Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on June 28, 2004, 12:33:56 AM
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'Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America
By Dean Goodman
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bush-bashing became the nation's favorite spectator sport over the weekend as Michael Moore's red-hot documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" earned more in its first three days of release across North America than his previous record-breaking movie did in its entire run.
According to studio estimates issued on Sunday, "Fahrenheit 9/11," in which Moore takes aim at President Bush, and the war in Iraq, opened at No. 1 after selling about $21.8 million worth of tickets in the United States and Canada since June 25.
All told, the movie's total stands at $21.96 million, because it got a head-start on Wednesday in two Manhattan theaters to help build more media buzz before expanding to a relatively modest 868 theaters two days later. (By contrast, most of the other movies in the top five were playing in more than 2,500 theaters each.)
Moore's previous movie, "Bowling for Columbine," which nabbed the Academy Award for best documentary last year, grossed about $21.5 million during its nine-month run, peaking at about 250 theaters, according to Moore. That haul was a record for a documentary in regular movie theaters.
"These are mind-blowing numbers," Moore said during a conference call, "And the fact that all the predictions that the movie would only speak to the choir and that it would only be those who don't like Bush coming to the movie, I don't think have turned out to be true."
Indeed, "Fahrenheit 9/11" played strongly in big cities and small towns, in Democrat and Republican states, said Tom Ortenberg, the president of distribution at Lions Gate Films, one of the firms that backed the movie.
"FAHRENHEIT" FRENZY
According to exit surveys in about 15 cities, 91 percent of respondents gave the film an "excellent" rating, while 93 percent said they would "definitely recommend" the film -- tallies that Ortenberg said were the best he had ever seen. The core audience was aged between 25 and 34, he added.
Lions Gate, a unit of Lions Gate Entertainment Corp, partnered on the film's distribution with IFC Films, a unit of Cablevision Systems Corp.'s Rainbow Media Holdings LLC, and Miramax co-chairmen Harvey and Bob Weinstein. The Weinsteins bought the movie's rights with their own money after Miramax parent Walt Disney Co. refused to let them release it under the Miramax banner.
The Disney brouhaha, which broke in early May, weeks before "Fahrenheit 9/11" went on to win the top prize at the Cannes Film Festival, helped give the movie a huge public profile virtually unprecedented for a $6 million documentary.
Moore and the Weinsteins, well-practiced masters of media spin, were also helped in their efforts by grassroots groups from both sides of the political fence that chimed in with their opinions. Moore thanked his detractors for helping boost awareness and ticket sales.
While Moore has previously boasted that "Fahrenheit 9/11" would help Bush lose his job in November, he backed down during the teleconference, merely hoping that the film would inspire the large non-voting bloc to be "an active participant in our democracy." Similarly, Moore reversed himself on previously stated plans to release the DVD version of the film in October. "No deal has been done to do that," he said.
But one thing is certain. The Oscar race is now definitely underway ahead of next year's Feb. 27 ceremony, with "Fahrenheit 9/11" joining Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" as the highest-profile contender. "We have big plans for the award season, absolutely," Ortenberg said.
Elsewhere at the box office, the comedy "White Chicks" opened at No. 2 with $19.6 million for the weekend, and $27.1 million since bowing nationally on Wednesday. Last weekend's champion, "Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story," fell to No. 3 with $18.5 million, and a 10-day haul of $67.2 million.
Steven Spielberg's "The Terminal," starring Tom Hanks, fell two places to No. 4 with $13.9 million, and a 10-day total of $41.8 million. Director Nick Cassavetes' "The Notebook," a tear-jerker romance based on the Nicholas Sparks bestseller," opened at No. 5 with a solid $13 million.
"White Chicks" was released by Columbia Pictures, a unit of Sony Corp . "Dodgeball" was released by Twentieth Century Fox, a unit of News Corp.'s Fox Entertainment Group Inc . "The Terminal" was released by DreamWorks SKG, which is privately held. "The Notebook" was released by New Line Cinema, a unit of Time Warner Inc .
source (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=B3RTA4RBWNLJCCRBAEZSFEY?type=topNews&storyID=5523546)
M Moore 2
Neocons 0:lol
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F911 facts (http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
F911 facts (http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/)
Theres can be as many different facts as there are people
Why would a person rely on those facts any more than on Moore's?
IMO nothing makes a site less convincing than spamming the word 'fact'
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Originally posted by Fishu
Theres can be as many different facts as there are people
Why would a person rely on those facts any more than on Moore's?
IMO nothing makes a site less convincing than spamming the word 'fact'
And that's a fact! ;)
Ravs
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The core audience was aged between 25 and 34, he added.
Xtor, as you told me so eloquently in another post:
"CONSIDER THE SOURCE!!!!"
NeoCons 1
NecroDems 2:rofl
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it peaked
Zhou Yu's Train (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808566400) should gross more next weekend
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and released by a Canadian company too!!!
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Not bad for a 'banned' film. :rolleyes:
I wonder how Moore is going to generate so much free publicity for his next effort.
