Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on July 06, 2004, 12:14:10 PM
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Time to follow the lead of Dade County Florida.. These dogs are a menace. They are a gun that needs no triggerman to kill.
I was walking my dog the other day when a pit came THROUGH his fence to attack Bradley. Luckily Bradley is a big Lab, the Pit was a little on the small side, and I was there to give it about 4 good kicks to the ribs and belly. Eventually that dog was dragged by the owner by its hind legs into the back yard.
No damage was done to my dog, I had a long talk with the apologetic Pit owner who offered to pay for a vet check and any ensuing bills. Gawd I hate pit bulls!
Pits Suck! (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/06/BAG0C7H3811.DTL)
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Sorry to hear of the attack MT. Hope Bradley is OK?
I'm particularily fond of Labs...my sister and her husband had a black lab named Noiro. He died of old age but none of us have forgotten him. Now my sister and her husband have a blue-eyed husky named Shadow.:) She's another beautiful pooch too!
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Chows can be dangerous...but any dog needs training.
My nephiew has raised several dogs over the years for coon and hog hunting. One of the most memorable was a mountain cur named Gus. Gus was very aggressive around other dogs, terribly devoted to my nephiew, and totally harmless around people.
One day a neighbor's chow wandered into his yard and began barking, growling, and making dashes at my nephiew. He ran the chow off with a large stick, and returned to working on his truck.
The chow returned, even more aggressive than before. During the entire episode Gus, who was chained up, was apoplectic with fury. Finally, as the threat grew, Gus hit the end of the chain and broke it. The ensuing fight was epic...and ended with Gus killing the other dog.
My nephiew quietly disposed of the body and never told his neighbor what had happened...because the neighbor had been warned on several occasions that his chow had been threatening his neighbors.
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Im a Rottie guy myself. Wonderful dogs.
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Pits are one of the reasons I carry a pistol with me when I take walks in the neighborhood. I am not going to get into fistfight with a pitbull.
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Gus hit the end of the chain and broke it. The ensuing fight was epic...and ended with Gus killing the other dog.
Good on ya Gus:aok
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some breeds of dogs are naturally more agressive than others. large agressive dogs are about the most dangerous thing I can think of in most neighborhoods.
I agree that you should be able to shoot any attacking dog. The owner of the dog should be charged with assault with intent to commit grave bodily harm.
lazs
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Shoot the dog and then shoot the owner.
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I don't think all Pits are bad. My youngest sister has a pitbull that she got from a rescue shelter in Michigan. The dog was very well trained (all commands in German).
The dog itself is a big pushover. The first threatening move you make, she immediately submits and rolls over onto her back. Dumb as a box of bricks tho.
Maybe this is the exception not the rule. She plays great with my lab, a little mouthy sometime, but nothing my lab doesn't dish right back :D
I think owning a dog like this require additional responsibility with training/handling and keeping. If the person isn't up to that challenge, then they shouldn't have a pit.
It all boils down to the owner, not the dog IMO
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Pits were bred specifically for fighting. They aren't "naturally" more agressive...it has been purposley bred into them.
The breed should be outlawed and gradually left to die off once the existing animals alive now die.
Modas...take that dog to a park where it can interact with unfamiliar dogs and you will notice a change in its behavior.
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so modas... you don't believe that some dogs are more agressive and dangerous than others?
I believe that most owners of pits or rots or dobermans get the dog simply because it is dangerous and aggressive.
They want control over something powerful and dangerous but that is not possible with flesh and blood. Highly trained police dogs are still very dangerous... they will not obey once excited and they need to be locked up or watched constantly.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
so modas... you don't believe that some dogs are more agressive and dangerous than others?
_____________________________ ___________________
Nope, never said that. I said my sisters dog does not exhibit any of these aggressive characteristics and in at least HER case, this pit is a very gentle dog.
Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that most owners of pits or rots or dobermans get the dog simply because it is dangerous and aggressive.
That herein lies the problem. The OWNERS get the dog because of the reputation it has NOT because of the love of the breed. It boils down to the responsibility of the owner to train, handle and ultimately control the dog. If the owner cannot or is unwilling to invest the time in the dog (and a LOT of time is required) the dog will ultimately get out of control and will end up hurting someone.
My sister trains with her Pit EVERY day (or nearly so) using the commands that the rescue shelter trained the dog with. And as a result, she has a dog that is very well under control.
With owning a dog like this comes enormous responsibility, and unfortunately most owners don't take this seriously. And those that don't, if their dog does hurt someone, they need to have the book thrown at them, and unfortunately, the dog will need to be destroyed because at that point it will be to far gone to be "fixed"
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I say I think Pit bulls get more play over attacks then any other breed of dog. It's not always the breed It's the owner's. Pit's being on the reciveing end of being a attack dog. Not all pit's are bad.
Just look here you will be surprised at some duities their good at.. http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/ARTICLES.HOME.html
Not that I own one.. I've owned and been raised with Boxers and Collies.. I've actually seen/owned a very agressive Collie that would make a Pitt Bull look like a cat. She ended up being stuck down by a car before I could bear to put her to sleep.... But, I've never seen a Collie like that one ever. Her sister on the other hand is very timid and well laid back.
Then on the Boxer's thats a breed that get's a bad rep as well...the 2 that we've had in the past have been great pets.
It's only a select few of abnormal animals that post the threat.
Just my 2 cents..
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Pit Bulls may be vicious and evil, but New Yorkies are cute and fund!
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In Alaska dogs are everywhere and loose. Put your trash out 2 hours before the truck come and dogs will tear it up and spread it about. Every year it seemed a pit bull would attack a child, it really made me sick. I contemplated sniping every pit I saw. Owners are almost always A-holes who think that owning a pit makes them Rambo.
eskimo
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My guide dog was killed when we were attacked by a pack of Yorkies.
Afterwards, I walked into traffic and was hit by a bus.
Damn Yorkies are a menace.
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Originally posted by Curval
Pits were bred specifically for fighting. They aren't "naturally" more agressive...it has been purposley bred into them.
