Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CptTrips on January 02, 2001, 07:00:00 PM
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Give us the tools to help ourselves.
I have brought this up before, but I’m going to make a final formal plea.
The behavior and tenor of the online environment in AH had gotten worse and worse. The constant, mind-numbing whining and complaining, taunting, fit-throwing, excuse-making, FM postulating, quit-threatening BS has become almost unbearable.
It didn’t used to be this bad, and I don’t think it has to be. Give us the tool that will help us encourage each other to tone it down a bit.
We need a permanent squelch buffer.
There are two ways to maintain order in any community. Through laws (i.e. direct intervention by the authorities in this case HTC), or through “social pressure”.
Any community that tries too maintain order using strictly social means needs to utilize two of the most powerful behavioral modification tools societies have traditionally used. Shame, and Ostracization.
To be effective, I would think a permanent squelch list should provide at least the following features:
1. The squelch list must be persistent between user sessions and version upgrades.
2. An easy and convenient interface to add and remove individuals to the squelch list. Preferably with some kind of GUI, however, even a cfg file will suffice.
3. Statistics should be kept on how many players have a player squelched and that should become one of the statistics displayable from the scores page. Anyone at anytime can go a query the current “amazinhunk” ranking.
This would be a powerful social tool for our player community to shape its members behavior.
It helps quantify and display the community’s displeasure with an individual player. It’s there for all to see on the scores page at anytime. There are penalties for annoying the other players and those penalties are mercilessly visible for all to see. And ranked. Might be interesting for squadrons to be able to query to scores page to see how applicants for membership have behaved in the past.
Shame.
What is the one thing a problem child craves most? Attention. Nothing will annoy the whiners more than knowing that no one is listening anymore. Not just that they are rolling their eyes and willing themselves not to reply, but that the text isn’t even making it to their buffer. Turn their mic off. Remove their forum. Make them irrelevant. They can pout and rant and taunt and whine and throw fits all they want but the words fall into a vacuum. Their audience has turned their collective back.
Ostracization.
I understand the arguments that HTC might have against this. I understand that their goal is to promote social interaction between players in order to foster community and they don’t like the idea of players permanently cutting comm lines. However, by not providing a permanent squelch list where I can surgically place troublemakers, I am most often forced to squelch the entire chan1. Sometime I’ve even wanted to squelch chan2 when those individuals are on my own country team but I can’t even do that. And since I can’t totally remove the text box they are able to insinuate themselves into my buffer. When I’m searching the text buffer for useful information I am forced to constantly have to step over their verbal excrement.
None of us have to power to control who HTC accepts as customers. I wouldn’t want too. Anyone they can get $30 out of they're welcome to. But by giving us a tool like this you allow each user to trim the population down until they have created the type of community they are most comfortable with. You empower the user to refine with whom he has social interaction.
If you like whining and complaining; if you like talking and hearing smack, then don’t squelch. If you don’t like certain peoples behaviors then squelch’em. Eventually, each player tailors the community that they want. No one if forced to squelch anyone. It allows me and many other to not be forced to squelch all of chan1. I have enjoyed many good times on chan1 with good natured banter but lately it just hasn’t been worth the cost. There are certain people who I would like to right click on their roster name and POOF they’re gone forever. I don’t see them on channel 1, not on channel 2, not on private comms. Nada. Nothing. Not now, not the next day I play, not next month. Forever. With one click.
It’s the perfect solution. Everyone configures the flavor of community they enjoy. Everyone gets what they want. Except the whiners who want attention and fek them.
Thank you for your consideration.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-02-2001).]
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Now that was a well presented argument. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Good points Wab. Although I don't think the AH community is in danger of self-destructing any time soon, I think your suggestion has some merit.
Attention whiners... this was what you should be striving for. All well written post that makes a constructive suggestion backed up with a buttload of information and some well-formed opinions. It's an anti-whine!
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Well said Wab... I second that.
AKDejaVu
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Gets my vote.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-02-2001).]
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Good points AKWabbit.
The consequence free environment that constitutes AH, this forum and online gaming in general has brought out behavior that otherwise would not be tolerated in any other social setting. HTC's "Bad Word Buffer" is an attempt to address this issue. Your "Squelch List" is another solution, and one that I think should be implemented. However, both of these methods focus on reducing the symptoms but do not address the source of the problem.
