Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on July 09, 2004, 02:06:44 AM
-
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
-
Define Success.
-
From the steps of Philadelphia to the Sea of Tranquility on the moon. Our flag, a symbol of two centuries of freedom and the countless sacrifices made to protect the ideals of liberty and justice, flies above both.
(http://www.powerpointart.com/powerpoint-backgrounds-images/space-images/cernan-salutes-flag.jpg)
Patriots and free citizens
-
Even with its problems, it certainly is a great place to live.
-
Well, I think we are the wealthiest country in the world. We certainly provide our citizens w/ the best opportunitites to achieve happiness/wealth.(according to numbers blurbs)
-
I love my country and I'm proud to be an American.
-
Originally posted by rpm371
I love my country and I'm proud to be an American.
most people love their country and they proud to be what they are.
Im just wondering that americans are the only one who still reapeat it to themself.
-
Because we're self-centered selfish bastards...that what you want to hear?
:aok
Proud to be an American.
-
We certainly provide our citizens w/ the best opportunitites to achieve happiness/wealth.(
So "happiness/wealth" is the same thing too you or is the above a typo?
:rolleyes:
And why your at it, please explain why USA provides thier citizens with the best opportunites to achive happines.
-
Amen Nuke
And all you haters... suck on it.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
The US has its problems (like any country), but it is still a great country.
Well.. maybe... But where is SWEDEN????:confused: :confused:
(http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/kuvat/10002/karu_pohjola.jpg)
:rofl :aok :D :D
-
Originally posted by GScholz
What? It turned into a lake? I hope the Swedes are good swimmers. :D
Wilbuz was in swedish navy wasnt he?? Now he has plenty off space to seek invisible subs!! :D
-
"And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land, God bless the U.S.A"
-
The United States of America has fought and paid with the blood of it's generous people for the liberation of more people around the world than any other country, ever. I'm truly, truly thankful for the opportunity that this great nation offered myself and my people. I am very proud to be an American.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
Let's see
Ireland:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country. Particularly now.
Canada:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
Try it, it works for most countries.
Sweden:
em ...it's hard to argue with success.
We were a good country but now a nice lake for Norway and Finland.
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Let's see
Ireland:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country. Particularly now.
Canada:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
Try it, it works for most countries.
Sweden:
em ...it's hard to argue with success.
We were a good country but now a nice lake for Norway and Finland.
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
Why does it bother you that we do?
-
America, Love it or Leave It! :aok
-
Martlet it doesn't bother me. I'm just curious. I never have to assert my pride in being Irish. I just am what I am. It's an American thing I think. Australians do it to sometimes. Maybe it's a new(ish) country thing?
Why do YOU think it might bother me?
-
Name another coutry where 100s of people die every year trying to get INTO. I can name quite a few where people die trying to get OUT of.
-
Cpxxx it's just exibitionism :p
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Why do YOU think it might bother me?
I just gathered that from your post. It's not the first time I've been mistaken.
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Martlet it doesn't bother me. I'm just curious. I never have to assert my pride in being Irish. I just am what I am. It's an American thing I think. Australians do it to sometimes. Maybe it's a new(ish) country thing?
Why do YOU think it might bother me?
HMMMMMMMM mabye the constant state of civial war that has taken place up untill recently has something to do with you not wanting to take pride in being Irish?
-
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/mm.jpg)
:aok
-
i bet its hard thinking you are the best when a vast quantity of your population has never been to another country.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/mm.jpg)
:aok
Only in the euro mind
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
We have big balls cpxxx, we like to swing them around from time to time.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
UK, Norway, France, Germany ... practically the entire EU ... China .. I'm sure there are more.
:rofl :rofl :rofl:rofl :rofl
-
Originally posted by Furball
i bet its hard thinking you are the best when a vast quantity of your population has never been to another country.
When you are the best you needn't bother with the rest.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
UK, Norway, France, Germany ... practically the entire EU ... China .. I'm sure there are more.
You are confusing the deaths of trying to escape FROM a place. Cubans are not shot or incarcerated for going to Mexico (or France to use your example).
I was talking about risking death to get TO a place. Haitians are not dying by the hundreds each year by trying to get to Jamaica, they die by trying to get to America. Who is actually dying by the hundreds to reach the EU, and how? I have read that most European countries are seeing an overall decline in citizenry, at least a drastically slower increase than the rest of the world.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Thousands of people even flee to China (from NK).
lesser of two evils, do you think these folks would come to the US if they had a chance?
-
rpm... if you love the USA so much then why are yu trying to turn it into europe?
lazs
-
Originally posted by RTStuka
HMMMMMMMM mabye the constant state of civial war that has taken place up untill recently has something to do with you not wanting to take pride in being Irish?
I said :I never have to assert my pride in being Irish.
not that I don't take pride. Just to correct you, it wasn't a civil war. It was about one country controlling a piece of another. I have plenty to be proud of about my country plus a few things I hate.
Name another coutry where 100s of people die every year trying to get INTO. I can name quite a few where people die trying to get OUT of.
100s do die trying to get into Europe every year for much the same reason people want to get to America. The coasts of Spain and Italy have been the scene of many tragedies where boats full of illegal immigrants have sunk. People have died trying to get to Ireland and Britain from France and Belgium. So does that count Edbert?
I agree with nuke
...it's hard to argue with success. We are a good country
But maybe someone could explain why you need to say it so much. In most countries it's implied more than said. I'm genuinely curious. It's an almost uniquely American thing.
-
(http://www.netal.org/american%20flag%20boy%20and%20dog.jpg)
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
lesser of two evils, do you think these folks would come to the US if they had a chance?
They'd prefer SK over china but that darned DMZ thing makes the walk a little tough.
That's because you're ignorant.
...and you're a big fat poo-poo-head...my isn't this mature!
People have died trying to get to Ireland and Britain from France and Belgium. So does that count Edbert?
Well, it is France :) Sure it does, how often does this occur? I thought travel between the two was cheap and easy. It was when I took a Ferry from England to France and then back again from Netherlands to England. Didn't even have to show a passport.
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
From the steps of Philadelphia to the Sea of Tranquility on the moon. Our flag, a symbol of two centuries of freedom and the countless sacrifices made to protect the ideals of liberty and justice, flies above both.
(http://www.powerpointart.com/powerpoint-backgrounds-images/space-images/cernan-salutes-flag.jpg)
Patriots and free citizens
(http://www.hanscom.af.mil/Hansconian/2002/Sep/09062002/Sept%2011%20bombing.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Edbert MOL
They'd prefer SK over china but that darned DMZ thing makes the walk a little tough.
aye, good point
-
if you dotn think the US of A people aenrt good people then you can shuv it where the son dont shine their little woamn. yeah i said it. i dont think you want to tangle up with a ol boy from down around tennessee.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
What does that have to do with it? Yes ... of course immigration is a US only problem. Ignorant.
What it has to do with is there are people living under oppression all over the world looking for a better life.
I never said that it was a immigration problem, you did.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
I think the door should be open to all seeking a better life, but closed to those who wish to do us harm.
oh, and since you want to take this to name calling, your a punk bellybutton *****.
-
America, in two short decades, allowed my famly to go from destitution to wealth, from oppression to freedom of speech and action.
Notice I say 'allowed'... Because you get what you work for.
Inspite of all the problems we have here, I'm proud to be an American. More proud than I ever was of my native land. This is the nation we chose, not were born into, and if I had to make the choice again, it would be the easiest decision of my life.
-
Makes you wonder why so many of these foreign folks get
their panties twisted because someone takes pride in their
country. Did Nuke's post denigrate any of your lands?
Apparently the only country whose culture is not worth
visiting is the one where virtually everyone in it is a decendant
of all the other cultures which you find superior. That's very
strange to me.
It's also more than a little humorous to hear folks with no
clue about American life castigate Americans for not
understanding their little part of the globe.
-
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
Either the Americans are so insecure that they constantly need to "pat eachoters backs" with these kind of posts.
Or
They truly belive they are better then the rest of the world.
-
Originally posted by Maniac
They truly belive they are better then the rest of the world.
We are better than the rest of the world.
Except at soccer.
-
Originally posted by Maniac
Either the Americans are so insecure that they constantly need to "pat eachoters backs" with these kind of posts.
Or
They truly belive they are better then the rest of the world.
Why don't you ask the question of why much of the rest of the world is in constant need of pissing on us?
Perhaps patting our back is just a reaction to that.
God bless those tits on your avatar, tailor made by an American plastic surgeon.
-
Its good to proud of you country, it prolly means that you live a good life.
The borderline between seeming proud and arrogant is very thin, and it is easy to get the wrong message when you belong to another culture.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
That's because you're ignorant. Thousands of people even flee to China (from NK). In Europe hundreds die every year trying their luck in freight containers, cargo ships or small boats fleeing from Africa or the Middle East.
The one who consistently shows ignorance is you by your personal attacks on people who's opinion is clearly more valid than your own.
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
From the steps of Philadelphia to the Sea of Tranquility on the moon. Our flag, a symbol of two centuries of freedom and the countless sacrifices made to protect the ideals of liberty and justice, flies above both.
(http://www.powerpointart.com/powerpoint-backgrounds-images/space-images/cernan-salutes-flag.jpg)
Patriots and free citizens
You don't really believe that we travelled to the moon thing do you?
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Let's see
Ireland:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country. Particularly now.
Canada:
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
Try it, it works for most countries.
Sweden:
em ...it's hard to argue with success.
We were a good country but now a nice lake for Norway and Finland.
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
Inferiority complex?
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
oh, and since you want to take this to name calling, your a punk bellybutton *****.
:)
-
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
America, in two short decades, allowed my famly to go from destitution to wealth, from oppression to freedom of speech and action.
Notice I say 'allowed'... Because you get what you work for.
Inspite of all the problems we have here, I'm proud to be an American. More proud than I ever was of my native land. This is the nation we chose, not were born into, and if I had to make the choice again, it would be the easiest decision of my life.
*wipes tear from eye* great speech man.
-
Wow, this is a thread subject I've never seen before.
I am willing to bet masturbation is a national sport... and I'm willing to bet more on the fact that SOB probably won most awards! (That is... since Eagler no longer managed to "get it up")
-
Originally posted by Furball
i bet its hard thinking you are the best when a vast quantity of your population has never been to another country.
Yes!!! :rofl
Always cracks me up when they have the annual baseball contest, and call it the "World" Series. I mean how many teams enter from outside the US, apart from the Toronto Blue Jays? :lol "We have big balls"
Yeah, but even the Gentiles get clipped! :lol
America is like the proverbial curate's egg - good in parts. And the people are very hospitable. I'll never forget Xmas 1979 in Albuquerque,NM when I was visiting an English friend of mine who was house sitting for his employer. Damned nice house. One of the neighbours brought something round for the house owner on Xmas morning, and when he realised our situation, invited us in for Xmas lunch. I've never forgotten that. hospitable Americans.
-
So "happiness/wealth" is the same thing too you or is the above a typo?
Nice try. There are very few people who are destitute and happy. Like it or not, those that are financially secure tend to be more happy than those that aren't.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Your door is not open to all.
I work in law enforcement 90 miles from the mexican border, those that want in get in.
-
Originally posted by storch
*wipes tear from eye* great speech man.
That was #1127 from my little handbook:)
-
hey furball why u say we not been to other countries why americans in the last 100 years have been to almost all the countries . man we have spent a lot of time in inlighten europe.........we would really love to do nothing but see the sites...alas we have had to spend so much time with a rifle in our hands cleaning up your mess .
-
Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* Do you even know what the word means?
You are not entitled to an opinion. you have used up all your opinion priviliges. your socialist government gave them away to people like....redtail.
-
Originally posted by Maniac
Either the Americans are so insecure that they constantly need to "pat eachoters backs" with these kind of posts.
Or
They truly belive they are better then the rest of the world.
Maniac... It's because we truly believe that we have the best country in the world. There isn't a shred of insecurity or doubt about our country being the best in the hearts of Americans. This is really the case. And whether you think so or not doesn't matter one bit. Whether you call us nieve, ignorant or (place what you are going to say next) . It will never change our belief in the greatness of our country.
Maniac, this belief has nothing to do with you. Honestly, I hope the people of your country feel the same about yours. And that as well... wouldn't have anything to do with us.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
lol Storch, the bait was good, but you yanked to hard on the line. The hook popped right out of my mouth.
what ever do you mean sir???
-
Originally posted by GScholz
So your border police aren't stopping vans trying to smuggle people in at night, and the INS won't deport illegal aliens ... in fact the term "illegal alien" doesn't even exist in the US ... is that right?
Pretty much. The pooch got screwed.
-
Originally posted by storch
When you are the best you needn't bother with the rest.
how do you determine that you are the best ?
2 of you meat and congratulate each other ?
:D
-
Originally posted by Saintaw
masturbation
well... finaly some good suggestion thx :D
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
You don't really believe that we (emphasis from Chairboy) travelled to the moon thing do you?
Nope. In fact, I'm quite certain that no British citizens traveled to the moon.
My hope is that you and your countrymen will have that chance soon, and I hope that it will be on a ship launching out of Mojave with a great big USA flag on the side.
Capitalism and free enterprise, the bull on which freedom rides. Sure, if it throws you, it can kill you, but as long as you stay on top, you're a tremendous force to be reckoned with.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
So your border police aren't stopping vans trying to smuggle people in at night, and the INS won't deport illegal aliens ... in fact the term "illegal alien" doesn't even exist in the US ... is that right?
you missed the point, again.
-
Originally posted by lada
how do you determine that you are the best ?
2 of you meat and congratulate each other ?
:D
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif)
-
Originally posted by Martlet
We are better than the rest of the world.
Except at soccer.
But then again.....who cares about soccer?
-
Beet1e, it's easy. We are the best period. Of course, when we are the judges, we make the rules of assessment...
Now take Great Britain for example.... Kicked their butts in the 18th century, bailed said butts in the 20th century. By definition, we are better........ (SIMPLY AN EXAMPLE. DON'T GO NUTS).
God bless the USA.
America - the only superpower in the world.
America - the first country that could rule the earth, and doesn't.
America - the first country that could take any land from anyone, anytime.... and doesn't.
In fact, in saving other nations, all the land we've ever asked for was to bury the Americans not coming home...............
Not the best? Don't try to tell me that.
-
Amazing, an upbeat thread turned to crap in a few hours.
-
Come on SOB, it's a light hearted exchange.....only some folks get wrapped around the axle too tightly...
Even my comments were tongue in cheek...I think Beet1e is British, so I picked on him. (since he was insulted we had voted ourselves "best").
Life is too short...Enjoy what we have.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
"And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free.
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land, God bless the U.S.A"
Oh no... not Lee Greenwood... no... NOOOOOO!
