Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jasta on June 24, 2004, 07:59:52 PM
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Anyone?
Im especially looking for input on the + or - thingy.
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Sounds like a blow to realism to me :-(
I'll give it a go on the weekend, to see what it means.
In my opinion, a pilot should have to judge for themselves if you are closing or losing an enemy. This new 'feature' provides information that should not be freely given.
I had hoped that the laser rangefinder had died a death. This appears to be a move back in that direction. Not impressed.
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Considering its a "game", not everything can be as realistic as you want.
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How can you tell if you are getting closer to a pixel?
It doesn't change in size or any of the things that we take for granted here in reality.
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If i remember right, we had this +/- icon thing when it was in early beta.
NOT that bad but I still like the old style of icons.
For you realizzm buffs... You know you can turn your icons off if you wish... Right?
I give you a week flying like that before you turn them back on.;)
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I like the old range icons much better. Now it's just more clutter, + or -.
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What I dont get, whats the diff now? was anyone really reading 564, 563, 562 etc. or just seeing if the number was getting smaller. + - might as well be range with 200 yard margins
But i don't care - I'm not gonna nitpick everything they do :D
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The +/- will probably cut down on some of the whining which is probably good.
I did thoroughly enjoy the previous icons though. You really had to put effort in to reading an opponents E-state, and you could hide your E with devastating effect.
a lotta folks who were more icon focused rather than planeform focused in AH1 really struggled because both their judgement of E and their gunnery tanked without the rangecounter.
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I dunno, toyed with it a bit tonight, found it more distracting than anything.
Who knew these planes had computational Heads Up Displays?
I'd like a way to toggle it off...and the mouse pointer for that matter! :)
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Couldn't agree more Hornet - on a purely selfish note, it took me a couple of weeks to get the hang of the new style counters in beta and I found the fights more immersing. I actually believe it helped me to fly better in the end because my SA was forced to improve.
I do not believe that making something easier necessarily makes it better, and as far as this change goes (imho as relative noob - self assesed) it's just more clutter on the screen.
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i love the + - thing.
liek somone else said in this post how can you see if you are gaining on a pixel (or 2 for that matter).
with my 17" plain old viewsonic i can see what you all can see. best i can run is 1024X768 (moniter doesnt suppotr higher without diving to 55-60hz refresh)
especially with the skins now available, there is almost no plane recognition possible for me unless inside 200 yards, then with that green p51D skin i still cant tell if it's a B or D.
with the icon system limited like before this patch the game is almost an elite rich person only game. only people with the money to get an awsome system can play at the maximun settings. anyone playing with a signifantly lesser system "can" run the game but will suffer in abilities exponentially.
not to mention older people playing with not soo good eyesight. i know some people with minium systems, who can't afford to upgrade trying to play, and almost giving up because they have to set the graphic detail so low.
i think the new +/- icon thing is a concession for lesser systems, so they can at least have a feel for what is going on in the air, if some of the realism demanders want to isolate a part of the community so the game is the way "they" want it.. so be it, but i dont think that is in HiTechcreations business plan.
on a side note i have noticed significant frame rate increases with this latest patch! WTFG HiTech and crew, you done really good IMHO!!!!
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Originally posted by Karnak
How can you tell if you are getting closer to a pixel?
It doesn't change in size or any of the things that we take for granted here in reality.
How can you tell you are getting closer to a plane at distance? you can't until u get some relative motion after focusing on it for a bit.
My preference is no + or -, for what its worth.
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His point is you can see clearly a lot farther than a computer monitor can clearly render at normal resolutions. Hence why we have the icons in the first place.
J_A_B
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I prefer, NO + or -
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Just clutter to me. My screen is crapola, my processor stinks, I am barely running 30FPS at medium alts. I like the way it was before.
This to me is the same as AH1 just a different way to display it. If your going to have this then go back to AH1 style, or better yet just take it back to where it was in release 2.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Just clutter to me. My screen is crapola, my processor stinks, I am barely running 30FPS at medium alts. I like the way it was before.