It is my opinion that one way HTC can create a positive environment based on civility, good sportsmanship, and the free exchange of opinions is to hold individual offenders accountable for their actions. In the end HTC is responsible for the conduct within the Arena and on this Forum. To promote a different atmosphere, HTC could develop a set of guidelines defining the behavior they want to promote. Then enforce the guidelines by actively Moderating the MA and the Forum.
To expect the community to police itself is unrealistic, impractical and to date impossible. The majority chooses not to address the offender, knowing that it rarely does anything other than feed the flames and offer the attention that the culprit desires. This tacit acceptance reinforces the bad behavior as the culprit "gets away with it". Over time this behavior becomes the norm. Once a new set of guidelines is established and enforced, these new more game affirming behaviors will become the norm and self policing will have a greater affect.
What atmosphere do you expect when you go to the movie theater? ;) I do not think it is too much to ask for HTC to provide a safe, fun, positive environment in which to enjoy their game. I don't think the current state of affairs is what they had in mind when they dreamed this thing up.
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Why would you need a permanant squelch list? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Fingers tired? Mispell thier names when ya try to squelch em? Sounds kinda lazy to me. How bout you go about it the way I do. I invite anybody that talks good smack to the TA. EZY fun and nine times outta ten were friends by the time the duel is over. If the said party doesnt wanna go then the whole arena knows he's balless. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) They usually shutup after this and when you see them again in the arena you usually say "HI!" instead of spouting off at each other. NEWBIES!! TRY this! Its the best for getting your flying skill up to a higher plane(sorry bout the pun) CITI Im ready for ya now!!!! To the TA!!! RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'd like to have a permanent squelch.
It's the same guys every time, usually.
Why type them in every time you log on?
AH remembers our last plane/loadout and fuel. Why does it do that? To save repetitive tasks.
Same/same permanent squelch. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Got my vote...I'd like to be able to unsquelch ch.1 also, but when I do, it gets squelched again real quick.
bowser
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PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
PERMANENT SQUELCH LIST
Please!!!
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The squelch list is neccessary!
The community is in a decline, while AH has gained customers lately, i'd imagine more than a few have been scared off by the dark clouds in the MA. I see more and more arguements and flame wars now than I did 3 months ago. LLB you've taken part in your share of em too, and so have I. Its bloody contagious!!
The 2 week trial is great for bringing customers into the game, and I understand that the more available the download is the more they will come, but holy sht!! where do some of these people come from?
Watched a character by the name of Gas tonight, first thing I saw in the text buffer from him I think was "FUK YOU JEWS"
There is no perfect solution, monitoring the arena comes with a whole bunch of other issues, and costs that we don't need. The permasquelch list is perhaps the best compromise/solution we have at the moment.
I also need a self restraint apparatus, perhaps a yardstick that slaps my knuckles when I let go of the joystick...
HT the community has asked for this list several times, where do you stand on this issue?
AKskurj
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Akskurj i agree with you 100%, we have had this conversation before. i think that this community is going to hell, but im not suprised. kick me in the balls, i mean it, but the free 2 weeks is an offer to get 3dfiles.com shmucko quakers to come here and fediddle it for all of us. these are the whiners and insult throwers (with a few exceptions) forget it im dumb and my opinion doesnt count
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Go Fascism, YAAAA TEAM!!
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Toggle show/hide text buffer would be useful. Most of the time I'm on RW with my squad, and I could definitely do without unnecessary garbage in the text buffer (kill messages etc.).
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Sancho
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/mahurin_sig.jpg)
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Wabbit - Kudos!
3. Statistics should be kept on how many players have a player squelched and that should become one of the statistics displayable from the scores page. Anyone at anytime can go a query the current “amazinhunk” ranking.
Brilliant.
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Originally posted by Sancho:
Toggle show/hide text buffer would be useful. Most of the time I'm on RW with my squad, and I could definitely do without unnecessary garbage in the text buffer (kill messages etc.
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Now HERE's and easy fix!! Grand idea
[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 01-03-2001).]
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3. Statistics should be kept on how many players have a player squelched and that should become one of the statistics displayable from the scores page. Anyone at anytime can go a query the current “amazinhunk” ranking.
This would lead to no-flying-skill-dweebs to trying to reach the top stunninghunk position with lots of flames in board and CH 1. No go.
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jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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I already have a permanent squelch list. I set it up on my joystick button when im in take off mode. Matter fact its the first button I hit when I enter the ma. it looks something like this .squelch XXXX enter .squelch XXXX enter and so on and so forth. I know most of you have good joystick setups. try this sometime I know it works for me.
