Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: TweetyBird on July 08, 2004, 11:19:50 PM
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Any updates or leads on the stutter bug?
I'm seeing a lot of fixes and they're becomming more and more convoluted. For instance, why would reinstalling directx9 get rid of the stutters? Some one give a technical reason and what file is currupted and fixed with reinstalling directx9. Otherwise I ( and no offense intended) am dismissing it as voodoo. Same with the updated drivers. What in the old drivers could make the program stutter? I read the the fixes of the latest driver and I see NOTHING changed that could create stutter.
Are the stutters related to hard drive access? See, I really think this is the problem (hard drive access).
Edit: BTW, when I say the problem is hard drive access, I think the program should be able to access the HD for a fair amount of time without any stutter. I play DVD's all the time, that are constantly accessing the HD and DVD player, for a hell of a lot more information and they don't stutter. I think something in the program is interfering with low level HD access.
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preach on. I log onto bbs 1/2 dozen times a day HOPING for a new patch that will fix this, or some fix in bug reports/tech area.
not flying much unfort. due to screen freezes/stutters.
I hate waiting, i need my flying fix!
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I'm waiting too, sir - checking the annoucements 3 or 4 times a day also :D. It could be a toughy that takes a little time - I have no doubt they're concentrating on it. Just wondering if there are any leads yet.
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I think you are on to something with the hard drive access problem. I used to have this same problem on my laptop on AH1 when i was travelling and decided to play. Since it was only occasionally that I played on my laptop, I dismissed it as a minor concern. When I upgraded my laptops memory from 256 to 512 the studders almost went away completely. This co-incided with changing from WinME to Win XP home. I wonder if going from 1 gig of ram to 1.5 gig of ram on my desktop would help this problem. It does seem to me that the studders are much less common after my initial flight, but that they appear later on during the session. Memory Leak possibly?
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try this for grins - next time you log into AH2, look at all the planes and vehicles in the hanger . Every one of them....every different skin. Don't just jump into the game and fly - look every plane/ground vehicle selection in hanger. shouldn't take you more than 2 minutes. Start with the A20 A6m - end with the YAks
let me know here what happens. It's helped some fellow squadmates out - so much that they have no stutters after looking at the planes in the hanger.
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I almost always get a stutter if I land under these conditions.
I am at very low speed, flaps down, wheels down, riding the stall horn. I am dropping out of the sky, and just when my wheels hit the ground (it is always at the wheels touch down point), I get a pause, everything stops for about maybe a 1/4 second or so, and then I get motion back and the plane is solidly on the runway.
It doesn't seem to stutter if I hit the runway above stall speed, and the plane bounces a couple of times off the asphalt.
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No major good news yet. I've been going through some different configs and new software but I only have found one way on my box to create stutters of a disruptive magnitude. It's a stretch, but it's worth checking. Can you verify that the cache folder and its contents are not set to read only?
Part of the problem wading through these reports is that there are two different types of stutters occuring. One is sound related and the other is graphic related.
FokerFoder, your problem appears to be sound related. What sound card do you have and what level is your sound acceleration set to?
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My cache folder is set to read only?
Is that the way it should be?
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Im still getting BAD stutters its only in a furball . Very iritating. Pyro if you guys are gonna be in the office this weekend I can bring my box by there
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
My cache folder is set to read only?
Is that the way it should be?
No: it should be writable so AH2 can store things in it.
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The cache folder in AH2 was set to read only. This is not right?
I changed it, and will see if it helps.
When I change the attribute, it reverts to read only when I ckeck it again. Is this just a WinXP thing?
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Originally posted by Pei
No: it should be writable so AH2 can store things in it.
OK, so how do you go about this?
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well that would make sense, but I guess that would be a small issue, since it came from HTC as a read only file.
One of the small things that get you, if that solves it.
Kinda like troubleshooting something and realizing after you pulled all your hair out, that one piece of equiptment in the chain was turned off...too busy looking in the back of things to notice the power LED on front :)
Jackal - right click cache folder, then properties - read only shouldn't be checked by what Pyro said.
So when did my cache folder get to be read only?
was thinking it was the test patch - but realized I uninstalled all AH2 after that and reinstalled fresh.
BTW - I uncheck read-only and close it goes back to cache folder properties - still says read-only too :)
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FokerFoder, your problem appears to be sound related. What sound card do you have and what level is your sound acceleration set to?
I'll bet you are right, seems to me that just after the stutter I get the wheels screech, and then the plane is solidly on the runway. It may be the stall-horn / switch to tire screech.
