Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fscott on January 03, 2001, 10:49:00 PM
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I can't understand all the hoopla over the CH Combatstick. Understand that I have been using a Suncom F15 Talon for the past 2 years without a hitch and all of a sudden one of the pots went all crazy. It's an easy thing to repair but I got all swooped up by the CH mystique and this UBS thing.
Anyway, the first thing I noticed was how easy it was to push this stick around. Compared to my Talon it felt like I was pushing a pencil around. No feedback at all hardly. Keep in mind that I kicked up my Talon's springs a few notches and it was even harder to pull around, so going to the CH stick felt like cheap junk. I tried the O-ring suggestion and even tried several different sizes in conjunction with the springs. It felt a little stiffer but it also felt ..uhm..sticky? I hate the way that it was not smooth in all the axes. You can feel where one axis starts and another ends.
And the UBS thing. Yes the small spikes were gone, but not really too much better than my good old CH gamecard, and with the speed set just right, it almost kills all the spiking.
The Suncom is smooth all the way around. It is big and feels like it's made of steel. Heavy too. I'm looking at the two, my old Suncom and this brand new shiny CH thing and I'm trying to figure out for the life of me why the CH stick can get by at $80 where the Talon is only $25????
So the CH stick went back in the box and off to the shipper. I called around and was pleasantly surprised to find just one Suncom Talon left at a nearby store. I got it came home, and WOW! They have apparently upped the ante on the springs cause this baby has even more tension than my juiced up model, and it is so smooth. Hardly a scratch of spiking noticeable.
Some say the CH sticks will last for 6 years or more. Really though..who cares? For $25 you can buy a brand new Talon one every 3 years for the same price of this piece of pure plastic junk they call a CH stick.
Keep in mind this is my first experience with a CH stick since I had the old Flightstick about 8 years ago. Feels like the same old crap.
fscott
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never take a recomendation from us is the answer..
ive noticed this strange brand loyalty with video cards.i guess they spend a fortune then even if its crap they tell you its great because they wont even admit to themselves they've bought a wrong'un (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
btw everything ive bought is top notch...no really! go on buy the same heheh
hazed
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I remember when the CH vs TM wars raged even worse than the AH vs WB debates we see these days (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Call the thread police. This belongs in another area. Seems like it deals with hardware. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Mav
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That's funny I bought a Suncom F-15 and it blows bigtime with spiking, the spring tension is not smooth at all. I luv TM Topgun even with those pots at least the spring tension gave nice smooth inputs. The world is a funny place.
Mav13 you going to call yourself?
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 01-03-2001).]
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Well I would tell ya to try a logitech stick but if you dont want to know how they feel you can stick a steak knife up your bellybutton and try to fly with it. thats the emotion i feel when i use mine anyway... ANYONE WANA SELL A GOOD JOYSTICK!?
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Soon... http://flightsim.thrustmaster.com/articles/read.php3?id=141 (http://flightsim.thrustmaster.com/articles/read.php3?id=141)
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Love my CombatStick USB. There is not a more precise gaming instrument. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
Well I would tell ya to try a logitech stick but if you dont want to know how they feel you can stick a steak knife up your bellybutton and try to fly with it. thats the emotion i feel when i use mine anyway... ANYONE WANA SELL A GOOD JOYSTICK!?
Seriously dude...how old are you?
-Smut
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When I bought my CH Fighterstick, I had been a TM user.
As most of you know TM sticks feel like they use tractor trailer leaf springs for joystick springs, while CH is the exact opposite.
It took me a while to adapt, but once I got use to it, I would never buy another stick than CH.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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I had a MckeySoft Sideswiper 3d Blo that died and I bought all CH gear based on Vermillions recomendations a couple of years ago. I've enjoyed the blazes out of it.
With the CH Pro Peds, Pro Thott and F16 Fighterstick I have a very, very nice hotas setup.
I even have a CH FFX (for the day when we get FFback) and CH USB Gamestick 3D as backups.