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Originally posted by Eagler
it peaked
Zhou Yu's Train (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808566400) should gross more next weekend
Peaked opening in roughly only 1/3 of the market?? Not likely..
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Moor3 would mak3 an exc3ll3nt Pr3sid3nt!
:rofl
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And yet Bush did well in the polls... I guess that moore won't win the election for the libs and women.
Thing is.. if the movie is popular enough it will help Bush a lot... there are allready five or six cites that carefully dissasemble moores movie for the fraud it is... by election it will be expossed as a big lie by so many sources that it will be very unhip to even say you liked it in the first place.
you will look like a fool who got took in... A position that most liberals are pretty used to but they never seem to get it.
lazs
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BS. What polls were done and announced over the weekend?
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FREE IRAQ
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Well, chances are it has peaked. This is not due to any political reason. This is because what is arguably the most anticipated film by the public at large is being released on Wednesday. This being Spiderman 2.
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Spiderman 2 sure looks like it's going to suck. I'm going to watch it though...fortunately I've got a free ticket and a $10 gift cert so I can get a small pop and a napkin.
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What do you mean it will suck. That bad guy looks great! Is he croatian or something?
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Originally posted by Pongo
What do you mean it will suck. That bad guy looks great! Is he croatian or something?
On a side note, I have met 2 Croatian girls in my life and both were freaking scorching hot!!
Must be something in the water over there...
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"I want to thank all the right-wing organizations out there who tried to stop the film, either from their harassment campaign that didn't work on the theatre owners, or going to the FEC to get our ads removed from television, to all the things that have been said on television," Moore said. "It's only encouraged more people to go and see it.":lol
(http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/images/issue08.27.03/edcol.michael-moore.jpg)
source (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1088374209263&call_pageid=968867495754&col=968705925735)
M Moore 3
NeoCons 0
:cool:
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
"I want to thank all the right-wing organizations out there who tried to stop the film, either from their harassment campaign that didn't work on the theatre owners, or going to the FEC to get our ads removed from television, to all the things that have been said on television," Moore said. "It's only encouraged more people to go and see it.":lol
(http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/images/issue08.27.03/edcol.michael-moore.jpg)
source (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1088374209263&call_pageid=968867495754&col=968705925735)
M Moore 3
NeoCons 0
:cool:
Canada must be a truly boring place for you to spend so much
time obsessing about American crapola.
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Definitions...You figure out what this film falls under...
Propaganda:
1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda
[/B]
Documentary:
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film. A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.
[/B]
Sources:
Definitions of Propaganda and Documentary: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language - Fourth Edition
Kalamori
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"Yes, children played, women shopped and men sat in cafes while that stuff went on — just as people did all those normal things in Somoza's Nicaragua, Duvalier's Haiti and for that matter Nazi Germany, and as they do just about everywhere, including in Iraq today"
Well I saw it opening night ... how many of you with so-called 'opnions' have even seen it?
Well I doubt this guy is a moron.... so he must have an agenda
Noone cares about the Congo ... let me see somethign like 3-5 million have died there in last 5 years or so.
Ya we really care about tho's poor Iraqi's .. and not thier oil
"As the camera pans across copies of Bush’s records from the Texas Air National Guard, and Moore reads that the future president was suspended for missing a medical examination, we hear a familiar electric guitar riff; it takes you a moment to remember that it comes from a song called ‘Cocaine.’"
Well he missed the point yet agin ... did this guy even see this movie.. or did he hear that they showed bush's guard record on the movie.....
If you saw the movie, you'd know this was not his aim ... it was to show that Bush was suspended with a man with close ties too the Saudi's... way back then ..... after this point ... money from 'nowhere' shows up for bush to drill for dust ......... Michale moore is useing this to show exactly how far back his connection with the Saudi's goes .... Guess he didn't see to movie....... noone really cared that he was AWOL ..... it's was who he was AWOL with......
you all should see it and judge for yourself .... don't listen to this *******(donkey) who doesn't even know what he's talking about .. or he has a propoganda agenda. take your pick. Cause he completly missed the point....
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some prefer getting tooled from the right, others prefer getting tooled from the left. I, otoh, prefer to tool myself.
:rofl
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Well he missed the point yet agin ... did this guy even see this movie.. or did he hear that they showed bush's guard record on the movie.....
If you saw the movie, you'd know this was not his aim ... it was to show that Bush was suspended with a man with close ties too the Saudi's... way back then ..... after this point ... money from 'nowhere' shows up for bush to drill for dust ......... Michale moore is useing this to show exactly how far back his connection with the Saudi's goes .... Guess he didn't see to movie....... noone really cared that he was AWOL ..... it's was who he was AWOL with......
you all should see it and judge for yourself .... don't listen to this *******(donkey)who doesn't even know what he'stalking about .. or he has a propoganda agenda. take your pick. Cause he completly missed the point....
Just for Clairification...Who is he, you, *******(donkey),he's ???
