Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Silat on June 23, 2004, 08:05:23 PM
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This is more than a game. It is a chat room with planes. Or at least it should be in my opinion.
Community , community , community.
I have made some lifelong friends since I started flying back in the Jurrasic age of AW. My eldest daughter was in London and met Spiffy and his lovely wife. When I go to Seattle to visit my daughter I hook up with a handful of flight simmers that have become friends. I flew to Myrtle Beach to play golf with fellow flight simmers I had only known online. I will be hanging with NB and his son in Seattle in a month or 2. Who would have thought a game could actually produce real life acquaintences and fellow sheep shaggers?
Channel 1 in lieu of Officer Clubs was better than nothing. AW had it right by having an OC that you entered when you joined the game. There you could see all, friendlies and enemas, who were entering the game with you. You could chat and make friends which builds COMMUNITY.
I believe a strong (with teeth) and visual Moderator/Training corp would be the glue that holds the community together. This would have stopped 99% of the bad behavior on #1.
I hope that HTC sees how important community is to this type of game and does something about it.
:D
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I completly agree with what Silat has said. He said it so well, there is not much I can add. I 2nd the notion.
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And channel 200 prevents this how?
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Well said, Silat. HTC, please bring back channel 1, with moderators as needed!! I volunteer.
If we don't have the community, we might as well be fighting AI-controlled drones (which is what it seems like now).
Channel 200 doesn't seem to be an adequate substitute, because most people don't use it.
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This is why Silat is so well respected, couldnt agree more
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No more obnoxious or bad talk on one. Its a lot better now. Thank You HTC and the Staff at Aces High.
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Silat's respected? :rofl
On another note.... you came to MB and didn't even let me know? You slugdweeblowlifewannabeabishs heephordingbanana :p
luv ya bro, give me a hug :D
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I'd forgotten all about the oc. That was fun. I'm still hoping ch200 takes off, but I just have a bone stuck in my throat, and it is the idea because not everyone liked the conversation, it should be pushed in a back room. That is in no way defending people who abused ch1 with masked obscenity - even on 200 those type of people need to be silenced. But I think a lot of people got that feathers ruffled over the smack talk. Its beyond me how someone can't just ignore that without muting the channel - JUST DONT READ THE WHITE LETTERS or grow a hide. So instead of untilizing a faculty most adults posses ( the ability to ignore distractions) its gota be a software function. They're book burners. It not about what they are exposed to, its about controlling what YOU are exposed to.
They'll go after ch200 - bet on it - they never stop. Its a power grab and that type is power hungry.
That MY opinion lol - burn that.
(in a shrill hysterical voice)BUT WE *NEED* TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN!!!
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I believe a strong (with teeth) and visual Moderator/Training corp would be the glue that holds the community together. This would have stopped 99% of the bad behavior on #1.
What is the problem with tuning to 200 now? Is that, so hard?
More moderators would just create another type of problem. What hitech has done is simple. Removed the problem with an avenue for the community to still "glue" (I think vent is more accurate) as you call it.
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Just a very strange occurance that no one seems to use ch. 200. The fact is ch1 was so lively before it was taken away, you know most people could deal with it. Also there were not very many whines regaurding to taking ch1 away. Only when it was actually taken away did people want it back. Tuning to ch200 is just as easy. It must be a great task for ppl to tune to ch200 tho. IDK ch1 just seemed much more convieniant. I dont understand why ch1 was taken away and replaced in the first place, both could be "untuned/or squelched, and both serve the same purpose. Seems like alota work to just basically change the look of the old ch1.
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Daddog,
Most people behaved themselves on channel 1. It is illogical to punish the majority for the transgressions of a badly-behaved but vocal minority, if viable alternatives exist. The moderator idea is a viable alternative.
There are lots of analogous situations in society. For example, some people drive drunk. Which solution is better, eliminating automobiles for the majority, or policing the drunks?
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ESPN8 "The Ocho" (The Movie Dodgeball)
:D
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The problem with channel 200 is that most people don't use it. This doesn't mean they don't want to talk, however.
For example, the other day I had an interesting, inconclusive dogfight which lasted 15 minutes. Since neither of us died, I had no easy way to ID my opponent, even though I wanted to exchange observations after I landed. I eventually tracked the guy down by:
1) Guessing his country by looking at ownership of nearby bases.
2) Going on channel 200 and asking if anyone was on from that country.
3) When someone on channel 200 finally replied in the affirmative, I described the situation, which took some time, and requested the person go on that country's channel and inquire as to the ID of my opponent. They kindly agreed to do this.
4) I was later informed of the likely ID of my opponent, and guessing at the spelling, typed his ID into the radio and was able to contact him.
5) Even though my opponent hadn't tuned into channel 200, it turned out that they were still willing to exchange friendly comments on the recent fight.
Note how complicated this all was. Had channel 1 still been operational, I would have been able to inquire directly, and would have gotten an answer immediately, not 15 minutes later after I landed.
Get the picture??? :-)
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Where is HTC, seriously! They need to see this. :)
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I dont understand why ch1 was taken away and replaced in the first place
We have always had 200. We also have 201, 202, 203, …
Most people behaved themselves on channel 1. It is illogical to punish the majority for the transgressions of a badly-behaved but vocal minority, if viable alternatives exist. The moderator idea is a viable alternative.
Apparently not. How many customers have you lost because moderators were not on “having to police”? Or how many have customers have you lost because a moderator did police things a little too well and you spent an hour on the phone dealing with someone who was offended because they were muted. No offence, but you are looking at this from your side only.
As for the drunk driving analogy, sorry that is a very poor example. HTC does not make any $ on channel one. Everyone’s money is spent. There is not any consequence to his removing it (except for a few whines). Yet it is ludicrous to think that our society could remove automobiles/transportation.
I am sure HTC has seen this thread. ;)
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Originally posted by daddog
Apparently not. How many customers have you lost because moderators were not on “having to police”? Or how many have customers have you lost because a moderator did policed things a little too well and you spent an hour on the phone dealing with someone who was offended because they were muted. No offence, but you are looking at this from your side only.
I've seen posts about ppl very disappointed with ch1 (amongst other things) and were contemplating quiting. That also counts as loosing a customer. So we need to find a happy medium. Not just from "your side or mine" so to speak. ;) Because after all, these our just opinions, right? :D
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Originally posted by 68bear
No more obnoxious or bad talk on one. Its a lot better now. Thank You HTC and the Staff at Aces High.
What you guys dont understand is the fact that this "bad talk" is confined to just a few bad apples. Many of us enjoy interacting with other players... ALL PLAYERS. With No Ch1, the "community" aspect of the game has been taken way out of the picture.
I can't help but think HTC is more concerned with getting new players on board and less concerned with how the players who have been around for a while feel about changes that are being made.
DO NOT get me wrong here. I understand HTC's concerns. But I also beleive that there needs to be a middle ground to be had. Rather, we have "That takes care of that" and its gone and it doesn't matter if you like it or not.
I couldn't agree MORE with Silat with what he said. I have completely removed myself from the game. Myself, and many of my squad mates are even looking for new games out there to play. Thats not something I like to admit, nor like to think about. I really loved Aces High for many reasons. The biggest was the fact that no matter what was going on in the air, I always had something to talk about and someone to talk to on Ch1.
Many of you guys who talk about how bad Ch1 is don't understand the simple fact that it wasn't always 'bad' nor was it really that 'bad' just before it was taken away. We seemed to get a few very bad apples that came into the game. I've said it many times before. A little smack talk or poking fun is good IMHO. It puts some competition into the game. Adds.... Well it adds some 'spice'... What we have now is just a bland plain white wrapper filled with nothing more than saw dust.
The player interaction is near NIl. WHat I mean is player interaction with in the community as a whole. Not just with your fellow countrymen. Which to me (the community aspect) is what kept me around and playing as long and as much as I used to and hoped to keep doing. Its sad but I really just dont want to play anymore because of this horrible change.
HiTech when I talked to you a while back (on the phone) you honestly were making some sence to me. With your reasons for getting rid of Ch1... I still had my doubts that it was a 'good thing' for the game but I was not about to tell you what I thought you should do with your company.
Well I still wont tell you what I think you should do but I will tell you what I think about the change you've made to the game with getting rid of Ch1 completely and offering no 'middle ground' (by middle ground I mean keep Ch1 but offer it as default off). You said there were mods in the game (many of them). I can almost positively say that is not the case. I've seen many times one person rolling off one absurd remark after another with near impunity. For an hour or more at times. Where were the mods then?
Basicly what I think you did to the game is take a well rounded COMMUNITY BASED game and turned it into little more than solitary confinment. That whole circle of 400+ friends is not broken up and separated like children. And its sad because not all acted as such. And the ones that did were not properly dealt with, because if they were they wouldn't have continued to be seen spewing garbage.
When I first started playing I learned a TON of info from Ch1 by reading what was going on and what was being said. I had a very easy way to ask a question and have it answered almost immediately. New players no longer have this option. I highly doubt most new players coming into the game even know about Ch200. They do not have the benifit that others had when they were able to ask a question to not only those on their team but to ask it to the entire Main Arena. And lets face it, when you ask a question on Ch2 the likely hood of you getting an answer it next to imposible many times. But if you call out that a vulch is going on players will jump out of their chairs and flock to one base for 2 or 3 vulches. Ch1 was seen by all that had it tuned. It was used by the vast majority of those who played the game. Those who complained cried like little girls about how bad it was COULD have and SHOULD have squelched it, if it was as hard to stand as they seem to think it was.
