Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Grimm on July 06, 2004, 11:03:05 PM
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I just thought Id point out that everyone doesnt need a $3,000 monster to run this game.
I just installed a Video Card I took out of another machine into my old 450mhz machine to see how it did.
Specs
PII 450mhz
128mb RAM
Win 98
Soundblaster PCI64 sound card
Nvidia GForce DDR 32mb Video Card
Once Loaded, I patched it up to #5 and Then Set the Video To 640x480 and Textures to 128. I left the Fps to unlimited and left the rest of the settings default.
On the Runway during AutoTake off, I was getting 15fps, Not Great, but workable.
Once Airborn, with the nose up and only seeing blue skys, I would get 40fps out the front glass.
When shooting down a Drone, I was a pretty Steady 25fps.
Then I figured Id see how bad I could make it. I went LAN H2H and Launched 2 formations of B17s (6 total) and rolled directly behind them. Now things where working hard but I still had 11fps. Thank god for Autotake off ;)
So, This computer is about half the Minimum and It still runs AH2. Yes its not great, but it works.
I just thought I might post this up to give some of you hope that you can get AH2 working on an older system until you can afford that mega-machine.
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<--- drags out the good ole 486 ... i'll get back to you all . muahahahahaa
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so what are you saying ?
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Originally posted by mojo55
so what are you saying ?
if you had read all the threads bout people complaining that they need monster pc's to play you would know.
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Originally posted by Grimm
I just thought Id point out that everyone doesnt need a $3,000 monster to run this game.
I just installed a Video Card I took out of another machine into my old 450mhz machine to see how it did.
Specs
PII 450mhz
128mb RAM
Win 98
Soundblaster PCI64 sound card
Nvidia GForce DDR 32mb Video Card
Once Loaded, I patched it up to #5 and Then Set the Video To 640x480 and Textures to 128. I left the Fps to unlimited and left the rest of the settings default.
On the Runway during AutoTake off, I was getting 15fps, Not Great, but workable.
Once Airborn, with the nose up and only seeing blue skys, I would get 40fps out the front glass.
When shooting down a Drone, I was a pretty Steady 25fps.
Then I figured Id see how bad I could make it. I went LAN H2H and Launched 2 formations of B17s (6 total) and rolled directly behind them. Now things where working hard but I still had 11fps. Thank god for Autotake off ;)
So, This computer is about half the Minimum and It still runs AH2. Yes its not great, but it works.
I just thought I might post this up to give some of you hope that you can get AH2 working on an older system until you can afford that mega-machine.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!
Been saying this for two weeks.
My rig:
PIII 450
Geforce 4 MX 420 64mb (CRAP!!!!)
256 Memory
1024x768 32 Bit Res
Windows XP (Some nerd tech wannabie told me XP would never fly on this system )
Runway FPS is 25\27
I didn't fly much because I'm still tweaking using runway as a starting point refrence. But I did notice when I hit blue skys I started to see 40+ fps. I haven't taken it into anything rough yet, because I'm striving for 40 fps ont he runway.
I'm not going to say that upgrading is hog wash, but I will say that If me and grimm can do it on 450 cpus, then ANYTHING over that, with a decent video card, will pull the game.
The problem I am starting to see is a LOT of AH folks seem to have no idea how to hop a machine up PROPERLY. There are many things that need to be in line before the PC becomes streamline in thinking. Starting with the BIOS.
BIOS Video Cache, Video Shadowing,.. etc...
You all heard from two guys on basically similar machines, small, slow and old, getting the game to play with very little tweaking, in reality. At this point I have not OCed anything, yet, although experimenting. I'm taking my card clock up a little at a time until I find the honey spot.
When I get as fast as I can on the runway, at 1024x768 32 bit. I'll crank it down to 800x600 maybe even 16 bit to see just how fast I can get it. It will also take what I did and add stability to it.
GRIMM, we should do a little more tweaking and meet sometime in the H2H, if there is one , and film a fight between our two mini machines. BTW isn't that 450 a PIII?
Tweaking takes time to experiment until you find just the right settings that make the machine streamline, fast, and stable. From top to bottum, not just on the surface. I've taken days to tweak a machine.
Will I see the same art performance of those with newer monsters, prolly not, but it gets me into the air and playable.
Anim
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im glad there are people around like you Animal. This fall im gonna build my first puter and because i have never been used to tinkering around alot with bios settings (have only had laptops for the last 10 years) I have no idea what to optimise etc. There are alot more options on desktop with bios and other settings than im used to, and i would prolly end up using only 50% of its potential.
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Mine is definately a PII. I believe that was about as high as the PII went. PIII also start about 450, So there was a little over lap.
In fact this machine is the screamer that I got so I could fly AW reliabley years ago. Its never had a reinstall of windows and AW ME is still there able to go Offline.
I like the H2H Idea, that would be a hoot. "No P4s or AMDs Allowed" area ;) LOL
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I have an amd k6/2 400 and k6/2 500 any takers?
heheh
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Originally posted by Nilsen
im glad there are people around like you Animal. This fall im gonna build my first puter and because i have never been used to tinkering around alot with bios settings (have only had laptops for the last 10 years) I have no idea what to optimise etc. There are alot more options on desktop with bios and other settings than im used to, and i would prolly end up using only 50% of its potential.
I know next to nothing about PCs, and I know some here are gonna flip when I ask but: What are BIOS, what do they do, and how can I change them to boost performance?
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Originally posted by United
I know next to nothing about PCs, and I know some here are gonna flip when I ask but: What are BIOS, what do they do, and how can I change them to boost performance?
Basic Input/Output System.
When you boot your puter you can enter it and change alot of things that you cant access from within windows. Dont mess with it without being told how to by someone that knows thier stuff. See the manual that came with your mobo/computer to find out more.