The breed should be outlawed and gradually left to die off once the existing animals alive now die.
Modas...take that dog to a park where it can interact with unfamiliar dogs and you will notice a change in its behavior.
Yeah and the same should apply to the idiots of this world who post things on the BB that is ignorant and usless to anyone who wants to have a decent conversation.
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lol...I suggest you go back and read the past threads on this topic before you accuse me of being ignorant.
I'm not typing my own personal experiences out all over again. Do a search and then come back and we can talk.
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I am 100 times more worried that my little grand daughter will be hurt by a dog than by a firearm.
lazs
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move to israel.
after a pitbull attacked a child last week, all attack dogs are now ilegal.
ofcourse there are other things to worry about :)
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Originally posted by Yeager
Pits are one of the reasons I carry a pistol with me when I take walks in the neighborhood. I am not going to get into fistfight with a pitbull.
I carry a police baton with me if I walk my dog for the same reason. But after reading Midnight's story, I may stop wearing beach shoes on my walks and go with sneakers. No sense in tearing up my toes while kicking a dog away.
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I'm a Rottie guy as well. Cant stand pits. I do admire their physical structure/ muscle tone, but something in the head that controls it all is just not right. Waste of a good dog.
I plan on owning Rotts for the rest of my life.
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Originally posted by Modas
That herein lies the problem. The OWNERS get the dog because of the reputation it has NOT because of the love of the breed. It boils down to the responsibility of the owner to train, handle and ultimately control the dog. If the owner cannot or is unwilling to invest the time in the dog (and a LOT of time is required) the dog will ultimately get out of control and will end up hurting someone.
My sister trains with her Pit EVERY day (or nearly so) using the commands that the rescue shelter trained the dog with. And as a result, she has a dog that is very well under control.
With owning a dog like this comes enormous responsibility, and unfortunately most owners don't take this seriously. And those that don't, if their dog does hurt someone, they need to have the book thrown at them, and unfortunately, the dog will need to be destroyed because at that point it will be to far gone to be "fixed"
I think the risk probably far outweighs the benefit.
According to a study by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, covering the years between 1979 and 1994, pit bulls were involved in 57 fatal attacks -- well over twice the number for the next breed on the list...
If they won't legislate the breed into extinction, maybe the next best thing is to require another level of licensing (complete with additional training and mandatory liability insurance) before a pitbull can be owned.
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Originally posted by Curval
Pits were bred specifically for fighting. They aren't "naturally" more agressive...it has been purposley bred into them.
The breed should be outlawed and gradually left to die off once the existing animals alive now die.
Modas...take that dog to a park where it can interact with unfamiliar dogs and you will notice a change in its behavior.
She has. 90% of the time the Pit stays right next to her, and the other 10% of the time if she gets a silly spell will wrestle with my sisters other dog (mutt). Other than that, her Pit ignores everyone else's dog.
Sandman -
You are correct, there are risks associated with owning a pitbull. But it boils down to owner responsibility.
You quote 57 fatalities from pitbulls. How many children died from owners not properly locking up their firearms? How many people are killed every year from people using guns?
Notice I said from PEOPLE using guns, not from guns themselves.
I'm not anti-gun btw as I own several myself.
However, with everything comes a certain level of responsibilty. If you aren't up to the challenge handling Pits/guns or whatever, you've got no business having them in the first place.
Originally posted by Sandman
If they won't legislate the breed into extinction, maybe the next best thing is to require another level of licensing (complete with additional training and mandatory liability insurance) before a pitbull can be owned.
I've got NO problem with that whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Modas
You quote 57 fatalities from pitbulls. How many children died from owners not properly locking up their firearms? How many people are killed every year from people using guns?
Maybe if there was a Constitutionally protected right to own a pitbull, we could compare the two. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Maybe if there was a Constitutionally protected right to own a pitbull, we could compare the two. ;)
Agreed. However, I was simply using my can of worms to illustrate a point.
Its not the gun that kills the person, it is the irresponsibility of its owner (in the case of accidental fatalities with children).
Same thing with Pits.
I'm curious... Are there any documented cases where the Pitbull turned on its owner? I tried searching earlier, but haven't found anything yet.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Pits are one of the reasons I carry a pistol with me when I take walks in the neighborhood. I am not going to get into fistfight with a pitbull.
You would do well to continue that precaution. When my eldest daughter was a toddler I was taking her to the tot lot across the street from our home to play with her friends. A neighbor's pit was loose and from across the street he ran straight for my daughter. I lept into action like superman as she was a few paces in front of me. I tackled the pit in stride about a meter before he could pounce on my daughter. He managed to bite into my forearm and was starting to shake me so I lifted him into the air. As I got him about at my eye level a neighbor came to my rescue with a .22, he fired of one to the animals head at point blank and it was all over but the twitching and flopping. I never walk without a pistol any more.
Pits are dangerous indeed.
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Still not a good comparison. As much as I'm not on the same side of the gun control argument as Lazs, I must admit that guns don't just change behavior and hurt/maim/kill someone. They do one thing... discharge, either by intention or accident.
If I walk past Lazs house, I'm fairly certain that his gun won't leap out of the closet and shoot me for no apparent reason. A gun is completely predictable. A dog, any dog is not.
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Easter Sunday 1994 I was at my roommates grand parents house for dinner. Some of you may remember my roommate from back then he was "dies" in WB. Anyway his grandad was about 75 at the time and they had this cute little french poodle. The puppy was about a year old. We left their house and went home.
The next morning the phone rings and it's his grandmother and she's irate and freaking out on the phone. His grandad had let the poodle out in the back yard to do her business at about 5 am. immediately he heard a ruckus and went outside. There were 2 pit bulls in his back yard and they had his poodle. He started beating them off of the dog and one of the pits latched onto his arm. At this point the other pit started attacking him too and the only thing he could do to save HIS life was to let them have the poodle. They ripped that poor little poodle into 3 peices before he got back out there with his gun. Unfortunately he missed when he shot at the dogs but it scared them away.
