Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: paulobrien6969 on June 27, 2004, 08:50:52 AM
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i have now noticed that everytime the game stutters for me the
harddrive is at work seemingly finding something these are only 1 second bursts and seem 2 happen when i incounter new terrain.
someone has mentioned this before but i didnt consider it till now because id had no problems before patch 3 with my harddrive loading stuff. i have all proccesses closed down using enditall including firewalls and virus protection
what is my harddrive seaching for that it wasnt before?
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120857
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It is common for the hard drive to kick in from time to time during any pc usage. Answering your question? AH2 is acting like a Box game. Meaning its taxing your system in a similar way a CD game would. Reading…Loading…. Reading…Loading. Or at least the net result is the same.
In AH2's case...anytime a new texture or skin is encountered you can expect this to happen. And with the constant on slot of new skins being loaded its working double duty and there seems to be no end in sight. This beckons the question. Why should we have to "Load as we go" the textures/skins of AH2?
One has to conclude, that because the player created /submitted skins are an ongoing phenom as well as the textures have to reload every time you execute the game after your system is rebooted. Not all the textures are permanently stored on your HDD. This conclusion is based on HTC’s claim that much of the stutters are caused by new “Textures” being loaded. Unless they are meaning “Texture” is the “Skins”.
I personally think the multiple airplane skins are very suspect of AH2's current hassles, and most definitely not worth the payout (Video Mem tax) that we are being charged.
Mark my word that the multi skin environment is here to stay.
There are way too many players that are googol eyed over them for HTC to consider changing it. Personally I think it’s a waste. It can only really be appreciated while viewing it from the runway...looking out the left or right view of the cockpit or looking at a buddies plane next to you while flying in formation. In combat...forget about it...your either dead or squeezing the trigger on the NME before you are ever close enough to see the skin being dawned by the other guy. waste of resources.
Some call it emersion…I call it saturation. I guess it would be ok if we all played on 42-inch screens and the scale of the game were such that we could actually make out the colors and markings of the other planes before we were within D150 of the other plane. At D100 or less you can actually make out the Markings. Stars and Crosses ect. Sure you can see the general colors at D500 to D400.
But only generally speaking.
Like in AH1…P51D= Shiny color. P51B= Olive drab.
Without the ICON many of us would mistake a P47D25 for a P51B at first glance.
The scaled size of the aircraft in the game is just too small to get proper perspective. Note: I am not saying that the scale size isn’t proportionately modeled. Just that it doesn’t allow a large enough view to see clearly the colors and markings on our screens as clearly as we see in real life.
Go to any air show across the country. Walk up to a WW2 Aircraft and step off 100 yards from its 4 or 7 o-clock Turn and look at it.
Now step off another 100 yards and look again. You will find that it is still very easy to see the markings and the colors at 200 yards. Now watch the flybys and note the length of the runway. Use this as a gage as to how far the airplane is from your position. At 300 to 400 yards (a little less than 1/4 Mile)…it is still very distinctive and easy to see the markings and colors and profile of the aircraft.
Identifying any aircraft via its profile in AH at any reasonable distance? Forget about it.
I’m not even sure its possible to make the scaling in such a way that someone wouldn’t point that the AC is WAY out of scale in relation to the buildings and such.
On another note: GScholz
Has an idea here..But this is going dictate that the AH2 player will have to dink around with more junk. Most guys just want to log on and play. Then log Off.
AH fast becoming a program that the average guy isnt or cant deal with. There is just too many adjustments to ones system than a lot of the AH1 players cant or don't wish to fool around with. Im not talking Hardware either.
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add more main memory.
moving from 256 to 512mb will greatly improve your situation.
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Originally posted by ebgb
add more main memory.
moving from 256 to 512mb will greatly improve your situation.
This is what i did. I didnt help nearly enough.
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yes more ram is next on my list
and i agree that something that is running through my system is
now working my pc harder, harder than even a week ago
i really hope im going to get to a point soon when i can stop(just for a little while) spending money
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ive tried to use ramdisc but after reading all of the instructions
and downloading it i am still none the wiser how to use it.
talk about confusing instructions , either that or im just stupid.
i will just resort to the extra ram option and hope that works
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The use of ramdisk does need at least some knowledge of computer operation beyond typical everyday use ... still it should not be too difficult.
More ram alone won't help. The problem is that the game loads textures "on demand", and the game (or rather the whole computer) freezes while waiting for the hard drive to deliver the data. I've got one and a half gigabytes of ram, and I had the same problem before i thought about using a ram disk.
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Don't know if you have done this already, but defrag your harddrive.
