Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Maniac on November 21, 2000, 07:32:00 AM
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Am i the only one left that preffered the 1.03 FM against the 1.04?
Am i the only whiner left? <looks around) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really miss the "chess of the skyes". Oh man that description of AH (pre 1.04) was sooo good.
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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No maniac you're not alone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) I preferred 1.03 to 1.04 and I'm still around and will be for quite awhile. there are several others as well. I'm looking forward to 1.05.. cant seem to kill a bomber anymore so might as well try killin carriers and pt boats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Bane
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I really miss the "Chess of the Skyes". Oh man that description of AH (pre 1.04) was sooo good
I love that description! I loved 1.03 indeed ... you could see much more E-fighting. "Chess of the Skyes" very nice, even if in Italian it means an awful thing, LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I liked the 1.03 FM very much. I hated, absolutely hated, the initial 1.04 release but I have managed to adapt to the one we have now. Whether the 1.03 FM or the 1.04 FM is more realistic I honestlly do not know. I will wait till somone like Badboy releases a study (his will be available soon I heard) and I will not take simple conjecture or comparison to another "sim"s FM as the benchmark as for what should be realistic. In other words, "it feels more like WB's now" does not wash with me nor does it indicate any sense of realism at all. AH models more in the FM.
But to be honest this topic could have been titled "Soon all that liked the .83 FM, or 1.001 FM, or 1.02 FM are gone..." Do you have any indication that the change from the 1.03 to 1.04 FM is the reason or is this post serving some other personal agenda you have?
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-21-2000).]
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No this is an post about me missing the "chess of the skyes" based on the 1.03 FM.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Yea was a lot easier to kill spits'n nikis in 1.03 .. but oh well i have adapted and would prolly curse if we got 1.03 back now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
DW6
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I also enjoyed "chess of the sky", but I am adapting to "paintball of the sky". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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To answer your specific questions:
1) no
2) no
To answer the title of your post: so what?
Fury
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Liked 1.03 much more than 1.04 FM.
Let's see what 1.05 brings.
blitz
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FM's are like girls, you get to know the quirks about them, then learn to adjust to them in order to have fun! LOL!
I'm currently flying CFS2, and even with Wells FM patches, I think the FM's truly suck, but hey, I'm enjoying the sim.
I preferred V1.03 models to 1.04, but the evidence provided by many on this board suggested that they were way off from the historical data, so, where do you draw the line between game play and historical?
Personally, I'd rather have it closer to historical when it comes to FM, but I'm willing to make sacrifices for game play.
So what is this post saying? I'm here for the long haul. I'm gonna try WW2 online, WB3, etc. But my main base will be here. I enjoy the frequent updates, the customer service, the community, my squad, the vehicles, the prospect of the future.
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(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/corsairsmall.gif)
=CO= VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
Member of 'MAG-33' (Click here) (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
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"If you cannot learn to do something well,
learn to enjoy doing it poorly"
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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-21-2000).]
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1.03 was more chesslike than 1.04.
I absolutely totally hated 1.04 when it came out. Am used to it now though.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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1.03 was nice, gave a lot of plane's a competitive edge they are lacking in 1.04. Although, if 1.04 is indeed an accurate(as close as PCs can get anyway) representation of what these things could do in RL, then I like 1.04 more.
-SW
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No and no.
It has been clearly demonstrated that the sustained turn capabilities of 1.03 planes were significantly undermodelled. Tests of 1.04 planes come much closer to historical figures and analytical predictions for induced drag and sustained turn performance.
I liked 1.03, enjoyed it a lot. But 1.04 is so nice. Finally we have fighter plane FMs instead of bomber FMs. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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1.03 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
1.04 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Adapt, Adjust, Overcome.....
Nuff said.
Dog out............
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Im still around (sorta (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)). I dont remember N1k,s being all that easy to kill. I flew it most of the time.
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" the only one thing that is permanent that is change "
I didn't like 1.03 as much as i do 1.04
but did not flown it as much as this version.