Its like lighting a torch, touching it, getting burnt, and doing it again. Hey stupid! Turn it off! Then go on your marry way.
Basicly what I think about the whole thing is simple...
Blah.
But I guess it no longer matters what I think or anyone else thinks. Right?
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I totally agree Morph. If it is so simple just to turn ch200 or not, then what was not so simple about typing ".squelch 1" if you did not want to see it? I'd just rather have it back and as Morpheus has said, have it defaulty set to "off mode".
Also if ppl get offended for being muted for 10 min, or can not handle being moderated because of something previous that they have said, they need to learn to quit typing the obscenities.
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The problem with channel 200 is that most people don't use it. This doesn't mean they don't want to talk, however.
For two reasons. 1st it is not automatically tuned to 200. And why? Well that is because it would become a Channel 1. 2nd players have only been using 200 for a few days. Can you give it 6 months a year? I think you will find most of the regulars will be tuning to it.
For example, the other day I had an interesting, inconclusive dogfight which lasted 15 minutes. Since neither of us died, I had no easy way to ID my opponent, even though I wanted to exchange observations after I landed. I eventually tracked the guy down by:
1) Guessing his country by looking at ownership of nearby bases.
2) Going on channel 200 and asking if anyone was on from that country.
3) When someone on channel 200 finally replied in the affirmative, I described the situation, which took some time, and requested the person go on that country's channel and inquire as to the ID of my opponent. They kindly agreed to do this.
4) I was later informed of the likely ID of my opponent, and guessing at the spelling, typed his ID into the radio and was able to contact him.
5) Even though my opponent hadn't tuned into channel 200, it turned out that they were still willing to exchange friendly comments on the recent fight.
Note how complicated this all was. Had channel 1 still been operational, I would have been able to inquire directly, and would have gotten an answer immediately, not 15 minutes later after I landed.
Get the picture??? :-)
Yes, but again only one side of the picture you paint. You describe an inconvenience. I wonder how many HTC lost accounts they could describe due to abuse of channel 1.
For me the bottom line is I wish we could use Channel 1. I usually say hello to guys from other countries as you probably do. I have been around a long time and have several friends that fly for other countries. It is a pain to private tune all those guys just to say hi. It is real easy to use Channel 1, say hello, and chat, but I understand why they pulled it and fully support their reasons.
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The 200 switch is one of the most brilliant things HTC has ever done. My kudos.
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Daddog,
The long quote in your last post is from my post. In it, you inadvertently modified what I was saying (item #2). Would appreciate it if you would edit your post to correct this. Thanks, in advance. :-)
BTW, I am not asking HTC to lose money, as I want them to continue to exist and prosper. This game is priceless. I do believe however, that a properly moderated channel 1 would please more people than it would displease, and thus that they would not be hurt financially. No data to support this belief, however.
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I still fail to see what channel 200 doesn't offer that channel 1 did except for one thing: a more or less captive audience.
The only other solution that I could see would be to keep channel 1 but offer either one or both of the following: a perma squelch for it or a feature that allows you to disable/enable it. Seems to me that we already have one of them in channel 200.
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Whats wrong with bringing chan 1 back and allowing the community to sanction folks. for example, you get squelched if more than 15 type squelch .(yourname) in ten minutes... just one example but being judged by your peers seems like a fair way to police. Or, HT could promote chan 200 so more folks know of it... there are many ways to to accomplish something...
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TDeacon, corrected! Thanks for pointing that out. That is what I get for debating something while trying to get the kids to bed. :rolleyes:
rabbid, I think in a short period of time anyone new to the game will hear about 200 and tune to it if they wish.
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>>The 200 switch is one of the most brilliant things HTC has ever done. My kudos.
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I agree, but its not original. Throughout history, "unpleasant voice " have been removed (e.g., poisoning philosphers, puratanism, communism, and our current "political correctness.")
But everytime, its lead to change. I can't wait to see how this changes a virtual society.
Book burners have a very poor k/d ratio :D I guess because they burn more than they read.
"I DON'T LIKE THAT!!! Remove it!!"
(in a shrill, hysterical, paternalistic voice) "WE MUST ****SAVE**** the ****CHILDREN****!!!!"
Yea right - and power has nothing to do with it eh?
Was just too hard to tune out the smack talk eh? Was just to hard not to read it eh? Yea right - sell it to someone in with a double digit IQ. Anyone in triple digits knows its a power play.
Trivia question - what was the reason given for executing Socrates? (if you didn't burn the damn book you'll know).
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Originally posted by TDeacon
The problem with channel 200 is that most people don't use it. This doesn't mean they don't want to talk, however.
For example, the other day I had an interesting, inconclusive dogfight which lasted 15 minutes. Since neither of us died, I had no easy way to ID my opponent, even though I wanted to exchange observations after I landed. I eventually tracked the guy down by:
1) Guessing his country by looking at ownership of nearby bases.
2) Going on channel 200 and asking if anyone was on from that country.
3) When someone on channel 200 finally replied in the affirmative, I described the situation, which took some time, and requested the person go on that country's channel and inquire as to the ID of my opponent. They kindly agreed to do this.
4) I was later informed of the likely ID of my opponent, and guessing at the spelling, typed his ID into the radio and was able to contact him.
5) Even though my opponent hadn't tuned into channel 200, it turned out that they were still willing to exchange friendly comments on the recent fight.
Note how complicated this all was. Had channel 1 still been operational, I would have been able to inquire directly, and would have gotten an answer immediately, not 15 minutes later after I landed.
Get the picture??? :-)
And what if he was one of those guys that squelched CH 1. You would have asked the same questions and I would have found out who he was just the same as I did that night.
Weak arguement for enabling CH 1. Get the picture ?
Everybody is saying ... "Put more moderators on Ch 1 ... give them more teeth" ... baaaah.
Look back further in time on this BBS (search for moderator) and you will find MULTIPLE post about people whining that the moderators who did take action were "Gestapo" agents and that HTC was wacko for appointing them moderators.
"Oh ... that moderator has it out for me ... blah-blah said this and I said that and I get muted and he didn't .. HTC you couldn't pick decent moderators if your life depended on it ... I demand you give up the name of the moderator or get rid of him .... waaaaaa".
What Mathman said ...
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
I totally agree Morph. If it is so simple just to turn ch200 or not, then what was not so simple about typing ".squelch 1" if you did not want to see it? I'd just rather have it back and as Morpheus has said, have it defaulty set to "off mode".
Also if ppl get offended for being muted for 10 min, or can not handle being moderated because of something previous that they have said, they need to learn to quit typing the obscenities.
XJ ... its just like AH Night ... the whine has been moved to the other side of the fence. Yes it is simple to squelch CH1, just as simple as it is to tune to CH 200 ... HT decided that we must all tune to CH 200 (the other side of the fence) ... simple as that.
People dont get offended at getting muted, they get pissed and then the finger pointing starts, followed by whines on the BBS and probably scathing emails to HTC that we never see.
I have tuned to CH 200 since AH II Beta and I can attest that the conversations, smack talk, and communications that existed on CH 1 are alive and well on CH 200.
I would say that by the end of the July Tour, CH 200 will be raging just like CH 1 was back "in the day".
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I think it's brilliant because it's still there.
But you have to *choose* it. It's not foisted upon the newbie as part of the game.
No longer does the newbie install AH and get bombarded with "Kerry sucks". Ya have to want it. And if you do, you can't complain.
To me personally... It's made things more.... immersive.
It always took something away from the game when I could hear the "enemy" chatter about wotevah MSNBC. Now, if my own country chatters about it, it's kind of natural. I'd expect that. Even back then. But not from the "enemy".
Don't get me wrong... the community is important and all... It's just that I don't really feel like hearing whatever you think it is that's so important for you to say while I try to maintain control of an ahrplane.
I don't care about Bush when I'm up. I don't think that you should think that I should think that I care about Bush when I'm up.
To those who want automatic-in-yer-face-aol-chat: Just what is it that you think is so important about what you say?
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It's simple...Let those that want to Babble, taunt, and BS instead of fly, tune channel 200 instead of having 90% of the MA have to .squelch 1 {enter} It's brilliant! Txs HTC
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And you believe 90% of the MA squelched channel one or does your point have to rest on a ludicrous statement? I think it would be more realistic to say maybe 20% squelched ch1. Why base a point on the ridiculous?
Trivia question - Herman Hermits greeatest song was? (if you didn't burn the book you'll know).
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Originally posted by Nash
I think it's brilliant because it's still there.
But you have to *choose* it. It's not foisted upon the newbie as part of the game.
No longer does the newbie install AH and get bombarded with "Kerry sucks". Ya have to want it. And if you do, you can't complain.
To me personally... It's made things more.... immersive.
It always took something away from the game when I could hear the "enemy" chatter about wotevah MSNBC. Now, if my own country chatters about it, it's kind of natural. I'd expect that. Even back then. But not from the "enemy".
Don't get me wrong... the community is important and all... It's just that I don't really feel like hearing whatever you think it is that's so important for you to say while I try to maintain control of an ahrplane.