Kalamori
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My smart-guy cigarette-smokin' liberalistic Gore votin' democratic party supportin' NOW and partial gay rights sympathizin' Reagan lovin' (If I'm lyin' I'm diein'!) "Meathead" of a brother-in-law went to see Fahrenheit 9/11...
...and described it as "...very unfair to President Bush."
Just shows to go ya...stereotyping every member of a group is dumb.
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Family gatherings at your house must be really, really interesting.....um ever thought of selling tickets?
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The Dumbest Buy The Mostest
"Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America"
QED
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Schadenfreude my man, you have NO idea! Fortunately, I wasn't talking about MY family!
There is enough paranoia, schizophrenia, anti-social hostility, and neurosis to keep the entire membership of America's psychiatric profession in Rolexes, Mercedes, and multi-story mansions well into the next millenium.
Family gatherings are anything but dull!
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The Dumbest Buy The Mostest
"Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America"
QED
Do the dumbest elect the mostest too? ;)
Interesting choice at the next election!
Ravs
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I saw FH9/11 last Friday, and it did impress me. Not for the obvious liberal slant/bias, but in that it managed to be funny, sad and thought-provoking.
If there's only one valid point to be taken away from the film, it's that we should never, ever trust the government 100% when they spoon feed us a reason as to why we are invading another country that has never attacked us.
I think the evidence is now clear, even without considering anything that Michael Moore says in FH9/11, that our government duped and manipulated the American public into supporting the invasion of Iraq.
Does the end justify the means? I don't know, but I'm guessing that probably yes, in the long run it will. If Iraq becomes a successful, thriving democracy, where the Iraqi people control their own destiny...then it will have been worth it.
But try to explain that to all the remaining relatives(especially the children!) of the dead American servicemen and servicewomen who gave their lives in Iraq. In twenty years time, how many of us could look into their eyes and say that their sacrifice of growing up without a mom or a dad, was worth it?
This is why I think FH9/11 is an honorable film. It gets people to think out of the box and perhaps question their government's actions.
I would just as eagerly go see a similar film made by Rush Limbaugh. Any film that can provoke intelligent discussion is a worthwhile film, in my opinion.
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I think the evidence is now clear, even without considering anything that Michael Moore says in FH9/11, that our government duped and manipulated the American public into supporting the invasion of Iraq.
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Congrats wank, you have been TOOLED
:rofl
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Originally posted by Yeager
I think the evidence is now clear, even without considering anything that Michael Moore says in FH9/11, that our government duped and manipulated the American public into supporting the invasion of Iraq.
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Congrats wank, you have been TOOLED
:rofl
You're right, Yeager. But it wasn't Micheal Moore who "tooled" me. It was the Bush administration, because I supported their invasion of Iraq at the beginning.
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thrawn... the new york times poll showed Bush up a few points since the movie came out. The new york times is pretty lefty too.
banana... just curious... what part of the movie did you think was honest and proved some kind of point?
lazs
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banana... just curious... what part of the movie did you think was honest and proved some kind of point?
The part that showed wounded and dead American servicemen.
The point being that there had better be a *very* good reason before you send our servicemen and women into harm's way.
At first, I thought that getting rid of Saddam was a good enough reason. After a year's reflection and hundreds of deaths and many more woundings.....I'm not so sure.
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This is why I think FH9/11 is an honorable film
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I bet you think it's a documentary too.:lol
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Actually, I would catagorize it as documentary/propaganda.
Have you actually seen it?
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not good enough banana... by that logic the 5000 or so dead women and babies that were killed by chemical alli and all the brutal torture and shootings of the sadman would make yu glad to send U.S. troops to stop it.
For instance.. watched a history channel film last night on the factions in iraq and all the historical stuff was pure brutality and insanity that would make a nazi pale.
Tbe sadman was/is as evil as any man in history. The sadman would have worked dillegently to get a nuke. He did before and there is no logical reason why he wouldn't continue to do so the second he thought he could.
Taking him out was an extremely good object lesson. I bet the terrorists are prayng that kerry is elected.
lazs
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Originally posted by banana
Actually, I would catagorize it as documentary/propaganda.
Have you actually seen it?
I saw it. It reminded me of nazi and soviet propaganda films I have seen...
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Lazs, I don't think we can or even should be the world's policeman. We can't go into every country where they have an oppressive government and topple it.
Using your logic, we should have already invaded China and North Korea.
Don't worry, though, if Bush gets re-elected you may get your wish.
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Originally posted by lazs2
thrawn... the new york times poll showed Bush up a few points since the movie came out. The new york times is pretty lefty too.
Any boost in Bush's approval rating was temporary. The latest New York Times poll shows Bush's job approval rating at 42%, the lowest point of his entire presidency.
Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/29/politics/campaign/29POLL.html?hp) is the link. Registration required.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Actually, I would catagorize it as documentary/propaganda.
:eek:
Why is it everyone wants to add something to "documentary"?
MM even said it was a "Satirical documentary"
doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter[/u], as in a book or film
sa·tir·i·cal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-tr-kl) or sa·tir·ic (-k)
adj.