RWY out !
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Originally posted by Sancho:
Toggle show/hide text buffer would be useful. Most of the time I'm on RW with my squad, and I could definitely do without unnecessary garbage in the text buffer (kill messages etc.).
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I like the idea, plus have a <S> button where I can congrat the one just have shot me down (a much more common situation than the opposite). So you save the "kind" side of the game.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Not sure how you read facisim into a permenant squelch list swamprat when any indiviuals list would be exclusive unto them. Thats not a personal flame sir...I respect your right to your opinion, I just disagree.
I have quietly lobbied for a permenant squelch list for some time now as I do feel there is a.... shall we say surlieness within this community that is more prevalent than other online communities that I have participted in. JMHO, and to be honest I really thought there would be PSL in 1.05 as I have seen much support for one on these boards.
All the arguments have been made about simply squelching channel 1...for myself this is simply painting with too large a brush, again just my humble opinion.
So in closing I would like to once again request the implementation of a PSL by HTC or perhaps get some insight from HTC as to wheather or not this is viable for them.
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I would agree with this only if its easy to do, since I'd rather type squelch in if it meant getting other features/Aircraft any faster.
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Yeah yeah now youre creating another SQUELCH mafia!
I want my freedom of whine which is stated in the constitutional law of Aces High!!
Hmm..
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I dont want to get too cerebral on you fellas but I am sensing a coming period of substantiol growth for this community.
In my estimation, as useful as a squelch file would be to *some* of you, I wouldnt find it very useful for me (I cant think of anyone I would want to permanently ignore).
Not that this is a problem, but I wonder how a branching schematic showing hundreds of people being cut off socialy from hundreds of other people might adversely impact maturation of our community.
Yeager
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Yeager... we are experiencing reverse maturation now... IMO
AKskurj
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Not that this is a problem, but I wonder how a branching schematic showing hundreds of people being cut off socialy from hundreds of other people might adversely impact maturation of our community.
People's are only cut off socially if they cannot behave. If they are cut off, they can only blame themselves.
I think some might even learn that it is not ok say anything you want to other people in arena and that might have maturing effect.
Besides, folks can be squelched already, squalch list would only make it easier. With squelch list you could "customize" arena a little to make it more enjoyable place to be.
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jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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I agree that a .squelch list would be wonderful.
EverQuest has an /ignore list and the only drawback is that it has a limit of 20. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
However I do agree with Yeager and Jochen that an a-hole list is rather undesireable.
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Hi LLB <S> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I think as in AW a monitor would help along with squelch. Gas was a bit much. I don't mind the people yelling about head on dweebs and all the other game related banter but Gas and that J0E something and his gay killing comments just before that. I love freedom of speech but can't it be combined with common courtesy! Man it still surprises me to see someone like Gas. <S> to all the rest of the sane people (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Permanent squelch wouldent be any help against the most dangerous effects of the whine and squeak culture in AcesHigh:
A lot of newbies gets very annoyed by the very hostile tone.
The old experienced simmers will find the community childish, and will stay out.
Some of the newbies will get scared away, and that leaves them who actually like that the tone is hostile and childish.
My point is offcourse that newcommers wont use the squelch command, because they have to learn the commandsystem first.
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GrinBird
[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Originally posted by SKurj:
Watched a character by the name of Gas tonight, first thing I saw in the text buffer from him I think was "FUK YOU JEWS"
i saw that too skurj - was pretty blatant - noticed a lot of insults and silly "i actually killed somebody so here goes my victory dance and insults" kinda comments - seems like those kind really dont have the staying power though - some kind of formal thing might be too much though they seem to cycle through when the community dogs em enough (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Get rid of the two week freebie and you'll nip a lot of this scum in the bud.
No excuse for such language/behavior on any radio channel.
As for paying subs:
should be 1,2,3 strikes your out. Anyone who can't control themselves needs to go, regardless of their flying ability or rank. This could be a simple warning email generated off a perl script from a text capture of a day's radio text. All automated as not to waste AH's programming time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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I wanted to know what the Bucs were up to last night. I asked on Ch. 1, "Hey Bucs, I'll switch to Knights, are you guys still flying?" No response. I called out Bucs I saw in the Kill buffer. Nada.
I was going to use priv mode, but I think they had .squelch 1 all on. I figured, the heck with it, I'll stay Rooks in case squadmates come up.
It's kinda sad that you must use priv mode because so many people have 1 squelched entirely. A more selective system that the server retained in the DBMS would be really nice.
