Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Kidjel on July 01, 2004, 09:48:00 AM
-
I am a true newb to flight sims... I've been trying AH II offline to get the knack of flying and trying to shoot down the drones... Not having much success.
The AH II Help Files really don't have anything on the basics of flight and basic air combat. Where can I find that kind of guidance? I do have MS Flight Sim 2004... Is the MS Flight Sim close enough in flight sim to AH II that I should learn my flight basics there? And then come back to learn combat in AH II after I have the flight basics down?
-
I would recommend that you go to the training arena,there is usaully someone there who is willing to help.
whatever you do ,don't get discouraged,flying agianst other people is a lot different then flying agianst AI
-
Kidjel ...
If you are in your 2 week trial or a paying customer, you can go to the Training Arena and hook up with a trainer.
You can also go here ...
netaces.org (http://www.netaces.org/ahmain/siteframe.html#title)
They have some great write ups.
Don't get discouraged ... Aces High has a tremdous learning curve. Stick with it and it will come into place.
-
When you can, log online and hop into the Training Arena. Look for a Trainer (or me if i'm there) and they/me will be happy to help you.
-WMLute III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers
-
Dont worry, half the people in the MA don't know how to fly, and the other half kills them :)
I'd practice a lot of landings offline, because if you can do that successfully, you probably have the flight basics down. If you're having trouble with that, I'm sure you'd have no problem finding tons of stuff on flight basics if you search (google or some other search engine) +flight +basics +simulators. Start with something easy to land (like a p38 or a p51) and when you think you're good, try a f4u :)
After that, there are sites devoted to air combat sims.
They're good reading when you can't play, but it would be much more enjoyable to go to the Training arena to learn some stuff. I mean you're paying to play online and meet people :)
Its gonna be long (but fun) road from learning to fly to being successful in AH, so the more friends you can make while doing it, the more fun the game will be. Set realisitic goals, and follow your own timetable. Its a game that will keep your interest for years.
-
If you can successfully go through the MSFS lessons then you will be able to transfer that basic knowledge and skill to AH. The planes will obviously have different characteristics here, but that you will learn.
Air Combat Maneuvers are something that comes with knowledge, experience and time.
Knowledge - Understanding basic and advanced ACM. Understanding the strengths and weakness of each plane.
Experience - The more fights you engage in the more you will understand and strengthen your knowledge.
Time - It takes a certain amount of time for everything to sink in and for you to move to the next level. Then it starts all over.
Patience is the key. Don't rush into your fights, don't fly into bad situations unless your ready and can turn them into your favor.Gunnery is very big. Go to the training arena and get a trainer. Ask them how to use the friendly lock so that you can get an idea of what a snapshot is, what a lead shot is etc.
Go to the site slap recommended there is alot of info there and most of what you will need for the knowledge part.
Then fly your prettythang off and don't get worried when you get killed and plan on dying a lot, till you get through the first level. To get a handle on what each plane is capable of, you have to fly and experience them.
Record all your engagements and review them.It takes about a month or two to get your bearings and at least six months to get comfortable in the MA. 8).
Most of all keep a good sense of humor and don't take things to seriously.
-
Originally posted by Kidjel
I am a true newb to flight sims... I've been trying AH II offline to get the knack of flying and trying to shoot down the drones... Not having much success.
The AH II Help Files really don't have anything on the basics of flight and basic air combat. Where can I find that kind of guidance? I do have MS Flight Sim 2004... Is the MS Flight Sim close enough in flight sim to AH II that I should learn my flight basics there? And then come back to learn combat in AH II after I have the flight basics down?
If you find that a trainer is not online when you are then feel free to email us and pre-arrange a time to meet. We'd be happy to hook up with you for some 1 on 1 time.
trainers@hitechcreations.com
or me
soda@hitechcreations.com
AH has a pretty steep learning curve, like some others have pointed out, but if you can get some time working on some basics and understanding them it will come a lot easier. It'll just take some time and practice.
-
Flight and combat basics ?
First thing first--learn to take off and land your plane. And no, auto-takeoff doesn't count. If you're unable to even land, then you're not going to be terribly effective in combat. Get good enough at landing that you can even land on the CARRIERS. You can practice this offline.
