Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wotan on June 22, 2004, 11:34:37 AM
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When someone mentions 60 years ago in June what is the first thought that pops in your head? D-Day? Well for most on this BBS D-Day was the major event of WW2. As westerners how many think of “Operation Bagration?
On June 22, 1944; the third anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, a Soviet force consisting of 1,700,00 troops and supported by 6,000 aircraft, 3,000 tanks and 24,000 artillery pieces destroyed Army Group Center. In co-operation with Operation Bagration the Soviet Northern Armies attacked through the Baltic States and encircled Army Group North.
Operation Bagration was the most disastrous defeat suffered by the Germans in the war, costing the Wehrmacht more men and material than the defeat at Stalingrad. Within a matter of weeks afterward, the Red Army reached Warsaw and was set for their final assault toward Berlin.
There is no denying the contribution of all the allied powers in defeating Germany but we should try to keep it in perspective. World War 2 wasn’t won in Normandy or in the air over the Germany. It was won on the ground, on the eastern Steppes.
Despite what you may think of Stalin and the Soviet Regime during the period the soldiers of the Red Army deserve the respect they have earned along their long march to Berlin.
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Thank you!
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I think it was Hitler that defeated Hitler
he never should have started a two front war
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Originally posted by Eagler
I think it was Hitler that defeated Hitler
he never should have started a two front war
ya? well I think it was the art institute that did not accept Hitler that defeated Hitler. Imagine all that hate on canvas instead of the trenches in WW2.. He could have been one of the greatest artist of all time..
No since in taking away from the Russians Eagler... They did their part..
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
No since in taking away from the Russians Eagler... They did their part..
He's not taking anything away from the Russians. Hes stating the obvious.
I think its only fair, however, that we also start a thread about the war crimes that the former USSR committed on their way to Berlin.
Afterall, Im sure a thread would be started if the Americans had done so... right?
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ahha someone else has the wardbirds desktop calander to!
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
He's not taking anything away from the Russians. Hes stating the obvious.
I think its only fair, however, that we also start a thread about the war crimes that the former USSR committed on their way to Berlin.
Afterall, Im sure a thread would be started if the Americans had done so... right?
You cutting bait for another thread here? :lol
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
He's not taking anything away from the Russians. Hes stating the obvious.
I think its only fair, however, that we also start a thread about the war crimes that the former USSR committed on their way to Berlin.
Afterall, Im sure a thread would be started if the Americans had done so... right?
The two front invasion was not 'obvious' suicide at the time it was undertaken. Had the Russian army not stood for the challange, all could be different today.. Basically, Hitler would not have defeated Hitler had the Russian Army failed to fight for their country..
Was it Hitler that defeated Hitler at Normandy? I dont think I have ever heard anyone say that.. But then, that was an American invasion..
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Without the need to protect against Allied heavy bombing raids from the west, German generals could have added 20,000 extra artillary pieces used as AA plus men and material to the eastern front. Would this have had an effect on the outcome in the east..
Could the 88 pop a T34 turret as well as anything else? How bout 20,000 88's....
IKON
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Originally posted by Eagler
I think it was Hitler that defeated Hitler
he never should have started a two front war
He could have fought a two-front war... Just not one where one of those two fronts was Russian.
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The Allies beat Hitler. WTG Red Army.
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Who cares about the russians then, now or ever!
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Was it Hitler that defeated Hitler at Normandy? I dont think I have ever heard anyone say that..
Yes, I'll say it
and BOB too..with Goerings help..
not taking anything away from any countries sacrifice but it was a team effort from all fronts which with germanys poor decisions which turned the tide for the allies
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Originally posted by Eagler
Yes, I'll say it
and BOB too..with Goerings help..
not taking anything away from any countries sacrifice but it was a team effort from all fronts which with germanys poor decisions which turned the tide for the allies
well ok then.. I read you wrong 8)
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when i think about june 22, i think about my grannie who is 98 today :)
happy birthday grannie!
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Is it true that Hitler was found in a Bunker quivering after British or French Troops over ran his position in the First World War?
Seems like a quick bullet in the head might have prevented many in the future.
But then again Hindsight is always 20/20.
A Salute to Russia for Operation Bagration.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
He could have fought a two-front war... Just not one where one of those two fronts was Russian.
yes he *could* have. Only if the Japanese attacked the USSR to, or he had luanch a month early and gotten to moscow.
Red Army
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Originally posted by storch
Who cares about the russians then, now or ever!
You do.
Cause now you're my biatch.
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Wotan
Do you know any good books on it?
Sounds interesting.
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Good starter for under 20 bucks:
(http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/P4784AL.JPG)
Zaloga's Osprey book is a nice intro, and it has some very good, Osprey style, illustrations that really clear things up a lot.
"Hitler's Greatest Defeat" by Col. Adair (who worked a lot with David Glantz) is a good study from the Soviet side
Also Neipold's "The Battle for White Russia" is good asd well.
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Thanks
Sounds interesting!!