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So with my PIII 866 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 32 Meg NVidia TNT2 AGP I should be able to fly AHII if I only replace the NVidia with a cheap ($80, or so) video card?
WooooHooo!:D
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
The problem I am starting to see is a LOT of AH folks seem to have no idea how to hop a machine up PROPERLY. There are many things that need to be in line before the PC becomes streamline in thinking. Starting with the BIOS.
BIOS Video Cache, Video Shadowing,.. etc...
Anim
Animal,
Could you post some ideas for us abut what to check in the things you mentioned:
BIOS
BIOS video cache
video shadowing
etc.,?
There are a lot of us here who would love to try to get some more performance out of our older machines, but don't know how to go about it.
I think I probably speak for a lot of others - we'd really appreciate it if you could post some notes on how to do that stuff! Please!!
Pretty please!!!!
Thanks,
Debuman
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Originally posted by slimm50
So with my PIII 866 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 32 Meg NVidia TNT2 AGP I should be able to fly AHII if I only replace the NVidia with a cheap ($80, or so) video card?
WooooHooo!:D
I would say you probabley could. Again, your not going to get amazing Frame rates, But you could at least be able to fly.
Right now, it sees like AH like Nvidia Cards better, even thou most of the ATI stuff seems to be better for everything else.
Take a look here at the 128mb cards
http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=VCD (http://www.compgeeks.com/products.asp?cat=VCD)
$60 might get you up and running until you can afford a system upgrade.
Now, It also possible you have a bunch of crap running in the background (spyware and such) on a system thats been around a while. If you clean it up, get current drivers and DX9 Ill bet you would be playable at a minimum level.
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btw. Does it seem to matter what operating system you use? Im thinking win2k vs xp pro.
When i build my puter i have a licence for each of them, but id like to keep xp on my laptop and use 2k on the new puter if there is no diff.
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Grimm, thanks for your reply. BTW, I have WinXP Pro. Shouldn't be a problem with that, I'm thinking. I visited the site you recommended. It's encouraging. Hope to see you all in the MA friendly skies b4 too very much longer. H2H is better than nothing, but it's like kissing your sister, as Bear Bryant would say.
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Originally posted by slimm50
So with my PIII 866 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 32 Meg NVidia TNT2 AGP I should be able to fly AHII if I only replace the NVidia with a cheap ($80, or so) video card?
WooooHooo!:D
The Nvidia TNT2 chip (nvidia 17) is the same chip used in a couple Geforce cards, namingly the Geforce 4 MX 420. This is why that card is on'y 7-11 faster then the TNT2. Unless you tweak the snot out of it.
So in otherwords the answer is yes. Better is better, but ya.
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Originally posted by United
I know next to nothing about PCs, and I know some here are gonna flip when I ask but: What are BIOS, what do they do, and how can I change them to boost performance?
Go to my old site
http://www.icongrp.com/~stagemon/ah/
In the left menu look for Bios. This site is currently being rebuilt, the new version is not online yet. But this stuff still applies.
Anim
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Originally posted by Grimm
Mine is definately a PII. I believe that was about as high as the PII went. PIII also start about 450, So there was a little over lap.
In fact this machine is the screamer that I got so I could fly AW reliabley years ago. Its never had a reinstall of windows and AW ME is still there able to go Offline.
I like the H2H Idea, that would be a hoot. "No P4s or AMDs Allowed" area ;) LOL
Ok I finally took flight last night, to lazy and tired to setup the stick I flew via mouse, which is not all that bad.
I averaged 20-29 fps over the base shooting Drones, not screeming but playable. I flew around for a while and never really hit a spot that was unplayable. a few quick dips to 17 fps
So I flew in a small furball of 5-6 planes (drones) Never had any problem, a furball of say 10-15 planes would prolly chop it up at this point, but I'm still not done either.
I was in the 40s over the water looking at the sky.
This FM smokes the living pants off the AH1 FM.
I don't know why people are sniveling about gunnery, all I had to do is hit that target and poof.....of course once I learned AH2 was coming I quit flying, so I don't have that AH1 FM inbedded in my head. You just have to be closer tot he target, more like RL, you're not likely to hit a target at 800-1000 yards, but I did a few times.
HTC is doing a smokin job, no matter what the snivelers say.
I love the FM and I love the new gunnery settings. Some peope just need to pull their pants up and be men about it.
I flew between branches of the trees and clipped one branch but didn't die. Hit the truck and poof
VERY good stuff HTC and crew, wtfg!
Anim
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I guess I better add that the testing I am doing so far was on version 200, no updates, just the raw first version. I just installed update 5 and going to see what that did.
Anim
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Maybe you guys can help me-
I have been trying to get AH2 to run on my dinosaur for some time, well before the MA went AH2. I still cannot get it to run, I have been workin on it with skuzzy and we still cant seem to find the trouble.
Pent 3 933
win 98
geforce 4 mx 420 (5664 driver) (same prob w/old driver)
sb live value (0252 driver)
384mb ram
directx 9.0b
I always get "initialization failed with -3mainGR3D_Failed-4"
I have tried changin desktop color, tried changing drivers, got a new hard drive cause my last one was old & small, I have posts in tech help but still no solution.
I also tried complete uninstall & deleted all HTC programs, then fresh D/L from BBS, when I checked my settings folder it was blank. Both my firewall & my anti-virus are supposed to let all HTC content pass, is it possible somehow only specific files got blocked?
Anton
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bet it is just crusty. Did you reinstall 98 clean on the new drive, or just copy over the old one?