Turned out they had eaten their way through 2 wood fences to get to that dog. The owner did the right thing and had his 2 pits put down, saved his bellybutton from a big lawsuit! I'm with Curval, that whole bread of dog needs to go away.
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Sandman is right, so why pick on pitbulls? My answer is stated above. This breed was "invented" to fight. Pure and simple.
About ten days ago my sister's husband's brother (um...yea, got that right. Does that make him my brother-in-law? Don't think so, but could be wrong) came across a German Shepard strolling around the neighborhood with a leach dragging along the ground. He knew who the owner was, but didn't know the guy personally and had never been to his house before. Anyway, my sister's...ummm....my brother-in-law decides to take the dog home. He walks it up onto the owner's porch and knocks on the door and the dog attacked him. Really badly. He is all cut up and stiched, on his arms, his legs and on his back.
Crazy story, but it shows that Shepards are bred with a guard instinct and serve that purpose incredibly well. Too well, in fact. I've ALWAYS owned Shepards or Shepard mixes in the past. Now, with 3 little kids I'm not going to risk one of their friends getting mauled because the dog perceived a threat. It can happen with Shepard...love them, my last one died after 12 years of being my best friend, but can't own one now.
Pits have been bred to fight. I've known lots of them and a couple of good friends own one now. They can be great pets and very loyal and obediant. But they can snap for no reason and lord help the animal or human that is on the receiving end of a pitbull attack. As Udie's story highlights, when there is more than one involved in an attack something's gonna die.
I don't advocate a nazi approach at all. Let the existing pitbulls live out their lives. Just don't breed them anymore. What is the point? They were bred for a ridiculous purpose that is now univserally condemned.
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That article brings up a fascinating point about dog's instincts. I agree with the author that the standard argument of "no bad dogs, just bad owners" is BS. All purebred dogs have a purpose for their life bred into them. I have two rough collies and a border collie. I've had my youngest collie since he was 8 weeks old. He's never been around livestock of any kind. Yet when I dropped him into a pen of ducks what did he do? Ran around like a wild man until they were all in a neat circle. His training and life experience went out the window and his instinct took over. Same with pit bulls, expect the ducks would've been little bloody lumps in the ground. :)
I'm as pro-dog as anyone can get. I'm really active in the dog community around Nashville and work agility with my three. However, you can add me to the list of people that want pit bulls gone. I hate it for the dogs, they didn't do anything but perform the task they were bred for. But for the good of all dog kind something has to be done.
I want to add a side note about Rotties. Rotties were originally bred for pulling carts in Germany and even served as herding dogs for large livestock. It's only in recent history that they've been used for guard duty. Their muscular build and size, coupled with irresponsible training and breeding, has earned them the reputation of being the next pit bull. Anyone looking for a Rottie would be wise to seek out a reputable breeder that knows the dog's history and breeds to that standard.
Cougar
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Shoot the dog and then shoot the owner.
'nuff said.
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Its not the pitbulls per say, its the owner and the type of person 90% of pitbull owners are, criminal scum.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
Its not the pitbulls per say, its the owner and the type of person 90% of pitbull owners are, criminal scum.
I agree with you to a point Pooh. A well bred pit bull can still just go off at any point. The big problem has come with these criminal scum as you say not just owning, but breeding the dogs. The gene pool is completely screwed so now you have dogs that will not only kill, but are mentally unstable as well.
The same thing happened with Collies in the 80's. Their popularity had peaked and back yard breeders were turning out inbred litter after inbred litter. Collies were getting aggressive and unstable and stayed that way until responsible breeding kicked in and the bad ones started to die off.
Cougar
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Are Pitbulls a natural breed or the result of some experiment in breeding?
I dunno myself, but I would guess the latter.
A mutant spaz mutt experiment gone awry. Mange! Admit the mistake, kill the butterers and move on.
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Originally posted by Curval
lol...I suggest you go back and read the past threads on this topic before you accuse me of being ignorant.
I'm not typing my own personal experiences out all over again. Do a search and then come back and we can talk.
What can I do to be as cool as you...........
P.S.-Your still ignorant, just think about it, it will come to you.
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I have no problem with the dogs, I have a gun afterall. It's their irresponsible owners that inflict them upon a polite society in an environment presumed to be safe that I take issue with. Dogs are an extension of a person and that person should be held accountable as if it were their own hand conducting an attack.
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I've yet to see a mean Rottie. I've owned one ( passed away 2 years ago) Anyone have a male rottie for sale?
I was moving out of my old house into a new home in the burbs. OLD HOME: new neighbor moves in directly across the street w/ 2 HUGE Rottie's mean as could be, leaves them outside 8' fenced encloseur. Barks at anything that moves, took me 3 days and they where eating outta my hand.
New house: neighbors directly behind me have a rottie. My 4' fence separates my family from the dog, another mean SOB ( NOT fat drunk bastages) LOL, only took me 3 hours to "tame" him.
My Rottie was mixed with mastiff and weight just over 200LBS. Was the best dog I ever had. He would lay next to me at work by the store counter. Everybody loved my dog, one customer took him everyweekend to the jersey shore ( fugger never asked me to go). ANd took him occasionally to " collect" old debts.
So getting back to the point I never met a bad rottweiller.
YUP, thats the breed for me, I'm truely heartbroken and now i have a beautiful big fenced yard, I am looking for another male rottie.
BTW, I adopted him when he was 4 Never had a rottie before. So, In flies this Rottie from Michigan, My store manager wanted him ( I had 2 dobberman pups at the time) well I get this 3 AM phone call the rottie busted thru the bedroom door and he ran out of the apartment, the tranquilizers wore off and he had no idea where he was, just wanted OUT. I took the dog home that night traded him the 2 Dobbermans and never looked back. I had to put him down at 12 years old he just couldn't walk no more.
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by Nash
Are Pitbulls a natural breed or the result of some experiment in breeding?
