Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Red Tail 444 on June 26, 2004, 09:36:57 PM

Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Red Tail 444 on June 26, 2004, 09:36:57 PM
Does anyone recall the F20 Tigershark? if not, it was the "Mig" in Topgun.

I had a photo of it back in the 90's when I was in college,m but I cant remember what happened to it and why it was never put into full production.

Always looked like a sweet ride to me...anyway, any input would be helpful...just curious.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Sikboy on June 26, 2004, 09:46:31 PM
If I recall, it was a further development of the F-5 family of planes (which were the agressors in Top Gun).

As far as I can tell, there just wasn't any mission for the F-20. I don't remember why it didn't excell as an export fighter, but I thought there was some contraversy.

I once did some translation work for one of the Program pilots who was going over to Russia to get himself a Russian bride lol.

-Sik
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: J_A_B on June 26, 2004, 09:47:40 PM
The Topgun "migs" were F-5's,which are the predecessor of the F-20.  The F-5 is a lightweight twin-engine fighter.

There were only a few F-20's ever made.  The F-20 was an updated model of the F-5 with a single engine (the same type of engine that the F-15 and F-16 have) and better electronics.  Chuck Yeager was a well-known proponent of the F-20; he liked it because of its superb maneuverability and pointability in A2A combat.   The USAF stuck with the F-16 instead.


Edit:  MY bad....it shared the same powerplant as the F-18

J_A_B
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Guppy35 on June 27, 2004, 12:36:48 AM
Monogram made a 1/48th Scale model of the F20 way back when.  Not a bad kit at all.

It showed up in commercials with Yeager after it was turned down by the AF.  I think it was a company funded program too.

Dan/Slack
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: GScholz on June 27, 2004, 01:14:51 AM
The F-20 had the same engine as the F-18, not the F-15/16. Yes it was a company funded program like the F-5 was. The F-20 program sank Northrop in the military aircraft market.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: DiabloTX on June 27, 2004, 01:43:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The F-20 had the same engine as the F-18, not the F-15/16. Yes it was a company funded program like the F-5 was. The F-20 program sank Northrop in the military aircraft market.


So why did the genius's at Northrup even develop the F-20 if there was no clear objective or payoff for all the work invested?  Pretty stupid if you ask me.  But you didn't so who really cares.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Mathman on June 27, 2004, 02:46:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
So why did the genius's at Northrup even develop the F-20 if there was no clear objective or payoff for all the work invested?  Pretty stupid if you ask me.  But you didn't so who really cares.


IIRC, the F-20 was primarily designed for the export market to compete with the F-16.  Depending on what you believe, it was better in almost all respects to the F-16, but GD and the US government kind of did a Microsoft and forced friendly nations to buy the F-16 instead.

I don't know if that is true or not, but you never know.  Not a big deal to me if it is or not.  Kind of fits the mold though.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Tony Williams on June 27, 2004, 03:06:02 AM
When it was first planned the F-20 was known as the F-5G and was intended to incorporate the minimum changes needed to accept the new engine, so that older F-5 could be converted. By the time development was complete, there were so many changes that this was no longer possible. So bang went one possible market.

The F-20 was then in direct competition with the F-16, but the F-16 had the overwhelming advantage of having been bought by the US Government, so everyone wanted that instead. No-one wanted the risk of being the launch customer for a new aircraft like the F-20.

Pity really, it would have introduced an interesting new gun, the 'Tigerclaws', developed from the M39 to be much lighter and faster-firing.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 27, 2004, 03:12:48 AM
There's one sitting on the ramp at torance's airport, Los Angeles. (Or used to 2 years ago, I doubt they moved it).
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: gripen on June 27, 2004, 03:48:06 AM
IIRC Northrop actually designed the YF-17 to compete with the F-16. Later  McDonnell Douglas joined project (and actually took it all over) and the result was the F-18. The F-20 was Northrops's private venture project aimed for export market to replace huge number of F-5s serving around the world. AFAIK USAF never planned to buy it; at the time F-20 prototype flew, the F-16 was allready chossen for the USAF.

gripen
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 27, 2004, 09:46:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tony Williams

The F-20 was then in direct competition with the F-16, but the F-16 had the overwhelming advantage of having been bought by the US Government, so everyone wanted that instead. No-one wanted the risk of being the launch customer for a new aircraft like the F-20.