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No one is complaining about not being able to fly or look at the blue sky. I don't anderstand what exactly your point is. Is it that we are just whiners and have no reason to complain? Try this, go online, get into an area with lets say 6 planes close to an airfield thats maybe smoking, get on someones six and fire the guns. She your frame rates go to 0 while you are locked up and heading for the water. Then wake up in the tower and enjoy your FPS.
If your point is that the game will start and you can fly around using an old computer then fine, otherwise . . . . .
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Originally posted by slimm50
So with my PIII 866 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 32 Meg NVidia TNT2 AGP I should be able to fly AHII if I only replace the NVidia with a cheap ($80, or so) video card?
WooooHooo!:D
slim thats basically the same rig Im using . The only difference is I slapped in a nvidia FX5200 with 128mb of ram
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Pretty much same setup as Animal here, cept mine's a PIII 800Mhz, running 98se instead of XP. Pretty much same result, FR wise. Only time it really drops below 20 fps is when I switch to ground visual range for hunting GV's. Then it'll drop to somewhere between 12 & 16 fps, but still playable, certainly enough for shootin truck drivers :)
LostRat
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
slim thats basically the same rig Im using . The only difference is I slapped in a nvidia FX5200 with 128mb of ram
Hey wild, are experiencing any probs? I got a 2Gig 256ram FX5500 256 video. I cannot get into a furball without the FPS goign below 12. What are your other settings?
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Originally posted by anton
Maybe you guys can help me-
I have been trying to get AH2 to run on my dinosaur for some time, well before the MA went AH2. I still cannot get it to run, I have been workin on it with skuzzy and we still cant seem to find the trouble.
Pent 3 933
win 98
geforce 4 mx 420 (5664 driver) (same prob w/old driver)
sb live value (0252 driver)
384mb ram
directx 9.0b
I always get "initialization failed with -3mainGR3D_Failed-4"
I have tried changin desktop color, tried changing drivers, got a new hard drive cause my last one was old & small, I have posts in tech help but still no solution.
I also tried complete uninstall & deleted all HTC programs, then fresh D/L from BBS, when I checked my settings folder it was blank. Both my firewall & my anti-virus are supposed to let all HTC content pass, is it possible somehow only specific files got blocked?
Anton
I ued to get the same message heres the fixes
since your running 98 try this go to the HTC floder then aceshigh.exec file rename it to aceshigh II.exec
This worked for a long time for me till i found out i had to go into compatability in XP and turn off "run in 256 colors"
If that doesnt work email HT he can either tell you exactly whats wrong and/or hook you up with a work around. {he did this for me}
Basically your card is failing to load aceshigh2 correctly.
If you have any other questions my email is in my sig
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Originally posted by dedalos
No one is complaining about not being able to fly or look at the blue sky. I don't anderstand what exactly your point is. Is it that we are just whiners and have no reason to complain? Try this, go online, get into an area with lets say 6 planes close to an airfield thats maybe smoking, get on someones six and fire the guns. She your frame rates go to 0 while you are locked up and heading for the water. Then wake up in the tower and enjoy your FPS.
If your point is that the game will start and you can fly around using an old computer then fine, otherwise . . . . .
Do you even read or do you just skim post?
I just posted that my FPS was in the 20s over a city, looking down at it shooting drones, 5-6 of them, exactly what you are asking only off line. If I had an aco**** I would shoot your down just to prove the point. ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by LostRat
Pretty much same setup as Animal here, cept mine's a PIII 800Mhz, running 98se instead of XP. Pretty much same result, FR wise. Only time it really drops below 20 fps is when I switch to ground visual range for hunting GV's. Then it'll drop to somewhere between 12 & 16 fps, but still playable, certainly enough for shootin truck drivers :)
LostRat
It can be better for you with that rig. ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by anton
Maybe you guys can help me-
I have been trying to get AH2 to run on my dinosaur for some time, well before the MA went AH2. I still cannot get it to run, I have been workin on it with skuzzy and we still cant seem to find the trouble.
Pent 3 933
win 98
geforce 4 mx 420 (5664 driver) (same prob w/old driver)
sb live value (0252 driver)
384mb ram
directx 9.0b
I always get "initialization failed with -3mainGR3D_Failed-4"
I have tried changin desktop color, tried changing drivers, got a new hard drive cause my last one was old & small, I have posts in tech help but still no solution.
I also tried complete uninstall & deleted all HTC programs, then fresh D/L from BBS, when I checked my settings folder it was blank. Both my firewall & my anti-virus are supposed to let all HTC content pass, is it possible somehow only specific files got blocked?
Anton
Anton ;-)
I had the same error when changing viedo settings and then restarting the game. It then just went away, after I finished setting what I wanted. At first I assumed that converting from my desktop res to the game res I wanted may have caused it. I'm just not sure yet. HT has the specs on what triggers this error message.
When tweaking DO NOT just make a bunch of settings and go with it. Experiment with each one you do. Reboot, often, take one at a time and make sure each and every setting contribute to performance before just leaving it.
Tweaking a machine needs to star at the core. If the bios is not setup right for your video card, nothing you do will mean crap, many things can happen, incluing freezes and stutters. Work your way UP from the bios. You can read about BIOS definitions and what they do, at the old AH Tech Hangar site, the new one is not up yet.
http://www.icongrp.com/~stagemon/ah/
In the left menu look for BIOS settings. READ the document fully before doing anything. The BIOS is a dangerous place to toy with so make sure you document ALL your changes. No exceptions. At this time only BX and VIA bios are addressed here.
At that point I would look for tweaks to streamline memory, most all the pages there will tell how and why.
Now here's the catch, after you make all these settings, you may end up with a clash, this is where you are going to really fine tune it.