I don't care about Bush when I'm up. I don't think that you should think that I should think that I care about Bush when I'm up.
To those who want automatic-in-yer-face-aol-chat: Just what is it that you think is so important about what you say?
Bahhh
Channel 1 was great. It was always there when I wanted it, always ignorged when I wanted too......without squelching it. It was beautiful and enlightening, never pitiful or frightening.
Chanel one was a smoking gun and a 6 pack to go. Channel one was a Ken and and two Barby's.
Channel one was like an old flannel shirt and a pair of jeans without underwear.
Channel 200 is like kissing your sister....sure it's a lot of fun, but it's not the same.
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Originally posted by Nash
I think it's brilliant because it's still there.
But you have to *choose* it. It's not foisted upon the newbie as part of the game.
No longer does the newbie install AH and get bombarded with "Kerry sucks". Ya have to want it. And if you do, you can't complain.
To me personally... It's made things more.... immersive.
It always took something away from the game when I could hear the "enemy" chatter about wotevah MSNBC. Now, if my own country chatters about it, it's kind of natural. I'd expect that. Even back then. But not from the "enemy".
Don't get me wrong... the community is important and all... It's just that I don't really feel like hearing whatever you think it is that's so important for you to say while I try to maintain control of an ahrplane.
I don't care about Bush when I'm up. I don't think that you should think that I should think that I care about Bush when I'm up.
To those who want automatic-in-yer-face-aol-chat: Just what is it that you think is so important about what you say?
And you could'nt just squelch 1? You don't make sense hehe. You make it seem as if you are forced to watch ch1. Well you could squelch or ignore it. It is really the same as just switching to ch200 for the politics or switching away. The only thing that was good about ch1 was that it was a default thing that everyone could use, or simply squelch it. I don't see the hardships in that. A quick fix would have been to have an option if you wanted ch1 permanently squelched or not. You were never forced to watch the happenings on ch1. I agree its a vigorous task have to squelch 1 :rolleyes:. But since this is the flow of things I will just tune to ch200.:)
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Ice cream has no bones.
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:rolleyes:
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:aok
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:lol
wait no this! :rofl
touche!
Actually I see your point quite clear heh. I see why they did this ch200 thing. It was actually a good idea, just in denile ch1 is gone I guess. It will liven up a bit once ppl get in the swing of things.
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Originally posted by TDeacon
The problem with channel 200 is that most people don't use it. This doesn't mean they don't want to talk, however.
For example, the other day I had an interesting, inconclusive dogfight which lasted 15 minutes. Since neither of us died, I had no easy way to ID my opponent, even though I wanted to exchange observations after I landed. I eventually tracked the guy down by:
1) Guessing his country by looking at ownership of nearby bases.
2) Going on channel 200 and asking if anyone was on from that country.
3) When someone on channel 200 finally replied in the affirmative, I described the situation, which took some time, and requested the person go on that country's channel and inquire as to the ID of my opponent. They kindly agreed to do this.
4) I was later informed of the likely ID of my opponent, and guessing at the spelling, typed his ID into the radio and was able to contact him.
5) Even though my opponent hadn't tuned into channel 200, it turned out that they were still willing to exchange friendly comments on the recent fight.
Note how complicated this all was. Had channel 1 still been operational, I would have been able to inquire directly, and would have gotten an answer immediately, not 15 minutes later after I landed.
Get the picture??? :-)
Just goes to show you how RARE it is to get into an interesting fight anymore... :(
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Originally posted by Silat
This is more than a game. It is a chat room with planes. Or at least it should be in my opinion.
Community , community , community.
I have made some lifelong friends since I started flying back in the Jurrasic age of AW. My eldest daughter was in London and met Spiffy and his lovely wife. When I go to Seattle to visit my daughter I hook up with a handful of flight simmers that have become friends. I flew to Myrtle Beach to play golf with fellow flight simmers I had only known online. I will be hanging with NB and his son in Seattle in a month or 2. Who would have thought a game could actually produce real life acquaintences and fellow sheep shaggers?
Channel 1 in lieu of Officer Clubs was better than nothing. AW had it right by having an OC that you entered when you joined the game. There you could see all, friendlies and enemas, who were entering the game with you. You could chat and make friends which builds COMMUNITY.
I believe a strong (with teeth) and visual Moderator/Training corp would be the glue that holds the community together. This would have stopped 99% of the bad behavior on #1.
I hope that HTC sees how important community is to this type of game and does something about it.
:D
DAMNIIIT! I thought when I saw "#1" it was going to be about me, me , me.
I'm,...... hurt
Anim
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Whats the difference between 200 or 1 ??? There is no.
But we could need an OC like in AW that would be a ncie improvement.
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Originally posted by Nomde
Silat's respected? :rofl
PWND1
or as they used to say in that 'other game'...
A kill has been recorded...
Kidding aside, an active community is what hold these online games together. Without an active and robust player community to support the games, the games will die out.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Mathman
I still fail to see what channel 200 doesn't offer that channel 1 did except for one thing: a more or less captive audience.
The only other solution that I could see would be to keep channel 1 but offer either one or both of the following: a perma squelch for it or a feature that allows you to disable/enable it. Seems to me that we already have one of them in channel 200.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "default" than "captive" audience?
And that's the whole point. Nash points out in another post that n00bs are the only ones who won't know about 200. That's an important distinction. Another important distinction is inertia - which will cause a significant number of folks who do know about 200 to not take the time to tune it.
Knowing people from the enema side as well as your own side is part of what keeps this game vital. Not having the "mixer" of a common comms channel as a default will tend, over a long period of time, to create a playerbase that is only familiar with their own side. The enema will become just some icons, voiceless shapes in the sky to joust against, simply more imaginative AI if you will. The community will lose rather than gain viability.
Your two suggestions (perma squelch of a channel or a toggle) are much better alternatives to eliminating 1 as a default. Another good idea is .permasquelch . This would make it VERY easy for those who had any complaint at all with channel 1 to address their issue quickly and easily, while still retaining the mixing bowl of the common channel that allows people to make friends (and enema they love to hate ;) ) which is so much a part of what our community is.
culero
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I agree with Mathman.
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Not very long ago I was a noob, with no clue about the game or the community.
The most prominent reason that I stayed and enjoyed AH so much was/is the community.
You make bold assumptions when you state that (most) noobs are being violated by ch1 bullcrap. Maybe it's a culture thing? Where I come from sarcasm and "mock up" wordfights (in lack of better words) are highly regarded forms of humour. I never took offense at anything typed on ch1.
From the start I got a lot of entertainment and help out of the ch1 chat and nonsense.
Sure, there are many things uttered on ch1 that we would be better off without. In my 18 months of playing this game I have never felt that the bad things outweighed the good.
I want ch1 back for my own self-centered reasons. Unless I was unique in enjoying ch1 as a blue eyed and tender noob, there is a chance that other noobs are missing out on the community feeling I got from the world of ch1.
I think ch1 has been essential in forming the AH community. Since new players may take some time finding out about ch200, it isn't the same as ch1. I was completely taken by surprise by the demise of ch1. I always thought it was an important part of the AH community.
I hope it will be back.
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To me it is an EASY Choice . . .
If I want to listen to the ENEMY CHAN I tune to 200.
If someone ask how to talk to the enemy ( If he has chosen to listen ) I say tune to chan 200.
AND the ADDED BONUS is I can tune VOX to 200 and TALK to the person !
I had no problem tuning to chan 200 when asked to because an enemy wanted to talk to me.
Except for saying and Hi every once in awhile I have not missed chan 1 at all.
Probsably 75% of my CHATTING is with my SQUAD ( Virtual chat room ! ) - 20% with my Country and the last 5% on chan 1 or now 200.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>The 200 switch is one of the most brilliant things HTC has ever done. My kudos.
<<
I agree, but its not original. Throughout history, "unpleasant voice " have been removed (e.g., poisoning philosphers, puratanism, communism, and our current "political correctness.")
But everytime, its lead to change. I can't wait to see how this changes a virtual society.
Book burners have a very poor k/d ratio :D I guess because they burn more than they read.
"I DON'T LIKE THAT!!! Remove it!!"
(in a shrill, hysterical, paternalistic voice) "WE MUST ****SAVE**** the ****CHILDREN****!!!!"
Yea right - and power has nothing to do with it eh?
Was just too hard to tune out the smack talk eh? Was just to hard not to read it eh? Yea right - sell it to someone in with a double digit IQ. Anyone in triple digits knows its a power play.
Trivia question - what was the reason given for executing Socrates? (if you didn't burn the damn book you'll know).
I don't usually contribute to these discussions, but I find this utterly absurd.
The "unpleasant voice" has not been removed, it is still there. You can still listen to it if you want to. The difference is now that you have to make an active decision to listen to it (as opposed to an active decision to not listen to it). To me, the difference is responsibility. You make yourself more responsible for what you hear when you choose to listen to that channel, then you did when you just didn't bother (or didn't know how) to squelch it.
I also find the comparison to book burning absurd. If you really want to run with a book analogy, the best I can come up with is this:
It is the difference between having the book in your face when you wake up, and having to push it away if you don't want to read, compared to going over and picking up the book when you want to read it.
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I wish I said that JoeBWan17. :)
AND the ADDED BONUS is I can tune VOX to 200 and TALK to the person !
