Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nash on July 09, 2004, 12:03:34 AM
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He is not the lesser of two evils.
He is a good man. Intelligent. Wise. Capable.
Cynicism rubs me the wrong way. I will call a tard a tard... but I don't buy into the generality that all politicians are crooks. And I don't buy into the argument that only the worst would submit themselves to the Presidency.
There is more than just cause for hope.
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eh?
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Originally posted by Nash
.
I will call a tard a tard...
i agree, kerry is a 'tard"
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I agree, Kerry is no alternative and he is not the lessor of two evils :D
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Who cares, MANK!
Save it for October!
Go get some sun on that pasty white skin of yours.
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Originally posted by Nash
He is a good man. Intelligent. Wise. Capable.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Torque
Who cares, MANK!
Save it for October!
Go get some sun on that pasty white skin of yours.
Well... 8:30am I'm outta here for a few days of some stand-in-a-river-fishing. Can't guaruntee a tan though... it's supposed to rain hard.
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Nash, I will call a tard a tard as well.
Bush is a tard.
Kerry gives me a viable alternative.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/download/submitted/kerry_banner2.gif)
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Originally posted by Nash
Well... 8:30am I'm outta here for a few days of some stand-in-a-river-fishing. Can't guaruntee a tan though... it's supposed to rain hard.
You know what to do if you see a baby bear.:D
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Originally posted by rpm371
Nash, I will call a tard a tard as well.
Bush is a tard.
Kerry gives me a viable alternative.
What is Kerry going to do for America?
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Originally posted by NUKE
What is Kerry going to do for America?
Kerry's stand on issues. (http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/)
Here is his plan for the first 100 days:
(1) A New National Education Trust Fund
We will propose a National Education Trust Fund to make sure that, for the first time ever, we fully fund our schools so they have the tools to assure our kids can succeed in the 21st century economy. We will make a new deal on education – if Washington is going to mandate something for our schools, then the funding should be mandatory.
(2) A New Era of National Service
John Kerry will call on Americans of all ages – from students to America’s seniors - to serve in our classrooms, after school programs, nursing homes and nursery schools. We will fight to allow students to earn four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.
(3) End the ‘Era of Ashcroft’
John Ashcroft has launched an all-out assault on individual rights, allowing for a wholesale invasion of attorney-client conversations, e-mails and telephone calls. Immediately after the election, John Kerry will name a new Attorney General whose name is not John Ashcroft. We will also fight to protect women’s rights, civil rights and workers rights and enforce anti-trust laws.
(4) Repeal Bush Assault on the Environment and Make U.S. Energy Independent
We will rollback the George W. Bush assault on clean air and clean water and work to strengthen our nation’s environmental laws. Kerry will also put forward a plan to make the U.S. energy independent of Middle East oil in ten years—and create 500,000 jobs by investing in energy renewable sources, such as ethanol, solar, and wind.
(5) Rejoin the Community of Nations
We will immediately declare the Bush policy of unilateralism over and work to rebuild our shattered alliances all across the globe. We will launch a successful war against terrorism and also restore trust here at home and abroad by making sure that America always tells the whole truth.
(6) First Major Legislative Plan: Affordable Health Care
John Kerry’s first major proposal to Congress will be a realistic plan that stops spiraling healthcare costs, covers every child in America, and makes it possible for every American to get the same health care as any Member of Congress.
(7) Reward Companies that Create Jobs not Phony Corporate Profit
We will work to reward companies that create jobs by helping with health care costs, a new manufacturing jobs tax credit and new assistance for small businesses. We will also close every single loophole for companies that take jobs offshore and apply new criminal penalties, such as RICO penalties, on companies that defraud their customers and workers.
(8) Create a Middle Class Economy and End the Privileged Class Economy
We will fight to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so that we can invest in education and health care. We will also protect middle class tax cuts, such as the child credit and the elimination of the marriage penalty and propose additional tax credits to help middle class families make ends meet.
(9) Cut the Deficit in Half in Four Years
We will put forward a budget to restore fiscal sanity, eliminate corporate welfare, and cut the deficit in half in four years. However, we will keep our compact to seniors by securing Medicare and Social Security and protecting our children and veterans.
(10) End Influence Peddling and Secret Deals
We will reinstate the five-year ban on lobbying so that government officials - like Bush’s former campaign manager and FEMA director - cannot cash in by peddling influence. We will also shine the light on the secret deals in Washington by requiring every meeting with a lobbyist or any special interest deal inserted into a bill by a lobbyist be made public.
It all sounds good to me.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/images/home/070604_vp.jpg)
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can you sum up some of that nonsense in your own words?
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Originally posted by rpm371
It all sounds good to me.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/images/home/070604_vp.jpg)
Might as well argue with a stump.
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What's the difference between Kerry and a Catfish?
One is a low life bottom sucker... The other is a Fish.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Sandman
Might as well argue with a stump.
I agree Sand...anyone can go to a candidates website and re-post the spewage here.
Heaven forbid someone would actually replay with their own opinion or thoughts on why they feel Kerry is good for America.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Heaven forbid someone would actually replay with their own opinion or thoughts on why they feel Kerry is good for America.
To what end? You already know who you're voting for.
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Just can't help of thinking of the movie "Dumb and Dumber" when I see Kerry and Edwards....is it true that Edwards is really a Muppet? Notice you never see Kerry's both hand when he's with Edwards? :D
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Originally posted by Sandman
To what end? You already know who you're voting for.
The thread is not about who I'm voting for and the question was pretty simple.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Just can't help of thinking of the movie "Dumb and Dumber" when I see Kerry and Edwards....is it true that Edwards is really a Muppet? Notice you never see Kerry's both hand when he's with Edwards? :D
I thought you were headed for the pool?