I'm not a fan of Overclocking, there is more to OCing then just hopping up the CPU, the Video card should be OCed to add stability if you are going to OC the CPU. Save OCing for LAST, other wise you'll get a comination of errors that will be hard to figure out.
Turn off EVERYTHING, and I mean everything, no exceptions period. Firewalls are great but they constantly are checking the reg so it's a process that eats resources. All auto email checking should be off. If you have XP there are a lot of startup services that can be disabled or set to manual, these are also resource hogs. Same with Anti Virus, HOGS. Spyware detectors as well, When Is ay everything I do in fact mean everything.
Basically I do not what I did in AW3. I make a new user desktop and turning off everything from starting up, running in the back ground etc. Real bland. This way when I want to play i don't have to destroy my normal desktop to play.
MS Office FindFast, OE auto email checking (30 min) will cause stalls and jitters when they decide to run at intervals as anythig else. That could be why some players are just fine for a while then suddenly the FPS goes to crap, then after a few seconds they see it come up again. some will refer to this in the game as warping, because that's the illuion an over worked CPU will demonstrate.
For the most part. No one tweak is going to show massive performance jumps, unless you found THE bottleneck. The performance will increase with a combination of tweaks working together. This is what I refer to as streamline. Everything moves smoothly together.
I just can't put in one post what all you need to look at, but this should be a start in the right direction. But I think starting int he BIOS *CAREFULLY* is the way to start. DO not paygames with the BIOS, if you are not absolutely sure what something does do not change it.
Check your Buss speeds, make sure they are correct.
Power Management, Video Shadowing, Video Cacheing can usually be disabled for performance hits, depending on how old your card is usually. Most those things cause Machine Latency. So we don't only talk about connection latency, but machine latency as well.
Sorry for the long windedness, but this can't really be addressed in one post ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Do you even read or do you just skim post?
I just posted that my FPS was in the 20s over a city, looking down at it shooting drones, 5-6 of them, exactly what you are asking only off line. If I had an aco**** I would shoot your down just to prove the point. ;-)
Anim
lol, you wouldn't. You would lock up as your guns fired. I have no probs off line either. Its not the same. I always have to fly out over the water and pick up a fight there. I can maintain 30 to 40 outhere. Over a field under attack I can do 12 to 0.
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Originally posted by dedalos
lol, you wouldn't. You would lock up as your guns fired. I have no probs off line either. Its not the same. I always have to fly out over the water and pick up a fight there. I can maintain 30 to 40 outhere. Over a field under attack I can do 12 to 0.
Would you like to place a bet on that?
Anim
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Originally posted by slimm50
So with my PIII 866 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 32 Meg NVidia TNT2 AGP I should be able to fly AHII if I only replace the NVidia with a cheap ($80, or so) video card?
WooooHooo!:D
yup ;-)
Anim
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My Point is incourage some of those that are in despair over AH2 and upgrades.
Iv seen alot of posts of people talking 3ghz machines with $400 video cards. I also see a lot of people thinking that you need at least 100fps to play. The truth is you dont nessescarily need to have a cutting edge machine.
Im not telling anyone to go out, buy a used 450mhz machine and expect to play. AH does work on machines less than the recommended Minimum, so perhaps if someone is having troubles they can get it to play on a clean mid-range machine.
I will go ahead and go online with it and see how it preforms and post some results.
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Online test done.. Not too bad
I didnt enter combat, but flew around a swarm of Friendlies. I also fired some test shots with tracers on. (even thru the smoke from porkage)
I was pretty solid in most situations 15-30 fps. No freeze ups or lockups.
Its not as pretty, and not as smooth as I would consider Ideal, but I could fly without any problems.
If your not getting useable frame rates, consider going first to less texture size, then maybe to a lower resolution (in the game) and see how it goes.
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I started playing AH2 on my celeron 500Mhz with the radeon 9600 pro, 128 mbs ram and my frames were anywhere between 16 to 60 but usually around mid 20's to high 30's so i couldn't complain.
I have upgraded with a new mother board, 2.2Ghz processor, 512 megs of ram, and a case for $327 (just swaped out vid card, cd drive, hard and floppy drive).
My frames rarley drop below 30 but are usually 40 or above they get better as the new patches are released.
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Here's the something to keep in mind...
I posted this before and some half baked moron told me I didn't know what I was talking about. He said I was too technical. That technicality happens to come into logical play.
The human eye only see\thinks so fast. It can not and will not detect FPS above 40, in fact it may be lower, but it has limits.
You can't tell 100 fps from 40 fps, unless you have a metering device to tell you so. Had AH never shown you FPS, you would never know how slow you are until you actually drop below 25 fps. The picture then starts to degrade.
The moron told me TV, VCR and games are different. BS, frame rate is frame rate and a VCR is like 25-30 FPS, I can't remember which.
I'm going to go back to research this again to get exact numbers, but these are in the ball park. ;-)
Anim
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i not used a PII for nearly 5 years.......
it IS 2004 isnt it?:confused: ;)
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Here's the something to keep in mind...
I posted this before and some half baked moron told me I didn't know what I was talking about. He said I was too technical. That technicality happens to come into logical play.
The human eye only see\thinks so fast. It can not and will not detect FPS above 40, in fact it may be lower, but it has limits.
You can't tell 100 fps from 40 fps, unless you have a metering device to tell you so. Had AH never shown you FPS, you would never know how slow you are until you actually drop below 25 fps. The picture then starts to degrade.
The moron told me TV, VCR and games are different. BS, frame rate is frame rate and a VCR is like 25-30 FPS, I can't remember which.
I'm going to go back to research this again to get exact numbers, but these are in the ball park. ;-)
Anim
oh god, not this stupid arguement again
you are wrong, VERY wrong ok?