-
Originally posted by TalonX
America - the only superpower in the world.
imao wake up little boy and have a look around
-
Originally posted by lada
imao wake up little boy and have a look around [/QUOTE
Name another that compares to the USA.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Originally posted by lada
imao wake up little boy and have a look around [/QUOTE
Name another that compares to the USA. [/B]
China
-
Originally posted by lada
China
While China surely has a large standing force, it's behind in technology and training. It hardly rivals the US.
-
Originally posted by lada
most people love their country and they proud to be what they are.
Im just wondering that americans are the only one who still reapeat it to themself.
I think it's a defensive reaction to all the bashing we get from alot of people around the world, not to mention the liberal Hollywood types who tell us we ought to be ashamed for being an American. Everyone wants to be liked, and we're no exception. So when someone from another country disses us we tend to get a little huffy, especially if that person is from a country we helped out in a significant way sometime within recent memory.
-
Originally posted by sling322
But then again.....who cares about soccer?
the rest of the world ?
;)
-
Originally posted by Martlet
While China surely has a large standing force, it's behind in technology and training. It hardly rivals the US.
Aha... so you still belive, that chinese soldiers drive horses and fight with sabers, dont you ?
You didnt provide any single fact and you repeat again same BS....
typical
-
Originally posted by slimm50
So when someone from another country disses us we tend to get a little huffy, especially if that person is from a country we helped out in a significant way sometime within recent memory.
That part I can understand.
-
Originally posted by lada
Aha... so you still belive, that chinese soldiers drive horses and fight with sabers, dont you ?
You didnt provide any single fact and you repeat again same BS....
typical
Oh, you mean facts as good as the ones you provided?
HAHAHA.
You know it's true, you're just playing the ignorant card in hopes to stall your argument.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
You don't really believe that we travelled to the moon thing do you?
Hope you're strapped into your fighting chair, and the boat's in neutral...you've set the troll of a lifetime...
-
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Hope you're strapped into your fighting chair, and the boat's in neutral...you've set the troll of a lifetime...
:rofl :rofl So true
-
Originally posted by Martlet
You know it's true, you're just playing the ignorant card in hopes to stall your argument.
are you sure that you do not look into the mirror ?
-
Originally posted by lada
are you sure that you do not look into the mirror ?
Excellent come back! Boy, I can't beat you in a battle of wits!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
-
Originally posted by mipoikel
Well.. maybe... But where is SWEDEN????:confused: :confused:
(http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/kuvat/10002/karu_pohjola.jpg)
:rofl :aok :D :D
ROFLMAO
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Excellent come back! Boy, I can't beat you in a battle of wits!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
there will be more come backs..... 2 more vacation scheduled this year.
-
Originally posted by classy man
if you dotn think the US of A people aenrt good people then you can shuv it where the son dont shine their little woamn. yeah i said it. i dont think you want to tangle up with a ol boy from down around tennessee.
CRAP I LAUGHED SO HARD I HAD A COUGHING FIT
-
Soccer - Game for gentlemen played by hooligans.
Rugby - Game for hooligans palyed by gentlemen.
American Football - Played by something wearing ever so pretty lots of pads.
Seriously, lived in the U.S. 4 years now, yup it's a good country, but like all countries has its problems. The 'best' country temds to be the one you are from, that won't change.
One little obsevation about the Apollo missions someone mentioned - don't forget American astronauts using German designed rocketry. No I'm not German, just thought I'd point it out.
Proud of being Scottish, gave the world television, tar for roads etc etc. Even the English invented the toilet seat, of course took a Scotsman to put a hole in it. ;)
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Yes!!! :rofl
Always cracks me up when they have the annual baseball contest, and call it the "World" Series. I mean how many teams enter from outside the US, apart from the Toronto Blue Jays? :lol Yeah, but even the Gentiles get clipped! :lol
For the zillionth time, the World Series was named during a time (1903) when the sport of professional baseball was played nowhere else on the planet. It truly was the world championship of professional baseball.
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
It's an American thing I think. Australians do it to sometimes. Maybe it's a new(ish) country thing?
You're just jealous of their cash and our climate ;)
The similarities between Aussies and Yanks are far far more than our differances too, so it isnt all that much of a suprise to find the people are alike in our pride.
It's just that both countries originated as penal colonies, and both now enjoy an equal, if not better quality of life than the countries from which our ancestors came.
In a sense it could be you are right about it being a 'new' country thing, we don't have thousand year old grudges against our neighbours. Allso, as someone mentioned, our cultures (American and Australian) arent singular, we have a huge mix of peoples from all over the globe, each of whom bring the best aspects of their heritage and culture with them, usually leaving behind the things that cause thousand year grudges.
Funnily enough, we happen to have strong military alliances and economic/trade agreements with each other too.
In short, it's because just like the good ol' US of A, we too rock ;)
BTW, who is this 'sometimes' we are apparently doing it to?
Oh yeah Yanks, not everyone hates ya :)
Wouldn't swap for the world, but I would be proud too, were I you.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Yes!!! :rofl
Always cracks me up when they have the annual baseball contest, and call it the "World" Series. I mean how many teams enter from outside the US, apart from the Toronto Blue Jays? :lol Yeah, but even the Gentiles get clipped! :lol
For the zillionth time, the World Series was named during a time (1903) when the sport of professional baseball was played nowhere else on the planet. It truly was the world championship of professional baseball.
-
Originally posted by demaw1
hey furball why u say we not been to other countries why americans in the last 100 years have been to almost all the countries . man we have spent a lot of time in inlighten europe.........we would really love to do nothing but see the sites...alas we have had to spend so much time with a rifle in our hands cleaning up your mess .
I know, it's so funny when they say stuff like Furball did. We have more people overseas than any other country. So many that they whine about it.
-
Originally posted by Bluedog
You're just jealous of their cash and our climate ;)
The similarities between Aussies and Yanks are far far more than our differances too, so it isnt all that much of a suprise to find the people are alike in our pride.
If the dang plane trip didnt take so long I would love to visit.
-
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Hope you're strapped into your fighting chair, and the boat's in neutral...you've set the troll of a lifetime...
Heh, n00b5.
Search for "VFghosty"
-
Originally posted by lada
Aha... so you still belive, that chinese soldiers drive horses and fight with sabers, dont you ?
You didnt provide any single fact and you repeat again same BS....
typical
Here's a fact, the Chicoms can't support an amphibious
invasion to Taiwan, how they gonna invade the US?
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Soccer - Game for gentlemen played by hooligans.
Rugby - Game for hooligans palyed by gentlemen.
American Football - Played by something wearing ever so pretty lots of pads.
Seriously, lived in the U.S. 4 years now, yup it's a good country, but like all countries has its problems. The 'best' country temds to be the one you are from, that won't change.
One little obsevation about the Apollo missions someone mentioned - don't forget American astronauts using German designed rocketry. No I'm not German, just thought I'd point it out.
Proud of being Scottish, gave the world television, tar for roads etc etc. Even the English invented the toilet seat, of course took a Scotsman to put a hole in it. ;)
Haggis, you forgot haggis. oh and world class shepards as well.
-
Originally posted by Rino
Here's a fact, the Chicoms can't support an amphibious
invasion to Taiwan, how they gonna invade the US?
Ehh ? When did we start to speak about invasion to US ?
-
Originally posted by TalonX
America - the first country that could rule the earth, and doesn't.
America - the first country that could take any land from anyone, anytime.... and doesn't.
now that is funny....christ your fighting a 3rd world country and having a tough time of it.
delusion of grandeur run rampante in your family
and you already tried to take mine....and got your a** kicked back and your white house burned down....
wanna try again :p
-
One little obsevation about the Apollo missions someone mentioned - don't forget American astronauts using German designed rocketry. No I'm not German, just thought I'd point it out.
Yup, the German scientists that the USA captured beat the German scientists that the Russians captured to the moon...LOL! I'm not German either but my family emigrated to central texas from Frankfurt in 1852.
-
Originally posted by lada
Ehh ? When did we start to speak about invasion to US ?
Well, that would be a contributing factor to your claim that China is a superpower to rival the USA.
-
I lived in the US - married an American. Could have stayed - Thanks, but no thanks.
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Inferiority complex?
thousands of moon rocks in museums and you think it was faked
ignorance trully is bliss.......
-
Originally posted by X2Lee
thousands of moon rocks in museums and you think it was faked
ignorance trully is bliss.......
Armstrong said.....
one small step for man....
one giant leap for mankind....
no political agenda upon landing on the moon....why you trying to make 1 now
-
Originally posted by SLO
Armstrong said.....
one small step for man....
one giant leap for mankind....
no political agenda upon landing on the moon....why you trying to make 1 now
*In my best klinton impersonation* depends on the meaning of the word "mankind"
-
Originally posted by NUKE
...it's hard to argue with success.
We are a good country.
Yes, is a good country,
but she had some bad moments.
Like the others.
-
i bet its hard thinking you are the best when a vast quantity of your population has never been to another country.
heheh, this one is funny.
First, most of our states are bigger than most countries.
Two, we have so much to see and do right here, we don't necessarily need to go to other countries.
Three, you walk the streets of any major European city and you will see plenty of Americans (pudgy ones with those damn belly pouch things and camerans).
Four, for us it requires a lot more travel to get to a foreign country than it does for the average European.
dago
-
Originally posted by beet1e
I lived in the US - married an American. Could have stayed - Thanks, but no thanks.
Fish n' chips not to your standards? :p
-
Originally posted by SLO
christ your fighting a 3rd world country and having a tough time of it.
LOL
-
Originally posted by SOB
Even with its problems, it certainly is a great place to live.
-
Originally posted by SOB
Even with its problems, it certainly is a great place to live.
-
Originally posted by Dago
heheh, this one is funny.
First, most of our states are bigger than most countries.
Two, we have so much to see and do right here, we don't necessarily need to go to other countries.
Three, you walk the streets of any major European city and you will see plenty of Americans (pudgy ones with those damn belly pouch things and camerans).
Four, for us it requires a lot more travel to get to a foreign country than it does for the average European.
dago
Bollocks, banana-Dago. Britain is a "tiny little island", and yet is bigger than about 40 of the US states. Britain is about the size of OR - 10th largest.
As for "not needing" to go to any other countries, No-one "needs" to go to USA - McDonalds is in just about every country you care to name. I have everything I need right here. But that is a plebian point of view, completely consistent with Dago.
I've never been to OZ/NZ, but I'd like to go there. -Even though I don't *NEED* to go there.
Someone once asked me what was the American word for "banana". I said there wasn't an equivalent word. But I was not believed. "There's gotta be a word for it", my friend asserted. "After all, there's enough of 'em out there!!" :lol
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Bollocks, banana-Dago. Britain is a "tiny little island", and yet is bigger than about 40 of the US states. Britain is about the size of OR - 10th largest.
As for "not needing" to go to any other countries, No-one "needs" to go to USA - McDonalds is in just about every country you care to name. I have everything I need right here. But that is a plebian point of view, completely consistent with Dago.
I've never been to OZ/NZ, but I'd like to go there. -Even though I don't *NEED* to go there.
Someone once asked me what was the American word for "banana". I said there wasn't an equivalent word. But I was not believed. "There's gotta be a word for it", my friend asserted. "After all, there's enough of 'em out there!!" :lol
Apparently you needed to come here to find a mate. women are so gullible they are emotionally somewhat like .... redtail
-
ok, thats it, morph i had enough, cant take it anymore, put a top on her or i will come thru this screen and take her believe me i can.......................... ............................. ............................. ......lol
-
Originally posted by SLO
Armstrong said.....
one small step for man....
one giant leap for mankind....
no political agenda upon landing on the moon....why you trying to make 1 now
I was responding to an idjit, much like I am doing now.
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Cannot deny the USA is a good country, can't get enough of it myself. But why the constant need to assert it?
Bluedog, had a good point, IMHO.
A country inhabitated by individuals coming from largely different countries, missing a "people-like" connettive tissue, the type of force that, in the so-called old world, is given from the common longtime story and culture.
This "immigrant-based" country have the need to develope a different force to gather the people in to the social pact.
In the good, 'ol U.S.A., this force is basicly the sybolism associated to the state, the nation:
Flag, constitution, recent history, repulse and dissociacion from the original of each one.
And the common feeling is the patriotism, a strong patriotism.
This patriotism, like the one showed by nuke and others, not a sick way to feel proud of their country, is what, in the end, disturb so much many Euro types.
For a simple reason.
The patriotism, pushed to the extreme, is what the 2 main dictatorship of the just passed century have used to gather the people, win the resistence to jump in a new war just after the devastating first one, up to the theories about the superiority of a race over the others.
In a word, when many Euros see too much patriotism, they smell "nazi-fascism", and jump on the chair, the pain is still strong.
But, in my opinion, the USA seem enough resistent to not go down that road, the road of dictatorship.
Well, anyway, we will see in november. ;)
-
Originally posted by X2Lee
I was responding to an idjit, much like I am doing now.
ok....
now why the low blow....
-
Naso, good post.
Patriotism here is less these days than in the past. It's just that the world gets to see it more on TV and the Intardnet. So I don't think you should worry about any extreme changes. If anything, people are more and more skeptical of the government, and are better informed.
Also, for a lot of us, the patriotic feeling is not for the government, but for the people and culture. We solve problems together and help each other and "stick up" for each other when bad things happen. This would happen even without the government. It's like being part of the world's biggest and toughest family (or gang).
-
Geez,
What abunch of hang-wringing Euro's. American Nationalism! The Sky is falling, The Sky is falling!!:rolleyes:
We just celebrated our Independance Day, let us have a moment to be happy and proud of our country.....
So how about a nice Cup O' STFU!!
America ROCKS, No doubt about it.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by SOB
Amazing, an upbeat thread turned to crap in a few hours.
Don't act so surprised. It was bound to happen, and will happen again. And again.
-
and again:D
-
Beetle ,
You dont make any sense. I said "most countries", not all. I didn't say anything about England.
I didn't say anything about Brits or anyone else needing to travel. I only said Americans don't really need to. If you want to imagine an inference, go ahead, but none was meant.
As far as an American word for "banana", I just call them "beetles". :D I guess you guys had to select a word for it, the words "the majority of Brits" is probably just to long. :D
Regarding my first statement in this response, I don't expect much sense from an inebriate.
warmest regards,
dago
-
Originally posted by SLO
ok....
now why the low blow....
Because
now that is funny....christ your fighting a 3rd world country and having a tough time of it.
I dont like you ;)
-
Originally posted by SLO
ok....
now why the low blow....
Because
now that is funny....christ your fighting a 3rd world country and having a tough time of it.
I dont like you ;)
-
So how about a nice Cup O' STFU!!
Do they still sell that in Europe?
-
Well, anyway, we will see in november.
\
What is the implication? Bush is Hitler??:rolleyes:
If the American People reelect him then we are headed down the road to Facism?!?!?
WTF...........
Is there something in the water in Europe? Did the genepool get thinned that bad 60 years ago?
:confused:
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by lada
Aha... so you still belive, that chinese soldiers drive horses and fight with sabers, dont you ?