Natural breed? IIRC, all domestic dogs descended from wolves.
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after a pitbull attacked a child last week, all attack dogs are now ilegal.
How do you define "attack dog"?
I've yet to see a mean Rottie. I've owned one ( passed away 2 years ago)
I lost mine 2 years ago this month. Ive never known a better dog than he was. I still havent been able to get another dog after losing him. When I do it will be a Rott. I cant say enough about how great these dogs are. But alot of dogs tend to be great.
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Cats are better.
(runs)
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I always viewed buying and owning a Pit Bull as a way some people try to compensate for their feelings of inferiority.
Male Pit Bull Owner = Small noodle.
Something along those lines.
Trying to buy some tough guy self esteem with a dog is pretty sad.
Of course, I see Harley Davidsons as a pretty similar thing. :D
dago
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Originally posted by majic
Cats are better.
(runs)
yes they are because one does not become attached to them. when one of my cats die I weight the carcass down and toss it in the lake. It keeps the fish around and makes for good fishing.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Yeah and the same should apply to the idiots of this world who post things on the BB that is ignorant and usless to anyone who wants to have a decent conversation.
:D this has to be the best reply in this whole thread. When did Curval pee in your cherios?
then followed by
Originally posted by RTStuka
What can I do to be as cool as you...........
P.S.-Your still ignorant, just think about it, it will come to you.
You could NEVAR hope to be 1/15 as cool as Curval.
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and the level of licensing should include whether the person has been or is part of a gang, has been convicted of criminal behavior etc etc...
any instances of a pitbull running free should be followed by it immediately being put down and the owner fined heavily. (this goes for any large or potentially dangerous animal)
I have nothing against pitbulls, I don't think they are especially mean, I think they have the gear to do severe damage to people or other animals and
I'm certain that a majority of their owners are training them to attack or be aggressive in some way.
unfortunately people don't usually get pit bulls just because they look neat.
They could outlaw them entirely and let the breed die off, not a big deal there are plenty of breeds to choose from.
Then the second highest fatality causing breed will come into focus...as they are trained by criminals to attack.
Originally posted by Sandman
require another level of licensing (complete with additional training and mandatory liability insurance) before a pitbull can be owned.
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Originally posted by majic
Cats are better.
(runs)
for wheel chocks.
Karaya
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It's instinct. Pitbulls kill by nature. It could be two kids fighting, a domestic dispute, or another dog, once that instinct is set into motion, there is no turning back. It's not their fault, they are made that way. They are a wonder of an animal, but I do not think they make good domestic pets.
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I think it is 10% the breed, and 90% the ultra melons that own them.
It is always the same badboy, fearthis, tough guy ******* with a pit. They need a tuff dog to fit the tuff guy image.
The dog of the wife beater.
I am with Funked, shoot the owner then the dog. or vice versa.
Labs are the bestest breed ever!!
Mine is doing much MUCH better and I did not do the surgery.
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Oh and if you are a guy, not from europe and willingly(IE your GF didnt force you) own a cat. You may want to think about coming out of the closet. :D :D :aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Oh and if you are a guy, not from europe and willingly(IE your GF didnt force you) own a cat. You may want to think about coming out of the closet. :D :D :aok :aok :aok
Dood... owning a cat doesn't make you gay anymore than owning a pitbull makes you a stud. ;)
FWIW, I'm not a "cat person".
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You have to admit, if it does not make you one it is a damn good indicator though!:D
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
You have to admit, if it does not make you one it is a damn good indicator though!:D
Not true.
Owning a cat does not indicate that you prefer sexual relations with your own gender.
It is just an indication that you get NO sex whatsover.
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I've had two dobermans, one was a sweetheart, the other pretty frightening. According to the humane society, 8 out of 10 biting dogs are male.
Here's an interesting link:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite
Funny story. My office (used to) faced the street and I usually work late at night. One night, my dobie crawled out from under my desk with the hair on her back standing straight up. She walked stiff legged to the entry way and I followed her thinking, "wtf?" She stood maybe 3 feet from the door, just watching.
Unknown to me, the front door was unlocked (or the guy manipulated the lock.) As we stood there, the doorknob turned and the door gently opened. When the door was about 1/3 open, she jumped through the door! There was a scream, lots of noise and I grabbed her by the hindquarters.
I'm sure the guy filled his britches up from the event. Had it not been for old Samantha, something bad would have probably happened.
curly
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I get chassed by dogs on a Daily basics. Been chased by them all pits,boxers,labs,german shepards,huskys. Here is some tips when getting a viscous dog runs out at you. You have less than 5secs to react.Never just stay there and freeze I have seen somebody do that it didnt work out to good.:eek: What I try to do is look for a busy street our car. Anything that is out of range for dogs. But everytime I gotten chased There was more than one people with me. I cant belive I havent been bitten before. Around my neighbors just let there dogs loose. Not to many of the dogs mess with me no more after they got a coupple bb gun holes in them.;) hey its either you our them and I sure am not going to let them get me.
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Crossbreed pit bulls for three generations with calmer breeds and the problem would solve itself.
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shukins... you miss the point... the retards that want pit bulls don't want people to be afraid of em.. if it was known that they were good dogs the people who own em.... wouldn't.
lazs
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I've been deer hunting where we walked through someone's yard carrying shotguns. Can't remember much, that was in 1985 or 1986. There were dogs there and the people living in the house were scared.
I was thinking, damn, I thought we were deer hunting. I didn't like doing that, but I did and stood on my stand for about an hour, when they came back and picked us up.
The pickup truck carried about ten hunters in the back, and everyone got off!!!
Tha locals called it the chicken man's house. This was in rural woods, and probably a dangerous place. But that is all I know about it. I didn't like being in that predicament at all.
Les
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Banning specific dog breeds is a bad idea. It is difficult to enforce, inherently unfair, and doesn’t solve the problem of dog bites.