Usually extended disk activity is due to file fragments being placed all over your harddrive, so when the file is accessed, the head must move all over the platter picking up the multiple pieces.
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All thru Beta and up to Patch 2 I had minimal problem with stutters or screen freezes. Since Patch 3 I've had MAJOR problems the first 30 minutes after I log on with screen freezes. I don't call them stutters, they last too long to be a stutter.
They typically happen just as I close under 600 on an enemy plane type I haven't been close to since I logged on. My plane freezes in midair for up to 8 seconds! When it starts up again the enemy plane is now somewhere behind me D 2.5.
And Lord help me if I'm near the ground. When the screen unfreezes I'm typically 1/4 second from an auger.
New maps make it even worse, or at least it seems to. When I logged on for the first evening of Mindanao, I was totally frustrated. I couldn't get near an enemy plane without freezes. After 45 minutes of frustration, it finally goes away, but too many missed kills and ground augers to make it worth it.
I found a work around that helps. When I log on, I find an air base that is extremely active. I jump in a mannable field ack as close to the runway as possible. Aim the ack at the closest place that planes fly by, then AFK to my deck for a couple of beers. I let my absent ack man deal with all the screenfreezes each time a new plane type or skin goes by. Thirty minutes later my video memory used has climbed from 28 MBs to 70 and screen stutters/freezes are almost all gone.
This is especially good if there are some GVs around. Otherwise the first time you dive on a GV for an attack, when the GV loads you get a screen freeze. Since you are pointed towards the ground when you freeze.....insta death! So now I've learned to make my first pass at GVs while flying level just above them so the inevitable first skin load won't kill me.
Once all the planes are cached, my system works great. No complaints about FPS or anything once the freezes are over with.
I agree with Mugzee, the load skins as you need them is a major handicap. Some other system needs to be used.
One possible solution, have an optional button that I can hit after I log on that loads all the planes, GVs, and skins at once. Even if it takes 3 -4 minutes, that's far better than frustrating attacks and pointless deaths because of the current screen freeze method.
Celeron 1.4, 384 RAM, FX-5200 Ultra, Win 98se, Sounblaster Live DX-9 sound acceleration 3/4.
I've tried DX-9 Sound acceleration set to Full, 3/4, and 1/2 (Basic). The sound acceleration has no effect one way or the other with my screen freezes.
I also defrag my computer Hard Drive after each patch or new map load. It doesn't help.
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Originally posted by paulobrien6969
ive tried to use ramdisc but after reading all of the instructions
and downloading it i am still none the wiser how to use it.
talk about confusing instructions , either that or im just stupid.
i will just resort to the extra ram option and hope that works [/QUOTE
Ramdisk xp is very stable and easy to use, but since you need 300 to 400 megs to run AH2 from it you must have a minium of 1 gig of ram to get good results.]
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MOSQ: Thanks for the detailed report. Ronnie used to have a simalar thing happen. We updated her sound drivers and the long pause went away.
Also with patch 3 we became more memory intesive to try make hard drive access less. Still debating how to balance things out,
My current thinking is to have a few more configuration options for hold texture in memory, release texture if not in use, and a preload all option.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
My current thinking is to have a few more configuration options for hold texture in memory, release texture if not in use, and a preload all option.
Yes! Choices.
I'd love and use the preload all as I have loads of ram, both system and vid, that is currently left untouched by AH2.
I've had a few hiccups, but they're rare on my system.
AMD Athlon 2400+ XP
Nvidia Geforce FX5900 Ultra 256Mb
1,5 Gigs ram
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Preload "all" would be a GREAT option.
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I "vote" for an all textures/skins preload option too!
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MOSQ: That option with your system specs would make you studder worse. Right now your seeing studders because I am preloading most textures ,DX9 then manages the swap out (this was the change in patch 3) from system to video memory, and it is causing you to run out of ram.
I belive the low mem condition is fairly nasty to the 256 meg users.
Pryor to patch 3 I did not keep a copy of the texture in system memory around.
MOSQ: For a test set max texture size to 256, play for at least 30 mins and see if most of your problems go away.
P.S.
Im realy starting to hate trying to shove 10Lbs of stuff in a 5lb box.
HiTech
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HTC,
Thanks for the explanation. I guess what I was looking for was a way to pre-load my video RAM. I have 128MBs on my vid card. When I login it reports about 28-30 MBs of memory used. I know from experience now that until it gets up to 70+ used, I'm going to have studders. I've never seen it above 75 used.
As I recall prior to patch 3 I would start at about 60 or 65 used, and again by 70+ my stutters were gone.
Is it possible to preload the video memory as an option?
Would increasing my system RAM help? I'll see if I can run one of those memory tracking programs in the background to document when my system runs out of RAM. Any suggested programs whose output would be useful to you?