Good point jordi. :)
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I hate new shoes. You wear a pair for years, got them all comfortable, and then one day you have to get a new pair.
My wife will allow me to take my time when it comes to switching to the new shoes. New ones are uncomfortable. They hurt my feet after wearing them for a few hours.
But overtime, they start feeling better and then they become the ones I look to everyday. They are different, and yet the same. They serve the purpose they are intended to serve just as well as the old ones did, but they do it looking better. It just takes me a little time to get used to them.
I will go through the same thing for the next new pair as well. I will rant and rave about how uncomfortable they are. My wife will just grin and shake her head. And again the new ones will become the ones I look to each day.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
And you believe 90% of the MA squelched channel one or does your point have to rest on a ludicrous statement? I think it would be more realistic to say maybe 20% squelched ch1. Why base a point on the ridiculous?
Yep sure do! Ahh! I knew better than to reply to this thread.
.squelch COMMUNITY and #1 {enter}
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Thank you skuzzy, well said.
Although I believe most will miss the point.
These are the facts.
Chan 1 is gone unless HT turns it on for a Q & A session.
Chan 200 replaces it nicely.
Its on US now people. The AH community. HT tried moderators, filters you name it. It just caused more fuss, more yelling, whineing & *****in.
So now he's washed his hands of it.
Now its in OUR hands. If you want 200 to be the place everyone wants to tune.
So you can talk to your friends no matter what country. Then its now up to YOU to keep it clean.
Not HT, not moderators, youl me & the other guy. We are responsible now.
Be interesting to see how you handle it.
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A Skuzzy Poem!
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SOunds to me like a few vets are pissed because they cant here the whines from their victims after the slaughter. Some really enjoy hearing a newb whine after he repeatedly dies (myself included) However this does seem a bit sadistic, not that there is anything wrong with that. Still..seems a bit sad to bit** about not being able to taunt your opponent. Ch. 200 will come around...just needs more advertising.
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How about just asking HT to put an opening message on the clipboard: "To send messages to members of all countries, tune radio to channel 200."
That might help resolve the issue of the new folks to the game not knowing how to talk with "everyone."
I don't typically tune to channel 200....keeps my text message buffer lower....but when I have been in a good fight or wish to have someone tell me to stop running away I will tune there for brief periods of time.
Good luck and good hunting all !!!
RASCAL
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>>I hate new shoes. You wear a pair for years, got them all comfortable, and then one day you have to get a new pair. <<
I understand, Skuzzy, but this is a stinky shoe. No matter comfortable it becomes, its always gonna stink :D
... so much for shopping at Payless :)
Burn the shoes!
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I applaud and support Silat's point of view 100%.
Communication and community are the keys to a massive multi-player game such as AH. And community is largely communication, else we could as well be shooting down computer generated drones. The MMP concept was born of AirWarrior, and in AirWarrior the community was considered it's prime resource. All efforts were orientated toward furtherence of the community. Besides the radio, there were officers club rooms, conference rooms and briefing rooms where the players could assemble. These were so successful they were used for training and conferences.
AH is missing a lot of this. Now, IMO the loss of the world channel has taken us a step further away from this resource. Sure, one can still tune to 200, but it's required and not all are there (instead of "world", it's more like "coalition of the willing").
One of the things a new player has the greatest problem with is the radio. So many times I tried to help a new player but couldn't get a response. Either he didn't know how to use the radio, or was too shy (anyone remember the first time someone stuck a tape recorder in your face... most can only think of "testing 1,2,3"). Now they have to know how to tune 200 before we can even hear them.
Why give in to trouble makers? We suffer the loss of channel 1 because of them, and #200 may only embolden them. Volunteer monitors served well in AirWarrior. Sure, there will always be complaints, but the vast majority of players appreciate them. But these volunteers must be carefully selected, trained and monitored, which is a huge task for a small company like HTC. The answer is to use volunteers to manage the moderators. AirWarrior did this with great success. We even have one of those managers here in AH, so the resource is available if HTC would choose to use it. This concept also works quite well with other player services, like training. How many here were volunteer trainers in AW (another available resource)?
The answer is in the community. That is the great thing about the community concept. HTC can provide the game environment and the guidelines, and let the community manage itself. That was the AirWarrior motto. It empowers the players rather than neuter them. It makes use of a huge resource rather than discourage it. And it adds a certain community pride and ethic to the game, rather than appease the trouble makers.
grizzly
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Sure, one can still tune to 200, but it's required and not all are there (instead of "world", it's more like "coalition of the willing").
It should be a "coalition of the willing" and not forced down one's throat.
If I want to see something on TV, I tune to the channel ... all the others that I don't care to view, I don't tune to them. Same thing here.
Everybody is making a mountain out of a molehill here. Two weeks into no CH 1 and the chicken littles are all over the place professing community doom. I hardly think that's the case.
Again I say, by the end of the July Tour, you will see no difference between CH 200 and CH 1 ... with the exception of one HAVING to tune to CH 200 to participate with "the world".
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OK then, If Skuzzy is so smart then how come he's wearing the neighbor's shoes? (stolen from the movie "Parenthood")
Magoo
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>>Two weeks into no CH 1 and the chicken littles are all over the place professing community doom. I hardly think that's the case. <<
Ok perhaps you could explain a couple of things to me.
Will channel 200 be unmonitored, and people allowed to ack like fools, spouting any and every obscenity? I doubt it. So that isn't the reason the community was moved to 200. Will people be allowed to monopolize ch200 with racist, political, or philisophical diatribes? I doubt it. So that isn't the reason for moving the community.
What was the reason? I get the impression that a loud minority didn't like the banter and didn't want anyone else liking it either.
Some people on here complain like they were forced to read every single line of what came over channel one, as if they had no control over their eyeballs. Its not much different the posts on this bbs complaining about a certain subject they are somehow *forced* to read. Here's a clue to those - DON"T READ IT MORON.
And, oh gracious, if your eyes should accidently wonder over it, IGNORE IT.
So now people load a game that has a useless channel tuned on their radio. See what happens when software tries to think for stupid people? The software gets stupid.
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I think the SILENT Majority has spoken.
They do not care if CHAN 1 STAYS or GOES to CHAN 200.
Therefore it boils down to the two sets of vocal minorities of those that want CHAN 1 to stay or CHAN 1 to GO to CHAN 200.
And it looks like the Powers to be are leaning toward the vocal minority that want CHAN 1 to GO to CHAN 200.
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Etch ...
Will channel 200 be unmonitored, and people allowed to ack like fools, spouting any and every obscenity? I doubt it. So that isn't the reason the community was moved to 200. Will people be allowed to monopolize ch200 with racist, political, or philisophical diatribes? I doubt it. So that isn't the reason for moving the community.
Seems like you have all the answers so no need for me to address them like you asked.
Some people on here complain like they were forced to read every single line of what came over channel one, as if they had no control over their eyeballs. Its not much different the posts on this bbs complaining about a certain subject they are somehow *forced* to read. Here's a clue to those - DON"T READ IT MORON.
And, oh gracious, if your eyes should accidently wonder over it, IGNORE IT.
Kinda like my TV analogy. Tune to what you want to see, if thats what you want to see.
If I hate to watch the Cartoon Network, I would be real pissed at my cable provider if every time I turned on my TV, it always had the Cartoon Channel tuned as a default.
When CH 1 was alive, I could selectivly read and not read the drivel spewed out. I do the same with CH 200 now ... no big deal.
I just find it incredulous to see people stamping their feet and coming up with lame excuses to try to bring CH 1 back, when all you have to do is tune to CH 200 ... they are one in the same, with the exception that now YOU have to actively choose to tune to CH 200.
HTC has put the responsibilty of tuning to the "trash channel" on us, rather than jamming it down someone's throat. Its just that simple ... and really not that hard.
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>>HTC has put the responsibilty of tuning to the "trash channel" on us, rather than jamming it down someone's throat. Its just that simple ... and really not that hard.<<
Simpler would have been the ability to perma squelch 1 or any channel (e.g. ch6). That would have been a win win option.
The problem was not that it was on ch1, the problem was the few who didn't know how to avoid it, or the program didn't save a list of sqelched channels in the settings file.
Typical echange of someone scarred by ch1:
Newbie:this conversation is disgusting
ArTiCulatoR: type .squelch1
viola
But this option allows the banter to continue unfettered, and some folks don't want that - you know - that book burning crowd :)
And I rather think of the "trash channel" as the propaganda channel - like Tokyo Rose.
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Simpler would have been the ability to perma squelch 1 or any channel (e.g. ch6). That would have been a win win option.
Agreeded ... simple to you and me, but we have no clue as to the programming ramifications for HT.
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Etch - just a quick coupla points here:
1 - your rights and freedoms to behave as you see fit extend only as far as they don't impinge on someone else's rights and freedoms to do the same thing and vice versa.
2 - the "propaganda" channel became the sewer. Sewage is an unavoidable result of community, but most communities eventually figure out that open sewers aren't healthy and they put them out of the way somewhere where they can't do any harm.
Ch200 means that those who like it have a place to wallow and those who don't, don't have to get their shoes dirty every time they play the game.
Hand me that copy of Twain will you. It's cold in here and the fires getting low.:rolleyes:
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Well said, detch.