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Originally posted by NUKE
... the question was pretty simple.
Yes it was, but why bother with an answer? I can guarantee that you won't agree with it. ;)
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Originally posted by NUKE
can you sum up some of that nonsense in your own words?
Sure, let me use small words to make it easier.
1) Improve education.
2) Do 2 years national service, get 4 years tuition.
3) Fire Ashcroft.
4) Clean up the environment and develop alternative energy.
5) Mend the diplomatic bridges Bush has burned and get the world united against terrorism.
6) Affordable health care, nuff said.
7) Start rewarding companies that help America instead of ones bleeding it dry.
8) Shift the economy to where the working middle class can thrive.
9) Lower the deficit.
10) Restrict lobbying.
Simple enough?
Don't expect me to explain his entire platform. I gave you the links, use them.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Yes it was, but why bother with an answer?
what? If someone will tell me in their own words why they feel Kerry is good for America, I would like to debate their points.
I don't understand what it that Kerry is going to do to better the lives and security of Americans, so I'd be interested in hearing what Kerry supporters have to say. I really have not heard one Kerry supporter here explain why they support him.
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Originally posted by NUKE
what? If someone will tell me in their own words why they feel Kerry is good for America, I would like to debate their points.
I don't understand what it that Kerry is going to do to better the lives and security of Americans, so I'd be interested in hearing what Kerry supporters have to say. I really have not heard one Kerry supporter here explain why they support him.
Good luck. I'll stay out of it. I'm not pro-Kerry. I'm anti-Bush. ;)
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OK, Nuke...for the LAST time...then I'm jumping in the hot tub.
He will try to fix the diplomatic mess Bush made and get a world united with us against terrorism again. Remember when the whole world was behind us a couple years ago? Bush dropped the ball, IMHO.
He is for national health coverage. So am I. This is very important for the nation.
He is offering free college for 2 years of service. A great idea.
He is going to fire Ashcroft. Another great idea.
He is going to make it possible for the middle class to thrive. I'm middle class.
Lastly, he WENT TO VIETNAM and didn't pull any strings to stay home. Say what ever you want, he showed up. As a vet, I respect that and his right to protest afterward.
I really can't find anything about him I don't like. I listed things in order of importance to me.
Now quit whining, I'm making margaritas and taking a dip.
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Sure, let me use small words to make it easier.
1) Improve education. *obviously Kerrys and Edwards Education.
2) Do 2 years national service, get 4 years tuition. Hmmmm... Kerry did less that 2 years.... and Edwards????
3) Fire Ashcroft. LOL Cuz Ashcroft was a better Boyscout.
4) Clean up the environment and develop alternative energy. *Kerry wipes his arse and blows hot air.**Suckin up to the French/Germans/Saudias/Canada.*
5) Mend the diplomatic bridges Bush has burned and get the world united against terrorism. *bring back the extra baggage that woouldn't fight Terrorism to begin with.*
6) Affordable health care, nuff said. *With who's money? His?*
7) Start rewarding companies that help America instead of ones bleeding it dry. *Hmmmm the term "Out Sourcing comes to mind...can you say NAFTA? Thanks Bill Clinton!*
8) Shift the economy to where the working middle class can thrive. *What does Kerry know about the Middle Class?*
9) Lower the deficit. *see the above... and just how is he going to lower it? Cut pay from the Fat Cats in Wash D.C.?*
10) Restrict lobbying. *only after the Lobbyist get him elected*
*singin, all together now* "Bringing in the sheeps, Bringing in the sheeps, Democraps rejoicing bring in the sheeps.
I say we pull a Farmer off a tractor in the middle of Iowa and tell him He's the Prez...bet things would straigthen out really fast!
:aok
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Originally posted by rpm371
We will launch a successful war against terrorism and also restore trust here at home and abroad by making sure that America always tells the whole truth.
:rofl
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Hanoi Kerry...
Why do the terrosits want Kerry in Office>?...yes you are correct..
LINGUINE SPINNED LIBERALS...
fuq france-Russia..they profited off Iraq..anyother reason they voted against smashing Saddam?...Oyaa..his peopel were bettr off with huim..LMFAO..
Hanoi Kerry...he is a disgrace to the uniform
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As I expected. No rational debate, just NeoCon ramblings.
Try some of those "Rushies" or "Oxymorons" or whatever that was he was taking Mac. I think you'll like em. ;)
(http://www.johnkerry.com/download/submitted/kerry_banner2.gif)
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Can only pray that 49% of Americans are as 'enlightened' as rpm come vote day. :eek:
http://www.georgewbush.com/Agenda/ (http://www.georgewbush.com/Agenda/)
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Hanoi Kerry...
Why do the terrosits want Kerry in Office>?...yes you are correct..
LINGUINE SPINNED LIBERALS...
fuq france-Russia..they profited off Iraq..anyother reason they voted against smashing Saddam?...Oyaa..his peopel were bettr off with huim..LMFAO..
Hanoi Kerry...he is a disgrace to the uniform
short memory you
have (http://www.local.attac.org/attac30/d-irak/Rums+Huss.jpg)
The only one country whitch supported SH in war were US
Actualy still same people who fight him today ...
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In Kerry's agenda all I see is Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, Raise taxes, then raise taxes.
How can you NOT see this?
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Originally posted by Steve
How can you NOT see this?
he is lubricated like a fox :D
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Lubricated like a fox? :D
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Originally posted by Nash
I want to have Edwards' buttbaby.
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Originally posted by VOR
Lubricated like a fox? :D
u know that joke ? :D
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No, lada, I have no idea what you are saying, but it hit me sideways this early in the morning.
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Doesnt this look tasty?
(http://www-no.elkjop.asap-asp.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/images/sb206_nm.jpg)
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Yummy!
