Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ghi on June 25, 2004, 02:32:14 AM
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I'm more base killer than fighter. I don't like to lose the war, and if possible to win.
That's how i get the fun from this game for 15$/month. Soo, fuel can't be porked under 75%?? !!
How to slow down (300+) rooks sundays evenings??!!
Soo, ww2's planes only, not WW2's tactics??!!
Ploiesti's rafineries Romania, (oil supplier for germans), were bombed by Usaf (1943 -1945).
Fuel should be possible to go down, pork to 0%, disabled, like amo, troops.
If i'm porker today, i'm outnumbered, if u have more players defend your fuel.
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Originally posted by ghi
I'm more base killer than fighter. I don't like to lose the war, and if possible to win.
That's how i get the fun from this game for 15$/month. Soo, fuel can't be porked under 75%?? !!
How to slow down (300+) rooks sundays evenings??!!
Soo, ww2's planes only, not WW2's tactics??!!
Ploiesti's rafineries Romania, (oil supplier for germans), were bombed by Usaf (1943 -1945).
Fuel should be possible to go down, pork to 0%, disabled, like amo, troops.
If i'm porker today, i'm outnumbered, if u have more players defend your fuel.
I hereby nominate the above as quite possibly the most disturbing post in the history of AH general discussion.
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Hmm, the only defense I can think of against fuel porkers would be a good shot in a field gun or an LTAR or two. You can climb to 15k and suicide the fuel offline too :)
I play for various reasons; denying others a chance to fly is not one of them.
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There has been countless whines about fuel porking, many thought that it hurt the game. They logged on, only to find all front line bases porked, they logged off.
You have to adjust to maybe hitting FH's instead. On small fields 1 buff form. can easily take out all 3 FH's in 1 run.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I hereby nominate the above as quite possibly the most disturbing post in the history of AH general discussion.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/523_1088149691_zxzzza.gif)
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How to slow down (300+) rooks sundays evenings??!!
aim for the hangars maybe?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I hereby nominate the above as quite possibly the most disturbing post in the history of AH general discussion.
Remember all those whine posts by guys complaining about being told how to play the game? Posts like these: - If I bring ordinance to a field, I am gonna drop it. I don't care about "your" war. The little napoleans are the absolute worst aspect of the GAME.
- When someone starts telling what to do in the game, I just ask for his credit card number. If he wants to control what I do, he can pay my account. Otherwise, its my money, its my choice.
Well guess what: It cuts both ways. I'm as disappointed as you are to see that someone actually prefers simply to pork, rather than fight and/or make a more realistic combat scenario.
But there's nothing you or I or anyone can do about it. The community made its bed, and now it has to lie in it. The "It's my $14.95" mantra applies whether you are a fighter or a porker. We're all just going to have to learn to accept it.
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You want to stop the hoard moving forward just hit all surrounding Barracks, done. :rolleyes:
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Porking bases is (or was) an important strategy, taking out the enemy's ability to up with fuel WAS a key part of the game. Sorry guys, but yes porking is (or was) a real strategy and I have to agree with the original post, taking away the ability to pork a base's fuel down right sucks. How realistic is having unlimited fuel? What the hell is the point of having bombers or attack sorties now, or hitting the fuel depots? Whining about the fuel being porked instead of players catering to your dogfighting obsession is pathetic. If i go through the trouble of carrying ords to a base, I kinda enjoyed knowing that I had actually done some damage to the enemy and their ability to reup. Please get rid of the stupid 75% fuel thing, or give us unlimited ammo as well, would be just as realistic. And don't be jerks, my god somebody says they don't like something and you guys eat them alive. Like your opinions, post em, but don't trash something you obviously can't grasp. Funny thing is some of you guys are the same one touting realism in other posts. How realistic is unlimited undamagable fuel resources or fighter hangars that reup moments after they go down? How realistic is it to expect people that pay the same 15 bucks you do to want to cater to your dogfighting when perhaps they enjoy bombing strategic targets? Your telling me that all I have to enjoy hitting with my ords now is either gv's or troops at bases to be a real pilot like you guys?
