Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tumor on June 25, 2004, 11:56:04 PM
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Is the best thing HTC's done for game-play in years!! I just love how the building battlers have turned to the "Little train that could" approach. Sadly, the choo-choo just aint making it over the hill. :) Furballs, effort and teamwork have become the norm!
Thankyou HTC
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Agreed. I might log in more often.
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Blah Blah Blah...
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Now if we could just get a fix to the overabundance of Spits Niks and LaGayo's... all will be well. :)
Unfortunately,.. I fear Rip Van Winkle will wake long before HTC.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Now if we could just get a fix to the overabundance of Spits Niks and LaGayo's... all will be well. :)
Of course, all the P-51Ds are just fine and dandy.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Karnak
Of course, all the P-51Ds are just fine and dandy.:rolleyes:
Those too if it makes ya happy. Not being argumentative but I don't get the "feel" that the P-51 is all big a deal. Not hard to deal with in any case.
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don't get too happy, something tells me this won't last.:D
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P-47 > Spit, P-51. La-7's, N1K1s
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Those too if it makes ya happy. Not being argumentative but I don't get the "feel" that the P-51 is all big a deal. Not hard to deal with in any case.
How hard to deal it isn't an issue. If theres any plane that needs to be balanced out, the first one is logically the P-51D.
Although the P-51D is the most hyped plane on Earth, and like others have said it'd be near impossible to see it perked, even if it needs to be.
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right about the 51, and the spits are so slow they should not be perked
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Funny I logged on last night and the Sky was absolutely filled with 190's....i actually was frightened that i had entered into some alternate Universe. I actually had to search to find a Niki or LALA. It was just plain scary.
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The finaly blow to the porkers, at least the dweebey gamey suicdal ones, would be to do something about those frickin' deck run/dive bombing level buffs.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The finaly blow to the porkers, at least the dweebey gamey suicdal ones, would be to do something about those frickin' deck run/dive bombing level buffs.
AMEN !!!
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I had the lovely time of logging on and seeing NO PORKED FUEL.
ANYWHERE.
And best of all...IT WASN'T DARK.
Two of my major complaints about the previous AH MA....GONE
I like!
J_A_B
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Withthe new fuel burn feature...fuel porking would be three times the b1tch it was b4. If we had the old model you would NEVER see 1/2 the planeset beause of its 'short legs'. Only problem is that a valid stratigic target is now useless, thus moving more into the air-quake mode.
Perhaps if fuel was a two-three pronged issue:
porking field fuel would only effect available fuel if the road/bridges leading too the base were destroyed and/or the refinery in the 'zone' was at 50% or less or something
It would require a rework of some targets, but I think it would prevent the easY fuel pork, while maintaining it as a strtegi target.....oh and make it so fuel is always 100% for countries with fewer than 5 bases or some such thing.
when did b1tch become bad word? We get blood on the canopies and cant use such a common non vulgar word...geez
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B1tch is not a bad word, just a name for a female dog:) also in case anyone was wondering where the word sh.t came from......back in the day when people where shipping "fertilizer" they notice that when in was stored below deck the methane, as we know, could combust, especially with the lack of ventilation. So on the containers they wrote S.H.I.T, meaning Ship High In Transport. So these containers where stored on the deck where ventilation good and no explosions:)
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I never did like Quake, all you do in the game is Shoot people... then die...then restart your character and do it all over again. I lost interest in that game quickly. There was no main objective no goal to achieve. You couldnt press your enemys into a corner and watch them whine about not having a rail gun...
Porking was a part of war. I dont know the answer on how to fix it, there are just too many ways to do it and It will anger many people any way you slice it..esp those on this post. Something has to be done to add a ground attack role into this game 15 min down for FH isn't enough to slow the enemy. Something has to change, am losing too many squadies to this issue.
RHIN0
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Edit: I alays thought AH is best enjoyed 1-2 hours a day. With the new FM and gunnery, I've been putting in way more which has lead to some "snippidy" comments on my part. I think I 'll take a few days off :D
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Porking was a part of war.
RHIN0
Ahh... but in "war", how often could 4 or 5 suicidal pilots pork an entire front worth of enemy airfields all by themselves?
What we have here is actually the opposite of promoting "Air Quake". What's been removed is "easy-mode" from the strategic sense. Teamwork and coordination are a must now in most cases, and I've seen it. A few squads out there understand this as I've seen some intense action lately involving heavy bombers, Fighter-bombers and Escort all playing thier roles to a tee. I've been seeing furballs develop around these coordinated actions to a point that even Lazs can find plenty of room to be happy.
Things are good. The fun is there more now than before.... we now have plenty of furballs for the Quakies, strategic stuff for the building battlers, you name it. EASY MODE field porking has been turned off, and I'm glad. I'm sure a number of folks will stomp-off in a huff because they've lost thier lone-wolf-suicide-hero badge, can't say I'll miss'em. But... all they gotta do is look a little harder, right now they can't see the forest for the trees.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
P-47 > Spit, P-51. La-7's, N1K1s
yup that is very true when talking about mass :D :p
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Quote:
"So on the containers they wrote S.H.I.T, meaning Ship High In Transport. "
You know, your computer can also be used for education also.
Do a simple google search and you will find this is one of those urban myths.
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You know, your computer can also be used for education also.
Hahah, made me laugh.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ahh... but in "war", how often could 4 or 5 suicidal pilots pork an entire front worth of enemy airfields all by themselves?
What we have here is actually the opposite of promoting "Air Quake". What's been removed is "easy-mode" from the strategic sense.
What we have here is the extreme other end. With "easy mode" turned off. Porking is now non existent. I went to 3 of our front line fields that were swarmed by NME most of the night, and what was funny is that the troops, ammo and fuel were virtually untouched. But then again...it didn’t matter. As the Vulching hoard kept any operations from being initiated anyway. Unless of course you wanted to post a NME Score padding mission? :D AH2 most definitely has become more of an Air to Air combat game with the current settings. The factories and depots are more of a score-milking lure than ever before. It’s pointless to hit a fuel depot to further the effects of fuel strikes of airfields now. The fuel settings are encouraging vulchin like never before. While having the strat settings like they are now will make for a good base after its captured. Capturing a base without a Hoard is very unlikely. Again..Hoard!!! If you love the Hoard...you will love the New AH2. Actually seems contrary to most of the feedback ive read in the BBS for a year now. I seem to remember more complaints about the Hoard than any other subject laid on the table.
Originally posted by Tumor
Teamwork and coordination are a must now in most cases, and I've seen it. A few squads out there understand this as I've seen some intense action lately involving heavy bombers, Fighter-bombers and Escort all playing their roles to a tee.
To very little or no avail :rolleyes: I have seen it too. But it makes for good score building. (Killing all those bombers) :D
Originally posted by Tumor
Things are good. The fun is there more now than before.... we now have plenty of furballs for the Quakies, strategic stuff for the building battlers, you name it. EASY MODE field porking has been turned off, and I'm glad. I'm sure a number of folks will stomp-off in a huff because they've lost thier lone-wolf-suicide-hero badge, can't say I'll miss'em. But... all they gotta do is look a little harder, right now they can't see the forest for the trees.
The fuel settings are encouraging vulching like never before
Game play is suffering in the broad spectrum as it stands. As for Squadrons...well the point of having a organized war oriented squadron is fast diminishing as well.
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What we have here is actually the opposite of promoting "Air Quake".
What we have is 3-4 ant trails between bases and Air Quake in between. You are correct teamwork has to prevail to achieve the desired "Strategic" effect, but as you put it in "war" we didnt have 3-5 guys that would take out an entire field....but this isnt war if it were we would have everyone in the air when they were needed but insted you have Little league games, work, school, and many other things that happen in peoples real lives that do not allow them to sustain a full fledged attack on a few pixels.
As I said before I dont have the answer, I have ideas just as many others do, on another thread Overlag has the best idea I have seen. However the way things stand today it is Air Quake, If you want to join a mission and bomb some targets to slow the enemy you have 15minutes for the effects to wear off. So whats the point?
I wont fly into a base to try to slow the enemy, I will just up and Quake with the rest of them. It will not hold my attention long and it has already started to slip. I enjoy the fights, I also enjoy being a very accurate A2G attacker. After I bomb I like to mix it up and fight my way back to base. I Havent carried a bomb on a fighter in quite a while, Unless it was to bomb a GV that I can never seem to find until I am on top of them. I even gave that up until it is fixed.
Call this a whine call it what you will It is just me voicing my opinion of the percieved situation of the game today. I know it will change it has to, It appears to me more are unhappy about the strat today than there were people unhappy about the porking.
It is a double edged sword you cant have one without the other. I agree easy mode is off, but until you tell the AH community to fight or goto the brig there has to be an easy mode. I have 30 in my squad, 15 of wich quit, and only about 3-5 of those are on at any given time. So if a squad of 30 in real life has the power to effect the enemy, my 3-5 squadies should be the equivelent of an entire war squad.
Let the beating begin.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by kevykev56
What we have is 3-4 ant trails between bases and Air Quake in between. You are correct teamwork has to prevail to achieve the desired "Strategic" effect, but as you put it in "war" we didnt have 3-5 guys that would take out an entire field....but this isnt war if it were we would have everyone in the air when they were needed but insted you have Little league games, work, school, and many other things that happen in peoples real lives that do not allow them to sustain a full fledged attack on a few pixels.
As I said before I dont have the answer, I have ideas just as many others do, on another thread Overlag has the best idea I have seen. However the way things stand today it is Air Quake, If you want to join a mission and bomb some targets to slow the enemy you have 15minutes for the effects to wear off. So whats the point?
I wont fly into a base to try to slow the enemy, I will just up and Quake with the rest of them. It will not hold my attention long and it has already started to slip. I enjoy the fights, I also enjoy being a very accurate A2G attacker. After I bomb I like to mix it up and fight my way back to base. I Havent carried a bomb on a fighter in quite a while, Unless it was to bomb a GV that I can never seem to find until I am on top of them. I even gave that up until it is fixed.
Call this a whine call it what you will It is just me voicing my opinion of the percieved situation of the game today. I know it will change it has to, It appears to me more are unhappy about the strat today than there were people unhappy about the porking.
