Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: shaky1 on June 30, 2004, 11:42:55 PM
-
The ease in which a plane can kill a panzer turret is just plain stupid they couldnt do it in WW2 unless they came straight down and fired from 300 or less with 20 or 30mm cannons and that was a maybe in the game a hurri or typh or even a pony can straf from almost any angle and kill the turret in a few rounds why is that? I dont mind having rockets and bombs dropped on me but to let someone fly around and kill turrets at will in a plane with guns is RIDICULOUS.
LTARprts
-
<---------Pulls up a chair.Whens the show start?
-
1. Grant main battle tanks immunity against machine guns, and cannon fire upto 30mms. Let only the specialized anti-tank cannons(IL-2 23mm cannons, VickerS 40mms, NS-37 37mm..) be able to pierce tanks.
2. In turn, let the tanks be even more easily damaged by gunfire than it is now, when the cupola is "open" - a person is sitting at the pintle gun.
-
Stop stalking me dude:p
-
Agrre with Kweassa, Panzers and Ostys main gun is ridiculously easy to knock out.
-
I think that is a great idea I couldnt agree more
LTARprts
-
In WWII, Panzerfaust's, mines and enemy armor killed more tanks than A/C:eek:
-
kweassa,
The NS-37 on our Yak-9T was never loaded with AP ammo according to Tony Williams. He said it was loaded with HE and was intended for air superiority.
Kev367th,
I agree about the Panzer IV H, but the Ostwind's turret armor is much thinner (20mm piercable probably) and open topped.
-
BB seems to have issues right now.
-
Osty was opened turret - heck even 7.2mm fired into the top would richochet all over the inside.
-
I take out turrets with a zeke routinely...kinda sad.
-
Oy Vey,
Are we going to have to have the guys pull out the Armor Penetration charts for .50 Cal and 20mm again? Please say it ain't so. :rolleyes:
I know this is a sore spot for the ground war types, but keep in mind that this game is not an accurate sim of actual WW2 conditions. Yes, in the WW2 probably very few Pzr IV turrets were knocked out by strafing from fighter aircraft. But in WW2 you also didn't have the ability to go round and round at leisure on near perfect runs continuously loading up the rear top turret armor with AP rounds as we can in AH2.
Also keep in mind that we use more Ostys in a single AH2 night than the Jerries produced during the whole war. You get to drive around in a "buttoned" state with "unbuttoned views," we never have to deal with the fact that a commander using a pintle gun is exposed and could be disposed of with the puniest 7.62, the radio antennas are never shot away, etc., etc., etc.
The imbalances balance out.
- SEAGOON
-
Be a man...up a TIGGER!!
-
Be a man!! up a TIGGER!
-
Originally posted by MOIL
In WWII, Panzerfaust's, mines and enemy armor killed more tanks than A/C:eek:
please tell me were you got these facts? Since the most decorated german pilot was a tank killer ju87 pilot over 600 kills alone of tanks, and russians had many pilots with 500 kills plus of tanks, never seen german comment damn be afraid of sherman but seen many comments il2 is a flying tank.
let alone the British typhoon which was brought in just to kill tanks. Brits use to destoy first tank and last tank to block tanks in then have field day. One mission that comes to mine is 2 tiffy's killed 30 tanks in 3 sorties.
-
Originally posted by WilldCrd
Be a man!! up a TIGGER!
The wonderful thing about TIGGERS, is TIGGERS are wonderful things.........
I think you meant a TIGER, not the cute, lovable WInne the Pooh character TIGGER, right?:)
-
Originally posted by debuman
The wonderful thing about TIGGERS, is TIGGERS are wonderful things.........
I think you meant a TIGER, not the cute, lovable WInne the Pooh character TIGGER, right?:)
no i meant TIGGERS. Tiggers bounce!!
I like to bounce over to the enmy GV's and blow the crap outta them!!
Tiggers really are wonderful things
-
I think you mean disabled very few where destroyed by planes of course disabled is almost as good as destroyed but since the engine was the primary target most where repaired to fight again
LTArprts
-
Tanks reported "killed" by passing aircraft pilots never was a reliable report. For all they knew as soon as they flew off the crew crawled back in to start up and drive said "killed" tank away.
-
please tell me were you got these facts? Since the most decorated german pilot was a tank killer ju87 pilot over 600 kills alone of tanks, and russians had many pilots with 500 kills plus of tanks, never seen german comment damn be afraid of sherman but seen many comments il2 is a flying tank.
It's an established fact.
Strafing armoured vehicles were vastly ineffective compared to bombs and rockets, and lobbing ordnance itself was also vastly inefficient compared to taking them out with proper countermeasures on the ground. IIRC only 5 out of every 100 rockets fired ever found their target in real life(or something like that.)
Anti tank guns and other tanks, were the most effective way of dealing with tanks. Rudel was a freak of nature, and using his jaw-dropping accomplishments for analyzing effectiveness of A2G runs against tanks is like the Stahanov Movement.