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Originally posted by Grimm
Online test done.. Not too bad
I didnt enter combat, but flew around a swarm of Friendlies. I also fired some test shots with tracers on. (even thru the smoke from porkage)
I was pretty solid in most situations 15-30 fps. No freeze ups or lockups.
Its not as pretty, and not as smooth as I would consider Ideal, but I could fly without any problems.
If your not getting useable frame rates, consider going first to less texture size, then maybe to a lower resolution (in the game) and see how it goes.
Thats how AH1 worked on my PC (see below specs), around 15-30FPS in flight, low 20s in furballs. I did it at 800x600 resolution, and dropping down to 600x400(or whatever it was) didnt improve FRs at all.
Animal, that site you gave me was more than helpful. I was thinking of testing things out, but then got word that my new system is in the mail, so i figured I'd just let it ride for a week or so. Thanks anyways though! If the new one is anything like that site was, it'll be great!
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Anton, put your sound card in another pci slot and check it again.
Also look if you have on a onboard soundcard,if yes, go to bios and disable it.
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anyone got a pci 64mb video card they aint using ???
the old monster card in my 500mhz 486/k6 doesnt quite cut it .
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Originally posted by Overlag
oh god, not this stupid arguement again
you are wrong, VERY wrong ok?
Hold on guys, excuse me while I drop a few levels to communicate with this one.
No not ok. You're a moron. If I am wrong explain to me EXACTLY where I am wrong..... OK?
I have zero tolerance for people like you. All you say is
"you are wrong, VERY wrong ok?"
what do you know that I don't that backs this up? Can you explain to me where I am wrong or is it just an imaginary technical assumption in your own head. I'm not sure, all you say is I am wrong and offer no explination. If I am wrong please straighten me\us out. What is this the 3rd post where you say I am wrong yet offer nothing?
Explain away.
I will go so far as to say this, if you prove me wrong I'll eat crow , if you don't,.. then STFU. OK?
Don't bite my ankles and I won't gouge your eyes out. I'm not a punk, don't treat me like one.
Ok, now what were we talking about,.... oh ya,....
Anim
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Animal, human eye see with 24 fps.
Now if i make you see something with 70 fps i can use the other
36 fps to make you learn greeks, or vote whom ever i like without
you understand nothing, or to make you drink pepsi instead of coke ;)
I also can make you s..k in AH :)
Its the Power of The Subconcius.
our life run @ 24 fps. Everything more is under investigation:cool:
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Originally posted by Hades55
Anton, put your sound card in another pci slot and check it again.
Also look if you have on a onboard soundcard,if yes, go to bios and disable it.
He's not having a soundcard problem its a proble with his video card loading the grafics. I used to get this exact dame message as Anton thats why I explained how to fix it. Hitech and i did several troubleshooting steps on this as well. For windows XP users IIRC the problem was finally attributed to having to set the compatability in XP to NOT run in 256 color mode
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CC :)
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Originally posted by Hades55
Animal, human eye see with 24 fps.
Now if i make you see something with 70 fps i can use the other
36 fps to make you learn greeks, or vote whom ever i like without
you understand nothing, or to make you drink pepsi instead of coke ;)
I also can make you s..k in AH :)
Its the Power of The Subconcius.
our life run @ 24 fps. Everything more is under investigation:cool:
Like I said, you explained nothing. Moreover you actually backed up a long known theory, which is the one *I* use.
Why would they base the human eye at 24 *fps*, unless they were comparing it to film?
If film\frames didn't exist would the human eye read speed still be calculated based on FPS? Didn't think of that did you?
More over you made my point more clear, anything over 24 FPS the human eye can't detect the difference. OH WOW, that just happens to be the same speed as a VCR.... wonder if that's just a coinincidence.....huh?
You know just enough to be dangerous and mouthy.
Your subliminal message attempt just tells me that what you can't see, you don't need. You can not detect or actually SEE long enough to register as sight, only to the brain. What use is something in a game you won't see? Anything over 25 fps is nice extra, which is there to ensure you don't drop below 24 in intense art situations.
Next time, put your tin foil hat on right so you get the right signals.
I'm not a BB board argue whimp, you ought to quit while you still think you're ahead.
I mean, what is this, your first BBQ>?
It's not mine, I've been doing this (sims) for 10+ yrs.
I've been in the entertainment biz for 25 yrs.
I was a video tech and event CM for AW3 for 2 years both in Kesmai and EA.com. I built and maintained, Animal's Toolbox, AW Tech Hangar, CAST (AW3 Game Staff for Kesmai and EA.com (gag)) and now AH Tech Hangar. Gamer Kit software, AH Sound Manager, .. and on and on......I know I have at least 1 clue.
and that's all the conversation I need to communicate with you. You don't deserve one more second of my time, and you're not going to get it. ;-)
~
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Passes Animal the bottle ... Here have a slug ...
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hey animal could ya email me? I have some questions about the sound manager on tech hanger.
My email is in my sig
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Animal, you dont look very polite person, are you ?
BTW put your time together with your knowlege and roscoroos
bottle where you know and keep them there worm ;)
I had not in mind to upset you or to be smart prettythang.
I wanted just to discuss on the fps subject without knowing your
knowlenge on the subject.
But you look very prettythang..le to think or care about that.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Hold on guys, excuse me while I drop a few levels to communicate with this one.
No not ok. You're a moron. If I am wrong explain to me EXACTLY where I am wrong..... OK?
I have zero tolerance for people like you. All you say is
"you are wrong, VERY wrong ok?"
what do you know that I don't that backs this up? Can you explain to me where I am wrong or is it just an imaginary technical assumption in your own head. I'm not sure, all you say is I am wrong and offer no explination. If I am wrong please straighten me\us out. What is this the 3rd post where you say I am wrong yet offer nothing?