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Originally posted by Magoo
OK then, If Skuzzy is so smart then how come he's wearing the neighbor's shoes? (stolen from the movie "Parenthood")
Magoo
LOL! Magoo. That was good.
For those advocating squelching as a good solution. Think about this. The people most likely to squelch ch1 are probably the ones which should have been on ch1 and the ones causing a person to squelch ch1, should not have been on ch1.
Just a thought.
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Ch 1 too often was boring yappy distraction for the amusement of a relative few, comments often having nothing to do with the game or the community at large.
Aces High offers a tremendous community bonus in its bulletin board. Post there on any topic, and much easier to be selective and even search by subject. Much better than turning gameplay into a general chat room the way Ch 1 was evolving.
And still can do the chat room thing on Ch 200. So tune Ch 200. Talk all you want about anything. Only now the live audience is only those who WANT to hear such chat, not a captive majority of the rest of the players.
Dunno how HiTech could do anything more fair than what he has.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>The 200 switch is one of the most brilliant things HTC has ever done. My kudos.
<<
I agree, but its not original. Throughout history, "unpleasant voice " have been removed (e.g., poisoning philosphers, puratanism, communism, and our current "political correctness.")
But everytime, its lead to change. I can't wait to see how this changes a virtual society.
Book burners have a very poor k/d ratio :D I guess because they burn more than they read.
"I DON'T LIKE THAT!!! Remove it!!"
(in a shrill, hysterical, paternalistic voice) "WE MUST ****SAVE**** the ****CHILDREN****!!!!"
Yea right - and power has nothing to do with it eh?
Was just too hard to tune out the smack talk eh? Was just to hard not to read it eh? Yea right - sell it to someone in with a double digit IQ. Anyone in triple digits knows its a power play.
Trivia question - what was the reason given for executing Socrates? (if you didn't burn the damn book you'll know).
I think the most important point you are missing here is that it was HTC's decision. You are making it sound like there was a concerted lobby by a group of players to have it removed. There wasn't. You aren't being oppressed....its a damn online game for cripes sake. I have seen the drivel on channel 1 and believe me there aren't any great thinkers and prophets being muted.
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Originally posted by jordi
I think the SILENT Majority has spoken.
They do not care if CHAN 1 STAYS or GOES to CHAN 200.
Therefore it boils down to the two sets of vocal minorities of those that want CHAN 1 to stay or CHAN 1 to GO to CHAN 200.
And it looks like the Powers to be are leaning toward the vocal minority that want CHAN 1 to GO to CHAN 200.
Maybe we should get rid of all the comm channels next then.
So your "silent majority" can stay that way. After all, we need to
make it easier for those who have no wish to interact with others.
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>>1 - your rights and freedoms to behave as you see fit extend only as far as they don't impinge on someone else's rights and freedoms to do the same thing and vice versa. <<
Your point is taken, but I just want to make it clear I don't think having ch1 or the priviledge of posting on this board is a right. HTC is business, and I do what they say or I go :)
Pass the Twain did you say?
"You can find in a text whatever you bring, if you will stand between it and the mirror of your imagination."
Now don't burn it! :)
Ooo - I found a better one...
" I am always reading immoral books on the sly, and then selfishly trying to prevent other people from having the same wicked good time."
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>>The people most likely to squelch ch1 are probably the ones which should have been on ch1 and the ones causing a person to squelch ch1, should not have been on ch1. <<
This confused the hell out of me :) Maybe its the lead cup I'm drinking out of....
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Maybe he meant . .
The people most likely to squelch ch1 are probably the ones which should NOT have been on ch1 and the ones causing a person to squelch ch1, should not have been on ch1either
Just a guess ?
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I think Silat touches on 2 valid community based point.......
Channel 1 debate
OC environment.
But firstly
This community is not the same as ones we may remember..........
its "younger".... its less "mature" it reflects a time when "this pursuit" is accessable to many that "long ago" would not, indeed did not have access.
Indeed those of us who may like to think we are "more mature" do not set good examples.......we are often far too ready to "trade trash" on channel 1 rather than lead as any sort of example.
Hence channel 1 descends to the gutter talk of a fifth rate school play ground rather than the competitive banter of an open sports arena. It becomes the place of petty squabbles and political/racial agendas. Its influence negative and its presence there by default.
I think its movement to 200 carried a unspoken message from HTC.
HTC could not have any opinion on a radio channel (its an inert carrier of communication). They could (and it seems did) form an opinion over the content of a radio channel.
AW did benefit from the OC arena entry room. How such "meeting places" could be positively constructed in AH I do not know.
I do believe that it too could suffer the same descent as we witnessed of channel 1. If HTC even suspected this could happen do we think they would waste precious resources to supply it?
So I would say Community Police Thyself.
Positive aspects of community are built from within...... not enforced from outside.
We do not need special powers or even special moderators we just need to simply stand up for the community we want.
If we see "behaviour" we dont like we say so...........
We dont get dragged into senseless trash talk.....we simple state our opinion and carry on..............
We lead by example.............
We act as we would like everyone to act................
To quote an old A.C.C.S addage we behave like "nice" soldiers.............
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Originally posted by Grizzly
community pride
Now there is a concept.................
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Your point is taken, but I just want to make it clear I don't think having ch1 or the priviledge of posting on this board is a right. HTC is business, and I do what they say or I go :)
:aok
Pass the Twain did you say?
"You can find in a text whatever you bring, if you will stand between it and the mirror of your imagination."
Now don't burn it! :)
Ooo - I found a better one...
" I am always reading immoral books on the sly, and then selfishly trying to prevent other people from having the same wicked good time."
"A village fire-company does not often get a chance to show off, and so when it does get a chance it makes the most of it. Such citizens of that village as were of a thoughtful and judicious temperament did not insure against fire; they insured gainst the fire-company."
- Pudd'nhead Wilson :D
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Yer a good man, Tilt.
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Thoughts on "the other side's" point of view...
1) They were obviously strongly offended by something they heard on channel 1. The tone of their comments in this thread reflects this, with emotionally loaded terms such as "sewer", "dirty", etc. Also, many of them seem angry at those of us who found channel 1 useful.
2) Instead of taking advantage of available alternatives to shield themselves from what they heard on channel 1 (".squelch 1"), they instead support elimination of channel 1 not only for themselves, for for everyone else as well. This seems somewhat unbalanced, although I am admittedly biased.
3) Statements that channel 200 is the same thing, show that they are not reading carefully, or don't want to read carefully. Please note my reasonably clear example back near the beginning of this thread. With channel 1, I could have paged the guy immediately, and if no response after 1 or 2 tries, dropped it.
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Thoughts on "the other side's" point of view...
1) They were obviously strongly offended by something they heard on channel 1. The tone of their comments in this thread reflects this, with emotionally loaded terms such as "sewer", "dirty", etc. Also, many of them seem angry at those of us who found channel 1 useful.
2) Instead of taking advantage of available alternatives to shield themselves from what they heard on channel 1 (".squelch 1"), they instead support elimination of channel 1 not only for themselves, for for everyone else as well. This seems somewhat unbalanced, although I am admittedly biased.
3) Statements that channel 200 is the same thing, show that they are not reading carefully, or don't want to read carefully. Please note my reasonably clear example back near the beginning of this thread. With channel 1, I could have paged the guy immediately, and if no response after 1 or 2 tries, dropped it.
Another one who doesnt "get it."
Channel 1 was removed by HTC....not some concerted lobbying effort by any group in the game. Obviously, HTC was offended by the direction that channel 1 had taken over the last few years.
You and your buddy Tweety need to get over it and realize that you arent being persecuted and that there is no "other side" that is taking away your "rights."
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>>You and your buddy Tweety need to get over it and realize that you arent being persecuted and that there is no "other side" that is taking away your "rights."<<
And you need to read closer - the software can't do that for you.
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If people don't tune into channel 200 it's because they choose not to ... plain and simple. It would be no different if it was called channel one but defaulted off instead of on. Any noob that's been online more than 1 day can find out how to get channel 200 if he wants to. I appreciate that I don't have to squelch it every time I log on but if I wanted to read the pointless drivel on channel 200 I'm sure I could figure out how to.
As Sling (I think it was him) alluded to, it's not like we're missing quotes from the great masters.
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Channel 200 doesn't seem to be an adequate substitute, because most people don't use it.
Guess you know why channel one was turned off then.
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Thoughts on "the other side's" point of view...
1) They were obviously strongly offended by something they heard on channel 1. The tone of their comments in this thread reflects this, with emotionally loaded terms such as "sewer", "dirty", etc. Also, many of them seem angry at those of us who found channel 1 useful.
Jordi - I found at times Chan 1 usefull - but to me not enuf to over come the other side effects of the non-usefull stuff that appeared on cahn 1.
2) Instead of taking advantage of available alternatives to shield themselves from what they heard on channel 1 (".squelch 1"), they instead support elimination of channel 1 not only for themselves, for for everyone else as well. This seems somewhat unbalanced, although I am admittedly biased.
Jordi - personally I never lobbied for chan 1 to go away - but I am not bemoanings its lose now that it is gone - since it was not much of a lose to me in the first place.
3) Statements that channel 200 is the same thing, show that they are not reading carefully, or don't want to read carefully. Please note my reasonably clear example back near the beginning of this thread. With channel 1, I could have paged the guy immediately, and if no response after 1 or 2 tries, dropped it.
