Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on June 24, 2004, 11:15:49 PM
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[SIZE=24]F9/11 opens Nation-wide[/SIZE]
(http://www.ippnw.ch/images/moore.jpg)
*maybe I should sleep outside the theatre in a sleeping bag to ensure getting a good seat? what do ya think?:lol
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Im gonna go see this. No one around here cares about politics so I'll probably be 1 of the 5 people in the theatre. :lol
Lets see what this movie has to offer. :aok
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
Im gonna go see this. No one around here cares about politics so I'll probably be 1 of the 5 people in the theatre. :lol
Lets see what this movie has to offer. :aok
Same here :lol
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you are really pathetic.. hope u and your role model have a nce time making the next bunch of lies.
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Although it's impossible to do a proper accounting of it... I wonder how many points, IF any, this will be worth wrt to the election.
I'll say 3. (which is huge)
.03 coming directly from people who see this and either switch their vote (unlikely) or (more likely) get motivated to vote.
2.97 from a sort of dogpile effect.
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I'm pretty sure the Terms of Service Agreement precludes the posting of obscene material here.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
you are really pathetic.. hope u and your role model have a nce time making the next bunch of lies.
well bodhi, i have heard opinions about this movie that span both ends of the spectrum.
i can't state an opinion until i have viewed F9/11
i have plans with friends to see it this coming teusday evening, i will give you guys my account of the movie.
just on the controversy alone, it's going to be a movie worth seeing, if only to give us a position from which we can discuss the film
i am really looking forward to seeing it!
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Why is it that someone like moore who makes films like bowling for colombine and this one feel its great to make money off of american tradgedy, I am all for free speech and I love living in a nation that allows people to question the leadership but to me he takes it too far. In bowling for colombine he stresses the point that violence in america can be linked to the fact that we are constantly bombarded with it in the media. He questions a news crew on why they are filming a shooting and not filiming the issue of smog in the city. Well Mr. Moore, why did you do a film about gun violence in america and the killing of students and teachers and not a film on Smog in america..... its because you like many others in your shoes know what makes money.
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Well, I might not go, but looking forward to see Spider-Man 2 movie thought.
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Originally posted by Rafe35
Well, I might not go, but looking forward to see Spider-Man 2 movie thought.
Now yer talkin'. :aok
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Originally posted by RTStuka
its because you like many others in your shoes know what makes money.
Exactly.
BTW Rafe, I am also looking forward to see'ing spider man 2. :D
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Im going to see Dodgeball :aok
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RTStuka I've already seen it. Pretty funny, in a horribly stupid kind of way. :D
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because Mr. Moore is a socialist and beleives in redistribution of wealth I am going to download his movie w/o paying for it and watch it w/ a grain of salt :aok
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What about the movie call World of Tomorrow, y'know P-40 into the future? :D :eek:
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Originally posted by RTStuka
In bowling for colombine he stresses the point that violence in america can be linked to the fact that we are constantly bombarded with it in the media.
i've got a copy of Bowling for Columbine on DVD and can tell you that he doesn't say anything about a link between violence being linked to media violence. Moore does address the topic of violence in media and says Canada, Germany etc all over the world have the same amount of media violence as the US, we all watch the big name hollywood movies. Lots of similarities in western culture, except in the number of handgun murders. It's a good question.
number of handgun murders per year:
Germany 365
Canada 165
Australia 115
Japan 39
USA approx. 12,000
(canada & aussie numbers 'guessed' but close)
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lol XtrmeJ, well is at least horribly stupid enought to pay to watch.
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Yeah... WOOHOO a spiderman sequel. Will he swing from a building this time or maybe a moving TRAIN?!!!
XtrmeJ... It's merely bad timing (and I feel bad for them) that the only other competition they can point to atm is a comic book character. Spiderman will own the box office, fer sure... but it is still spiderman.
Go see yer movie. Evaluate it on your own. If it sucks, come here and say so. Because, you will be in a rare position of criticizing it after actually (shocker) SEEING it for yourself.
