Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev367th on July 04, 2004, 03:19:42 PM
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Would be more fun with stuff like this.
(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/nighthurri.jpg)
Maybe a slight change in selection whereby if you select any ord you cant have the night skin for fighters etc.
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Slide gamma all the way left for night time view :aok
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I know, but never did that anyway.
Somehow disabling it would make things real fun.
Imagine a night furball with all night fighter skins.
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I miss night time. Use to climb up to 12k in my 190 d9 and cherry pick the furballers. If they bring back night, if you dont like it log off for a few. Disable gamma once night hits, just like missions were disabled when night hit. And if you need to cheat and move the gamma, that proves your just sad that you need to cheat at a night SIM. I imagine any pilots in WWII would be more then happy with a gamma bar in the cockpit to "cheat".
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God I hated night, almost as much as I hated fuel porking.
Night was the only thing that could cause MA numbers to noticably (and inevitably) decrease the moment dusk fell. Not even the fuel porking did that.
AH2 is fun largely because there's no night and no porked fuel, seeing as those are about the only signifigant changes to the air war in the MA between AH2 and AH. Still, night has its place (special events and such) so I am just not completely against its existance....I just hated seeing it in the MA. The MA is a place where you should ALWAYS be able to take off and quickly find some action. There shouldn't be a crapshoot when you log on of "maybe i'll be able to see" or "maybe I'll have enough fuel" or "maybe i'll have a means of locating the enemy" (bar dar).
The MA still isn't perfect. Sector counters need to be made undestroyable and bases need to be closer on most maps...but yeah we already have a 100% improvement in fun over what AH was.
I sort of miss the rainstorms though and wouldn't mind seeing them return, provided the framerate hit would be minimal.
J_A_B
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Unfortuneately I disagree on most of your points.
If this is a 'Sim' and not a game (as advertised), then why should DAR be undestroyable, why should fuel be unporkable etc etc.
Seems as though peolple only want the realism that suits their gameplay, e.g lets have more realistic ballistics and flight models but we don't want anything else that gets in the way, or happens to be inconvenient. Make a choice one way or another.
Just how close do want bases, the majority (not all) are within 25 miles of each other, any closer we could fire at each other at the ends of the runways.
This is why in another post I said we are have two ways of playing that CANNOT co-exist as things stand. Some prefer furballs others building battling. At the moment the "Sim" is heavily biased towards the furballers.
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I understand where your coming from J_A_B, your perspective is that of a furballer, no offense intended. I myself and a porker. I like to beable to beable to change a course of a battle. This is my perspective. Night has nothing to do with porking. Its just an aspect of everyday life, unless you live by the poles, that I believe should be included in the game.
And aint it Dar Bar ???
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Man I keep trying to explain how i am NOT against air-to-ground combat (I know i sometimes seem as though I am) and actually feel everything should have an inportant role in AH, but my post keeps growing too long.
Just let me say this--I have nothing against various styles of fighting, only how they are implemented in AH.
As for what to "simulate"?
Simulate the fight...be it A2A or A2G. Get rid of the non-fighting stuff or reduce it to a bare minimum without resorting to things like air starts or such nonsense.
Seriously...even for the people who mostly fly JABO planes....do you have more fun flying in on your bomb run, dodging the ack and enemy fighters while trying to hit your target, or on a 30 mile climbout from your base? I frequently hear stuff like "OMG I can't believe I just hit that FH with those Spits on my 6 like that hahaha they augered chasing me!!!!"
When was the last time you heard someone say "OMG I just took off and climbed to 20K man I'm sweatin from the excitement"?
The fun is in the kill, in the success of your objective, in the fight. That is what separates a game like AH from something like MSFS2004.
Perhaps, in AH, "furball" and "building battling" are indeed mutually exclusive. This means that the AH strat system probably needs work.
J_A_B
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Nightime was fun..bring it on.
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Nightime was fun..bring it on.
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sorry..internet lag :(
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Strats need overhauling - OMG finally we agree on something J.A.B ;) . Guess it won't matter now the end of the world is near.
What is the non-fighting stuff?
Actually MSFS2004 has its own level of satisfaction for lots and lots of peolple. I would guess that more people own FS2004 than play AH2.
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Wasn't trying to badmouth MSFS200X or any such games, just pointing out that they're a different breed of animal than AH.
I consider "non-fighting stuff" to be...well....stuff you are doing when you're not fighting, or perhaps more accurately things which make it harder/more time-consuming on a global level to reach combat.
I'm not worried about limting action on a local level; indeed, this is required in order to capture bases and such. If you are going to have a moving front, then you HAVE to have some means of limiting the enemy's ability to fight on a local level in order to permit the capture of territory--or to slow an advance. As such, Tactical airstrikes (air-to-ground fighters) are an integral part of the game (so much for me hating the building battlers, huh?).
What I dislike is when something happens that makes it harder to operate anywhere in the entire arena, be it player-caused or environmental.