It is a double edged sword you cant have one without the other. I agree easy mode is off, but until you tell the AH community to fight or goto the brig there has to be an easy mode. I have 30 in my squad, 15 of wich quit, and only about 3-5 of those are on at any given time. So if a squad of 30 in real life has the power to effect the enemy, my 3-5 squadies should be the equivelent of an entire war squad.
Let the beating begin.
RHIN0
Things have been rather subdued in the MAFIA since AH2 went live.
We have lost 3 members to date. 1 not having fun...1 cant afford an upgrade. And 1 said "technical difficulties" The overall mood is looking kinda down at this time I was unable to attend last nights squad ops because of CTDs. But it was reported to me that 6 guys logged off earlier than normal. The reporter said he was under the impression that they logged in disgust. I hope to pull our guys together and keep our chins up. But with my chin so low...i cant see if theirs is up or not. LOL (6 CTD last night).
If we determine to stick out AH...i know we will prevail. Now if we can just stay interested long enough to see it thru? We shall see. <>
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p47.. wtf??:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
What we have here is the extreme other end. With "easy mode" turned off. Porking is now non existent. I went to 3 of our front line fields that were swarmed by NME most of the night, and what was funny is that the troops, ammo and fuel were virtually untouched. But then again...it didn’t matter. As the Vulching hoard kept any operations from being initiated anyway.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you take off at a field thats being overwhelmed are they? Vulching, as underhanded as some think it is, is a natural piece of the base-capture pie. Your losing me.
Unless of course you wanted to post a NME Score padding mission? :D AH2 most definitely has become more of an Air to Air combat game with the current settings. The factories and depots are more of a score-milking lure than ever before. It’s pointless to hit a fuel depot to further the effects of fuel strikes of airfields now. The fuel settings are encouraging vulchin like never before. While having the strat settings like they are now will make for a good base after its captured. Capturing a base without a Hoard is very unlikely. Again..Hoard!!! If you love the Hoard...you will love the New AH2. Actually seems contrary to most of the feedback ive read in the BBS for a year now. I seem to remember more complaints about the Hoard than any other subject laid on the table.
where's the fun in 2-3 players being able to take a single field? And why should that be a standard in a game that attempts to integrate Air Combat and a Strategic war? A "horde" by the historical definition around here is hardly required to take a field, again, I've seen plenty. Guess I just don't get why some folks don't want to face defense.
To very little or no avail :rolleyes: I have seen it too. But it makes for good score building. (Killing all those bombers) :D
The fuel settings are encouraging vulching like never before
Game play is suffering in the broad spectrum as it stands. As for Squadrons...well the point of having a organized war oriented squadron is fast diminishing as well.
I just don't get it... how can a move made by HTC that encourages group activity be damaging to an entire squadron? It doesn't make sense unless your squad simply avoids fighting, which IMHO is the point of the game, as well as the inherent objective of a war-game-oriented squadron. Again, I keep seeing bases being taken by all sides, with massive ENDURING furballs going on in the process. Shoot me for enjoying what I would think is the point of Aces High, but thats just the way I see it
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Things have been rather subdued in the MAFIA since AH2 went live.
We have lost 3 members to date. 1 not having fun...1 cant afford an upgrade. And 1 said "technical difficulties" The overall mood is looking kinda down at this time I was unable to attend last nights squad ops because of CTDs. But it was reported to me that 6 guys logged off earlier than normal. The reporter said he was under the impression that they logged in disgust. I hope to pull our guys together and keep our chins up. But with my chin so low...i cant see if theirs is up or not. LOL (6 CTD last night).
If we determine to stick out AH...i know we will prevail. Now if we can just stay interested long enough to see it thru? We shall see. <>
Have you checked the Hardware forum? I've had "some" problems, but I've yet to suffer a CTD (started hitting the beta versions about 2 months ago). No hotrod of a system by comparison but mine is over 2 years old. Sometimes ya just gotta bite the bullet and upgrade. Unfortunately, thats computer gaming for ya.
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I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.
If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.
Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.
I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.
A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.
Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.
Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.
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Originally posted by Tumor
I've had "some" problems, but I've yet to suffer a CTD
Check that... first CTD tonight. Noticed Vid mem was maxed out and wierd things started happening, then poof. Think it's an issue with latest patch, wasn't happening before (forgot that I'd noticed the creep earlier). HTC'll fix it.
Tumor
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Originally posted by Leayme
I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.
If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.
Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.
I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.
A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.
Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.
Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.
Take a breath building battler. Adjustments will be made. It it ain't over, it's just begun.
If you have to fight in the meantime ??
Who knows, you just might enjoy it.
Stranger things have happened..
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quote:
Originally posted by Tumor
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you take off at a field thats being overwhelmed are they? Vulching, as underhanded as some think it is, is a natural piece of the base-capture pie. Your losing me.
Reply by mugzeee
No nobody is holding a gun to my head. I am making the observation that attacking ground targets is almost totally ignored making de-acking and vulching priority #1
Originally posted by Tumor
where's the fun in 2-3 players being able to take a single field? And why should that be a standard in a game that attempts to integrate Air Combat and a Strategic war? A "horde" by the historical definition around here is hardly required to take a field, again, I've seen plenty. Guess I just don't get why some folks don't want to face defense.
Reply by mugzeee
Firstly taking a base with 2 or 3 players is a thing of the past with the size of the towns in AH2 without even factoring in the porkage issue. With the town targets being like 3 times more than Ah1...the fuel porkage at supporting bases is more important than before.(buys the extra time needed to take down the larger towns) Again you miss my point. The game used to be more multi faceted. Air to ground War, Air to Air, and attacking strategic factories, planning attacks at supporting fields to slow down the NME and so on. Think Sure we had to fight our way to the target sometimes. Sometimes we had to kill the last second risers on a base we were trying to capture. And sometimes we got in unscaved. The new AH2 is going to encourage parading light fighters to the nearest vulch fest like never before “Guess I just don't get why some folks don't want to face defense.” Where was this philosophy when you needed to “Defend” your fuel bunkers? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Tumor
I just don't get it... how can a move made by HTC that encourages group activity be damaging to an entire squadron? It doesn't make sense unless your squad simply avoids fighting, which IMHO is the point of the game, as well as the inherent objective of a war-game-oriented squadron. Again, I keep seeing bases being taken by all sides, with massive ENDURING furballs going on in the process. Shoot me for enjoying what I would think is the point of Aces High, but thats just the way I see it.
Reply by mugzeee
Of coarse you don’t get it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have replied to my reply the way you did in the first place.
Originally posted by Leayme
I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.
If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.
Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.
I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.
A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.
Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.
Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.
Well stated. :aok
Its all about the "Thinking" game
Not much to think about with the current strat settings.
Just recruit about 40 countrymen and furball your brains out on the same map for a week at a time with FAR less resets.
Next thing you know...somebody will suggest watermelon canning the reset thingy completely. Which is fine if you like that sort of thing. But i assure you the Majority play with the reset in mind. Otherwise...why would they ever consider loading bombs or flying a bomber?
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Lets face it, if you fly a short legged fighter like a Spit the 2x burn kills ya. Yes you can take DTs but then you rate of climb suffers. Not good if scrambling to intercept raid.
Fuel system needs to go back to what is was, all this no fuel below 75% is absolute ^^$$%&**%^. Just as well in the real war we couldn't go below 75%, guess neither side suffered from fuel shortages.
This 'new' fuel model has done nothing but encourage hoards of P51s at astronaut levels. After all 75% in a Pony even on 2x burn takes ya a long way. Another kick in the a55 to short legged fighters. Hell lets just call it Ponies High, and get it over with.
Porking is part of the game, the only way to slow down the Rook hoard is to nail their barracks and fuel, at least only their barracks now.
Next we won't be able to kill hangers, because that stops people upping, just make all ground targets unkillable now, thats the way its going.
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Far as I understand it, and please correct me if I am likely wrong, but MA is not the "real war" arena. That is the honor of the CT arena.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lets face it, if you fly a short legged fighter like a Spit the 2x burn kills ya. Yes you can take DTs but then you rate of climb suffers. Not good if scrambling to intercept raid.
Fuel system needs to go back to what is was, all this no fuel below 75% is absolute ^^$$%&**%^. Just as well in the real war we couldn't go below 75%, guess neither side suffered from fuel shortages.
This 'new' fuel model has done nothing but encourage hoards of P51s at astronaut levels. After all 75% in a Pony even on 2x burn takes ya a long way. Another kick in the a55 to short legged fighters. Hell lets just call it Ponies High, and get it over with.
Porking is part of the game, the only way to slow down the Rook hoard is to nail their barracks and fuel, at least only their barracks now.
Next we won't be able to kill hangers, because that stops people upping, just make all ground targets unkillable now, thats the way its going.
Kev! I was wondering if I was the only one who "got it". The 75% fuel was a concession for the STUPID 2X fuel burn multiplier. Strategy is now artificially dictated by these unrealistic constraints. This is a good thing for the turn-and-burn furballers, however to those of us who are concerned with winning the war it is just plain crazy... In a war you have 3 basic jobs you want to do. 1 is to kill people to cut their numbers down, another is to break things to deny their use/usefuleness to the enemy and finally to take whats left of the heap of rubble from them! That, gentlemen is how wars are WON!
The way the game has changed this is becoming nothing but a big-oscared Dueling Arena! Bombers no longer have an effective role outside of bombing a city, hq or a carrier.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Its all about the "Thinking" game
True. Every fight I take part in is the thinking game. I live for that kind of thought. It's always different. Never the same.
Now as far as winning the war that never ends ??
You get a horde together and you roll up the map.
Your going to tell me now that it isn't so ??
I thought not.
And then..
You can do it ALL over again.
WHAT FUN !!!
I'm begining to think that the vast majority of AHII whiners are land grabbers. And the thought that they might have to vary there approach to map hording throws them into a tizzy.
It's no surprise that dealing with things that change very rapidly would cause problems.
Don't wanna bump the apple cart and encourage thought ??
LOL
Oxymoron there Mugs. But you work it. With alittle practice in the new game you'll be land grabbing with the best of'um.
Perish the "thought"
:D
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Hi 6Guns.
Yup agree, totally.
Not being able to attrit the enemas resources is totally stupid.
2x fuel burn on a P51 still goes a long, long way. So if the idea was to balnce the never less than 75% fuel availability - it doesn't work. It only kills short legged fighters.
nopoop I agree with a few things, but - I like flying the short legged fighters. Why should any class of planes be 'penalised' to allegedly help the gameplay, which IMHO it isn't.