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Yah very true Nash. Whatever, swinging from one building to another can be a very unfair comparison. :lol
RTStuka. Yah go see it. I would'nt necessarily recommend it. But it is pretty funny. Go see it and tell me how ya liked it.
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im only going to see spiderman 2 cuz of kirsten dunst :eek: :aok :D
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
i've got a copy of Bowling for Columbine on DVD and can tell you that he doesn't say anything about a link between violence being linked to media violence. Moore does address the topic of violence in media and says Canada, Germany etc all over the world have the same amount of media violence as the US, we all watch the big name hollywood movies. Lots of similarities in western culture, except in the number of handgun murders. It's a good question.
number of handgun murders per year:
Germany 365
Canada 165
Australia 115
Japan 39
USA approx. 12,000
(canada & aussie numbers 'guessed' but close)
yea so this is were he sucks....because other nations dont have a problem w/ media violence and entertainment glamorization it cant possibly be a contributing factor.....
hell canada's our neighbor and they have NO problems what so ever so therefore big bad evil America is to blame......its not the people that pull the triggers....its the guns that just go off by themselves!
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Originally posted by moose
im only going to see spiderman 2 cuz of kirsten dunst :eek: :aok :D
crazy beautiful.....and spiderman (wet T shirt scene)
GGGRRRROOOOWWWWLLLLLL
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The bottom line for me is just that this guy makes a movie which infact tells us the same things we already knew, there was no new and amazing secrets revealed. But in doing this he drags up issues that some people were just starting to cope with and deal with now they have to live it all over again. I agree gunslinger, if this man is so self-righteous and a socialist why is he not allowing people to veiw his new film for free, or at least only making enough money to pay for the creation of it. To me he is just another individual on the extreme side, and that is what is the biggest problem with this country and the world, people are unable to meet in the middle, Hard line left and right wingers wont take a second to open their eyes and belive in other views.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
y therefore big bad evil America is to blame
that thought has never entered my head before...to me, those statistics are just that, stats. Doesn't imply anything at all. Doesn't mean you're good or bad or anything else and no blame. To me, given the data, it's an interesting question.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
that thought has never entered my head before...to me, those statistics are just that, stats. Doesn't imply anything at all. Doesn't mean you're good or bad or anything else and no blame. To me, given the data, it's an interesting question.
but do you think that:
1. Guns kill people
or
2. People kill people
the kids at columbine could have just as easily used big knives and gasoline.....
Bowling for columbine was about ANITI GUN and that's it. He came to his own conclusion and didnt really prove any of them.
Just my thaughts at least
EDIT:
Larry the cable guy said it best: "if you can blame guns for killings than I can blame my pencile for misspelled words"
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
that thought has never entered my head before...to me, those statistics are just that, stats. Doesn't imply anything at all. Doesn't mean you're good or bad or anything else and no blame. To me, given the data, it's an interesting question.
good man.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Hard line left and right wingers wont take a second to open their eyes and belive in other views.
Well said!
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Nicely said RTstuka. Sad, but true.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
that thought has never entered my head before...to me, those statistics are just that, stats. Doesn't imply anything at all. Doesn't mean you're good or bad or anything else and no blame. To me, given the data, it's an interesting question.
I dont see how attacking the NRA is interesting. The NRA does not condone violence nor violent use of guns yet this is one of Moores targets. In fact the NRA teaches more gun safety classes than any other organization in the US.
Sorry but Moore comes to his own conclusions without proving one of them.....truth of the matter to ME is this:
Poverty creates crime
the media reports it
hollywood glamorizes it
(in this case) well to do white kids emulated it
Has nothing do with the NRA or Gun laws or Gun control. and those are the things he went after. Kinda wonder what motivates him to do this?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I Kinda wonder what motivates him to do this?
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421522024/0.jpg)
:D
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Well put XtremeJ.....
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It's debatable I'm sure. :p
! RTstuka.