It’s hard to enforce because it’s difficult or to prove a particular dog is a specific breed. How many people here know the difference between a Pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier and Staffordshire bull terrier? What about pit bull crosses? 50% pit bull? 10% pit bull? What happens when the animal control officer says your Bull Terrier is a pit bull, confiscates and kills him?
It’s unfair because it punishes responsible owners of pit bulls, while not addressing irresponsible owners of other breeds.
It’s ineffective because if a specific breed is banned, these irresponsible owners will switch to a different breed, like rottweilers. Of course you could ban rottweilers …and they switch to some other breed, etc. There have been over 25 breeds involved in dog bite fatalities.
Much better are non-breed-specific, dangerous-dog laws with an emphasis on chronically irresponsible owners. Also consistent enforcement of animal control ordinances such as leash laws and fencing requirements, prohibition of dog fighting, and neutering.
The focus should be on reducing dangerous behavior of dogs and dog owners, regardless of the dog's breed, instead of on banning specific breeds.
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Well according to this site.. Doggie Info (http://www.workingpitbull.com/amstaffpit.htm) the Pit Bull and the Staffordshire Terrier are one in the same. The latter name just an affectation made up to make Pits more palatable for the show ring.
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Originally posted by jetb123
I get chassed by dogs on a Daily basics. Been chased by them all pits,boxers,labs,german shepards,huskys. Here is some tips when getting a viscous dog runs out at you. You have less than 5secs to react.Never just stay there and freeze I have seen somebody do that it didnt work out to good.:eek: What I try to do is look for a busy street our car. Anything that is out of range for dogs. But everytime I gotten chased There was more than one people with me. I cant belive I havent been bitten before. Around my neighbors just let there dogs loose. Not to many of the dogs mess with me no more after they got a coupple bb gun holes in them.;) hey its either you our them and I sure am not going to let them get me.
"pits,boxers,labs,german shepards,huskys"
If any of these dogs are within 25 yards of you and you have no immediate place of shelter, they will have you. Standing or running, they will get you ... without a doubt. I have seen people run and the outcome is the same as standing still. Running seems to piss them off even more as far as I am concerned.
"What I try to do is look for a busy street our car. Anything that is out of range for dogs. But everytime I gotten chased There was more than one people with me."
Still trying to understand this, and how it is a "tip" as to what to do when attacked/chased by a dog.
Unless you shoot the dog, or can get to the other side of a tall fence, the other side of a door (house or car), or up a tree, the dog will own you.
Shoot a dog with a BB gun and he will fear the BB gun, not you. So unless you walk around with the BB gun at all times, I fail to believe that these dogs now fear "just" you.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well according to this site.. Doggie Info (http://www.workingpitbull.com/amstaffpit.htm) the Pit Bull and the Staffordshire Terrier are one in the same.
Actually, if you carefully read the link, they explain that they are the same "type" not the same "breed".
But this type of confusion is exactly my point. Breed, like race, is not always a distinct feature of a species. That's why "breed"-specific legislation is ridiculous.
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yep... I don't understand him either. If I don't have a weapon I look for one. Stand your ground.. try to get your thumbs into his eyes. shooting is still the best tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... I don't understand him either. If I don't have a weapon I look for one. Stand your ground.. try to get your thumbs into his eyes. shooting is still the best tho.
lazs
No argument here. Think about how you're going to kill the dog not just defend against it.
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Originally posted by myelo
Actually, if you carefully read the link, they explain that they are the same "type" not the same "breed".
But this type of confusion is exactly my point. Breed, like race, is not always a distinct feature of a species. That's why "breed"-specific legislation is ridiculous.
I would cut and paste, but the link is copyright protected.. the basteges!
Basically it says this:
"a physical standard was drawn up for the Pit Bull. The name Pit Bull was a problem for these dog show folks - they felt it would scare people off. They tried several names including Yankee Terrier (a silly name for a bulldog from the UK!) and finally settled on Staffordshire Terrier."
Further down: "To add to the confusion the name Staffordshire Terrier was changed to American Stafordshire Terrier in the 1970's when the AKC decided that the Pit Bulls in England had enough variation to warrant being called a different breed. The UK dogs were now called Staffordshire Bull Terriers."
So basically a Pit is a Pit... they need to be deleted from the gene pool.
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Heh. Thank God Chihouhas (you know what I mean) aren't very big, or we'd all be in trouble. (damned ankle nippers)
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Originally posted by slimm50
Heh. Thank God Chihouhas (you know what I mean) aren't very big, or we'd all be in trouble. (damned ankle nippers)
No kidding. As stupid as they are, they'd be quite dangerous. ;)
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If chihowas, or what ever those little mexi dogs are called were bigger, they would work for what the were bred for. Food.
Yum.. I love mexican..
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I would cut and paste, but the link is copyright protected.. the basteges!
Basically it says this:
"a physical standard was drawn up for the Pit Bull. The name Pit Bull was a problem for these dog show folks - they felt it would scare people off. They tried several names including Yankee Terrier (a silly name for a bulldog from the UK!) and finally settled on Staffordshire Terrier."
Further down: "To add to the confusion the name Staffordshire Terrier was changed to American Stafordshire Terrier in the 1970's when the AKC decided that the Pit Bulls in England had enough variation to warrant being called a different breed. The UK dogs were now called Staffordshire Bull Terriers."
So basically a Pit is a Pit... they need to be deleted from the gene pool.
Well, I'm no dog expert, but the English pit bulls I've seen all look exactly like the pit bull in the movie "Patton." The American pit bull has a differently shaped muzzle and appears to be a larger dog than the English pit bull.
curly
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Poodles killers too.
(http://ohdog.org/pics/030501104.jpg)
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Well, I'm no dog expert, but the English pit bulls I've seen all look exactly like the pit bull in the movie "Patton."
The "pit bull" in the movie was a bull terrier, not a pit bull.
See what I'm talking about MT?
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Originally posted by myelo
The "pit bull" in the movie was a bull terrier, not a pit bull.
See what I'm talking about MT?