Still it stays a chess game. only a bit more hectic
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I have no idea about how a combat aircraft should manoever (which I suspect is the case for the majority of people here). All I can go on is the published data, and like Funked says, this shows that 1.03 was unrealistic compared to 1.04.
I much prefer 1.04 and have done better with this version than 1.03 (although I was a raw newbie back then).
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I liked 1.03 better. You could at least bleed the energy of a niki or a spit. in 1.04, even a starting pilot can always find a way to aim the nose to you.
How well... who cares (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Interestingly, I bet if you fly 1.04 the way you flew 1.03, you'd be a much better pilot.
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What Wardog said.
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1.03 any day over 1.04.
Whilst the aircraft may well have bled too much energy in 1.03, this served as a tradeoff for the uber pilot capabilities (unlimited strength, perfect G tolerance etc).
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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Hmmm For me its pretty ironic.. I think you Americans have a saying that goes something like: "Be carefull what you wish for.."
Since open beta I had wished that HTC would make AH FMs a bit lighter, a bit less speed bleeding. And a bit lesss favourizing the E-fighters. Easy to hit and kill combined with heavy speed bleed, gave all the odds to the hi P51 who was on the low Spit.
When version 1.04 came out I got a chock, - "WHERE WAS MY OLD BELOVED ACESHIGH GONE?" I felt it like a completely new game, and felt I had lost my old game.
I didnt whine about it at least not on the BBS, because I thought that Hitech was using the "turn up" trick, like the trick I used at home when I was teenager. When I wanted to hear some music loud, I turned up the stereo very loud, and when my parents asked me to turn down, I turned it a bit down to satisfy them, and I could hear loud music while everybody was happy.
But HTC did never turn FMs a bit back again, and thats a shame. I think the FM needed to be changed in the direction of 1.04 but HTC gave it a bit too much. Now the gamebalance is tipped, and its the turnfighters that holds the best cards.
Turning it a bit back towards 1.03 would make a perfect balance between E-fighting and turnfighting.
Dont get me wrong.. I still like AH. But its a fact that 1.04 allmost threw me off, and I still feel like a rookie in 1.04, because my work isnt giving me time enuf for training myself up to pre 1.04 standard.
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GrinBird
[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 11-22-2000).]
[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Kats,
if you fly 1.04 the way you flew 1.03 you'll see weird things. Like fighters doing a 180 flat turn without loosing much E and gaining on you and shoot you down. Even if you extend without pulling any G. But what-the-hell-do-I-know? Ah, yes they call it Lead-Turn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) My leave is ending, I miss you all, so I'm entitled to whine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Yehaw, the gattmastah will be back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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Gatt, not be argumentative - and my flying time in AH is extremely limited, but this is what throws me off.
Wasn't the FM re-adjustment across the board? If so, shouldn't everything still be relative with the only exception being that all planes give you an extra latitude in manouvering proportional to it's original manouverablity?
If this is NOT the case, then I suggest the new FM might have magnified certain flaws in the FM that always had existed - calling for more fine tuning.
As far as playability and acurate FM's are concerened, you cannot knowingly dumb down FM's because people say they had more fun. The draw in games such as these and at these prices is the perception that you are actually experiencing the nuances of the different FM's and combat. If you destroy this perception, you also destroy the motivation of players to take ACM seriously and commit to the hobby.
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What Kats said...and Wardog.......
I want the FM to be AS CLOSE! as possible to the real thing. As far as the T&B planes haveing the edge....i think not. I turn my Jug with them all the time. And actually win once in awhile.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!
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well... I'm one of the ones who came to AH because of 1.04 and i know of half a dozen others. I HATED 1.03 and earlier.... it blurred all the the turns unrealistically. It gave way to much empahasis on climb and speed while taking away from an ac's ability to avoid. I come to fly simulated WWII ac not play chess... in the sky or otherwise. In 1.03 any plane that was below you was ded. He could not evade a decent pilot. I think a lot of people liked that aspect even if it was unrealistic.... To them, it was "chess of the sky" to me it was phony FM with unhistoric performance. If those same people are leaving then i probly won't miss em.