You didnt provide any single fact and you repeat again same BS....
typical
A single formation of B-52's bombing the Yangtze River dams would break the backbone of China.
But, I agree, USA is where I was born, and the best damn country in the world.
Karaya
-
Yup beetle 'Britain' is a small isalnd, a small island that once 'owned' 25% of the world.
-
America is my birthplace, and I feel blessed to have been born here.
As a child of about 12, I wondered why I was so lucky to be born here while others had been born into nations at war, in extreme poverty or oppression. I still feel almost guilty for having the luck of having simply having been born into a nation such as ours.
I am very proud of my country. I believe we are a great nation and a peaceful nation.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup beetle 'Britain' is a small isalnd, a small island that once 'owned' 25% of the world.
Britain is one of the greatest nations the earth has ever seen. Britain has had more influence on the modern world than any other nation.
-
It's hokey, but its true -- USA offers opportunity like few other nations in history, and its culture wants to do the right thing.
1) There's never been an aristocracy, and even most of the wealthy consider themselves middle class. With education (not always as available as should be), work, and good fortune anyone can succeed. Some make it big time, but far more important are the average folks who move up steadily. My paternal great grandfather was an Irish wheelwright, my grandfather was executive in charge of food service for Eastern Airlines, my father a computer systems analyst. Another graeat grandfather was a coal miner, and my maternal grandfather was a depression era subsistance farmer. My mom was a nurse, and I'm a professional. No upper class to look down on me, no one to spite me because my ancestors were from a certain group. Nobody gets respect because of who they were born to -- we value who they are. As a country, we seem to think that most problems have a solution, and while we sometimes grab an easy answer we at least try to do something. We're not perfect by any means, and I'm often embarassed by my countrymen -- but I'm glad I was born where I was.
2) "realpolitik" -- as I understand it, tempering the "right" thing with compromise to get a "good" thing done -- has never caught on here. IN the Imperialist era, when US "aquired" possessions as "protectorates", we expressly planned to give freedom and self government to those possessions. Although I'm a little ashamed at how we defined "rebels" in the 1900-1920 period, we had explicit timelines and programs in place before WW2 to give freedom to the phillipines by the 40s; unlike the european powers whose concerns after the war lead to political and military fights to keep their possessions. Freedom and justice motivate us to altruistic acts -- like intervention in wars that have less than obvious impact on our country. We went to Somalia to stabilize and feed a country, because it seemed like the right thing to do. In fact, values play such a role in our culture that even when politicians are crass and manipulating they have to pay lip service to justice. That's why politician's "moral failings" (hwever you chose to define them) play such a substantial role here that europeans often dont see what the big deal is. Yes, we make mistakes, and like an impetuous teenager we may react before thinking everything thru. We are often more sure of ourselves than we should be, and we may not listen to afvice that well.
But, we're there when needed. Even when people are brutal or ungrateful, we're there. As for "third world countries" that we "can't handle" -- that's only because we want to do what's right. If we wanted to be fascist, no htird world country on earth could last a month. Iraq looks troubled because we limit ourselves -- if we chose to behave like Saddam or Idi Amin or Assad even King Hussein, Iraq would have been "pacified" long ago. Saddam used chemical weapons for YEARS, incontrovertibly, adn the UN ignored him. (It got so bad that the inspectors, when asked to evaluate the possiblity of chem weapons use in the 80's refused to produce another report -- they said the facts are known, and the next question is what to do about the facts.) The free world did nothing, ignoring human rights abuses that resulted in the deaths of thousands. The world ignores slavery in Sudan. The world ignores a lot of evil.
So why is so much attention and anger directed to the US? We try to do something where we can. We are reviled for going to Iraq. We DID SOMETHING about a man who did much evil. Should we have "contained" him? SHould we have "contained" Hitler in europe, leaving the french, belgians, austrians, poles, czechs, et al. to be liquidated gradually? Those living under the Nazis would not have appreciated that, and in any case it was RIGHT to fight for the freedom of others. We certainly could have isolated Hitler in europe, adn it would have saved American lives without materially harming us. OK, continental europe would have all fallen under the Iron Curtain, but europeans like us to be isolationist anyway.
Economics are not everything, but opportunity IS valuable. Freedom is great, and the US has arguably done more to export it than any country in history. WE're not always right, we may be on average historicaly and culturally ignorant -- but its still a great place. The world has been a better place because the USA existed.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
China invading the US is ridiculous ... just as ridiculous as the US invading China.
I don't think MacArthur thought invading China so ridiculous. Never know what the future holds.
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Naso, good post.
Patriotism here is less these days than in the past. It's just that the world gets to see it more on TV and the Intardnet. So I don't think you should worry about any extreme changes. If anything, people are more and more skeptical of the government, and are better informed.
Also, for a lot of us, the patriotic feeling is not for the government, but for the people and culture. We solve problems together and help each other and "stick up" for each other when bad things happen. This would happen even without the government. It's like being part of the world's biggest and toughest family (or gang).
ding ding ding!!!
I'd be willing to bet that at any given time during the day/month/year 1/2 the country hates our government. But close to 100% are patriotic about our great country. Heck, everybody I voted for the past 2 elections are in office and I still think our government sucks badly, but it's still the best that's ever been. And our country is and hopefully will be the shining light of hope for millions of people around the world.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
-
Dear non-American:
Hehehe, love your country, wherever you are from. Post it here on the boards how much you love your country. Tell the BBS readers why you think it's the best.
If you love your country, think it's the best place to live in the world, great! I promise not to disagree.
now that is funny....christ your fighting a 3rd world country and having a tough time of it.
BTW Slo, where are we having trouble?
Admit it, when we fought like we meant business we kicked the crap out of the third(fourth?) largest standing army in the world in record time.
Your above statement was inappropriate and inaccurate.
-
Naso and others.
It is not that we are missing a people like connective tissue, we never wanted one.That is why the founding fathers gave us an idea based on Judeo/Christian principles.The [force] for americans is not symbolism associated with state or nation, that is why you dont hear father/mother land much. Although it is being attacked what holds us together is the idea,1.GOD 2.constitution/bill of rights 3. liberty.America believes in liberty, Europe believes in equality.We have a strong patriotism not to the father/mother land,but to the constitution/bill of rights and liberty.Each of us are a living part of the constitution/bill of rights. We are not loyal to a father/mother land,king or the name of a country,but to liberty and each other.Have we done wrong ,you bet your life we have and we have at times dearly paid for it.It wasnt patriotism that led Europe to give the world nazism, fascism, communism and imperialism.Rather it was the inability to identify evil and take action against it.Some of Europe still have that problem hence the hate and bash America crowd. Therefore Europe over time has been able to kill millions upon millions of it's own citizens even in the last hundred years. George Washington wrote if America allows itself to be entangled in the affairs of Europe, America over time will cease to exist. 40% to maybe 45% of America has embraced European values. We now are in a bloodless civil war for the hearts and minds of America. Unfortunately I think we will lose. That is sad because next time Europe cries out for help there will be no America to help save them.
-
So.... as an atheist, I can't be a proud american?
The USA is about a lot more then your god.
-
I love how a lot of liberal and conservative American members of this BB have both expressed their love and dedication to our country, regardless of politics. It demostrates, on a small scale, how united we really are as a nation.
-
SIMARIL
I read your post after I posted mine,I have to say thank you .I am very impressed,and it was a pleasure to read .
-
Chairboy,
You made my point we are in a civil war,you fool is that all u got out of that.I dont give a rats bellybutton if u are atheist,hedonist, or any other religion like it or not this countrywas founded on those principles .Because of those principles this is the only country ever that tolerated all religions,Freedom of religion, Freedom of no religion......but not freedom from religion there fore if I want to read a bible at a bus stop and u dont like it....you can go take a flying f**k at a rolling donut
-
I didn't quite get that, something about donuts?
-
Everybody repeat after me:
I'm proud to be a citizen of [insert your country here].
It's the best country in the world. Full of the best and kindest people in the world.
Naturally, [insert your country here] being the best country in the world has nothing to do with the fact that I am a citizen of [insert your country here], but is an objective and self evident truth, and everyone else in their heart of hearts wishes they were just like me.
-
No doubt about it China is the best country on earth eh dead... Democracy? What, when?
Enjoy the right to protest in your little enclave while you still can..
:rofl
-
Morning Dago! Hehe, we're keeping it civil. I'll condense what I was trying to say.
Lada asked how do you know when your country is the best: Do two people walk up to and congratulate each other? - LOL
And as Furball pointed out, for Americans to be claiming that theirs is the "best" country in the world rings a bit hollow, when most of 'em haven't been anywhere else. So then the tired old argument gets trotted out: "We don't *need* to go anywhere else; we have everything we *need* here" - by which is meant that "we" have WalMart, MacDonalds, Burger King, gas at ~$2 a gallon, drive in movies, freeways, guns, muscle cars, popcorn, shopping malls with 10,000 parking spaces, Sears, JC Penny, air conditioners and the "World" Series...
...all of which misses the point. I would like to see some places of historical interest, perhaps some of the seven wonders of the world (none of which is in the USA) even though I don't *NEED* to do this. :rolleyes:
By the way, did I tell you that my house is the best house in the street? I know this even though I haven't lived in any of the others. I don't need to - I have everything I need here! :lol
Kev367 - yep, Britain owned at least 25% of the world back in the 18th century - and possibly more like 33%, and had the most powerful Navy in the world. And as little as 50 years ago, we had a car industry which was the biggest car exporter in the world.
Simaril - interesting post. No aristocracy indeed. One of the things that PM Margaret Thatcher tried to do was to create a Meritocracy by creating the conditions under which Entrepreneurialism could succeed. That involved cuttings taxes (top rate by more than half) and educating people to understand that "Profit" is not a dirty word, as it was deemd to be in the socialist 1970s Britain.
We still have an Aristocracy of course. What happened was that in the Middle Ages, someone might get created an Earl for services to the King - perhaps in battles - it was all about money and power. The new Earl would have a stately home built for him, servants, a large parcel of land - the works. He would be set up for life. But of course, when he died, the Earldom would need to pass down to a male heir. The heirs need have done nothing at all to deserve it, but what else could they do? They could hardly hand the earldom back to the King. So even now in the present day, we have for example the 17th Earl of Pembroke residing at Wilton House near Salisbury - a property that has simply passed down 17 generations of the family. Story here (http://www.stately-homes.com/areas/details.asp?HID=2277&ID=1870&path=12,23,99,1870).
Of course this is a nonsense in some cases. The whole farce was packaged into a 1972 movie called "The Ruling Class", in which the 13th Earl of Gurney accidentally hanged himself with a ligature, and the earldom passed to his son who became the 14th Earl - a deranged man who had spent 7 years in a mental institution, thought he was God, managed to convince bystanders that he was in fact sane as he inherited the earldom, and went on to take his seat in the House of Lords - LOL.
-
as an atheist, I can't be a proud american?
Atheist? Kill'em, he's diffrant than us!
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
Martlet it doesn't bother me. I'm just curious. I never have to assert my pride in being Irish. I just am what I am. It's an American thing I think. Australians do it to sometimes. Maybe it's a new(ish) country thing?
Why do YOU think it might bother me?
Actually most Australians scornfully find gratuitous flag waving, and patting yourself on the back activites what we like to call in Aus:
Being a bit of a banana
Australians usually only indulge in such silly things mostly overseas....only when pissed and when some kind of sport (usually rugby or cricket) is involved.
Or playing England in said sports at home...
Originally posted by Bluedog
You're just jealous of their cash and our climate ;)
The similarities between Aussies and Yanks are far far more than our differances too, so it isnt all that much of a suprise to find the people are alike in our pride.
It's just that both countries originated as penal colonies, and both now enjoy an equal, if not better quality of life than the countries from which our ancestors came.
In a sense it could be you are right about it being a 'new' country thing, we don't have thousand year old grudges against our neighbours. Allso, as someone mentioned, our cultures (American and Australian) arent singular, we have a huge mix of peoples from all over the globe, each of whom bring the best aspects of their heritage and culture with them, usually leaving behind the things that cause thousand year grudges.
Funnily enough, we happen to have strong military alliances and economic/trade agreements with each other too.
In short, it's because just like the good ol' US of A, we too rock ;)
BTW, who is this 'sometimes' we are apparently doing it to?
Oh yeah Yanks, not everyone hates ya :)
Wouldn't swap for the world, but I would be proud too, were I you.
Well...not everyone can be tops mate...
Tronsky
-
Beet1e, dont kill me! :D Found this...
Crossing practise ( PDF-file) (http://www.savanne.org/kuvat/crossing.pdf)
-
LOL Mipoikel! Do you know Mechanic/Batfink? There's one of those right in the middle of his town. I will have to drive around it on Tuesday night. :(
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No doubt about it China is the best country on earth eh dead... Democracy? What, when?
Enjoy the right to protest in your little enclave while you still can..
:rofl
That's right, Grunny, keep telling yourself everyone in their heart of hearts wishes they were just like you.
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Naso, good post.
Thanks :)
Patriotism here is less these days than in the past. It's just that the world gets to see it more on TV and the Intardnet. So I don't think you should worry about any extreme changes. If anything, people are more and more skeptical of the government, and are better informed.
I know little about the people that is around your actual president, but what I heard wo far was scaring.
I have studyed my own nation's history, even the part that in some way, being a shame, it's someway... forgotten (at least the historians and analysts seem to try).
Last time something similar of the ???? manifesto (Cheney and others, or is lieber-something?) has been said here, my people has awaken wearing black shirts, gassing Lybians and Ethiopians to "bring them civilization" :rolleyes: , and siding another black wearing people in a bloody try to subjugate and conquer the entire world.
And has been a tough and painfull awakening.
So, try to understand why I am so... well, scared it's the right word, when I fear (and I hope to be absolutely wrong) a similar awakening for you.
Also, for a lot of us, the patriotic feeling is not for the government, but for the people and culture.
Yep, I understand and agree, maybe I was'nt clear in my post about it.
We solve problems together and help each other and "stick up" for each other when bad things happen. This would happen even without the government. It's like being part of the world's biggest and toughest family (or gang).
And this is one of the thing that I like more of the people of USA.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
\
What is the implication? Bush is Hitler??:rolleyes:
If the American People reelect him then we are headed down the road to Facism?!?!?
WTF...........
Is there something in the water in Europe? Did the genepool get thinned that bad 60 years ago?
:confused:
Crumpp
I have tryied to explain that it's a fear, not a convinction.
I have tryied to explain that this fear is an experience that my people have lived in the worst way.
I have tryied to keep this exchange civil and constructive.
Maybe this is not your aim, ok, fine.
But, willing or unwilling, our respective peoples, USA, Italy, and the rest of Europe, Australia and New Zealand, Canada, in short, the western world, have to walk a common road for a while, or for ever, and will be better to learn from each other, and not to fight useless battles between us.
And the "november" sentence was a joke.
-
oh, a last thing:
Yes, the genepool in Europe has been thinned, in WWI and WW2, and during the very bad periods following both of the wars, periods that have forced a lot of people to move to another place.