Sticks are like sims/games. It will always take some adjustment going from one brand to another. But if you can find what pleases you most then stick with it! Sorry the O-ring rig to provide heavier resistance didn't help much. You're the first to not like that trick (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
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It is all personal taste guys....
I am flying with <don't laugh> a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D pro...
I have a Saitek X type J/Stick and Throttle with some Rudder peddles siting in my cupboard. But to be honest this is much more nice to fly with. I love it.
It's tight, strong, heavy and totally amazing. The throttle is crap of course but I live with it. I have not bought a better stick.... Well actually I didn't buy it I traded it with a mate for a crappy Saitek Game pad but heY!
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I have a Saitek X36 combo (USB). I switched from a very old F-16 figthterstick, since I could not find a fix for the chipset issue that made them unusable with fast motherboards (basically, you can not program buttons).
I find F-16 a LOT more sensitive and nice to fly with, and I would buy another one, but the price tag on X36 is unbeatable. Overall, quality is better with F-16, but Saitek gear is not particularly bad.
Just my € 0.02
Pepe
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I fly with M$ Precision Pro USB and I dont have one single bad word to say about it..
Well, except for the secondary fire button which I'd prefer to be located on the thumb rest not aside the 8-way hat switch..
The stick feel is very light, but thats exactly how I like it - and there are no stick spikes at all due to the optical 'pots'..
I never regreted paying $70 for it (yeah costs a squeak in finland) even though its a M$ product which made me think twice about buiying it.
So, I think choosing a stick is a matter of taste.. Try different sticks out in the store and make your decision using your own brain.
- MrSiD
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As per recommendation on the AH board I purchased a refurbished x36 from Saitek. $40, and the only thing wrong with it is that it has scuff marks on the sides, making it not able to b e sold to a regular consumer. For a $60 discount, this was defintely worth it. Programming it is tough, and I still don't know what to do with all the extra buttons but it's 1000x easier then using my Logitech with the twisty handle.. Just have to get some rudder pedals one of these days and I'll be all set.
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When I first started sims 3 or 4 years ago I didn't know what stick to buy, and I figured I couldn't go wrong with a stick from a big company. So I bought an MS Sidewinder 3d pro. I was very hard on it and eventually broke it. I called MS and they immediately sent me a new one with no quibbling. (didn't even have to send the broken stick back) I keep that replacement for backup. I then bought a MS Sidewinder PPro USB which I've been using ever since. It's a fine stick, very accurate, and a dream to set up. I can't figure out why people seem to look down their noses at this "twisty" stick. I never have to recalibrate. I don't know what "pots" are. I don't know what "spikes" are. And I know if I ever do have a problem, a single phone call will have a hassle free quick replacement on the way. It's really been trouble free, and I'd recommend it to anyone. Getting used to the twist rudder is easy. I'm pretty happy with it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Gunthr
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"I was very hard on it and eventually broke it. I called MS and they immediately sent me a new one with no quibbling"
The reason I dislike MS stuff so much was I had the opposite experience. Not that the stick is an All-In-One type with a twisty handle. My stick died sitting on the desktop barely used after 4 mos and they refused to honour the warranty because it had been discontinued. It took me two months and only after getting a hold of a manager did they finally send me a "demo - not for resale" Precision Pro in return. I gave it to my brother for Christmas, bought CH gear and swore to never use MS stuff unless (Like Windows) I absolutely had to.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Pepino:
I have a Saitek X36 combo (USB). I switched from a very old F-16 figthterstick, since I could not find a fix for the chipset issue that made them unusable with fast motherboards (basically, you can not program buttons).
I find F-16 a LOT more sensitive and nice to fly with, and I would buy another one, but the price tag on X36 is unbeatable. Overall, quality is better with F-16, but Saitek gear is not particularly bad.
Just my € 0.02
Pepe
I agree 100% with this assessment, and I've been very happy with my X36 combo, it certainly has helped me in ATA combat. No more micro-spikes! (USB Baby, only way to go!)
