Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on July 07, 2004, 11:48:19 AM
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His latest appointee believes women should be subservient and that rape can't cause pregnancy.
http://166.70.44.66/2004/Jul/07072004/utah/181590.asp
Comments?
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What a surprise. :rolleyes:
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"It gets pretty bad around here" when lawmakers condemn Holmes for quoting the teachings of St. Paul the Apostle."
Exactly
Whatever happened to religious tolerance? Looks like a smear campaign by anti-christian bigots.
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hmm
a paper he wrote about "his beliefs" for his church flyer is the source of this scuttlebutt?
I think he can separate his "personal beliefs" from his "political ones"
where have I heard that before? LOL
I think the fact he is anti abortion is the real issue - of course these are just his "personal beliefs" - LOL
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
...Whatever happened to religious tolerance? Looks like a smear campaign by anti-christian bigots.
It is fine to practice whatever set of beliefs you wish. That is not the issue.
The issue is one of power. I do not want desicions made with reguard to laws and their interpretations based on a specific religious preference or outlook.
It seems to me someone who holds the views espoused in the above article would have difficulty leaving his "beliefs" at home.
It, imo, smacks of a precursor to some quasi-taliban type of crap.
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Originally posted by Eagler
I think the fact he is anti abortion is the real issue - of course these are just his "personal beliefs" - LOL
It's perfectly okay for Holmes to be anti-abortion just as long as he's not anti-choice as well. ;)
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Originally posted by Furious
I do not want desicions made with reguard to laws and their interpretations based on a specific religious preference or outlook.
As opposed to someone who makes up their morals as they go along, choosing whatever values are politically expedient or trendy?
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's perfectly okay for Holmes to be anti-abortion just as long as he's not anti-choice as well. ;)
Thank You, Candidate Kerry. :D
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Thank You, Candidate Kerry. :D
I know a few people that are personally against abortion, but they do not feel that it's the governments place to make this sort of decision. They are therefore, pro-choice.
If you feel that abortions are morally repugnant, don't get one. The current pro-choice legislation allows this freedom.
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I think that description fits me pretty well. But I strongly feel feel abortions should be limited to the early stages of pregnancy with excetions to serious health concerns for the mother.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I know a few people that are personally against abortion, but they do not feel that it's the governments place to make this sort of decision. They are therefore, pro-choice.
If you feel that abortions are morally repugnant, don't get one. The current pro-choice legislation allows this freedom.
Sweet. At what age do you suggest we disallow mothers from "choosing" to murder their offspring? Provide a basis for your "choice". Or does your "choice" policy apply to all homicides? :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
I know a few people that are personally against abortion, but they do not feel that it's the governments place to make this sort of decision. They are therefore, pro-choice.
If you feel that abortions are morally repugnant, don't get one. The current pro-choice legislation allows this freedom.
zactly:aok
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it is just another form of birth control - right?
as long as many do not see it as anything other than that, the murder will continue and our consciousness will remain in the dark ages ...
anyone truly believe "pro-choice" is enlightened thinking or just the pc way to think/act .. sad really
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Sounds like a hand picked Bush appointee. I seem to remember GWB running "I'm a uniter not a divider" as his campaign slogan in 2000.
Glad he didn't flip-flop. :rolleyes:
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Kerry eats babies!
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anyone truly believe "anti-choice" is enlightened thinking or just the moral way to think/act .. sad really
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Sweet. At what age do you suggest we disallow mothers from "choosing" to murder their offspring?
Birth.
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Originally posted by Eagler
it is just another form of birth control - right?
Right.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Right.
Wrong
it's murder
"Choice" for what SOB murder the unborn?
she/he/they had a choice- it was when she was spreading her legs...
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Originally posted by Eagler
Wrong
it's murder
Says you.
The law isn't on your side.
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But God talks to Bush, Sandman! God tells him who to nominate to get his agenda thru.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Says you.
The law isn't on your side.
The law is wrong and it can be changed.
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Originally posted by mietla
The law is wrong and it can be changed.
The law was changed. :p
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Originally posted by rpm371
But God talks to Bush, Sandman! God tells him who to nominate to get his agenda thru.
and who is guiding the dumbacrats? what "voice" do they follow?
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Her choice to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Call it whatever you want.
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Originally posted by Eagler
she/he/they had a choice- it was when she was spreading her legs...