In fact, being humans, we share the same genepool, have you forgot it?
-
Originally posted by Steve
Dear non-American:
Hehehe, love your country, wherever you are from. Post it here on the boards how much you love your country. Tell the BBS readers why you think it's the best.
If you love your country, think it's the best place to live in the world, great! I promise not to disagree.
I love my country.
Our constitution has been writed in 1946.
Our flag has been invented in 1848.
Our official language is one of the dialects that have become common starting from 1861.
Our nation, as a new entity, has been founded in 1861.
But my people, my people's culture share common roots and has become a people since more than 2.000 years, being descendant of the Romans, the first force that unifyed the people, used a common language that last in part, or traces, in the languages most spoken in the world (with the exception of chineese), and estabilished the time count that almost the entire world use now.
Not bad, uh? ;)
-
Originally posted by demaw1
Naso and others.
It is not that we are missing a people like connective tissue, we never wanted one.That is why the founding fathers gave us an idea based on Judeo/Christian principles.The [force] for americans is not symbolism associated with state or nation, that is why you dont hear father/mother land much.
A people-like tissue, at the moment, will be a danger for your state.
Give it time, and you will develope a tissue more deep than the social pact, common language, and economic rules, and become a complete Nation.
And there are already signs of this change to come.
(disclaimer: this is said without intent to bash or harm, I may go so far to say that is said with love)
Although it is being attacked what holds us together is the idea,1.GOD 2.constitution/bill of rights 3. liberty.America believes in liberty, Europe believes in equality.We have a strong patriotism not to the father/mother land,but to the constitution/bill of rights and liberty.Each of us are a living part of the constitution/bill of rights.
Well, reason 1. is a danger, state and religion are better to be separate, look at the mess that mixing it has made in the muslim countries.
We are not loyal to a father/mother land,king or the name of a country,but to liberty and each other.
It's not the name, it's not the king (gosh, we kicked them out in '46), and it's something more deep than the simple father/mother land.
Have we done wrong ,you bet your life we have and we have at times dearly paid for it.It wasnt patriotism that led Europe to give the world nazism, fascism, communism and imperialism.Rather it was the inability to identify evil and take action against it.
I disagree, the perception of wrong and right, good and evil, it's based on the moral values, theese values change over time, and from people to people.
Your actual moral values, very similar to mines, I bet, are not absolute, ence not absolutely correct, but at the moment they seem the most evoluted available, and they will keep evolving.
Some of Europe still have that problem hence the hate and bash America crowd. Therefore Europe over time has been able to kill millions upon millions of it's own citizens even in the last hundred years.
Europe it's not yet a single entity, even if the efforts are big to become it, the problem to kill each other in the numbers of millions it's still a problem of the entire humankind.
Hate seem the preferred sport of this strange, sublime being that is called Homo Sapiens Sapiens
George Washington wrote if America allows itself to be entangled in the affairs of Europe, America over time will cease to exist. 40% to maybe 45% of America has embraced European values.
America is founded on the European values, how can you not see this?
From where the culture of your founding fathers come from, mate?
We now are in a bloodless civil war for the hearts and minds of America. Unfortunately I think we will lose.
No comment.
That is sad because next time Europe cries out for help there will be no America to help save them.
Uh, oh, not this, please, not this trap again.
The "we saved your ass" card has been played a lot here, I have hoped we can fly higher than this.
;)
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
So.... as an atheist, I can't be a proud american?
The USA is about a lot more then your god.
Atheist eh? actually that is very disingenuos. you believe in some form of a god. perhaps you are too lazy to invest deep thought on the subject or are intellectually dishonest. The choice is between two gods. That choice is God the creator or god the adversary. No choice is still a choice.
But you only have this lifetime to decide. If not then breakout the asbestos underware. Eternity is a lonnnnnnnnnnnng time.
Everything in nature points to intelligent design.
-
I am Hyperproductive this morning :)
The comment about the commonground regarding values between Europe and USA, has ringed a bell in my mind.
USA it's Europe's dream.
Wait!! wait!!
Dont jump on your chair, let me explain. :)
In a dark Europe, where a new set of moral values were evolving, many strong powers were fighting the hard way to keep the status quo, the people enbracing theese newborn values was pushing, even fighting to change society, many of this try ended in bloodbaths.
Meanwhile, some of this "new" people, decided to move in a land where those powers were weaker, a land where with less effort, a new society cut have been founded from scratch.
The birdth of USA has been a dream coming true, for many of the people that remained, in some way, to keep the "bad" powers busy at home.
Since then, USA has become the land of the dream, where the tired fighter would have found his rest, europe has continued to give his contribute in fresh blood, new dreamers, to keep the dream going.
Europe is like the father, that has kept to put his hands in the dirt work, working hard and suffering, to give his child, the USA, a better tomorrow.
Dont give up, keep the dream going, dont go thru the same mistakes that we have made.
You owe us this.
And dont believe that you have nothing more to learn from your old dad.
:)
I am lyric today. :D
-
Americans came to be a people not because we come from European values but because we were fleeing European values.
At least the Americans that originated from England declared that as reason for leaving England. Those people left England looking for religious freedom. They planted the seeds for the freedom we still enjoy today.
The following Document is the actual basis of our Great Constitution which was written 166 years later.
The Mayflower compact.
"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."
"There followed the signatures of 41 of the 102 passengers, 37 of whom were Separatists fleeing religious persecution in Europe. This compact established the first basis in the new world for written laws. Half of the colony failed to survive the first winter, but the remainder lived on and prospered."
And prosper they did indeed.
In fact America epitomizes all that is good and decent in humanity. America and the American way are man's best and brightest hope for a just future for any person on earth.
There is no better form of government.
This fact manifests itself in the pride you euros mock and do not comprehend.
demaw1 is correct in stating that we are currently involved in a war for our culture. Perhaps even a civil war, hopefully to be fought in the courts.
The liberals in America are literally hell bent in undoing 376 years of the most successful experiment in human liberty in all of mankind's history.
Without God there can be no America, Without America there is still God.
Liberal friends consider our history. If you cannot see a direct correlation with your actions in removing and prohibiting all mention of the Almighty from our public institutions in the past 50 years to our current social problems then you are truly blind.
The Ten Commandments which are the pardigm for our legal and judicial system are systematically being removed from schools and court houses.
We want to save whales, owls, termites and crabs but the mother's womb is unsafest place for a baby to be.
We can mention any god in schools. I've read that islam is being taught in California's public schools but the mention of Jesus' name is cause for suspension.
We have shameless groups of homosexuals who march throughout our streets celebrating their folly and expect us to not only accept their lifestyle choice but to embrace it as normal.
Yes indeed we are in a fight and IMHO a historically important one.
The separation of Church and State does not, did not ever mean the separation of God from our national identity. It meant that the government could not institute a National religion such as the Church of England as an example. I pray that God does not abandon us. If he were to we need only look at the fossil record around the southern shore of the dead sea in the Holy Land to find evidence of what could happen.
-
You make some very good points Naso, and some I had never taken into consideration before.
Thanks for posting them, food for thought indeed.
-
Beetle,
What I meant by "we have everything here we need" is a reference to the need to travel.
We have beautiful mountains with fantastic skiing. We have glorious sandy beaches on the ocean with warm weather year around.
We have the Grand Canyon, considered one the the seven wonders of the natural world. We have the northern lights, an amazing visual experience you can view so clearly in Alaska, and Alaska in itself is one of the most amazing places on earth for natural beauty.
You ever see a wheatfield that covers the horizon gently waving in a summer breeze? We have that too.
We have deserts with the plant and animal life only found in deserts. We have ghost towns that tell a story of early pioneer life, and we have preserved battlefields that tell of our early history for independance and our civil war. With that go the areas of historical significance to our nations history, such as Williamsburg VA, Concord and Lexington, Jamestown, Plymouth Rock, etc.
An amazing sight can be seen by heading toward the Dakotas and taking in Mount Rushmore. A visit to New York can show you the best and worst of a big city.
You can visit Chicago or Memphis to hear the greatest blues players in the world.
In Detroit, a person can watch the largest car makes in the world build cars. In Seatte, a person can watch the assembly of the B747 aircraft, the largest currently operated civilian aircraft.
We have thousands of museums, sports complexes, and national parks protecting and making available to the public some of the most beautiful works of nature (think Yellowstone etc).
In the USA you can hunt for small and large game, you can fish for great tasting walleye or large Marlin.
You can learn to fly aircraft or to race cars. You can attend races of motorcycles, cars, airplanes etc.
We have the Oshkosh airshow, the Reno airraces, hot air balloon festivals, and a couple space centers that you can visit.
We have the best health care system in the world, including Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic Hospital complexes.
I could go on, but let me say how sad I find it that you have lived here and yet all you choose to see were Walmart and McDonalds etc. You missed so much.
dago
-
I think part of beetle's point, if I may be so bold as to speak for him, is that there is SO MUCH of value elsewhere -- and most americans dont appreciate the fact. We have great museums and cultural resources, but we've only been around 200+ years. You can't see the Tower of London, with Roman walls nearby, in the new world. We have much to see; we don't have the Colisseum, the Louvre, Notre Dame, the Vatican art museum, Venice, and so on.
At the same time, we don't have Buchenwald.
-
As an American who spends lots of time overseas living with other cultures, I can say WE are big cultural snobs.
Americans tend to think that everyone is secretly a little american waiting to come out. In fact that is not true. Most people around the world are put off by this attiude.
You can see it at any Airport or Hotel overseas. Just listen for the American speaking English and raising his voice when the taxi driver does not understand him. What's the Joke? If a man speaks 3 languages he is trilingual. If he speaks 2 then he is bilingual. Only ONE, He's an American.
At the same time, Patriotism has traditionally been an American Cultural value. Just remember Europeans, MUCH of our culture is based on yours, with one big exception. Too Americans patriotism = Freedom and Justice for All NOT cultural superiority.
We already practice that! :)
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by storch
Atheist eh? actually that is very disingenuos. you believe in some form of a god. perhaps you are too lazy to invest deep thought on the subject or are intellectually dishonest. The choice is between two gods. That choice is God the creator or god the adversary. No choice is still a choice.
Actually, no. I don't believe that there is any god or supreme being that has created the universe by design. I've read the christian bible, studied other religious texts, and given it some serious thought and come to the conclusion that religion fills the psychological need many people have to have someone else be in control, like when they were children and their parents were ultimately responsible for their actions.
So, no. Your assertion that being atheist means I 'just haven't thought about it' is both insulting, poorly thought out, and evidence that you may cling to your beliefs like a safety blanket without any comprehension as to the possibility of something else.
Let this be the end of this conversation, there's no good reason to hijack this thread about national pride with a fruitless argument about religion. Neither of us is going to change the others mind, so it's only logical that we respect that we each have differing viewpoints and just live with it. If you REALLY want to keep talking about this, start a new thread so this one doesn't degenerate.
-
Originally posted by storch
Without God there can be no America, Without America there is still God.
It looks like US is theocratic country.
Am i correct ?
edit: hey crumpp nice post thanks :)
-
... alot of jealous people abound.
-
Originally posted by Naso
In a dark Europe, where a new set of moral values were evolving, many strong powers were fighting the hard way to keep the status quo, the people enbracing theese newborn values was pushing, even fighting to change society, many of this try ended in bloodbaths.
well true problems in europe were Church
They had power for looong time and it were more and more clear, that they are loosing it. Their morale went down, corruption were pretty high and most of them abused word "God" in eyes of other.
I can imagine, that average people were interesting in living somewhere else.
But some time has pass away and its kinda funny that religion in europe doesnt have as big influence on people, goverments as it have in US. Its kinda funny.
Every little children in europe know, that most people in human history did die in name of God. Even Stallin or Hitler are pure suckers at kills compare to various Churches in europe.
"freedom is gift given by god to all human beeing" or something like that GWB said, before he entered Iraq...... So whats the score ?
Ahhhh... 25000 death people in iraq in name of "freedom by God" ... damm im still wondering that they do not eat that
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by storch
Americans came to be a people not because we come from European values but because we were fleeing European values.
At least the Americans that originated from England declared that as reason for leaving England. Those people left England looking for
Would you knock it off Storch? I am still trying to not like you ;)
-
if I may be so bold as to speak for him, is that there is SO MUCH of value elsewhere -- and most americans dont appreciate the fact. oh bull****
"freedom is gift given by god to all human beeing" or something like that GWB said, before he entered Iraq...... So whats the score ? what?
-
Crump,
I have also lived overseas, I have been to many countries in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and I have been to Africa.
I just think that America has enough to offer that a peson could spend a lifetime of their vacations just seeing this nation. My posts in this thread have been in response to first, a condescending remark that most Americans haven't been to another country, and second, that there isn't much to see here other than urban sprawl.
Both ridiculous post that needed a response. Fact is, most people in this world will never travel more than 25 miles from where they grew up, let alone to differant countries. While some Europeans may jump among the litte countries of Europe and consider themselves "worldly", they aren't going any farther than when an American goes on vacation in his own country.
I would wager than the majority of Europeans dont travel more than a few hundred miles away in thier lives.
When an American travels to another country, he/she has taken a much longer trip. And again, if I had to wager, I would bet more Americans on vacation see distant lands than the average European. My experience sure indicates that. When in Bejing, I saw a lot of Americans touring, and just a few Europeans. Same of Malaysia, same of Rome, etc etc etc.
And poor Beetle with his blinders missed so much of our country while he shopped at Walmart and ate his fast food. Course, he probably became familiar with our bars and liquor stores.
No, Americans are not anymore snobby than Europeans, and probably less so. Reading this whole thread reflects that statement.
dago
-
Dago,
I agree with 90 percent of your post except for :
No, Americans are not anymore snobby than Europeans, and probably less so. Reading this whole thread reflects that statement.
I have family that still lives in Europe. It's my opinion that the average European is more "culturally aware" than American's simply because they do live within easy travel of other countries. Granted many of these "cultures" are very similar but they do all in fact have thier differences. French do not think that the British are French waiting to come out. We tend to think everyone should adopt our way of doing things.
Let me cite an example:
One time in the Philipines the group I was with hiked 75 km's through the Jungle on Luzon. When we got to our destination we stayed with a Philipino family. It was the only dwelling for miles and a 5 day hike to the nearest market. It was a stick hut with a thatched roof and a mud floor. The man's entire family lived their with 9 children in two rooms. The only metal objects they owned were a matchete, a small Short-wave reciever, and a plow blade for their water buffalo.
Immediately upon our arrival the man sent his sons into the jungle to fetch some dinner and his wife to cooking. He broke out 3 cans of meat, 1 of potted meat, 1 of sardines, and 1 of mackeral. With vegetables collected from the jungle, rice, and meat, his wife cooked us a meal. I wonder how many Americans would have turned their noses up at that meal? If you think about the fact each one of those can's represented a weeks salary and a 10 day round trip, It was feast.