Jordi - Right now you can page on chan 200 - if he does not answer you he is not listening to chan 200 or is ignoring it - just like it may have happened on chan 1. Even with chan 1 ON ( I never squelched it - just ignored it ) back in the "old Days" frequently people would have to type to me on country chan orprivate or vox someone was looking for me on chan 1. Now they need to tell me that someone is looking forme on chan 200 instead.
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
ESPN8 "The Ocho" (The Movie Dodgeball)
:D
We could play dodge ball!
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Channel 1 was getting out of hand, period. I saw language on there I wouldn't use while getting flayed alive by drunken sailors. I saw attitudes and arguements that went way beyond belligerence, I saw people basically text accosted for expressing opinions (imagine that) and it was getting hostile and down right nasty at times to the point where i didn't let my son play the game. Most chat rooms, most on line games include some sort of moderation, the ones that don't inevitably and eventually fall victim to childishness and crudeness and it takes away from the game, and from the sense of community that we all take part in creating. When i shoot somebody down and they come on a public channel to tell me that my mother is a *um Sucking *hore then this has gone too far. Yes I could squelch him, or yes I can get a screen shot of it and email a complaint, but by then, the damage has been done to myself and to the community at large. New players, Kids, Preachers, and regular joes play this game, and why should they have to listen to this sort of garbage when they pay to play it. I support any action which would limit the garbage. I don't like having to tune to a channel to talk to the rest of the community though and I have a sneaking suspiscion that chan 200 is goign to follow in the same footsteps. I hate to say it but we need a moderator, an objective moderator that isn't going to boot a guy that ho's em down either. As much money as we pour into this game and the company HTC, we deserve some sort of prevention without having to scarifice the communication of the community at large. I enjoyed an open channel, honestly, and sometimes I even enjoyed the occasional taunts, but good grief it got out of hand and it will again no matter what channel becomes the norm. The only cure for this that seems realistic to me is somebody down there in TX is going to have to moderate it, or its going to end up right back in the same boat it sank in to begin with.
And while I'm at it, cross country private messaging is a spy's wonderland, yuck. (oh god I used the S word, there goes this thread eh?) :rolleyes:
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3) Statements that channel 200 is the same thing, show that they are not reading carefully, or don't want to read carefully. Please note my reasonably clear example back near the beginning of this thread. With channel 1, I could have paged the guy immediately, and if no response after 1 or 2 tries, dropped it.
I guess you are guilty of not reading carefully yourself. I responed to this notion.
Again ...
This would be no different if that guy had CH 1 squelched. You came over CH 200 asking who it was ... I put out a call on Rook Country Channel and found him for you. He did indeed have CH 200 not tuned.
I have also done this numerous times when CH 1 was active. Again ... no difference between CH 200 and CH 1.
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Since I am in an argumentative mood this morning, I will respond to sling322's comments, rather than ignoring them. :-)
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another one who doesnt "get it."
Channel 1 was removed by HTC....not some concerted lobbying effort by any group in the game. Obviously, HTC was offended by the direction that channel 1 had taken over the last few years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it was removed by HTC. However HTC can be influenced by logical argument - hence this thread. If you feel that this discussion is useless, why are you wasting your time with it?
quote:
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You and your buddy Tweety need to get over it and realize that you arent being persecuted and that there is no "other side" that is taking away your "rights."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, you need to read things more carefully. Please read the post again.... Good... Now you will observe that nothing in the post says I think I am being persecuted or that I have "rights" in Aces High. (Actually I consider it an honor and priviledge to be allowed to play this fine game for only $15. per month, given that I started out in AW in 1991 paying $5. per hour on Genie. I used to spend hundreds of dollars a month, and I was a student back then with limited income.)
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Oh good, another person to argue with:
quote:
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I guess you are guilty of not reading carefully yourself. I responed to this notion.
Again ...
This would be no different if that guy had CH 1 squelched. You came over CH 200 asking who it was ... I put out a call on Rook Country Channel and found him for you. He did indeed have CH 200 not tuned.
I have also done this numerous times when CH 1 was active. Again ... no difference between CH 200 and CH 1.Slapshot:
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1) Thanks for helping me out, if you were the one who IDed Virage for me.
2) I agree that the difficulty would have been equivalent had channel 1 been there, but squelched by Virage. However, in such a scenario, I would have given up trying to contact him after a try or 2. Reason for this is that I consider squelching channel 1 a more definate indication of desire for privacy than failing to activate channel 200.
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2) I agree that the difficulty would have been equivalent had channel 1 been there, but squelched by Virage. However, in such a scenario, I would have given up trying to contact him after a try or 2. Reason for this is that I consider squelching channel 1 a more definate indication of desire for privacy than failing to activate channel 200.
What you are assuming is that Virage didn't know about CH 200 and wasn't tuned ... where on the other hand, he might have known about it, and didn't tune for all the same reason that he might have had CH 1 squelched.
If you can just throw the switch in your head that CH 200 is CH 1 you will save yourself all this angst.
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I once met a P-47 in a P-51D. He was quite a lot higher and I couldn't climb up to him. So I turned around and tried to grab altitude. He didn't follow and kill me (easily could have done so) but hovered at 30.000 feet or so. When he saw me retreat, instead of stalling out a few 1000 feet under him, he taunted me on channel 1 for about 30 minutes. He was continously telling what a dweeb I was that didn't want to fight and that I was following him etc. etc. ceaselessly.
After a long time he had to come down to land and I finally got the chance to close in. At that point he was telling everyone that I had at least 5000 feet on him (we were about co-alt then). He did a high speed dive towards a crowded friendly base but I got strikes on him, but the P-47 saved his butt. I got away too.
The must fun thing of this was that I completely ignored him. If I had shot him down I would have him to really piss him off, but alas, it was not to be.
But maybe I'll get used to the new shoes :D
Love the game, not much time to play though.
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Since I am in an argumentative mood this morning, I will respond to sling322's comments, rather than ignoring them. :-)
So you are denying the fact that the tone of your post indicates that you believe there was a concerted lobbying effort to have channel 1 removed? Just because folks are coming out after the fact and agreeing with HTC's decision to shut down channel 1 doesn't mean that there were a flood of complaints about it. I dont recall seeing a lot of complaints about channel 1 other than the odd idiot whining about being muted by the moderator for what he deemed to be something not worthy of a mute job.
I could care less whether or not channel 1 is turned on or off. I enjoyed the friendly banter and saying hi to folks when I would log on or off, but it has become quite a different attitude on that channel over the last few years and if HTC deems it appropriatte to turn it off, maybe it will teach the community a lesson. I doubt it but you never know....
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I ignored channel 1 most of the time but every now and then some one would put forth a word or 2 that caught my eye.
Didn't care for the word or 2, or what was passing for converstaion much of the time on channel 1. I don't care about Bush, or Kerr, or what Al Gore created, or arguments about the war. I'm here to fly. I want to see that stuff I go look it up.
Channel 200 is very rarely tuned here. I'm very happy without it. It is not tuned on purpose where I'm concerned!
Also started noticing some very young voice's on from time to time. Odd times at that. Like 2 am my time.
I saluted another player today because in my book he, or perhaps it was a she, deserved it. Didn't need channel 1 to do it, or channel 200 either.
This burn the books thing doesn't seem to fit this situation IMHO. You wanna talk trash? Then go to 200 and talk trash, if that's what you wanna do. We all play we all pay. So why do I have to see all this grade school stuff if I would rather not? Right now if you want it you got it. Right now if I don't want it I don't have to turn it off every time I log on. AND I believe once you tune to 200 it stays there and doesn't need to be retuned all the time. AND NOW YOU can TALK to each other on VOX as well.
You wanna talk/type to everyone? Sorry maybe I don't wanna hear/see it, maybe they don't wanna hear/see it. You wanna talk/type to me? Private me, if I wanna talk/type to you I'll responed provided i'm not engaged at the time.
A final point I have NOT seen mentioned is the text buffer load could create a possible, minor perhaps, bandwidth slow down! Seem to recall HT expressing something along those lines but not real sure. You gettin allot of disco's, stutters, freezes, and CTD's? Hmm you got 200 tuned? Maybe untune it for a session or 2 and see if it improves your FPS?
I confess I like the lower amount of clutter in the text buffer, less time needed to read it. I actually pay a little more attention to whats in the buffer then I used too. Doesn't mean I don't miss talkin with some, but if or when I want to I can chose to.
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If Channel 200 "hasn't taken off" - there is likely a reason for that. The very fact channel 200 "hasn't taken off" is a daily sweeping vote of support for hitech's decision. Case closed.
PS - "1-ALL" needs to be removed from the channel list - confuses the newbies
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>>maybe it will teach the community a lesson.<<
Yea, thats what they need to do:rolleyes:
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>>This burn the books thing doesn't seem to fit this situation IMHO. You wanna talk trash? Then go to 200 and talk trash, if that's what you wanna do. We all play we all pay. So why do I have to see all this grade school stuff if I would rather not?<<
That is the whole point - you NEVER *had* to see it. The problem is ch1 could not be permanantly disabled or perma squelched. Thats not the fault of the people using it saying things you don't care for. Thats the fault of the program.