Of, relating to, or characterized by satire.
So in his own words it's not a TRUE documentary.
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The part that showed wounded and dead American servicemen.
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you had to go see moores film to finally see and be emotionally impacted by wounded and dead amercian servicemen ?
uh ya!
you been TOOLED......big time toolage
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Originally posted by Yeager
The part that showed wounded and dead American servicemen.
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you had to go see moores film to finally see and be emotionally impacted by wounded and dead amercian servicemen ?
uh ya!
you been TOOLED......big time toolage
Yeager, are you being dense on purpose? I was just answering Lazs' question. He didn't ask me what my beliefs were, he asked what part of the film I thought was honest and proved a point.
I will continue to debate if you wish, but you're going to have to pay more attention.
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So in his own words it's not a TRUE documentary.
Mighty, so name me a documentary film that has no slant, and is perfectly objective.
You might be able to name one or two, but I think if you're honest with yourself, you'll agree that every documentary has some slant or point that the filmmaker wants to drive home.
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There is no debate for me. I made a commitment and I will see it through success or failure. Too often in the nations history it makes a commitment and then backs off leaving friends in a lurch and enemies stronger. You play it however you want but if you supported the thing then changed your mind based on a leftist anti americans (moore) propaganda piece then your a weakling plain and simple in my estimation. A nice weakling for sure. No squabbles wank.
please yourself bro.
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Sometimes it takes a stronger man to admit that he's made a mistake?
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
Sometimes it takes a stronger man to admit that he's made a mistake?
Ravs
what mistake?
Iraq? Not a mistake in the eyes of many, more like a beginning
Moore-on? yes, maybe his dad will admit to that mistake - LOL
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Ravs true, this thing just goes round and round and at some point you just have to make a decision and stick with it.
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MM by his own admission edited the movie in a way that made quotes given different than their original meaning. That does NOT make them facts nor does it make the movie a documentary.
The person may have said the words but they didn't say them in the order he put them in the movie.
Hell I have no problem with someone coming out with a movie that bashes Bush but what I have a problem with is someone coming out making a political statement trying to disguise it as a documentary.
It may be funny it may have some truth in it but it is propaganda NOT a documentary.
This movie is nothing more than MM trying to get Bush out of office.
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FWIW, Eagler, I don't think the actual decision to invade Iraq was a mistake (although it may still be too soon to tell) but I do think that (put at its kindest) the reasons supporting that decision were mistaken.
I see nothing wrong in Bush / Blair saying, 'Look we're sorry we screwed up the reasoning behind this thing, but now we are there, we have to see it through to the end', as Yeager says.
Of course they won't say that because it is such a rare thing for politicians (of any hue) to actually come out and say they were wrong about something.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Yeager
I made a commitment and I will see it through success or failure.
He said sitting at home in front of his computer.
then your a weakling plain and simple in my estimation. A nice weakling for sure.
He said sitting at home in front of his computer.
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Sometimes inappropriate commitments can cause over 50,000 American deaths. I read this in a History book. I also remember it.
The point is... (for the point getting impaired) ... that dissent doesn't become wrong just because the troops are in the field. It IS possible to support the troops and even to pray for their ultimate victory, while finding fault with the CIC and his agenda.
You may return to your bashing now.
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If you're going to bring Vietnam into this then we have to look at what our failure to follow through on that commitment cost in lives.
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oh squealing beautiful thrawn. grow up for christ sake.
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rav
hindsight is 20/20
at the time the intel said one thing, now we find another
it was still the right move at the right time for "the war on terror"
changing the face of the middle east, it had to start somewhere and Iraq was the best place/reason for its birthplace
Blair/Bush have nothing to apologize for imo and to just do so because some would "feel better " if they did, would reflect weakness on our part to our enemies
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Imagine a thriving and democratic South Vietnam with a powerhouse economy like South Korea! oh wait, that wouldnt fit John Kerries view on communism........
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Originally posted by Yeager
There is no debate for me. I made a commitment and I will see it through success or failure. Too often in the nations history it makes a commitment and then backs off leaving friends in a lurch and enemies stronger. You play it however you want but if you supported the thing then changed your mind based on a leftist anti americans (moore) propaganda piece then your a weakling plain and simple in my estimation. A nice weakling for sure. No squabbles wank.
please yourself bro.
Yeager, first of all...I did not come to any conclusion based on anything Michael Moore has said or anything he has ever made as a filmmaker.
I think if you study 20th century history, you will find many instances where countless lives could've been saved had governments decided NOT to "see it through" to the bitter end.
Ever read any World War One history? Talk about a pointless war, fought for such noble things as honor and national dignity. Once the battle of movement in 1914 came to an end in December, the stagnation of trench warfare set in, and the governments involved could have decided to negotiate some sort of peace. Instead, they chose to "see it through to the end, whether success or failure", with catastrophic results. The result of such noble commitment? Multiple governments toppled, millions killed, maimed, widowed, fatherless.....not to mention the direct effect of being the cause of World War Two.