Or how about later on during that trip I was invited to another Philipino's house. When I arrived his grandfather announced a celebration. See he fought as a Guerilla against the Japanese and wanted to honor Americans. A fire was built and dog was killed, dressed, and barbequed on the coals. We drank beer and balut, rice, and dogmeat.
http://cooking.houseonahill.net/index.php/food/recipe/balut/
You see the man sent his son to the market to get the very best for his guest. The Dog is not a "pet" dog but is raised on a farm specifically for eating. It is delicacy to them and he was laying out the red carpet. Most Americans would have jumped up and ran out of the room if you served them duck embryo's and dogmeat. AND of course Immediately attacked the man who was trying to honor them, letting him know just how screwed up he was for eating those things.
Here is a good one. How many times have you heard an American look at an Asian toliet and go "MY GOD! They squat over a hole in the ground!".
Well an Asian looks at European tiolet and thinks, "How dirty can you get! They actually TOUCH the place they crap in!"
Just because it is different does not mean it is bad.
WE tend to view cultural differences as "bad". Now some of them really are IMO. I am not a fan of the Middle Eastern practice of homosexuality before marriage. Especially when it is practiced with underage boys nor of the condemnation of Alcohol but an acceptance of Hash?
Crumpp
-
Ah Crump, you bring back fond memories.
I have ate Dog, ate 100yr old duck eggs, and squatted over the hole. (used in Middle East too). In Taiwan was fed a seafood meal, with some duck and goose thrown in, that had most things I have heard about or seen. Offered beetle nut at the end (no thanks).
I agree that so many people of so many cultures exhibit incredible hospitality, but a lot of Americans would and do appreciate these things. True, not all would, but plenty. Same I am sure for the Euro types.
Had curry chicken once prepared by a young Phillipino that was fantastic. Have eaten in places too dirty to think about, but had some great food. (some bad food too of course.)
Either way, not all Americans are snobs or slobs, and not all Euros are ettiquete and propriety personified.
We just live in the greatest country and they hate us for saying so!! :D
dago
-
We just live in the greatest country and they hate us for saying so!!
100 percent agreement on that!
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, no. I don't believe that there is any god or supreme being that has created the universe by design. I've read the christian bible, studied other religious texts, and given it some serious thought and come to the conclusion that religion fills the psychological need many people have to have someone else be in control, like when they were children and their parents were ultimately responsible for their actions.
So, no. Your assertion that being atheist means I 'just haven't thought about it' is both insulting, poorly thought out, and evidence that you may cling to your beliefs like a safety blanket without any comprehension as to the possibility of something else.
Let this be the end of this conversation, there's no good reason to hijack this thread about national pride with a fruitless argument about religion. Neither of us is going to change the others mind, so it's only logical that we respect that we each have differing viewpoints and just live with it. If you REALLY want to keep talking about this, start a new thread so this one doesn't degenerate.
Safety blanket? Oh I get it!!! Like you cling to your non belief belief system with no concern regarding accountability.
-
Originally posted by storch
Atheist eh? actually that is very disingenuos. you believe in some form of a god. perhaps you are too lazy to invest deep thought on the subject or are intellectually dishonest. The choice is between two gods. That choice is God the creator or god the adversary. No choice is still a choice.
I don't agree with that. That's like saying that "bald" is a hair colour.
Dago! I thank you for that list of US attributes. You're wrong about me - I have been to most US states (41 out of the 50) on various holidays/vacations as well as working in New York, Chicago and San Francisco. I've been to Calico ghost town in CA. I've hiked in Yosemite. I've been to the Redwood national park and stayed at Arcata,CA and spent two days hiking the trails in the Redwoods. I have been to Tombstone, AZ and seen a re-enactment of the events of 26th October, 1881. I have been to Grand Canyon. I don't need reminding of the wheat fields - I saw little else when driving through western Nebraska (west of North Platte) some years ago. I have been to Fort Sumter, SC where the civil war started at 4:30am on that fateful morning when a shell exploded overhead and signalled the beginning of hostilities. I have been to Stone Mountain,GA and seen the Confederate Memorial carving - Davis, Lee & Jackson. Later that day, I visited a museum in which there was a huge model depicting various Civil War battles. I also remember seeing a plaque about the Allman bros band from Macon, GA. I have yet to see Mt. Rushmore, but I have spent a lot of time in NYC - including visiting the WTC and the Empire State buildings. I spent a few days in Wyoming, hiking in the Grand Tetons, and visited Yellowstone Park. I had to cut that trip short because of bad weather, and because many trails do not open before Memorial Day. I've lived in the Chicago area, where it was perishing cold much of the time. The pizzas were good though. I swam in the Gulf off Galveston,TX - warmest water I ever swam in.
Large aircraft production is not the sole preserve of Boeing, by the way. Here, we have British Aerospace who worked with Airbus Industrie to produce large planes like the Airbus 340 - not quite as big as the 747-400, but the A340 has flown half way round the world non-stop (Toulouse to Perth), a distance of 15,000km in about 16½ hours. The Boeing 747-400 cannot do this without refuelling. Oh, and a new aircraft is in the works which is even bigger than the 747-400, and that's the Airbus 380. You might want to edit your post when that enters service in 2006.
We have many museums too, only ours depict historical events which happened more than 250 years ago. I'm sure the USA is not the only country where one can hunt for large or small game. In fact our friend Mr. Toad sometimes comes over to England - just to shoot game down in the west country. We also have some of the best trout fishing in the world. I know of Americans who come over to fish trout from the rivers Itchen and Test in Hampshire. I must admit I was surprised when I found that out.
You can learn to fly planes and race cars here and in most other countries. I have flown in the airspace of seven different countries, including five US states. I have both CAA and FAA licences. I have been to the EAA Convention at Oshkosh in 1991 - very impressive, but I was surprised it ran for only a week, which would not have been long enough to see everything. Here, we also have airshows in case you didn't know. One of the best I ever saw was the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Britain at Boscombe Down in 1990 - best airshow I ever saw. There are others - at Cosford and Fairford for example.
American healthcare is indeed of a very high standard, and my life was saved in an American hospital in 1980. However, there is something wrong when an AH subscriber has to cancel his account because he's struggling to pay medical bills. That can't be right. And my mother-in-law who lived in Chicago had to forego carpal tunnel surgery because it was not covered by Medicare/Medicaid and she could not afford the $20,000 to pay for it herself. That can't be right either.
In New York, I went to numerous theatre productions. I have met and had lunch with Debra Monk (wife of Sippowitz in NYPD Blue, and also had small role in Bridges of Madison County). It was she who told me that much of NYPD Blue is actually filmed in Los Angeles - bet you didn't know that. One time I found myself sitting next to the newscaster Stone Phillips - at Sarah Beth's Kitchen in NYC. (He asked to be moved - not because he was sitting next to me, but because his seat was where two sets joined and he wasn't comfortable!) I've watched tennis at the US Open in Flushing Meadow (Lindsay Davenport - can't remember her opponent) and baseball next door at Shea Stadium. Saw a cracking game on 24th August, 1995 - the day W95 was released: Mets were down 3-2 but came back to win 4-3 at the bottom of the ninth. I have watched baseball at several other stadia - Oakland Coliseum, PacBell Park, Coors Field, Wrigley Field and Fenway Park. After the Fenway Park game, I had dinner at the Union Oyster House in Boston - oldest restaurant in the USA.
I have stood at the Continental Divide at Milner Pass, CO, and as a result understand the concept of Pacific Ocean drainage and Atlantic Ocean drainage. You missed so much.
Like what?
-
Well Beetle, if you saw so many great things, why do you dwell on the negative?
Why didnt you mention and accept that when instead you choose to speak of Walmart etc?
Why don't you show understanding instead of thinking less of those who are still discovering America instead of going elsewhere???
Because you hate the US and it's citizens I guess.
Regarding our medical system, as with any health care system, it is not perfect. But, I certainly prefer it to the national system in England. There, everyone gets access to a bad system. Sharon Osbourne spoke of Ozzys hospitilization on her show and talked about the run down condition of the hospitals and the second rate health care system. She did speak well of a nationalized system that offered health care to all, but poorly of the resulting available health care.
In the USA, nobody can be denied emergency life saving treatment by law.
But, so far they haven't forced taxpayers to give free treatment to all the unemployed and underemployed. We subsidize them enough all ready with free or wildly reduced housing, food, education and heatlcare.
Maybe not giving away everything puts a little onus on them and their families to work, save and provide for themselves?
BTW, you must be one ungrateful SOB to have lived here, experienced so many great things and done so much, then consistantly use this forum to denigrate the USA.
dago
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I am not a fan of the Middle Eastern practice of homosexuality before marriage. Especially when it is practiced with underage boys nor of the condemnation of Alcohol but an acceptance of Hash?
Crumpp
Well ... i dont know if you will belive me or not. But people who live in ME and want to have sex before marriedge, simply have it. Some of them do not have it classic way so they pick another. Fact, that huge majority consider it to be bad, wrong is another story. I found a lot of oportunities in almost every city.
Hash does have long history over there.. people tolerate it w/o problem. Im not sure if it have worster impact that alcohol on population overhere.
But its also simple to buy there alcohol as well. Everybody who wants to look "in", modern will have something at home.
one more question. How many young boys you meet, were homosesuxals, because they could not have girl?
-
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed so much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like what?
==============================================
The fact we DON"T miss YOU!
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You missed so much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like what?
==============================================
The fact we DON"T miss YOU!
Crumpp
And America shouts AMEN!!
-
Originally posted by X2Lee
Would you knock it off Storch? I am still trying to not like you ;)
Move to France you ignint hillybilly I already consider you one any way.
-
Originally posted by lada
well true problems in europe were Church
They had power for looong time and it were more and more clear, that they are loosing it. Their morale went down, corruption were pretty high and most of them abused word "God" in eyes of other.
I can imagine, that average people were interesting in living somewhere else.
Don't forget that in europe, many had to use the "church" as a way out from social or economic traps, or as a path to power. Mendel would have been a scientist in america, but became a monk to make a living. Cardinal Richelieu was a machiavellian narcissist, who took "holy orders" in name only. In this setting, of course much evil was done under the cover of religion, by people who were "christian" only in clothing. Fair assessment requires judgement based on the true expression of Christian morality, not judgement based on perverted expressions of the beleif system. I wouldnt say Hitler represented the true nature of German culture; why to anti-religionists use the same logic to condemn Christianity??? And, why do they (justly) defend Islam by saying that those espousing atrocity are a fringe, not a reflection of the faith itself?
Originally posted by lada
But some time has pass away and its kinda funny that religion in europe doesnt have as big influence on people, goverments as it have in US. Its kinda funny.
You're fooliing yourself to say that religion doesnt have an influence in Europe; 1500 years of Christian worldview has shaped the nature of european "right and wrong" deeply. And, the underappreciated heritage of Christianity is the scientific worldview: prior to christianity, the world was viewed as unpredictable and chaotic, controlled by the whims of animistic or polytheistic minor deities whose interactions were more soap opera than theology. Christianity gave europe the idea that there were priciples behind reality that could be understood, devloped, and applied.
It is no accident of history that europe outpaced the rest of the world scientifically, commercially, and socially. IDEAS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
Originally posted by lada Every little children in europe know, that most people in human history did die in name of God. Even Stallin or Hitler are pure suckers at kills compare to various Churches in europe.[/B]
Then children in europe are being misled by modern propaganda. Even if you ignore the religious "lip service" and economic/political maneuvering that used religious verbiage to mask power plays, teh numbers dont even compare. All the horrors of the crusades together numbered their dead in the tens to hundreds of thousands.
Meanwhile, the really efficent mass killings were done by Europeans who had been "enlightened" away from absolute morality into the quagmire of relativism. Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin all were essentially atheists, who believed that their country's needs (and their own thirst for power) outweighed any sense of lasting Truth. They acted on the principle that the 'good" of the people they cared about jsutified any action, adn that might made right. Hitler explicitly outlined his worldview, and it clearly showed influences of Neizchean "god is dead", social darwinist "only the sttrong cultures survive", and so on. Ideas have consequences.
THE ONLY WAY THESE HORRORS CAN BE CRITICIZED IS BY APPEALING TO A HIGHER MORALITY, THAT TRANSCENDS TIME,PLACE, AND SITUATION. Without an absolute standard, the most you can say is "that was ok for them, in that time and situation, but wouldn't be considered right today."
Originally posted by lada "freedom is gift given by god to all human beeing" or something like that GWB said, before he entered Iraq...... So whats the score ?
Ahhhh... 25000 death people in iraq in name of "freedom by God" ... damm im still wondering that they do not eat that
:rolleyes: [/B]
OK, you're kinda losing me here. I'm not sure what the right thing to do was in Iraq, which is why I don't get to live in the White House. If GWB decieved us to get revenge or some other ulterior goal, he screwed up and deserves the flack he gets. If he did his best to deal with a threat, and had the guts to make a risky call even at the cost of his place in history, then he deserves some credit for courage -- even if you think his choice misguided.
But don't use propaganda -- Iraqis died while the world watched and did nothing. Hundreds of thousands died in the Iran/Iraq war, adn at least tens of thousands more died in systematic terror and torture. He repeatedly used chemical weapons on his minority groups in the 80s, and europe did nothing. If you're going to blame the US for deaths in the last year, then acknowledge the lives saved as well -- and realize that the blood of those hundreds of thousands was shed because no one did anything about it.
-
For Beetle and those who choose to read our "discussions", what I have failed to understand in the past, and still do in the present, is Beetles motives.
He talks about living here, he talks in this thread about seeing so many of our beautiful sights, repeatadly traveling to the USA, yet he consistantly attacks our nation and our people.
I fail to understand why he does this, and he has yet to give any reason for it.
So, time to explain beetle bug, why are you so angry and full of contempt? Where have we hurt you or done you wrong?
dago
-
one more question. How many young boys from, which were homosexuals, because they can not have girl, did you meet?
Quite a few. They are quite rampant in ME military's. Matter of fact one firebase I was at we noticed a 14-15 host nation guys would sneak into the chow hall late at night. When we casually asked what was up they became evasive. Since nothing was coming up missing in the chow hall we concluded something was up. We suspected that some of our guards where behind some of the rocket attacks on the Firebase. Well, we got quite a shock when we got film of these guys "buggering" one another.
Later we found the guards who were launching rockets at us. They were afraid we would fire them if things calmed down. So to keep their jobs they shot a few 107mm rockets near the base every few days.
Another guy or around 19 years old brought his wife to our doctor. He said she was "defective" and could not have children and asked if we could help. The man had been trying for a year to get her pregnant. Well, when the Doc examined her, she was still a virgin.
In another ME country the host nation troops thought our cooks were the same as their "platoon boys". Since the platoon boys did the laundry, cooking, as well as entertained at night. Their commander was not pleased when we refused his offer of exchanging Platoon boys for the awhile.