GHI, your right man, unlimited fuel sucks.
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Bettele I accept his statement, not only did I accept it, I nominated it for an award... :D
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HeHE..You think any non bishop agree with this post? lol
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Porking fuel stops people from being ably to FLY. This is a FLIGHT simulation. The original concept was to fly and fight.
The fuel multiplier has been raised to 2X, if they allow fuel to be porked to 25%, in some cases there will be no flying at all.
Want to stop people from taking bases, pork troops.
Want to stop them from tearing up your bases, pork ordinance.
Want to stop them from bombing, pork their bomber hangars.
Want to stop them from swarming GV's like cockroaches, pork their GV hangar.
There are still plenty of ways to stop a horde without porking fuel.
Learn new tricks.
Besides, how realistic is it that fuel is stored in the same place on every similar base, obvious and unprotected from attack from the air, and easy to hit?
Nevermind how realistic it is to have three suicidal idiots pork fuel and auger at every base for ten sectors, especially the same three suicidal idiots. Who never fight, they just dive in, pork the fuel, and auger.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Porking fuel stops people from being ably to FLY.
Uh that is exactly the point of porking the fuel...
:rolleyes:
Those "idiots" you refer to just might be Pigs On The Wing Special Ops... :aok
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Porking fuel stops people from being ably to FLY.
...as does shooting them with .50 cal...
...just saying :aok
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Besides, how realistic is it that fuel is stored in the same place on every similar base, obvious and unprotected from attack from the air, and easy to hit?
What you mean like the Ammo bunkers, Troops, Fighter Hangars, and everything else on bases? :rofl
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twitchy is you are so against flying then why not just go cancel your account?
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Now there's a relevant and informed opinion...
:rolleyes:
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I have logged off on occasions in AH1 because all frontline bases fuel being porked.
I'm so happy i'll never have to experience this in AHII.:)
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Originally posted by twitchy
What you mean like the Ammo bunkers, Troops, Fighter Hangars, and everything else on bases? :rofl
Yeah, as a matter of fact, that is EXACTLY what I mean.
I understand that creating each individual base from scratch with at least some differences in layout creates a lot more work.
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Originally posted by twitchy
Uh that is exactly the point of porking the fuel...
:rolleyes:
Those "idiots" you refer to just might be Pigs On The Wing Special Ops... :aok
Want to stop them from flying? Then shoot them down. That is, after all, the object of the game.
If your idea of "special ops" is to suicide pork and auger fuel to stop people from flying, then I guess the title fits pretty well.
And those of us who like to fly are real happy they took the option of porking fuel to 25% by suicide away.
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I have something to add to this conversation...
Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!!Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!!Ha-HAA!! Ha-HAA!!
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
HA!
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Infact its very easy to take out the FH's on the new small and medium fields.
75% lower limit was added at a time that allowed it to balance the new fuel model and a chosen FBM of 2.00. Whilst also substantially removing fuel as a strat critical resource.
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If I were HiTech, I'd just quit reading these boards. People didn't like night and complained about it. Once night was turned off, people started complaining about not having it.
Same goes here. People have complained about fuel porking. HT turned down the amount of porking (not that much when you consider the increased fuel consumption) and now people are complaining about that.
Pick a subject to complain about and if HT changes it, somebody else will complain about the change.
Sheesh! :rolleyes:
Glove
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Bishops - we've been banged. The very fact that we can be banged suggest that:
a) it's not impossible to take bases. Knights and Rooks have proven that it's possible.
b) new game, new tactics. Time to learn new tricks.
I for one won't criticize the base/strat porking model until I've played a lot longer.
BUT I will say this - Fuel shortages were a real aspect of warfare. Making them irrelevant is gamey, but as I'm sure in the posts to follow someone will point out that AH2 is a game.
