Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Heretic on July 05, 2004, 07:47:48 PM
-
Gentlemen,
I am curious if anyone here would like to see a four barelled flak vehicle. We have the M16 with .50 caliber weapons which is nice but the surviablity is rather low. Did the allies have any flak vehicles that were four barelled with 20 MM weapons? I know the Germans did and would like to see this vehicle incorporated into the new game but not sure if HT has any plans for any future flak vehicles. Not sure what the caliber is on the 4 barelled vehicle 20mm or 37mm? Would for sure be a very formidable vehicle.
Any one out there would like to see such a vehicle incorporated into the game? If anyone has any inside info (LOL) if HT would make such a vehicle it sure would be nice to hear about it.
I found this website on a search done here on this BBS and it shows such vehicles did exist. I'm just not sure what the caliber of the weapons were.
http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html
-
The vehicle you are talking about is the Whirbelwind.
-
The Canadians had a AAA tank called a skink(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/can/skink.jpg)
-
Where's LTAR!?
-
Right here baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
What you are referring to my friend is the
W I R B E L W I N D :aok My favorite ride
(http://pvo.guns.ru/images/other/germany/2ww/spaag01_02.jpg)
4 - 20mm cannons for those pesky A/C that seem to want to hang around our airfield.
-
Gentlemen,
Thanks for the responses. Now what would our chances be to see this particular vehicle modeled for game play? Sure would be a great GV to have in the arsenal would it not? LOL !!
I guess one can dream.
Oh and by the way I wasn't sure if this topic has been brought up b4 so I apologize if it has.
Thanks
-
Originally posted by MOIL
Right here baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
What you are referring to my friend is the
W I R B E L W I N D :aok My favorite ride
(http://pvo.guns.ru/images/other/germany/2ww/spaag01_02.jpg)
4 - 20mm cannons for those pesky A/C that seem to want to hang around our airfield.
you know 500 lbs bomb will suck crew thrue haches from this junk? ;)
-
I am curious if anyone here would like to see a four barelled flak vehicle.
If it were not for the fact that the flakpanzer splinter armor was not so unrealistically modeled, I would be all for this as a great way to expend GV perks.
In reality, the open-topped turret of the FP was 1/4-inch in thickness; quite easily shredded by .50 caliber gunfire. As you are no doubt aware they are not as easily put out of commission as IMHO they ought to be.
Regards,
Oddball
Cactus Air Force
-
I think AHII really does need to model more aaa trucks. Right after they model this:
(http://jollyrogers.info/CAG44/parks_9-03.jpg)
-
Ramzey states: "you know 500 lbs bomb will suck crew thrue haches from this junk?"
Prob so Ramz, it's a trade as usual. Get bombs dropped on heads, drop planes out of the sky. Oh well
From gunner: "Now what would our chances be to see this particular vehicle modeled for game play?"
It's already modeled, the Ostwind and Wirbelwind are the same except for the turret. Instead of modeling one 37mm gun, they simply model 4 barrels like the M16.
Thats funny Arlo:lol
But you keep requesting those planes you'd like to see, cuz we only got 40 to choose from:rolleyes:
-
I have never seen Arlo in the MA.
Do you play Arlo? Just mornings? Weekends?
-
You're on the ground playing bumper cars. How the hell you EVER gonna see me play? Heh. :D
-
he moslty play in the CT yea and id rather have the WIRBELWIND over the Ostwind any day
Ramzey states: "you know 500 lbs bomb will suck crew thrue haches from this junk?"
i dont think a plane could get close enough to drop a 500lber
-
Hell TK .... there's players that would rather have the patriot missle. ;)
-
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/cons/mm97/kuvat/FlakPanzerInFridge.jpg)
(http://icebreakers.compart.fi//kuvat/mm01/day3-002.jpg)
-
And Arlo, why do you even give a **** about what happens on the ground Mr Pilot ?
If your so concerned about planes and what we should & shouldn't have in the game, just go furball someplace. You won't even notice our bumper cars:lol
-
And here I thought this was a thread beggin' Pyro to waste everyone else's time modeling more aaa trucks. :D
-
Originally posted by Rino
The Canadians had a AAA tank called a skink(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/can/skink.jpg)
Skinky....
I'd like to see this one, just for more country variety....
-
I dont give a care about what happens on the ground, up until a numpty 1 ping kills me with his 37mm after continously spraying for 5 mins.