Actually thinking about it, if HT wants to make it a furball only game get rid of all strats, towns, HQ, etc etc. As 6Guns said buffs have a limited use since this (cough) innovation.
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Actually Kev with the new fuel porking limit short legged fighters are a viable alternative where they were worthless with the old fuel pork criteria.
I'm a short legged fighter kind of guy.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Is the best thing HTC's done for game-play in years!! I just love how the building battlers have turned to the "Little train that could" approach. Sadly, the choo-choo just aint making it over the hill. :) Furballs, effort and teamwork have become the norm!
Thankyou HTC
Teamwork my prettythang
Hording hording and more hording have become the norm. Doesnt take much teamwork to horde in fact it doesnt take ANY teamwork to horde
I see how the massive furball lovers love this, as most dont care how many bases they loose.
For the rest of us that dont like HUGE furballs and/or give a damn about getting steamrolled it being forced into a position where we can do nothing to stop the horde onslaught sucks.. big time.
Add to that, this garbage dump of a map and it only makes it worse
As was proven tonght killing off all frontline barracks did zero to slow the horde down let alone stop them.
Current setup ailienates a large section of players by forcing them into a style of play they neither want nor enjoy
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Originally posted by ALF
Withthe new fuel burn feature...fuel porking would be three times the b1tch it was b4. If we had the old model you would NEVER see 1/2 the planeset beause of its 'short legs'. Only problem is that a valid stratigic target is now useless, thus moving more into the air-quake mode.
Perhaps if fuel was a two-three pronged issue:
porking field fuel would only effect available fuel if the road/bridges leading too the base were destroyed and/or the refinery in the 'zone' was at 50% or less or something
It would require a rework of some targets, but I think it would prevent the easY fuel pork, while maintaining it as a strtegi target
Now if they are able to do something about side numbers balancing, this I could buy into.
Also add to it perhaps making it take like 40 troops in the maproom in an X amount of time to capture.
Now THAT would promote teamwork as well as make it harder be it just a bit for the mass hordes to steamroll everything in sight
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ahh... but in "war", how often could 4 or 5 suicidal pilots pork an entire front worth of enemy airfields all by themselves?
I beleive the Japanese had something they called Kamakazi.
But I still maintain the intentional suicide porkers while they do exist. And yes I have seen some also. But, they are very few and far between and that most of the perceived suicides witnessed were the result of the feild ack doing its job.
Late perhaps but it did its job.
Ny comparison. the divebombing heavy bombers (Lancs, B-17s) Are a much larger problem particularly from a realism standpoint as well as an annoying one. then these so called suiside porkers
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Originally posted by kevykev56
What we have is 3-4 ant trails between bases and Air Quake in between. You are correct teamwork has to prevail to achieve the desired "Strategic" effect, but as you put it in "war" we didnt have 3-5 guys that would take out an entire field
However the way things stand today it is Air Quake, If you want to join a mission and bomb some targets to slow the enemy you have 15minutes for the effects to wear off. So whats the point?
I enjoy the fights, I also enjoy being a very accurate A2G attacker. After I bomb I like to mix it up and fight my way back to base. Call this a whine call it what you will It is just me voicing my opinion of the percieved situation of the game today. I know it will change it has to, It appears to me more are unhappy about the strat today than there were people unhappy about the porking.
RHIN0
Actually there was a film floating around a while back of a small group of american fighters doing exactly that.
Hitting a feild. Often after escort duty fighters would attack airfeild and other targets of opportunity.
So yea. they did have people doing it. Maybe not 4-5 but then again we dont have a couple thousand aircraft in the air either
but yea, it was done.
Air quake is a good analogy.
I feel as you do about A2g attack. though I will hit a feild to slow em down. like you after I bomb I lke to stick around and mix it up and try to fight my way back to base. sometimes I succeed often I dont. but it sure is fun as hell trying.
On another note. both in AHI and AHII Ive seen teamwork used to take bases. But its really VERY rare.
You can usually recocgnise it by the surprisingly few numbers used to capture it, Maybe 10-15 at the most
Most of the time its not real teamwork but rather just a horde of people and a couple folks either flying goons cause they see the crowd or deciding to bring back a goon at the last minute.
Swarm in with rediculously overwhelming numbers,kill ack.blow up or strafe buildings and vulch ahoy and yelling at each other for stealing vulches till the troops arrive.
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Originally posted by nopoop
True. Every fight I take part in is the thinking game. I live for that kind of thought. It's always different. Never the same.
.
It's no surprise that dealing with things that change very rapidly would cause problems.
Don't wanna bump the apple cart and encourage thought ??
LOL
Oxymoron there Mugs. But you work it. With alittle practice in the new game you'll be land grabbing with the best of'um.
Perish the "thought"
:D
Actually the people who like more then just the furball or just the fight in front of them take the thinking game a step farther. Cause they still have to think about the fight and they've added also thinking about whats going on on the map as well and not just whats going on in the immediate vacinity.
We all..well most of us cept maybe the horders enjoy the thinking part of the fight. Some of us just like to think a little more
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OK then Spit carrys 1 x 300l tank = 80 gallons (approx)
P51 carrys 2 x75 gallon = 150 gallons
Take a guess who the 2x fuel burn rate hits the most, thats not even including the internal tanks!!!
Gone are the days of taking Spits etc on any 'long range" escorts.
I mgiht be mistaken but it seems the main contigent who complain about porking are the Rooks. Couldn't be because it slows down their hoard now, could it? Must have be a real bummer to log on Sundays with 200+ players and find no fuel or troops at your front line fields.
Looking again at the original post, 'building battling' is part of the game I believe, or HT wouldn't have included that part of the gameplay - of course I could be wrong.
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I mgiht be mistaken but it seems the main contigent who complain about porking are the Rooks.
You are mistaken.
The people that have been consistently vocal on fuel porkage, no matter what country they fly for, are also the ones who don't participate in the "horde" du jour.
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No matter how you slice it there is now an imbalance towards the furball.
Not all furballs are bad. I've had a lot of fun both in terms of defending a base and in terms of taking the fight to the enemy horde's launching point.
BUT
I've been involved in 3 base capture attempts: 2 coordinated and 1 not. All three failed. And not because coordination was lacking.
The problem was those friggin FHs. You cannot tell me that if a base was under attack and its hangers were destroyed that any attempt to rebuild would not be instantly met with straffing runs by the circling enemy pilots.
There should be a kind of modifier that slows down the rebuilding of hangars if the base continues to be under attack. Failing that lengthen the down time for the hangers but Increase the number of troops to take the base.
Furthermore the furballers don't have to like the fact that strats can be porked but guess what?
I want fuel porking to come back. I've never like being on the recieving end of it but it was realistic and I could live with it. Infinite fuel is like infinite ammo gamey and it sucks.
Moreover if the Fuel Depot Strat has been hit and the base fuel is porked - NO PLANES can take off because there's no gas. Much like bombers can't takeoff because there are no bombs.
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I've never like being on the recieving end of it but it was realistic and I could live with it.
This is where you are wrong.
For some reason, I can not fathom that all the airfields in Europe had the EXACT same layout from field to field, and the fuel bowsers were in the EXACT same position on the fields uncovered and layed out in the open, and that 2 P-51s could bring a field to its knees in 2 passes.
I would tend to believe that 2 P-51s, returning from bomber escort looking for targets of opportunity, would find a base and MAYBE take 2 passes and just fire at anything that had wings on the tarmac and IF a fuel bowser just happend to be within view, they would/might shoot it. This to me would be realistic.
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I think the Spit IX is pretty close to the P51-D, and if one isn't perked, the other shouldn't be either. Fact is, there really isn't that much advantage to flying the Spit V... I do it because its fun, but you got 250 cannon rounds, the 303's are worthless, definetely don't think it should be perked.
As for the fuel porking, I'm all for the new way and I tell you why. Yeah its true that attrition is a product of war, but I don't remember hearing any stories of P38s coming into a base at 15k, releasing their bombs over the fuel dumps, then beating their ordinance to the ground as their plane disintegrates as they surpass mach 5 on the way to becoming a pancake, only to re-up and do it all over again. It only took about 2 of these dedicated souls to completely shut down the front line, and kill every fight going. Now attrition is one thing, but that is WAY too easy.
Also, teamwork still exists here. Frankly I like the new gameplay. If I were to log on to the Pizza map at about 2a.m. central time and look for a fight it became quickly apparent that I should just go to offline mode and play with myself :eek: (You laughed, I know you did). Now at least I can up with my squad, hit a large enemy held area and work together to seperate the enemy and get kills. Look at the LTARs, they up in GVs with half their squad in M3's supporting them.. You might get one or two, but its tough to take them all out... there's another good example of teamwork. I say BRAVO to the death of the suicide porkers. :aok
Join the furball, coming to your area soon! :D
--Mike/Howitzer
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I think the Spit IX is pretty close to the P51-D, and if one isn't perked, the other shouldn't be either. Fact is, there really isn't that much advantage to flying the Spit V... I do it because its fun, but you got 250 cannon rounds, the 303's are worthless, definetely don't think it should be perked.
As for the fuel porking, I'm all for the new way and I tell you why. Yeah its true that attrition is a product of war, but I don't remember hearing any stories of P38s coming into a base at 15k, releasing their bombs over the fuel dumps, then beating their ordinance to the ground as their plane disintegrates as they surpass mach 5 on the way to becoming a pancake, only to re-up and do it all over again. It only took about 2 of these dedicated souls to completely shut down the front line, and kill every fight going. Now attrition is one thing, but that is WAY too easy.
Also, teamwork still exists here. Frankly I like the new gameplay. If I were to log on to the Pizza map at about 2a.m. central time and look for a fight it became quickly apparent that I should just go to offline mode and play with myself :eek: (You laughed, I know you did). Now at least I can up with my squad, hit a large enemy held area and work together to seperate the enemy and get kills. Look at the LTARs, they up in GVs with half their squad in M3's supporting them.. You might get one or two, but its tough to take them all out... there's another good example of teamwork. I say BRAVO to the death of the suicide porkers. :aok
Join the furball, coming to your area soon! :D
--Mike/Howitzer
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For some reason, I can not fathom that all the airfields in Europe had the EXACT same layout from field to field, and the fuel bowsers were in the EXACT same position on the fields uncovered and layed out in the open, and that 2 P-51s could bring a field to its knees in 2 passes.