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Yeah he might make these movies so people will disucss him on AH BB :rofl :rofl :rofl
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LOL! Best place to find reviews on anything!
AH BB #1!!!
:lol
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421522024/0.jpg)
:D
[sarcasm]
NO he does not do it for money....he's a socialist. It's obivious he specifically wants this kind of discussion on the AH BB LOL
[/sarcasm]
yup I think you nailed it. I think he'd *****a nd moan just like the rest of the rich boys if he got taxed at 70%
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I wonder what plane Mr. Moore would fly in AH.....
Hmmmmmm Im thinking mabye B17s, but instead of bombs he would drop leaflets telling you how bad the game was and how HTC is big brother controling you and not allowing free thought, then as your sitting on the runway debating the ethics in supporting a game that is only out to promote violence and how mabye vulching is the reason for so much bashing on the BB he comes over the airfield and wipes you out with his .50 cal guns l:D
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
[sarcasm]
NO he does not do it for money....he's a socialist. It's obivious he specifically wants this kind of discussion on the AH BB LOL
[/sarcasm]
yup I think you nailed it. I think he'd *****a nd moan just like the rest of the rich boys if he got taxed at 70%
:lol
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I dont see how attacking the NRA is interesting. The NRA does not condone violence nor violent use of guns yet this is one of Moores targets. In fact the NRA teaches more gun safety classes than any other organization in the US.
you are right...moore did rag on the NRA, but there was allot more in the movie for me than just that.
i agree with you that the kids at Columbine HS could have used knives or lots of other weapons....imagine if they had had some home made pipe bombs? It would likely have been worse. what i got was moore questioning the reasoning behind these two teenage boys: why they did it, more than what they used to accomplish it. to me another good question.
IMO changing gun laws is going to be inneffective against reducing crime...criminals will still get illegal firearms regardless of any laws that change.
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XtrmeJ you strike me as a cool kid.
Don't seriously listen to us fat f*cks...
If anything, laugh.... and figure it out for yourself. Be suspicious of anything that feels easy.
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Originally posted by Nash
XtrmeJ you strike me as a cool kid.
Don't seriously listen to us fat f*cks...
If anything, laugh.... and figure it out for yourself. Be suspicious of anything that feels easy.
Nash, likewise, I've always thought you were a cool guy. :)
BTW thats actually some great advice.
that may just be sig material. :aok
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They did have bombs, they just didn't get to set them off.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
you are right...moore did rag on the NRA, but there was allot more in the movie for me than just that.
i agree with you that the kids at Columbine HS could have used knives or lots of other weapons....imagine if they had had some home made pipe bombs? It would likely have been worse. what i got was moore questioning the reasoning behind these two teenage boys: why they did it, more than what they used to accomplish it. to me another good question.
IMO changing gun laws is going to be inneffective against reducing crime...criminals will still get illegal firearms regardless of any laws that change.
YUP. But this whole movie talked about why they did it and why Canada doesnt have any problems, why the NRA is STILL concerned w/ gun rights, and how evil lockheed martin is. Buy a CD from a bank and pass a backround check to get a free rifle then you ask K-mart to stop selling ammo and you have the whole movie in a nutshell.
It didnt say that these two kids MAY have been messed up by the: media, bullies, drugs, hollywood, or lack of parental supervision.
Sorry Moore did not prove ANY conclusions in this movie......yet it was lauded as great. First time I saw it I thought it was a "mocumentary".
Virgil I think they did in fact set off some bombs but to no real effect.
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(http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/MichaelMooreStupid.jpg)
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As with most other movies, ill wait until it's released on DVD.
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Pay good money at the boxoffice to get "tooled" by Moore?
No thanks.
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the more popular the movie the sooner moores justified downfall will be.
It will come from two fronts...
(1) the well known and dependable jealosy and pettyness of the left...
(2) popularity will raise questions about the truthfullness of his films that will be a house of cards... once he has blood on him he will be pecked to death...