Explain away.
I will go so far as to say this, if you prove me wrong I'll eat crow , if you don't,.. then STFU. OK?
Don't bite my ankles and I won't gouge your eyes out. I'm not a punk, don't treat me like one.
Ok, now what were we talking about,.... oh ya,....
Anim
:rolleyes:
i love it when people see that old tvs use 24 fps, so that means thats all the human eye can see.
maybe on a a TV screen, but not a high res monitor without motion blur.... oh forget it, yes your eyes see 24fps only! you win.......
ok download this http://sdw.arsware.org/FPSCompare/
and tell me you cant see a difference between 24fps and 40 or 70....
to me it stops making a difference between 60 and 70 ie 60 is totaly smooth to me so 70 makes no difference
we've been through this arguement many times theres NEVER a real answer to the question. your asking me for facts, but WHY DONT YOU tell me some facts huh? oh a TV screen uses 24fps so thats all we can see....nice evidence!
and why did you have to bring this up in this thread anyway?
oh and i bet you've never SEEN high fps...thats why your telling me the whole human race cant :lol :rofl
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I really wouldn't count 11fps as workable and specially not playable, even 20 fps is on the limit of "playable" in my book, I may be spoiled though...
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quite interesting read on fps and how the eye sees.
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
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Originally posted by Blank
quite interesting read on fps and how the eye sees.
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
Ive read it before and its very convincing.
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If you dont hear from me in a while its because my puter may have melted.
Im gonna try to install AH2 on my laptop cause i havent tried it since the first beta :D
-edit- my graphics card did not support hardware T&L so i could not start it at all :D
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Would you like to place a bet on that?
Anim
lol, Nop. It is not that hard to shoot me down. Just fly around me in a circle until I hit the water. :D
An example from last night: A 47 is on a friendly. I am in a 51 and I drop in to help, alt about 1000ft. the bud guy does not see me. I get at about 400 and fire. Screen locks for a second or two. I pull up and get ready for second pass. Again at 400 I open fire. Screen locks. Pull up and repeat. After the 4th pass the friendly is dead and help has arived for the bad guy. What was going to be an easy kill turned into a pissed off friendly and almost a broken stick on my end. The same happened 10 minutes latter. I got a 190 ropped in a 38. As he was falling off the sky, I pull the triger at d400. Screen locks and I was lucky to pull up before hitting the water. This happened after playing for 30 minutes with no probs and did not happen again for a while.
I don't know what is causing it but when it happens, it takes the fun out of it.
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Originally posted by Blank
quite interesting read on fps and how the eye sees.
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
thanks...i couldnt find that link :)
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Originally posted by dedalos
lol, Nop. It is not that hard to shoot me down. Just fly around me in a circle until I hit the water. :D
An example from last night: A 47 is on a friendly. I am in a 51 and I drop in to help, alt about 1000ft. the bud guy does not see me. I get at about 400 and fire. Screen locks for a second or two. I pull up and get ready for second pass. Again at 400 I open fire. Screen locks. Pull up and repeat. After the 4th pass the friendly is dead and help has arived for the bad guy. What was going to be an easy kill turned into a pissed off friendly and almost a broken stick on my end. The same happened 10 minutes latter. I got a 190 ropped in a 38. As he was falling off the sky, I pull the triger at d400. Screen locks and I was lucky to pull up before hitting the water. This happened after playing for 30 minutes with no probs and did not happen again for a while.
I don't know what is causing it but when it happens, it takes the fun out of it.
reduce textures down to 256...since not all of them are 1024 theres no point to put up with all the stuttering for a few good ones........:(
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Originally posted by Overlag
reduce textures down to 256...since not all of them are 1024 theres no point to put up with all the stuttering for a few good ones........:(
I am at 512. If I go lower I don't see hit sprites, I think. Anyway, I will give it a try.
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Originally posted by Overlag
:rolleyes:
i love it when people see that old tvs use 24 fps, so that means thats all the human eye can see.
maybe on a a TV screen, but not a high res monitor without motion blur.... oh forget it, yes your eyes see 24fps only! you win.......
ok download this http://sdw.arsware.org/FPSCompare/
and tell me you cant see a difference between 24fps and 40 or 70....
to me it stops making a difference between 60 and 70 ie 60 is totaly smooth to me so 70 makes no difference
we've been through this arguement many times theres NEVER a real answer to the question. your asking me for facts, but WHY DONT YOU tell me some facts huh? oh a TV screen uses 24fps so thats all we can see....nice evidence!
and why did you have to bring this up in this thread anyway?
oh and i bet you've never SEEN high fps...thats why your telling me the whole human race cant :lol :rofl
oh and i bet you've never SEEN high fps...thats why your telling me the whole human race cant :lol :rofl [/B][/QUOTE]
>h a TV screen uses 24fps so thats all we can see....nice evidence!
Not only do you not know what I am talking about, you don't know what you are talking about.
No that's not what I said, that's how you conciously chose to interprit it. You want evidence you yourself can not offer. I'll fill up this whole BB with evidence, you offer nothing.
Yes I am going to tell you that unless you had a metter telling you you had a 100 FPS. you could not tell the difference if it was 40 or 100 yes I am saying that. Pretty much like if you had your arm cut off you'd swear it was still there, you'd still feel like it's there, but it's not.
In a nut shell, all we are saying is, you don't NEED 120 FPS to fly the game and have fun. As long as you stay above 25 fps you'll have fun and THAT is the subject here, not what you two morphed it into. You don't understand what we are REALLY saying therefore in your mind we must be wrong because you just can't get what we are saying.