The issue isnt the field layout, its the ability to slow the enemy. I will tend to agree with you slapshot on the layout. It should be random and harder to find, as it would have been in the war. I diverge from your thinking on the ability of 2 ponys to kill it. In this simulated war we have only a fraction of the numbers of planes and personel that were present then. A flight of 2-5 fighters in this arena should equate to a larger force. If there was a working strat of refinerys and depots that had an effect on individual field capabilities it would be different. As it stands today there is no such system. Therefore we should have a way to drop the enemys concentration of numbers by some means. The way in AH1 was fuel. Im not saying thats the way we need to do it today, however there needs to be some way to slow down the hordes. There are many suggestions out there, I have a few and have stated them on other threads. But something needs to be done to balance out the arena. At current standards we should have unlimited ammo to go with the unlimited planeset and fuel present today.
My idea to slow the hordes is to increase the damage required to kill a FH, say 8k of ord. keep it down for a longer period of time say 45min and limit the planeset with each downed hangar. The numbers are just arbitrary and could be set to whatever would be best to slow the hordes. But like this idea there are 100 more from others that could be used some better some worse.
Bottom line is you cant make everone happy, but a happy medium for all would be nice! Do away with this Air Quake mentality and lets get to some strategy back in the arena.
RHIN0
Edited
Now at least I can up with my squad, hit a large enemy held area and work together to seperate the enemy and get kills.
I see Howitzer has the Air Quake mentality....any others? Game needs diversity.
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If there was a working strat of refinerys and depots that had an effect on individual field capabilities it would be different.
That is the REAL solution, but who knows if this will ever become reality.
The point I was making is that I hate to see the "realism" card played when it comes to "fuel" porking. "Realism" is not a valid argument to support reinstating the old "fuel porkin" strategy of AH I.
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quote:
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Now at least I can up with my squad, hit a large enemy held area and work together to seperate the enemy and get kills.
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I see Howitzer has the Air Quake mentality....any others? Game needs diversity.
Ehhh, not entirely, I've done both, but I must say I like the fights much better this way. The whole "blitzkrieg" that takes place late at night on the huge maps just ceases to be fun after a while.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I beleive the Japanese had something they called Kamakazi.
Ya... and it appears to have worked ~reaaally~ well. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ya... and it appears to have worked ~reaaally~ well. :rolleyes:
Ahh but the arguements wasnt how well they worked. But whether they existed or not.
And while they didnt manage to turn the tide of the war they did do damage.
(http://www.rotten.com/library/death/kamikaze/essex-kamikaze.jpg)
My mother for a while dated a guy who survived a direct hit on his ship from a Kamikazi attack. (Was a carrier but I forget whch one)
Seemed to work well enough in his assessment
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ya... and it appears to have worked ~reaaally~ well. :rolleyes:
Ahh but the arguements wasnt how well they worked. But whether they existed or not.
And while they didnt manage to turn the tide of the war they did do damage.
(http://www.rotten.com/library/death/kamikaze/essex-kamikaze.jpg)
My mother for a while dated a guy who survived a direct hit on his ship from a Kamikazi attack. (Was a carrier but I forget whch one)
Seemed to work well enough in his assessment
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The resets were fun, so was taking bases, gonna miss 'em both. I may be wrong, but I think they are going to be much less common now. Night after night of logging on just to furball gets old, especially when everyone is at one or two bases, but the new gv game play is kind of interesting with the new terrain features. It seems like to me the old model encouraged more spread out play, now it takes 20 or more guys to take a base.
I'm sure people will adjust their gameplay to exploit other weaknesses of the game now that fuel weakness is gone. Isn't there less barracks per field now, easier to pork troops?
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Originally posted by nopoop
True. Every fight I take part in is the thinking game. I live for that kind of thought. It's always different. Never the same.
Now as far as winning the war that never ends ??
You get a horde together and you roll up the map.
Your going to tell me now that it isn't so ??
I thought not.
And then..
You can do it ALL over again.
WHAT FUN !!!
I'm begining to think that the vast majority of AHII whiners are land grabbers. And the thought that they might have to vary there approach to map hording throws them into a tizzy.
It's no surprise that dealing with things that change very rapidly would cause problems.
Don't wanna bump the apple cart and encourage thought ??
LOL
Oxymoron there Mugs. But you work it. With alittle practice in the new game you'll be land grabbing with the best of'um.
Perish the "thought"
:D
Have we had a reset in AH2 not including the friday Host reset?
I wouldnt know.. As i have been grounded more that i like. First severe stutters...now CTD's 6 within an hour in patch4.
But i would stake my wife on it....errrrrr Life on it. The resets will be Far and Few between in AH2 as compared to AH1 with its current settings. So be it.
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At this point i would even consider supporting Furious's Idea.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=118159&referrerid=7566
Seems weird but maybe its better than what AH1 and AH2 had/has to offer.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ahh but the arguements wasnt how well they worked. But whether they existed or not.
No it wasn't... it was about 4 or 5 suicidal pilots ceasing action over an entire front.
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Originally posted by Tumor
No it wasn't... it was about 4 or 5 suicidal pilots ceasing action over an entire front.
I still maintain that most arent suicidal. the true suicide porker while he exists is rare. FAR more rare then they have been made out ot be on the BBS. but I explained this already.
And speaking from experiance. it was next to impossable for only a few pilots to cease action over an entire front unless that front was very small.
In which case you have larger problems then just the porkers.
Then again I suppose it could happen on these small outdated maps.
All the more reason for more larger maps so as to create a wider front:)
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"the true suicide porker while he exists is rare. FAR more rare then they have been made out ot be on the BBS."
Baloney. They were a malady, a bonified disease in the MA. And it seems that HTC finally found a partial cure.
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Originally posted by Westy
"the true suicide porker while he exists is rare. FAR more rare then they have been made out ot be on the BBS."
Baloney. They were a malady, a bonified disease in the MA. And it seems that HTC finally found a partial cure.
Pure and utter nonsence.
What you were seeing or I most of the time was feild ack and manned ack if not killing em outright, doing enough damage to a plane to make it uncontrolable thus causing the pilot to splatter into the ground. Orrr newbies or other people in a plane they werent used to comming in too fast and not being able to pull out.
Anyone who was ever new to the 38 for example and tried an air to ground attack can attest to that
It is just being perceived as an intentional suicide.
I know. I WAS one of those porkers. And I knew more then a few of them. I Never ever suicided intentionally and I know of VERY few people that did.
And I know on a ton of occasions on my dive ack would nail me on the way in and do such damage to the AC that I would either blow up, or crash. Quite unintentionally.
Do they exist? Sure. I know that as fact also. But nowhere near in the numbers they are accused of.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ya... and it appears to have worked ~reaaally~ well. :rolleyes:
Oh and BTW the reason they didnt work as well as hoped was that we actually put planes in the air to actually stop them.
something few people can be bothered with here.
Its like he old joke.
"How many women does it take to change a broken lightbulb?
None. They'd rather just sit in the dark and whine about it
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What you were seeing or I most of the time was feild ack and manned ack if not killing em outright, doing enough damage to a plane to make it uncontrolable thus causing the pilot to splatter into the ground.
Westy, Keep WHELS out of the manned ack and there will be lots less of what you think are suicide porkers. That guy is a menace in manned ack, and he isnt the only one, you know who i'm talkin about rthus. These guys give A2G people a bad name...lol
RHIN0
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The resets were fun, so was taking bases, gonna miss 'em both. I may be wrong, but I think they are going to be much less common now.
KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.
The rooks reset quite easily Sunday, knights were moving and taking bases last week. The biggest difference is now instead of capping a field and having some fun the land grabbers have been killing hangers right off the bat so it is even more boring to sit over a field with no fighter action. Don't know why this has changed, I think the land grabbers aren't as confident in their ability to cap so they are taking the easy way out, possibly it is also a factor of the higher fuel burn, cap guys aren't bringing enough fuel to stay long enough. Anyway, no fighter hangers means no fun to me.
As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game. The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder. I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run. I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out. The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it. I guess old habbits die hard. :aok
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Oh and BTW the reason they didnt work as well as hoped was that we actually put planes in the air to actually stop them.
something few people can be bothered with here.
Its like he old joke.
"How man women does it take to change a broken lightbulb?
None. They'd rather just sit in the dark and whine about it
Staying alive through a dive-bomb run is not a feat of greatness... even with full ack up for defense.
How is it you conclude some people cant be bothered with putting up defense, while defending the position of doing everything you can to discourage anyone from taking off? (porking fuel). HOW does porking fuel really even fit in?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
How hard to deal it isn't an issue. If theres any plane that needs to be balanced out, the first one is logically the P-51D.
Although the P-51D is the most hyped plane on Earth, and like others have said it'd be near impossible to see it perked, even if it needs to be.
Get your hands out of my pocket!
Bring back the un-perked C-Hog! :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.
The rooks reset quite easily Sunday, knights were moving and taking bases last week. The biggest difference is now instead of capping a field and having some fun the land grabbers have been killing hangers right off the bat so it is even more boring to sit over a field with no fighter action. Don't know why this has changed, I think the land grabbers aren't as confident in their ability to cap so they are taking the easy way out, possibly it is also a factor of the higher fuel burn, cap guys aren't bringing enough fuel to stay long enough. Anyway, no fighter hangers means no fun to me.
As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game. The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder. I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run. I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out. The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it. I guess old habbits die hard. :aok
Gotta agree with ya there on the killing fh's thing, it does make it boring as heck, I think thats why I've been spending more time in the gv's. I remember when everyone used to gripe about that when it happened, now nobody says a thing it seems like.
I guess I was thinking it was harder to capture bases because I haven't been on many successful capture attempts lately. As a squad, the Fokkers used to roll em pretty quick when we wanted to, then again, a lot of the squad hasn't been on lately. So there are probably other dynamics going on I'm not taking into account.
Last night, when the knits were down to 2 fields was the most fun I've had in awhile, especially the 3 way at 27. Of course dropping a (1) bomb at v6 and getting 4 kills was kinda cute too.