If his collapse hapens before the election it will sour even more people on the left and reenforce the the popular notion that the left allways resorts to lies to get their point across.
Give me an hour of interview footage with moore and I could make a "documentary" on him that proved everything from him being a bedwetting pedophile to him addmitting that he was an agent for the taliban.
That is why he doesn't give interviews... he knows what can be done with em if the interviewer or editor is a big enough scumbag..
lazs
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
because Mr. Moore is a socialist and beleives in redistribution of wealth I am going to download his movie w/o paying for it and watch it w/ a grain of salt :aok
If Moore believes in redistribution of wealth so much, he should start off by donating ALL his to the DNC to help promote his distorted views.
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For those of you who are going to go see the film tonight, give us a review of it. I plan on waiting for the DVD version like I said before, but I'm still curious about what this guy is trying to say.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Wow! So many ppl that have seen BFC and no one got the point?
Moore's main point was the guns themselves wasn't the problem ... Canada had lost of guns too, but not the crime rate. Nor was the problem glorification of violence in movies etc. The rest of the world watches the same movies. His main point was that the media's focus on violent crime, blowing it out of proportion, is making Americans paranoid and afraid. If you're told all the time that danger is all around, sooner or later you will start to believe it ... and act accordingly.
I thought that point was valid ... although his attack on Heston was unnecessary and stupid IMHO. The NRA is not the cause of violent crime in the USA.
I didn't see BFC, because it would profit the scumbag that filmed it. I wouldn't put a dime in that sumbeech's (southern expression of disdain) pocket if I thought it would give him a hernia.
I can't see where the media focus on crime supposedly making Americans paranoid and afraid is the driving point behind gun violence in general and the actions of Harris and Kleibold in particular. So I think Moore had no point at all.
Look, the driving force behind violence is people. Paranoia and fear isn't what's making the violence happen. Its anger, jealosy, greed, and a host of other human ills. People aren't shooting other people (at least in the sense of committing a crime) out of fear and paranoia. We don't have a big problem with scared people shooting other people, we have a problem with criminals shooting people for some sort of personal gain or satisfaction. Like the satisfaction of killing someone they hate, or the gain of material goods or getting away with a crime.
With regards to Harris and Kleibold, the paranoia involved may have been paranoid schizophrenia. These were two sick and deluded individuals. The media didn't make them paranoid and scared, and cause them to go on a killing spree.
I agree, the attack on the NRA and legal gun owners in general, and Heston in particular was pointless and stupid. But then it serves to show the true character of the idiot that did it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
That is why he doesn't give interviews...
He was interviewed by Bill O'Reilly a year or so ago, and he wound up interviewing Bill instead. It was interesting to see the no-spin guy on the defensive..in all it was a good interview.
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I dunno where that comes from. Moore gives tons of interviews. Nice theory though.
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"If someone did this [9/11] to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, D.C., and the planes' destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!" -- Michael Moore On 9/12/2001
"There is no terrorist threat in this country. This is a lie. This is the biggest lie we've been told." -- Michael Moore, October 2003
"In terms of marketing (Fahrenheit 9/11), Front Row is getting a boost from organisations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to ask if there is anything they can do to support the film. And although Chacra says he and his company feel strongly that Fahrenheit is not anti-American, but anti-Bush, 'we can’t go against these organisations as they could strongly boycott the film in Lebanon and Syria.'"
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."
"I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe -- just maybe -- God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end."
"Unfortunately, Bush and Co. are not through yet. This invasion and conquest will encourage them to do it again elsewhere. The real purpose of this war was to say to the rest of the world, "Don't Mess with Texas - If You Got What We Want, We're Coming to Get It!"
"I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a 'deserter.' What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants"
"(Americans) are possibly the dumbest people on the planet ... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pr*cks. We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don’t know about anything that’s happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.”