Is it always better to "See it through to the end"? I don't think so.
Even though I have retracted my support of the Bush administration in their invasion of Iraq, I do believe that we have to finish the job that we started, and make the commitment to the Iraqi people to help them make their country a successful democracy.
Yeager, which country is going to be next for some bellybutton kicking? Obviously, WMD and a proven connection to Al Quaeda are not needed to justify invasion. Should we do Iran or Syria next? Why not go for it all and take on China while we still have a military advantage?
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Originally posted by banana
Should we do Iran or Syria next? Why not go for it all and take on China while we still have a military advantage?
Now yer talkin'. :aok
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Originally posted by Yeager
oh squealing beautiful thrawn. grow up for christ sake.
No, you grow up.
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Originally posted by banana
.... and take on China while we still have a military advantage?
after a few more dumbacrat POTUS's giving away a few more military secrets in exchange for $$$$ for the party of the donkey, you may wish we had..
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you childish imp.
Im done with you No. 4 good riddance
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No, I'm done with you, good riddence!
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you two can't fool us - when is the wedding? CA or MA ??? :)
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LOL! :D
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"Any boost in Bush's approval rating was temporary. The latest New York Times poll shows Bush's job approval rating at 42%, the lowest point of his entire presidency.
Here is the link. Registration required.
-- Todd/Leviathn"
well then... what Bush needs is for moore to make another movie before the election to get his ratings up even higher. In the poll it also said that more people felt that kerry was bad for the country than Bush. The stronger the economy get's the better for Bush... if Gas is down 20 cents a gallon the day of the election it will be a Bush landslide... if a couple of mre terrorist leaders are captured, same thing. Another big attack here in the states and kerry won't even get 30% of the vote.
banana... I don't think we should be the worlds police either but if we aren't then we should get out of the U.N. If we do use our might then we should use it in our best interests. I believe that when all is said and done... iraq was in our best interest.
lazs
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Originally posted by Eagler
you two can't fool us - when is the wedding? CA or MA ??? :)
(http://forums.checksix.net/smileys/smiley27.gif)
Bush approval rating polling info can be found here.
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
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Originally posted by Yeager
Imagine a thriving and democratic South Vietnam with a powerhouse economy like South Korea! oh wait, that wouldnt fit John Kerries view on communism........
Imagine 50,000 US troops being killed for nothing... oh wait, we already did that.
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Don't worry. "Spiderman 2" will be out soon and everyone will forget about this movie.
Where can I ge the F9/11 action figures and vehicles?
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"Where can I ge the F9/11 action figures and vehicles?"
Just ask Eagler where he got his.
(http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/george-w-aviator.jpg)
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Originally posted by -MZ-
Imagine 50,000 US troops being killed for nothing... oh wait, we already did that.
Tell that to a South Korean...
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Its amazing to see a thread going on it's second page without a single cohesive thought in it. It's like everyone got a discount at "Rhetoric r us".
All the catch phrases are here. All the preconceptions are here. The leaps in logic (illogic) are here. The really funny part is watching you guys call everyone else "programmed".
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Tell that to a South Korean...
Yes, I'm sure the South Koreans appreciated our sacrifice.
I wonder, however, if the widows or children of the servicemen killed in Korea would agree with you on whether the sacrifice was worth it.
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miniD has been......
TOOLED!
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I was looking forward to seeing Spiderman 2. Then I saw the new costume. Not sure I really want to see it now.
(http://www.skrattkammaren.com/spiderman.jpg)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Tell that to a South Korean...
They don't like us very much either, remember they had 30 years of dictators after the war ended. They weren't lunatic Stalinists like the Great/Dear Leader, but they were still tyrants.
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Originally posted by Eagler
after a few more dumbacrat POTUS's giving away a few more military secrets in exchange for $$$$ for the party of the donkey, you may wish we had..
Thanks to irresponsible Bush fiscal policy, China now holds over $100 Billion in US debt. If they decided to dump that on the market all at once, they could cause us major pain without firing a shot.
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Eagler
"hindsight is 20/20
at the time the intel said one thing, now we find another
it was still the right move at the right time for "the war on terror"
"
what you mean to say. Is that the forsight shown by the people you insulted in every imaginable way at the time was 20/20.
Your hind sight seems to be considerably worse then 20/20..
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Thank you, Pongo :)
Ravs
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all I'm gonna say about this movie is it is riddled with inacurracies and uproven conclusions relayed as fact presented in a very slanted yet entertaining mannor.
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Did you see it?
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"riddled with inacurracies and uproven conclusions relayed as fact presented in a very slanted yet entertaining mannor."
Aha. That would make Michael Moore the same type of animal as Rush Limbaugh.
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Originally posted by Westy
"Where can I ge the F9/11 action figures and vehicles?"
Just ask Eagler where he got his.