Also on the burning books and rights stuff, I don't think anyone has posted that open communication or "fredom of speech"was a "right" when suscribing to HTC products. But certain constitutional rights also happen to be human ideals. I mean thats where Thomas Jefferson got his ideas - from universal human ideals :)
Unfettered communication seems to work well in *most* cases, and draconian methods tend to breed contempt in *most* cases. Maybe because the mind seems to be heterotrophic (thats a ch1 word for ya :))Of course there are exceptions, and I think the crux of this debate is whether or not this is an exception. I don't honestly think anyone who believes ch1 should be removed is a bonafide book burner :) You have to take some things tongue in cheek in a debate.
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For those advocating squelching as a good solution. Think about this. The people most likely to squelch ch1 are probably the ones which should have been on ch1 and the ones causing a person to squelch ch1, should not have been on ch1.
Exactly!! (if a little obtuse --like Bilbo at his birthday party) Skuzzy's point is the key to the issue.
The "good guys" are the ones who liked Ch1 for the community, the ability to chat about a dogfight, and the occasional taunt. (OK, and the ability to hear the dweebs whine.) The "bad guys" cursed, shouted, dragged for rants with inflammatory political or religious statements, and generally acted with the class of soccer hooligans. The "bad guys" don't care, so they don't squelch. The "good guys" either sit in the stands shaking their heads, ignore the riot's damage, or they leave the stadium by squelching 1.
We have to acknowledge that both these crowds were part of channel 1. Now, taking away the default CH1 radio setting isn't censorship, it's zoning -- a distinction that should be easy for anyone with any knowledge of history. [You can't compare that inconvenience with trying to read Solzenhitzen or the Bible in the old USSR.] So, HTC was faced with the challenge of trying to preserve the community for the good guys, knowing that the libertarian approach would give the hooligans license to tear the stadium apart. Historically HTC tried several approaches, none of which were entirely successful or entirely satisfactory. There is no perfect solution, so don''t argue like there is one -- HTC is balancing between two competing priorities, open community exchange vs. waste containment. Both are valid community needs.
Some of these posts have been whines about change, like "trying on new shoes." Some have inflamed an attempted zoning change into assaults on the foundations of liberty. Lets (try) to be reasonable here -- channel 1 had problems, and HTC is TRYING SOMETHING to deal with those problems. Relax, guys -- if it works, it works. If it doesn't we'll try something else.
That said, I'd go for the idea of letting the community police itself. If anybody gets squelched by 50 people, they cant enter channel 1 text for an hour. Simple, reasonable, and probably effective. Meets the needs of the good guys, remains accessable for the newbies, teaches the hooligans some self control. Seems like a winner all around......
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Not ong ago I posted an opinion on Chan. one that AH2 was going to make it a lot harder to defend a base. Someone replied, "How so?". So I listed a number of factors, in successive comments. Then another player cursed at me. When I asked what his problem was, he said he was sick of seeing my comments on chan. one.
I often have no idea what is being said on the radio because I don't read it. It seems to me that some players who complain about the chatter on chan. one are a bit too intolerent. Like a player I knew who couldn't sleep at night knowing that players were porking his country's bases. Of course there's the whining and gutter talk, but to get rid of that HTC would have to eliminate all channels... and vox.
But why did HTC chop chan. one? I suppose he wanted to hide some of the crap from the innocent and new customers. After all, they don't want to lose accounts because of the in game hostility. But adding a perma-squelch, removing "all" from the menu, or even promoting the use of the squelch command would interfere with Skuzzy's and HiTech's communications with players. Although it's blue, it does use chan. one.
It was a reasonable thing to do, and not a big deal I guess.
grizzly
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Originally posted by Simaril
I'd go for the idea of letting the community police itself. If anybody gets squelched by 50 people, they cant enter channel 1 text for an hour. Simple, reasonable, and probably effective. Meets the needs of the good guys, remains accessable for the newbies, teaches the hooligans some self control. Seems like a winner all around......
With stuff like the Rook's Joint Operations and humungous squads happening in AH, I don't think a cumulative squelch setup would be wise =o/
grizzly
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I'm glad I dont have to /.squelch 1 the first thing when I log in anymore. I have a 9 year old daughter that reads the chat buffer faster than I do :lol Many of the things that were said and that went on on ch1 were inappropriate for her to see. Not sure why, but she loves to watch me play flight sims, I can't count the hours she has spent next to me while I played AH and before that AirWarrior.
I am one that almost canceled my account because of the BS on 1 and no way to permanently get rid of it. I really dont care what others have to say about ch1, to many times the content on 1 was inappropriate for children.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>maybe it will teach the community a lesson.<<
Yea, thats what they need to do:rolleyes:
Yeah it is. If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem. But as long as the "community" allows more and more crap on channel 1 the more loose folks get with it and it leads to HTC making a decision to cancel the use of it.
If you can't see that, I can't help you.
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quote:
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Yeah it is. If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem. But as long as the "community" allows more and more crap on channel 1 the more loose folks get with it and it leads to HTC making a decision to cancel the use of it.
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I like your implied suggestion Sling322. If I understand it correctly, you are advocating the existence of channel 1, with community policing.
Now all we have to do is think of a mechanism, or combination of mechanisms, to implement this. I suggest the following problem decomposition:
1) A posted set of standards for conduct on channel 1. (I know some of this is "obvious", but posted standards would help for the less obvious behaviors). Call this "topic A".
2) A means of community enforcement. CAll this "topic B".
BTW, I'm not saying HTC is interested in this input, but it can't hurt; maybe people would have good ideas which he might use in future.
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The community is strong and with channel 1 gone now, it seems theres less bickering. Thank You HTC and the Staff at Aces High.
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Crap now i miss my old shoes!!!
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On "topic B":
The solution should be "layered", in that there would be an ordered set of mechanisms. The "lowest" layer would address some of the channel 1 problem, the "next lowest" layer would address some of what remained after being filtered by the "lowest" layer, etc.
Example:
1) Layer 0: Software mechanism which removes certain words, as on this BB. Example: "Hitech is a *******".
2) Layer 1: Software mechanism to support designated human channel 1 monitors. One idea:
a) Dot command, with player ID as input parameter, to capture contents of text monitor, possibly just contents from that player ID. This would be stored in a temporary evidence buffer. Radio message automatically sent to miscreant as initial warning. Example: "TDeacon, your recent comments include violation of code of conduct at . If this continues, you will be banned from channel 1 for 48 hours".
b) Assume that miscreant continues to violate the standard. A second dot command would add the miscreant's subsequent text buffer inputs to the evidence buffer, send a ban notification message to the miscreant, send a record of this action including text to HTC, and automatically implement the ban. Miscreant could still play and use other channels, but is off channel 1 for 48 hours.
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>> If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem.<<
Well the ones squelching ch1 sure weren't policing it. A lot of people tried to shame those misusing the channel, but shaming an idiot is almost impossible.
I have another fix. Open Ch1, but your icon lights up on the radar when you type on it :) - less scrolling and less childish behavior. Hmmm- that could be fun...
Dolt: $%#^& running dweeb
WThing: I see you Dolt - in :)
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Originally posted by fffreeze220
Whats the difference between 200 or 1 ??? There is no.
But we could need an OC like in AW that would be a ncie improvement.
Not that it's at all the same,... but the new AHTH site has a officers club similar to AW. Made as a VB download proggie it will do much the same and more. ;-) It's just not an actual game interface. It's also not done ;-)
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Gamer\Desktop\Image1.jpg)
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Not that it's at all the same,... but the new AHTH site has a officers club similar to AW. Made as a VB download proggie it will do much the same and more. ;-) It's just not an actual game interface. It's also not done ;-)
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Gamer\Desktop\Image1.jpg)
oops didn't post,.. damn owell
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Originally posted by Silat
I believe a strong (with teeth) and visual Moderator/Training corp would be the glue that holds the community together. This would have stopped 99% of the bad behavior on #1.
:D
Agreed--200 is heading the same way and unless something is done about it HT will eventually remove everything but Squad channel and .s
Select few have the ability to affect what others enjoy.
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Originally posted by Silat
AW had it right by having an OC that you entered when you joined the game. There you could see all, friendlies and enemas, who were entering the game with you. You could chat and make friends which builds COMMUNITY.
I remember the Officer's Club. :) Yea, I never realized how cool it was until we lost it.
Initially, I was opposed to cancelling chanel 1. But, that was before I realized that the community would just find another channel & go about their business. Now, I say, if anyone wants to participate on the arena channel (200), let 'em tune to it. :)
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It is the difference between having the book in your face when you wake up, and having to push it away if you don't want to read, compared to going over and picking up the book when you want to read it.
Nicely said;).
The only diffrent i see it is that you have to tune to channel 200 insted of getting it on channel 1 when you log on, and have to squelch it if you dont want to listen to all players in the arena on channel 1.
So bottom line for some in this post is actualy a issue to just turn to another channel(200) to talk to all players :confused:
Im probely stupit, but i see no big probelm in this, if you want to talk to the hole communety in that arena, just switch to channel 200.
No wounder HTC rearly speaks on the BBS no more. I think they have more issue to take care off insted of some who dont have the strange to type in a channel to tune with the one they they prefere to talk with.
I understand the communety that wil have communication with all in this game and I agrre with it, but just tune to channel 200 and keep have fun;)
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Originally posted by TDeacon
quote:
I like your implied suggestion Sling322. If I understand it correctly, you are advocating the existence of channel 1, with community policing.