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Hillary in 2008!
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Nader in 2012!
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Liberals are nothing but believers...really.
You guys want to believe Kerry is going to make it all happen...and the democrats keep suckering you with the same lines..
Remember Bill and Hillary and the Health Care reforms they swore to?
Where are they 10 years later?
Let's be honest here, OK.
What will Kerry and the Democrats really do?
Raise taxes for starters. They already said it. Did'nt you hear what Hillary said..."For the common good".
When was the last time the government spent our money intelligently?
IMprove education? Great.Give us school vouchers, destroy the monopoly of public schools and let competition and business sense come into the industry. Let ME select the best school for my kid and I'll pay for the school I choose.
Affordable Health Care? You believe this from a guy who is DIRECTLY responsible for driving up health care costs by suing doctors and driving up Malpractice insurance? Where do the costs go?
Mend Fences? With whom? The UN. France? Germany? China? And be at the mercy of THEIR influence? Shall we sacrifice ourselves at the altar of the UN? Does the UN have our best interests at heart or do they also represent countries like Syria and Iran and make places like Libya the HUMAN RIGHTS commissioner?
Alternative energy? By putting these guys in office, is science going to develop faster? IF a car company could make a car that would run on water tomorrow, do you think they would not sell it unless a democrat was in office?
Lower the deficit? How? We're spending all this money o health care and education. Are we going to cut intelligence and defense spending as Kerry did in the senate or are we just going to raise taxes?
Guys wakes up. You;re being sold a lemon here.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Liberals are nothing but believers...really.
When was the last time the government spent our money intelligently?
(checking for last balanced budget.....)
Hey look! it was 1996 to 2000!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
(checking for last balanced budget.....)
Hey look! it was 1996 to 2000!
Hey look!! who controlled the purse strings?
We finally got enough National sense to take the checkbook away from the President and Billy Jeff.
Oh I'm sorry I almost forgot Hillaryously wasn't the President, well you know what I mean.
Poor Billy Jeff, the mean ol' nasty Republicans wouldn't give him the money to 1/2 bury his old tractor tires in front of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
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Originally posted by Nash
He is not the lesser of two evils.
There is more than just cause for hope.
Wow Man, that is SO deep......!!!
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Unrealistic promises if you ask me...
Originally posted by rpm371
Kerry's stand on issues. (http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/)
Here is his plan for the first 100 days:
(1) A New National Education Trust Fund
We will propose a National Education Trust Fund to make sure that, for the first time ever, we fully fund our schools so they have the tools to assure our kids can succeed in the 21st century economy. We will make a new deal on education – if Washington is going to mandate something for our schools, then the funding should be mandatory.
Define fully fund? Are we going to set a reasonable bar for the expectations of our children's future, or are we just going to throw money at the education system? People knock NCLB because they say that it sets the bar too high for realistic results in public education. The fact that we have trouble teaching kids to read and add is not an issue that's going to be solved just by throwing money at it. Give the public schools goals to stretch for, THEN apply money as necessary. A lot of my family is in public education, and it's AMAZING how wasteful schools are when they get government money without starving a bit under lofty goals.
(2) A New Era of National Service
John Kerry will call on Americans of all ages – from students to America’s seniors - to serve in our classrooms, after school programs, nursing homes and nursery schools. We will fight to allow students to earn four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.
The first initiative is nice, but a President asking people to volunteer time to improve the community is not a new thing. It's also something that can't and shouldn't be a benchmark of a national administration. Community improvement can only be realisticly directed from the local level.
As far as four years of college for two years of national service... I take issue with that. For instance, two years of tuition assistance under the Montgomery GI Bill would only net a person $6500, hardly enough to pay for 4 years in a State school. Where are you paying for this? Honestly, I believe the college education is overrated for (and even wasted by) most Americans. 2 years of National service should more realisticly earn you the right to vote.
(3) End the ‘Era of Ashcroft’
John Ashcroft has launched an all-out assault on individual rights, allowing for a wholesale invasion of attorney-client conversations, e-mails and telephone calls. Immediately after the election, John Kerry will name a new Attorney General whose name is not John Ashcroft. We will also fight to protect women’s rights, civil rights and workers rights and enforce anti-trust laws.
Limiting rights when terrorism is suspected can hardly be considered wholesale. Most of these people aren't even Americans. This bullet is more like poorly worded filler so you can reach a magic 10 points. What civil rights under law have been lost with John Ashcroft as Attorney General? What civil rights will come under law when he's replaced? The fact is that any civil rights they may be whining about are already in place, and what they will attempt to enact is more like social favoritism.
(4) Repeal Bush Assault on the Environment and Make U.S. Energy Independent
We will rollback the George W. Bush assault on clean air and clean water and work to strengthen our nation’s environmental laws. Kerry will also put forward a plan to make the U.S. energy independent of Middle East oil in ten years—and create 500,000 jobs by investing in energy renewable sources, such as ethanol, solar, and wind.
All I'll really say about this is that if you check with the Department of Energy, you'll notice that we get very little of our oil from the Middle East. The vast majority of our oil comes from the american continents. However, I personally think that energy independence is a very sexy goal, and cutting off the Middle East is a good first step. 1 Point to Kerry for almost saying it.
(5) Rejoin the Community of Nations
We will immediately declare the Bush policy of unilateralism over and work to rebuild our shattered alliances all across the globe. We will launch a successful war against terrorism and also restore trust here at home and abroad by making sure that America always tells the whole truth.
A successful war against terrorism is one of everlasting vigilance. I agree that we need allies in this war so they can police thier own, but the fact of the matter is that Bush chose the 'unilateralist' action because our allies WOULDN'T police thier own. Kerry doesn't have an effective solution for that problem. He simply hopes that he can put the trust and the lives of the American people into the hands of the UN. In my opinion, such a corrupt organization would, after having been given Kerry's approval, would sacrifice more American lives and trust than Bush ever did on his own.