The sound card is built into the computer - Realtek ACL202 SB Pro compatable.
I have a Go5200 32MB graphics card. These are all built into the laptop, a Toshiba P25 - S507. 1 GB ram, 2.8 GH Intel.
I get almost as good as framerates as in AH1 and sometimes better.
I'll check for any driver upgrades and let you know.
Luv'in AH2 :aok
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My Stutters are fixed. If you've read my other posts, you know I've been having up to 8 second screen freezes as I approach an enemy plane. I was going to wait to post an indepth analysis after a few days, but the quick of it is I reformatted my hard drive, installed several partitions, put AHII in it's own partition all by itself. The beauty of it's own partition is the ease of reformatting the partition to erase any trace of old AHII files when new versions come out.
Now my system has only the latest versions of all it's drivers, no old junk cluttering it up.
Everything is working awesome. 512 textures, the whole nine yards. I have my performance sliders set farther to the left than ever before. Sound card is set to full acceleration. The graphics are great!
NO stutters. No CTDs. Decent if not spectacular frame rates.
And I just checked, my cache file is NOT set to read only! I have no idea what it was set to before the reformat.
Intel 1.4 Ghz Celeron
Intel 440-BX mobo, 100mhz FSB, IDE Ultra 66
384 MBs RAM
Asylum Nvidia FX-5200 Ultra 128 MB AGP
SoundBlaster Live! Value
Win 98 se
20 Gig 7200 rpm HD
Dell 200 watt power supply
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>>but the quick of it is I reformatted my hard drive, installed several partitions, put AHII in it's own partition all by itself. The beauty of it's own partition is the ease of reformatting the partition to erase any trace of old AHII files when new versions come out. <<
Hope that helps them figure out the problem. But I aint doing that. Syst req lists nothing of AH needing its own hard drive partition. I'll be damned if I reformat my hard drive for patch 5 lol.
Think I'll wait for a patch that reconsiders the texture handling.
If the program is counting on it being installed on a squeaky clean blank partition, there is one hell of a design fault.
Just curious though - what file system did you use to reformat the AH partition - FAT32 or NTFS. I'm wondering if the file system might have something to do with it.
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>>I only have found one way on my box to create stutters of a disruptive magnitude.<<
Well, I guess "disruptive" could be relative. I think it would be safe to investigate even non-disruptive stutters, especially if they tend to occur with hard drive access.
Edit: Hopefully some news will be given this week if it looks like things are going to change. I'm barely playing now. Tonight was very bad with a bunch of planes and a fleet close by. This is just completely different than it was 2 weeks ago, and I have to make a decision.
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Originally posted by MOSQ
My Stutters are fixed. If you've read my other posts, you know I've been having up to 8 second screen freezes as I approach an enemy plane. I was going to wait to post an indepth analysis after a few days, but the quick of it is I reformatted my hard drive, installed several partitions, put AHII in it's own partition all by itself. The beauty of it's own partition is the ease of reformatting the partition to erase any trace of old AHII files when new versions come out.
Now my system has only the latest versions of all it's drivers, no old junk cluttering it up.
Everything is working awesome. 512 textures, the whole nine yards. I have my performance sliders set farther to the left than ever before. Sound card is set to full acceleration. The graphics are great!
NO stutters. No CTDs. Decent if not spectacular frame rates.
And I just checked, my cache file is NOT set to read only! I have no idea what it was set to before the reformat.
Intel 1.4 Ghz Celeron
Intel 440-BX mobo, 100mhz FSB, IDE Ultra 66
384 MBs RAM
Asylum Nvidia FX-5200 Ultra 128 MB AGP
SoundBlaster Live! Value
Win 98 se
20 Gig 7200 rpm HD
Dell 200 watt power supply
I installed a new hard drive 3 weeks ago with 4 partions and 4 on the slave HDD. AH is all alone on the D drive, but i still get an average of 1 CTD per hour. No stutters or freezes.
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TweetyBird,
I have WIN 98, so it's FAT 32.
Just finished two hours, not a single stutter, not even a micro one.
I'd bet a lot of it is the read only cache problem.
And I inadvertantly confirmed that if you fire up the AHII film viewer, it sucks all the files out of your cache.
Edit: And that causes stutters until you reload all the planes. So I sat in a field ack for 45 minutes while planes took off <200 away. Each plane not previously viewed caused a micro freeze/stutter the moment it appeared on the runway.
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Just checked.
Every folder in my AHII directory is labeled 'Read Only'. I un-tick the Read Only attribute, apply it, check again and it's back to Read Only status.