This to me is the same as AH1 just a different way to display it. If your going to have this then go back to AH1 style, or better yet just take it back to where it was in release 2.
RHIN0
It is not the same as AH1 in one important way, you don't know how fast you are closing. You only know if you are closing or not, but not at what rate. This can make all the difference in the world. Still takes more work to judge relative E states than in AH1.
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+ - is helpful for tracking down runner :o) Curval
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6 of one, half-dozen of the other to me on the + - thing. I don't care either way about it. If it helps some, great.
Cheers,
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In my opinion, the + and - thing are useful in some cases, but i think do take away from realism.
They became more of a frustration to me tonight because of some mustang flying around. He would do a typical runstang motion but the thing was that on every pass he would hold his fire. He didnt even try to get an angle on me. Just passed harmlessly under making sure I couldnt get a decent shot. Run away, pass by harmlessly... repeat process until I get bored and leave. If he was trying to annoy me, he did a good job...
But in relation to the icon thing, my heart just kept sinking when i saw that huge plus sign, because i knew i would wait another 10 minutes before getting a shot! :(
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Originally posted by Jasta
Anyone?
Im especially looking for input on the + or - thingy.
Dunno, my guess is its for people that dont know how to count forward and backwards lol
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I have no issue with it either way.
I dont even process the plus or minus, I just watch the direction of the counter. So it's a litle delayed, gotta be alot less burdon on the server not incrementing every second, times the number of people in the area. etc.
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Sounds like an improvement... but they should just go bck to the old icon style for the sake of playability.
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the + or - thing is pretty pointless and does nothing but add clutter.
Its easier to just watch the ac to see if it gets larger or smaller anyway.
I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease...
The spray and prayers now have the hose on/off indicator they were whining about.
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I'm starting to feel greased... never was a spray and pray guy though... just have old eyes.
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If your going to put a + or a -, why not just go back to the old range icons?
Same concept, less clutter.
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Originally posted by ZZ3
If your going to put a + or a -, why not just go back to the old range icons?
Same concept, less clutter.
Well that would just make to much sense now wouldnt it? :p
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+ - thing is awesome... very needed for someone flying at 1600x1200 res. For those that scoff at realism... LOL... dang man... real life is in a bit higher res than what we can get on a monitor. For reference, I asked some rl pilots whom I know also fly sims, and the comments were that it is WAYYYYYYYY easier to fly, land, see other planes... in RL. (Now, at the same time they say it is a lot HARDER in other ways, but not visually)
Anyway... I think the + - thing is great. More realistic in my mind. I have never in my life seen a plane in RL where I couldn't tell what freaking direction it was flying. Happens all the time in AH2. Why does everyone think harder = more real. The biggest difference in AH to RL is that we don't end up puking in our cockpicks in AH after all those freaky manuevers.
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don'T like the +/- thing :(.
What happened to the fading Icons btw?
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+ -
sucks... :confused:
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Prefer not having the +/- icons
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Why are there so few posts on "I like the + & - addition"
If we all liked the same things it would really be a boring world. :p
RHIN0
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I could really care less about the +/- thing. I was fine with the original AH2 icons. 800....600...400FIRE!!!
600...800... bah find something abit slower to shoot.
SKurj
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Don't like it at all
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I like the +/- infact i wonder if I need range #'s if I have a +/-
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That aint gonna happen tilt...
I liked the icons before the + / -. I like them still being under the plane. But the + / - is clearly a bone thrown to those who complained with out really taking the time to adjust.
I dont see how it adds anything. It just seems like clutter to me.
IMHO a better solution would be fade in icons etc...
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Don't like the +/-, just more distractions. If you need help seeing, just use the ZOOM feature to get a better look. I really liked the previous AH2 icons...
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+ - is useful when you see a plane reversing - you can tell if he is turning towards you or away. Was useful in the CT last night where we were having some terrific 109 vs. P51/P38 dogfights with lots of vertical manoeuvers. You could also tell right away with a sideways glance when that distant 109 was heading in to the fight or going home.