Now all we have to do is think of a mechanism, or combination of mechanisms, to implement this. I suggest the following problem decomposition:
1) A posted set of standards for conduct on channel 1. (I know some of this is "obvious", but posted standards would help for the less obvious behaviors). Call this "topic A".
2) A means of community enforcement. CAll this "topic B".
BTW, I'm not saying HTC is interested in this input, but it can't hurt; maybe people would have good ideas which he might use in future.
Problem is....we had that already and it didnt work.
When someone would get out of line and a moderator was in the arena and saw the remark he would issue a warning. Then the person warned would go off on a tirade about what someone else was doing that was worse in his opinion. After repeated taunts to the moderator, the offender would be muted and then a long rant about how unfair the moderators were would be launched on the message board here. Look at some past threads about moderators and see what I mean.
I personally didnt have a problem with channel 1. I could take it or leave it, but there were times when some idiot would get on there and make it his soapbox to spew all kinds of stupid political garbage that doesnt belong there. Its a communication channel for an online flight sim....not a personal loudspeaker to use however you please. Its not an AOL chatroom.
HTC evidently saw the degradation and what channel 1 had become and decided that it wasnt an option for a default channel that every new player who didnt know how to squelch it was exposed to. All it takes is for the new guy to see the crap on there and assume that was acceptable. Then the cycle grows and you end up where we are now. Unfortunately, channel 200 will probably end up the same content-wise....unless the community can police itself and set some kind of standards that everyone follows. Its not that hard really but it will take effort from everyone and it will require everyone to tone back their ego a bit. You know when you type something that is over the line. If someone asks you to quit it....then quit it. It has a lot to do with common courtesy and respect, but then again in an anonymous setting like an online game those two traits are all too often MIA.
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CH200, as predicted, has started with the inappropriate sexual references, political/religious ranting, and other junk that got us here in the first place. So what can we do to preserve even this degree of inter-country communication?
Software screens are made to be beaten, and the AH community is clearly creative -- so in the long run that approach seems futile, IMHO. What's more, it puts programming duties on Scuzzy's plate when his attention is appropriately focused on the primary game code anyway. Moderators set loose with general guidelines and judgement calls are recipe for whining --and since the whines land on HTC's lap, that approach is probably counterproductive too. (Plus, its been tried already.)
In my experience establishing self regulating systems, smoothest operation and greatest success rely heavily on advance knowledge of goals and expectations. If we were to give generous but explicit "Rules for conduct on CH1" the focus wouldnt be on the "moderator who's out to get me" but on the dweeb who knew the rules but spouted off anyway.
Try something like this:
1. No explicit use of the following profane terms: < insert examples here>. Derivations must have at least two changes from the actual word (I.e. F**k)
2. No racial, ethnic, or sexual slurs (including slurs regarding sexual orientation)
3. No reference to current politics or religious controversy. This is not intended to censor, but allow those using AH as a release from real life to enjoy themselves. Free discussion of these issues is encouraged, but in appropriate forums -- like BBS and chat rooms devoted to those issues.
Moderators don't interpret or use judgement, they take a screenshot and send it to the head moderator and HTC -- so those complaining can appeal formally to the head moderator. He/She would look at the rules, look and the screenshot, and make the call. And, as I do with my children, extended whining after the appeal extends the sanction. Moderators abusing their authority would also suffer consequences.
To those predictable protestors who would call this censorship, let me ask this:
How would you feel if your next door neighbor used his freedom to sell out to a nuclear processing plant? You'd immediately call the zoning board -- because the essential features of ANY community are self protection and self regulation.
So, do you think this could work?
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Originally posted by Simaril
Moderators set loose with general guidelines and judgement calls are recipe for whining --and since the whines land on HTC's lap, that approach is probably counterproductive too. (Plus, its been tried already.)
There will always be whining, no matter what is done. But we don't see all that goes on. The complaints probably amount to a very small percentage. The great majority of players will comply to a warning, but we don't see that. And the lead moderator can handle the complaints if HTC wishes.
Originally posted by Simaril
If we were to give generous but explicit "Rules for conduct on CH1" the focus wouldnt be on the "moderator who's out to get me" but on the dweeb who knew the rules but spouted off anyway.
Moderators don't interpret or use judgement, they take a screenshot and send it to the head moderator and HTC -- so those complaining can appeal formally to the head moderator.
There's something to be said for the above. When there is disruption going on in the arena, a moderator must make a judgement call to warn/mute the player. Making judgement calls is imperitive for a moderator.
A person can disrupt the game without cursing or racial slurs. A simple argument with civil language that goes on for a long time can be disruptive and earn a warning. And judgement is required to determine whether there is disruption. A moderator must be given guidelines and closely monitored, but left to his/her own devices on the job.
It is nearly impossible to list all the infractions, so it's often best to generalize. When you draw a clear line, many players will hug that line as close as they dare. There is no excuse for player infractions, because it's easy not to approach the line in the grey area of appropriate conduct. Players know when they are behaving obnoxiously, and the moderator warnings are fair notice that they have crossed this line.
grizzly
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Granted. There probably does need to be a "Stop being a jerk you idiot" clause, and judgement will come into that. But a guideline could also make that explicit -- maybe "Arguments that persist longer than 2 text buffers should be taken to private channel. In that circumstance the moderator will first send a warning, but if disregarded the parties involved will be sanctioned."
This way, judgement calls have some clear cut foundation besides "I'm tired of you," and the subjective element gets buffered by the warning.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Granted. There probably does need to be a "Stop being a jerk you idiot" clause, and judgement will come into that. But a guideline could also make that explicit -- maybe "Arguments that persist longer than 2 text buffers should be taken to private channel. In that circumstance the moderator will first send a warning, but if disregarded the parties involved will be sanctioned."
This way, judgement calls have some clear cut foundation besides "I'm tired of you," and the subjective element gets buffered by the warning.
Yes, there must be guidelines and these must be set by the company. Companies have their own policies and operating style. From what I've seen, HTC prefers not to tie down the company by detailing all the words and infractions. They consider the moderator warning fair notice to the player. I think this is a good way to handle it because it places the onus on the player rather than bogging a small company down with minutia.
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Simaril: Sounds great in theory, sucks in reality.
Rules of conduct realy do not need to be clearly stated. Almost everyone here already knows what exceptible social behavior is. Defineing specifics only lets the players who know what acceptible behavior is, but wish to push it as far as they can, do so and then claim," but your rules didn't say i couldn't do that". The rules said you can't use profanity, typing "F***" is not using profanity, it is just a typo. Human judgemnt is what works, writing down specifics is what dosn't.
2nd Making the rules alone leads to problems, ok we have these rules now what happens when some one does cross the line. Going to have to post what happens ahead of time.
3rd Now since we have stated these rules, if we do not enforce each and every case, we open our selves up to a liablitly.
Also, our goal is not to act after the fact, i.e. take a screen shot, send to HTC. That meens that until we can see the screen shot the players behavior continues to be disruptive. Our goal is to inderdict the behavior as soon as feesible.
Our monitor system has worked fairly well overall. (we still need more players as monitors) but the items that has worked is the animimaty of the monitors.
It realy has prevented the arguments online with monitors. Cant argue with someone you don't know. Can't claim they have it out for you, when you don't even know who "THEY" are.
Also , no one knows when a monitor is online or not.
From the monitor side is also works fairly well, They can just handle things, with out all the side effects, and stigma that can would go along with it, if they were known. They also do not have to hear complaints from other players who might be carring a grudge against someone.
The 2nd item that has worked fairly well is the simple mute penalty as apposed to ejection.
HItech
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Originally posted by sling322
Yeah it is. If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem. But as long as the "community" allows more and more crap on channel 1 the more loose folks get with it and it leads to HTC making a decision to cancel the use of it.
If you can't see that, I can't help you.
What the community needs to police themselves is solidarity. When someone complains about a player's conduct, he's often shouted down with vulgarity or accusations of whining. There are few who will support him. If they did, those who are prone to skirt the rules or act obnoxiously may be less inclined to spout off. By saying nothing, players are adding to the problem instead of helping. So if you care about the game, let yourselves be heard when needed.
grizzly
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How about 1 rule.
In agreeing to suscribe to HTC, you also agree all decisions by its staff and online monitors regarding muting or removing a player are final and not subject to appeal.
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Originally posted by Simaril
CH200, as predicted, has started with the inappropriate sexual references, political/religious ranting, and other junk that got us here in the first place. So what can we do to preserve even this degree of inter-country communication?
I'm sorry. But, I don't think we should have to do a damn thing. :D
HTC ought to include a disclaimer regarding anything that is said on channel 200, if they're really SO worried about it, and allow these people to have their fun. Anyone that tunes to channel 200 cannot hold HTC liable for anything that is said.
I can't believe that this is such a big deal. :lol
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Shaming idiots isn't hard, IMO. ;-)
anim (who finds it rather easy)
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Thanks for the reply, Skuzzy. i didnt even realize that moderators were around -- talk about a transparent system!!
Your points about liability are well taken.
With (obviously) finite corporate resources it would frankly be a waste to increase the workload on HTC.
In that case, i have to agree that the best "intervention" should just be to get good enough moderator coverage, and leave it at that. IMHO, this issue seems about settled.