(6) First Major Legislative Plan: Affordable Health Care
John Kerry’s first major proposal to Congress will be a realistic plan that stops spiraling healthcare costs, covers every child in America, and makes it possible for every American to get the same health care as any Member of Congress.
That's just silly. If you want to control health care costs, start with litigation and tort reform. Unfortunately, John Edwards got rich off of poor people battling corporations with the all mighty tort. Under Kerry and Edwards, not only would healthcare CONTINUE to spiral in cost, but so would taxes.
(7) Reward Companies that Create Jobs not Phony Corporate Profit
We will work to reward companies that create jobs by helping with health care costs, a new manufacturing jobs tax credit and new assistance for small businesses. We will also close every single loophole for companies that take jobs offshore and apply new criminal penalties, such as RICO penalties, on companies that defraud their customers and workers.
Note on socialized health care costs: see the above bullet.
I could be wrong here, but I don't see anything in the term 'Manufacturing jobs tax credit' other than a handout to the AFL-CIO. I'm INCREDIBLY anti-union so I'll stop on this point before I make an bellybutton of myself.
Finally, closing loopholes for corporate tax evasion is a good thing. The fact that they're trying to pin it onto the wave of corporate accounting scandals is shameless. If there was a loophole in the law that allowed me to not pay taxes, I'd use it. What the accounting scandals amount to is me lying to the IRS on my taxes. One is legal, the other isn't.
(8) Create a Middle Class Economy and End the Privileged Class Economy
We will fight to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so that we can invest in education and health care. We will also protect middle class tax cuts, such as the child credit and the elimination of the marriage penalty and propose additional tax credits to help middle class families make ends meet.
Kerry can't fund all his initiatives by repealing the tax cuts for those who make more than $300,000 a year. It's a mathematical impossibility. It's sad that Kerry believes that they way ahead in America is to punish the successful for succeeding.
(9) Cut the Deficit in Half in Four Years
We will put forward a budget to restore fiscal sanity, eliminate corporate welfare, and cut the deficit in half in four years. However, we will keep our compact to seniors by securing Medicare and Social Security and protecting our children and veterans.
It's a fine goal, but they won't be able to do it. We had a budget surplus under Bill Clinton during the hayday before all that accounting malpractice surfaced on the public radar. At that time, the government was getting it's tax revenue from 'successful' corporations. Waging war on the 'honest' successful corporations that we have left will leave us with nothing. The way out of the deficit is to start an initiative to kill wasteful government spending. It will take longer than 4 years, to kill 50 years of piled up crap.
(10) End Influence Peddling and Secret Deals
We will reinstate the five-year ban on lobbying so that government officials - like Bush’s former campaign manager and FEMA director - cannot cash in by peddling influence. We will also shine the light on the secret deals in Washington by requiring every meeting with a lobbyist or any special interest deal inserted into a bill by a lobbyist be made public.
Wait... they're going to keep people from talking to their Congressman? That's probably the worst idea I've ever heard. And don't get me started on defining 'special interests'.
RPM, I'd like to hear your rebuttal to these responses. I realize it's difficult for people like you and I to come to agreement, but it would elevate the arguement if we had some kind of intellectual discourse.
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To all you Americans who are registered to vote as I am: May the best candidate win.
To the rest of you :lol
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Originally posted by AWMac
Sure, let me use small words to make it easier.
1) Improve education. *nu uh!*.
2) Do 2 years national service, get 4 years tuition. *nu uh!*.
3) Fire Ashcroft. *nu uh!*..
4) Clean up the environment and develop alternative energy. *nu uh!*.
5) Mend the diplomatic bridges Bush has burned and get the world united against terrorism. *nu uh!*.
6) Affordable health care, nuff said. *nu uh!*.
7) Start rewarding companies that help America instead of ones bleeding it dry. *nu uh!*.
8) Shift the economy to where the working middle class can thrive. *nu uh!*.
9) Lower the deficit. *nu uh!*.
10) Restrict lobbying. *nu uh!*.
:aok
Convinced me which side I want to support.
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here's what I get out of that... nash want's him but nash isn't even an American.
Rpm want's him but rpm is a total liberal socialist.
The plan... kerry wants to pour more money into a failing school sysem instead of exploring alternatives...
He want's socialized medicine that will destroy our free system and is nothing but a rehash of hillary klintons plan.
mend bridges? sell us down the river to the country's that want us to fund their failed programs.
he wants to have class warfare and bring everyone down to the same level.
he wants to futher empower and fund the most radical and powerful government agency on the planet... the EPA.
He wants to gut the auto industry and put us all on the bus and train.
I think that his radical libereralism will become as apparent (and abhorent) as nash's and rpms to the American people before the eledction.
he is LBJ all over again and with a vengence.
sure hope the economy stays good till election.
lazs
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Hillary in 2008!
She won't stand a chance against
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Great post there, Preon. All these supposed Kerry/Edwards goals are nothing more than empty rhetoric. All you need to do is ask a single question after each of these 10 points, "How?" to see that. To the Kerry/Edwards supporters, please look at the voting records of these two senators. That's how you'll know what direction they'll take the country. Kerry is rated the Number 1 most liberal senator in Congress, and Edwards is number 4. That's a pretty left-leaning ticket, even by Democratic Party standards.
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Originally posted by Torque
You know what to do if you see a baby bear.:D
Simple, if you see a bear, climb a tree. if it climbs the tree and kills you, it's a black bear. If it knocks the tree down and kills you, it's a grizzly bear.