How much of a choice do ignorant people have? As a result of the agendas of the same people who fight abortion rights, there's no effective sex ed in US schools in many states because of the outcry against teaching contraception. You and your ilk are setting these women up to fail and essentially trying to force them into unwanted motherhood by first 1. Denying them the education about how to avoid pregnancy and then 2. Denying them the tools to end pregnancy.
If you truly wanted to prevent women from aborting fetuses, then your crowd would wholeheartedly support strong education of contraception. But you don't, so the hypocrasy light is lit.
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I support airborne spraying of contraceptives in areas with income levels below a certain threshold.
"Call in an air strike!"
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They already are: chem-trails.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
How much of a choice do ignorant people have? As a result of the agendas of the same people who fight abortion rights, there's no effective sex ed in US schools in many states because of the outcry against teaching contraception. You and your ilk are setting these women up to fail and essentially trying to force them into unwanted motherhood by first 1. Denying them the education about how to avoid pregnancy and then 2. Denying them the tools to end pregnancy.
If you truly wanted to prevent women from aborting fetuses, then your crowd would wholeheartedly support strong education of contraception. But you don't, so the hypocrasy light is lit.
LOL - I think the most uneducated dumbacrat <- and that is pretty uneducated, knows where a baby comes from - and it ain't a stork
you guys make an excuse for everything - TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for once - tell her to keep her legs close unless she is ready for parenthood - simple really
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I support airborne spraying of contraceptives in areas with income levels below a certain threshold.
"Call in an air strike!"
I like it!
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Originally posted by Eagler
she/he/they had a choice- it was when she was spreading her legs...
You're so wise, I'm astounded
Don't change you're an example for the young reader.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I support airborne spraying of contraceptives in areas with income levels below a certain threshold.
"Call in an air strike!"
Say goodbye to the midwest and the south.
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Originally posted by Sandman
The law was changed. :p
Sure, and it can be changed again. That why the fight over nominations of judges is so fierce.
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soon to be seen in a Eaglers neighborhood...
all women wearing Burkaa's.....with men leading em like dogs.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I support airborne spraying of contraceptives in areas with income levels below a certain threshold.
"Call in an air strike!"
Eugenics has gotten a bad rap... Time for it again!
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Originally posted by SLO
soon to be seen in a Eaglers neighborhood...
all women wearing Burkaa's.....with men leading em like dogs.
slight jump huh? no middle ground
abortions or burkaa's - yes, i can see the Kerry ad now - LOL
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I get sick when I hear about this whole "prochoice" Do I as a man have the option to off my 2 year old if he's retarded or I cant afford to feed him anymore? NO! What's the difference in doing it in the womb?
A woman has a choice.....she has the choice to keep her legs crossed if she doesnt want to be pregnant. She has a choice to be on the pill or make a guy wear a condom......if that doesn work you pay they piper.
DO you go to a casino in vegas and ask for your money back after a slot machine takes it all?
sandman the law once said you can own as many negros as you want.
Just cause its a law does it make it right?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
IA woman has a choice.....she has the choice to keep her legs crossed if she doesnt want to be pregnant. She has a choice to be on the pill or make a guy wear a condom......if that doesn work you pay they piper.
What about rape and incest?
Oh wait, this new Judge doesn't think women can get pregnant that way.
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Originally posted by -MZ-
What about rape and incest?
Oh wait, this new Judge doesn't think women can get pregnant that way.
show me an accurate percentage of abortions givng for this reason. Something tells me it ain't worth looking up .... it is birth control for the po and those that don't wanna be bothered with the "product" of their actions ... as long as it is accepted as a "choice" the murdering will continue and the Light will stay dim for all of us...
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I love how it's become all the women's fault.... "If she keeps her legs closed there won't be a problem."
Oh my god... what world are you living in?
Have any of you guys had sex with single women? (don't answer, it was rhetorical as well as goofy ). There's a boatload of uhm, nuance, pressure, jockeying for position etc. If things go right the chick won't know what hit her and no I am not talkin' rape. :D
So it takes two to tango... and I'd venture to guess that guys do more of the tangoing, so to speak.
And if all the single girls suddenly decided to cross their legs, there'd be a crisis such that the economy would collapse and the world would plummet into a global war of catastrophic porportions.
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Originally posted by Eagler
and who is guiding the dumbacrats? what "voice" do they follow?
It's a voice that you don't hear.;)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
...Just cause its a law does it make it right?
In this case, yes.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Just cause its a law does it make it right?