"DO YOU FEEL like you live in a nation of idiots? I used to console myself about the state of stupidity in this country by repeating this to myself: Even if there are two hundred million stone-cold idiots in this country, that leaves at least eighty million who will get what I'm saying..." -- P. 85 of "Stupid White Men"
"(T)he dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American". -- Michael Moore At London’s Roundhouse Theater
"On his North American tour in support of Dude, Where’s My Country, Moore substituted Canadians for Britons, telling audiences that the “dumbest Canadian” in attendance could surely outwit 'the smartest American.'" -- Moorewatch
"Should such an ignorant people (Americans) lead the world?" -- Michael Moore in an open letter to the people of Germany
"There's a gullible side to the American people. They can be easily misled. Religion is the best device used to mislead them."
"I like America to some extent." -- Michael Moore's response after being asked "You do not seem to like the U.S., do you?"
"Moore wrote he'd once been "forced" to listen to my comments on a TV chat show, The McLaughlin Group. I had whined "on and on about the sorry state of American education," Moore said, and wound up by bellowing: "These kids don't even know what The Iliad and The Odyssey are!" Moore's interest was piqued, so the next day he said he called me. "Fred," he quoted himself as saying, "tell me what The Iliad and The Odyssey are." I started "hemming and hawing," Moore wrote. And then I said, according to Moore: "Well, they're . . . uh . . . you know . . . uh . . . okay, fine, you got me--I don't know what they're about. Happy now?" He'd smoked me out as a fraud, or maybe worse. The only problem is none of this is true. It never happened. Moore is a liar. He made it up. It's a fabrication on two levels. One, I've never met Moore or even talked to him on the phone. And, two, I read both The Iliad and The Odyssey in my first year at the University of Virginia. Just for the record, I'd learned what they were about even before college." -- Fred Barnes
"You know in my town the small businesses that everyone wanted to protect? They were the people that supported all the right-wing groups. They were the Republicans in the town, they were in the Kiwanas, the Chamber of Commerce - people that kept the town all white. The small hardware salesman, the small clothing store salespersons, Jesse the Barber who signed his name three different times on three different petitions to recall me from the school board. F*ck all these small businesses - f*ck 'em all! Bring in the chains. The small businesspeople are the rednecks that run the town and suppress the people. F*ck 'em all. That's how I feel."
"White people scare the crap out of me. … I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord … never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person bury my movie, and I've never heard a black person say, 'We're going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here - have a nice day!'"
"It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody." -- From an article by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown describing a Michael Moore show in London
"Since September 11, the Bush Administration has used that tragic event as a justification to rip up our constitution and our civil liberties. And I honestly believe that [with] one or two September 11s martial law will be declared in our country and we're inching towards a police state."
"The Patriot Act is the first step. "Mein Kampf" -- "Mein Kampf" was written long before Hitler came to power. And if the people of Germany had done something early on to stop these early signs, when the right-wing, when the extremists such as yourself (Bob Novak), decide that this is the way to go, if people don't speak up against this, you end up with something like they had in Germany. I don't want to get to that point."
"The motivation for war is simple. The U.S. government started the war with Iraq in order to make it easy for U.S. corporations to do business in other countries. They intend to use cheap labor in those countries, which will make Americans rich."
"I think (Bin Laden is under the protective watch of) the United States, I think our government knows where he is and I don't think we're going to be capturing him or killing him any time soon." -- Michael Moore in an interview with Bob Costas
Yep, it's a cut and paste from a website.
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Which one?
Can I see it?
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Originally posted by Nash
Which one?
Can I see it?
Sure, but you'll hate it. I look at maybe 25 blogs on a regular basis, some from each side, this came from one, and it was the most relevant to this particular subject on any of the blogs. I found some similar stuff from Michael Hitchens (I think I spelled that right) on a couple of liberal blogs. Though Hitchens is a liberal at least to some degree, the liberal blogs were all over him for calling Moore on what he says and does.
http://www.rightwingnews.com
Have a good laugh, I know you'll hate it and disagree with it. Like I said, he put together a collection of Moore's quotes, so I checked some of his sources and they were valid, so I used it.