Thx, Myelo, I hadn't realized that!
curly
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Originally posted by jetb123
I get chassed by dogs on a Daily basics. Been chased by them all pits,boxers,labs,german shepards,huskys. Here is some tips when getting a viscous dog runs out at you. You have less than 5secs to react.Never just stay there and freeze I have seen somebody do that it didnt work out to good.:eek: What I try to do is look for a busy street our car. Anything that is out of range for dogs. But everytime I gotten chased There was more than one people with me. I cant belive I havent been bitten before. Around my neighbors just let there dogs loose. Not to many of the dogs mess with me no more after they got a coupple bb gun holes in them.;) hey its either you our them and I sure am not going to let them get me.
Are you a cat??? You sure SOUND like a cat.
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Originally posted by myelo
The "pit bull" in the movie was a bull terrier, not a pit bull.
See what I'm talking about MT?
Even though you and I agree philosophically on many things...I just gotta say.
I'm right and you are wrong. Nanner Nanner!
I can't help it if Curly didn't pay attention in doggie breed class.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Even though you and I agree philosophically on many things...I just gotta say.
I'm right and you are wrong. Nanner Nanner!
Dangit! Whupped again...I KNEW I should have played the Nanner Nanner card first.
You're welcome Curly. Bonus question: What was Patton's dog's name?
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Originally posted by myelo
Dangit! Whupped again...I KNEW I should have played the Nanner Nanner card first.
You're welcome Curly. Bonus question: What was Patton's dog's name?
Dang if I can remember and I have the movie too. I do remember him cowering when a small dog (terrier) barked at him.
Man, what a wonderful flick. Right up there with "Battle of Britain", Michael Caine version.
curly
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I would cut and paste, but the link is copyright protected.. the basteges!
Basically it says this:
"a physical standard was drawn up for the Pit Bull. The name Pit Bull was a problem for these dog show folks - they felt it would scare people off. They tried several names including Yankee Terrier (a silly name for a bulldog from the UK!) and finally settled on Staffordshire Terrier."
Further down: "To add to the confusion the name Staffordshire Terrier was changed to American Stafordshire Terrier in the 1970's when the AKC decided that the Pit Bulls in England had enough variation to warrant being called a different breed. The UK dogs were now called Staffordshire Bull Terriers."
So basically a Pit is a Pit... they need to be deleted from the gene pool.
No, a purebreed Pitbull is bred from fighting stock for game and fighting ability. What it looked like was irrelevant, while the American Staff is the complete opposite and is exclusively bred from show stock to look pretty with a good hock, colour etc...
The AKC never reconized Pits because for one, they were stuck up, and two, because of the fighting aspect; but the ADBA always did reconize Pits. Basically they're the same Dog. The only way to tell them apart is by the ADBA papers and family tree.
These Pits you see today, barrel chested with big heads, wouldn't last more than a few minutes in a match. Some of the best known Pits Evar had small heads and were slim and sleek with deep V chest.
Originally Staffordshire Terriers were brought from Ireland and England, then bred out to hunt for wild boars in the southern states. That's how Pitbulls eventually came about.
They are bred from pure fighting stock or were, hence there aren't many, if any, purebred Pits around today. It's all scattered bred, no papers, my noodle is small but my Dog can hang from a car tire for a good hour or so.
John Colbly must be turning in his grave.
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When I was in law school I interned for the SF DA's office. I got to work on the dog case where the two Presa Canarios ate the lacrosse teacher. Along with getting to work with a hot DA (look up Kimberly Guilfoyle, she's on CourtTV now) and I had to learn a little about dogs. One of the reasons they want mean pits is becuase meth cooks use them to protect their labs. They figure that the dog will slow you down.
In fact, the AB's were trying to breed the Presa's to sell to the Mexican Mafia as an improvement over the pits. And trust me, there isn't a better killing-dog in the business than one of these things.
PS, I've owned two pits and thought they were great dogs. But I figure I got lucky.
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Dogs dont kill people, its the dogs owner that kills people...
Or something like that
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Patton's bull terrier was Willie, short for William the Conqueror.
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no... left to themselves.. dogs will kill people.
lazs
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No owner has total control over their dog....Some of these attacks probrably are more the owner's fault..But breeds like the Rottie, Pit Bull, Doberman, and Chow were bread purely to be aggressive attack/fighting dogs. This is something that is instictive not trained anymore. With the exception of the Rots these breeds are known to turn on their owners and owners families (The chow especially). The need for this kind of dog for "home protection" does not exist. Any kind of large dog's bark will usually scare off an intruder, and in todays world where the criminal has more rights than the victim you'd probrably stand a chance of being sued and losing if your dog really tears an intruder up. Let these breeds die out I say. They are a menace and should be considered a deadly weapon.
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Originally posted by myelo
It’s unfair because it punishes responsible owners of pit bulls, while not addressing irresponsible owners of other breeds.
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I don't think I've ever met a responsible Pit Bull owner. Most of these people get the things because they are fashionable. Hell they aren't even a good looking dog. One of the butt-ugliest things I've ever seen.
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I do not advocate making these dogs illegal but..
Any dog attack should be treated like assault or..if it happens .. murder. Almost any dog attack should involve jail time for the owner. even if the dog is provolked... if you use current practice... the breeder should be sued. If the dog is not locked up so that he can't be gotten to by children then the owner is liable.
lazs
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Originally posted by Torque
No, a purebreed Pitbull is bred from fighting stock for game and fighting ability. What it looked like was irrelevant, while the American Staff is the complete opposite and is exclusively bred from show stock to look pretty with a good hock, colour etc...
The AKC never reconized Pits because for one, they were stuck up, and two, because of the fighting aspect; but the ADBA always did reconize Pits. Basically they're the same Dog. The only way to tell them apart is by the ADBA papers and family tree.
These Pits you see today, barrel chested with big heads, wouldn't last more than a few minutes in a match. Some of the best known Pits Evar had small heads and were slim and sleek with deep V chest.
Originally Staffordshire Terriers were brought from Ireland and England, then bred out to hunt for wild boars in the southern states. That's how Pitbulls eventually came about.