The law was wrong before. Now, it's right.
Of course, we could go back 80+ years and revoke the 19th Amendment. Then, you'll probably have a good chance at defeating Roe v. Wade.
Roe v. Wade means less government involvment in your personal life. Funny, that the left has to champion it.
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Originally posted by Eagler
show me an accurate percentage of abortions givng for this reason. Something tells me it ain't worth looking up .... it is birth control for the po and those that don't wanna be bothered with the "product" of their actions ... as long as it is accepted as a "choice" the murdering will continue and the Light will stay dim for all of us...
I don't think you get it, the judge in question said that he doesn't believe you can get pregnant when you are raped. He specifically said that getting pregnant when raped was 'as likely as snowfall in Miami'.
Do you really want someone that dumb in this position of power? Or do your politics (that he happens to agree with you) blind you to this massive flaw?
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Originally posted by Nash
I love how it's become all the women's fault.... "If she keeps her legs closed there won't be a problem."
isn't the whole other side of this argument about the woman's right to choose??????
Oh my god... what world are you living in?
I pose to you the same question. A woman does have a choice just like I do....not to have sex.
The law was wrong before. Now, it's right.
Of course, we could go back 80+ years and revoke the 19th Amendment. Then, you'll probably have a good chance at defeating Roe v. Wade.
Roe v. Wade means less government involvment in your personal life. Funny, that the left has to champion it.
when it comes to murdering unborn children because it is an inconvenience....yes I want the govt to intervien ban this.
this should not be about a womans choice weather to stay pregnant but her choice not to become pregnant
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
isn't the whole other side of this argument about the woman's right to choose??????
Right, we knock them up and in a massive amount of cases beat a hasty retreat and get the hell out of the situation. Leaving knocked up girl to find and pay for a lawyer and try for a paternity test in order try for garnished wages so that she doesn't have to raise the kid on her own. How many single mothers are there? It turns out alotta lotta guys don't want babies either... but it's the girls that are killing them eh?
If we don't want them, why should they?
I pose to you the same question. A woman does have a choice just like I do....not to have sex.
oookay.....
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Originally posted by Nash
I love how it's become all the women's fault.... "If she keeps her legs closed there won't be a problem."
Oh my god... what world are you living in?
Have any of you guys had sex with single women? (don't answer, it was rhetorical as well as goofy ). There's a boatload of uhm, nuance, pressure, jockeying for position etc. If things go right the chick won't know what hit her and no I am not talkin' rape. :D
So it takes two to tango... and I'd venture to guess that guys do more of the tangoing, so to speak.
And if all the single girls suddenly decided to cross their legs, there'd be a crisis such that the economy would collapse and the world would plummet into a global war of catastrophic porportions.
Wow Nash, you solved the whole thing. Clearly abortion is the only answer for birth control!
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Not birth control.
Unwanted pregnancy.
And I aint zactly 100 percent with the whole program... at all....
But blaming women for this crap just because they're the ones who actually have to go through it personally is dead wrong.
Clinical studies would show that a guy was involved.
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Originally posted by Nash
Right, we knock them up and in a massive amount of cases beat a hasty retreat and get the hell out of the situation. Leaving knocked up girl to find and pay for a lawyer and try for a paternity test in order try for garnished wages so that she doesn't have to raise the kid on her own. How many single mothers are there? It turns out alotta lotta guys don't want babies either... but it's the girls that are killing them eh?
If we don't want them, why should they?
I pose to you the same question. A woman does have a choice just like I do....not to have sex.
oookay.....
well why did she have sex with this guy and not use protections (I do realize accidents do happen). Now because of her bad judgment she has to commit murder and kill a helpless baby vrs. having it and putting it up for adoption.
abortion is just another way to avoid personal responsabilities.
I'm not just talking out my bellybutton here me and my wife were not married when she got pregnant. I stuck around and eventually we got hitched. It doesnt allways happen that way but abortions arent just a down and out single soon to be mom type thing.
as far as blame....a woman has TOTAL control weather or not she gets an abortion.....a guy has NO SAY IN THE PROCSESS.....so yes it's on the woman.
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Ok, then Gunslinger, do you agree that teaching proper contraception is a good idea because it will prevent those pregnancies in the first place? Same question to Eagler. I suspect your answers will be no and I wonder in advance at the hypocrasy.
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"The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round."
