. I'm far from an expert on this plane, having only flown it for a short while, but as you can see, the plane generates a lot of enthusiasm, at least from certain cows.
airCOW 11th Arctic Storm