In WWII u just couldn't turn with (and kill by it) certain planes. AH 1.03 and earlier ignored that fact. 1.04 gioves back some ACM ability and some historic strengths and weaknesses to some of the AC. 1.03 was wrong and... it excluded some very fine planes and acm. If you could/would only fly one particular type of ac or style then certainly, you would like all the other ac to sit still and allow you to blast em out of the sky. If you like to simulate flying the strengths and weaknesses of WWII ac then 1.04 is the better game. To be in a Spit or Hog and turning in the mush world of 1.03 while some pig of a (LOL) 190A8 follows my turn long enough to blast me was not that fun.
lazs
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Kats,
My take on this is that 1.03 (unintentionally) compensated for the lack of a pilot fatigue model, with limitations in the flight model. The result was -- in the minds of many players -- more "realistic" ACM. Since the plane would burn E rapidly in hard maneuvers, the player needed to be conservative with ACM, planning and executing every move with care.
Since the turn rates and E maintanence were increased in 1.04, without the addition of pilot fatigue, a player can now yank and bank in and out of blackout with abandon. To many, this seems less "realistic", or at least "less fun". Others love it.
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"Interestingly, I bet if you fly 1.04 the way you flew 1.03, you'd be a much better pilot."
Yes and no, sorry aint got time to go deeper in to the discussion right now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Never mind, this is only "take or leave" and I've decided to stay. But I cant help laughing ... eheh
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 11-23-2000).]
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Gents,
The one thing that everybody is forgetting about 1.03 is that while it was an easier FM for some it was Wrong. Glide ratio's on A/C were on average 4 or 5 to 1. That is 5 feet forward for every 1 foot down. This is a good measure of either E-retention or just plain lift being mismodeled. In 1.04 the F4U is at a 12:1 ratio which is historically accurate. This lack of ability to either glide or retain energy gave A/C like the Me109G10 with a high power to weight ratio an unrealistic advantage. As soon as the fight got slow the aircraft with the best acceleration would win. This is not realistic. The A/C with the best wing loading should have the advantage ie. the Zero versus 109G10.
Remember it is not enough not to like something. It has to be proven wrong otherwise it is just wining.
[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 11-22-2000).]
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I find it terribly amusing when people talk about certain aircraft "not bleeding E". Every aircraft I've ever flown in this game bleeds plenty of E when I fly em. Occasionally enemy aircraft seem to do interesting things when I'm fighting them but whenever I fly that same aircraft it sure doesn't seem uber then (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Hooligan
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I tend to think the 1.04 model may be more historically correct from what eveidence there has been posted so far. I liked the 1.03 FM cause i really favoured E-Fighting/B&Z tactics over T&B tactics. Those who prefer E tactics found that their old 1.03 tricks werent working as easy as they used to, so we had to relearn what was workable and what wasn't.
Its kinda annoying sometimes when a con seems to summon E from nowhere and nail you as you zoom (normally a misjudgment of relative E), but it also means that if your at the disadvantage you have at least some chance of fighting back.
It still is a game of chess, just that the rules are slightly different now.
I still rather would have the 1.03 FM tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
As WD said: adapt - Pure darwinism...
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Kats: "Interestingly, I bet if you fly 1.04 the way you flew 1.03, you'd be a much better pilot.
"
If you fly 1.04 the way you flew 1.03, you'd be a much deader pilot... especially when flying a non infinite-E plane...
More than once I experienced those 180-and-still-gain-on-you-while-you-did-not-pull-the-slightest-E-turns... that's not only annyoing but purely unrealistic by every physic law.
If T&B was the only way historic engagements worked why did most warplanes trade speed for manouverability in their development.
I really loved the 1.03 FM - as previoulsy said you were able to bleed your foes E using cunning moves and foresight. T&B and E-Fighters were on a equal stepping - giving credit to the better pilot not the machine. Nowadays Nikis and Spits can just break-turn on every attack you make without loosing any of their E. It doesn't need any skill anymore to negate an attack without putting yourself into a bad situation...