Second--learn to shoot. If you can't hit anything from a moving airplane, then further flying skills beyond what you'd already have at this point are worthless. You don't need to be the world's greatest shot, but practice against the offline drones goes a long way towards making you competent in air to air gunnery.
Third--VIEWS. Rubberneck CONSTANTLY. Set your views and use them a LOT. Check your 6 a LOT--get into the habit of checking your 6 every time you're about to open fire on someone else--that is when a lot of people will try to shoot YOU down.
Ok, if you did all of that in order, you will end up with basic flying ability, some level of gunnery ability, and you'll be good at using your view keys. Then and ONLY then should you worry about learning more advanced maneuvers.
For a new player learning the basics of flight and gunnery, my personal recommended airplane is the F6F Hellcat. It is easy to take off and land (even on carriers), is tolerant of a new pilot's flight errors (read: it is somewhat resistant to stalling), it has a LOT of ammo to practice shooting with, it's views out of the cockpit are sufficient, and it takes a LOT of damage before being shot down itself. An added bonus is you can practice using bombs or rockets without having to select a different plane.
The Spitfires and the N1K2 are also good to learn AH with, but neither are as versatile as the F6F hellcat is from a trainee's perspective.
J_A_B
-
Ok, some speifics:
Learn the keyboard. In particular know the location of your flaps, and your brakes. This doesn't just mean the generci "brakes" button (spacebar is default), but also the individual left/right wheel brakes--these are vital for controlling your plane on takeoff and landings.
Takeoffs:
Get used to using your rudder or your wheel brakes to keep the plane straight on the runway. Do not oversteer or else you will crack up before ever leaving the ground. You do NOT need to use your ailerons (joystick x axis) to stay centered down the runway; using them will likely cause you to crack up. In general you are okay if you veer slightly off center, so just concentrate on getting off the ground in one piece for now. MAKE SURE that Auto-Takeoff is OFF.
Landings:
The most important thing about landings is to GIVE YOURSELF ENOUGH TIME. A lot of people come in too close to the airfield, try to land too quickly, then crash. A new pilot isn't going to know the techniques to slow down in a short distance (indeed, a new pilot shouldn't even try it), so start a landing approach a fair distance out from the base. Several miles should work.
Basic landing steps--
Reduce speed. This is easily done by cutting throttle to 0 and flying level at about 1000 feet altitude above the base and a couple miles out from it. Your speed will soon drop to about 150 MPH. Use throttle to hold your plane at about 150 MPH for now.
Drop FULL flaps and landing gear. This will slow you to about 120 MPH or less. Do this when you're getting close to the runway--close enough where it is becomming tough to see over the nose. Do not let your speed drop under 100 MPH (yet) or else you will probably stall.
You will probably be gradually be losing altitude in this flight configuration--that is the point. At this speed your plane will be somewhat nose-up just trying to stay airborne and will STILL be gradually losing altitude (if you aren't losing alt, then you are too fast). Basically you should run out of altitude about the time you reach the landing strip. Special technique--if you feel like you can't "pull the nose up"with the engine on idle right before landing, hit FULL throttle for a short time--this will cause the nose to veer up. Once on the runway, use the brakes to stop. Use just one wheel brake if you need to turn slightly to keep it straight.
You SHOULD NOT ever have to point your plane down in order to get it to land. IF you have to physicallypoint your nose DOWN to land it, then you are landing too fast. Landings should be at about 100 MPH, with touchdown at somewhat less than that.
Once you are good at landing, practice carrier landings (remember to use the tail hook on a plane so equipped; F6F is a good plane for this). Remember that the carrier flightdeck is about 60 feet aove the water.
The best way to practice landings, IMO, is to practice flying at slow airspeeds with gear/flaps down in the AIR several thousand feet up, to get used to how the plane flies like that. That way if you mess up you just stall and climb back up, instead of planting yourself into the runway.
Honestly, once you get good at takeoffs and landings, you are already as good a pilot as at least 1/4 of the MA fliers. I frequently see MA pilots who crash trying to take off or land.
J_A_B
-
Also Turn Stall Limiter Off.......that is if it is turned on in the flight set up.........it will hender your flying abilitys........