But I can go into the game and change views and button assignments and they stay changed next time I launch the game. So I think it is just an XP thing to report those folders Read Only. Everything still seems to work like it should.
I've also lowered sound acceleration to none, renamed the sound folder and all that. I noticed I have a folder called 'Tcache' now, but that might be from renaming the cache folder trying to fix the stutters.
Windows XP Home.
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Hmm, very interesting discovery. Are you guys whose folders keep reverting to read-only using any sort of disk compression or file managing software?
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If you have XP, the folder will have a gray checkbox. Just verify that it's not a black check and that the files in the folder are unchecked.
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Originally posted by Pyro
Are you guys whose folders keep reverting to read-only using any sort of disk compression or file managing software?
No disk compression or file managing software.
But I got to thinking... I am using the NTSF file system, and AHII installs root directory. The system has 5 different logins. I bet if I install it in My Documents under my user name instead I can get it to remove the Read Only status.
Downloading now :)
** EDIT
Didn't work. What was I thinking?
**
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:confused:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/172_1089479511_read.jpg)
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Originally posted by Pyro
If you have XP, the folder will have a gray checkbox. Just verify that it's not a black check and that the files in the folder are unchecked.
Pyro,
I have Win XP home - no disk compression. Everytime I Deselect "read only" to the cache folder it returns i.e. it appears read only when I check again (This happens without even running the game)
Regards
Acetnt
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Originally posted by Pyro
If you have XP, the folder will have a gray checkbox. Just verify that it's not a black check and that the files in the folder are unchecked.
I don`t know about the gray and black checks. In mine it shows filled in green as the one shown above.
I uncheck the box on the folder then go through all of the files and do the same.
When I close out and go back in the folder and files have all reverted to read only.
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Originally posted by Pyro
Hmm, very interesting discovery. Are you guys whose folders keep reverting to read-only using any sort of disk compression or file managing software?
Go here ...
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;256614
SYMPTOMS
You may be unable to remove the Read-Only attribute from a folder using Windows Explorer. In addition, some programs may display error messages when you try to save files to the folder.
CAUSE
This behavior occurs because the folder is customized. You can customize a folder by clicking Customize this folder on the View menu. Many programs also customize folders (for example, the Fonts folder comes with a customization as part of the standard system configuration).
STATUS
This behavior is by design.
WORKAROUND
WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk.
Windows Explorer uses the Read-Only attribute to determine whether or not the folder is customized. To work around this behavior, you can configure Windows Explorer to use the System flag instead of the Read-Only flag.
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Quig,
Your cache folder is 142 MBs alone. Wow. When I reformatted and installed AHII, I noticed that my entire AHII default install was 167 MBs. That's with the defualt plane skins, prior to going online and starting the cache process of new skins. It was easy to be sure because that's all there is on it's own partition. I'm at work right now, but I think when I looked last night AHII had grown via the new plane skins download to maybe 185MBs or so. I'll check in a couple of hours and edit this post with my exact AHII file size and cache size.
It just seems like 827 files taking up 142 MBs in cache is a lot of data to read and display on the "fly".
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>>Windows Explorer uses the Read-Only attribute to determine whether or not the folder is customized.<<
Another example of Microsoft sloppiness and hack code.
Hmm, now what kind of side effects could happen if we use the read-only flag for something else? They can think of 4698 ways to put spam on your desktop, but can't see the problems of using attribute flags "creatively."
Ok, next question. Is it possible this read-only attribute is producing errors that have to be parsed, slowing down hard drive access? I know the program is writing to this folder, but I wonder if its going through some long stream of low level error handling while doing so.
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in same boat as jackal...
actually - If I look at any folder in ah2, ie skins, cache, filmes, ect.....properties show a green box highlighting readonly.
edit - all files on my system have the green box highlighting read-only. There is no check there. Clicking it will make it go away, but will come right back.
also Pyro - no disk compression or management software.
Using NTFS setup.
Files in the folder have no black check boxes in their properties.
Maybe just an XP oddity - which means a false alarm :)
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Originally posted by MOSQ
I'm at work right now, but I think when I looked last night AHII had grown via the new plane skins download to maybe 185MBs or so.
Hmmm... with no screen shots or anything extra in my AH2 directory (even temporarily deleted the Tcache folder):
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/172_1089492138_ah_2.jpg)
This is not normal?
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It is only the flag that shows as read only, the folder and the files in it are not read only.
BTW: I am not currently getting any stutters at all... mines shows as read only too.
XP Pro NTFS
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Quig,
My Entire HTC file is 191 MBS, 1117 files. Your HTC file is 401 MBs and 1414 files.