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(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripanim.gif)
~Death Rattlers~
Member of 'MAG-33' (Click here) (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
Click here for interviews with other Aces High Squadrons (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/SPOTLIGHT1.html)
If you cannot do something well,
learn to enjoy doing it poorly!
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Twisty stick causes gamer Carpal Tunnel Syndrome... Next Oprah!
I find the twisty stick so unprecise (as a rudder) as to be real annoying. I also use an MS SW Ppro USB, but now I use pedals with it. If you've never had pedals.. you'll be amazed. I use TM Supersport racing pedals, which at the time I purchased was $39 USD with a wheel!
AKskurj
[This message has been edited by SKurj (edited 01-04-2001).]
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Half of my requirements which I forgot to mention was that I like to at least somewhat feel like I'm flying a WW2 bird. If all it takes to move the stick around is your pinky then it doesn't feel like I'm flying. If there's a good amount of pressure there and my arm gets tired then that just makes it all the more realistic. Flying with the CH believe it or not actually CHANGED my feeling fo the game! Suddenly it felt more like an arcade shootemup game because I was using this light touch precision "gamestick." Suddenly the feeling of trying to pull my La5 out of a 500mph dive felt, well..arcadish.. just use my finger to pull back on the CH stick.
I dunno, some talk about the precision.. and lining up the target with a little subtle push here and a little pull there... I'm not so sure WW2 combat was this easy where they could put one finger on the stick and "precisely" line up their target with little correction here and there. I've pulled around on a few of the warbird sticks while they weren't flying and I couldn't imagine the difficulty and heaviness of the stick when there's air travelling over the surfaces. I doubt they were easing the stick around.
Anyway, that's why the CH stick made it feel arcadish. At least for now the Suncom is the only stick on the market that has decent resistance. I think most are easy to pull because to make a real tuff pull like with the TM line you would have to actualy put some time and resources into making a stick that won't break under the pressure. Don't eat what they are feeding you! You all are being forcefed these arcadish joysticks that sell to the masses!
Enuff rambling. I still can't see what makes the CH stick worth $80 new. It's certainly not in the materials.
fscott
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Well, I both agree and disagree with you, fscott.
I used a Talon for all of my flying until I got heavily into WB, and wanted to have a rudder on the stick. This led me from an MS-Sidewinder joystick, to a Saitek X36 combo(blechy POS!) and finally to the CH line of products. While I definately prefer the feel of the Talon, there has yet to be a full HOTAS setup easier to setup and more stable than the CH Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals/Janes Combatstick.
So, I sacrifice the feel for the ease of use and the reliability. Can't wait for the USB Pro Throttle to show up so I can re-buy my setup in USB! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Attn: Skurj
I tried asking in another forum about setup configs for the twisty stick/ no pedals, but got answers that basically said: "get peds". So, Ill try another tack. Are the peds you are using with the MSPP run thru the gameport? And if so, did you have any trouble setting them up or with spiking?
Thanks,
kidcol
VMF111
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Another thing about Talons: Suncom the company is GREAT about support for bad pots and shorted controls, porked wires, etc. You box it up, ship it back, and they send you a new one. Same with throttles.
Now, I've got two of each, and if one goes bad, I have a backup to rotate to while one is in the repair loop.
Suncom has a USB stick, but not a USB throttle; it seems the multicontroller thing is really stumping them, and they were supposed to have one out this time LAST YEAR. No mention on their site at all whether it's close, rumored, cancelled, whatever. It's bumming me out, because I want to go ALL USB soon, and I'm wanting to stay with Suncom. But eventually, I'll tire of waiting and in that case, I'll go all CH. Their products are also pretty solid.
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Originally posted by SKurj:
Twisty stick causes gamer Carpal Tunnel Syndrome... Next Oprah!
I use TM Supersport racing pedals, which at the time I purchased was $39 USD with a wheel!
AKskurj
[This message has been edited by SKurj (edited 01-04-2001).]
Skurj,
I do have carpal Tunnel flare up's from years of working punching keyboards and typewriters...you said u use a racing set? I've never asked but didn't know if a set of racing style pedals would do a very good job.