The wirbelwind would be cool, then perk the ostwind. And give me a tommygun so I can make the crews of both do that funky .45 dance.
-
I'll have a glass of Flakpanzer Grendel,thank you very much, the rest carry on. I just came in for the alcohol.
-
Originally posted by Arlo
And here I thought this was a thread beggin' Pyro to waste everyone else's time modeling more aaa trucks. :D
As opposed to you wasting his time begging for Spanish Civil
War birds Arlo? ;)
-
How about this monster? American M19 anti aircraft tank, twin 40mm Bofors on a Chafee chassis.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/images/usa/m19_02.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Rino
As opposed to you wasting his time begging for Spanish Civil
War birds Arlo? ;)
1: Norton. You know that I know that you know that I know that Pyro's not gonna model SCW planes (even if they would be one helluva blast for furballs in a game who's main focus is dogfighting ... albiet WWII - though technically ...... hehe).
2: This joker's serious about how much this game needs another flakfarter to serve the needs of the "countless number" of dedicated flakfarter players.
3: Until we reach something close to parity in the areas that really need it, I'll make fun of stuff like this on a whim.
4: If the treadheads need anything right now it's some allied mbts. Two specific ones will do the trick. :aok
-
Rino: "As opposed to you wasting his time begging for Spanish Civil
War birds Arlo?"
:lol
Hey Arlo, I don't think there's any reason to call Flak drivers names or make fun of what they enjoy doing in the game.
Espeacially since they pay for it. And secondly, you make it sound as if they modeled the Wirbelwind it would take months & months, it's already modeled.
-
Originally posted by Oddball-CAF
If it were not for the fact that the flakpanzer splinter armor was not so unrealistically modeled, I would be all for this as a great way to expend GV perks.
In reality, the open-topped turret of the FP was 1/4-inch in thickness; quite easily shredded by .50 caliber gunfire. As you are no doubt aware they are not as easily put out of commission as IMHO they ought to be.
1/4" is just over 6mm. The Ostwind turret was 25mm thick - about 1". The Wirbelwind had 16mm turret armor.
-
Originally posted by MOIL
Hey Arlo, I don't think there's any reason to call Flak drivers names or make fun of what they enjoy doing in the game.
Espeacially since they pay for it.
You're still being serious? Heh. :lol
-
2: This joker's serious about how much this game needs another flakfarter to serve the needs of the "countless number" of dedicated flakfarter players.
Arlo, who? Where?
3: Until we reach something close to parity in the areas that really need it, I'll make fun of stuff like this on a whim.
Parity? Really needed? You mean like not having 160 vs 80 vs 130 in the MA? Or some nearly forgotten Lithuanian Naval Bomber/French press machine for the CT?
"Gee, since I can't get my planes, I'll just flame everyone else's suggestions"
neener neener neener
:D
-
Of course I'm serious;)
As you can see Pyro is following the thread and even throws in some info on the vehicles {thanks Pyro}
NOT saying that he's going to run right out and add these vehicles, but we'll keep our fingers crossed.
-
give me a JU87 with the twin 37 AP pods and il agree to adding more GV's
-
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Arlo, who? Where?
Who the hell are you? Why can't you follow a thread? :D
Parity? Really needed? You mean like not having 160 vs 80 vs 130 in the MA? Or some nearly forgotten Lithuanian Naval Bomber/French press machine for the CT?
You've had enough crack, today. :lol (Hint ... the MA has all it needs ... ever. The CT/SEA doesn't. Get it? No? Didn't think so). ;)
"Gee, since I can't get my planes, I'll just flame everyone else's suggestions"
Again .... who the hell are you and why can't you keep up? :D
Pyro asked for three reasonable suggestions in three categories:
Fighter: Ki-84 (pretty good chance) Why? Because it beefs up a slightly anorexic Japanese planeset and allows for the late war USN planeset to be used more freely in the Ct and in the SEA. (And ... just for argument's sake ... it'd even be a good MA fighter. Not that the MA needs another uber fighter)
Bomber: Betty or Billy Mitchell .... some say the B-24 Why? First two help out early/midwar CT and SEA planesets. Not great for the MA? Who gives a poop. B-24? Sure ... but later. It isn't like the MA needs new bombers all that much either.
GV: Shermie or T-34 Why? Should about explain itself but here it is:
There are no allied MBTs in the game ... period. The CT and the SEA could use them. The MA may see some use of these .... but again, who gives a poop because all the lil chesspiece countries already got Tigers and Panzers .... throwing in a T-34 is just another fuggin' tank.