I'll give your 256 texture suggestion a try tonight.
"P.S.
Im realy starting to hate trying to shove 10Lbs of stuff in a 5lb box. "
I feel for you. Your company has taken a big leap forward with the new graphics engine. I'm sorry I just can't afford to buy a 10lb box right now.
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Originally posted by hitech
Im realy starting to hate trying to shove 10Lbs of stuff in a 5lb box.
HiTech
But some people is starting to hate to have spent lots of money for a 15lbs box for shoving 2 lbs of stuff in it ;)
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I'll put in a vote for a 'preload all' option.
One question though - how much mem will be required using a 'preload all' option (roughly)?
Thanks
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Originally posted by MOSQ
Celeron 1.4, 384 RAM, FX-5200 Ultra, Win 98se, Sounblaster Live DX-9 sound acceleration 3/4.
I've tried DX-9 Sound acceleration set to Full, 3/4, and 1/2 (Basic). The sound acceleration has no effect one way or the other with my screen freezes.
I also defrag my computer Hard Drive after each patch or new map load. It doesn't help.
Similar system to mine. Please tell me how you have ground detail, object size etc set up.
-WMLute
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Originally posted by MOSQ
Celeron 1.4, 384 RAM, FX-5200 Ultra, Win 98se, Sounblaster Live DX-9 sound acceleration 3/4.
I've tried DX-9 Sound acceleration set to Full, 3/4, and 1/2 (Basic). The sound acceleration has no effect one way or the other with my screen freezes.
I also defrag my computer Hard Drive after each patch or new map load. It doesn't help.
Similar system to mine. Please tell me how you have ground detail, object size etc set up.
-WMLute
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Originally posted by MOSQ
Celeron 1.4, 384 RAM, FX-5200 Ultra, Win 98se, Sounblaster Live DX-9 sound acceleration 3/4.
I've tried DX-9 Sound acceleration set to Full, 3/4, and 1/2 (Basic). The sound acceleration has no effect one way or the other with my screen freezes.
I also defrag my computer Hard Drive after each patch or new map load. It doesn't help.
Similar system to mine. Please tell me how you have ground detail, object size etc set up.
-WMLute
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HTC,
I ran Sys Mon in the background last night with no changes to the texture size. You are correct, my available system physical memory goes right to zero with AHII Patch 4, then may increase to at most 10-20 MBs, but gets drawn down to zero constantly.
For whatever reason, the stutters weren't as bad as the previous evenings. My uninformed guess is that the old island map last night has fewer and less complicated textures than Mindanao? Does that make sense?
Towards the end of the evening I switched to 256 textures and did very limited testing. It worked fine.
Today I just logged on for about 30 minutes on Baltic map. I noticed from a fresh boot that in the tower I showed only 19.8 MBs of Video memory used. That's the lowest I've ever seen in AHII. System was still set to 256, no stutters at all, even starting first thing at a base under heavy attack with a furball right there. Video memory used climbed to about 32 MBs before I logged. I wasn't running SYS Mon, but I will tonight to see if I am constantly out of system physical memory with the 256 setting.
I couldn't tell any difference in the graphics between 256 and 512 textures. What does the change between 1024, 512, 256, make?
Flyingaround, I'm back at work so I can't tell you off hand where they are set exactly. I experiment a lot, but I think they are about mid way right now on all 3 sliders.
If you don't already, it helps a lot with FPS to hit Shift F3 when you are near the ground in a furball with smoke from buildings ect. The rest of the time I use Shift F1 or F2.
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Now I think I know why I get stutters, most of the time they are just annoying, but when they happen just as you are lining up a shot (which happens at least once or more a night), you get really annoyed :(
I have 1 GB of RAM, and I defragged my drive the other day, but not since we upgraded AH2 the last time.
I personally would like to see a setting where we could have default only skins. That would give low end machine users better performance if they select default skins only. It would also still allow lots of eye candy for those who want it.
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Switching to 256 textures has fixed my stutters completely.
Running real smooth again, in fact better than ever in AHII.
There's still an occasional micro second hesitation, but it's totally fine, no complaints now.
When I login in the tower I'm starting with 19.5 MBs used video memory. After an hour or so it goes up to 35MBs and stays stable there. That leaves a lot of video memory unused on a 128 MB card.
I even enabled 2X AA, and the graphics at 256 are pretty enough for me!
Thanks HTC!
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hi again i have an extra 256mb sdram in the post
and after reading above it looks like i need it it will put me up to 512 mbsdram i also have just received a geforce fx5200 256mb card
will these help?
i will also try the 256 setting since it worked for mosq