(http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/george-w-aviator.jpg)
don't have one yet, I'll give you a P.O. Box if you wanna send me one...
it'll be worth it's weight in gold by the time my youngest is my age
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Originally posted by Pongo
Did you see it?
yup just saw it
to say the Bush's have a close personal tie with osam bin laden and the bin ladens is no different than saying the kennedys were tied with mob.
didnt Osama have like 20 brothers or somthing....arent they like the 3rd richest family in saudi arabia. Would it not be a true statement to say that its not all that shocking to see that the Bush family, who is heavily involved in the oil business would have ties with rich saudi oil people.
Second.....It wasnt Bush that allowed the Bin Ladens and other sauds to fly out sept 13th it was Dick Clarck himself......and after they were interviewed by the FBI.
Third.....those minutes were Bush was reading to the kids was not when he was informed our nation was under attack... most people at that point thaught it was an aviation accitdent. It wasnt until the second plane hit that it really made sense.
The whole intro w/ the florida election centering around the all eveil fox news and the court stealing the election from Gore. No need to mention the FACT that every recount after the election showed bush the winner.
African American voters refused thier right.....If this is true why could they not get ONE senator to sign their petition?????? Dem. or Repub.
The Iraq war.....I can show you just select images and posters of peacfull war protesters too and show you just how "peacfull" they are. Just as he did w/ US servicemen talking about killing and war then switching to dead civilians.
C'MON this was entertaining.....but truthfull and daming...not one bit.
and comparing Moore to limbaugh is not all that far off the mark. They are both entertaining. They are both Highly slanted in thier veiws. and they are not allways accurate OR they both can spin very well.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Third.....those minutes were Bush was reading to the kids was not when he was informed our nation was under attack... most people at that point thaught it was an aviation accitdent. It wasnt until the second plane hit that it really made sense.
he was told of the first plane BEFORE he went into the classroom...when he was advised in front of the kids (when the minutes tick by) is the news of the second plane having struck tower #2
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
he was told of the first plane BEFORE he went into the classroom...when he was advised in front of the kids (when the minutes tick by) is the news of the second plane having struck tower #2
Bush should have jumped from his chair and ran in a panic out the door. Maybe he could have prevented 911 if only he wouldn't have read with the kids.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Bush should have jumped from his chair and ran in a panic out the door. Maybe he could have prevented 911 if only he wouldn't have read with the kids.
you are damn correct about it: your president should have excused himself and with poise made his way for a briefing without wasting one more second. no if's and's or but's....your nation was under attack nuke...
to defend what he did makes you the absolute stupidest person that may ever draw a breath on this planet for all time.:rolleyes:
and you havent even seen the movie have you!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
you are damn correct about it: your president should have excused himself and with poise made his way for a briefing without wasting one more second. no if's and's or but's....your nation was under attack nuke...
to defend what he did makes you the absolute stupidest person that may ever draw a breath on this planet for all time.:rolleyes:
and you havent even seen the movie have you!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I didn't defend him, but I am a bit more reasoned about the situation than you seem to be. You and others like you feed off of hatred, I do not.
I could actually defend his actions, but your mind is set in hatred and you cannot be reasoned with.
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Originally posted by -MZ-
They don't like us very much either, remember they had 30 years of dictators after the war ended. They weren't lunatic Stalinists like the Great/Dear Leader, but they were still tyrants.
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg)
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
he was told of the first plane BEFORE he went into the classroom...when he was advised in front of the kids (when the minutes tick by) is the news of the second plane having struck tower #2
What about the other points
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
he was told of the first plane BEFORE he went into the classroom...when he was advised in front of the kids (when the minutes tick by) is the news of the second plane having struck tower #2
That is the first time I have heard that. Do you have a credible source?
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Lie #1
JUNE 28--Prior to last week's Washington, D.C. premiere of "Fahrenheit 9/11," Michael Moore denied that the new documentary represents his de facto endorsement of John Kerry. "I am an Independent," the filmmaker told reporters. "I'm not a member of the Democratic party."
Which is not exactly correct.
New York City Board of Elections records show that Moore, 50, registered to vote in Gotham in 1992, checking off "Democratic" as his party affiliation (below you'll find a copy of his original registration form). He listed his address as the swanky Upper West Side building where he owns a multimillion dollar condominium (Moore's office is on West 57th Street). The filmmaker's New York registration remains active, though he has not voted since an October 2001 Democratic runoff election.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html
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Very eloquent Grun. Hard to argue with success.
Regarding Vietnam, we lost that one only because of internal division, much like we are experiencing now.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg)
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Probably just 'cuz the Green Party is in power up north.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
to say the Bush's have a close personal tie with osam bin laden and the bin ladens is no different than saying the kennedys were tied with mob.
didnt Osama have like 20 brothers or somthing....arent they like the 3rd richest family in saudi arabia. Would it not be a true statement to say that its not all that shocking to see that the Bush family, who is heavily involved in the oil business would have ties with rich saudi oil people.
no question about that...and i believe that m moore was only establisihing the business association with the bush & bin laden families (going back to the 70's?) and i think osama is one of 47 kids
Second.....It wasnt Bush that allowed the Bin Ladens and other sauds to fly out sept 13th it was Dick Clarck himself......and after they were interviewed by the FBI.
incorrect.... papers allowing those several flights of saudi's was directly signed by GW himself and no, none of them were interviewed by fbi (that's why m moore said at that time, "Imagine if clinton had given safe passage out of the courtry for the mcveigh family after the oklahoma bombing, without anyone speaking to the mcveigh's?")