Also, the Ju87Gs and IL-2, HS-129s and such were highly specialized planes specifically designed to take out tanks at low-altitude attacks. With the exception these handful of specialized planes, the "normal" fighterbombers were vastly inefficient in dealing with enemy tanks. The fighterbombers went after what made the tanks run - fuel stores, resupply lines, railways, bridges, and etc etc., not the tanks themselves.
Tony Williams has had discussions with us in the past in the A/V forums, about this very issue, and that's what he pointed out.
-
Originally posted by rod367th
please tell me were you got these facts? Since the most decorated german pilot was a tank killer ju87 pilot over 600 kills alone of tanks, and russians had many pilots with 500 kills plus of tanks, never seen german comment damn be afraid of sherman but seen many comments il2 is a flying tank.
let alone the British typhoon which was brought in just to kill tanks. Brits use to destoy first tank and last tank to block tanks in then have field day. One mission that comes to mine is 2 tiffy's killed 30 tanks in 3 sorties.
Considering the Germans produced roughly 4500 Panthers and roughly 1500 Tigers, to say the Russians had *many* pilots with 500+ kills on tanks is mostly absurd.
-
One mission that comes to mine is 2 tiffy's killed 30 tanks in 3 sorties.
Another comes into mind is 12 Typhoons attacking a large column of 60+ tanks, reporting 24 destroyed. In the German logs, the records of that day was "6 Tigers damaged".
-
. Grant main battle tanks immunity against machine guns, and cannon fire upto 30mms. Let only the specialized anti-tank cannons(IL-2 23mm cannons, VickerS 40mms, NS-37 37mm..) be able to pierce tanks.
Sounds good, allow me this if you will please: IMHO, .50's and their german/Japanese counterparts should be able to "track" tanks?
-
. Grant main battle tanks immunity against machine guns, and cannon fire upto 30mms. Let only the specialized anti-tank cannons(IL-2 23mm cannons, VickerS 40mms, NS-37 37mm..) be able to pierce tanks.
Sounds good, allow me this if you will please: IMHO, .50's and their german/Japanese counterparts should be able to "track" tanks?
-
(http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v156/ststang2/minigun.jpg)
-
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
(http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v156/ststang2/minigun.jpg)
Prts, you must be the CEO of Kimberly-Clarke (Kleenex), when are the noiseless Tissues due out? IN IN
Karaya
-
50's and their german/Japanese counterparts should be able to "track" tanks?
You mean detracking them? Sounds reasonable.
-
Nice pic
-
Originally posted by debuman
The wonderful thing about TIGGERS, is TIGGERS are wonderful things.........
I think you meant a TIGER, not the cute, lovable WInne the Pooh character TIGGER, right?:)
i believe the exact phrase was:
'The wonderfull thing about being a Tigger is, I'm the only one!'
but who am i to correct..... ;)
-
Originally posted by mechanic
i believe the exact phrase was:
'The wonderfull thing about being a Tigger is, I'm the only one!'
but who am i to correct..... ;)
well you could be right. Its been YEARS since I saw any of that stuff. I think you've got WAY to much time on your hands batty!:D
-
Ian Gooderson's 'Air Power at the Battlefront' (http://rhino.shef.ac.uk:3001/mr-home/hobbies/rocket.txt)
Fighters presented very little threat to mbt's in ww2. They disrupted attacks, panicked crews and cut off supplies but they weren’t out popping tanks with hizookas and 50s like we see in AH. Most what you hear is hype and exaggerations.
"50s bouncing off the ground to kill tanks".
"Jugs strafing tanks and banging up the hatch to trap the crew in".
"50 cals bouncing through the drivers slit"
"Fuel carried externally bursting into flames killing the crew"
"Close by bomb blast killing the crew etc...”
It’s all a bunch of Hollywood BS.
Even rockets and bombs weren’t that effective as mbt killers.
A few pilots in the Ju87Gs were about as good as it got in terms on "tank killers".
Read the above link as a starter.
Then go read here:
TANKBUSTERS: AIRBORNE ANTI-TANK GUNS IN WW2 (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm)
There has been some pretty comprehensive threads on this topic over the years. If you are interested you may do a search.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Another comes into mind is 12 Typhoons attacking a large column of 60+ tanks, reporting 24 destroyed. In the German logs, the records of that day was "6 Tigers damaged".
I recently read about it, I think the RAF over claimed but nevertheless still disabled/destroyed many tanks with 60lb Rocket Projectiles.
As for killing tanks in AH, there's not actually many aircraft that will actually destroy the tank since most tank drivers ditch and give a kill rather than wait to be destroyed. However, out of all the aircraft the Yak-9T 37mm, IL2, 20mm Hispano and 30mm Mk108 all seem to be able to destroy or disable a tank with ease. I've disabled tanks with German 20mm before too and it's a case of waiting for them to ditch before being awarded the kill.
-
Read the link I posted it have info from the ORS reports.
Very few tanks were actually destroyed by air weapons.
Not only ws their over claiming and an over estimation of the size of the force they were attacking but real impact wasnt how many they destroyed but the effect they had. Look at the total number of abandoned and "destroyed by crew".
-
Yep, the Rocket Projectile simply scared the hell out of them. Very much a case of a bark bigger than its bite.