Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on January 02, 2001, 09:30:00 AM
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First, do what Udie did a few months back, recruit a few folks over to the Med Terrain. Now, count the A/C. Wow, an overwhelming number of LW and British A/C! Amazing isn't it?!?
Now, go to a Pacific Terrain, and recruit pilots, An amazing number of Hogs and Nikis and Zeros! Amazing isn't it?!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Just as an experiment, disable the chog, and see if all those Hog drivers switch to the D. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Um...
A more obvious answer is that you have a popular new take-off airfield (the CVs) with only 4 fighters that can take off from it, one of which is the CHog.
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Err,
Five fighters, I mean :-)
Checking last tour I see the CHog had 3 times as many kills as the next most kills by an AC. And more kills than the next two AC combined.
I suspect it will be worse this tour.
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Torgo,
Check and see what the top 3 planes are in air-to-air kills.
Ground vehicle/ship kills sort of distort the record as the 1C is pretty well acknowledged as the best ground attack aircraft in AH. (BTW, also subtract out the C-47 kills since it can't shoot back and is just a target drone.)
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Toad,
Ok, 4,582 of those kills were v. ground vehicles or C47s.
That leaves 10,931 Air to Air kills.
Same thing with the NIKI reduces its kills to 5,548.
So now it has twice as many kills as the next highest AC, not 3 times as many.
So?
My point is there are hordes of sorties in the CHog..unfortunately we can't see sortie data directly.
I don't see how "a lot of those sorties are ground attack" is a response to the argument "gee, there are a lot of CHogs in the arena."
I submit that perking the Chog would create a more interesting game. I feel that with its removal, its sorties would probably go 25% to the DHog, 20% to the Niki, 20% to the P51, 20% to the FW, 10% to the Typhoon, 5% to the Jug, roughly.
Creating more AC diversity and a more interesting game.
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Just gang bang torque. It will bring the numbers down.
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Here's the problem, IMHO.
OK, you get rid of the -1C.
Apparently, the "next best" killer is the N1k2.
So what do you do if all the previous -1C flyers migrate to the N1K2? Now the N1K2 becomes the "killing machine". The complaints about it start, like they have on the -1C.
OK, we ban the N1K2...where do those flyers go now?
It'll never end. Never. Not until we're all down to just one available plane.
It's easy to avoid a HO if you are anywhere near corner speed. Avoiding almost any other type of kill is mostly SA.
Dare I say it? It's not the plane, it's the pilot....on both ends of the gun. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Just my .02.
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Here's the problem:
Anything now suggested to improve the game is dismissed because there are no changes that will finally end all whining by everyone forever.
I don't think there can be a rational debate on whether to perk the CHog anymore, because so many people hate whining so much they've taken up the cause of defending the CHog merely because it's the most whined about aspect of the game.
Clearly there will always be one AC with the most Air-to-Air kills. But you have to grant that 2-1 is a pretty huge margin. but it's not my main argument. The only 200 built is my main argument.
And I really think you will NOT see most CHog sorties turn into Niki Sorties. I really think they will be divided among a variety of arena planes.
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Torgo's got my vote. Make it a perk plane.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!
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Just remove the c47, give us a ju52, so at least when everythin else is perked, we'll have something with which to shoot back.
AKskurj
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Actually, there are so many chogs out there that I've had a lot of practice scissoring with them, and now it's not the big deal it used to be. VVS planes out-scissor them nicely. Still don't want to be anywhere near that nose though.
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leonid, Kompol
5 GIAP VVS-KA, Knights (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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This all reminds me of WarBirds when half of the aircraft you saw were FW-190-D9s and even more Spitfires.
Like somebody up on the thread mentioned....there will ALWAYS be one aircraft in the list that is more popular than the next two types combined.
Hans.
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let's all fly the C202 !
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I agree with toad
Why don't we all just fly the C-47 and have done with it just fly around, and round,and round, and round and throw goons at each other, but in the end someone will do something amazing with it or 6 C-47 will gang up on one, and this argument will blow up ag....<YAWN>.....ain!
I just get bored of people whinig about how this is uber and thats uber and theres too many people using that aircraft ??? so what take your whooping like a man even if it's 16-1 against you and there all CHogs jusy enjoy the fight while it lasts
Gees, guys get a grip, its a GAME, i.e FUN
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PapaEcho
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"Pull the pin and count to what??"
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More CHog ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
miam (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) the other white meat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Toad
Best words I've heard on this in a long time.
Andy
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both nik and chog suk the arena they both no original planes any beginner can kill my p38 in a niki it's to ufo.