Another ME country the Host nation threw a party. Since most of the host nation soldiers were single, they brought in "party boys". In the US we call them "transvestites". They danced, sang, and afterwards went off with soldiers for some private entertainment. The officer in this country told me "Women are for having children, boys are for fun."
I am not a fan of certain aspects of Arab culture. Of course we have gays too. Ours are just more vocal and practice the "gay" lifestyle on the open. Even in these ME countries these men where not "gay" to their culture. It was an acceptable substitute to homosexual sex since they were not married.
Just can't follow that line of thinking!
Not all ME countries now have these kind of standards. It seems the more moderate the country the less this kind of stuff goes on. The more "Theocratic" the Government the more you see this behavior since premarital heterosexual sex is frowned upon.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Simaril
You're fooliing yourself to say that religion doesnt have an influence in Europe; 1500 years of Christian worldview has shaped the nature of european "right and wrong" deeply.
You know whats most funny, that only western europe were Christians, rest were Orthodox or pohans.
Im not fooling myself. lets see Europian constitution. When godlovers call for integrating christian roots into it, it were deny and nobody gave a chit.
man at 15st. cen. did die in name of god about 400 000 only here in lill Czech.
Actualy it were kinds and Queens who made propgress in live of poeple, like mandatory education for children and so on.
You can name some examples, when church use power for goodness of normal people ?
And thing you didnt get about Iraq.
When somebody who is "Christian" going to Liberate country where 70% are muslims with words " Freedom is gift given to us by God" it particulary smell even for atheists.
Another liberalization in name of God rights... ohh well... i trough that we live in 21st. cen... and not 16st. cen.
Churches had their own part in history of Europe, but it seems to be over.
-
Originally posted by Dago
For Beetle and those who choose to read our "discussions", what I have failed to understand in the past, and still do in the present, is Beetles motives.
He talks about living here, he talks in this thread about seeing so many of our beautiful sights, repeatadly traveling to the USA, yet he consistantly attacks our nation and our people.
I fail to understand why he does this, and he has yet to give any reason for it.
So, time to explain beetle bug, why are you so angry and full of contempt? Where have we hurt you or done you wrong?
dago
He is a euro. a poor misguided product of that failed social experiment dating back to post WWII europe. There, but for the grace of God go we.
The same social experimentation that the liberals would inflict upon us. With the aid and guidance of their wise euro mentors of course.
That is the battle we are currently waging. We are fighting to preserve our rich and proven superior culture.
Note when scandinavia allowed homosexual marriage the result was that now 63% of all children are born out of wedlock. the institution of the family is virtually dead.
In sweden there is a Pastor serving a prison sentence for preaching out of the Bible! for preaching from Romans Chapter 1.
That is what they want for us. oh and also to tax us to pay for more social experimentation on a global scale.
Does anyone ever go crab fishing? when you go crab fishing you need to either get a lid for your container, or catch two crabs simultaneously. If you do as one crab tries to escape out of the container the other one will pull it down. The more crabs in the container the less likely any will escape. Humans are like that also.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
I am not a fan of certain aspects of Arab culture. Of course we have gays too. Ours are just more vocal and practice the "gay" lifestyle on the open. Even in these ME countries these men where not "gay" to their culture. It was an acceptable substitute to homosexual sex since they were not married.
Just can't follow that line of thinking!
Not all ME countries now have these kind of standards. It seems the more moderate the country the less this kind of stuff goes on. The more "Theocratic" the Government the more you see this behavior since premarital heterosexual sex is frowned upon.
Crumpp
:rofl
Well in out national guard, whitch is supposed to guard president, we have homo incidents quite often. May be 3x times a year we can read in news papers, that some soldier raped another soldier and when he went to have a speach about it with psycholog, psycholog raped him again and few more.
I expect it to be quite higher in "normal" unit. Its quite spread problem in army here and in jails.
i dont think its problem related to ME.
Where have you been in ME ?
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Quite a few. They are quite rampant in ME military's. Matter of fact one firebase I was at we noticed a 14-15 host nation guys would sneak into the chow hall late at night. When we casually asked what was up they became evasive. Since nothing was coming up missing in the chow hall we concluded something was up. We suspected that some of our guards where behind some of the rocket attacks on the Firebase. Well, we got quite a shock when we got film of these guys "buggering" one another.
Later we found the guards who were launching rockets at us. They were afraid we would fire them if things calmed down. So to keep their jobs they shot a few 107mm rockets near the base every few days.
Another guy or around 19 years old brought his wife to our doctor. He said she was "defective" and could not have children and asked if we could help. The man had been trying for a year to get her pregnant. Well, when the Doc examined her, she was still a virgin.
In another ME country the host nation troops thought our cooks were the same as their "platoon boys". Since the platoon boys did the laundry, cooking, as well as entertained at night. Their commander was not pleased when we refused his offer of exchanging Platoon boys for the awhile.
Another ME country the Host nation threw a party. Since most of the host nation soldiers were single, they brought in "party boys". In the US we call them "transvestites". They danced, sang, and afterwards went off with soldiers for some private entertainment. The officer in this country told me "Women are for having children, boys are for fun."
I am not a fan of certain aspects of Arab culture. Of course we have gays too. Ours are just more vocal and practice the "gay" lifestyle on the open. Even in these ME countries these men where not "gay" to their culture. It was an acceptable substitute to homosexual sex since they were not married.
Just can't follow that line of thinking!
Not all ME countries now have these kind of standards. It seems the more moderate the country the less this kind of stuff goes on. The more "Theocratic" the Government the more you see this behavior since premarital heterosexual sex is frowned upon.
Crumpp
Abdullah was buttpiping his wife and wondering why she isn't pregnant. Too funny but sadly true enough. It has been going on for centuries along with female circumcision and other phenominally backwards practices.
-
well may be doctor should check rather him that her :D
-
Originally posted by Dago
For Beetle and those who choose to read our "discussions", what I have failed to understand in the past, and still do in the present, is Beetles motives.
He talks about living here, he talks in this thread about seeing so many of our beautiful sights, repeatadly traveling to the USA, yet he consistantly attacks our nation and our people.
I fail to understand why he does this, and he has yet to give any reason for it.
So, time to explain beetle bug, why are you so angry and full of contempt? Where have we hurt you or done you wrong?
dago
Why do you care what Beetle thinks and why does criticism however slight by complete strangers cause such consternation?
-
Originally posted by Dago
For Beetle and those who choose to read our "discussions", what I have failed to understand in the past, and still do in the present, is Beetles motives.
He talks about living here, he talks in this thread about seeing so many of our beautiful sights, repeatadly traveling to the USA, yet he consistantly attacks our nation and our people.
I fail to understand why he does this, and he has yet to give any reason for it.
So, time to explain beetle bug, why are you so angry and full of contempt? Where have we hurt you or done you wrong?
dago
Well Dago, an interval of 27 mins passed between your last two posts in this thread, so it seems you're turning this over in your mind. The reason you don't understand is because you're wrong about my hating America and its citizens. Quite wrong.
Some time ago, it became fashionable on this BBS to belittle France and the French. Other countries have suffered the ignominy of being insulted on this board, and dismissed as "nations of pissants" etc. You yourself went into overdrive when insulting the French. I think it was you who posted an insulting photograph depicting a French soldier dropping his weapon and surrendering - I really can't recall, as there have been so many attacks on the French. England has also suffered, and one American, when addressing Boroda, used the collective noun of "you red bastards" to speak of the Russian people. Spain became the butt of insults shortly after the terrorist attacks on the Spanish train system, and the surprise election result that followed shortly afterwards.
When I read such country bashing threads as those, my reaction is to focus on the hypocrisy of it all. It's not as if America is perfect - it isn't, but even if it was, those country bashing insults are uncalled for. So... if America is going to bash the rest of the world, I'm here to tell you that I can bash with the best. In point of fact, any America bashing I have done has been limited to anecdotal tales - I'm surprised anyone would take them to heart. Regarding our medical system, as with any health care system, it is not perfect. But, I certainly prefer it to the national system in England. There, everyone gets access to a bad system. Sharon Osbourne spoke of Ozzys hospitilization on her show and talked about the run down condition of the hospitals and the second rate health care system. She did speak well of a nationalized system that offered health care to all, but poorly of the resulting available health care.
In addition to the NHS, we also have private hospitals. There is a health care system known as BUPA (British United Provident Association) and by paying a quarterly subscription to BUPA, one gains access to excellent hospitals and health care.
I agree entirely about the run down condition of Britain's NHS hospitals. Tony Blair's Labour government has shovelled money into the NHS without analysing how the money is spent. The result is that much of the money gets spent on ABC - administration, bureaucracy and consultaion. The government hires on three times as many managers and other admin staff as doctors and nurses, and these days there is so much paperwork that there aren't enough trained staff available to perform routine hospital maintenance tasks such as keeping the hospital clean and free from risk of spreading infection.
As for Sharon & Ozzy Osborne, I'm surprised they're mucking about with NHS hospitals given the sort of money they have. They could well afford to be in a private scheme.
And now - I'm having a beer!
PS... Who is this Crumpp guy???
-
Originally posted by storch
He is a euro. a poor misguided product of that failed social experiment dating back to post WWII europe.
Dago - see what I mean?
-
He talks about living here, he talks in this thread about seeing so many of our beautiful sights, repeatadly traveling to the USA, yet he consistantly attacks our nation and our people.
He does? He consistently does? Where?
There are so many wondrous things to see outside of our borders. Think of all the ancient, magnificent architecture that still stands all over Europe; places of monumental world historical significance. Remember, as far as civilized history goes, the U.S. in an infant. I love my country as much as anyone but I would relish the opportunity to "see the world".
-
Well in out national guard, whitch is supposed to guard president, we have homo incidents quite often. May be 3x times a year we can read in news papers, that some soldier raped another soldier and when he went to have a speach about it with psycholog, psycholog raped him again and few more.
Sounds like you have a discipline problem in your Military.
I expect it to be quite higher in "normal" unit. Its quite spread problem in army here and in jails.
Well, In the United States Military homosexuality is a quick ticket to the unemployment line or jail.
It is not tolerated. We like it that way.
I've been to Israel, Jordan, Syria, Eygpt, Iraq, Turkey, and Afghanistan.
Crumpp
-
Egypt...typin to fast:)
Crumpp
-
Why do you care what Beetle thinks and why does criticism however slight by complete strangers cause such consternation?
What, are you his BBS bodyguard?
-
Originally posted by lada
You know whats most funny, that only western europe were Christians, rest were Orthodox or pohans.
"Orthodox"-- whether Eastern, Greek, or Russian -- IS christian. ("of christ"). I'm not familiar with "pohan" -- help me out. Whom does this term refer to?
Originally posted by lada
Im not fooling myself. lets see Europian constitution. When godlovers call for integrating christian roots into it, it were deny and nobody gave a chit..[/B]
Does a constitutional vote make something true? If so, then was racial discrimination, whch was legal in the Reich, a honest and just policy?
Also, note I never said Europe was a christian region. I said the influence of christianity is unmistakable and pervasive. The very ability to say that something is true regardless of personal opinion is an appeal to a morally higher, permanent standard -- and that is a concept obviously esposed by faith.
Originally posted by lada
man at 15st. cen. did die in name of god about 400 000 only here in lill Czech...[/B]
Although I've read a lot of european history, I must admit to only shallow familiarity with the renaissance balkans. I recall this was an era of Ottoman influence -- are you claiming that these people died only because of religion? While both sides fought "in the name of" their god, it seems to me that the clashes were driver more by geography and political powergrabbing.
In a similar way, the 30yrs war had religious overtones, between nominally catholic and nominally protestant factions. In reality, the war was driven by the attempt made by the "Holy Roman Emperor" (and he ws neither holy, roman, nor emperor -- see what I mean) to assert political power., countered by the German princelings who wanted to continue with control. those princes switched faiths by political expedience, and expected their people to do the same. Magdesburg's 30k were slaughtered by mercenaries who could/would not be controlled, adn although religious overtones were present the war's historical cause was political rather than religious.
And about numbers -- Stalin accounted for at least tens of millions before the war, and the war itself -- triggered by Hitler -- killed over 100 million worldwide.
Originally posted by lada
Actualy it were kinds and Queens who made propgress in live of poeple, like mandatory education for children and so on.
You can name some examples, when church use power for goodness of normal people ?...[/B]
1) Mandatory education came about through reformers, some of whom were royal and some who were not. All were influenced, however, by Christian values of altruism, selflessness, and justice.
These values came from somewhere -- from the Celts? No, those vlaues weren't evident in any history of that people. Maybe from the Romans, except they were powerful slaveholders whose values only extended to their class, not to everyone. No, those values are an explicit part of Christianity.
2) Too numerous to mention all, but I'll try. Mother Teresa's a modern example of a giving tradition that spans all of Christianity.
A) Antislavery reformers in Britain and the US were devout Christians. (Oh, and to head off the comment -- Slaveholders had to ignore the teachings of christ; Paul's advice to slaves in roman times addresses a social reality, it never says slavery is good.)
B) Medical healthcare all over the third world, paid for and sponsored by christian organizations. Doctors and nurses, capable of enormous earnings, leave their comfortable homes and forgo wealth to GIVE care to those who otherwise would have none.
C) relief organizations all over the world, like world vision and compassion international, support underpriviledged peoples. they pay for community development, education for children, health care, and famine acute relief. America is uncomfortably religious for european tastes, but the average american religious donor gives more away to people he'll never meet than any other demographic in the world.
D) Christian medical groups go all over the world, donating teaching at medical colleges and delivering care to the impoverished on short term trips.
Originally posted by lada
And thing you didnt get about Iraq.
When somebody who is "Christian" going to Liberate country where 70% are muslims with words " Freedom is gift given to us by God" it particulary smell even for atheists.
Another liberalization in name of God rights... ohh well... i trough that we live in 21st. cen... and not 16st. cen.
Churches had their own part in history of Europe, but it seems to be over. [/B]
GWB spoke those words from his heart, not for the entire country. Leave the political rhetoric aside -- a few posts agao you were claiming opposition to the invasion because it resulted in 25k deaths. Are you now saying it was wrong because GWB said the word "God"? And I'm pretty sure he also said something like, God, however we may worship him....
and about your parting shot -- you've missed part of my point. The influence of Christianity is far from gone in europe, even if it only lives on in moral and scientific attitudes.
-
Originally posted by lada
It looks like US is theocratic country.
Am i correct ?
No, but see Naso's post. America was heavily colonized by those escaping religious persecution -- so by default we have a more religious group of ancestors than most europeans. (I read in Schama's [????] Story of Britain that where only 5% of Georgian population were dissenters from the established church, 40% or more (rough numbers) of the colonists were. That's a lot of religious convictions.)
So, we have a high percentage of religious people, and we have a representative system of government. Those religious views are reflected in many of our leaders. Since we're representative, we also have a lot of non-religious leaders too -- which often gets overlooked.