If you go around saying you can't fly the game unless you have 70FPS then you are missleading people to think they can't play and that is an injustice.
Anim
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If you go around saying you can't fly the game unless you have 70FPS then you are missleading people to think they can't play and that is an injustice.
Anim
Amen Animal!
I would say 40fps average would be enough for good solid game play. Then you can be pretty sure even in a high graphical deman area, your still going to be around the mid 20s.
But, You can still fly with lower frames. Remember AW and Big PAC. The harbor area around Hawaii was a killer. People would just avoid that area, you learned to compensate.
Below 25 smothness goes away quickly, at 15 things look pretty choppy. Yet I personaly can still fly at 15 (if thats as bad as it gets).
Let me list average frame rates like this, and this is strickly my opinion
15-25 poor barely flyable
25-35 OK might have some frame hits in bad situations
35-50 Good, should be smooth all the time.
50-75 Great looks fantastic all the time.
75-100 You now can claim your the most manly with a super box.
100+ The gods wish they were as cool as you ;)
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{ Pretty much same setup as Animal here, cept mine's a PIII 800Mhz, running 98se instead of XP. Pretty much same result, FR wise. Only time it really drops below 20 fps is when I switch to ground visual range for hunting GV's. Then it'll drop to somewhere between 12 & 16 fps, but still playable, certainly enough for shootin truck drivers
LostRat }
It can be better for you with that rig. ;-)
Anim
Prolly Animal, but working til I upgrade this fall. ... and hard to keep the 'puter running clean when I come home to find the other 'tards in the house have done something stupid to it while I was toiling away at work, hehe
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Originally posted by Overlag
:rolleyes:
i love it when people see that old tvs use 24 fps, so that means thats all the human eye can see.
maybe on a a TV screen, but not a high res monitor without motion blur.... oh forget it, yes your eyes see 24fps only! you win.......
ok download this http://sdw.arsware.org/FPSCompare/
and tell me you cant see a difference between 24fps and 40 or 70....
to me it stops making a difference between 60 and 70 ie 60 is totaly smooth to me so 70 makes no difference
we've been through this arguement many times theres NEVER a real answer to the question. your asking me for facts, but WHY DONT YOU tell me some facts huh? oh a TV screen uses 24fps so thats all we can see....nice evidence!
and why did you have to bring this up in this thread anyway?
oh and i bet you've never SEEN high fps...thats why your telling me the whole human race cant :lol :rofl
LOL FOD
Ok I read the article.
You need to read between the lines as to what he is saying, and what I was trying to say.
Quite evidently my figures WERE correct, according to the research we did years ago.
Also quite evidently, according to this web page from someone I don't know how credible they are (translation from the original experiment) further research has been done since then. I would much rather see the document he gets this data from then reading translations. He could be 100% accurate but I don't know that yet, he could also be innocently telling half truths.
*******
Here's my point. I don't mind, if my data is old and it needs updating, I am always willing to be SHOWN learn new information. I asked for example from one person who DID approach the issue in a rather insulting manner, and someone else offered up the data, not him. Basically his approach to say I am wrong sucked, that’s his fault. A semi apology followed by yet another insult, didn’t smooth anything over. Had he posted info in his first post this conversation would not exist. So basically, he basically got what he asked for, whether you or he like it or not. TS
But this arrogant NON “polite” approach to just dweeble out and say "OH PLEASE.. blah blah blah ".. and produce nothing is stupid
Another more reasonable approach that would not require a return of insults would be to say sumthin like....
"That may have been true years ago, but further research has been done since and maybe you'd like to refresh or update your knowledge base by reading this link."
Look up the term Cognitive Conversation.
**********
I am not saying this article is wrong, and I'm not saying it's 100% accurate. I will admit I may need to be updated. I will say it has inspired me to look into what this guy says, besides just his web page. I'd rather see the original articles he gets his data from, which I am going to search for. I understand what he is saying, I'm just not sure it applies 100% as to our original subject, it seems to have a very slight different approach. The eye may see more then 30 fps, but things won’t get bad until it drops below that or 24. And that is 100% correct.
No one is saying that anything over 24 is a waste, it's awesome, more power to ya. If you can afford a new monster good, go get it, it's all the better. If you can't and you are struggling to play as long as you can push that machine to stay above 25 you'll be ok, not great, ok. But you need to learn how to push a machine to extreme, and it’s the guys with slow machine who know how to do this best.
BTW
You don't sound any better other then you had enough smarts to post the link. GFYYFFF
Anim
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My my Apple IIE get 7FPS
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ok animal you win :rolleyes: :lol
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Originally posted by Grimm
15-25 poor barely flyable
25-35 OK might have some frame hits in bad situations
35-50 Good, should be smooth all the time.
50-75 Great looks fantastic all the time.
75-100 You now can claim your the most manly with a super box.
100+ The gods wish they were as cool as you ;)
indeed
there IS a difference between 35 and 70 (70hz vsync....)
35fps is "ok" and yes i cant see any FPS (since the human eye doesnt see FPS......) but it stutters around.
70fps just smooths out the movements so much more
animal...calm down a tad :lol
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Originally posted by Overlag
indeed
there IS a difference between 35 and 70 (70hz vsync....)
35fps is "ok" and yes i cant see any FPS (since the human eye doesnt see FPS......) but it stutters around.
70fps just smooths out the movements so much more
animal...calm down a tad :lol
LOL Dude, I'm calm, compared to when I really pop a cork, this is fairytail peacefulness. I just have zero tolerence for nonsense.
G. Patton:
"...Sometimes it's appropriate to kill a fly with a sledge hammer"
"A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Anim
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i think 7 fps is playable.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
LOL Dude, I'm calm, compared to when I really pop a cork, this is fairytail peacefulness. I just have zero tolerence for nonsense.