Best to start off learning with out it than to learn with it on then start all over learning with it off..........IMHO...YMMV
Make sure you start out with your tracers turned on, until you get a feel of where your ammo is going once you accomplish an average gunnery skill then you may want to experiment with them turned off to increase your gunnery skill, also read up on gun convergence , is best to go thru all the planes and set the convergence ( usually 300 to 500 for most people ) read up on this subject.......
If you want to leave auto-take off on, you can always knock it off when you launch by moving stick back ( pull back ) it will disengage it so you can practice taking off with out it..........
-
You've been given some great advice for getting started bro. Only thing I could add is get a copy of Robert Shaw's "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuvering".
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870210599/102-8222359-5914556?v=glance
Don't try and reproduce the diagrams. Learn the principals and "why's and how's" things happen in air to air combat.
Memorize Boelcke's Dicta:
==============================================
1. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.
2. Always carry through an attack when you have started it.
3. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.
4. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.
5. In any form of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.
6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it.
7. When over the enemy's lines, never forget your own line of retreat.
8. For the Staffel: Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for one opponent.
http://www.geocities.com/aw3aw3/dicta.htm
==============================================
And most importantly: Learn to shoot, fancy flying has never shot another airplane down.
Good Luck! Don't be afraid to ask questions if your online. Their are plenty of good folks who will lend a hand.
Crumpp
-
If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong...
-
Learn how to survive and then learn how to kill...
-
Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Learn how to survive and then learn how to kill...
Ok... This seems to be the key! LOL!
I've done everything I can do offline. Everything in this thread has helped tremendously... Especially the NetAces site. I can takeof, fly & land OK, but I'm a terrible shot. I guess that will come with experience.
Is there a time of day when there are more folks in the TA? I've tried the MA but I only last a minute in an air engagement on MA... Not long enough to learn anything.
In the mean time I guess I'll man a gun on a field or on a carrier... ;)
-
In the mean time I guess I'll man a gun on a field or on a carrier...
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt ... WRONG ANSWER !!!
Step away from the gun and get back in the plane and keep getting killed. You will learn nothing while sitting in a gun. Take off from a field where many are also taking off .. follow them and try to stay alive long enough to see some of their engagements ... better yet ... film it and watch it later.
Dieing, as terrible as it may seem, is not dishonorable, nor should you be chastized for it.
I died ALOT when first starting this game, as well as many others have, but I just kept going back for more and each time learned something new.
I still die alot, but not as much as I use to ... ;)
-
A few thoughts to consider. Try and find a "reasonable" fight, one where you have some friendly support and it's not 50 vs 1. Look around the map a bit, don't just take off where a wave of red cons are inbound and try to stop them. Too many new pilots try to do too much when they start, first fly in relatively "relaxed" situations where you aren't completely defensive the second your wheels leave the ground.
Secondly, try and get a feeling for when you are in over your head and back off a bit. You don't need to charge right into a mass of enemies, see if you can't seperate one or two of them and fight those. 1 on 1 combat will be tough enough, 1 on 4 will be impossible. Those feeling off "danger" will serve you well later, it's all in reading the situation quickly and knowing what you should be doing in response.
Finally, pick an aircraft suited to your abilities and style. Sure, the Corsair may look cool but if you can barely keep it airborne without crashing then it's a bit pointless to try and fight in it. Lots of people pick Spitfires to start, they tend to be a good choice. They also suit newer pilots who spend a lot of time turning, moreso than many they will learn then should.
Gunnery is just partially practice and partially situation. As experience grows you will get a feel for the gunnery and you also tend to produce "easier" shots for yourself. by that I mean, early on you will likely find a lot of high angle/speed, long distance shots, tough for anyone. Later you tend to get closer, lower angle shots that are much easier to make.
Hope that helps...
-
Listen to Soda, get in a plane and die !!! Its the best teaching tool there is. Pick ONE ride and stick with it till it calls for you in your dreams!! Even if its the Nik or La7!! Pick one ride you can handle well now and make it your own, don't let others tell you its a dweeb ride or what ever. You here to have fun, and if you fly a plane you like you'll have more fun!
Check out the Mafia site http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/index.html It may not have as much, or more detailed info as the aces site, but it does have some tips for new flyers written in plain english. Just click on the "Aces High Info" link and go from there. There are tip on how to get close in a fight, as well as tips on how to figure how much you have to lead a target to hit it.
Hang in there!! It get better with the more practice you put in! Good Luck!