They are bred from pure fighting stock or were, hence there aren't many, if any, purebred Pits around today. It's all scattered bred, no papers, my noodle is small but my Dog can hang from a car tire for a good hour or so.
John Colbly must be turning in his grave.
Go read the link Torque
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Go read the link Torque
Read the Book, i had a Colby Dog twenty years ago.
(http://www.colbypitbull.com/book2.gif)
I'm not making any excuses for the behaviour of these scatter bred mutant BullPits of today thx to CNN, the bloodline is gone and as far as i'm concerned the name should be changed.
That's all i'm pointing out, the original Pits are nothing like the ones of today.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
I don't think I've ever met a responsible Pit Bull owner.
I've met about 500, although I'll concede I see a biased population.
Maybe you need new friends. :)
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Originally posted by Coolridr
..But breeds like the Rottie, Pit Bull, Doberman, and Chow were bread purely to be aggressive attack/fighting dogs.
Please do not spread this ignorance around. The Rottweiler cannot be lumped in with dogs that are bread for fighting. As I said earlier in the thread they were originally bred to pull carts in Germany. It's only in recent history that they've come to prominence as guard dogs and it's all due to their size, not their temperament.
A Rottweiler, like just about any other dog, can be protective of its family. However, their instinct comes out in a totally different manner than an attack dog. A Rottie is a passive dog. I had one when my son was first born and the two of them bonded instantly. If any new people came around the house she stood up and sat between them and my son. If they made a move to get close to him, she would look over at me as if to ask "is it ok?" and then go about ignoring them. They're fantastic dogs that have gotten a bad rap lately due to irresponsible breeding and training.
Cougar
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Wasn't Petie from the Little Rascals a pit? If so, that dog saved those kids butts many a time. Prime example of a good pit.
On a more serious note, pits can be dangerous, and I for one don't think the owner can control that breed as much as they think. I do not advocate elimination of the breed, but I certainly do think they can be dangerous.
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Originally posted by Goth
Wasn't Petie from the Little Rascals a pit? If so, that dog saved those kids butts many a time. Prime example of a good pit.
IIRC, that was a bull terrier. Different breed.
http://www.thebullterrier.com/bthistory.shtml
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To be honest, from the pictures I remember of Petie, I really think it is a pit.....but I'm certainly not a breed expert at all.
If I remember correctly, bull terriers are smaller than pits with a smaller hind leg set.
Need a judges ruling on this, maybe I will search some web pics from doggie shows.
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Originally posted by Goth
To be honest, from the pictures I remember of Petie, I really think it is a pit.....but I'm certainly not a breed expert at all.
After further review (and a quick Google), I believe I was incorrect. According to this (http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amerpit.html), Petey was an American Pit Bull Terrier.
(http://www.pitbull.at/postcard/image/petey.jpg)
Doesn't look like a bull terrier at all. I'm probably confusing it with the bull terrier that was on "Baa Baa Blacksheep". His name was "Meatball".
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Yeah...the poochie on Baa Baa looked like the same doggie from Patton.
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I've seen pitbulls that were nothing but big babies and as friendly as could be towards other people and other dogs. I've also seen the very aggressive ones, those scare me. As with any dog it really depends on the dogs upbringing and training. Any breed of dog can be aggressive. ( I know, some breeds are more inclined to be aggressive than others).
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Originally posted by NUTTZ
I've yet to see a mean Rottie. I've owned one ( passed away 2 years ago) Anyone have a male rottie for sale?
NUTTZ
I remember playing soccer with some friends when I was young (8 years or so) when the ball went across the alleyway into the threat range of a tied up Rottwieler. I went to go get the ball which was opposite of the post and a good 10 feet from the dog (who appeared to be asleep). As soon as I leaned down to get the ball, the dog lunged at me. I pulled away just in time for him to tear off the shoulder fabric from my T-Shirt, but otherwise I was just fine.
I've met a lot of good Rotties, but a lot of dogs can be ruined given the 'proper' treatment.
Personally, I plan to have a German Shepard as soon as I can afford a yard for him/her to tear up. As soon as I have it, I plan on devoting at LEAST 30 mins a day just to training. The actions of any dog are ALWAYS the direct responsibility of the owner. Always.
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Originally posted by Preon1
... a tied up Rottwieler.
Statistically, chained dogs are 3 times as likley to bite as unchained dogs.
Also, males are 6 times as likely to bite as females. And un-neutered dogs are 3 times as liley to bite as neutered dogs.
An un-neutered male dog on a chain almost guarantees soomeone is gonna get bit.
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Originally posted by myelo
Statistically, chained dogs are 3 times as likley to bite as unchained dogs.
Also, males are 6 times as likely to bite as females. And un-neutered dogs are 3 times as liley to bite as neutered dogs.
An un-neutered male dog on a chain almost guarantees soomeone is gonna get bit.
And in every case, the owner is 100% responsible for the animal's actions.
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All I have to say here is that I see a lot of people (not all the posters, but a lot of 'em) that have strong opinions about dogs but who in fact apparently don't know jack-**** about dogs.
Here's a clue: in addition to physical attributes, dogs have personalities. Draw some conclusions from that.
culero (sheesh, and get a grip)
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Originally posted by culero
All I have to say here is that I see a lot of people (not all the posters, but a lot of 'em) that have strong opinions about dogs but who in fact apparently don't know jack-**** about dogs.
Here's a clue: in addition to physical attributes, dogs have personalities. Draw some conclusions from that.
culero (sheesh, and get a grip)
AND...
Some breeds tend to certain personalities. (grip got)
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As in people, personality in dogs is in the main a function of environment. The stereotyping you're promoting here is equally as ignorant as stereotyping people by race.
culero (saying)
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Bull culero. Dogs aren't people, they're animals that have been specifically bred for a purpose. Let's take Collies for an example since I have two of them. My three year old is shy and timid yet very personable once you get to know him. He came from an abusive home. My one year old that I've had from 8 weeks old is curious but still reserved in unfamiliar situations. He's happy and energetic, always ready to play. Two different dogs, two different personalities. The common ground they share is their INSTINCT, the purpose they were bred for. Both of them when placed with a group of animals will round them up into a tight circle without giving it a second thought. Herding dogs herd, it's what they're geared for.