Listen Dr. Ruth Westheimer wannabes. JOC's sheep are voting for Kerry.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Ok, then Gunslinger, do you agree that teaching proper contraception is a good idea because it will prevent those pregnancies in the first place? Same question to Eagler. I suspect your answers will be no and I wonder in advance at the hypocrasy.
The problem is that sex has been stripped down to the level of taking a morning dump ... it is nothing special, means nothing special, feels real good so do it, maybe twice ... worry about the repercussions of your actions later ...you can always get an abortion like Sally did, no big deal ...
HS kids laugh at sex ed, maybe start in 1st grade, so they can go at it even younger?
I don't think the problem lies in teaching someone "where a baby comes from", I think the problem lies in "if it feels good - do it" mentality of the me me first world we have created through our liberal leanings. Teach them RESPONSIBILTY for ones actions & RESPECT for all others, the rest will follow.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Ok, then Gunslinger, do you agree that teaching proper contraception is a good idea because it will prevent those pregnancies in the first place? Same question to Eagler. I suspect your answers will be no and I wonder in advance at the hypocrasy.
YES.....I think that mostly falls on the PARENTS but YES the kids are gonna learn or not learn this stuff in school. If a parent has a problem with it because of religious concerns than their kid should be going to a different school or be excused or somthing.
On the same note I also beleive schools should teach the same thing I was taught and that is that ABSTINENCE WORKS 100%. It may be waisted breath on most kids but oh well. I agree w/ eagler that kids now a days look at sex and even extreme forms of it as no big deal. When I hear that girls are having anal sex in order to "remain a virgin" I think were was I??????...no jk....I think they are messed up cause its still sex.
when I hear storys of 14 year old kids having gang bangs and group sex I just sit here and think were have we gone?
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Sooner or later everyone in your generation will begin to sound just like your parents.
Nothing new here. Move along... nostalgia never dies.
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That's the weird thing about it Sandman....
I keep thinking (about any number of things) "okay.... that's the limit... the absolute farthest reaches of the limits of the bounds.... the apex of the vortext of the hub of absurdity has been hit head on.... there is nowhere to go from here."
I mean... there are only so many orifices. And ways to penetrate them.
Next thing ya know it's gonna be about anti-gravity sling-shot screwing or something.
It blows my mind and it is awesome.
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Make it mandatory for all males over 18 and not married to have a vasectomy or better yet make sex without a condom a felony offence for males.
That would solve it, right Funk?
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Originally posted by Torque
Make it mandatory for all males over 18 and not married to have a vasectomy or better yet make sex without a condom a felony offence for males.
That would solve it, right Funk?
no, it's the females that make the babies, you'd have to stop them instead.
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The question was posed, but conveniently dodged...
Should abortion be legal in the case of incest? Rape? Handicap?
-edited for clarity-
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Originally posted by SOB
The question was posed, but conveniently dodged...
Is it abortion OK in the case of incest? Rape?
well it depends on how you define "okay" and on how you define human life.
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lemme think about it...
okay wait... it's coming to me... there it is.... okay... yup...
Got it!
Penalize the rapist with death but keep the kid cuz life is sacred.
nailed it?
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Originally posted by NUKE
well it depends on how you define "okay" and on how you define human life.
By "OK" I mean should it be legal.
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John Kerry's wife once decided on an abortion because doctors said her baby was "deformed" and she didn't want to give birth to a "monster" according to her. Pretty sweet!
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Originally posted by Nash
nailed it?
IN
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Originally posted by SOB
By "OK" I mean should it be legal.
legal and OK are two entirely different things. Anything can be legal.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
IN
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?
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Originally posted by Nash
lemme think about it...
okay wait... it's coming to me... there it is.... okay... yup...
Got it!
Penalize the rapist with death but keep the kid cuz life is sacred.
nailed it?
nice, but you didn't answer the question regarding the abortion. An inocent life verses a criminal's...... and rapists aren't executed for only rape.
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Originally posted by NUKE
legal and OK are two entirely different things. Anything can be legal.
It's OK if you are unable to answer the question. Feel free to continue arguing semantics.
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oh yeah...
okay, fer sure absolutely... abort the rapist demon spawn.
And it aint an innocent life... it's a freakin zygote or whatever.
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Originally posted by SOB
It's OK if you are unable to answer the question. Feel free to continue arguing semantics.
I will answer. It is now legal to abort a baby for any reason up to a certain point, so there is the answer to your rhetorical question.
I answered...it is legal.
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I hope you're drunk, 'cause it'd be a pity if you're this stupid.