-
Good site, MDJoe!
-
Let me second what Slap said, jump back in your ride and get your oscar handed to you again...and again...and again.
Having been personally shot down by Slap several times :D, I can tell you that is the best learning experience. Make sure you are rolling film before your engagements. Watch the angles from thier perspective on the film. See how they are positioning thier planes long before you ever come close to the merge, and watch how often they look around.
There is a lot to learn in this game. I probably spent the better part of 2 months flying offline, just practicing turning on the edge of a stall in different aircraft, practicing spin recovery, landing and taking off, bombing, gunnery...you name it.
I am now doing the same thing with AH2. I had to temporarily suspend my account for personal reasons, so I am getting a feel for the flight model in AH2, and tweaking my rather old computer to get decent frame rates.
Remember, it's a game, and it should be fun. Don't let yourself get frustrated. Just laugh, give the other guy a , and get back up there.
Also, check with some squadrons. I learned a lot from my squadmates, and having someone watching out for you can help you live longer and enjoy your time online much more.
Cheers,
Spitter, aka ~~~Fate~~~ Squadron target drone.
-
...to the bottom of the food chain.
Give it a few weeks. You'll suck less.
A few months and suddenly you'll be bouncing other newbies.
A year and suddenly you realize that there are MANY MANY more pilots better than you but that there are also quite a few that will show you their six at inopportune moments offering you the chance to perforate their egoes.
Shane and Soda have excellent reputations as mentors.
Cardinal rule: Avoid "le rope-a-dope"
Good Luck and Have Fun:D
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong...
Hehe, that about says it all. Im new to AHII as well, although not at all new to flight sims in general, but i feel youre pain lol. Soon as you get used to the diffrences in flight models though its all gravy. All these guys have put up great hints and tips to get you up and running, but when it comes to actual combat Schaden hit the nail on the head. Getting into a fight with another plane when your both level pegging is all very honourable, but getting into a fight when your 5000 feet above your prey is where the meal ticket comes from.
Must admit AHII is the only flight sim ive ever been in where ive seen players complaining about the enemy being 'alt-monkeys' and basically ridiculing someone entering a furball from 15k, however dont be put off by this, and dont be tempted to go swanning about at ground level. In flight sims and in real life, altitude is something you can rarely have too much of, and as a new pilot, make damn sure your the highest plane in the sky. If your new to sims in general your gunnery will be probably be awful to begin with anyway, so diving down on a sleeping enemy, spraying at a range of less than 200, and then climbing back up to the safety of the blue yonder is by far your best bet. Dont be tempted to get into a turning dogfight unless someone is onto you with more energy (catching up), by entering a knife-fight your lowering yourself to their level, and 99% of the time, regardess of what plane you/they are flying, it will be the best pilot that wins the day. If your a noob, it aint going to be you.
Also, while bombers often seem like big heavy easy pickings for fighter jocks, they have a major sting in the tail, especially with the drones in AHII. Attempting to waltz in on a B17s six and sit there for 30seconds while you calmly shoot them down one by one simply isnt going to happen. The same rules as fighters apply, and you need to get up high, dive in, shoot, and get back out again, with any luck while the pilots/gunners asleep. If you dont get them on the first pass, you can bet your last dollar that theyre going to be waiting for you if you try another pass as well, so even more speed, caution and 'slicing' is needed. As i said, they may seem pretty vulnerable and easy tgt's since they need escorts, but remem a B17 has 13 different gun positions to your one, and in a formation you could have up to 9-12 of them shooting at you at once. Thats an awful lot of lead coming in your direction.
All that junk above means simply make sure you are the higher plane, if your not, dont be ashamed to turn away and run until you are. Try and fly in groups, where theyres ten of your team and two of theirs, thatll give you plenty of oppertunitys to practice diving and bouncing. All this may sound like 'cheating', but its how combat is won, and as i pointed out, while a one-on-one at level alt is all very honourable when you walk away the victor, your majority of kills will come from when you were the plane with more energy (speed/alt), or your tgt was concentrating on someone else. And dont listen to anyone who calls you a wuss or a rookie cos youre 10k above them, mooning at them out your back window.