X2
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Most folks can handle a few swear words on the text buffer. Its the racial slurs that most of us can not, and will not tolerate. The software now warns you not to use foul language but fails to include racial slurs. That's why I would like to have a permanent squelch list ability.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-03-2001).]
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I like you're Idea AKwabbit. I for one think a permanant squalch list Is needed. I also think Game Ops could used and Also awards as well as squadron particiapation would help as well. The only peoblem I have with yoru idea is
1) I use squalching as a way to clean up radio trafic as well as a way ingnore bone heads and people that are just blowing off steam frustrated and angry.
2) you now some is going to shoot for and be proud of the "Arse of the Year" award.
I think there are alot of things needed to save it. make it tighter and promote good game play with award and punishment with squad partisipation.
Promote being in a squad with it's own reward and ask the squads to observer certian rules will also help.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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>Why would you need a permanant squelch list?
LLB,
Why do you fear it?
SwampRat,
Not sure how you see enabling users with more choice as a Fascist thing? I simply want to give users the choice to see or not see certain other users comments as they see fit.
>This would lead to no-flying-skill-dweebs to trying to reach the top stunninghunk >position with lots of flames in board and CH 1. No go.
Jochen,
Yeah I thought of that. But to reach the top position he’s have to be squelched by a large portion of the community in which case no one hears him anymore anyway. Either way the problem is solved. And he won’t enjoy that top slot so much when he’s got 4 bandits on him and he’s calling for help and no one hears him because they all have him squelched. He’ll regret that top slot when he goes to apply for membership in a squadron and they look at his squelch stats and see he must have a history of pissing people off. Without the stats there is no negative reinforcement. He not only needs to be squelched, but he has to KNOW he’s been squelched. Feedback is an important feature of behavioral modification.
>I would agree with this only if its easy to do, since I'd rather type squelch in if it
>meant getting other features/Aircraft any faster.
Rip,
I decided not to press for this again until 1.05 got released. We’ve been given lots of tools for game play now. I think we need a couple for community management. Its an equally important half of the equation. Without it, even with cool planes, the environment will become too toxic to enjoy.
Thanks for your input guys. I’d kinda like to know how HTC feels about this. Not an immediate decision but just a “sense of the court” so to speak.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Great idea, Wab. Best idea I've heard of in a long, long time.
<S>
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Not to address wether this is a great idea or not. I dont like the score page idea. But enhancing the roster screen so that it has a column to allow a person to be squelched and then preserve that value in a local file would seem to be a good way to implement it.
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Hell there's days Ide like to shut channel 1 and the system messages off!
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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you now as a lazy person Ide also like to have a complete permanant prefrence file. I'de like to start up with certian options. like clutter off, frame rate counter off, and my perma squalch list all set. including the abilaty to start up with system messages off and channels shut off, like 1 and sometimes 2.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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I support the permanent squelch.
miko
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FEAR!???
I fear nothing. In the whole time i have flown WB's and AH I have never squelched anyone. No matter how unruly someone is they havent ever got under my skin(unless Im way drunk) :0 I have very thick skin. Anyway, i enjoy channel one and the stupid and amusing stuff that goes on there. If you let yourself get offended by a stupid little scroll buffer than ya got problems mate. Sticks and stones and all that jazz. I would rather see HTC working on something productive like a KI84 than on a stupid squelch command for thin skinned people. Just my Opinion.......
HI BUG332<another friend I made after haveing a nice duel in the TA, after a big insult throwing contest in the MA> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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>FEAR!???
>I fear nothing.
I think you fear losing a captive audience. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Regards,
Wab
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How many of the "toxic" comments are for real?
I like to play the "dozens"<swapping insults>with people and it seems many folks don't recognize what I'm doing. (LLBM does)<G>
At any rate my New Years resolution was to limit my ch1 comments-especially about the _____C. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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LLBM is JIHAD or is JIHAD LLBM?
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I strongly support a permanent squelch list.
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No offense Wabbit.
I think I misunderstood the actual meaning of the permanent squelch list as basicly a permanent mute across the board of someone who got added to it. What I think I'm seeing now is the opportunity by any player to "turn on" the list..which I have to say really is a good idea. Incindentally, in my many years on AW and off-n-on's in WB I have seen some of the biggest loudmouths change thier way's for the better and become respectable players..which sort of drove my reaction to this thread as I understood it at the time. Sorry for the knee-jerk reaction there.