I don't really care for all the sliding, toe brake style features..I just want something that I don't have to use my wrist with.
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Wingnut
Luftjagerkorps
(http://www.facelink.com/edit/raw/rawimage/27/1444127.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 01-04-2001).]
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Well, this only works in games which can support multiple controllers and those which can support both USB and gameport controllers at the same time. I've used this setup with SBK, CFS2, and Aces High. It doesn't work in games like Aw3, Redbaron2, Crimson skies.
I simply have the wheel installed per instructions that came with it. Its a thrustmaster supersport, hooked up to the gameport of my soundcard (Awe64 value). The stick is just hooked up USB.
The pedals are configureable to use Single or dual axis. Single is all thats neccessary for rudder anyways. I haven't noticed any spiking at all with my setup.
The only problem I had when I originally signed on to Aces for my 2 week trial, was that the pedal axis was reversed. At the time there was no "reverse axis" option in calibration. I have got used to "pushing" the nose of the aircraft. When I push the right pedal it pushes the nose left. Now you can reverse the axis such that it is no longer a problem.
The pedals that came with this wheel are as good or better than most I've seen with cheap racing sets. They don't have a huge amount of travel, and they are much closer together than your typical rudder pedals.
Huge improvement over twisty stix no matter how you look at it tho.
I guess the only downside to this setup, is what if you want to go play Crimson skies fer abit. Well, all I do is remove the wheel in control panel, gaming options, and play. When I want to go back to Aces, I just add the TM wheel setup again. With the TM the wheel MUST be device #1 or it won't owrk, but thats a minor detail.
Hope this helps
AKskurj
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I have the same stick Betown and I love it.
I use the SW pro with CH throttle and peddles.
I tried the x36 when it first came out but the pots went out within 2 months and I couldn't get them to replace them. I ended up with 2 sets of them and they are both on the shelve with bad pots.
After hearing some of you guys talking about the new USB x36 I decided to buy another set and now IT'S on the shelf. Not bad pots but I just didn't like the feel of it.
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check this out !!
first link shows the modes i made to my joystick. if you want to see the complete set of pictures on the simulator i've been working on go to the second link.
http://rwy0.tripod.com/ahfilms/simm6.html (http://rwy0.tripod.com/ahfilms/simm6.html)
http://home.midsouth.rr.com/rwysairwar/ (http://home.midsouth.rr.com/rwysairwar/)
RWY out!!
(http://home.midsouth.rr.com/rwysairwar/13tas.gif)
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RWY that rocks buddy no wonder you kicked my butt in TA.!!!
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RWY that rocks buddy no wonder you kicked my butt in TA.!!!
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Hey Skurj I thought I was the only one silly enuff to use driving pedals to fly with. Before I got the Sidewinder Ff twisty stick I used my TM T-2 pedals and had to teach myself the 'kick the nose over' routine. As for carpal tunnel, my wrist now cracks all the time from months of flying the Snipe in Red Baron. Had to give up the Snipe because of it and have made Aces my primary sim. I find I don't use rudders as heavily as I did in the WW1 sims. I have a set of CH pedals SWulfe sent me and a set of TM pedals DJV sent me so's I can trade off from my twisty stick, but I am so used to the Sidewinder set up that I always go back to it.
AKSneaky (AKSneeky)
Brigade Operations Officer
Arabian Knights
(http://www.aksquad.com/logos/sneakysm.jpg)
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I have a x36. If your useing a non digital stick your the guy i want to fight.
Listen you say you still have that usb ch rig? Go take it out of the box. You will be looking into usb again. Save yourself some time.
I also use ch pro rudders throttle and gamecard.
I find litle to gain useing usb for these devices. I am sure that in some point in the future i will upgrade these to usb too.
Why usb? well you can set up the j stick sliders to 100%. Deadband and dampner to 0.
Why is this a adv? Well your plane will roll faster. You do not get any dont move controls messages unless you go realy wild with the stick.
If you want another usb stick get it. Going non digital will lose you many a fight.
EYE