Last point, all sims have their 'nasty' fighters, in IL2 it was the Yak, (actually the I-16 before it was fixed), WWIIOL its the 109F, and in AHII it seems to be the N1K, (bearing in mind im a noob as well, so this is just what ive seen). If you see one, and have the oppertunity, run your bellybutton away and leave him to the more experianced boys and girls. He'll truss you up good and proper if you give him the chance.
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong...
-
fracca ...
All good advise if this was real life, but its not. There is no shame in dieing in this game. The more scraps/fights one gets into, the better fighter they become. Thats the beauty of this game ... you can get killed, but you can then immediately get back into the cockpit and try again.
Following your recipe, will not make him a better fighter, but rather a runner IMHO. When he does get caught, he will not last more than 1 turn.
-
Originally posted by fracca
As i said, they may seem pretty vulnerable and easy tgt's since they need escorts, but remem a B17 has 13 different gun positions to your one, and in a formation you could have up to 9-12 of them shooting at you at once. Thats an awful lot of lead coming in your direction.
Man , that is why they kill me so much, they actually have 7 more gun positions per plane than I was counting on........could have sworn they only had a chin turret, lower bal turret, top turret, tail gun, and 2 waist gunner slots.........:D
-
Hi Kidjel,
and wellcome to the world of air combat.
Very first bookmark The http://www.netaces.org site. It based to the AH1 but info is still more or less valid.
As said before, learn basic skill in offline:
- Take offs/landings
- Snap view-system inside out
- Basic gunnery vs droons
- Basic Flight Maneuvers
Then check these links. (edit) IGNORE the old help file!!!
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91824&highlight=hints
Before your first combat , check the link
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fletcher183/axioms.html
:) Have a fun
Ps. Allways remember... Its only a game
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
fracca ...
All good advise if this was real life, but its not. There is no shame in dieing in this game. The more scraps/fights one gets into, the better fighter they become. Thats the beauty of this game ... you can get killed, but you can then immediately get back into the cockpit and try again.
Following your recipe, will not make him a better fighter, but rather a runner IMHO. When he does get caught, he will not last more than 1 turn.
If you you play this or other online sims to enable you to have some small idea of what r/l air combat was like 60 years ago then you should try to stay alive whilst ensuring your enemy does not.
If you look on this or other flight sims as a merely another sort of quake where you kill then die, kill/die/kill/die ad infinitum then you fall into a different group to myself.
It is up to you which you prefer, Johnnie Johnson was hit once in 4 years of combat, getting 30 odd kills in the process, 1944 a 190 pinged his wing root with a 20mm - otherwise not a scratch.
Being able to flop around at zero feet in a Spit 9 or Niki might be very impressive in the DA however in the MA or CT what matters more is the ability to create a situation where you have all the advantages and your opponents or opponents have none.
Acm are over rated, as long as you are able to manage the basics and are able to visualise what all the a/c around you are doing and can kill 95% of the time at 450 yards you'll be a master.
Flying in MA or on the IL2 servers then becomes an intellectual exercise in which you manipulate your enemy and events which lead to you landing 5 or so kills every time you take off.
Fly something very fast with big guns.......
Failing that join the chest beaters you think everyone is scared of them as they fly in their Spit 9's and complain that no-one will fight them - they don't even grasp the fact that they are being fought against - except it's on someone else's terms and that person is going to kill them then fly home.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
If you you play this or other online sims to enable you to have some small idea of what r/l air combat was like 60 years ago then you should try to stay alive whilst ensuring your enemy does not.
If you look on this or other flight sims as a merely another sort of quake where you kill then die, kill/die/kill/die ad infinitum then you fall into a different group to myself.
It is up to you which you prefer, Johnnie Johnson was hit once in 4 years of combat, getting 30 odd kills in the process, 1944 a 190 pinged his wing root with a 20mm - otherwise not a scratch.
Being able to flop around at zero feet in a Spit 9 or Niki might be very impressive in the DA however in the MA or CT what matters more is the ability to create a situation where you have all the advantages and your opponents or opponents have none.
Acm are over rated, as long as you are able to manage the basics and are able to visualise what all the a/c around you are doing and can kill 95% of the time at 450 yards you'll be a master.
Flying in MA or on the IL2 servers then becomes an intellectual exercise in which you manipulate your enemy and events which lead to you landing 5 or so kills every time you take off.
Fly something very fast with big guns.......