AH is developing into the wrong direction IMHO. First it was a sim with the most advanced FM out there - hard to learn and even harder to master. The plane set was more or less balanced, superior plane characteristics had to be bought with a real drawbacks in another. T&B planes were successful but had a hard time with well flown E-Fighters - which were the home of the experten anyway. Then more and more "pilot-aids" were added, the FM was tuned down and plane set lost its balance. Sure, the game is now more accessible to new pilots (which is not bad at all) but that makes it feel more like AW3 to me. My favourite ride there was the Emil... used the same tactics as our Nik and Spit driver use nowadays... and that's not why I came to AH.
For me it looks like AH is DE-volving at the moment... I really hope 1.5 will even out some of the x-phenomenons but since HTC is concentrating on the navy I doubt this will be the case.
Yup, the navy... I know a lot of people want it to appear here and I see no reason why it shouldn't but I think that the flying part should be refined and perfected first. It seems to be the HTC trys everything to attract as many people as possible before WW2Online or WB3 come ashore. Using big, colourful neon advertisments - AH is realising one of my greatest fears I have for WW2Online... wanting to be jack of all trades while master in none... I think what made AH so attractive is/was the flying part... this should be the way AH goes with all consequence...
bah - to tired to think & type... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
to put it in a nutshell:
1.03 HUI
1.04 PFUI
--> in german...
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Hmmm. If the new FM does a better job of matching the RL numbers, wouldn't that mean that the new FM is more realistic, and therefore "better?" And folks are actually leaving because of that?
Things that make ya go hmmm.
--jedi
[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 11-22-2000).]
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I only got to vote once.
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1.03 please,or a middle ground between the two.
BnZ is basically dead in this version. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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b&z is alive in 1.04 more than ever before!!!
my best b&z kill streak in 1.03 was 40 kills in a p38.
my best b&z streak in 1.04 start of tour 9 was 89 kills using p51, p38, f4u1d, 109g10 and spit and it ended by a lucky 1 ping 88mm ripping off my spitfires wing as i took off from a captured knit field next to a factory (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
and even after that my streak in the p-38L during tour 9 was 61 kills and 0 deaths and landed every one of em (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
b&z dead?
only more dangerous if done poorly.
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In 1.03 any plane that was below you was ded. He could not evade a decent pilot. I think a lot of people liked that aspect even if it was unrealistic....
Hmmm "unrealistic" ?????
"Everything in the air that is beneath me, especially if it is a one-seater ... is lost, for it cannot shoot to the rear"
Baron Manfred von Richthofen.
"Always above, seldom on the same level, never underneath"
Major Edward "Mick" Mannock, RAF
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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In 1.03 any plane that was below you was ded. He could not evade a decent pilot. I think a lot of people liked that aspect even if it was unrealistic....
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Sheesh, quoting the red baron about WWI planes.... You want 1.04 planes to bleed e like a WWI plane? I think that is the case.
I find it kinda laughable that people would sacrafice realistic FM's so that they could "balance" out the T&B and B&Z... In this case (as in allmost all) the end does not justify the means... The "end" of balancing out TB and BZ is false... The slowere poorer climbing and accelerating TB planes give up everything and the BZ planes give up nothing. There is no balance. The new FM is not only accurate but gives balance. climb and acceleration are still as useful as ever but now an agile plane can avoid a clumsy bz attack whoes only skill had been to plan to be above his enemy with a decent exit srtrat.
All I remember was a bunch of guys circling around waiting for someone to engage another plane so they could bz him. everyone ran away from any hint of a fight that might have them at a 1K disadvantage. No acm ever. Good ol days my butt.
lazs
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Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Remember it is not enough not to like something. It has to be proven wrong otherwise it is just wining.
[/B]
Originally posted by Citabria:
b&z dead?
only more dangerous if done poorly.
[/B]
Ditto & Ditto.
Cheers,
Pepe
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What Wardog said but that's just typically of a Canadian. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Popeye, I agree with you on the pilot fatigue issue.