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Then of course we have the double standard of murder being charged againt people who kill a womans fetus who would otherwise legally be elligible for abortion if the mother chose.
So yeah, "legal" and "OK" are pretty different in my uneducated opinon.
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Next thing ya know it will be illegal to get circumcized...
... like it will horrify the little swimmers and zap their will, spirit, and ability to compete with an appropriate level of zest.
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Did he just compare a foreskin to a fetus?
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Originally posted by SOB
I hope you're drunk, 'cause it'd be a pity if you're this stupid.
SOB???? of course Im drunk, that's what I do!
But, you said: By "OK" I mean should it be legal.
YOU defined what you meant by "OK" and I simply pointed out that, by your definition of "OK" (i.e. Legal) that the current laws state that it is legal/ok to abort a baby, regardless but not exlusive of rape or incest.
SOB, might I ask what you felt was stupid about my answer?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Did he just compare a foreskin to a fetus?
Wow...
...
I guess I did!
heh
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Did he just compare a foreskin to a fetus?
must be a big foreskin
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
must be a big foreskin
maybe we should call it a fiveskin?
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But then, I didn't ask if it was legal, I was soliciting opinions on whether or not folks feel it SHOULD be legal. And I didn't define OK as legal. I defined it as "should it be legal", in the context of my post.
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...and if you're drunk, why the **** aren't you sharing?!
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Originally posted by SOB
But then, I didn't ask if it was legal, I was soliciting opinions on whether or not folks feel it SHOULD be legal. And I didn't define OK as legal. I defined it as "should it be legal", in the context of my post.
Well that finally clears things up I guess.
I do not feel it is OK to kill any inocent human life.
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FORESKIN IS TEH MURDER!
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Originally posted by NUKE
Well that finally clears things up I guess.
I do not feel it is OK to kill any inocent human life.
who decides what 'innocent' is?
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
who decides what 'innocent' is?
well let's see..... a court maybe? Last I heard, no fetuses where able to commit crimes or stand trial even.
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Originally posted by NUKE
well let's see..... a court maybe? Last I heard, no fetuses where able to commit crimes or stand trial even.
mabye in Texas:lol
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Originally posted by NUKE
well let's see..... a court maybe? Last I heard, no fetuses where able to commit crimes or stand trial even.
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I do not feel it is OK to kill any inocent human life.
Life.... fetus.... life.... fetus...
Which brings me to an original question I don't think has ever been asked ever...
Is a fetus a life? When does life begin?
Oh noooooo!
(in the immortal words of Karaya) The wheels of the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
mabye in Texas:lol
I don't undertand what you mean. Can you clarify?
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Originally posted by Nash
Life.... fetus.... life.... fetus...
Which brings me to an original question I don't think has ever been asked ever...
Is a fetus a life? When does life begin?
Oh noooooo!
(in the immortal words of Karaya) The wheels of the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...
Nash, seems that y we better define it without the double standards. In most many states ( dont know exactly) you can be charged with murder for being responsible for the death of a fetus, other than abortion.
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Originally posted by NUKE
In most many states ( dont know exactly) you can be charged with murder for being responsible for the death of a fetus, other than abortion.
Okay I'm just gonna blurt this out without thinking it through (as is my style, man) but in that case, if a pregnant woman commits a murder can they drag they baby to jail when it comes out?
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Originally posted by Nash
Okay I'm just gonna blurt this out without thinking it through (as is my style, man) but in that case, if a pregnant woman commits a murder can they drag they baby to jail when it comes out?
Again, how can a fetus be put on trial? What control does it have over the mother's action?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Then of course we have the double standard of murder being charged againt people who kill a womans fetus who would otherwise legally be elligible for abortion if the mother chose.
It's not a double standard. The womb belongs to the woman. She gets to decide if the fetus lives or dies. If she wants to have the baby and someone else kills it, they can be charged for murder (and rightly so, IMHO). If she wishes to terminate, it is within her rights (and none other) to do so.
I'm perfectly happy with leaving this decision up to the people that actually possess a womb (and then only their own).
Of course, this will no doubt bring on the whine, "What about the father?" Suck it up... life's hard, wear a helmet and find a woman that will honor your wishes as equally as her own.
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Originally posted by NUKE
What control does it have over the mother's action?
fetuses have a lot of control over their host's actions.
some chicks simply go berserk.