Ghi 's criticism is valid. HTC is going to need to keep tweaking the game - if we don't raise issues like this we'll all be unhappy. His was a good post. Some of the mental excrement that followed his post is typical of the horde mentality in the M.A.
:rolleyes:
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muhahahahaha!!!! :rofl
Geez, ghi, twitchy just learn to play the "new" setup my man. That's all it takes.
Anyway, all kidding aside, think of it this way... Having 75% fuel on AH2 with the new engine management modelling with a burn rate of 2.0 has probably the same effect as having 25% fuel on AH1. True, having 75% fuel may allow you to fly longer, distance-wise and duration wise at reduced throttle than compared to 25% fuel on AH1, but there is a severe "penalty" for that on AH2... the guy cannot climb as fast as he did on AH1, at least it will make him work more to get the desired effect. Easy target... Shoot him down. Is this explanation clear enough?:D
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Originally posted by jodgi
You have to adjust to maybe hitting FH's instead. On small fields 1 buff form. can easily take out all 3 FH's in 1 run.
...........Accomplishing just the opposite of the desired effect. :D
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Originally posted by FDutchmn
muhahahahaha!!!! :rofl
Geez, ghi, twitchy just learn to play the "new" setup my man. That's all it takes.
Anyway, all kidding aside, think of it this way... Having 75% fuel on AH2 with the new engine management modelling with a burn rate of 2.0 has probably the same effect as having 25% fuel on AH1. True, having 75% fuel may allow you to fly longer, distance-wise and duration wise at reduced throttle than compared to 25% fuel on AH1, but there is a severe "penalty" for that on AH2... the guy cannot climb as fast as he did on AH1, at least it will make him work more to get the desired effect. Easy target... Shoot him down. Is this explanation clear enough?:D
what he said
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The enemy is still flying, even after I destroyed all their buildings! What should I do?!
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Originally posted by Engine
The enemy is still flying, even after I destroyed all their buildings! What should I do?!
Shoot 'em down. That's why they put those guns on yer plane.
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Never cared for fuel porkers - the important targets, as already mentioned, are the ordnance and troops. But then I also never cared for this whole "winning the war" business and the behavior it encourages.
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The supreme excellence is to subdue the armies of your enemies without even having to fight them.
– Sun Tzu
Taking out barracks but leaving fuel alone essentially takes out a large group of nmy players to doing nothing more than sight see.
If fuel is destroyed, all those players will create a new horde somewhere else.
Let them waste their time by flying around one of your bases hoping to get a vulch. and attack them somewhere else.
This new system also fixes the frustration of capturing a base only to wait 2 hours to use it if it is an nmy zone.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Shoot 'em down. That's why they put those guns on yer plane.
But.... but... doesn't that mean I have to spend some time learning how to win in a fight? That's too hard, all I wanna do is compress my loaded P38 into enemy fuel!
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Shoot 'em down. That's why they put those guns on yer plane.
sig material right there...:D
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Also note that if in real warfare fuel were damaged at a base, that does not mean that all the planes there have to take less fuel, in fact, they would likely keep their normal or mission required fuel load and put up a few less planes, as there is no point in sending out more planes with less fuel so that none of them have the fuel they need. The 75% fuel pork gives the porkers some benefit for their efforts while still keeping the realistic option of putting planes up that have enough fuel to do something. If you want a better system, then it would be that when you pork fuel, then that would limit the number of planes able to take off from that base based on the amount of fuel left available, and the amount that each plane takes.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts :
_____________________________ ____________________
Shoot 'em down. That's why they put those guns on yer plane.
_____________________________ ____________________
Originally posted by vorticon
sig material right there...:D
Well, honestly, bein' a southern redneck, I actually said out loud:
"Hell, son, shoot 'em down! That's what they put them guns on yer plane for boy".