Border collies are excellent examples as well. Well meaning families with small children and not a whole lot of time on their hands get one because they're supposed to be really smart and housebreak easy. Inevitably the dog gets bored and takes to herding the kids. It's not upbringing or the owner's fault (except for getting the wrong kind of dog), it all comes back to the dog's instinct that has been bred in for years.
Raise a beagle from a pup and then drop him on a trail two years later. I'll bet he takes off after the first rabbit he smells. Check out a German Shorthair when he hits a field of birds for the first time. Something inside him makes him freeze in position and point his body at the quarry. It's the same thing that can take over a pit bull's mind at any given moment. I've seen it with my own eyes. A person can take a dog of any breed and train them to be mean, but some dogs have the instinct to kill firmly planted in their genes. It's not upbringing, socialization or anything of the sorts, it's INSTINCT. It's the same reason you can't raise a tiger cub on your own and be completely safe from an attack later in life.
Cougar
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Originally posted by Sandman
After further review (and a quick Google), I believe I was incorrect. According to this (http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amerpit.html), Petey was an American Pit Bull Terrier.
(http://www.pitbull.at/postcard/image/petey.jpg)
Doesn't look like a bull terrier at all. I'm probably confusing it with the bull terrier that was on "Baa Baa Blacksheep". His name was "Meatball".
Pettie came from Colby Kennels as i believe Thomas Edison's dog did as well, the RCA logo.
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Originally posted by Torque
Pettie came from Colby Kennels as i believe Thomas Edison's dog did as well, the RCA logo.
Also Petey mauled Buckwheat on the "Our Gang" set and had to be destroyed. Tell me again how harmless this breed is.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Also Petey mauled Buckwheat on the "Our Gang" set and had to be destroyed. Tell me again how harmless this breed is.
Gotta link?
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Originally posted by Airhead
Also Petey mauled Buckwheat on the "Our Gang" set and had to be destroyed. Tell me again how harmless this breed is.
I heard that story too. O tay?
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1837789
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Read allot of stuff on pits, and the group of dogs known as the bully breeds.
Are they dangerous? Yes, AND paired with the wrong owner IMO VERY YES!!! But so are the others breeds mentioned here. Rotties, Chows, Dob's, German Shepards, etc... are or can be very dangerous. Recently read about a pack of chows that killed a little girl. If one looks around one can find an instance of such in all the afore mentioned breeds. I've seen many stories and read or heard so many opinions..... WHY? ..... IMHO it's a combination of the dogs breeding and the owner's attitude.
Among my various dogs, which include Brittiny Spaniels, German Shepards, and just plan mutts, I've had 5 pitbulls.
IMO the pit bull is VERY not for everyone.
My son, after being around my very best pit wanted, and now has one.
His pit is IMO more dangerous then the pits I have owned! IMO if a pitbull puppy ever offers to put his or her teeth on you, then you don't want that pitbull puppy. Might even be wise to put it down. Test their breeding. Test this by offering your finger to the puppy. Do this after they are weened not before! If the puppy puts his/her teeth on that finger and trys to chew on that finger then DO NOT pick that puppy, it does not have the correct breeding, OR you better now what your doing and pay very close attention to that animal and what it is doing ALL the time and be very aware of it's moods. (see below re the best pit I ever owned)
According to what I've read prior to the late 60's early 70's if a pit EVER offered to bite a human they were usually put down. I'm told responsible breeders at one time took that attitude.
IMO The breeding of pits got WAY out of control in the mid to late 70's and has gotten worse since. Allot of people breed em and sell em and some don't even get em their shots, they just want the money.
Had a small female that insisted on going on the living room carpet. She quickly became an outside dog. She woke me one morning. I heard a rattle rattle ting wop wop clang bang clunk. Looked out the window and she had a galvinized bucket she was playing with. She would grab it, run with it, shake it, then throw it into the air and run under it and hit it with her head when it came down?!?!?
She got stolen. As did 3 of the 5 I've owned.
The last pit I had was a fence chewer and got out over and over.
Finally he got out one day and attacked another dog.
When everything was over I was very happy I had insurance.
It cost over $16,000!
The best pitbull I ever had would NOT open his mouth for or at me. Would not lick me. I had to force my fingers into his mouth to give him the medication the Vet prescribed. He was extremely well behaved all the time.
He had only one problem. He hated cats. He ran up to one and wanted to play. The cat scratched him on his nose. He paused for about a second and then went after the cat. I managed to get him off and away from the cat. But after that he seemed to never forget the attack on his nose.
My entire family loved that dog! In fact everyone that ever got to know him thought very highly of him.
I would take him to the river and throw a rock into the water he would dive into the water and ALWAYS came back with a rock. Usually wasn't the rock I had thrown, mind you, but he always came back with a rock. He was NEVER trained to be mean or attack anything or anyone!
He was trained to behave himself and to be as calm as possible and to ALWAYS obey all commands. Example ... If I told him to sit he better not move until I told him he could. Much attention and reward was given him when he obeyed and when he disobeyed he was informed about his trangression. He hated to displease, he hated to hear BAAAAD!!!!! He would do the i'm so sorry act and try to do what was desired even harder.
Everything I've read thus far says Pits very much NEED to be with/around their owners, if possible ALL the time. It is claimed they require constant attention and reassurance that they matter to you. In my expeirence with em this seems to be the case. The best pit I ever had got this and was content and very well behaved. They are not a yard dog in the sense that you can leave em in the yard and ignore em. They seem to become very unhappy and get wierd. Don't know if it's a pack mentallity thing or what.
Oh well that's my $0.02 put forward because I like pit's and find them very intellegent but ....... they are not for everyone, possibly even not for most.