Well I guess furball's the name of the game now, I've gotta get some skills at it. See, I suck at furballs because to kill I have to commit to a chase, I've never been good at bnz, or slash, or distance gunning or snapshots. I have to be at 300 or less and on your 6. So what usually ends up happening is I commit in the furball to chasing somebody through it and somebody else drops in on me. Either that or I keep my 6 clear and don't get any good opportunities to shoot. I also have trouble getting with the "grain" of the fight, if you know what I mean, it always seems to be going against me. I think I drop into the FB with too much speed or something.
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LOL rgr that KJ,
It does seem that there was a little lag before the building battlers got their stuff together. I think they just needed to get used to the new layouts etc. Seems they are well on their way tho.
As for FurBalling,
I found I was doing the same thing when I started going into FBs. I too would get a possible solution and then end up chasing that one guy and not checking my six enough.
For me the trick was to take a shot if it came and forget about the ones that got away keeping an eye on my six, pulling off of the a guy if another is diving on me. This way I would stay alive longer and have more of a chance to get back into a position to get some kills. Patience in kaos is how I describe endurance in a furball. The spit V is a great teacher, but you have to take it to where your outnumbered cause you aren't going to catch anyting in it lol. I'm no expert, it's just what worked for me.
Being good at reversals also helps, it takes a little while and a lot of dying till you get decent at it, ( at least it did for me lol and like I said I'm no expert) but it is an invaluable and addictive technique. Wildthing has some great films of this and there are some great discussions on it as well. It takes some nerve at first, you really have to let the guy get up on your six and be able to judge his closure speed well, but sooner or later you'll get the feeling and know when he has a shot and when your angle is just enough that he doesn't have the shot. Then a few jinks and you are either in a rolling scisors, diving away or he goes past you and whammo, he's dead.
Beware tho, once you get the taste of successful furball blood, it's all over. :D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Hi 6Guns.
Yup agree, totally.
Not being able to attrit the enemas resources is totally stupid.
2x fuel burn on a P51 still goes a long, long way. So if the idea was to balnce the never less than 75% fuel availability - it doesn't work. It only kills short legged fighters.
nopoop I agree with a few things, but - I like flying the short legged fighters. Why should any class of planes be 'penalised' to allegedly help the gameplay, which IMHO it isn't.
Actually thinking about it, if HT wants to make it a furball only game get rid of all strats, towns, HQ, etc etc. As 6Guns said buffs have a limited use since this (cough) innovation.
Hiya Kev.
In the link below you find a discussion breaks out on the Subject you are refering to. It was very interesting as well as eyeopening and a little iritating too. :D Never the less I think it may blow you mind. http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119379&referrerid=7566Here are some clips from the thread.
Originally posted by Hornet
end the landgrab.
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Why? Isnt that what the game is about?
Originally posted by Zazen13
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the fundamental underlying premise of the game "Aces" "HIGH" is a combat flight simulator using WW2 era aircraft. If land grabbing were the underlying premise it might be called "Global" "Conquest" or something. THe land grabbing aspect just provides a context for the perpetuation of the airiel conflict, nothing more.
The land grabbing is just a means to the end, the end being the airiel combat. That is why maps come and go, bases come and go, but the fighting remains largely the same and continues in basically the same form without interuption ad infinitum.
Zazen
Originally posted by Mugzeee
So your basing your opinion on the "Name" of the game? I mean really. To think AH is a product that was specifically and only designed for Virtual Fighter “Aces” to duel or furball seems silly to me.
Seems like a ton of work that HTC has went through to accomplish the "means" you speak of. Eeee gads man, just make a map with 2 bases and Duke it out. On the contrary, i am more inclined to believe they had much more in mind. They added Bombers to the game along with a complex strategic re-supply system. Factories, Cities, Convoy's, trains, and anything else i may have forgotten to include. Oh yes, there are (Tank’s) Did I say Tank’s? Hmmm don’t see how (Tanks) fit in “airiel combat”. They developed a World "WAR" Two simulator. Intentionally or not they developed a War Sim nonetheless. I think the developers had a larger audience in mind. They developed a game that would draw from at least two mindsets or interests. WWII wana be Fighter “Aces”, and those that would like to be a little more in depth with the WAR game. Therefore the "end" of the "means" is $$$$$$. And that is marketing savvy. A thoughtful approach would have to conclude that AH1 or AH2 is a WAR sim by design. Which of course includes both types of players. Land Grab is here to stay. And actually is what the game is all about as per design.
PS. I still think that HTC should create an Arena strictly for Dog Fighting. This way the debate would end. And the "Aces" could really prove their metal against other "Aces" Not against Bombers and Heavy-laden fighters trying to dive on a ground target. However, the crying would still continue. Because the "Aces" would complain that there aren’t enough noobs to pad their score. :D
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Taken from HTC Home Page:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High fidelity air combat is the heart of Aces High
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all the rest was an after thought........
Originally posted by MadSquirrel
MadSquirrel
Hold the bus!
Lets read the rest of that quote:
High fidelity air combat is the heart of
Aces High, but it doesn't end there. In addition to
flying a multitude of aircraft types, players can
also man vehicles, boats, amphibs, gun batteries,
and ships.
Hello ! ! ! Seems to me that there was more in mind than just air combat.
You don't need Gun Batteries or Vehicles to air dual now do you.
LTARsqrl
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Originally posted by mars01
KJ - resets are just as easy or difficult as in AHI MA.
As for Dred, Suicide porkers are the worst form of the game. The fact that you are defending them here makes me wonder. I have seen more guys drop their ord and then plow into something rather than fight, more than I've seen guys run. I rarely ever see a Building battler fight it out. The funny thing now is they have little affect and they still do it. I guess old habbits die hard. :aok
Im not defendng the intentional suiciders. I look at them with the same distain as the rest of you. You wanna pork a feild and then fight it out till you can either RTB or die as I do fine.
You wanna pork a feild then run away, Fine.
Porking then INTENTIONALLY augering is classless not to mention dweeby.
But, As one who has porked a feild or two I am saying that the intentional suicidie porker exists in far less numbers then what they are made out to be.
And what I am pointing out is whats really happening in the majority of the perceived suicide porker cases.
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But, As one who has porked a feild or two I am saying that the intentional suicidie porker exists in far less numbers then what they are made out to be.
Thats true ... but it didn't lessen the impact and damage that just a few dweebs could dish out. The other half of the problem was the imbalance of fuel porking and trying to get it back up.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Staying alive through a dive-bomb run is not a feat of greatness... even with full ack up for defense.
For those experianced enough in it your right. Other factors also come into play.
In my experiance I have learned this
The fewer the people attacking the lower your chances are for surviving.
the less planes in the attack the less planes there are for feild ack to concentrate on.
The amount of passes you make on a base will lower your chances for survival
Also depends on direction of your flight path.
There are certain attack paths you can take that are for lack of a better term, "suicidal"
example on AH1 Medium feilds if you came in to attack the feild from the SSE you were almost assured of being shot down on the way in.
I first noticed this when flying with my squad one of the guy kept getting nailed on the way in using his assigned attack path.
Couple weeks later I was on this same path and kept getting nailed time after time. always on the way in. each time I used this direction of approach I would get nailed on the way in and at different bases too.
And this wasnt from a feild gunner but from auto feild ack.
Point is some approaches are far safer ad more survivable then others.
The trick is in knowing which is which
Also feild gunners. some of these guys as was mentioned a couple posts ago can gun with uncanny accuracy.
and for some unexplainable reason, some folks just seem to be flak magnets. no matter what they do Acl or flak just seems to nail them.
On another thread I saw folks complaining about the Flak (puffy black kind) and how accurate it was and how it managed to shoot them down so much. Now I pretty much ignore the puffy black ack as I couldnt even tell you the last time it pinged me let alone shot me down. But there we have people complaining how it always nails them.
And there are others who never seem to get hit by either kind and manage to fly perfectly straight lines through it time and again and not get so much as a scratch.
I've seen this a bunch of times at CV's
I personally consider myself VERY lucky if I can make a diving run on a CV and manage to get close enough to the CV to drop,let alone come out alive.
Yet I have seen others make several passes on a CV with perfect impunitity
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Originally posted by Tumor
How is it you conclude some people cant be bothered with putting up defense, while defending the position of doing everything you can to discourage anyone from taking off? (porking fuel). HOW does porking fuel really even fit in?
Because you can usually see an attack comming. All you have to do is keep an eye on the map, and/or pay attentiong to the warning given by other players.
Also if your upping alot of planes on a base capture attempt, you can or could I should say, pretty much bet that weeks paycheck your base is a prime candidate for a baseporking counter attack.
Fact of the matter is there are VERY few people who would/will bother to up planes to stop the pork attacks.
Easily 90% of the successful attack runs I've made are met with with zero people in the way to stop me. till Im well into my run.
Lately though there are a few that seem to have grown brains and get the point that porkers can be stopped and on more then 1 occasion I have met with resistance causing me at eh very least to drop my ord for the fight.
Im not doing everything I can to prevent people form taking off.
Only the hoards.
Unless it was part of squad ops I only porked the fuel where the hoards wre comming from.
My targets of first choice was Barracks and ammo. as that let the furballers furball without leaving open the threat of a capture.
It would also thwart the attempts of small ops intent of feild capture as they typically lacked the resources cap a feild long enough to to drive a goon in from two bases back.
Only when I saw hoards up did I change my target priority to fuel as that was the only thing that actually stopped them or at the veryleast slowed em down
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I have to agree that most augers on ground attacks are unintentional, especially since I usually see them after embarrassingly bad attack runs. Maybe we notice the "suicide" more because its so freakin' annoying to ty to defend a base that's suddenly become undefendable with the loss of fuel.
And, by the way, there's a huge difference between the ordinance previously required to take out all fuel, and the amount needed to take out all FH's. At the same time, i'd argue that there's little differnce between having no planes available, and having no fuel to put in the planes. Either way, defenders can't effectively up. So I'm not sure the change makes that much difference. i do know there were many times I wanted to fly in the MA, but when I logged all front line bases were porked. I'd look at CT, hunt for a trainee, or just bag AH completely. In a combat flight sim, you OUGHT to be able to fly something....