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lol... I don't even have to look. Barely had to ask in the first place. What I thought, I got.
Nice way to expand your mind and broaden your perspective. Whatever, I aint gonna lecture you.
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Originally posted by Nash
lol... I don't even have to look. Barely had to ask in the first place. What I thought, I got.
Nice way to expand your mind and broaden your perspective. Whatever, I aint gonna lecture you.
Like I said, it is one of about 25 blogs I look at, some from each side. The thread concerns Michael Moore. That blog had a collection of his quotes. The sources agreed with what was posted, so I used it.
As I expected, you didn't even look, and yet you claim to have "expanded your mind and broadened your perspective". I've come to expect nothing less from you. We've had this discussion before. You're right, you ain't gonna lecture me. You ain't qualified.:rolleyes:
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"I don't have to look"..... but I did.
Whatever floats yer boat there, Virgil. :aok
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The NRA does not condone violence nor violent use of guns yet this is one of Moores targets.
What do you think is ment by, "Out of my cold, dead, hand.".
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Originally posted by Thrawn
What do you think is ment by, "Out of my cold, dead, hand.".
It means the Constitution of the United States clearly states that the rights of the citizens are granted by God, not by the government, and in accordance with the motto "Give me liberty or give me death", we will surrender our firearms and our Second Amendment rights when we die, and not before. We'll not submit passively, timidly, meekly, nor willingly, to tyranny.
Simple and clear enough?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It means the Constitution of the United States clearly states that the rights of the citizens are granted by God
So god is in charge of America then? What is the role of the goverment and president if god is your boss?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
So god is in charge of America then? What is the role of the goverment and president if god is your boss?
Did I say that? No, I did not. I said that the Constitution states that certain rights are not subject to the governments will to remove or restrict them. The founding fathers and the authors of the documents on which the system of government is based believed that God grants men their rights, and the government does not. Therefore, the government is the servant of the people, not the other way around.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Why is it that someone like moore who makes films like bowling for colombine and this one feel its great to make money off of american tradgedy
That covers a broad spectrum, from the civil war to vietnam. In some instances it helps you look deeper into what happened. In this case, imo, it's like watching a film about it that Bill O'rielly or Rush Limbaugh put together, it is very bias. So I am not going to waste my money on it.
What really bothers me is someone posted a quote from GW saying OBL is not important anymore, I hope this is bogus.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Then you could have pirated it. Never hurts to know what the "opposition" thinks.
I respectfully disagree. I'd like to recommend Barry Glassner's excellent book "Culture Of Fear: Why Americans are afraid of the wrong things". While the book is more general in its scope than just the relationship between crime and paranoia, it is still relevant and a very good read.
I try to avoid stealing. Besides, I really just have no desire to see any more than I've already seen of it.
I really have no idea where people get the idea that Americans live in fear. I just don't see it. There are those, especially including the media, who try to profit from creating panic and fear, but in general, no one I know falls for it. There is some genuine and legitimate concern for many things, but fear is not really a factor. Despite the mass media and other efforts to the contrary.
Interesting points though, and worthy of discussion. I might try to find some excerpts from that book and see if any of it interests me.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Did I say that? No, I did not. I said that the Constitution states that certain rights are not subject to the governments will to remove or restrict them. The founding fathers and the authors of the documents on which the system of government is based believed that God grants men their rights, and the government does not. Therefore, the government is the servant of the people, not the other way around.
Aha, good to see that Bush is in control. Was worried there for a while.
Oh wait....Bush is in control ??? :eek:
hehe :)
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Moore is another example of niche marketing -- he found his niche, and is getting wealthy and (in)famous with it as long as people pay to see his films.
The irony is to see his films to find firsthand what he is talking about is to support him whether you agree with him or not.
I bit for Columbine and that's enough Moore for me. If he has any points, he corrupts them with cheap attacks and sensationalism.