A theocracy rules by religious decree, with "God says..." whether the people like it or not -- think modern Iran.
BTW, having faith doesnt mean mindless, brainless, or insane, you know. I believe in the God of Christianity, even though I have a doctorate, I'm Board certified in 3 medical specialties, and I'm on teaching staff of an internship program, a medical specialty residency program, and 2 medical schools.;)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
MacArthur was a lunatic, and lost his command because of his utterings about China. At that time the US could have won a war against China by using nukes, but not now. The US invading China now is completely ridiculous.
The scary thing is, some of Eisenhower's military advisors seriously wanted to do exactly that a few years later.....
I'm REALLY glad level heads (like Ike's) shut the nuts up.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
Egypt...typin to fast:)
Crumpp
cool...
btw many of us can't type, thats why allmighty Skuzzy gave us Edit button :D
baaaaahhh... you lucky bastard, did you work there or you were there for vacation ?
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Amen Nuke
And all you haters... suck on it.
Thus speaketh the "libertarian" whose love of his own liberty is matched only by his disdain for that of others.
-
Originally posted by storch
Abdullah was buttpiping his wife and wondering why she isn't pregnant. Too funny but sadly true enough. It has been going on for centuries along with female circumcision and other phenominally backwards practices.
For the record, I agree that female circumsision is barbaric, but I'm curious whether you think that male circumcision is acceptable, and if so, why don't you see a contradiction?
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
For the record, I agree that female circumsision is barbaric, but I'm curious whether you think that male circumcision is acceptable, and if so, why don't you see a contradiction?
Well male circumcision is certainly beneficial to the man's sex partner. the consort of a circumcised male suffers greatly reduced incidence of uterine and cervical cancer. I believe this may be due to a lesser incidence of the human papiloma virus being present but I could be mistaken.
male circumcision is nowhere near as nasty as the female variant. IIRC the females that are circumcised have had their clitoris' complete removed so they derive no pleasure during sexual relations.
unless of course they enjoy getting buttpiped by abdullah.
-
Actually, the medical 'benefits' of male circumcision have been roundly disproved over the past decade. This is why I chose not to have both of my children mutilated in this manner when they were born.
-
Originally posted by storch
Well male circumcision is certainly beneficial to the man's sex partner.
But how does it affect wanking?
-
Originally posted by Simaril
"Orthodox"-- whether Eastern, Greek, or Russian -- IS christian.
Do you even know whats diferent between orthodox and rest ?
("of christ"). I'm not familiar with "pohan" -- help me out. Whom does this term refer to?
Pohans is word created for Slovans who were not christians. So in eyes of Christians they had no religion and they had no right for anything.
Although I've read a lot of european history, I must admit to only shallow familiarity with the renaissance balkans. I recall this was an era of Ottoman influence -- are you claiming that these people died only because of religion? While both sides fought "in the name of" their god, it seems to me that the clashes were driver more by geography and political powergrabbing.
no i spoke about this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussite_Wars
ps.: why does people still split czech with checnia? :)
And about numbers -- Stalin accounted for at least tens of millions before the war, and the war itself -- triggered by Hitler -- killed over 100 million worldwide.
Sure only in europe more that 100 million people die in past 2000 years in name of jessus.
1) Mandatory education came about through reformers, some of whom were royal and some who were not. All were influenced, however, by Christian values of altruism, selflessness, and justice.
Mandoatory education came form lady, who was first queen who didnt care about religion that much. Marie Terezie
These values came from somewhere -- from the Celts? No, those vlaues weren't evident in any history of that people. Maybe from the Romans, except they were powerful slaveholders whose values only extended to their class, not to everyone. No, those values are an explicit part of Christianity.
You learn about those values from Christian books? ok...
You can be pretty sure, that sutch values were here before and will be here after.
Whats even most funny is fact, that you can find sutch values all around world.
A) Antislavery reformers in Britain and the US were devout Christians. (Oh, and to head off the comment -- Slaveholders had to ignore the teachings of christ; Paul's advice to slaves in roman times addresses a social reality, it never says slavery is good.)
well here it were not act of church and it happen few hundrets year earlier
B) Medical healthcare all over the third world, paid for and sponsored by christian organizations. Doctors and nurses, capable of enormous earnings, leave their comfortable homes and forgo wealth to GIVE care to those who otherwise would have none.
They are also sponsored by many others.... red cross, various other foundations based on other religions.
Question is what do they spread over there. Untill they keep doing their "job', its ok. once they will use it as cover for spreading "word of God",, give them italian boots
C) relief organizations all over the world, like world vision and compassion international, support underpriviledged peoples. they pay for community development, education for children, health care, and famine acute relief. America is uncomfortably religious for european tastes, but the average american religious donor gives more away to people he'll never meet than any other demographic in the world.
Can you supply some numbers for comparation regarding donations ?
Most of europeans is having fun to watch, that Church is pure bussines in US, thats probably what you are speaking about.
D) Christian medical groups go all over the world, donating teaching at medical colleges and delivering care to the impoverished on short term trips.
Red cross do the same doesnt ?
i didnt dig about it but i think, that we will find sutch things in other countries in other religions as well.
GWB spoke those words from his heart, not for the entire country. Leave the political rhetoric aside --
When top commander of military speak about God and right from god, im sorry but somehow i fear sutch fanatics
a few posts agao you were claiming opposition to the invasion because it resulted in 25k deaths. Are you now saying it was wrong because GWB said the word "God"? And I'm pretty sure he also said something like, God, however we may worship him....
i didnt get your point .... What i said were quote from his mouth. So when he said right given by god to us, he said what he said... i do not see excatly, what are you trying to say
and about your parting shot -- you've missed part of my point. The influence of Christianity is far from gone in europe, even if it only lives on in moral and scientific attitudes.
Rest of moral we have is not realy related to christians. Christianity is just empty term over here and when you say it on the street, majority of people will knock on their heads.
Even religious people here stay away from christianity. My grandmother often say.. " human has been created by god and then human created church" (and BS begun)
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, the medical 'benefits' of male circumcision have been roundly disproved over the past decade. This is why I chose not to have both of my children mutilated in this manner when they were born.
Ya I left my son properly sheathed as well.
-
Originally posted by beet1e
But how does it affect wanking?
I don't know what "wanking" is I'm American. remember? ask the question in the correct, superior and dominant english please.
-
Originally posted by storch
I don't know what "wanking" is I'm American. remember? ask the question in the correct, superior and dominant english please.
Bollocks. You know full well what it means. But that's OK - I'll let one of the other bananas answer. After all, there's enough of 'em out there! :lol - Dago?
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Bollocks. You know full well what it means. But that's OK - I'll let one of the other bananas answer. After all, there's enough of 'em out there! :lol - Dago?
There you go again!! Bollocks???? Is that like BS in anglund?
I really wish you people would learn to speak the language. It must be all that sibling mating that goes on over there. Even though you seem to have a modicum of a clue, afterall you did marry an American!
-
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's
good enough for me!"
"Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas
-
Work, always work. :(
Crumpp
-
you working today crumpp?
drag to work on the weekend:(
-
Originally posted by lada
Do you even know whats diferent between orthodox and rest ?
.......
Red cross do the same doesnt ?
1) Yes, I do know the differences -- I included them as Christian because despite doctrinal and historical divergence they share the central christian beliefs in Jesus and his teaching
But, lada, a thought --- how much do you think your perception of Christianity may have been shaped by the near century of repression and compromise forced on the orthodox churches by the USSR? (You said you were from Chechnia, yes?) The "Church" you know and don't respect, and what you've learned about it, may not represent the mainstream of real christianity either.
2) Where do you think the "Cross" in the RED CROSS came from? ;)
_____________________________ _________________
Hey, i don't want to derail this post any more than we already have -- it started with theme on USA. Religion hot topic, plays larger role in US than in most 1st, 2nd world countries so it came up. You and I have had differnet backgounds, that might be fun to explore -- not just in life expreriences but in what we've learned in school.
_____________________________ _______________________
I guess the point I'd like to leave with is related but simple -- Europeans don't need to be quite so afraid that theocracy or fascism will happen here. The bedrock, deep values woven into American society include a powerful, almost unconscious sense of fairness. When a leader crosses the line, he doesnt last, and his party pays the price.
George Bush is the most polarizing figure in the history of American politics, meaning that more people have very powerful positive or negative opinions and fewer are neutral about him. In american politics this makes it harder to win, because those motivated against you work hard to get rid of you -- instead of just complaining. He's polarizing because some really like the fact he made strong decisions instead of waffling back and forth (like some other leaders); and some fear the very thing you all seem to, that he's going to compromise our freedom in the name of preserving it. In short, he simply cannot move any farther in the direction you seem to fear without destroying his political future and that of his party.
In short, we have a two party representative government in homeostatic balance. Any nudge too far in one dorection results in response from teh other side to restore the balance.
The reason we've had one of the very longest surviving governmental systems in modern history is simply that it works pretty well.
-
No,
Not working today. Just relaxing and contemplating exercising my second amendment rights. Wife wants to try out her new Glock. How about you?
Crumpp
-
Just dont do the glock thing on each other...;)
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
"If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's
good enough for me!"
"Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas
Please tell me that's not an actual quote! Sounds like something Yogi Berra would say.
:rofl
-
Originally posted by Simaril
Just dont do the glock thing on each other...;)
Most couples just argue. Some REALLY fight! ;)
-
Abdullah was butt piping his wife and wondering why she isn't pregnant. Too funny but sadly true enough. It has been going on for centuries along with female circumcision and other phenomenally backwards practices.
Yeah we got a chuckle out of it. Then we had to go in and explain to the guy the problem AND try not to embarrass or alienate him. Take care Storch!
Crumpp
-
The glock jokes....
:rofl
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
No,
Not working today. Just relaxing and contemplating exercising my second amendment rights. Wife wants to try out her new Glock. How about you?
Crumpp
enjoying the nice weather here today...wish I lived closer to you and your wife, I'd love to tag along and try the new Glock too! It would be a blast :)
have fun man!
-
Originally posted by xrtoronto
enjoying the nice weather here today...wish I lived closer to you and your wife, I'd love to tag along and try the new Glock too! It would be a blast :)
have fun man!
maybe you could borrow some of her clothes too :)
-
Yeah,
We could talk about the upcoming US plans to invade NORWAY!
:D
Take Care All!
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I'll be waiting for you Crumpp ;)
With................ A HERRING!!
-
Originally posted by cpxxx
But maybe someone could explain why you need to say it so much. In most countries it's implied more than said. I'm genuinely curious. It's an almost uniquely American thing.
Not really. If you're trying to allude to "national insecurity" look up some of the Canadian "Hey! We fought in WWII too but you don't show us any appreciation!" threads. ;)
Post a daily "pro-Irish" thread and see if it makes Americans as pissy as "pro-U.S.A." threads seem to make you. Hell .... 80% of the yanks posting on this board are probably of Irish decent to some degree.
Hmmm ... maybe that explains it there. Most "Proud of my nation" threads don't bother us Yanks unless it's a nation that deserves a butt-kicking for being tards.
Don't be a tard and we'll love yas plenty. :aok :D
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Your door is not open to all.
Sure it is! Just some prefer breaking a window to get in. ;)
-
80% of the yanks posting on this board are probably of Irish decent to some degree.
My fathers family heritage was primarily English, my Mothers family Irish, at least as I understand it.
But, we are 100% American.
dago
-
See? Dago agrees. :D
-
American is just a pretty word for saying we are mutts. I'm part Irish among other things(by the way Ireland is a pretty place). Still I'm American and proud of it. And for all of you who make a day of bashing America take a valume(spelling) and call it a day. And if we really wanted to we can make years out of telling you how crappy your country is to.
-
To quote a brit pretending to be a frenchman pretending to talk to a brit pretending to be King Arthur followed by a man with 2 coconuts pretending to be a horse:
"Now go away before I taunt you a second time!"
-
reply to naso.
I agree Europes perception of good and evil is based on secular moral values that change over time and from people to people.This is what has allowed Europe to cause so much blood letting and terror thru the centurys. Who gives you your moral values where do they come from.If moral values change who changes them. All this spawns from secular humanism.Therefore Europe and others can not judge others [ except America of course].You may think murder is wrong for you but by what authority do you say murder is wrong for another.The nations authority? Look at some of the nations Europe has created.This is impossible you say...ok,there are many examples Ill use 1.WW1 Jews fought and died for germany,many recieved medals including many iron crosses Germanys highest award.Few years later theses same people were being exterminated.Europes ever changing values again.That is why our founding fathers based this countries values on Judao/christian values, we may change but the values dont .
How can you not see,the people who came to Amercia were fleeing Europeian values, its in almost every book written at that time.
I will comment on your no comment....if America rejects her roots and embraces Europes secular values,it will be time to become very afriad of Amercia.
Trap? Saved your bellybutton card? Fly higher?
Was it a[ trap] when we took poisonious gas and trench warfare on to save Europe when we didnt have to?
Was it just some card game when we hit the beaches at normandy,did not give up at the battle of the bulge,continued daylight bombing raids no matter the losses and so much more and though it was more important than ww1 we didnt really have to.
How much higher can a nation fly than to risk atomic war to save berlin, or to keep russia et al at bay while europe heals,forgive all the loans to europe just because we were better off at that time?
yet in our time of need just because you were stealing billons of dollars from iraq and blame us for the hungry and dieing kids you wouldnt help us.
You are right Europes values change all the time and now once again they stink.
respectfully demaw
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes America's values are rock steady! With slave labour, apartheid, genocide, political persecution ... rock steady ... doesn't change at all.
*yawn*
-
Scottish, Thank you!
In fact the clan still has a castle in Scotland.
Crumpp
-
LOL...You said it Storch.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Dago
My fathers family heritage was primarily English, my Mothers family Irish, at least as I understand it.
But, we are 100% American.
dago
My Dads family = Irish and German
My Moms side = Italian and Bulgarian
-
Yes America's values are rock steady! With slave labour, apartheid, genocide, political persecution ... rock steady ... doesn't change at all.
How many American's do you know? Not someone you met but someone you close friends with? For values to be America's values it has to be the people's values. As far as I know, I know no one with those values. I so glad the rest of the world knows our country values better than us.:rolleyes:
-
Categoric statements like "no one" generally do disservice to everyone. There are many who despise what's been done in the past, and there are many who died in america to fight that injustice when it happened -- men who were killed in Mississippi in the 60s for opposing our racist injustices. We opposed them in our own land, and those evils were stopped. We are not perfect, but we keep trying to do what's right. To an american, that is part of the definition of success -- never give up, never surrender.
There are those who deny the holocaust, and there are skin heads and supremacists in europe -- even in progressive countries like, was it the Netherlands? that had a supremacist nominated for high office and then assassinated?
Does that mean that "no one" in europe has learned the lessons of the 20th century?
-
Ok, sorry misread your post. Yes, it is true America likes to hide its faults way back down in the history books. As do others.(we have did more of it though) But there really isn't no reason to bring up the mistakes. I mean there is probably somethings you have done that you put way down inside you and hope no one ever finds out.