The whole point of moving away from the AHI icon system is that you are now forced to do a little range estimation on your own when deciding on lead, when to open fire, etc. That's why people take such pains to make range estimating gunsights to help give a rough idea of when the target is ~250 yards out front. The addition of the +/- symbol was suggested and discussed at length in this bulletin board, and HTC has actually implemented what was a popular suggestion. It is a compromise between having your ranges spoon-fed to you, and the less informative icons present in the first versions of AHII which caused consternation to some. PLUS - having NME icons under their plane makes low 6 sneakups more possible, and nap-of-the-earth escapades more possible.
Fighter pilots spent much of their ground time studying range and angle-off charts of enemy aircraft during WWII. Only modern radar based gunsights give ranging values, and only through the HUD.
We can complain that our display systems are too crude to emulate real life, but we also have a luxury which the WWII RL pilots didn't have: that of being able to engage in an infinite number of live-fire exercises, and thus hone our estimation skills with the systems we do have.
I'm running a low end system with a 17" screen, but I would prefer NO range icons at all - personally, for me or my opponents. I say the new system is a good all-round compromise and say 'THANKS' to HTC for actually responding to our suggestions.
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I don't get it ... the "clutter" thing.
I use icons to determine who is my most potential threat or who and what order I am going to attack. This is all determined at a range where digesting this information is not a problem.
When the fight is on, I don't even see this stuff. I use the 13th TAS Dot 'O Death for a gunsight and I don't even see that when I am engaged. I am too busy concentrating on my target trying to get the best guns solution.
Yes, while engaged, I will look around (SA) to see if I am still clear, but never long enough to actually interpret whether anyone is closing or going away (even with the old AH I icon system). You just don't have the time or luxury to look in one direction for that long of a time and still try to kill the guy in front of you.
I got jumped last nigth by at least 8 guys in my Spit V for at least 2 minutes before they got me. All I did was keep looking around ... see a number(s) ... make a decision. Never did I look to see if it was + or - and if it this had happened in AH I, I would never have had the time to watch numbers count up or down either.
I believe that the + and - are a great addition to tell us the type of closure or separation that is taking place when the size of the aircraft on a computer monitor can't really tell you that.
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Originally posted by Hornet
The +/- will probably cut down on some of the whining which is probably good.
I did thoroughly enjoy the previous icons though. You really had to put effort in to reading an opponents E-state, and you could hide your E with devastating effect.
a lotta folks who were more icon focused rather than planeform focused in AH1 really struggled because both their judgement of E and their gunnery tanked without the rangecounter.
ditto! Hornet
also I have no problem seeing the plane increase or decrease in size when under 2k distance.
I too have wondered about the dot shading that seems to have changed in dots ( planes) out of icon range. Use to see them as a light colored pixel growing darker as they get closer. Now seems to be just a black dot until in icon range. Buffs are still easier to notice though beyond icon range as soon as they get with in that what is 10k threshold?
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Just more junk on the screen for me. May as well just turn range counters back on like they were. More information with the same (or in the case of the old AH1 way less) clutter is always better.
But nobody said this was a democracy, it ain't a deal breaker. (however the new stutters/pauses are - had to log off after new patch last night. Surely will be fixed though)
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I think the +/- icons are an improvement over what we have. At least I can easily tell if I'm gaining on someone or vice versa.
That said, I like the AH1 icon much better.
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I think the +/- icons are an improvement over what we have. At least I can easily tell if I'm gaining on someone or vice versa.
You could tell easily before....you just had to look longer and pay attention to the increment of decrement. Took away from SA a bit but isnt that the way it should be? Even with great eyes it would take a second or two to analyze the con, identify it, and decide if it was a threat.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by sickbird
That said, I like the AH1 icon much better.
Amen, the original Icons in the AH1 Model were far superior to the + - rubbish. Why did we change that to begin with? There is somethine to be said with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" here I think.