Have a fun weekend Nash :)
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Lets not forget the original poster of such vile is Canadian, and we know how well Canadians pick candidates in their elections.:eek: :lol
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Originally posted by Sabre
Great post there, Preon. All these supposed Kerry/Edwards goals are nothing more than empty rhetoric. All you need to do is ask a single question after each of these 10 points, "How?" to see that. To the Kerry/Edwards supporters, please look at the voting records of these two senators. That's how you'll know what direction they'll take the country. Kerry is rated the Number 1 most liberal senator in Congress, and Edwards is number 4. That's a pretty left-leaning ticket, even by Democratic Party standards.
True enough Sabre, But that has never stopped the dems before. Their plan is to take more of my money and give it to the "underprivileged" people of the country. This is actually a more liberal ticket than that rediculous Mondale/Ferraro ticket in 1984 they just shot themselves in the foot, again.
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You can really summarize what kerries plans are by just saying that his plan is to raise taxes to pay for a bunch of new programs and that he is ready to sell us down the river to other countries.
You can't do any of the things he wants without spending gobs of money. Where will he get it? That is what people will want to know. How will he "mend fences" with the countries that have allways despised us? Will he send moore around to tell em all how stupid we are?
Maybe he will appoint jane fonda as ambassador?
Who will pay for national health care? Who will pay for the "alternative fuel" study that private companies have sunk billions into?
How will he fix schools? Give the NEA even more control? Bush has spent record levels on schools and there is no improvement. kerry is hogtied.. he is owned by the NEA.
kerry will weaken the second amendment even tho every serious study shows that this path leads to making things worse. What kind of a person trys to make things worse because he owes his buddies? What kind of a person would even associate with the brady bunch?
kerry is vile. like rpm and nash he is an over the top liberal who hates America.
lazs
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We were already sold a lemon. Is Kerry any better.. probably not. For me it comes down to going with the lemon you know or the one you don't.
I keep remembering Bush's pitch that he was going to restore family values in the White House. Did that happen? I can't turn on the tv without hearing about him or Cheneys relationship with companies that are profitiing greatly by thier policies. What exactly ARE those family values that are in the White House and what do they do to the bottom line?
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LAZ...
Where is Bush getting the money for WAR? this isn't a slam... I'm curious about this answer... where is it REALLY coming from? Defense spending is up, he gave us a tax break and he still can fight 2 wars. How? And if he can money to do this, can't all those programs go to the same source?
I know I'm showing my ignorance here, but I don't care.
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Originally posted by mosgood
Where is Bush getting the money for WAR? this isn't a slam... I'm curious about this answer... where is it REALLY coming from? Defense spending is up, he gave us a tax break and he still can fight 2 wars. How? And if he can money to do this, can't all those programs go to the same source?
Sadly, this is the only defense for the Kerry plan that has any weight to it. The childish 'neener neener' kind of approach where Kerry can say "But you're ALREADY doing what you're accusing me of planning!". It worked when we were kids in the playground, and it'll work in this campaign. I for one however,, prefer to vote for the man who plans on spending that deficit on killing our enemies rather than starting liberal, socialist initiatives (AND the war on terror (maybe)).
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Edwards is a bad choice, imo. It scares me to think that Cheney or Edwards could be president. I don't see how anyone can vote for Kerry/Edwards, I thought there were much better choices for VP. Please, dear Lord, keep GW away from the pretzels, ty.
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Hot Air
that is skerry kerry's plan - pipe dreams
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mossgood... it is a sad fact that republicans build up the military with our taxes and the democrats build social programs. either way costs.
We are not still paying for WWI tho but we are still paying for social security... we are paying for AA and for pandering to the NEA If we go to national health we will be paying for a huge government program that will never go away... we are still paying for welfare.
Building up the military seems more important and a job of the government than redistributing its citizens wealth. kerry want's to redistribute the wealth.
I am not a big Bush fan... he is far to liberal to me but... he does do what he says.. more so than any pres in recent memory. He has built up our miitary after klinton gutted it.
soo... the economyh is good... What will happen is that if kerry is elected he will gut the military and start a whole new bunch of social programs with the "savings" the economy will stay good because it will be a wash at first... he might even make two terms where towards the end... the cosrt of all his social programs starts to really kick in...
The new guy will be stuck with a weak military, a failing economy with high taxes as an alternative and no defense against aggression. it will be allmost impossible for him to cut spending on the giveaway programs that the socialist put in once people are addicted... and the whole circle will start again.
If Bush stays in we will see the cost of iraq wind down... he will cut some of the more abhorrent socialist programs and keep us from becoming canada. The military will stay strong... the countries that have allways despised us will still despise and envy us but more openly than with a klinton or kerry say... results will stay the same tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by Preon1
Sadly, this is the only defense for the Kerry plan that has any weight to it. The childish 'neener neener' kind of approach where Kerry can say "But you're ALREADY doing what you're accusing me of planning!". It worked when we were kids in the playground, and it'll work in this campaign. I for one however,, prefer to vote for the man who plans on spending that deficit on killing our enemies rather than starting liberal, socialist initiatives (AND the war on terror (maybe)).
Wait, so you're saying Kerry's plan of overspending is foolish and naive, but Bush's plan of overspending is acceptable defendable? And we're childish for questioning why its OK?
:confused:
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Originally posted by VOR
No, lada, I have no idea what you are saying, but it hit me sideways this early in the morning.
Its locution.
In some european languages we have same expresion for "smart" and "lubricated"
Its absolutly same word so we have few jokes like that....
another example is this.
Vodik se asimiloval v roztoku.
Hydrogen has been assimilated in liquid.
Vodik se asi miloval v roztoku.
Hydrogen probably made love in liquid.
and so on....