But I figured I'd make it a little neater so it would be a liitle more universal.:cool:
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FDuchmn, i still fly my P51 with 75% fuel 2 sectors (roundtrip sometines) .What was the final goal of the sides involved in WW2?
To win the war, or to create fighter aces?
What's the final goal of this game? to make aces ,only?
we have fuel now always more than 75%, let's dogfight,for score and perks only, until we puke without any strategic reason.
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Originally posted by ghi
I'm more base killer than fighter. I don't like to lose the war, and if possible to win.
That's how i get the fun from this game for 15$/month. Soo, fuel can't be porked under 75%?? !!
How to slow down (300+) rooks sundays evenings??!!
Soo, ww2's planes only, not WW2's tactics??!!
Ploiesti's rafineries Romania, (oil supplier for germans), were bombed by Usaf (1943 -1945).
Fuel should be possible to go down, pork to 0%, disabled, like amo, troops.
If i'm porker today, i'm outnumbered, if u have more players defend your fuel.
I agree only way to stop the horde is to pork.
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id be happy with a halfway messure of 50% fuel.......
i just cant understand some peoples arguements
if we can have unlimited planes, unlimited fuel, can we please have unlimited ammo? :confused: :rolleyes:
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also... read this:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121602
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Originally posted by ghi
let's dogfight until we puke without any strategic reason.
I had to edit out the score potato/perk thingy there ghi because dogfightin until you puke rarely produces either.
But as it's written now ??
That works for me.
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some people seem to see this game in different ways
i see it as a WWII sim, where u try and take land (bases) from the other side, till he loses. Fights are great yes, but its isnt the ONLY thing that this game is about. Its about winning the war......
yet some see this as a fighter only game, and think base taking is lame/dweebish....what the hell?!?! :confused:
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Ok I'm split on this issue.
1. Not all fuel porkers are suicide dweebs. I've flown many a mission in B-17s to slow the enemy down. If that meant take out the fuel, I did, or if capture looked close I'd hit the hangers. But never did I nose dive into the ground doing it. I know there are some that do but not all.
2. Does anyone know what the down time is for Fighter hangers now? My experience has been if you don't have a goon waiting he'll never get there before they pop back up. As a porker, along with a fighter, I'll bomb whatever is the best to accomplish my goals.
3. If the new strategy is to hit the hangers how many people will hang around if all their hangers are down for a 10 sector radius?
Porkers are porkers and they will find something to pork.
I don't know what the answer is here but I do know that I do not enjoy flying bombers if there is not a seeable reward for putting bombs on target.
*Paints big bulls eye on shirt and steps out into the line of fire* :D
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Well, I love to FIGHT. I fly fighters almost exclusively. However, I also actively participate in defending and taking bases and territory. I'm no ace by any stretch, I barely make the top 1K in fighter and attack rank, my k/d ratio is barely over 1.1:1. But I still like to fight. That does not mean I do not enjoy attack missions and taking or defending bases and territory. But I still think that the ability to pork fuel to 25% or even 50% with or without the 2X multiplier in effect is a joke. I still want to FIGHT. That means I want people to fight at a base I'm attacking, and I want to be able to fight at a base I'm defending. Porking fuel to the point no one can fly ruins the fight. if you want to take or defend bases without a fight, find a place to milkrun somwhere, or a base someone is trying to milkrun. Taking the FIGHT out of the game takes the fun and the challenge out of the game. Without that, you might as well log off and fly against the AI.
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Originally posted by Overlag
Its about winning the war......
But, as you said... its not ONLY about any one thing, so it's not ONLY about winning the war. Hell, I love flying bombers. I probably spend 1/3 of my sorties in buffs, on an average camp. But I have NO idea how strat works in the MA, and I have never intentionally dropped on a fuel tank.
I couldn't care less about "winning" the war. All it means to me is a forced dump and some perk points.
-Sik
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1. Not all fuel porkers are suicide dweebs. I've flown many a mission in B-17s to slow the enemy down. If that meant take out the fuel, I did, or if capture looked close I'd hit the hangers. But never did I nose dive into the ground doing it. I know there are some that do but not all.