All that B-29, P-61, Wirbelwind, flying saucer crap is kinda like voting for Nader in the upcoming election. ;)
-
Wow looks like this thread went south in a hurry!
Gentlemen this thread was started for the so called "tread heads".
I myself like the GV option in the game. I also know the Ltars would respond because they are very good GV drivers and gunners. True the osti is already modeled and maybe adding a few more guns to the package would be great. Then our Wirlblewind would be born. All the guys who wish for certain planes have their time on the BBS. Whats wrong with us tread heads wishing for something? Not a darn thing!
See ya all in the MA.
BTW....... You Ltars are alright in my book even if you have a red icon.
-
if it must get added it must be perked
-
Originally posted by SEgunner
Whats wrong with us tread heads wishing for something? Not a darn thing!
See ya all in the MA.
Who said ya couldn't? But just like planes .... there's smart suggestions for GVs .... and not so smart ones. Why should the "less-well-thought-out" suggestions for GVs be treated any different than the "less-well-thought-out" suggestions for aircraft? That Whirbleeywind rates right up (or down) there with the P-61 .... in my opinion. Nothin' personal about it. Unless someone want's to take it that way :D
(Get outa the MA and fly ... errrr .... drive around ... in the CT!) ;)
-
Nope, Sorry gunner, you should just face the facts: only the CT needs new models, not us MA dweebs. =) j/k
It was a real vehicle, it saw real use, it would be a simpler addition, and it would actually be useful in the MA.
Some folks hate the GV aspect of the game, and some people hate the MA. I think its great fun, and will happily welcome any and all vehicles, trains, boats, subs, shopping carts, warm bodies, wooly quadrapeds (Especially wooly quadrapeds), and anything else HTC might choose to add.
One thing I will add, it would need to be bright friggin' orange so I'd know not to attack it.
Arlo, it was a nice attempt at a hijack :D , but the CT isn't paying the bills, the MA is. Gunner's right, start your own thread- not gonna argue with you here.
Cheers!
-
SEgunner the wirbelwind would rock because,
1,it would be fun to drive.
2.4x20mm mg151 dont gaurantee a 1 ping kill like, ostie,
3 numptys that fly straight at ack die anyway
its the 37mm fire(1ping kill,unless Il-2,then only 1/4 time) until you run outta ammo, that makes the ostwind suck, my mossberg 500 12 ga is hot after 32 rounds or so. over a few minutes. but the oswind fires as long as you pull the trigger without melting,or even better cooking off rounds on the stupid little loading tray.
-
"I am curious if anyone here would like to see a four barelled flak vehicle. "
"Arlo, it was a nice attempt at a hijack , but the CT isn't paying the bills, the MA is. Gunner's right, start your own thread- not gonna argue with you here."
Kind of misleading if the only players actually being "allowed" to respond are those having an orgasm thinking about it, dontcha think? Or is that the point? Anything but a "Yeah me too!" is a hijack?
Welcome to the boards. Not everything you or anyone else says or suggests will neccesarily be given everyone's complete approval. Get over it. Unless YOU wanna keep talkin' bout it. :aok
p.s. MA'll pay the bills anyway. MA is complete. Once the CT is ... it may see more playerflow. Those that like AHII with more of an historical flair and don't care for spitpizza 24/7 have been known to visit. Even truck drivers and cabbies. :D
-
Arlo im not sure what got in your head but the CT will never grow big why simple
people want to fly what they want and now not 2 months for the BOB to fly a 109
and you got the TOD around the corner which could just simple kill the CT right off
i realy do wish that the CT would get some life in it but its not going to happen now or down the road the main will allways hold the numbers like 50-1 in terms of players
complete CT still will not bring big numbers in
-
I never said "grow big." I said bring numbers in. Of course the CT wil never even have half .... or even a quarter ... the number of players in it that the MA has at any given time. That doesn't mean it's doomed to extinction yet. TOD is still a long ways off and the CT currently has the support of HTC.
Yeah ... there's the non-historical doom-types who want the bestest baddest thing in the air 24/7 and could care less what the terrain looks like as long as there's a fight one minute or less from wheels up .... and their numbers are legion. But you'd be surprised how often I've heard new blood say "Wow ... this is soooo much better than MA!" in the CT over the last six months. What loses them is CT stagnation over the gaps in the set which gets things in a rut due to less diversity.