Third.....those minutes were Bush was reading to the kids was not when he was informed our nation was under attack... most people at that point thaught it was an aviation accitdent. It wasnt until the second plane hit that it really made sense.
he was told of the first plane BEFORE he went into the classroom...when he was advised in front of the kids (when the minutes tick by) is the news of the second plane having struck tower #2
The whole intro w/ the florida election centering around the all eveil fox news and the court stealing the election from Gore. No need to mention the FACT that every recount after the election showed bush the winner.
you are probably correct...but m moore's point was all the residents of florida whos vote was not counted for a variety of reasons...if memory serves 16,000 votes discarded in one area alone...(that's when moore showed all the residents who were affected by this addressing the house, all having written and signed letters and submitted letters stating the 'errors' and yet the votes were not counted and not one of those thousands of people could find one senator to provide a single signature)
African American voters refused thier right.....If this is true why could they not get ONE senator to sign their petition?????? Dem. or Repub.
no idea man...
The Iraq war.....I can show you just select images and posters of peacfull war protesters too and show you just how "peacfull" they are. Just as he did w/ US servicemen talking about killing and war then switching to dead civilians.
no need to explain about 'peace marches'...ive seen many that were anything but peaceful. my worst memory of a peace march going bad is kent state
C'MON this was entertaining.....but truthfull and daming...not one bit.
i agree that this movie was entertaining
thruthful?....truth has many faces; this is one
damning?....based only upon my 'reaction' and that of the audience today, i would have to disagree.
and comparing Moore to limbaugh is not all that far off the mark. They are both entertaining. They are both Highly slanted in thier veiws. and they are not allways accurate OR they both can spin very well.
i enjoy listening to limbaugh...i can see why a comparison would be made. the accuracy of f9/11 is going to come under intense scrutiny. he has ruffled alot of feathers with this movie and I suspect if there is any misrepresentation of information that he will be held accountable in a court of law.
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Grun, would you care to explain why there is so much "light" in the middle of the freaking ocean?
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Dunno if Grun got that pic here but it is here. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm
A bit of trivia, I used to work with the DMSP guys that may have taken that pic.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Grun, would you care to explain why there is so much "light" in the middle of the freaking ocean?
Amazingly I think they are fishing fleets, no kidding.
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is it still in theaters?
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Originally posted by majic
That is the first time I have heard that. Do you have a credible source?
i hope you find all the answers to questions you have...there appears to be abundant references for 'proof of statement' through out this long detailed chronology.
if i can help agian...please don't hesitate to ask:)
resource link (http://billstclair.com/911timeline/main/bushon911.html)
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
incorrect.... papers allowing those several flights of saudi's was directly signed by GW himself and no, none of them were interviewed by fbi (that's why m moore said at that time, "Imagine if clinton had given safe passage out of the courtry for the mcveigh family after the oklahoma bombing, without anyone speaking to the mcveigh's?")
Statement of Richard Clarke
Richard Clarke, who served as President Bush’s chief of counterterrorism, has claimed sole responsibility for approving flights of Saudi Arabian citizens, including members of Osama bin Laden’s family, from the United States immediately after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
“I take responsibility for it. I don’t think it was a mistake, and I’d do it again.”..."responsibility for the Saudis' departure didn't get any higher than me."
"On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13, many things didn't get any higher than me," he said. "I decided it in consultation with the FBI."
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
i hope you find all the answers to questions you have...there appears to be abundant references for 'proof of statement' through out this long detailed chronology.
if i can help agian...please don't hesitate to ask:)
resource link (http://billstclair.com/911timeline/main/bushon911.html)
Good post way to keep the partisionship out of it
What I was saying about the black voters was in the begining of the movie when Al Gore had to certify the election results. Moore only showed black congressmen protesting the results but they needed a senators signature to back up their claims. NO SENATORS SIGNED.....BLACK WHITE REPUB OR DEM.....
that tells me if there is somthing to the story the blame should go on senators...not bush
as far as the saudi flights
http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx
http://www.neoflux.com/archive/data/2004/0601-192541.shtml
http://econ4dean.typepad.com/lerxst/2004/06/hitchens_overst.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38669
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200406%5CPOL20040601a.html
http://www.saudiembassy.net/2004News/Statements/StateDetail.asp?cIndex=403
not sure of the crediblity here but oh well
goin to bed....again....entertainment ....not real news
EDIT:
I also hated how he portrayed the military. I'd feel a little less about it if I actually saw HIM doing the interviews in Iraq.
Also the recruiters and the poor kids....sorry but recruiters have a job, but they also have guidlines to that job....there are many safeguards to make sure a recruit is getting what was promised nowadays.