While I agree it is a good idea I'd only support it if it's VERY easy to do by HTC. I'd much rather they be spending thier time working up new stuff than fooling with something we really can do ourselves.
As far as the community being in decline, I wouldn't know. I've checked in with AH since it began and never really saw a problem and I agree with whoever posted earlier saying they had a thick skin, I simply can't fathom letting some ignorant fool get to me with type-written words, whatever they may be.
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I like the idea of squelch list, as I wrote many times. But it seems one thing here... Just imagine that the guy you squelched has changed... It can happen, and you will not have chance to know it because he will be in your squelch list. So how about setting time of squelch with steps 1-4 weeks?
And I am against the "bad guys" list. Some people will specially act bad to be high even in this list.
Fariz
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How about this? Everybody including me gets mad and writes down what pisses them off the most on a piece of paper and then we go out into the back yard and burn it up.
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>But it seems one thing here... Just imagine
>that the guy you squelched has changed...
>It can happen, and you will not have chance
>to know it because he will be in your
>squelch list.
Good Point.
A squelch timeout period would be one possible answer like you said. However, I don't like the idea that the effort is placed back on the user to have to re-enter the offender everytime. Someone I've had to squelch should not get back into my buffer unless I specifically decide to allow him back.
In the instance you cite above, I'd prefer a different approach.
One day this guy checks his stats and realizes that 85% of the user community has him squelched. He started realizing that no one was answering his calls for help because everyone has him squelched. No one seems to reply when he tries to join in on missions and its like he isn't even there. 3 squads have turned him down for membership citing poor social skills. He begins to re-evaluate his past behavior and realizes that he may have been acting like a real jerk lately. He realizes that if he wants to be a part of the community again, and be able to join in then he must reasonable behave within the norms of the community.
Maybe he should publicly apologize on the BBS for his past poor behavior in the arena, admit he was in the wrong and request that the community give him a second chance. Those that feel like giving him a second chance can CHOSE to allow him back into their buffers. Those that aren't convinced can pass for now and maybe watch his stats for a while. If his squelch stats go down (people gave him a chance) then shoots right back up (back to old habbits) then you know he's full of crap and keep him squelched.
Once someone has behaved badly enough that I need to Perma-Squelch them, then the burden is on THEM to prove to me why I should give them a second chance, not the other way around.
Ofcourse, we'd still have the current squelch too that you type in manually at the buffer line. So if its a one time thing I can just put him in the temp squelch buffer and next time I log he'll be visible agian. If its a repeating offender then I'll drop him in the perma-squelch file and he should stay in there until I am convinced of a reason I should take him out. Temp-squelch, Perma-squelch. Choice. Choice is good.
Thats just my personal opinion.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-03-2001).]
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I too have noticed the increase in insults on the open channel. I have never squelched anyone, or the open channel. I try not to let it get to me, but the fact of the matter is that all of the whining, insults, and bad language does take something away from the game. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I can only imagine what a newbie thinks the first time he sees this...
When I'm online I don't say anything on the open channel (or try very hard not to) that I believe will hurt the game for anyone else. If I type something on 1, it's either:
A. tech support answer or question.
B. <S> after a good fight.
C. Discussing the WWII history that often comes up in the buffer.
I was unfortunate enough to be online last night when this Gas fellow had his little tirade. I'm sure most of us that were online just tried to ignore him, but the fact is that this kind of behavior will destroy the community if nothing is done. I think that the learning curve is pretty steep for this game, which does tend to get some of the newer players irritated when they just can't instantly get kill after kill. IMO there are few games with a steeper learning curve than this one. This is a double-edged sword. On one side you will have some people who just can't figure it out fast enough and will blow up on the open channel. This causes veteran players to get angry and usually an open channel dispute is the result. The other edge is that this game has the greatest potential for improvement. It is always the most challenging games that become classics. In AH there is so much to do that anyone can have fun if they put in the time to get good at it.
The best way to make the game better IMO is with good documentation and a strong community. All the negative posts that have popped up recently would make a newbie think twice about putting the time in to get maximum enjoyment out of the game.
IMO a permanent squelch list is at best a "sweep it under the rug" solution. It's kind of like the old saying: "If a tree falls in the woods without anybody around, does it make a sound?" My answer is yes.
I am not opposed to a permanent squelch list at all, but IMO something must be done to address the root causes of the problem rather than just pretending nothing is happening. Sure, a PSL will increase the enjoyment of the game for a few people. The problem is that those without a PSL created yet will still have to see what is said. (This will be mainly newbies.)