There's something far more annoying to me than augering attackers near bases, though. Maybe I'm only seeing the still connected guy's survivor's view of a CTD, but I've seen WAY too many obviously inexperienced fliers disco when the odds turn against them. I've worked to set up a clean attack run on a trio of Buffs, I start to slash, and never get fired on -- heavily hitting. Tracers start searching as I pull out and roll over, but never quite touch me -- and next I know, no more bombers. Or, two friendlies converge on a con deep in our turf, and without a shot fired the stinker disappears so no one even gets a kill. Weenie.
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Why is everyone talking about 'suicide' porkers as if that's the only kind of player that hits a field strat? I've rarely seen a suicide dive bomber and I'm not even sure of the definition - a person that dives too fast, drops his bombs at the correct distance, hits the target and doesn't pull up? There's little to be gained in the intenional suicide - if it's intentional in the first place. What's the basis of the complaint? - people should be happy when they see these suicide guys because they will always be less accurate and less lethal than people that pull up and can make that 2nd,3rd & 4th pass.
I've clobbered alot of ground targets in this game and in WB's and I couldn't do it if I intentionally crashed on each jabo sortie.
Reducing a field to 25% fuel does not make it undefendable it prevents or at least limits the possibility of attacks coming from that field. It's well known among base grabbers that you should never pork fuel (or ord or troops) because you want the base intact.
I'm all for putting more emphasis on zone bases and the factories - maybe the refinery should have more effect on the fuel supply on the fields within that zone.
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Originally posted by Leayme
I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.
If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.
Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.
I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.
A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.
Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.
Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.
AMEN BROTHER!!!
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Why is everyone talking about 'suicide' porkers as if that's the only kind of player that hits a field strat? I've rarely seen a suicide dive bomber and I'm not even sure of the definition - a person that dives too fast, drops his bombs at the correct distance, hits the target and doesn't pull up? There's little to be gained in the intenional suicide - if it's intentional in the first place. What's the basis of the complaint? - people should be happy when they see these suicide guys because they will always be less accurate and less lethal than people that pull up and can make that 2nd,3rd & 4th pass.
If the amount of your posts are an indication of how long you have been playing Aces High, then I can understand your confusion. If not, then where have you been flying, 'cause AH I was a constant "fuel pork" ?
A suicide fuel porker will put himself into such a steep dive and pickle the load off at the last second, to avoid any confrontation on the way to target, that they are unable to pull out and promptly plant themselves into the terra firma. They will then re-up and repeat this until the job is done. Oh, and because the pickle their load at the last second, they are very accurate.
It's well known among base grabbers that you should never pork fuel (or ord or troops) because you want the base intact.
Have to agree, but 99% of the time, the base will get porked. When I flew with the MAW, the only things that went down were VH - ack - town. Once that was accomplished, and a CAP was in place, the stragglers would then continue to pork every strat on the field despite repeated request to not do it. "It's my $15 and I will shoot anything I want" was usually the reply.
I'm all for putting more emphasis on zone bases and the factories - maybe the refinery should have more effect on the fuel supply on the fields within that zone.
No were talking real strat !!!
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Originally posted by Simaril
I have to agree that most augers on ground attacks are unintentional, especially since I usually see them after embarrassingly bad attack runs. Maybe we notice the "suicide" more because its so freakin' annoying to ty to defend a base that's suddenly become undefendable with the loss of fuel.
Simaril.. Please understand that the only reason i am using your quote is that it is a common one and was here for convient use. So im not directing this towards you per se.
I get just as annoyed at the guys that claim that a base is un-defendable because said base has been fuel porked...Or for that matter the supporting base/bases have been fuel porked. It takes more time and effort to strategically attack a bases supplies than it does to fur-defend a base. Can we say CAP? (Combat Air Patrol) It seems that we have forgotten the true meaning of the Acronym. I think the general population in AH have come to understand that CAP=Vulching. The fuel whiners could sop the porking if they wanted to...or if they were wize enough to pay attention to the unrealistic inflight DAR in AH. :D By (Patrolling) the grids with formations of fighters and intercepting the incoming attacking fuel raiders. NO?
Again the fights are to be had in these situations. But they require a little more thinking and strategy than the rinse and repeat methods of the "Defenders"
So in conclusion.. Keep current fuel settings and remove in flight Dar? Or change fuel settings back to AH1 settings and keep the Crutch (in flight dar)? Might be a reasonable trade off.
Again...No disrespect intended. Just seems contradictory to me.
Salute :)
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I'm all for putting more emphasis on zone bases and the factories - maybe the refinery should have more effect on the fuel supply on the fields within that zone.
No were talking real strat !!!
Has there ever been any word from Hitech about the posibility of adding more emphasis on strat at factories to cause a greater effect on individual airfields? Manufacturing industries to effect planesets at different zones and/or bases? Unless HTC has any plans to change these things this conversation is all about nothing.
RHIN0
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Air Quake = :aok
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Has there ever been any word from Hitech about the posibility of adding more emphasis on strat at factories to cause a greater effect on individual airfields? Manufacturing industries to effect planesets at different zones and/or bases? Unless HTC has any plans to change these things this conversation is all about nothing.
TOD
can someone please define Air Quake? Preferably one of you that throws the term around so much.
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Originally posted by mars01
can someone please define Air Quake? Preferably one of you that throws the term around so much.
It's the phrase that strat-minded players throw around to denote furballing without purpose. They fail to understand that, for many players, furballing is the purpose.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Thanks Lev ruined my troll. lol:D
I think that whole analogy is stupid and like you said exemplifies the fact that they have no idea what a furball is or what to do with one.
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The fuel whiners could sop the porking if they wanted to...or if they were wize enough to pay attention to the unrealistic inflight DAR in AH. By (Patrolling) the grids with formations of fighters and intercepting the incoming attacking fuel raiders. NO?
Can't tell you how many times this has been asked and answered.
Yes it can be done, but who the hell wants to do it. For the life of me, I could not fathom flying around trying to find these porkers, if you find them at all, and then trying to take them down. Most will not dump ord and fight, they will simply nose down and scream right by you and you then have little chance of catching them.
Unless you organize (key word organize) a group of fighters (at least 10), for this objective, then most efforts are in vain. Next time your in Mugzee, call out for pilots that will fly this type of sortie for an extended period of time. Then tell us how many you got and how long did they stay on station. I would love to know the outcome.
I would bet that you would be lucky to get 5 and they would only last at least 2 sorties. With that 5, unless you are in the right place at the right time, you will be completely uneffective.
Bottom line is that fuel-porking is no longer an issue and it should remain that way. Take out all the FHs ... that's more of a challenge then throwing a couple of hundred .50 cals at a fuel bowser.
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And to add to what slap said,
That style of play, "up and patrol", is what the snapshots etc are all about. If you have ever flown one you will know that the majority of the time is spent just flying around. Now that is okay if your in a real war, there are major consequences and you need to keep the lives of others safe. But as long as were in a game, which interupts real life, then the game should maximize the action, not minimize it. Fuel porking minimizes the fight and is not needed.
The MA is for fighting, or at least it used to be. Fuel porking stops people from being able to fight. I am glad HTC has put the emphasis back into fighting.
If you want to take a base and you cant cap kill the hangers. If you want to stop the offensive kill the barracks. If you want to stop people from fighting log off.:D
The bottom line is, fuel porking was the easy way to stop a country dead in it's tracks and cause most to log off, now you building battlers have to work a little harder. Isn't the whole point of this game the challenge?
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"I've rarely seen a suicide dive bomber and I'm not even sure of the definition"
Jump in the cv guns for 5 minutes after its been spotted close to a base. Suicide buffs were a common event in AH1...Doesnt matter if you nose down the ack will almost always kill you if your low. I havent seen it as much in Ah2.
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Air Quake as defined by Dead Man Flying
It's the phrase that strat-minded players throw around to denote furballing without purpose. They fail to understand that, for many players, furballing is the purpose.
I do believe this is a correct definition. It doesnt underscore the mindless attempt at air combat. When I see a furball I stay away they are full of people who could care less to survive and land a plane with kills or without. There is H2H that can be utilized for this type of game play. Up,Die,Up,Die,Up,Die. Just as silly as suicide porkers. Yes it can be fun, just not my type of gameplay. Try and stay alive every now and then, it can be fun!
And just as fuel limits this for the furballers the current gameplay limits strat function for A2G fliers. There is no right or wrong to either side. There just needs to be a happy medium. And if TOD is what it will take to make it so be it. I will spend my time there when it comes out. I will take my lumps like a pro and look for good 1v1 or 1v2 fights. I dont care if I have to goto 25k to find them, they are there. This new gameplay has taken the goal of enemy defeat away from many.
I saw this new gamplay at its worst with the knights a few days ago when they were down to two bases. I couldnt help but think, these guys have only 2 bases, no means to resupply them, both are mostly vulched, and the bases cant be taken. This went on for hours and hours. Maybe it was reset I dont know I had to leave. It was just silly gameplay. Smart move on the rook part for keeping a knit base behind lines but still silly gameplay with the inability to take the fields and make the map more playable for all.
I have lost 3 senior squad members from AH2 in the last week. It is really impacting the community. I have a couple of more that are saying they are thinking about leaving also. If this mentality of furball only "Air Quake" gameplay is going to be the norm then so be it. I will still find my fights elsewhere, just not the style that I enjoy the most.
RHIN0
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When I see a furball I stay away they are full of people who could care less to survive and land a plane with kills or without. There is H2H that can be utilized for this type of game play. Up,Die,Up,Die,Up,Die. Just as silly as suicide porkers. Yes it can be fun, just not my type of gameplay.
So you don't care that your assumption is completely wrong. Like you said you stay as far away from furballs as you can, so how can you know what they are and what the purpose is. The fact that you say "they are full of people who could care less to survive and land a plane with kills" is complete BS. Anyone worth their salt wants to land kills, especially when you went into the snake pit took a few scalps and got out. The goal of a furball is to survive. The fact that it takes a lot of skill, good SA and a little luck to do so does not mean that people do not care if they die. You are completely wrong in this assumption.
As for H2H being for Furballing, well offline is perfect for dropping bombs, if you want to follow that logic. The MA is for everyone. Building battlers and Furballers alike. The old fuel model stopped furballs. The new fuel model does not affect your ability to bomb buildings in any other way except now you might have to fight a little more to do it.
Try and stay alive every now and then, it can be fun!