If a kid joins the army to go to college not expecting to go to combat he is a dumbarse.....it does not matter if you do not support said conflict......woa is me I joined the military cause i'm poor and now I'm deployed.....you take the good w/ the bad.
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xrtoronto
Maybe you shouldn't get your information from propaganda films...
OK?
Seriously, are you aware that you are quoting a highly slanted and biased piece of creative art as fact?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
[IMG]
Several years ago I asked some South Korean students about why they protested against America during the massive street fighting in the 80s. The students said that they were upset America had supported the South Korean dictatorships and wasn't interested in democracy. Of course, with our current diplomatic disaster of an administration, they really dislike us now:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2300 (http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2300)
Personally, I think the South Koreans should have an "America Day" where they send us flat screen monitors and give thanks that they are not living in that North Korean hellhole.
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Grun, that pic needs a "Pwn3d!" caption.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
F911 facts (http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/)
Actually the ONLY Embassy with Secret Service protection is the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Washington, not all.
Why do all of you get so wound up over a stupid documentary? Is it really worth the carpal tunnel exposure to beat your fingers on a keyboard?! Michael Moore HAS the RIGHT to show this, so beat up on the First Amendment instead. I have yet to see it, nor will I, it comes down to choice.
I still fail to understand why people clash on politics? The politicans sure love it though, you fight, ignore the money siphoning and thank them while you piss and moan about higher taxes that were snuck in on a bill that you helped pass.
Democrats cry that the last election was "stolen" by Bush and the "state of Florida". WRONG, want the proof? Gore just had to win HIS HOMESTATE and the dolt would have been in office.
<> Rep's and Dems as a whole. ALL of em are crooks.
Oh yeah, to head off all of you, I voted for the Dubya (the rest were independants). Michigan gun grabbers can kiss the wide part of my arse. This is it, my last post on this thread.
Karaya
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Originally posted by -MZ-
Personally, I think the South Koreans should have an "America Day" where they send us flat screen monitors and give thanks that they are not living in that North Korean hellhole.
Good. :)
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here is a variety of 'reviews' from across the US...it's an interesting read ...
reviews on one page (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/)
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The only F911 review that matters!
"It waz zo butiful it makez me vant zu kry!"
(http://www.bdp.it/~copc0001/ebraismo/goebbels.jpg)
He gives it //// out of ///// seig heils!
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I cant believe you lefties are taking so well to this spoonfed propaganda movie where moore makes all the conclusions for you on a nice shiny platter..
:rofl
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"I cant believe you lefties are taking so well to this spoonfed propaganda movie where moore makes all the conclusions for you on a nice shiny platter.."
You have your Limbaugh and they have thier Moore. Can't you see that you and they are just different ends of the same animal?
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Originally posted by Westy
You have your Limbaugh and they have thier Moore. Can't you see that you and they are just different ends of the same animal?
Cant say, never watched any Limbaugh programs or radio.. But I imagine they both distort the same...
So are you saying Moore is a bad as Limbaugh?
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"So are you saying Moore is a bad as Limbaugh?"
I don't like either (intensely) and from what little I've seen and heard from both my answer is a solid yes.
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Originally posted by Westy
"I cant believe you lefties are taking so well to this spoonfed propaganda movie where moore makes all the conclusions for you on a nice shiny platter.."
You have your Limbaugh and they have thier Moore. Can't you see that you and they are just different ends of the same animal?
I've never listened to Limbaugh but if I have to choose which end of an animal to be I'll pick the end that does the thinking.
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Neither end is "thinking" but they sure as hell are "spinning."
IMO the trick is not to like the animal period - let alone either end of it. Don't be a party puppet.
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Originally posted by Westy
Neither end is "thinking" but they sure as hell are "spinning."
IMO the trick is not to like the animal period - let alone either end of it. Don't be a party puppet.
I have an AMAZING sudgestion....
ITS AWSOME....
Are you ready for it?????
here it comes
either limbaugh or moore......HOW ABOUT THINKING FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!! LOOK UP THE FACTS AND DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS
I've never quoted anything on this board from limbaugh without making sure there is an independent source to back it up or its a DIRECT QUOTE.
If you beleive in what moore presented to you in his documentary than I have a couple of bridges to sell you and beach front property in arizona as well.
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"HOW ABOUT THINKING FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!! LOOK UP THE FACTS AND DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS"
****slinger I do. Most certainly more than you are capable of.
I personally think that anyone who aligns thier thoughts along side of those of Moore or Limbaugh are total morons.
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Originally posted by Westy
"HOW ABOUT THINKING FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!! LOOK UP THE FACTS AND DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS"
****slinger I do. Most certainly more than you are capable of.
I personally think that anyone who aligns thier thoughts along side of those of Moore or Limbaugh are total morons.
wow name calling......way to show how smart you is. I bet you read good too.
I dont see how me agreeing w/ you makes you any more capable of independent thaught than me but FLAME ON :aok