G. Patton:
"...Sometimes it's appropriate to kill a fly with a sledge hammer"
"A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Anim
so....your facts then? blank posted the link i was looking for....i posted a link that has a nice program that shows the diff?
all you've done is textual screaming at me that im wrong....... :)
the fps arguement is totaly over done on the internet, and it never reaches a proper conclusion, with each side of the frence rubbishing the others sources......lol :lol
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Originally posted by Overlag
so....your facts then? blank posted the link i was looking for....i posted a link that has a nice program that shows the diff?
all you've done is textual screaming at me that im wrong....... :)
the fps arguement is totaly over done on the internet, and it never reaches a proper conclusion, with each side of the frence rubbishing the others sources......lol :lol
I'm not rubbishing the link of the resources, I'm not rubbishing your link to the proggie. As a matter of fact, I'm like a sponge and obsorb all I can. I like seeing people post things of interest to me. Learning doesn't stop the second you think you know it all, it's an on going process, atleast with me. Chances are, if you think you know it all there is a bigger chance you don't.
If someone can prove me wrong, I don't take offence or as it proving me wrong, I take it as furthering my education on a subject. The more I know, the better chances I have of seeing the big picture more clearly.
I really enjoy helping people who can't play, get them to play, see the smile, and move on to the next challenge. Sometimes I enjoy that more then the game itself. Maybe I just come from a different type of community, I dunno.
My point to this "arguement" is not that I am always right, it's that just to say I am wrong and offer nothing as an explination is questionable, then I have to say, why bother me at all? That's like getting a paycheck with nothing written on it.
I'm not directing this at you, but, I have a very low tolerance for an immature attitude entering an adult conversation. It just doesn't blow my skirt up much. ;-)
Sorry if I unduely offended anyone. ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by Overlag
so....your facts then?
BTW, I'd much rather see a proggie done the same format as the game. This proggie is OpenGL format, Not DirectX as in AH.
Although I understand what you are proving, it's possible that it's not the same. OpenGL tends to run faster and smoother in a lot of cases, namingly Half-Life.
I don't need facts for this one, this seems easy.
Now if you look close you can see the difference, but you do have to look fairly close, Its not as if it jumps out at you. If you didn't have another side to compare you wouldn't notice it nearly as much. It's somewhat of an optical illusion to be able to see both at once, which is something you will not see in the game.
Sorta like comparing very close colors, you really don't know which one is darker until you compare them side by side. If you didn't see them side by side it would be VERY hard to tell the difference from a simple mental reference (memory), seeing them one at a time. Quite different.
So at this point while you may have proven something in a side-by-side comparison. It didn't convince me enough to believe whole heartedly that a player could tell much of a difference in the game using peripheral vision, you're gonna have to look *hard* to see it.
Also, notice the comparison numbers do not compare the numbers I think I was suggesting which were using the comparison of 40 FPS -vs- 70 or 80. If you can barely see the difference of 30 vs 70, you are going to see less of a difference using 40 -vs- e.i. 80. As I pretty sure I suggested.
30 is only 6 higher then the minimum, it's playable but real smooth kicks in at around 40.
10 FPS makes a difference that close to the minimum. On the higher end of the spectrum 10 FPS doesn’t mean squat.
Thanks for posting the proggie ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
I'm not rubbishing the link of the resources, I'm not rubbishing your link to the proggie. As a matter of fact, I'm like a sponge and obsorb all I can. I like seeing people post things of interest to me. Learning doesn't stop the second you think you know it all, it's an on going process, atleast with me. Chances are, if you think you know it all there is a bigger chance you don't.
i ment the "fps arguement" on the net (every forum has at least one lol) , not just you :)
Originally posted by FT_Animal
My point to this "arguement" is not that I am always right, it's that just to say I am wrong and offer nothing as an explination is questionable, then I have to say, why bother me at all? That's like getting a paycheck with nothing written on it.
I'm not directing this at you, but, I have a very low tolerance for an immature attitude entering an adult conversation. It just doesn't blow my skirt up much. ;-)
Sorry if I unduely offended anyone. ;-)
Anim
heh i was just a tad annoyed at something that night (probably got shot down too many times :mad: ).... but the whole reason i acted like that is im sick of seeing these type of silly post about the fps we see. Every forum, every year it seems has the same thing lol.
no one REALLY knows, how can they test it? is everyone the same?
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Originally posted by Grimm
I just thought Id point out that everyone doesnt need a $3,000 monster to run this game.
I just installed a Video Card I took out of another machine into my old 450mhz machine to see how it did.
Hey Grimm!
Nice work. I happen to know that FTStil is flying a setup not much better (or newer) than this. The problem is that we are still in the tweaking phase of this new AH, and we all need to be a little patient. I've seen my frame rate get steadily better, as Hitech tweaks the engine.
Here's another thing that I've observed: most people I know start out with really great machines, and proceed to load them up with games, programs of dubious quality that they download, software, etc. Gradually, every time they boot up, they're starting up a couple of dozen programs that run in the background, and they fill up their hard drives and basically choke their systems. However, as long as Aces High works, they don't do anything about it. Then, along comes a major release, and their machines can't handle it.
Now, to be perfectly honest about it, that 450 of yours isn't going to be very much fun to fly with, unless you can get the fps above 25 or so in smoke and busy dogfighting environments. If you can do that, that would truly be amazing. BUT! I fly with a one gig machine with a 2-year old 5700 video card, and I do just fine in the smoke. Of course, I have completely cleaned out all of the extraneous crap in my machine, too, and I recommend that as a first step to anybody having problems. It doesn't cost anything, either. ;)