Pity really, it would have introduced an interesting new gun, the 'Tigerclaws', developed from the M39 to be much lighter and faster-firing.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)


This is what I remember reading about it at the time. Was like 20 something years ago wasnt it?

I remember Yeager being quoted as saying he liked it better then the F-16 saying about it.
"The F-20 is the most advanced fighter I ever flew"
Another plus I remember reading about it at the time was it was easier to maintain then the F-16 and could scramble and get airborn faster. That is go from hanger to in the air in it was something like half the tie of the F-16.
For whatever reason the military decided on the F-16 instead. which was plagued with wiring problems and even grounded for a while in its frst few years in service.
least thats what I remember.

If nothing else it was one sharp looking aircraft

(http://www.geocities.com/big_man1977/F-20.jpg)
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Bodhi on June 27, 2004, 11:06:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The F-20 had the same engine as the F-18, not the F-15/16. Yes it was a company funded program like the F-5 was. The F-20 program sank Northrop in the military aircraft market.


lol sunk Northrop?  lmfao

Guess you forgot this little gem that earns them a little over 1 billion a copy....  

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/514_1088352365_web_990406-f-4406b-502.jpg)


Unit cost: Approximately $1.157 billion (fiscal 98 constant dollars) so figure about 1.5 billion now.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: GScholz on June 27, 2004, 11:18:07 AM
That is not a Northrop ... that's a Northrop Grumman. The F-20 nearly bankrupted Northrop, and they were forced to merge with Grumman to survive. At least that's what I read about the development of the F-20 some years ago.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Bodhi on June 27, 2004, 11:29:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
That is not a Northrop ... that's a Northrop Grumman. The F-20 nearly bankrupted Northrop, and they were forced to merge with Grumman to survive. At least that's what I read about the development of the F-20 some years ago.


The B-2 was on the drawing boards and in preproduction long before the merger.  I followed the merger talks with great anticipation as I own a fair amount of Northrop-Grumman stock, that was all Grumman before the merger.

Ohh the B-2 first deployed in late '93 btw and the companies merged in late 94.

edited for spelling
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Red Tail 444 on June 27, 2004, 07:51:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK


If nothing else it was one sharp looking aircraft

(http://www.geocities.com/big_man1977/F-20.jpg)


Sure was...thanks for the replies everyone
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Ecliptik on June 27, 2004, 11:20:52 PM
Quote
Unit cost: Approximately $1.157 billion (fiscal 98 constant dollars) so figure about 1.5 billion now.


That cost is rather inflated, because it's an amortized per-unit cost including research and development of the technology.  If the US ordered more of them, they would have cost less, per plane, but they ended up buying a lot less than was originally planned.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: GScholz on June 28, 2004, 04:41:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
The B-2 was on the drawing boards and in preproduction long before the merger.  I followed the merger talks with great anticipation as I own a fair amount of Northrop-Grumman stock, that was all Grumman before the merger.

Ohh the B-2 first deployed in late '93 btw and the companies merged in late 94.

edited for spelling


Of course I could be wrong. Thanks for the info.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: kreighund on June 28, 2004, 09:06:53 AM
Yo guys, if you look closely at the movie the "MiGs" have twin enigines...they are F-5Es

The F-20 was killed off by the F-16 mafia....you'll find the F-20s radar used in the Taiwan's Kuo fighter.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Bodhi on June 28, 2004, 09:31:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Of course I could be wrong. Thanks for the info.


to you too.
Title: F20 Tigershark
Post by: Bodhi on June 28, 2004, 09:36:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ecliptik
That cost is rather inflated, because it's an amortized per-unit cost including research and development of the technology.  If the US ordered more of them, they would have cost less, per plane, but they ended up buying a lot less than was originally planned.


Yeah, I was wrong on that figure, it's more like 1.35 billion this year.

use this to adjust cost, it works well....

http://www.bls.gov/bls/inflation.htm