But hey ... you're welcome to your own theory `bout that. Lawd knows there's more than a few floating about. I support the CT and I'll do whatever it takes to make it better. If you think the ideas and goals I and quite a few dedicated CTers share about the potential .... as well of the future .... of the CT are unrealistic .... well that's your row to hoe, baby. *I* think it'll bring in fresh blood. :D
But don't try to tell me the MA needs anything and is actually lacking, when it fact it doesn't matter a hill of beans there if one historical nationality has a gap in it's planeset or not. No Russian bomber in MA? Fly a German one ... or British or Yank. No Ki-84? Fly a Lala. No B-24? Fly a B-17. No Wirblewind? Use an Ostie. No T-34? Up a Tiger.
Now ... technically that was a bit of a hijack.
Back to the regular scheduled program of "pining for more aaa trucks."
-
Originally posted by Grendel
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/cons/mm97/kuvat/FlakPanzerInFridge.jpg)
(http://icebreakers.compart.fi//kuvat/mm01/day3-002.jpg)
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122159
You might wanna chime in on this thread :D
-
Originally posted by SEgunner
Wow looks like this thread went south in a hurry!
Gentlemen this thread was started for the so called "tread heads".
I myself like the GV option in the game. I also know the Ltars would respond because they are very good GV drivers and gunners. True the osti is already modeled and maybe adding a few more guns to the package would be great. Then our Wirlblewind would be born. All the guys who wish for certain planes have their time on the BBS. Whats wrong with us tread heads wishing for something? Not a darn thing!
See ya all in the MA.
BTW....... You Ltars are alright in my book even if you have a red icon.
Feel kinda bad that this simple question you had or what you'd like to see in the game had to turn into an "Arlo this & Arlo that" thread:(
I thank you for the kind comments reguarding LTAR to you.
I know we ALL have want's and wishes for planes & GV's for AH2 and I'm sure HTC takes this into consideration for the future of the game.
I just think it's a damn shame that a person can't come here to the BBS and make a request or ask for a dream plane/GV without someone like Arlo getting their panties in a bunch.
Again, sorry to see this thread go astray.
All
-
Originally posted by Pooh21
SEgunner the wirbelwind would rock because,
1,it would be fun to drive.
2.4x20mm mg151 dont gaurantee a 1 ping kill like, ostie,
3 numptys that fly straight at ack die anyway
Um, that would be true if the Wirbelwind carried four MG151/20s, but it doesn't. It was armed with four 20mm FlaK 38s, and FlaK 38s are far more lethal with a higher muzzle velocity than the Hispano Mk II.
The MG151/20 and even the excessively heavy Hispano Mk II were designed as aircraft weapons and that means that there had to be sacrifices to keep the weight down. There is much less concern with keeping the weight down when designing a ground vehicle mounted weapon.
Mauser MG151/20:
Metric calibre: 20 x 82
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/115
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 710
Muzzle energy joules: 29,000
Hispano Mk II 20mm HS404/804:
Metric calibre: 20 x 110
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/130
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 880
Muzzle energy joules: 50,300
Solothurn FlaK 30+38:
Metric calibre: 20 x 138b
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/119
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 900
Muzzle energy joules: 47,000
Gun data from : Rapid Fire, by Anthony Williams
-
I got a model of the flakvierling 38 Im gonna finish one of these years and Im sure those are 151s?:confused: the show it how to mount it on opel chassis on instructions?
-
Geez, Karnie ... you wanting to get them even MORE hot and bothered? Now there'll be a new freakin' "Gimme Wirblewind!" thread every other day! :D
-
Heh. I just posted technical specs.
Personally, I think we can do without the Wirbelwind. The Ostwind was the replacement and is more than lethal enough. Much more than enough. The one ping kills are very annoying, but at least they have more trouble hitting now.
I've been pretty noisy about the various units I do want to see so I won't blather about them here.
-
Karnak,
Thank you for finding the historic specs on the Whirblewind. That had to be every Jabo flyers worst nightmare back in the day.
Well for that matter, any flyers worst nightmare.
Arlo,
I didn't think you highjacked my thread. I'm not offended or upset at all. Free speech and the internet go hand in hand. Glad you posted your views and opinions here. To be brutally honest with you I am far better in a GV than I am in a plane. I have lots of practice to get in before I can hold my own in most furballs or 1 VS 1. Really haven't been playing this game for very long. I think I started back in March or April. Still learning and practicing alot. AH1 shut down and now I'm trying to relearn all over again in AH2. I have never competed in the CT as of yet. I would think I would fail miserably untill I can learn better tactics and have a better SA.