I've been thinking hard about what could be done to improve AH and here are a few of the ideas I've came up with:
A. Help documentation included with the game download. Included should be a very basic FAQ detailing how to do things like keymapping, using the vehicles, taking off, basic key commands etc. This will reduce the number of people complaining on the open channel, and therefore reduce the number of arguments online.
B. Player written guides on how to fly a particular plane available online. We tried this before and it seemed to work well. Good posts about things like strategy should also be punted from time to time. My thinking here is that if players see write ups by other players just like them and then see that player online, it will increase the community spirit. It will also help lower the initial learning curve somewhat for the newer players interested in things like E fighting etc.
C. Good forums like the O' Club and History forums. I think that all of us who play AH are, for the most part, share common interests. IMO if I met just about anyone here in person I would find them interested in the same things that I am. Having forums to discuss WWII history and other common interests helps bond the community. Later on if you end up fighting that person online you will be more likely to enjoy that fight rather than getting angry.
I think AH is in a period of heavy growth. In time the community will improve if we take steps now to ensure that it does. AH certainly has the potential to become the best online flight sim, but HTC alone can't do everything. A PSL is at best a temporary solution to the problem that does nothing to combat the real underlying issues. That said I still think it's a good idea that should be included in the game.
I guess I've rambled on long enough. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Hmm.... Good point SwampRat about people changin'....
I absolutely *hated* torque when he 1st showed up...
Now Torque, like Creamo, is one of my favorite guys in the game.
And no Torque - I don't got a crush on ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) .... Just usin' this as an example of how a perma-squelch list *does* come with some disadvantages.
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>Sure, a PSL will increase the enjoyment of
>the game for a few people. The problem is
>that those without a PSL created yet will
>still have to see what is said. (This will
>be mainly newbies.)
Ha! Already got an answer for you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
When you install AH now it comes with default config files for key mapping joystick config, etc. The player can accept the defualt settings or go in and re-configure themselves.
PermaSquelch.cfg will come pre-populated with the top 10% of user Id's query'd from the Scores DB "amazinhunk" list according to the ranking at the time of the version release. You know, the usual suspects. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This post was, at least, half in jest. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)]
Regards,
Wab
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Originally posted by Torque:
LLBM is JIHAD or is JIHAD LLBM?
Nope Torque, I'm a holy war - LLBM is a Large Loud Bowel Movement. <G>
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I just wanted to point something out...
Folks mentioned Gas and his way over the top crapola the other night. I know that info on his offensive language was sent to HTC and you won't find him online anymore.
HTC can and will take care of it if somebody is being extremely offensive. Screenshot or film it and send the evidence to HTC and something will be done.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Lephturn..
Gas was back the very next morning....
If it takes HiTech a day or even 4 to implement a permasquelch list, its worth it IMO. The community has never been so bad..
AKskurj
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I agree! Permanent Squelch List!
I disagree on the a-hole ranking though - that gives the losers the attention they are after anyway just in a different and probably just as pleasing to them form.
The vocal and obnoxious minority would garner a smaller and smaller audience and eventually they would only have their own little clique of friends to spout off to. Then the isolation would set in and hopefully they might see it is a lot better to be a community member than a community antagonist.
Permanent Squelch List! Si!
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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i love it give um what they want of they will whine forever . ohh well really they will com up with another whine when they get the squelch but at least we wont have to listen to the antiwhine (TM).
really just to hot in the kitchen they made.
each nuby is gona make the same discoverys and squeak about them even faster then they (THE appologists) can run them off with pompas reactionary drivil they blow 24/7.please by all means hand them the bucket of sand they will need to put their head in to ignore the other 98% of the community. its only decent
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Well, towd I was never good at decifering your pidgeon english, but if there was ever a poster child for the permanent squelch list, it'd be you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You'll be the first in my squelch list, and there you'll stay.
Regards,
Wab
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A software driven filter can never replace human morality. Netiquette is all but non-existant amongst many(not all) newcomers to the net. "Back in the day..." when you had to pay by the hour to log into your ISP and compiled onto pay2play for your gaming service or the central server you played on there were far fewer outbursts and much less of the childish behaviour exhibited by a majority of people logging onto the internet now-a-days. You think I'm wrong? Build a time machine and go back 5 years, it would seem as if people were talking face to face and worried about upsetting the next fella in fear of getting a good ol' fashioned bellybutton whooping. It simply wasn't worth the flat rate coupled with 2$/hr to piss someone off, no you wanted to spend that money having fun. Now ISPs cost between 10$ to 30$ a month and the freebie accounts are the foundation for the immature behaviour. ~15$ all the smack you can talk sure does sound intruiging to someone who wouldn't dare say a thing to a human face to face for fear of getting the $h*t beat out of him or even death, instead he releases his rage anonymously over the internet.