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's not a double standard. The womb belongs to the woman. She gets to decide if the fetus lives or dies. If she wants to have the baby and someone else kills it, they can be charged for murder (and rightly so, IMHO). If she wishes to terminate, it is within her rights (and none other) to do so.
I'm perfectly happy with leaving this decision up to the people that actually possess a womb (and then only their own).
Of course, this will no doubt bring on the whine, "What about the father?" Suck it up... life's hard, wear a helmet and find a woman that will honor your wishes as equally as her own.
sandman, I totally dissagree with that premise. If a fetus is considered a life as a fetus in control of the mother, what is different about a single mother in control of a born baby?
Either a fetus is a human life or it is not..... no middle.
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Originally posted by NUKE
sandman, I totally dissagree with that premise. If a fetus is considered a life as a fetus in control of the mother, what is different about a single mother in control of a born baby?
Either a fetus is a human life or it is not..... no middle.
Disagree all you like, but the law is with me, I think. Once they're born, the rules change.
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TEH END!
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Originally posted by Nash
TEH END!
Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all week. :D
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Originally posted by Sandman
Disagree all you like, but the law is with me, I think.
Yes, we've already agreed on that, but the discussion is not about what's legal but about what's moral, and thus whether the law should change.
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TEH BEGINNING AGAIN!
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Originally posted by Sandman
Disagree all you like, but the law is with me, I think. Once they're born, the rules change.
but the law was never the question here. Anything can be legal.
And actually, you believe that the legal status of a fetus ( life or not a life) is determined by the mother, not by law.
The law does have a double standard on the issue. On the one hand, a fetus is not a life (mom's choice to decide) and on the other hand a fetus is a life.... you cannot have it both ways and not be a hypocrite.
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Originally posted by mietla
Yes, we've already agreed on that, but the discussion is not about what's legal but about what's moral, and thus whether the law should change.
I firmly believe that morality should not be legislated.
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It's funny too me..... the law takes two completely opposite positions on the issue.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I firmly believe that morality should not be legislated.
It's not morality that is the issue. The issue is the definion of life.
If you believe a fetus is a life in one case ( can be charged with murder) yet in another case, the mother can kill that same life at her whim.....then you have not come to grips with the issue.
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Originally posted by NUKE
...a fetus is a life in one case ( can be charged with murder) ...
lol.... funny to see some of the more bizarre stuff I hurl actually stick. :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
but the law was never the question here. Anything can be legal.
And actually, you believe that the legal status of a fetus ( life or not a life) is determined by the mother, not by law.
The law does have a double standard on the issue. On the one hand, a fetus is not a life (mom's choice to decide) and on the other hand a fetus is a life.... you cannot have it both ways and not be a hypocrite.
That's because you're tripping over the "is it life or not" argument.
Of course it's life. The question is, "When does the fetus become a person and have rights of its own?" Some argue conception, but that's a slippery slope if ever. Birth is a much more practical milestone.
I believe the argument for convicting someone of killing a fetus isn't simply about the fetus. It's about violating the mother's right to have the baby.
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lol Nash.... I get it.... I should have worded that differently
I am still not drunk enought to be unable to tie in your fetus causing mommy to go nutz comment
:)
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Originally posted by NUKE
It's not morality that is the issue. The issue is the definion of life.
If you believe a fetus is a life in one case ( can be charged with murder) yet in another case, the mother can kill that same life at her whim.....then you have not come to grips with the issue.
The fetus is a living parasite. Any right to life it might enjoy is derived from its host.
Simple as that.
If you think it immoral to kill it, don't. I think it's immoral to try and tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their own body.
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's because you're tripping over the "is it life or not" argument.
Of course it's life. The question is, "When does the fetus become a person and have rights of its own?" Some argue conception, but that's a slippery slope if ever. Birth is a much more practical milestone.
I believe the argument for convicting someone of killing a fetus isn't simply about the fetus. It's about violating the mother's right to have the baby.
Sandman, slow down. If a fetus is not a person and killing a fetus only means violating a mother's right to have a baby, then murder cannot be the charge, right? No murder took place, only some "violation" of a mothers right to have a baby.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Sandman, slow down. If a fetus is not a person and killing a fetus only means violating a mother's right to have a baby, then murder cannot be the charge, right? No murder took place, only some "violation" of a mothers right to have a baby.
You'll have to go find a lawyer. Best I can do.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'll have to go find a lawyer. Best I can do.
in other words, you can't support your argument.