It's the difference between seeing one base at 25% fuel (you can take off somewhere else) and seeing EVERY base at 25% fuel (game breaker). Or it's the difference between losing Dot-radar (doesn't affect ability to find the fight) and losing sector counters (now you don't know if that horde of friendlies you're following is heading to a huge fight or an undefended base). Or it's even the difference between a 3-5 minute climbout after takeoff (check map and form a plan) or a 10-15 minute climbout (go afk and BBQ a steak).
None of these are "furball centric"....A2G guys need to know where the enemy is--It is useless to hit the FH of an empty base, and it is Equally useless to attempt a NOE capture run to a base with 30 enemies around it! It is also to their benefit to have shorter non-combat flight times because it means more ordnance delivered per hour. Night-time is probably the only one of the "combat inhibiting factors" which don't really affect the air-to-ground guys too much (it arguably benefits them) while massively affecting the air-to-air fighting. This is why night is probably the hardest to form a middle-ground between the different players. In all situations compromises are possible.
This is why I liked the local storms...it gave the A2G guys a certain level of cover to operate from in crowded airspace while having almost no negative effect on the air-to-air guys (you could simply fly over it or fly somewhere else). In other words, storms did the same thing as night, but were a local condition instead of an arena-wide condition. Allowing for clouds at different or lower altitudes would be even better--as long as framerates could handle it!
And yes, AH's strat system could use some signifigant tweaks. If nothing else at least we can agree on that.
J_A_B
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I agree with you J_A_B. I also realized that A2A guys are in it for the action of dogfights and non stop fun. Theres nothing wrong with that and I wish my p38 could climb fast enough to have nonstop action like you guys. A2G guys are not asking for complete porking of bases. Just something to beable to slow the hordes. Would A2A guys have a problem with maybe night time but only half the normal amount of time it was in AH1 ? My reasons for night is not porking based. I just found I had more fun in the night dodging groups of high alt planes and attacking unsuspecting planes. Right now I have no problme getting to a base to pork troops or ord. Im not worried about being discovered. I also agree weather should be brought into AH2, ONLY after the majority of the bugs have been eliminated and FR permiting.
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Surely part of the game would be to make hard for people, or we would be back to lazer 20mms, easier fms, dayglo aircraft and so on. I prefer it to be 'not easy', if that means going back a sector for fuel, so be it. Think we definately need some form of input from HT on this and the night subject.
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Something from HT would be nice on the whole pork and night issue.
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I really miss the night time. I know folk moaned about it. I also know some, not all, couldn't be arsed to sort out their Gamma. Perhaps night should last less than it was in AH I. Perhaps 40% or err 50 % less time.
As for strat guys (me included here) i.e goon jabo and bombers, night time is / was a blessing. I would like to see it back.
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I would love to see night come back. IIRC it didnt last that long to begin with but it was fun!
I think it would add to the imersion part of the game. Disabling the gamma slider fully or even partially would be a good idea too.
I really dont understand why its not back in the game. I remember HT's original comment on why it was taken out and IMHO it should be reinstated.
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Unfortuneately I disagree on most of your points.
If this is a 'Sim' and not a game (as advertised), then why should DAR be undestroyable, why should fuel be unporkable etc etc.
Seems as though peolple only want the realism that suits their gameplay, e.g lets have more realistic ballistics and flight models but we don't want anything else that gets in the way, or happens to be inconvenient. Make a choice one way or another.
Just how close do want bases, the majority (not all) are within 25 miles of each other, any closer we could fire at each other at the ends of the runways.
This is why in another post I said we are have two ways of playing that CANNOT co-exist as things stand. Some prefer furballs others building battling. At the moment the "Sim" is heavily biased towards the furballers.
I agree, but HT must feel like a yo-yo trying to please ppl all the time.
Night ,than no-night.
Now some want the night again.:confused:
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Bring back the Night, Bring back the ability to pork. Leave all else the same....and to keep the furballers happy...
New triangle arena with 3 bases at 10k 10miles apart and a tank town below, Bases unporkable!!!
Then when you get bored with that game, come back to the Main arena and play a simulation.
RHIN0
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I would like to see night again.
In AH1 I didn't like it much but in AH2 I can actually see the ground. I have become a total bomber pilot in AH2 and it would be nice if once in a while they couldn't see my slow moveing dot's on the horizon. night would be fine as long as I can see the target in my bomb sight. :)
I understand that the furballers might not like it much but let us few buff pilots have some fun too. This from a buffs point of view.
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Say no to night, and NO to fuel and base porking!!
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Say no to night, and NO to fuel and base porking!!
I understand about the base porking...I get that.
Why not have night? Why is it a big deal to not have it?
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If we're going to have the sun be a red giant in the sky then bring on the night to balance it out. Better yet bring out the night whenever rooks out number bish 3:1.
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Night gives opportunity to the thnking fighter pilot, too. I miss the careful dot dar scanning, guessing the buffs target, upping an interceptor and positioning the attack angle.... sneaking up hopefully undetected and finally whaling away. Night NOE bomb runs, with icons below the bombers -- what a challenge that would be to stop!