Failing that join the chest beaters you think everyone is scared of them as they fly in their Spit 9's and complain that no-one will fight them - they don't even grasp the fact that they are being fought against - except it's on someone else's terms and that person is going to kill them then fly home.
I can BnZ with the best of them in my P-38, but when I get caught in situation while in that mode, I can also fight. Had I just been a BnZ guy all along, I can guarantee that I too would be dead in 1 turn had I not learned to knife fight (Turn&Burn).
So I can play on both sides of the fence and its not due to running, hiding, and being overly concerned about death. Lets get real here ... everytime I take a plane up, I have all intentions of returning to base, but at the same time, I will not run from a fight because I might DIE ... oh my goodness.
Funny you should mention the Spit 9 or any plane for that fact. I could care less what anybody flys, and I don't turn away from a fight because of what plane I encounter. They all blow up equally. You just have to adjust the fight accordingly, unless of course you find it prudent to run cause you might DIE.
I don't have time to be playing Johnny Johnson or any other aces for that fact. I want to engage - fight and whatever the outcome, it doesn't really matter ... its the fight that counts.
My point is ... if you want to play the Johnny Johnson game ... you will, in Aces High, still have to die alot to get to that caliber ... so you might as well jump in feet first and go for it. Once you have achieved a certain level of expertise, then play Johnny Johnson. I don't subscribe to teaching people to be timid and runners.
-
Hate to break the news to you but for most people with a grasp on reality are not really "afraid" of either you or the fact that their imaginary cartoon aeroplane might be shot down in an imaginary battle.
Some prefer a different challenge to air quake. Pays your money and takes your choice. Allow people to make up their own minds rather than forcing your own narrow minded views on others.
-
Guys, lets help him with the building blocks, and get out of the gate a running and not stumbling ( well we all stumbled in the beginning)
once he gets some seat/virtual cockpit time in ( minimum 6 months) then he can decide which side of the fence he wants to be on.
but by all means, if you start out running from a fight you will be long pressed to learn from any mistakes because you will not be learning anything except how to run. To learn you must mix it up and keep at it , you will lose and lose alot, but when the day comes you can have a sweaty palms dogfite you verses 2, and come out the victor then you know you have achieved that next step up the ladder, or that next knot in the rope you are climbing to success.............keep with it and you will get there Kidjel..and the best of luck to you;)
-
Speaking from personal experience only, the one thing that has GREATLY increased my enjoyment of Air Combat Sims, is finding a squad that I fit in with. Lord knows, I've found myself in many I didn't seem to fit (mostly having to do with hobbies and interest). Its a long process of learning, and it just makes it 10 times more fun if you're doing it with people you like to fly with. That doesn't mean to jump at the first squad invite. But the sooner you can find a group you like hanging with the more fun the whole learning experience will be. Its a lot like school :D The time line is there (for some its shorter for others longer) and the whole game is hikeing down that timeline. Its more fun in the company of others.
BTW, ty Dniff
-
Not sure if this has been suggested or not but...
The guys in my squad who are newer seem to get alot from riding in my plane with me just to observe. Yes you can ride along in a fighter too. You won't see everything that is happening but you can compare what your instinct tells you to do with what the more experienced pilot you're riding with does. This will help you figure out the "whys and why nots".
Good luck!:aok
-
TequilaChaser
Your absolutly right. I was trying to give him advise as to what I thought was best. No branding such as "Air Quake" or the like. Schadenfreude decided that segregating and pigeon holeing flying styles was necessary.
Anyways ... I out ... on holiday for 2 weeks. Best of luck Kidjel, and if u see me in the MA and you want to go to TA and mess around, just give me a shout.
-
Originally posted by Soda
Finally, pick an aircraft suited to your abilities and style. Sure, the Corsair may look cool but if you can barely keep it airborne without crashing then it's a bit pointless to try and fight in it. Lots of people pick Spitfires to start, they tend to be a good choice. They also suit newer pilots who spend a lot of time turning, moreso than many they will learn then should.
Hope that helps...
I actually disagree with the above advice. I think picking the Spit/nik/elgay just because they are the easiest and make the learning curve less steep is stupid, and in the long run you'll learn a lot less than you would if you had stuck with the plane you "like" and learned how to fight in it.