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In other words, he doesn't need to.
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so we all need to get lawyers now to debate? :mad:
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One more time...
The fetus has a "right to life" if the mother says so. Once the mother has made this decision, the fetus can be murdered by an outside agent. Otherwise, it's not murder.
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Originally posted by Sandman
One more time...
The fetus has a "right to life" if the mother says so. Once the mother has made this decision, the fetus can be murdered by an outside agent. Otherwise, it's not murder.
The host holds all the cards.
LOL!
So the mother decides what is a life and not the law? I get it.
What if the mother had not decided weather or not to abort, then some guy kicked her in the gut and killed the fetus? Would that be a murder?
Maybe I need to consult a lawyer to instruct me in the use of common sense.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
His latest appointee believes women should be subservient and that rape can't cause pregnancy.
Comments?
Well first part is true. Even says so in the bible :)
second part is outright rediculous
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sandy... on the parasite theory... at what point is it not a parasite? I tend to believe that once it is capable of living without the help of the mother it is a human.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sandman
One more time...
The fetus has a "right to life" if the mother says so.
I think "the mother says so" when she spreads her legs and gives permission for the chance of fertilization to occur
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Originally posted by lazs2
sandy... on the parasite theory... at what point is it not a parasite? I tend to believe that once it is capable of living without the help of the mother it is a human.
lazs
I tend to agree.
It's worth noting that abortion rights activists were against laws making it more severe to kill a pregnant woman.
Consider...
A. A woman is injured in a crime.
B. A pregnant woman is injured in a crime and her unborn achild is killed in the process.
or.
A. A woman is killed in a crime.
B. A pregnant woman and her unborn child is killed in a crime.
Which should result in a more severe penalty?
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I am not sure but I beleive that the penalty is more severe because the people involved (mother or mother father), the family have invested emotionaly in the "parasite" and consider it their child even if it is less than full term.
In some cases it is very difficult for people to get pregnant.
There should be some standard tho. Like I said... I am not against killing people but let's not pretend that a child that can live outside the womb is a "parasite". It is the same as putting a newborn in a dumpster in my opinion. or... very near... too near for my comfort level... that stretches even my very pliable hypocracy.
lazs
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Originally posted by Sandman
I tend to agree.
It's worth noting that abortion rights activists were against laws making it more severe to kill a pregnant woman.
no crap dick tracy .. they do not want anyone to think the baby is a living feeling human being, you know, just a glob of gloo right??
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Originally posted by Sandman
One more time...
The fetus has a "right to life" if the mother says so. Once the mother has made this decision, the fetus can be murdered by an outside agent. Otherwise, it's not murder.
There isn't one of us alive today that would continue to remain alive if someone capable of deadly violence committed the willful act to end our life (as is the case in abortion). Abortion isn't simply a "choice", it is a violent (in the extreme) action.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
when I hear storys of 14 year old kids having gang bangs and ...I just sit here and think were have we gone?
...Just another night in the MA....
In response to the abstinence theory...
How many of you actually abstained from having sex until you were married? If it didn't work then what makes you think it will now?
How many of you smoke? You know it will probably kill you, and yet...well...it feels good...it calms you down...yada yada yada...
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let's see...
I turned 45 last april
my wife turned 44 last feb
our 26th wedding anniversary is Saturday 7/10
our oldest son turns 26 in Nov
do the math...
now back to comparing abortion prevention to quitting smoking - LOL
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Just for comparison... I'm 42. I've been married for 21 years. My oldest is 16.
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Abortion?
I dont know what the answer is.
I do know that your opinions , religious values , morals etc are something we can talk about till the cows come home.
But your rights to control my daughters body end at her skin.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Just for comparison... I'm 42. I've been married for 21 years. My oldest is 16.
is this a math test? :)
just showing the other side of the "abstinence theory" card is responsibility, not the ole "cut & run"
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red tail.. I had sex from about 14.. at 18 I got a girl pregnant.. we got married. That was pretty typical. real common way to handle it back then. didn't last. I still had to be responsible for my son tho and am glad I was. Smoked for 20 years and quit because I wanted to. I don't see how things were that much worse back then or how the situation has improved with all the abortion.
lazs
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Originally posted by Eagler
is this a math test? :)
just showing the other side of the "abstinence theory" card is responsibility, not the ole "cut & run"
I salute your sense of personal responsibility. You, sir, are an enviable example.
I just don't think that it should be legislated to do so.