No offense, but try not to assume you have a clue what other people like or do. I am a building battler, turned furballer cause killing stationary targets put me to sleep, night after night after night. I expect to live from every furball I enter and land kills.
I saw this new gamplay at its worst with the knights a few days ago when they were down to two bases. I couldnt help but think, these guys have only 2 bases, no means to resupply them, both are mostly vulched, and the bases cant be taken. This went on for hours and hours.
I don't get the problem, what has changed from AH1 that caused this. What is the new game play? This was always the case just before a reset in AH1 as well. That is what is so stupid about resets having to capture all the bases. Once a country is down to less than fice base, or all the troops and supplies are dead across the country the map should be reset. Forcing people to play in this scenario is just plain stupid and the worst part of the win the war BS.
I have lost 3 senior squad members from AH2 in the last week. It is really impacting the community. I have a couple of more that are saying they are thinking about leaving also. If this mentality of furball only "Air Quake" gameplay is going to be the norm then so be it. I will still find my fights elsewhere, just not the style that I enjoy the most.
What mentality of furball only. Are you telling me you and your late squad members could not capture bases in AHII? How is the choice to furball impacting your choice to land grab. Furballs do not erupt at ever base at the same time. Go the other way grab the bases where the furball isn't and if its down to a few bases, what are you saying the country sholdn't put up a defense. Winning the war has nothing to do with anything other than who has the most players and where they are all concentrated. If you don't have numerical supremacy and the country you are attacking is condensed to two fields what do you expect?
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I saw this new gamplay at its worst with the knights a few days ago when they were down to two bases. I couldnt help but think, these guys have only 2 bases, no means to resupply them, both are mostly vulched, and the bases cant be taken. This went on for hours and hours
Heheh, I was there, GREAT FIGHTS.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The fuel whiners could sop the porking if they wanted to...or if they were wize enough to pay attention to the unrealistic inflight DAR in AH. By (Patrolling) the grids with formations of fighters and intercepting the incoming attacking fuel raiders. NO?
Can't tell you how many times this has been asked and answered.
Yes it can be done, but who the hell wants to do it. For the life of me, I could not fathom flying around trying to find these porkers, if you find them at all,
I have to disagree as any reasononable person would. Finding them is very easy...as well as very quickly done. Just as quick as getting into a furball.. Unless of course your refering to the furballs 6 or 8 miles or closer to a base. You know...the furballs that occur at or near a base that is was or is going to be under attack? If this is you...then Fuel porkers dont hurt your game much at all.
I have flow entire Patrol Missions to hunt for porkers Many many times. Its Fun Its as Fast as you want it to be And its Effective. The object isnt to fly around and wait. The object is to watch the Dar.... spot the attacking mission. Get your Spit V landed, and re-up one of the interceptor AirCraft from the planeset and fly to the fun. Originally posted by SlapShot
and then trying to take them down. Most will not dump ord and fight, they will simply nose down and scream right by you and you then have little chance of catching them.
A few thoughts come to mind here.
First....you must not be flying the proper aircraft for intercept.
Might i recomend the following
P51D, 109g10, 190d9, La7 for short range. I know you fly the P38 a lot. This is a great interceptor with a little Alt to start. Its a great diver although you have to manage it's speed carefully thru the High Alt to Low alt transistion. Once its lower in the dive...It is one of the fastest planes in the shallow dive AH has to offer. The Spit V isnt going to cut the mustard. Leave it in the hanger on these missions.
Any ride with good to better excelleration will do the job
Secondly.Your Posistioning and timeing must be off a little.
Just have to plan ahead to build speed and angle to cut em off.
Thirdly. Most do indeed dump ord.
Fourthly. The ones dedicated to the mission try their best to get the original mission completed. And they do try to hold Ord. But most dont.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Unless you organize (key word organize) a group of fighters (at least 10), for this objective, then most efforts are in vain. Next time your in Mugzee, call out for pilots that will fly this type of sortie for an extended period of time. Then tell us how many you got and how long did they stay on station. I would love to know the outcome.
We usally have 15 to 20 pilots sometimes even more when we fly this type of mission. Or any other mission type for that matter. Some times we will break into 2 or even 3 flights. and cover several hot spots.
Having an organized squadron has its benifits.
Originally posted by SlapShot
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Bottom line is that fuel-porking is no longer an issue and it should remain that way. Take out all the FHs ... that's more of a challenge then throwing a couple of hundred .50 cals at a fuel bowser.
That is your opinion. But i wouldnt hold my breath. I see a need for it to change. Hangers are no more a challange than fuel bunkers..just a bigger target that needs a little more tonage.
:)
Originally posted by mars01
And to add to what slap said,
That style of play, "up and patrol", is what the snapshots etc are all about. If you have ever flown one you will know that the majority of the time is spent just flying around. .
I appears that you would imply that Flying a Patrol in the MA is the same as flying a Patrol in the Snapshot event.
Apples to Oranges. Thats wayy off target sir.
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Like you said you stay as far away from furballs as you can, so how can you know what they are and what the purpose is
This is an assumption on your part that I have never participated in furballs. Well I have, thats why I stay away. SA is key of course but fly a high alt orbit around one....watch the guys go in, die. over and over again, yes some make it out, most dont.
Anyone worth their salt wants to land kills, especially when you went into the snake pit took a few scalps and got out.
And you dont think this applies to "building battlers?". The ones you call suicide dweebs? Sure they (furballers) want to land but alot of them just dont care if they land or not, its all about the next kill.
I expect to live from every furball I enter and land kills.
Mars1 you are an exception to the rule. I have fought against you in the MA and respect your abilities greatly. I had a very memorable night in a hellcat against you. I would expect you would want to live just as I do when I am hitting a strat to slow an overwhelming numbered enemys advance. I dont just hit an airfield because its there, it takes planning and a few brave airmen. These are just two opposing viewpoints.
What mentality of furball only. Are you telling me you and your late squad members could not capture bases in AHII? How is the choice to furball impacting your choice to land grab.
It isnt the furball only that is causing the loss. It is the inability to slow the hordes. Only the furball is now the option for play, unless you have a huge number of fighters to throw back at the enemy. But alas they are all in the furball, and we are getting rolled. So in frustration of not wanting to furball all the time, I am losing squadmates. It isnt just because of the change in gameplay, there are other factors, but this one does weigh heaviest in there eyes.
Mars1...we could go around all day about this one, it is just two opposing viewpoints that will prob never be able to be worked out. I respect your opinions and you as a pilot and person....
RHIN0
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I appears that you would imply that Flying a Patrol in the MA is the same as flying a Patrol in the Snapshot event.
How so Mugz? No disrespect. You said get some guys together and patrol. How is it going to be any different from a snapshot?
Kev,
I guess my point is that there are suicide dweeb JABOs and suicide dweeb Furballers, but I think the majority of the players are concerned with making it out. Thats why when people call furballing Quake With Wings, I don't see the comparison. All the analogies between Quake and Furballing can also be made between Quake and JABO. I really don't think any aspect of this game compares to any aspect of Quake. I know it is just a cheap shot at the furballers.
Mars1 you are an exception to the rule. I have fought against you in the MA and respect your abilities greatly. I had a very memorable night in a hellcat against you.
Thanks, as I have the same respect for you and your abilities. I hope my earlier post did not come off differently. Again tho, I think the guys that don't care to live are more of the exception.
Personally I think the only way to slow the horde is to throw another one at it. With these kind of numbers and no real direction there is not much else that can be done. The fuel porking didn't really stop the horde it just changed the place they uped from and stoped the fighting in that area.
I agree we have different views I respect that
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Originally posted by mars01
How so Mugz? No disrespect. You said get some guys together and patrol. How is it going to be any different from a snapshot?
Its about 350 to 500 players different at times.
Meaning it is much easier to find the action in the MA on this type of mission.
Originally posted by mars01
The fuel porking didn't really stop the horde it just changed the place they uped from and stoped the fighting in that area.
It depends on the game you play. For me the
idea of attacking feild strat has many faces. Some times fuel porking is to move the front back 25 miles to make way for the eventual capture of the imediate front base. Some time it is to slow the NME attack so the re-supply can have time to take effect on a badly damaged freindly base. And allow our country to get some kinda footing when the NME Outnumbers us by a large margine. Thats Of course this is just the tip of the ice berg. But you get the idea.
So yes it does just change where the NME ups from. Which is exactly what i want them to do in some cases. Just another strategy. While i know this Bugs the hell outa some ppl. It is part of the game HTC has created. Its part of the game i love. I also love furballing and 1v1s 2v2 1v2 and so on. In Ah1 is was a pretty good stick. Although i do tend to have Ups and Downs. I just feel that the changes that are in AH2 are un-waranted IMO. Thats all. :)
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I guess mugz, you could achieve the same affects killing the FHs.
Yeah it's a little more difficult and it takes more of a conserted effort, but when something removes a whole type of game play, it should take a large effort to do.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I have to agree that most augers on ground attacks are unintentional, especially since I usually see them after embarrassingly bad attack runs. Maybe we notice the "suicide" more because its so freakin' annoying to ty to defend a base that's suddenly become undefendable with the loss of fuel.
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Simaril.. Please understand that the only reason i am using your quote is that it is a common one and was here for convient use. So im not directing this towards you per se.
I get just as annoyed at the guys that claim that a base is un-defendable because said base has been fuel porked...Or for that matter the supporting base/bases have been fuel porked
Thanks, Mugzee, for your gentleness with a new guy on the Board. But, while I understand what you are saying, I guess I gotta remnind you that not everybody has been playing combat sims since AW-1 [when it cost $20 a minute and guys had to fly uphill on both ingress and egress ;) ]
I'm not a noobie dweeb (at least I hope not), but I can't slow a horde by myself. If I see 1/4 fuel, it limits the planes I can up, and most importantly it limits the number of fellow MA pilots who will attempt to defend a base . Fewer defenders means I'm outnumbered, and at my skill level that means I'm very likely to die to no good effect. As in real life, i generally try to avoid that situation. Would I do it for King and Country? Probably. To pull a squaddies virtual tush out of a virtual fire? Most likely. To save a virutal piece of real estate that none of my vitual countrymen apparently care about? Probably not. You've seen the response to "Need help at 5!!" calls, too -- be honest!