The Chog is giving me more chance in dogfight
unless they gonna spray and prey the snapshot.
ill be gone in one ping.
Any nik that kills me is sure not a better pilot. Don't think when u make a kill in a nik u are are a good fighterpilot.
because it's to damn easy.
My opinon is everyone flying these machines are just to scared to fly a real plane.
I still fly my P38 and i love it, and i swear u ill never see me in a nik NOWAY!!
S! chaps
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Bug, FYI, I've been doing a R.P.C. (Ram Ping Count) when killed by an F4U-1C. So far to date since I've started this, I've asked 7 pilots who killed me comparing the number of pings I heard before dying to the number of flashes the killer saw, and none have been below 10 pings (Which incidently can represent over 20 bullets).
Someone said it best, if you can't handle the 1C, learn to fly better. I find it one of the easiest planes in the arena to kill if you avoid the business end.
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That's what i said a bit i can fight em and rookies stall quikcly in the chog.(spin)
So they dive in and run away (maybe come back when i turn or get lower)
yes the chog flys normally like a plane
but the nik gives me the creeps
really great fights (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
S!
gimmy more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Rgr, Bug, the N1K is Public Enemy Number One in my book, and I engage them first in a furball since they are more of a threat than any other A/C in the game, however I shall fall short of whining that they be removed as others have on the Chog.
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I don't even think the C-Hog is "uber."
I'm not a very good pilot right now (mainly because I was in WB for three years, then quit about when Pyro and HT left, and didn't fly sims at all till I started AH seriously about 2 1/2 months ago) and even I'M not particularly terrified of the CHog.
It IS what kills me most of the time, simply because there are so damn many of them.
I've even flown it a little to see if it has some uber characteristics (none that I can identify.)
I'm not one of those people arguing there are uber badly-modeled UFO maneuvering characteristics..I've never actually seen that yet.
I still think it should be perked. It was a rare AC present only for three months at the end of the war. To me, that's a perk plane.
It just bugs me to see an aircraft near-irrelevant in the war be so common in the arena. It's so common because it's big American Iron with huge quantities of 20mm ammo.
I really believe perking it HAS NO NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES and would create a more interesting plane mix.
Isn't it a bit dull fighting the same AC all the time?
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Originally posted by Torgo:
Isn't it a bit dull fighting the same AC all the time?
For me it is, that's why I fly all A/C types, since alot of pilots are very good in one A/C type, but only a handful of pilots are good in ALL A/C types....something I'm trying to attain.
You might talk to the 13th TAS, I know they primarily fly P51's (Well, did, up to this new version)...our squad flys primarily the Corsair for Mission night, but we mix it up alot too.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-03-2001).]
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You Know why the HOG is popular.... Baa Baa Black sheep! god I wish they would put it on DVD!
The F4u has always been my favorite Air craft so was the n1k2j Shiden kia (I was so dam suprised and happy when Air warrior put it in). I also love the p51d, p51h the p38j and the p47d. But I will always love the hog above all others.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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people will always cry about the air craft. even if you do get them right. the only solution is to limit them all to spits then they would cry about not having anything else to fly. personally I think the n1k2-j and the f4u's are undermodeled for the sake of game play. there both slower then they realy are and the n1k2 doesn't seem to have that ensighn eliminator toque it has in real life. (Both the f4u and the n1k2 where infamous at killing pilots due to tak off engine torque).
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Be afraid that your ride might become the uber ride of choice. The more people fly it.. the less perk points you get for killing in it.
On the other side.. the more people flying another aircraft.. the more its worth when you kill it... and the more targets there are to kill.
End of whine
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322:
both nik and chog suk the arena they both no original planes any beginner can kill my p38 in a niki it's to ufo.
Any nik that kills me is sure not a better pilot. Don't think when u make a kill in a nik u are are a good fighterpilot.
because it's to damn easy.
My opinon is everyone flying these machines are just to scared to fly a real plane.
Ever notice that maybe instead of the Niki and Chog actually being the “Nuisance Uber AH Game play Ruining Death Machines” so much squeaked about, it might just be the opinion of the intellectual giants that piss and moan about them, and that THEY are the real problem?
The vocal few that present such mindless reasons and statements as to why the Nik and Chog are such a problem to the Aces High arena I tend to think are far worse to the arena then any game unbalancing plane. (Which of course, nether the Chog or the Niki are.)
Might just be the reason HTC doesn't say much about it, considering the sources.
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<Candle burning late night near a desk, a pen drops to the diary>....
"Dear Diary,
Today marks the 2nd time that Creamo and I agreed on something, could this be the beginning of something?.....Naaaaaaaa!"