Will you die more, and for a longer period of time? Yes. Will you eventually be better than most everyone else for the effort you put in? Yes.
It depends on if you are willing to settle for mediocrity I guess.
-
And slapshot... you are talking to someone who's view of Aces High is just about diametrically opposed to yours. I've honestly got no idea what shade flies, but I'd be willing to wager that is is 190D9, P-51D, La-7, or Typhoon (with about a 90% certainty of the latter 3). He flies these because he doesn't *want* to fight. And if you fly one of those planes (with the exception of the P-51D, imo), you can run forever and *never* be caught. He doesn't have to worry about not knowing how to "last past the first turn" because for him, there are never any first turns. It is either him taking turns bore n zooming some guy, or him running flat out on the deck from one or more enemy.
Shade, this isn't any kind of personal condemnation, so please don't take it that way.
By the way Slapshot... even you and me aren't from the same "school".. I'm of a more spartan school, where you take a plane that isn't suited to fighting, then learn to fight well in it anyway. You'll be better for it, imo.
That is what I did coming up (flying 190/109), and if someone really wants to be good at fighting, I'm going to tell them "Ok, you should fly the 109/190/P-51D [FIGHTING, no running], P-47, F6F/F4F, F4U, etc. Find a higher spitfire, wait till he dives in and rumble. If you find the inevitable X on 1 and they all dive, see how many you can kill before you go down.
For me, the 109G-10 is just about a perfect plane. The La-7 would be the "perfect" plane for my fighting style, given its higher top speed, better acceleration & turning, and firepower, but I like the 109 so I stick with it.
I can fight 1 or 2 guys from a position of disadvantage, work my way into a position of advantage (depending on their level of incompetence), and still be able to add enemies into the fight if I A. see them coming, and B. can keep the "old" enemies from killing me while I nuetralize the threat from the "new" enemy. Or, if I get horded to much, I can take off running, fight some to bleed down their energy, then take off running again. The G-10 accelerates better than just about every plane in the game, so I am rarely caught once I take off running again.
That is how I have fun. Probably most people wouldn't find it fun, and I die a lot which I know most people don't find fun. But most people take the path of least resistance, and I think that has had the biggest effect on making the gameplay in the MA so tiresome.
-
Ahh now I knew there was a reason I liked you Urchin! Except for you killin turrets in your spit...That's the style I chose as well ;)
My favorite thing to do is up from a capped field and kill or run off the would be vulchers. Not that I succeed more than fail (yet) at this foolhardy mission. But I do get my heart racing in the attempt!:cool:
-
Originally posted by Urchin
It depends on if you are willing to settle for mediocrity I guess.
Explain, and give examples, of how starting in a Spit would make a person "mediocre". Somehow I think getting your bellybutton handed to you constantly because you can barely control a more complicated aircraft (or fly it outside it's abilities) would demonstrate less to a new pilot (and make them more frustrated). Your "self-punishment" methodology is unsupported in almost anything else that is commonly taught.
Glad to know I'm mediocre then, along with guys like Leviathn, Mathman, ammo.... geez.
-Soda
-
Leviathn didn't START in Spits.
He learned how to fight in other planes, then took that knowledge of how to fight and uses it in a Spit now.
I guess the best way to put it is when you practice for basketball sometimes you'll use ankle weights (at least I did). You try to get as good as the other guys while you are wearing ankle weights, then when game time comes you take em off. Presto, instant agility.
Batting practice is the same way. Use a heavier bat for practicing, then move to a lighter bat for the game. Instant bat speed increase.
The last tour before AH2 came out, I decided to play around in the Niki for a few days.
I went something like 20:1 in it, flying it the same as I would have flown a 190A. The main difference was when I'd get into a 3 or 4 on one, I could kill them all because the Niki is a far better fighter than a 190A is.
And Mathman flies the F6F, unless I'm mistaken.
Put him in a Spit 9, or a Niki, and he'll instantly be 2-3 times as effective (at least). Why? Because he is used to how a F6F handles, and he is used to fighting in one. A spit 9 or Niki is at least 2-3 times as good a pure "fighter" as a F6F. He'll get in situations where he'll win in the Spit 9 or Niki (X on 1 being the most notable), where the F6F doesn't have the performance or the firepower to win.
Hopefully that'll make what I'm trying to say a little more clear.