In Janes F18 for eg, they more G's you pull the less g tolerence your pilot has. IE quicker onset of black out.
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<What Kirin said>!!!!!!!!
Maik
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"More than once I experienced those 180-and-still-gain-on-you-while-you-did-not-pull-the-slightest-E-turns..."
I don't know how many times we've heard this, and still no film. For all the times it supposedly happened, you'd think someone would have film.
If you have the alt advantage and BnZ a TnB con, you control the fight..you can engage and disengage at will. If you try and turn with him, you should lose. I don't understand the problem...the fact that he can now avoid you with a break turn? If he goes slightly nose down on a break turn, why should he lose E?
"If T&B was the only way historic engagements worked..."
Huh?..who said that?
bowser
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If he goes slightly nose down on a break turn, why should he lose E?
Because total energy is a combination of both airspeed and altitude. By going nose-low the opponent is automatically sacrificing energy UNLESS at the same time he is increasing his airspeed sufficiently to regain his previous altitude and airspeed.
A 'break' turn is by definition a max G turn, and any max G turn, even a split S, is going to burn energy.
Unless you're in a Nik, of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Well said, Lazs!!!
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Well, if u stay low whit 1.03 FM u can live whit no problems.
Just learn how to avoid B&Z strato alt fiters. I did that in my poor c205, i was always under B&Z attak and I have won most of these attak (why climb to 25k when u can fight at 15k and win??).
If players use only G10 (mommy mommy let me run) P-51 (see G10) or others fast AC the result is that, everyone run away cause is not capaple to fight if in disadvantage (anyway hystorical accurate IMO)!!!
Whit 1.04 they just give at certein planes an incredible advantage that forced most player to use only these planes (F4U-C, Niki, Spit IX). Whit the Ammo/damage model we have yet these planes rules. U can find dweb pilots on these AC and kill them whitout problem but an average pilot can perform very well (if his SA is poor then is killable). Where is the balance mentioned in 1.04????
<S> kirin nice post.
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I'm confused.. do we want balance between the planes or a realistic FM?
Seems the ones that say 1.03 was more correct throw in "balance" somewhere in their statement and something like "realistic FM". Balancing planes with one another in no way resembles a realistic FM.
1.04 is good, I fly a 190A5 and the only planes I fear is a bunch of them on my ass.
Energy bleed is very much present, maybe not so much as in 1.03, but that's because there was too much drag on the control surfaces for 1.03. So far, no one has produced numbers saying that 1.03 was accurate and 1.04 was not, it's all been "this can't be..." "this shouldn't happen".. and the rest.
-SW
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the N1K bleeds E like any other Fighter. It only seems to have almost no torque effect, which allows a pilot to zoom up until 50MPH or less without getting in a spin.
Add a realitic (brutal) torque for a 2000Hp engine below 100Mph and some strange manoevres won´t happen anymore.
I often fly G10 and often think when i watch a N1K: UNPOSSIBLE, unbelievable.
But i also flew a N1K, once against a good G10, and i thought myself: UNPOSSIBLE, UNBELIEVABLE what this G10 can do...
1.04 is way better imo. Best thing in 1.03 you could do in a 109 was to let the machine run, or to do as little as possible to build up E.
1.04 you can do some nice things now. You can act now, and it´s not always the machine that gave you the advantage at the end.
People are leaving because it´s too easy now? Pah, they wouldn´t leave when they have more success now. They got shot down more often in 1.04? So, is it harder now, or easier...?
niklas
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"A 'break' turn is by definition a max G turn, and any max G turn, even a split S, is going to burn energy."
I've never heard it defined that way. Also, we may be confusing energy with speed. My reply was to a post that used the term E but obviously meant speed. It bothered him that after several break turns the TnB plane wasn't wallowing at slow speed like in the good 'ol days. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
At most I'll pull enough Gs so that I'm on the edge of blackout (around 5g), just enough so a high speed con can't turn with me. Certainly not max Gs, otherwise I can't view the con. If the con is really motoring you hardly have to pull/turn at all because his turn radius is so large, he can't pull lead.