Hehe, J/K
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Perk points are lame. Ive never ever liked perk points or any points system. I think points are for dorks that don't know how to have fun. And it will be snowing in hell before I start flying for points! If points ever come in the way of me flying and having fun I'll can my AH acount. I think all rankings and points do is promote quake type playing battlenet behavior and cheating! next thing you know there will be inflight power ups and bonus rings you can fly threw for 1000 bonus points.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Originally posted by leonid:
Actually, there are so many chogs out there that I've had a lot of practice scissoring with them, and now it's not the big deal it used to be. VVS planes out-scissor them nicely. Still don't want to be anywhere near that nose though.
I flew against the GIAP last night, who were all in La-5s. I took a Chawg to them. I fly the Chawg now just to piss the whiners off.
Anyhow, the GIAP pretty much whacked me. In La-5s. A combo of great teamwork and good flying. I got em a few times, waiting for the odds to go in my favor and diving on them. But the dispersal model makes flying against excellent evasive pilots harder, and forget taking the Chawg into a turn fight with the Spitfire they had with them flown by Asmodan.
X2
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When I see a high Hawg I luv to fly straight and level to bring him down, end of story!
Creamo I think Rip has a crush on you.
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Well do like i do when the air is just FULL of Chogs. Jump out of your plane(Seafire) and jump into a niki. Niki is the best plane in Ah IMO and it can turn with anything and climb with just about anything and its guns are just as good as the Chogs. I feel if I have the alt on em I can take on 5 or 6 chogs at one time. If im lower I can take on about 3 at a time in a niki. So do like i do when they wanna bring about 20 Chogs over your base. Retaliate with NIKI! She's a BAAAAAAAD squeak!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quit day dreaming buddy!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Someone said it best, if you can't handle the 1C, learn to fly better.
I think that'd be me. Been killin' 'um since day 1 and still killin' 'um today. Will keep on killin' 'um tommorrow. That and them N1K2's sure do blow up nicely! <BFG>
-SW
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Originally posted by llbm_MOL:
If im lower I can take on about 3 at a time in a niki. So do like i do when they wanna bring about 20 Chogs over your base. Retaliate with NIKI! She's a BAAAAAAAD squeak!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn't it weird that the historical name of George just got totally tossed, mostly because of the icon naming decision?
If you said to any other WW2 Simmer outside of AH that you liked the Niki, nobody would know what you were talking about.
Just find it strange...
X2
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The proper historical name of the Niki is "N1K2-J Shinden-Kai" not "George" or "George-21".
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Karnak, just about everyone and their family pet know that, its just easier to type in "Niki" into the text buffer rather than "George",
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Originally posted by Karnak:
The proper historical name of the Niki is "N1K2-J Shinden-Kai" not "George" or "George-21".
Actually the n1k1-j shiden (violet lightning)and n1k2-j shiden kai (Violet lightning Modified) where both code named "George" by the allies as where the Zero zeke frank jack tony oscar rex and Niki (totaly difrent plane btw). the reason we call the n1k2-j a niki is mostly due to Air warriors icon system they took the n1k2-j and called (wrongly) a n1k1 and iconed as N1K1. every one started calling is a Niki and the name stuck.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-05-2001).]
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The N1K is uber and needs to be fixed. The other day, I came upon one that was lower and slower than my P-51D. I zoomed down on him from 6 o'clock, just under 500 true. at D900, he did a half roll and split-S under me, so I zoomed up at about 60 degrees. I looked back to see where he was going, and saw that he was now on my six, climbing and CLOSING on me.
"No Problem," I figured. "I have WAY more E than he could possibly have." I kept climbing, figuring he would run out of E and have to go nose down. Well, for whatever reason, I ran out of E before he did and had to nose over to avoid a stall.
Before I could get my flaps back up, I was dead. How the hell does a lower, slower plane suddenly get the E to climb like that?
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My turn to armchair this debate, here is my opinion.
1. Do not get rid of any planes.
2. Change hog plane IDs to F4C, and f4D.
3. Model engine and gun management.
4. Make torques plane bright pink so it is easy to spot(kidding).
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It's Shiden-Kai not Shinden-Kai. If you're going to correct other people, at least get it right!
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Didn't the c-47 have a side gun?
NUTTZ
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Midnight, I've experienced that myself. The only explanation i can see is him pulling excessive g's thus cutting the corner and going for a 1/3rd a second snapshot as the distance gets smallest.
Unfortunately to me they just seem to hang stuck gaining behind me when I do that.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)