True ... not all are ... but the majority are and thats the problem. Overlag has a good idea on fuel strat, but I doubt that it would be implemented anytime soon.
2. Does anyone know what the down time is for Fighter hangers now? My experience has been if you don't have a goon waiting he'll never get there before they pop back up. As a porker, along with a fighter, I'll bomb whatever is the best to accomplish my goals.
It's still 15 minutes. I purposely downed GV and FH hangers last night and watched what happened. They stayed down just like in AH I ... no difference.
3. If the new strategy is to hit the hangers how many people will hang around if all their hangers are down for a 10 sector radius?
Porkers are porkers and they will find something to pork.
Same amount as would hang around if all fuel were to be porked in the same radius. Difference is that hangers will regenrate in 15 minutes regardless, where as fuel regeneration relies on a supply mechanisim. Hangers will pop back up long before the fuel is brought back.
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Holy cow guys...25% fuel never stopped me from flying...just shortned the ride a little. Sounds like not only are people "crying" (as defined in the post by the fighters) about porking fuel are "crying" (as defined by me) about not having a full tank.
(BTW...for the record I spend most of my time in a fighter...so I am not a biased "porker dweeb" or what ever the ridiculous vernacular might be today.)
Geezzzz...If there is anything I've learned, people are going to "cry" over something regardless.
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Lets enable kamikaze missions, that would be some serious immersion into the game. :D :D :D
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The single most effective LONGEST lasting way to stop your base from being takin is to destroy the barracks. Fuel stays dead for 15mins barracks stay dead for 45mins. Just think in 45 mins you could take out the barracks at four bases. Plus with the new base layouts there is only one set of barracks with 4 or 5 dedicated porkers you could bring the total steam roller to a grinding stop for 45 mins.
So stop whining about not being able to stop the steam roller cause your whine dont deserve no CHEESE!
Kill the barracks and be happy for 30 mins longer wow talk about your bang for the buck.
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Originally posted by icemaw
The single most effective LONGEST lasting way to stop your base from being takin is to destroy the barracks. Fuel stays dead for 15mins barracks stay dead for 45mins. Just think in 45 mins you could take out the barracks at four bases. Plus with the new base layouts there is only one set of barracks with 4 or 5 dedicated porkers you could bring the total steam roller to a grinding stop for 45 mins.
So stop whining about not being able to stop the steam roller cause your whine dont deserve no CHEESE!
Kill the barracks and be happy for 30 mins longer wow talk about your bang for the buck.
Your such a heathan Drill Sgt !!!
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It's about having fun. If milkrunning undefended bases floats your boat, then by all means go for it. If ganging-up in missions to overwhelm and roll over any and all possible opposition gets you excited, knock yourself out. But that sort of activity isn't the primary focus of this game - at least didn't used to be -in fact it is the very worst parts of it.
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The fuel porking, or lack thereof, is by FAR the best thing about AH2.
I'd make the switch to AH2 for this alone, least now when a country is down to 3-5 fields they can still fly and don't have to log until after the reset.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Lets enable kamikaze missions, that would be some serious immersion into the game. :D :D :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Only if you up one it costs all your perks AND
your denied access to your account for eternity but still have to pay your monthly fees.
That way you won't actually be dead...but it'll feel that way. :lol
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I hope you realize I was joking Adogg
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Originally posted by ghi
FDuchmn, i still fly my P51 with 75% fuel 2 sectors (roundtrip sometines) .What was the final goal of the sides involved in WW2?
To win the war, or to create fighter aces?
What's the final goal of this game? to make aces ,only?
we have fuel now always more than 75%, let's dogfight,for score and perks only, until we puke without any strategic reason.
oh boy... :rolleyes:
okay... first of all, ghi, let me say this... Get A Clue! ;)
Sooo, what is the final goal? What is that? Is there such a thing in the MA? Win the reset? Is that it? Come on, that just added value to the what we can do in the MA.