One of them is Lubricated like a fox instead of smart as fox.
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(http://www.georgewbush.com/images/gallery/20010903-1-1-in-file.jpg)
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Originally posted by hawker238
Wait, so you're saying Kerry's plan of overspending is foolish and naive, but Bush's plan of overspending is acceptable defendable? And we're childish for questioning why its OK?
:confused:
The Bush plan for spending is designed for two things:
-win a war
-aid the economy
Both of these reasons are acceptable when it comes to budget overruns. The first reason is obvious. We must stay alive in order to have this debate. The second reason is because there is a positive macroeconomical impact that comes with deficit spending and low taxes. In either case, once the essential need for that kind of spending is gone, we can/should expect that spending to go away as well.
John Kerry wants to spend money on new programs to deal with issues that our kind of government is simply illequipped to handle. It would be a waste.
I'm not trying to say that you're outrage at deficit spending is childish. Ofcourse we should question our government, contact our representatives, and act with our votes. However, given the choices, considering that no matter what, we're gonna rack up some debt, I think Bush is the smart choice.
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preon said it better than I did...
The spending kerry will do will be for bloated and incompetent government giveaway and junk science that will be with us forever. They will get even more bloated over time and cost even more.
If you don't have a strong military... some day you will need it and have to pay for it anyway but then it will cost a lot more.. thot we all learned that lesson by now. The klinton kerry "gut the military to pay for socialism" plans only work in the very short term and only if the economy is strong enough to take the beating for 4-6 years. Higher taxes kill the economy.
lazs
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"""(6) First Major Legislative Plan: Affordable Health Care
John Kerry’s first major proposal to Congress will be a realistic plan that stops spiraling healthcare costs, covers every child in America, and makes it possible for every American to get the same health care as any Member of Congress.
"""
thats why he has a trial lawyer for a VP, oh brother.
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http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm
Fri Jul 09 2004 09:23:56 ET
Just hours before attending an all-star celebrity fundraising concert in New York, Dem presidential candidate John Kerry revealed how he has been too busy for a real-time national security briefing.
"I just haven't had time," Kerry explained in an interview.
Kerry made the startling comments on CNN's LARRY KING LIVE Thursday night.
KING: News of the day, Tom Ridge warned today about al Qaeda plans of a large-scale attack on the United States. Didn't increase the -- you see any politics in this? What's your reaction?
KERRY: Well, I haven't been briefed yet, Larry. They have offered to brief me. I just haven't had time.
Developing...
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Originally posted by mosgood
I can't turn on the tv without hearing about him or Cheneys relationship with companies that are profitiing greatly by thier policies.
Boston Hearald:
Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry reported more than $250,000 in Enron stock ownership before the firm's 2003 collapse. Kerry also was forced to return a campaign contribution from an implicated Enron executive.
And Heinz Kerry served on a charity board with Lay, even after he was implicated in the alleged fraud, records show.
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Originally posted by Krusher
Boston Hearald:
Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry reported more than $250,000 in Enron stock ownership before the firm's 2003 collapse. Kerry also was forced to return a campaign contribution from an implicated Enron executive.
And Heinz Kerry served on a charity board with Lay, even after he was implicated in the alleged fraud, records show.
*gasp* say it ain't so!!!!! not the Kerrys from Massachusetts.
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Originally posted by Krusher
Boston Hearald:
Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry reported more than $250,000 in Enron stock ownership before the firm's 2003 collapse. Kerry also was forced to return a campaign contribution from an implicated Enron executive.
And Heinz Kerry served on a charity board with Lay, even after he was implicated in the alleged fraud, records show.
ya see.....
My fellow Americans... it is my pleasure (NOT) to present to you your only 2 choices for president to run your beloved country.....:rolleyes:
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About as I expected, only 1 or 2 serious responses. TY, Preon and muck.
Define fully fund? Are we going to set a reasonable bar for the expectations of our children's future, or are we just going to throw money at the education system? People knock NCLB because they say that it sets the bar too high for realistic results in public education. The fact that we have trouble teaching kids to read and add is not an issue that's going to be solved just by throwing money at it. Give the public schools goals to stretch for, THEN apply money as necessary. A lot of my family is in public education, and it's AMAZING how wasteful schools are when they get government money without starving a bit under lofty goals
What Kerry is talking about is ending unfunded mandates. Where the federal government makes up a new rule, but forces locals to come up with the money, therefore raising your local taxes to fund it. That way Bush can say he never raised any taxes...he just forced others to do it for him.
The first initiative is nice, but a President asking people to volunteer time to improve the community is not a new thing. It's also something that can't and shouldn't be a benchmark of a national administration. Community improvement can only be realisticly directed from the local level.
As far as four years of college for two years of national service... I take issue with that. For instance, two years of tuition assistance under the Montgomery GI Bill would only net a person $6500, hardly enough to pay for 4 years in a State school. Where are you paying for this? Honestly, I believe the college education is overrated for (and even wasted by) most Americans. 2 years of National service should more realisticly earn you the right to vote.
I still have no problems with this. Sounds like a great way to get people to pay for college while improving our society. As far as Americans wasting their education, you may be right. But how many jobs require a degree? A lot of them! A great idea for those who want to learn, but can't afford the tuition.
Limiting rights when terrorism is suspected can hardly be considered wholesale. Most of these people aren't even Americans. This bullet is more like poorly worded filler so you can reach a magic 10 points. What civil rights under law have been lost with John Ashcroft as Attorney General? What civil rights will come under law when he's replaced? The fact is that any civil rights they may be whining about are already in place, and what they will attempt to enact is more like social favoritism.