Interesting you have 30% more HTC files and more than double the MBs.
My cache file is 845 files taking up 82.4 MBs. Your cache file is 827 files taking up 142 MBs. You have fewer files but almost double the data in cache.
I'm running 512 textures. Are you running the 1024 textures?
The HTC file is because I have just reinstalled, so I don't have all the maps. And no films. Films can take up a huge space.
But that dosen't explain the cache difference, unless you have the larger textures.
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Originally posted by Paxil
It is only the flag that shows as read only, the folder and the files in it are not read only.
XP Pro NTFS
Unless there is a bug in the Patch 3 -5 code that has caused some folks systems to treat them as truly read only.
My stutters started with Patch 3, everything was fine before that. So something happened....
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Thanks for the response.
The difference is I haven't ran the film viewer in a long time. I'm betting you have recently?
Just watched a few films, and now the cache folder is showing 242 files, 41 MB total size.
I made a copy of my cache folder before running the film viewer (got the idea from another thread about the film viewer clearing out the cache), so I still have the original folder.
But I'll lay money that's what the difference was :)
Try making a back-up copy of your cache folder, clear out the original folder, play online for an hour or so and watch the file size jump way up. But as soon as you run the film viewer, it will cut the file size dramatically.
Doesn't seem to make much a difference in-game. I get the stutters either way.
I do have an idea of what might be causing my problem, but I need to check into it more.
Thanks for bringing that up though... more insight for us all.
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hmm, my cache folder is showing 198Mb in 900 files / 30 folders.
just ran film viewer - down to 11.5MB, 90 files / one folder (stdshape)
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Originally posted by Paxil
It is only the flag that shows as read only, the folder and the files in it are not read only.
XP Pro NTFS
Their showing read only in mine and I can`t change them because the revert back.
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ok just did the "stock" re-cacheing from using film editor, back into AH2. After the chache i have 823 files in one folder.
going to look at all lplanes / skins now.
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hmm lets all compare.
My AH2 folder properties:
(http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/wildcrd/ah2/AH2.jpg)
My AH2 cache folder properties:
(http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/wildcrd/ah2/AH2_cache.jpg)
anybody else noticeing differences or is it just me? I've veiwed all A/C and G/v's in hanger AND flown or driven everything
I had 2 films and 5 screenshots after delteing them it brought my
AH2 size to 251mb
size on disk to 312mb
containing 2,564files and 117 folders
Also I use mitsue's sound pack
windows XP pro
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Big difference between me and quig
150mb on size
and 89 mb for size on disk
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on further examination when i gointo the cache folder then for instance stdshapes and select the properties of any of them the files are checked as archive.
So, if i'm understanding this correctly the MAIN files like your cache folder is "read only" the individual files are archive
for instence if you check the properties of "settings" it will say "read only"
if you check the properties on say 109e4.hps it will say archive.
I think thats what its supposed to be. the CACHE folder properties say read only because its the main folder and not supposed to change .
The "contents" of that folder are set"archive" becouse they are changeable
Im not a computer whiz I'm just trying to wrap my head around this so as to avoid a wild goose chase
I'm thinking the large variations in cache folder and AH2 folder sizes might be of concern though
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after playing ah2 for several hours now and looking at planes / gvs in hanger - im at 892 files 28 folder 191 Mb used.
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If memory serves me correctly, the "A" flag (archive) is typically used for backup systems.
When a backup system runs, especially incremental backups, it will look at this flag and determine if the file needs to be copied.
It will then change the flag to ... I forget ... but as soon as the file is changed again, the OS will now change it back to "A".
Even tho the directories are flagged as read-only, we can rename or delete then without a problem. I also believe that the read-only attribute on the folders has something to do with the "simple file-sharing" that XP supports.
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
Big difference between me and quig
150mb on size
and 89 mb for size on disk
Does the "size" difference have to do with the texture size that each has chosen ?
Looks like the 89 MB is probably 256K size textures, while the 150 MB is probably the 1024K size textures.
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You are correct slap, that archive bit is just a backup flag... only makes a difference to backup software.
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My stutters have virtually disappeared. Nothing changed really. However, I discovered something when I was testing some things. I installed a 512MB Ramdisk (have 1GB total memory) and installed AH2 to the ramdisk. I found that AH2 loads from my hard drive (WD 10K RPM Raptor SATA) in exactly the same amount of time it loads from my ramdisk (PC3200). I also noticed that even when I load AH2 from the ramdisk there is a lot of disk activity going on. The question about the folders being marked read only (mine are) makes me wonder if that isn't forcing usage of the windows swap file for some reason?