Oh yeah there is a final goal! Yes there is! Common to everyone!... HAVE FUN! That's all there is to it. How you have the fun, is up to you! ;) C'est ne pas?
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Originally posted by ghi
I'm more base killer than fighter. I don't like to lose the war, and if possible to win.
That's how i get the fun from this game for 15$/month. Soo, fuel can't be porked under 75%?? !!
How to slow down (300+) rooks sundays evenings??!!
Soo, ww2's planes only, not WW2's tactics??!!
Ploiesti's rafineries Romania, (oil supplier for germans), were bombed by Usaf (1943 -1945).
Fuel should be possible to go down, pork to 0%, disabled, like amo, troops.
If i'm porker today, i'm outnumbered, if u have more players defend your fuel.
I guess you'll just have to find another method to make yourself feel important. Hey, I know! HQ raids! Yeah, blind the buggers and restore that old feeling of imposing yourself on everyone else. Sort of like surreptitiously peeing in the community pool, right? :rolleyes:
My regards,
Widewing
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I think the point ghi was trying to make is valid. You need a way to limit the enemy's flight range. With the new burn maybe 50% would be better than 75%.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I guess you'll just have to find another method to make yourself feel important. Hey, I know! HQ raids! Yeah, blind the buggers and restore that old feeling of imposing yourself on everyone else. Sort of like surreptitiously peeing in the community pool, right? :rolleyes:
My regards,
Widewing
sigh :rolleyes:
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Ghi's post was relating to reducing the fuel to counter the disparity in numbers, that is to slow them down. Porking fuel doesn't help to capture a base.
As it stands now a team with a large numerical advantage (in both fields & players) can stay over an enemy field longer and cap it. It becomes pointless to up from the fields and ulimately pointless to stay logged on.
On the other side of the coin limiting fuel to 75% prevents folks from your own side from porking a field that you intend to take over. So there's good and bad to the fuel issue however the root of the complaint is with the numbers. That has to be dealt with too at some point because it will alienate a portion of the customers. I believe the current fuel situation makes it much worse for the side with fewer players and fields.
As has been said this is a game and we're supposed to have fun but it is a business as well. I appreciate and salute HiTech for the hugh investment that they made in putting AH2 out. I'm sure risking some temporary loss of customers without the equipment to run AH2 yet. I know there's a long road ahead with fine tuning the game.
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Having fuel being porked to the point that early and midwar planes are parked causes those that love those planes to find something else to do with their time.
No matter how much you land grabbers pork the fuel now, I no longer am reduced to watching TV.
The War that never ends is a wonderful thing, but without some sort of balance, those that love air to air and could care less about the almighty reset still can do what they enjoy.
Tho you might have to get in a tussel.
Tussels are fun.
Think of it.
THE TUSSEL THAT NEVER ENDS.
Just sort of rolls off the tongue.
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Originally posted by Ratnick
Ghi's post was relating to reducing the fuel to counter the disparity in numbers, that is to slow them down. Porking fuel doesn't help to capture a base.
As it stands now a team with a large numerical advantage (in both fields & players) can stay over an enemy field longer and cap it. It becomes pointless to up from the fields and ulimately pointless to stay logged on.
Exactly...I agree with Ghi on this.
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Originally posted by Ratnick
As it stands now a team with a large numerical advantage (in both fields & players) can stay over an enemy field longer and cap it. It becomes pointless to up from the fields and ulimately pointless to stay logged on
You know ?? Somebody has said something along those lines once or twice before.
..the name escapes me tho
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If this all comes down to numbers then some Rookies need to grow some and switch to Bish. Hate to say it but being a Knit, we are usually outnumbered or in the middle, wouldn't help for me to change sides or I would. I think if a couple of big squads change from Rook to Bish it would help things out alot, unless the dweebs can't stand not being in the crowd. :p