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sorry -- just edited out my double post. D*&% internet lag
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Be interesting to find out which country had the highest percentage of complaints about porking and night...I have my suspicions.
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Although I did enjoy AH when they did have completely dark night time, I'm unsure whether I'd like to see its return mostly because it screwed my eyes up! It wouldn't be too bad if you could alter the brightness of the clipboard, but everytime you brought it up it dazzled you and screwed you eyes up again.
Anyway, with the introduction of the gamma slider it would be pointless reintroducing it because people would just turn their gamma up. Even if it was 'forced' night time you can still adjust gamma externally - I have my video card mapped to a couple of key presses to increase/decrease gamma in game.
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I think night would require more thought.................
It should really be the preserve of the night battles of WWII between night fighters and night bombers as well as the deep night time "intruder" missions................
It would require changes to augment.............
Shortening icon mode as it gets darker.......
Air borne radar............. (Oboe etc)
Search lights...............
Very Lights fired from ack....................
Not to mention a plane set of the various night fighters and intruders...........
Mossie, Hurri, Ju88, ME110 equipped in their night fighter/interceptor roles
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
I understand about the base porking...I get that.
Why not have night? Why is it a big deal to not have it?
It's just me. I log in at night after I get the kids to bed and get done with my school work, etc. All I want is to do is find a really good furball or some symblance of one where I can fly the AC I want. When the fuel was down to 25%, I couldn't do that, at least for more than a few minutes.
Nightime just sux for my eyes . I hate having to work that hard to *see* my virtual enemy. I just want to relax and have some virtual air to air combat.
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Night does not have to be related to the real time of day. If you give 20hrs day, 1/4 hr dawn and dusk, 1 1/2 hr night and allow to free run, the 22hr cycle would automatically shift to different GMT timess, and you'd still have 90% chance of sunshine -- better than the real world!
However, night may be better suited to the non MA arenas anyway. Adding the limited ground radar, short range accurate fighter radar, true nightfighters, searchlights, etc would be a rush -- but probably unrealistic expectation in light of major work going on elsewhere.
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mmm searchlights. This may allow for heavy caliber gun emplacments on feild to reach 10k buffs.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
It's just me. I log in at night after I get the kids to bed and get done with my school work, etc. All I want is to do is find a really good furball or some symblance of one where I can fly the AC I want. When the fuel was down to 25%, I couldn't do that, at least for more than a few minutes.
Nightime just sux for my eyes . I hate having to work that hard to *see* my virtual enemy. I just want to relax and have some virtual air to air combat.
I understand where your comming from.
WOW its been sooo long since I've seen a well constructed inteligent aurgument on a topic without the ussual whines and insult hurling....I think I need a drink!!
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so you wish not to bring night even tho bomber flights came in night after night in WW2 with fighters going after them
if this is a WW2 sim and night is not on
then this game needs to be rename
ACES IN THE DAY
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I'm thinkin-
night will likely return full force in TOD. It also seems logical that they will want to do some testing for nite settings before TOD is released so it is likely you will see it in MA before TOD is released.
Now this is all speculation on my part, and I base it on the concept that TOD will be set for max realism, leaving MA or "classic" to be the furball/hordesweep it is today.
In the past whenever I wanted some quick fiter action and the MA was dark or horded, I would go to H2H. There are often small team based arenas that cater to wingman tactics, and if you cant find 1.... open your own:D
Anton
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bring back night, turn killshotter off and give us decent ejection graphics!
then AH2 will be without a problem.
Batfink
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Originally posted by mechanic
......ejection graphics!
Batfink
Hey! Hey! ....no porn on the BBS!!!!!You dirty old....i mean , young man!!!
:cool:
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Originally posted by Kev367th
...If this is a 'Sim' and not a game (as advertised), then why should DAR be undestroyable, why should fuel be unporkable etc etc.
Seems as though peolple only want the realism that suits their gameplay, e.g lets have more realistic ballistics and flight models but we don't want anything else that gets in the way, or happens to be inconvenient...
This is a BS arguement. Sim vs. game. Holy crap, think about what you typed.
Name one time during WW2 when a single building was bombed and radar was lost for an entire country.
Find one instance of a mission to specifically target fuel bunkers at an enemy airfield.
What you want is cheezey pretend "strat", where any nipple head can use little effort for large effect.
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night time was fun. Would like to see it come back.
There were some like me who had a completely black screen when it went night so I DID use the gamma correction, can't play if you cant see anything. So I adjusted the gamma a little bit until I was able to see a little better and played.
Maybe they could leave the gamma adjustment, re introduce nightt ime and also dramitically shorten the range you could see enemy icons etc.
Oh well - my 2 cents
Acetnt
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Partly agree Furious.
The whole strat system needs overhauling.
I also agree with Willdcrd comments.
The 'original' whole point of the thread was that it's a shame night may never return. Now we can do custom skins a few night fighters up, or a night fighter furball would be (IMO) kinda fun (especially without using gamma correction).