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I've checked my properties of many planes in the cache folder and the boxes are left unchecked. Using XP home with the traditional windows interface.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/474_1089570129_f.jpg)
I have no problems what so ever ingame.
Epox INTEL865 EP-4PDA2+
800 FBS Hypertheading
INTEL P4/3.06GHz CPU
2 x 512MB PC 3200 Ram
Western Digital SATA 80gig hard drive
7200RPM 8MB buffer
Chaintech FX5900XT Nvidia 128meg card
. OEM drivers
. Card settings: 1042x768 truecolor 85 hertz
. Image setting: Performance
. AA setting: 4X
. Anisotropic filtering: 4X
. Vsync on ( 85 hertz )
DirectX 9.0B
Soundblaster 512 XP configuration
. 3/4 acceleration
Misc DVD-RW, DVD, floppy
Antec Truepower 430watt power supply
Antec/PlusView 1000AMG case
Two extra case fans ( 5 total )
XP Home
Ingame vidio settings:
Resolution 1024x768
Horizon, transitions, mipmaping enabled
Texture size 1024
Texture load per frame Unlimited
Ground detail at 2 miles
All other sliders at Maximum
Gamma 1.1
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That might be it about the cache size, the texture size. I'm running 1024 textures.
Still the one thing that in my limited testing and with squadmates testing - is that if you are experienceing stutters -looking at the 3dmodels / skins of all vehicles eliminates the stutters - except for some of the ground textures which are loaded or "seen" upon take-off. After that is done - it is stutter free.
I don't know how that would relate to a cache issue; maybe the files are there in cache, just not "activated" when the games starts? and when the game accesses cache, theres a stuttuer?
Heck, I'd take a "view" key in hanger that would go through all the planes/skins/vehicles while in hanger automatically :)
Like I said I have no clue how it all works and plead ignorance if this doesn't make sense. :)
Maybe i'll just shut my piehole and go work on a skin:)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Does the "size" difference have to do with the texture size that each has chosen ?
Looks like the 89 MB is probably 256K size textures, while the 150 MB is probably the 1024K size textures.
running mine at 512
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Today my cache has slightly grown to 87.2 MBs, 868 Files.
I too run 512 textures.
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im running windows xp pro and i cant uncheck the read only either for the cache.
not the folder itself or the sub folders/files.
i am the administrator so have the right too do so.
my problem only started at patch 3 and i have been asking ever since what changed.
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My cache folder continually grows with repeated sessions of AH2 Play.
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FWIW, no stutters for several days, until tonight. For some reason unknown to me when I started AH it went through the extraction routine that's only supposed to occur when certain video settings are changed or perhaps a new patch is installed. Didn't change any video settings but I did attempt to remove the read only attribute assigned to all of the AH2 folders (to no avail, still read only). Anyhow, the stutters were back, and while not frequent, they did occur periodically throughout the couple of hours I was on. Hmmmmmm.
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Iron, had you been using the film viewer?
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Iron, had you been using the film viewer?
Yes, I did.
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It probably dumped your cache. At least that`s what has been happening to me.
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Iron...Yes opening the film viewer will dump your cache. You don’t even have to view a film. The simple act of opening the Film Viewer will cause the cache to be sucked down.
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Shouldn't this kind of stuff been fixed before we pay 14.95 a month for it?????????
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Settle down Sparky. I've only read two of your posts and can already tell you are new to the online gaming thing.
Aces High just went through a complete revamp and they are working hard trying to get things back up to the normal high standard of play.
$15 a month is a lot less than you'll pay for most other high quality games out there.
Heck you can't even take a lady out to dinner one night with $15 bucks. Here you get entertained a whole month for it.
Things will get better. Have some faith.
Cut HTC some slack and chill out dog.
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My names not sparky or dawg thanks, and sorry your wrong I'm not new to online gaming. I played AH1 for over a year and a half. I loved every min of it. I just don't thnk it's cool to ask people to pay for a game and help work ALL the bugs out of it. Thats what beta is for.
I can have my opinion just as you can, so until you pay my 14.95 every month I will have the opinion I want.
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did you play the beta Gamble?
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Ya,I did, And the current version is much better. I just get bothered by all the little problems. I understand HT is doing there best to get all the problems solved. My point is that If the problems mostly fixed and AH 1 worked so much better than why make AH2 our only choice. I think most of the problems should be fixed BEFORE HT requires us the player to pay for it.If they need people to BETA test it, pay them to do it not the other way around.