Yes, we all know Ashcroft has saved us from an attack by Tommy Chong. :rolleyes: If Ashcroft was so concerned about terrorism, why did he rabidly go after an actor that sells bongs? Damned druggies! I have not seen any links between Chong and al-Queda, have you? Oh well, with this administration they invent links, don't they? Did I fail to mention his nephews recieved a slap on the wrist for growing 60 pot plants in Missouri while Ashcroft was Governor and didn't go to jail? They were procecuted in State rather than Federal court, even tho it fell under federal guidelines, because federal courts have manditory drug sentencing.
And speaking of flip-flops, Ashcroft said "There has been an insistence that we turn over the keys to our individual privacy to the federal government, but there has been no talk about safeguards or privacy. Apparently, innocent citizens are expected to trust the bureaucracy not to abuse them as the IRS has done by shake down audits, or the FBI by handing over hundreds of sensitive files to political operatives in the White House." That was prior to him becoming AG, now it's completely different. "To those who pit Americans against immigrants, citizens against non-citizens, to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
Ashcroft ordered the statues of "Liberty" and "Justice" in the Justice Department covered because they were "obscene".
He is the live version of "The Church Lady" Dana Carvey used to play on SNL. Ashcroft is a rabid dog that needs put down. (P.S. He lost an election to a dead man!:lol )
All I'll really say about this is that if you check with the Department of Energy, you'll notice that we get very little of our oil from the Middle East. The vast majority of our oil comes from the american continents. However, I personally think that energy independence is a very sexy goal, and cutting off the Middle East is a good first step. 1 Point to Kerry for almost saying it.
You are correct in that we recieve the majority of our oil from the west, but it is still imported. I see becoming energy independant as a good thing. I think we both agree on this point. There are methods of energy available that we are not using and it makes us weaker overall. If we just lower usage enough to quit buying from the middle east, I say good job.
A successful war against terrorism is one of everlasting vigilance. I agree that we need allies in this war so they can police thier own, but the fact of the matter is that Bush chose the 'unilateralist' action because our allies WOULDN'T police thier own. Kerry doesn't have an effective solution for that problem. He simply hopes that he can put the trust and the lives of the American people into the hands of the UN. In my opinion, such a corrupt organization would, after having been given Kerry's approval, would sacrifice more American lives and trust than Bush ever did on his own.
We lost our allies when we focused on Iraq instead of al-Queda. Bush took a personal agenda and ran with it. Imagine what the war on terrorism would look like today if we had the coalition that Bush,Sr put together. He got antsy and dropped the ball. I don't want us to put our military under the sole control of the UN, but it's better to work with them than against them. Like the old saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar."
That's just silly. If you want to control health care costs, start with litigation and tort reform. Unfortunately, John Edwards got rich off of poor people battling corporations with the all mighty tort. Under Kerry and Edwards, not only would healthcare CONTINUE to spiral in cost, but so would taxes.
A national healthcare program is not "silly". All I see in rebuttal is "Edwards was a lawyer, ACK!" America needs a national health plan for Americans that can't afford insurance. Before you go screaming "they get insurance at work, why don't they get a job" just let me remind you not all companies offer health insurance. Some do just for employees, not family members. Some offer it to employees and family members, but the rates are restrictive. Some (especially construction) don't offer it at all, they hire by contract and have no benifits at all. It's a idea long overdue.
I could be wrong here, but I don't see anything in the term 'Manufacturing jobs tax credit' other than a handout to the AFL-CIO. I'm INCREDIBLY anti-union so I'll stop on this point before I make an bellybutton of myself.
Finally, closing loopholes for corporate tax evasion is a good thing. The fact that they're trying to pin it onto the wave of corporate accounting scandals is shameless. If there was a loophole in the law that allowed me to not pay taxes, I'd use it. What the accounting scandals amount to is me lying to the IRS on my taxes. One is legal, the other isn't.
They are not being procecuted because they used "loopholes'. They are being procecuted because they cooked the books.
Giving credit to companies for not firing Americans and sending their jobs overseas just to boost profits. Taking away credits to those that do sounds like good judgement. Why reward the greedy?
Kerry can't fund all his initiatives by repealing the tax cuts for those who make more than $300,000 a year. It's a mathematical impossibility. It's sad that Kerry believes that they way ahead in America is to punish the successful for succeeding.
You ever think if we quit sending BILLIONS of dollars to Iraq and let the rest of the world share the expense. I didn't see where he planned to completely fund it by the tax cut repeal.
It's a fine goal, but they won't be able to do it. We had a budget surplus under Bill Clinton during the hayday before all that accounting malpractice surfaced on the public radar. At that time, the government was getting it's tax revenue from 'successful' corporations. Waging war on the 'honest' successful corporations that we have left will leave us with nothing. The way out of the deficit is to start an initiative to kill wasteful government spending. It will take longer than 4 years, to kill 50 years of piled up crap.
Who spent the surplus? I agree it will take longer than 4 years to clean up 4 years of piled up crap...maybe 8.:aok
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Wait... they're going to keep people from talking to their Congressman? That's probably the worst idea I've ever heard. And don't get me started on defining 'special interests'.
Where did that come from? The initiative says that it will reinstate a 5 year ban to keep government officials from selling out government to get big corporate jobs in return. That's a bad idea?
What about changing secret deals in Washington by requiring every meeting with a lobbyist or any special interest deal inserted into a bill by a lobbyist be made public. That a bad idea as well? I'm willing to give Kerry a chance at turning this thing around and get America back on track.
(http://www.johnkerry.com/download/submitted/kerry_banner2.gif)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
(checking for last balanced budget.....)
Hey look! it was 1996 to 2000!
Gee, when the economic cycle randomly spikes in one direction, you get more revenue than projected. "Look, I balanced teh budget!". And when it spikes in the other direction, you get less revenue than projected. "TEH DEFICIT OH NOS!!!"