Isn't technology great, it lessens physical human interaction and promotes anonymity which allows people to behave like "damn dirty apes"((c) Austin Powers the Spy That Shagged Me).
I remember the "golden years" of the internet and online gaming, those are the memories that stay with me. Those were the days when people respected the other person's opinion and interacted as if they were adults, regardless of age.
If we come to rely on software to replace morals and netiquette, what then? Where do we go from there? I don't know, only time will tell.
No Wab, I don't think your idea is a bad one, but I felt like ranting. I'm sorry for hijacking your thread buddy.
Ah well, Me and my thoughts are insignificant and I am only one person. I just remember my days in WB when a vulgarity filter wasn't required. Really what we are searching for is not a filter for the absent minded who can't keep their fingers from spewing the drivel that is brewing in their minds... no, we need a set of standards for online play. They don't abide by them, no more account. When I first joined WB(CK at the time) I read all the documents I could find, and one of them was written up by someone very popular there(his name escapes me at the moment) but they were a set of guidelines on how to behave inside the game and on the message boards. I tried to abide by them at all times, and I was 13 years old at the time. Surely we could find the decency within ourselves to respect one another and think before we type?
Time for a personal anecdote, if you don't care then skip this. Back before I started playing CK I had a 486SX/33 incapable of running CK because it required a math co-processors which were in the DX models of the 486. Well I would read the messages posted in the CK area of CIS (that's CompuServe to those who weren't around at the time) and I read something about inflight radar and some other things which I didn't comprehend since I hadn't seen the game interface at the time. Well I made some remarks on how things like that shouldn't be available because they are too "arcadish" or something to that effect. I was quickly ripped a new one by a few guys and tagert. A week or so later after some "heated" debates I had "seen the light" and ended up becoming good friends with tagert. He told me the necessary information to upgrade my processor so I could play CK and a month or two later I was up and running playing the game. I learned a few things from tagert, most importantly how to act like an adult while I was still very young (remember.. 13 years old). I am very appreciative to him for him taking his time online helping me getting up and running(remember 2$/hr for just surfing the net!!), and for the lessons he gave me. Anyway, since then I have tried to behave as he showed me to and be able to "set an example" as he did for me. A lot of the times it doesn't work out that way, but if I make a mistake I definitely try to right my wrongs. And that's something a software driven filter will never be capable of doing.
One more thing, when tagert and I became online buddies it was at a very traumatic point in my life. If you care to know, you can email me and I'll tell ya but I don't feel a BBS is a place to air your real life story. ;-)
Sorry about my tirade but I just had to get this off my chest.
-SW
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If the squelch list is permanent, what happens when the handle is reused by another player new to the game. There are more than a couple players that left and came back as someone else as the original handle was taken by a new person. Of course some just changed handles to avoid the notoriety they already earned.
I just squelch the individual or if necessary then channel one.
Mav
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Maverick the squelch would not be truly permanent.
All I want is that when I issue a command like ".squelch ReTaRd", ReTaRd is squelched not just for that session, but for all sessions until I issue the ".unsquelch ReTaRd" command.
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Funked,
How are you going to know if ReTaRd leaves and the handle is used again?? That is the point I was asking about. Seems a permanent squelch is a bit extreme. Maybe I just don't spend that much time in MA so it's not a big deal to me. Doing the odd individual isn't a problem. Just my $.02 is all.
Mav
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When you close an account handles are locked until requested to be released by the original owner of that handle.
-SW
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my veiw is this:
if someone is constantly shouting racist comments just send their names to HTC and get rid of them if its just whining ignore it
if you dont like them shoot them down.
anything else is a waste of HTC's effort.
I'd rather have more planes.
Also this system would be open to abuse.look at how citabria gets so much flak online when really all hes guilty of is being good.
sure he complains now and again but so do we,
we all have those short tempered days right?
if a squad for instance was to decide to blacken someones name they would be ableto do so easily with 20+ votes etc.
If there is someone online who really is irritating just squelch em.I mean really do you meet that many annoying people every day?