A pilot that starts out in the "Best" plane learns nothing but to rely on his plane to get him kills. He never develops any more than that. A pilot that has learned how to "fight" in a 190/F6F/P51, whatever, has been forced to learn more "advanced" things as far as judging relative E-states, motion, tactics. Not to mention aim- you will improve your aim much faster if you HAVE to hit that shot you keep getting to live. All of this is my opinion of course, yours may differ.
-
Urchin,
My point is, you flew the N1K like a 190 because you know all the other skills (situational awareness, maneuvering understanding, timing) that would make you successful in anything you flew. That isn't flying skill, that's understanding skill. That's what separates the good pilots from the bad ones, not the characteristic of the aircraft. Why not give new players something, therefore, that is easy to control and let them develop those understanding skills. Those skills are the ones that transfer around more successfully to whatever they fly.
Most people "out-grow" the Spit later, they learn to appreciate the differences that other aircraft offer and rarely can a Spit dictate a fight like a P-51, 190D9, La7, etc... it takes better understanding to be successful in those aircraft though. Why not help the learning curve a bit by getting those skills developed and not send a new pilot into frustration early. Sure, the Spit can be a bit of a crutch for some, but if that's what makes them enjoy the game, or a little more successful because they start to ask some of the other questions, then so be it.
Using your batting example, the Spit simply helps slow down the pitches a bit so you can recognize a curve from a slider. Even if you have great bat speed you can't hit what you don't understand... why not let them look at some easy pitches to start with, then put on the power so they can hit home-runs.
-
I don't know if the turnover is simply so high that I never see anyone "outgrow" the Spit/Nik/La7 because they are all just quitting the game and being replaced with fresh newbies flying the exact same planes the exact same way, or if the vast majority of players never actually do outgrow them, but I'm not seeing it.
As far as what you call "understanding skill"... you get that by flying and learning to fight in the non-"easy-mode" planes. You actually have to work hard to outfight a spit in a F4U or whatever, and working hard equates to learning.
You develop timing, understanding of various manuevers, SA.. because you are forced to. If you don't develop those skills you simply won't be able to last a minute in an arena full of Nik/Spit/La7... unless you are in one. If you are in one, the characteristics of the plane more than make up for the lacking of any skill as a pilot, making it easy to get at least one kill before you die. Thus, you get people that are satisfied with mediocrity.
These are the people that will try to bore n zoom, but break off their pass if you so much as bank.. but then accept a joust. Why? Because the joust offers them at least a shot at killing a non-manuevering target before they die. At least that is how I see it, although I honestly find this thinking completely foreign to me.
-
You guys have to remember he needs to learn to walk before he can run. Your parents didn't put you on a bicycle before you could walk so you would be that much better at walking.
I agree that flying the harder planes does give you an advantage when you go back to the more forgiving planes, but until you have enough experience to actually understand the difference between two different planes the point is moot.
I still recommend getting comfortable in a single plane, one that is forgiving enough that when you do something wrong you are not snap rolled into the ground or auguring left and right.
Then as you get a hang of flying start to fly the planes that you are losing to. This way you will see how others are beating you in it and how you are getting beat. Then next time your in your comfortable ride try the moves you learned.
As for the crap about always having alt, yeah that is true when your a noob. Alt is your friend. Then once you get good at reversals you learn that alt is not always your friend. There is nothing better than getting a "Major Nelson" to dive on you, make him burn his e and splattering him all over the sky. Where is your alt advantage now lolh.
Remember that this is a game, sure there are a lot of guys that probably put on the leather helmet and scarf before they sit in front of the computer and pretend that they are Snoopy and that is all well and good. If you end up a Cherry Picker then that is fine. Just don't be so arrogant as some to think that it is the only way to play and that everyone else has it wrong or are just playing Air Quake. Most of us started by Cherry Picking, because it is easier than staying low and fighting from a disadvantage. Then some come to a place where the BnZ gets boring and start to look for something more, a different challenge.
To be honest with, I like to do both. When I get bored turn fighting on the deck, I’ll BnZ for a while and enjoy the slower pace. Both styles have their fun aspects. I guess the bottom line is always be aggressive, don’t be afraid to die and try to push yourself and the plane to the envelope. If you do that, most people who run into you will always remember a good fight and you will stay on the edge of your seat.