Moil,
Any time bro! I have had my share of Ltar kills in all of the GV's you guys use. I have also been killed by Ltars many times. You guys are a great challange and my squad gets a kick out of besting you guys when we get the upper hand. When we get killed by your squad we usually have a few choice words. Normally " Aw crap I just got killed by a fU***** LTAR!" All in fun Moil. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't play anymore. See ya in the game!
Joe
-
Originally posted by TrueKill
he moslty play in the CT yea and id rather have the WIRBELWIND over the Ostwind any day
Ramzey states: "you know 500 lbs bomb will suck crew thrue haches from this junk?"
i dont think a plane could get close enough to drop a 500lber
why you think like that?
if i can kill single aaa gun by 50 kg bomb in warbirds from 2 km alt, why i would not hit ostwind?
-
Originally posted by SEgunner
Arlo,
I didn't think you highjacked my thread. I'm not offended or upset at all. Free speech and the internet go hand in hand. Glad you posted your views and opinions here. To be brutally honest with you I am far better in a GV than I am in a plane. I have lots of practice to get in before I can hold my own in most furballs or 1 VS 1. Really haven't been playing this game for very long. I think I started back in March or April. Still learning and practicing alot. AH1 shut down and now I'm trying to relearn all over again in AH2. I have never competed in the CT as of yet. I would think I would fail miserably untill I can learn better tactics and have a better SA.
You'll get there. Alot of us are still working on it.
BTW ... I've been pushing the Shermie for over a year now. If that and a T-34 get modeled .... I'll probably get more apathetic about what GVs are modeled next. :D
-
Arlo,
Understood. I think many players would like to see the Sherman and the T-34 modeled. Maybe one day HT will model those GV's and the planes that everyone would like to have in the game and we will all get our wishes fullfilled. I'm still new to the game and the BBS so I have much to learn and to catch up up on.
Thanks for the responses and keep on posting your thoughts. I enjoy reading all of the responses.
Take care,
Joe
-
Ramzey states: "why you think like that?
if i can kill single aaa gun by 50 kg bomb in warbirds from 2 km alt, why i would not hit ostwind?"
Thats just it, you prob would and kill most of us. The reason why I've been trying to get more emphasis put on AA guns in general.
If a squad or country "really" wanted to take a base, came in with a wave of bombers, then Jabo's there is little we can do to protect our airfield/town.
The auto-ack at fields now is nothing more than eye candy or a slight nuisance to most pilots. IMO, if your coming to an enemy field {just like in WWII} be prepared for a wall of anti-aircraft fire to come up and meet you & your plane. Have you ever watched actual WWII footage of the Kamakazi's diving on our ships? Take note on how much AA fire they were met with!! And some STILL got through.
Now if you add up what "we" have to defend ourselves with and "you" the enemy have to attack with, we have little chance to stop the onslaught.
Have a great day!
-
Originally posted by Karnak
Um, that would be true if the Wirbelwind carried four MG151/20s, but it doesn't. It was armed with four 20mm FlaK 38s, and FlaK 38s are far more lethal with a higher muzzle velocity than the Hispano Mk II.
The MG151/20 and even the excessively heavy Hispano Mk II were designed as aircraft weapons and that means that there had to be sacrifices to keep the weight down. There is much less concern with keeping the weight down when designing a ground vehicle mounted weapon.
Mauser MG151/20:
Metric calibre: 20 x 82
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/115
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 710
Muzzle energy joules: 29,000
Hispano Mk II 20mm HS404/804:
Metric calibre: 20 x 110
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/130
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 880
Muzzle energy joules: 50,300
Solothurn FlaK 30+38:
Metric calibre: 20 x 138b
Projectile type/weight gm: HE/119
Muzzle velocity m/sec: 900
Muzzle energy joules: 47,000
Gun data from : Rapid Fire, by Anthony Williams
Karnak, you are correct about the guns
"Wirbelwind and Ostwind were fitted with very similar (especially designed) open-top (Wirbelwind's turret had 9 side panels and Ostwind's had 6 side panels) turrets mounted in the place of standard turrets. Ostwind's turret was nicknamed Keksdose - cookie tin. Main difference was that Wirbelwind was armed with quadruple 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 guns while Ostwind was armed with single 37mm Flak 43 L/89 gun"
Thanks for your post