I dont.but i see one in the mirror every morning (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
hazed
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Great Post Wabbit, I don't post or read the WB often but the environment is getting a little out of control. I agree with you're post but I'd like to see it go further and after being squelched by the majority of the community how about a few days disablement to think about it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why not just let them know they've been squelched? You know, return a message to them that says something like: "Voss thinks you are a turd." and repeat it for every user that has the 'whiner' squelched? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LOL! heh
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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I find that squelching only is basically used after someone has already made comment to someone elses' inane remarks. rule #1 don't be a jerk! Don't respond to childish taunting. I ignore it, I'm here to enjoy myself not to get into a shouting match with someone that has the IQ of a squid. although in some cases the squid most certainly can come up with better responses then I've seen on channel 1 <G> Ignore....do what I do, as in the movie "The Wizard of Oz" I pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Screw the permanent squelch list, just have it if more than 25% of the online players squelch a specific person it will boot them off the server for an hour.
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 01-04-2001).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Love the pink plane and banner thing LOL!
Pepe
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Squelching individuals would be a nice feature. I usually squelch channel 1 as soon as I enter the arena. This is due to the concerns listed above and also because there really is a lot of BS'ing on it (Not that I have anything against that, but it just gets in the way of text calls between team mates and can have a negative effect on SA).
As such, what I would like to see is the ability to toggle on `one more' text buffer.
Then make it so we can set which channels are viewable in each buffer. This would allow me to toggle a group of channels at once, instead of one seperately. For instance, I would have channels 3 and 4 visible all the time and place channels 1 and 2 in the buffer that I would toggle on and off periodically. This would be in addition to being able to squelch individuals. Just my POV.
BTW, as much as we get bad examples here, I don't think the sky in AH is falling. Remember, the glass is neither half full nor half empty. It is twice as big as it needs to be! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Now, about getting rid of these 256 x 256 maps and going to a 512 x 512 map....
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
Surely we could find the decency within ourselves to respect one another and think before we type?
not if society at large is any model! i believe that even common manners will have to be idiot-proofed someday - you dont get anything from being polite and no one judges adversely you if you arent so the incentive is gone - the community has to command it or just as in rl it will disappear - <apocalypse mode off>
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Hi Wabbit - Great Idea.
just one thing I'd like to mention, if it ahsnt already been done:
If someone is permanently squelched, he will never be heard again. Ok, one might think that you dont want to hear anything from him forever, but you should consider that there are online-games in which swearing is quite common.
Somone who is new to this and this community (esp. from foreign countries where swearing isnt considered _that_ bad) might come here with a foul mouth and get squelched by many, just to be seen (read?) never again.
This happened to me few months ago, and as someone said I should choose my words a bit better, I was actually pleasantly surprised.
Maybe there should be a permanent squelch-list only for every tour or something. I still believe it is only a minority that is just speaking too loud. So we prevent newbies from getting totally squelched from day one. And after not beeing heard by anyone for a whole month or so I think the most would stop. And for those who dont, they will be on the squelch-list again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
OK, just a thing to think about i thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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CU
Purzel
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"Find the enemy and shoot him down, everything else is nonsense!"
M. von Richthofen
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Just make a page where u can vote on the worst pilot just as a signal to the pilot.
I came from EAW where we saluted every pilot
I came in AH and i saluted every time when i got killed in the beginning, offcourse i kept saluting as i got banged and banged again. This made me very tired off it and i stopped very quickly.
I felt stupid as in most cases i didn't got a salute back. In the end these fights caught me so that i shouted on ch 1 gotcha!!.
This became a bit worser and worser.
I say sometimes fk dweeb or sissy but i would not get personally at all.
The word fk is so commonly used that we in holland got affected by it, that it is a pretty natural word here.
I know that swearing and shouting makes u look stupid. And i try to stop myself but it's hard.
Than again an invitation to the TA is not a bad idea and anyone also in reallife know i'm not so worse at all.
Point is the AH community is a nice community
with lotsa interesting different people.
Why ask HTC what to when we can ask ourselfes what to do.
If u really get insulted say so and try to talk to the other guy and the best way to that is to invite him to the TA and solve the problem instead off playing god.
S! chaps
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322:
The word fk is so commonly used that we in holland got affected by it, that it is a pretty natural word here.
I know that swearing and shouting makes u look stupid. And i try to stop myself but it's hard.
Try harder.
It's plain ignorance and lack of maturity to use language offense to most watching. Cuss and swear out loud to yourself, just don't take the time and effort to type it.
Eagler