So if fuel is 1/4, my ability (and the ability of many others) to base defend is limited. I can snipe at the wings, upping elsewhere and trying to intercept loners inbound to the attacked base -- but the realistic impact I'll have protecting that base is essentially nil. Low fuel bases are very difficult for average players to defend.
Guys, while the vets are heavily represented on the BBS, I think the journeymen make up the bulk of the MA crew--and the bulk of HTC's monthly subscriptions. In all you folks' plans and suggestions for improvement, leave some room for our skill level too!
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Originally posted by kevykev56
It isnt the furball only that is causing the loss. It is the inability to slow the hordes. Only the furball is now the option for play, unless you have a huge number of fighters to throw back at the enemy. But alas they are all in the furball, and we are getting rolled. So in frustration of not wanting to furball all the time, I am losing squadmates. It isnt just because of the change in gameplay, there are other factors, but this one does weigh heaviest in there eyes.
See and thats just it. I would have no complaints or problems with the current inability to pork fuel if there ws something else that could be done to slow the hordes. None zero zilch.
As it stands now this fuel situation helps out the firballers ALOT. thats cool, thewy should be able ot play the game the way they want to reguardless of how mindless some of us think it is.
the only real problem is this also helps the hordes ALOT cause now thre is no way to slow em down. Killing barracks is about as good as spitting into a 100 MPH headwind as the hordes always have more then enough people to keep a feild well capped and vulched even with all FH up for goons to come in from 2-3 complete sectors away which they often do.
If they are going to keep the current fuel situation the way it is fine But then at LEAST do something to balance out the country numbers.
Being hoarded at 10-1,2 or even 3 odds is only fun for the 10 when there is no way to effectively strike back, And when fighting back means upping only to have 4-5-6 or 7 people all pounce on you at once.
So what you gonna do? Up in a now cheap perk plane?
all that accomplishes is insread of having 4-5,6 or 7 pounce you, now you have 10-11 or 12 on you.
Wheee we have the cheap perk planes.
Does about as much good as being a lamb in a box canyon surrounded by a pack of half starved jackals.
But we have our cheap perk planes
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LOL, hop in the jet, fly to the back of the horde, pop 10-15 of them, horde stopped, problem solved.
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Slapshot -
I been in AH for 1 1/2 yrs now - I was referring to the 'suicide' dive bombing. I dive bomb quite a bit and and when someone can make multiple passes in one sortie they are going to cause more damage and be more accurate. When I'm on the other side defending I would rather see an idiot try a suicide run than multiple successful runs on my field. From what I've experienced the suicide guys are not accurate or effective.
I've been on the receiving end of a MAWs capture more than once and I appreciate a clean capture.
I'm glad to see others thinking that strats and xones should have more emphasis. I realize AH2 is still being adjusted and I look forward to more because I don't think we're there yet.
Jaxxo -
I wasn't talking cv's tj - they're a tad bigger target. Even dougie could hit one.
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Slapshot -
I been in AH for 1 1/2 yrs now - I was referring to the 'suicide' dive bombing. I dive bomb quite a bit and and when someone can make multiple passes in one sortie they are going to cause more damage and be more accurate. When I'm on the other side defending I would rather see an idiot try a suicide run than multiple successful runs on my field. From what I've experienced the suicide guys are not accurate or effective.
I've been on the receiving end of a MAWs capture more than once and I appreciate a clean capture.
I'm glad to see others thinking that strats and xones should have more emphasis. I realize AH2 is still being adjusted and I look forward to more because I don't think we're there yet.
Jaxxo -
I wasn't talking cv's tj - they're a tad bigger target. Even dougie could hit one.
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As it stands now this fuel situation helps out the firballers ALOT. thats cool, thewy should be able ot play the game the way they want to reguardless of how mindless some of us think it is.
the only real problem is this also helps the hordes ALOT cause now thre is no way to slow em down. Killing barracks is about as good as spitting into a 100 MPH headwind as the hordes always have more then enough people to keep a feild well capped and vulched even with all FH up for goons to come in from 2-3 complete sectors away which they often do.
DRED ...
When the "Horde" arrives on your doorstep, there is really nothing that one can do at the base being attacked.
The real payoff is that the "Horde" cannot send out its preemptive porkers to the surrounding bases, thereby eliminating any aggressive actions from the surrounding base. I know this kills Beet1e but that is one of the most enjoyable things in AH ... pissin' Beet1e off ... :D
There was a longstanding battle between 34 and 41 last night. It was not a "furball" (looked like one), but a true battle. This was all due to the fact that fuel could not be porked at either base. The advantage wained both ways for hours. This is what it's supposed to be like IMO.
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Originally posted by Adogg
The problem was those friggin FHs. You cannot tell me that if a base was under attack and its hangers were destroyed that any attempt to rebuild would not be instantly met with straffing runs by the circling enemy pilots.
There should be a kind of modifier that slows down the rebuilding of hangars if the base continues to be under attack. Failing that lengthen the down time for the hangers but Increase the number of troops to take the base.
Forget the modifier, give me little guys with wheel burrows running out of the tower every few minutes when a FH is down so that I can straife em. Killing them would make driving GVs a lot more fun too.
-pellik
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Forget the modifier, give me little guys with wheel burrows running out of the tower every few minutes when a FH is down so that I can straife em. Killing them would make driving GVs a lot more fun too.
That would be pretty sweet.
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DRED ...
When the "Horde" arrives on your doorstep, there is really nothing that one can do at the base being attacked.
There was a longstanding battle between 34 and 41 last night. It was not a "furball" (looked like one), but a true battle. This was all due to the fact that fuel could not be porked at either base. The advantage wained both ways for hours. This is what it's supposed to be like IMO. [/B]
I agree theer isnt much you can do once they have arrived. Well not wiht the first wave anyway.
I would study the maps and see them upping or where they were headed. Isnt a tough job figuring out what the intended target is most of the time.
So I would up and hit that base they were coming from to stop the second wave. A few pilots can a good prtion of the time hold out for a short period against the hordes initial assault. But they cant do it forever. Striking the attacking base would effectivly halt the second wave comming in attrition would eventually take care of the first wave.
I understand whatr your saying. there was a similar fight in the northwest last night. Quite enjoyable. reasonably balanced fight with the advantage changing hands several times but never quite getting to the point where it was overwhelming and if it was all like that all would be fine and dandy.
Its not those kinda fights I have the problem with. its the hordes.
You would rarely see me porking fuel at what looked to be a fair balanced fight Unless it was part of soome squad ops where I had little control over target selection. Myown personal target priority for these situations was/is always Barracks ammo and maybe dar.
You would however see me obliterating fuel and barracks and anything else I could at a base the enemy was using to up in large masses to horde
Your right a balanced struggle for bases IS the way it should be.
Which is why there is a legitimate need for a way to balance out the sides to at least reasonable numbers.
Times like sunday night horde night are at the point of being completely rediculous. And as tough as they were to stop or slow down, there were times when it was done.
Now though its impossable
And if your on the receiving end are about as much fun as laying down on an active mound of fire ants.
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First it was the dang fluffers killing hangers form 30K and then they corrected that with bombsites that had to be calibrated.
Then the suicide porkers came in and dove ,dropped their bombs and augered. Up again and repeat until they porked the fuel and anything else. Now we got hordes, 40-50 flying around nme base, all looking for the vulch. Heck, they pork my base, so what. I go fight somewhere else. I ain't got time to run resupply anyway. It ain't macho and I'm too important to waste my time like that. Iwould have checked my crystal ball for the future but the seal broke and all I could see was condensation. I could agree with most of it but sometimes I'm disagreeable. What the heck are you supposed to do if you play for the fun of it. :confused:
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Originally posted by pellik
Forget the modifier, give me little guys with wheel burrows running out of the tower every few minutes when a FH is down so that I can straife em. Killing them would make driving GVs a lot more fun too.
-pellik
hehehe
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The real payoff is that the "Horde" cannot send out its preemptive porkers to the surrounding bases, thereby eliminating any aggressive actions from the surrounding base. I know this kills Beet1e but that is one of the most enjoyable things in AH ... pissin' Beet1e off ... :D
:lol:lol
Oh well, after what's gone down on this board in the past few months, I owed you that one. :D
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The finaly blow to the porkers, at least the dweebey gamey suicdal ones, would be to do something about those frickin' deck run/dive bombing level buffs.
Well I am a Deck Running, Dive bombing, level bomber DWEEB. I have 11 year experience from AW to AHII most of it in the left seat of a B17. Why don't we just sit on the runway, engine off and wait until you can get around to killing us.
They take away our turn fight, then they make the bomb sight a nightmare to set, then they make our guns ineffective. They make a nice comfy spot 200 to 800 for fighters guys to have a picnic killing us. But since I like flying bombers, I have to adjust to the situation and find new ways of completeing my mission. So I find that I can come over a hill and yell SURPRISE!!!!!! and bomb the dickens out of you.
Look for me at a base near you, guns blazing, bombs going boom.
SKPappy
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Originally posted by SKDenny
They take away our turn fight, then they make the bomb sight a nightmare to set, then they make our guns ineffective.
SKPappy
Oh God the turnfighting 17s
I sure as hell dont miss that.
Talk about unrealistic.
first of all 17's werent supposed to be able to tunrfight in the first place.
Setting the bomsite isnt supposed to be easy. It was WAY too easy before.
Its harder now but I see quite a few people managed to be accurate enough at even 20K.
Guns inneffective?? You must be one bad shot. Or you must not get to be on the receiving end of some of the decent shots.
Cause my experiance is with even only a halfway a decent gunner behind em they are anything but ineffective
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
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Setting the bomsite isnt supposed to be easy. It was WAY too easy before.
Still simple with 2 hours of pracitce
Its harder now but I see quite a few people managed to be accurate enough at even 20K.]
Yep, I can pork ammo or gas at 22k with salvo 2 (SKpappy is an 11yr dweeb, come to me at 22k you die 1.5 out)
The whole story behind porkers & porkees now is that they can only effect each other, f'rinstance, with 12 500lb, I can kill all ammo at 3 fields with a 17 group, a whole front if I want, no eggs for them means no attack inbound 'cause the town cant be downed by a single P-47 anymore [CLUE:HORDE STOPPER].
Porkers can pork each other in the never ending building battle while fighters still fly and fight!!
I think HT finally got it right, best of each world for both worlds.