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preon thx you for giving me a headache.....
that Golly-geen post is too long.....
I vote we shot preon so he won't post so long a reply:D
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Originally posted by rpm371
What Kerry is talking about is ending unfunded mandates. Where the federal government makes up a new rule, but forces locals to come up with the money, therefore raising your local taxes to fund it. That way Bush can say he never raised any taxes...he just forced others to do it for him.
NCLB is not a mandate in the terms of "You will ensure that your students can read and add on top of everything else", it's a mandate that states that their students' abilities to read and add is the priority. I remember a couple years ago, my old high school got a ton of money from the tobacco settlements... They spent it on a new football stadium. Instead of funding everything, NCLB demands that schools spend the money they have where it counts most.
regarding free college
I still have no problems with this. Sounds like a great way to get people to pay for college while improving our society. As far as Americans wasting their education, you may be right. But how many jobs require a degree? A lot of them! A great idea for those who want to learn, but can't afford the tuition.
er... $$$
[skip Ashcroft rant... you don't like him... that's your right]
regarding Kerry's energy initiative
You are correct in that we recieve the majority of our oil from the west, but it is still imported. I see becoming energy independant as a good thing. I think we both agree on this point. There are methods of energy available that we are not using and it makes us weaker overall. If we just lower usage enough to quit buying from the middle east, I say good job.
If these other methods were cost effective, we'd be using them already. Instead of promising that the US is going to switch to some wonderful cosmic energy source, it's better to outline a more realistic way to develop it. In the end, we agree here.
[not a lot to work with on the international coalition... I think they're beyond contempt. You don't.]
A national healthcare program is not "silly". All I see in rebuttal is "Edwards was a lawyer, ACK!" America needs a national health plan for Americans that can't afford insurance. Before you go screaming "they get insurance at work, why don't they get a job" just let me remind you not all companies offer health insurance. Some do just for employees, not family members. Some offer it to employees and family members, but the rates are restrictive. Some (especially construction) don't offer it at all, they hire by contract and have no benifits at all. It's a idea long overdue.
You simply can't afford lavish social programs for your entire population and continue to have a growing and innovative society. In my opinion, the government should be responsible for no more than preventing the spread of disease. That being said, a national healthcare system should include mandatory screenings and vaccinations. However, I am not going to pay for the wasteful spending that arises when people undergo unnecessary operations because of the logic 'might as well be safe... besides, the government is paying for it.'
regarding closing loopholes in the tax code
They are not being procecuted because they used "loopholes'. They are being procecuted because they cooked the books.
Giving credit to companies for not firing Americans and sending their jobs overseas just to boost profits. Taking away credits to those that do sounds like good judgement. Why reward the greedy?
Again, I never said closing the loopholes was a bad thing, and companies that lied about thier finances should and are being prosecuted. However, smart business practices do not amount to greed. As I said, the actual number of American jobs outsourced to foreign countries in the last 3 years is negligible compared to the jobs lost in the recession. People can always find a new job. That's the beauty of the free economy. (notice it's getting back on track again) Unless a corporation is retarding our children or destroying our environment, I say stay out of their business.
You ever think if we quit sending BILLIONS of dollars to Iraq and let the rest of the world share the expense.
I think if we stopped rebuilding Iraq the rest of the world would look the other way (and blame us for the result). I think Iraq would become the next Somalia, or what post-Taliban Afghanistan threatens to be: a regionalized area of the world devoid of law and run by tribal warlords. We're trying to prevent terrorism, not feed it.
Who spent the surplus? I agree it will take longer than 4 years to clean up 4 years of piled up crap...maybe 8.:aok
The surplus was an illusion, like the pre-internet bubble economy. It was never really there to be spent.
regarding regulating lobbying
Where did that come from? The initiative says that it will reinstate a 5 year ban to keep government officials from selling out government to get big corporate jobs in return. That's a bad idea?
What about changing secret deals in Washington by requiring every meeting with a lobbyist or any special interest deal inserted into a bill by a lobbyist be made public. That a bad idea as well? I'm willing to give Kerry a chance at turning this thing around and get America back on track.
The problem is that you're taking the government representatives a step back from the people. If I feel SO STRONGLY about an issue that I'm willing to fly to D.C. and talk to my congressman about it, you've just branded me one of those evil 'special interests'. Lobbyists represent every aspect of our society that has a stake in the actions of our government. I'm simply saying that it is impossible to regulate communication with representatives without undermining the essense of democracy.
RPM,
In the end ofcourse, we'll never come to terms. Your ideal government system is based around the principle that freedom means compassion for all. Mine is based around the principle that freedom means personal responsibility for all. I don't see the two ever being reconciled... ofcourse... I'm not running for President. I'm simply voting for Bush.
SLO,
Sorry for giving you a headache, but I like arguing too much.
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I would kick his butt too preon but you didn't leave anything to kick..
democrats are all about unfunded mandates... every program they start is unfunded. it is a drain on our future in every case. Do they start a fund for a program and say "when this runs out we will drop the program"? no... it goes on forever and get's more and more expensive as more and more have their hand out for free stuff. every person and adminestration from then on has to figure out how to pay for it.
Who is stopping us from trying alternative energy? Bush? private industry has spent billions and gotten about the progress that can be expected... it is coming but it is a ways off and nothing any politician says will make it get here any slower or faster. You want to help? give a tax break to any corporation for alternative fuel research (more than now that is). what you dems like to call "corporate welfare".
Basicaly kerry is simply saying that we aren't paying enough taxes to support enough wasteful government programs... What else is new?
If he touts this stuff too much he will be expossed. best to just stick with hollywood Bush bashing... oh wait... people kinda get sick of that sleaze too... maybe another haircut?
lazs