As for losing speed/e, if your diving slightly at the same time your turning, your not going to lose speed. Obviously if the con keeps BnZing you, you're going to continually lose alt, but you're going to be able too maintain your speed.
bowser
[This message has been edited by bowser (edited 11-24-2000).]
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In 1.03 I used to take a Fw190A5, and go up to 15K. rarely higher. Many times lower.
Some can say that the A5 in 1.03 was uber. Ok, I did just the same with the P51, ACTUALLY CLOSE FIGHTING IN IT (I.E. no running like a chicken if I see someone with 2mph more of speed or 4 feet more of altitude. like most 51 drivers used to do). I got exactly (I mean EXACTLY) same results
Being bounced by cons all day long. All day long. I mean, ALL day long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
K/D 3, aprox. And I used to be bounced by multiple cons...and stay in the fight. And winning it.
in fact one of my most funny entertainings was to go into the TA, and ask someone there to bounce me with 5-10K of altitude over me (at 2-3K in a Fw190 with 4 cannons and 50% fuel). 90% of the times the fite ended with me winning.
I wont say 1.03 was more or less realistic. I say that anyone who says that in 1.03 the one lower was death is a completely inutil pilot, or the lousier stick ever.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-25-2000).]
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Originally posted by niklas:
1.04 is way better imo. Best thing in 1.03 you could do in a 109 was to let the machine run, or to do as little as possible to build up E.
Niklas, contact me. I have a couple of films in 109G10 close fighting use in 1.03.
Either you never flew a G10 in 1.03, or you had no idea on how to use one.
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ram... obviously i wasn't talking about someone with your god like abilities... I meant that given anything like equal pilots those results were assured. Bet i can find a few guys that would kill you every time using a 2k advantage while you were in a 1.03 version 190 tho.
Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes? Is it that advantage that you miss?
visco... adjusting FM's for balance doesn't really work. WWII planes had strengths and weaknesses. If you adjust the FM by say... blurring the turn rates, then, the high wing loading planes give up nothing while the low wing loading planes are unfairly handicaped. It appears that you choose to fly only high wing loaded planes. That is fine. You should be able to mix it up with other high wing loaded planes but... A skilled pilot in a low wing loaded plane should be immune from a clumsy B&Z attack (just like in WWII). No problem right? don't get low and slow in a crowd with your high wingload plane and they can't hurt ya. certainly, you will still have the advantage if you use a little skill.
lazs
[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 11-25-2000).]
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes? Is it that advantage that you miss?
Obviosly you didn't flew 1.03.
and note that i said that I did it with a P51 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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RAM-just ignore Spaz,he`s into circle jerks. <TnB> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I cant agree with your assessment that the strategy of ACM has been lost in 1.04. E management is just as important now as it was before and just as often as I have used a better E state in a poorer turning plane to beat another, so have other pilots done to me. E fighting is alive and well, my friends, and dont think its just a T&B arena. Plenty of us 51, Tiffy, 190 and 109G10 pilots in here who will say they cant turn worth sh*T yet they rack up kills. They fly those planes the way they were supposed to be flown....using E fighting tactics.
You give me a 2-3K lower Nik or Spit and 90% of the time, its going to be dead. Zekes on the other hand are very difficult for me to kill since they can turn on a dime forever, but that is another story. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-25-2000).]
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Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes?
Lazs, its good to see your honesty hasn't changed since you first made your name on the WB board.
You are still an inveterate liar.
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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jekl...Hmm... maybe I'm wrong. I bet that most would agree tho that the 190A5 and to a lesser extent, the p47, were not only the last additions to 1.03 but... They changed the least in 1.04 I say that they were closer to a 1.04 plane than to a 1.03... Liar might be a little strong tho... Maybe there is another instance that you can think of where I was a "liar" ?
jizzhead... no, not circle jerks but... I do like the planes to have their real abilities and it is nice to use a little acm once in a while eh?
ram... with the exception of gods like yourself... you will admit that my premis is correct? Bet I can find a lot of guys that could kill you in 1.03 if you are in a Spit and they have a 2 k alt advantage.
I didn't like 1.03. It wasn't right. it ignored the stengths of some planes while exagerating the stengths of others.
lazs
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
jekl...Hmm... maybe I'm wrong. I bet that most would agree tho that the 190A5 and to a lesser extent, the p47, were not only the last additions to 1.03 but... They changed the least in 1.04 I say that they were closer to a 1.04 plane than to a 1.03... Liar might be a little strong tho... Maybe there is another instance that you can think of where I was a "liar" ?
You never flew a Fw190A5 in 1.03, and I doubt you have ever done it in 1.04.
Liar dont know presuntuous a lot.
ram... with the exception of gods like yourself... you will admit that my premis is correct? Bet I can find a lot of guys that could kill you in 1.03 if you are in a Spit and they have a 2 k alt advantage.
I doubt it. I mean I doubt anyone would find me in a spit, at any altitude.
And yes, of course a lot of them will kill me...but not all the times. And most people in the MA couldnt do it.
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ram... i flew against em... I flew em offline to test turn. Are you saying that I am wrong or, are you saying that unless i flew around in the ma and killed/got killed in one, i don't really know? The A5 has changed little comparitively. It hit it's numbers fairly close in 1.03 and it does in 1.04. If you enjoyed the advantage it gave you in 1.03 over the other planes then that's fine but... I would rather have ALL the planes perform as they should. Just like u don't fly Spits in the ma... I don't fly luftwhiner planes.
lazs
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
ram... i flew against em... I flew em offline to test turn. Are you saying that I am wrong or, are you saying that unless i flew around in the ma and killed/got killed in one, i don't really know? The A5 has changed little comparitively. It hit it's numbers fairly close in 1.03 and it does in 1.04. If you enjoyed the advantage it gave you in 1.03 over the other planes then that's fine but... I would rather have ALL the planes perform as they should. Just like u don't fly Spits in the ma... I don't fly luftwhiner planes.
lazs
Sure you will know more than the dedicated Fw pilots in AH, people like me who have hundreds of hours in AH's Fw190, while you may have flown it 4 times to prove how overmodelled was in 1.03. And I doubt you flew it more than once in 1.04-so I laugh at your time in Fw190s.
The 190 was turned a bit down in acceleration, but turns way better than in 1.03. In 1.04, a Fw190A8, turns better than the A5 in the previous version. Go figure.
Get lost, Lazs. Jekyll is right, you are nothing but a liar.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-26-2000).]
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Hey RAM I thought you quit? I guess you will continue to "contribute" to the AH community even if you don't play anymore.
If you have so much anger inside you that you have to make negative posts about FM's you don't fly and events you aren't participating in, I suggest professional help.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-26-2000).]
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Right RAM seek help , you are hurting yourself and others IMO .
I mean this in a nice way too BTW .
spro
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Originally posted by funked:
Hey RAM I thought you quit? I guess you will continue to "contribute" to the AH community even if you don't play anymore.
If you have so much anger inside you that you have to make negative posts about FM's you don't fly and events you aren't participating in, I suggest professional help.
? one needs to be a paying member to give his opinions on AH's FM?
I do fly-currently the RP4 has given a new blow of life to the Falcon4 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)-and I dont say anything I havent said last 2 months: The nik FM is that of an UFO.
And no, I have no anger inside me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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? one needs to be a paying member to give his opinions on AH's FM?
No.. not at all.
Its just that you decided to condemn the community when you left the game. Now, you only come back with an attitude that rivals the worst people on this board.
You have made yourself your own worst enemy.
AKDejaVu
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So ram... I am a liar? Well....I don't show the A5 changing that much. Looking at the tests of a few others seems to confirm it. Still, I may be wrong but for someone as full of toejam as you are to call someone else a liar..... LOL
lazs
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
You have made yourself your own worst enemy. AKDejaVu
So true, DejaVu!
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The bridge continues to burn. Nothing left of framework, with unstable waters below.