-
Originally posted by Jayclark
there is probably somethings you have done that you put way down inside you and hope no one ever finds out.
boy...you got that one right:aok
-
Your so profound....
:rolleyes:
Crumpp
-
Don't think you got the sarcasm, so let me spell it out.
Your an IDIOT .
Crumpp
-
scholz
pay attention
I SAID WE MAY CHANGE BUT THE VALUES DONT THEREFORE WHEN WE ARE WRONG WE DO EVENTUALLY GET BACK TO BASICS.
Thanks so much for paying attention. lol
Slaves you are right except for this.the whole world participated in the slave trade including the blacks and your country.I SAID WE DID THINGS WRONG AND PAID A DEAR PRICE FOR IT. We had a civil war over slavery lost 264000 dead 700000plus wounded.show me anytime europe did something like this to right a wrong.O by the way i understand that france and germany have said no to helping in the sudan.GENOCIDE.i dont agree with the word in our case but agree it could be used.America was growing at the time,And the of the age of the indian was over, i am 1/4 true cherokee and the rest mutt.Do i have to go into europe history to show u the peoples u displaced to become who u are? It was the french and herons that wiped out the mohawks.It was the french that introduced scalping to the indians to prove payment for all the british they killed.Most of the American Indians hated each other, Some tribes were wiped out and duh guess what indians had slaves to.That is a human condition ,every race in the world has at one time been slaves to another. POLITICAL PERSECUTION, you with a straight face can bring that up knowing the centuries of extreme persecution europe was the cause of...compared to our mild so called persecution...you know, go jump in a lake ,and take good book maybe u will learn something.Oh and please dont pick one that america has killed with pollution dont want to hear it
-
Why don't you ask him about his REAL opinion of America?
To him We are CRIMINALS.
Go ahead and let em know GScholz.
Crumpp
-
ALSO CAN U PLEASE EXPLAIN THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS THAT HAS STARTED IN EUROPE AGAIN CAN U.
-
I can feel the love
-
LOL
So, how did your day go xrtoronto? :)
Crumpp
-
There is every reason to remember the mistakes and injustices of the past. Otherwise we might do them all over again in the future.
That is true. But we delt with the past. All the bad things in your past do you speak of them all the time? I bet you don't. But yet do you make that same mistake again? Even though you don't constantly talk about you past you still know not to make the same mistake again. As for slavey, thats one thing we don't hide or forget. I live in Lexington,VA. Slavery is touchy where I live since we was split during that time. We Have VMI(Virginia Millitary Insitute) There is so much damage to that building that is being perserved so we don't forget. You can go see canon balls in the side of the building. They lefted four buildings abandon do to structure intgerty(spelling). Battle of Lexington and Concord didn't happen for nothing. We corrected our wrongs. Why is it so hard for the rest of the world to understand? There are still some mistakes to correct but it takes time.
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
LOL
So, how did your day go xrtoronto? :)
Crumpp
quiet day...bars start to get busy around midnight here, so .... I think I will go have a couple. (and some beer too):cool:
wish me luck!
-
OK I WILL DO A STUPID THING THAT U HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO GET ON ME FOR.I WILL ANSWER FOR U.
ME, SAME QUESTION AS BEFORE
YOU , O THAT IS JUST SOME CRAZYS MAYBE ONLY 15 NO MORE THAN 20 PERCENT.
ME, HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK IT STARTED LAST TIME ,AND EVEN IF IT ONLY 10 PERCENT HOW CAN THAT BE SO SOON AFTER THE LAST TIME.Oh i know since unlike amerika europe always admits to the wrongs of the past u will surely nip it in the bud.........BUT SO FAR EUROPE HASNT,MIGHT UPSET YOUALLS A RAB FRIENDS.
SLEEP TIGHT,YOURE WHITE THE BED BUGS WONT BITE.
disclamier,at no time are my words to be taken that i mean all europeans all the time,there are some wonderfull people and countries in europe past present and future, but in total europe has been a pain and quite ungratefull.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Demaw1, you start off pretty well with acknowledging that the US have done wrongs, but then sadly to turn to the classic excuse of saying someone else did something worse. The fact still remains that England abolished slavery before you did and they didn't even have to fight a civil war over it. Just a hundred years ago you were still slaughtering Indians (genocide). Less than forty years ago you still had apartheid in some states, and persecuted communists and socialists. Find one European country that did worse in the last 100 years or so, except Germany and the Soviet block.
Well I hate to mention it but all you have to do is look at Serbia., or Croatia, or any of the Balkan countries. Under Tito the hatred was controlled. Once Yugoslavia broke apart, ethnic chaos ruled once again. Take a look at Germany once communism was renounced, again ethnic hatred rears it's head. How about France during the Algerian War ? I'm sure the arabs felt safe and secure:rolleyes: . How about the Scandanavian citizens that joined the SS in WWII ? As far as the genocide charge goes, yup we hosed the native americans, then again it was a cultural war waged with the ethos of the times. Was it right ? Beats me, I wasn't there. I didn't have relatives slaughtered (from either side),. It was war pure and simple that had simmered for 100 years plus. Has the US society learned from it ? Yes we have, much akin to learning from our past mistakes in regards to racism, genderism, and all the other isms that plague the world. Can we improve ? You betcha and every day we gradually do work at it , granted we still have a long way to go, but at least we're trying. May I suggest before anyone begins poking another with a stick as to the moral superiority of one's culture one should take a long look at his/her's own (myself included ;) )
-
How was invasion of Iraq illegal? Enlighten me please. We had "so called facts" that was backed by the CIA. The CIA dropped the ball. In hind sight it was illegal. But with the current facts then we had enough proff to make it legal. With war there is always backlash. Say we didn't go into Iraq, Saddam could of did something really bad. Who would get the blame. The US. Why? because then we had "facts" to go into Iraq. If we didn't go. There would of been no investigation to make the "facts" wrong. So the rest of the world would of blamed us for not taken action. I don't support the war entirely. But Saddam had to get out of power. Adn no one can say other wise.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
If you can explain what persecution you're talking about, perhaps I can.
I do believe that whole "Inquistion" thing started over there,
as did "pogrom". Not excusing what happened over on this
side of the pond, just answering a question.
-
The only difference I can see between US and European values now are that the Europeans recognize the wrongs they have done in the past, while the Americans don't. US history is clean as a whistle ... no one remembers the Indians, slaves, apartheid and political persecution in US history.
How the hell do you know we don't? You don't know what you are talking about, or else you are lying.
The U.S. has its' faults. I can tell you one major difference between U.S. and people like you: You spend most of your energy on this board pointing to our flaws, or making them up when it suits you like the above statement; whereas we don't spend our time bashing your country. Gscholz, you hate america just come out and admit it. Can there possibly be any other explanation as to why you spend so much time criticizing it?
-
Originally posted by Jayclark
How was invasion of Iraq illegal? Enlighten me please. We had "so called facts" that was backed by the CIA. The CIA dropped the ball. In hind sight it was illegal. But with the current facts then we had enough proff to make it legal. With war there is always backlash. Say we didn't go into Iraq, Saddam could of did something really bad. Who would get the blame. The US. Why? because then we had "facts" to go into Iraq. If we didn't go. There would of been no investigation to make the "facts" wrong. So the rest of the world would of blamed us for not taken action. I don't support the war entirely. But Saddam had to get out of power. Adn no one can say other wise.
I think illegal is a very strong term describing the Iraq war.
After all, the ones crying about it now did pass a UN resolution,
they just decided to interpret it differently than the Bush admin.
-
Almost every conflict since 1945 is the result of European colonialism. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
-
A classic excuse, no it was history,real live history not the revision stuff youall like so much.I never used it as an excuse ,and i told u America has paid dearly for her mistakes I only gave one example.Genocide again? ok this is genocide...U take a people u make helpless, u build camps to keep them in,u strip them of there dignity,u dig large holes ,strip them naked,shoot them untill the barrels of the weapons melt,u build gas chambers and build huge fire pits and kill millions,u do medical experaments on little boys and girls still alive with nothing for the pain.And heres a news flash it wasnt only the germans that did this and it wasnt only jews it happened to....[This is not genocide.]...and after all that and they get there own little piece of ground for a little country,and u do all u can to hinder that country. u almost always vote against it and with the people that want to do now to them what u did then.Not genocide....u make war on a people to take there lands these people did same to others 300 yrs before.these people have weapons and fight bravely and some times with wisdom.When some of them finally band together and ingage in battle they wipe out a famous general and the 7th calv.but alas they go back to fighting among them self.When u use the word genocide for this then what word do u use for the above or what your arab friends are doing in the sudan.u see once again europe has become enlighten,your values come from yourselfs you are little gods.at least 55 percent of americans still believe in judeo/christian vaules doesnt mean we follow jesus means we know there is a higher power to answer.And when that is gone and i believe it will be as I said the whole world better fear america for then we will be like u with nothing to stop us.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
America is also the result of European colonialism. Our biggest mistake yet! ;)
Demaw1, please format your text so it is readable.
Yep I blame Europe. DETH TO EUREEKA!!! :D
-
Originally posted by GScholz
America is also the result of European colonialism. Our biggest mistake yet! ;).
You're just pissed cause you Vikings dragged your feet and let the French, Spanish, Dutch and English get there. Then the French, Spanish and Dutch ended up getting lazy or getting their arses kicked.
So in the end ... even though we had a parting of the ways ... it's not so surprising that Britain and the U.S. have more in common than the continental Eurobananas. :D
-
And Vikings are the product of loney nights, Roman sentries and sheep. ;)
-
Give us your wimmins! Give us your Scandinavian wimmins or we will nuke you!
-
I didn't read the last 2 pages of this thread so something like this might have already been mentioned. It may be true that most Americans probably have never left the country. Though I'm sure many more have than some will give credit for. I've been to Mexico, Jamaca and Hawaii (ok still USA but on the others side of the ocean ya know :) ) I'd almost be willing to bet that I was exposed to more cultures by the time I was 5 years old than most of the people on this board have in thier entire lives. Yup you got it right here in good ole Tejas. The reason we don't have to go to other countries is not because America is so great and big you could spend a life time here (this is true but not the reason) The reason is that all the other cultures come here.
Heck, in my first grade class we had Indians (from India and American Indians), African Americans, African Africans, even a white African, A kid from Iran, I had a British teacher once in school. The list goes on and on and on and that was just one little neighborhood in Houston. In 3rd grade my best friend was Japanese and his mom brought the culture over here with them. We had to take off shoes in the house and everything and I got to eat all that cool rice candy stuff as a kid. On the other side of my block there was Johan and his little brother Englebert. His family had just moved here from Norway, they were very nice people. In highschool my best friends were from Iran and I learned a whole hell of a lot about thier culture from thier parents. To this day I still want to be able to visit Iran one day to see all the history they told about, maybe one day it will be safe enough.
Sure you can sit there in your country and say "America is a bunch of uncultured rednecks" but if you really believe that you're more ignorant than what you accuse us of being ;) Rednecks are just one culture in America. We have 50 states and each have thier own cultures and each have imigrants who have brought thier cultures with them and assimilated into ours. Some states have many more than one type of culture and some states share cultures with others states. You should see the looks I get in California or New York when I say "y'all" :D Like wise you should see the look a Yankee gets here in Texas when they start talking with a thick New York or Mass. accent. That's part of what makes this country so great it's the "melting pot". **** man I can drive 15 minutes from my apartment here in N. Austin and go to towns where people still speak German (Edbert will back me up on this) Where they still play oompah music (you know that German music with the Tuba and stuff like that :D)
Europe, you think you have a unique history that's not part of America's history? Well guess what? IT IS AMERICA'S HISTORY and we were taught it in school, at least the schools I went to. How many of you there in England got American history or Texas history or New York history or civil war history in school?
LOL some of you have never even been here and you think you know what makes up my country. That's just being as ignorant and bigotted as you claim Americans are. But hey if you want to live your lives being ignorant, fine by me. And dont' think I'm talking about anybody in particular here, I don't know who of you have been here or not.
funny and enlightening thread....
-
G.Scholz
My text at 9;35 pm was in response to you text at 8;33 pm.
It mostly respons to your claim of amercian genocide. if you read yours than mine it will help.sorry no format thought i had to give up computer, was in hurry.
my text at 8;43 not worth explaining.
Excluding the americans that have bought in to the european system of equilty and one world goverment,most of the rest of us are tired of being stabbed in the back by europe a europe that would not exist were it not for us... yes us not aliens or british or sea monsters not anyone but us.We do not say u have to agree with us, just leave us alone when we fell we must do something,dont do things like blame us for santions that supposely were killing innocent children in iraq when the un and some in europe were stealling billions of dollars lining your own pockets, that was suppose to go to the children.Instead of all the lies your media puts out about us just say nothing.You owe us that. I think that is it in a nutshell.
-
don't hate America, nor do I criticise America much. I do however criticize some Americans on this board fairly often, and on this board some Americans deny their own historical mistakes while blaming Europe for theirs.
Only some Americans fail to recognize our mistakes. Most Americans acknowledge the flaws of our ancestors, mistakes in our past. As an example, our westward expansion and the handling of Indians and our confiscation of Mexican territory via war. There are some interesting facts regarding our war with Mexico that I bet most people even in the U.S. are unaware of. Mexico was compicit in this.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Oh please demaw1 ... Stop blaming Europe for your failings. You're supposedly a grown up nation now, so start acting like it and take responsibility for your actions, past and present. Europe has never backstabbed America. Just like any responsible parent we grow concerned when our "children" go off on their own and insists on making the same mistakes we did in the past.
The USA is a nation, Europe is not a nation. If you want to lump your nation in under the title "Europe" and attempt to represent Europe , then I will assume you regard all of the European nations equally.
A lot of the European nations, only recently freed from the Iron Curtain, have very different opinons of the USA.
-
Europe has never backstabbed America. Just like any responsible parent we grow concerned when our "children" go off on their own and insists on making the same mistakes we did in the past. [/B]
When you say this, you seem to be implying that "Europe" is one entity, which it is not... not by a long shot.
-
Hey Gscholz, do France and Germany represent Europe and Europe's views regarding America and it's war in Iraq?
Maybe when Europe is united, it can be run by France and Germany. Wouldn't that be grand?
I'm sure all nations in Europe will be equals :lol
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Which state is running the US now? You seem to be very approving of the United States of America, but very disapproving of a United States of Europe. Hypocrisy.
We are one country, one nation. Only Texas was it's own nation before. Not even remotely the same as Europe trying to make one nation.
But hey, I dont really care if you want to be controlled by France and Germany.
-
Originally posted by Simaril
To quote a brit pretending to be a frenchman pretending to talk to a brit pretending to be King Arthur followed by a man with 2 coconuts pretending to be a horse:
"Now go away before I taunt you a second time!"
ROFL!!! "I want... a shrubbery! - not too expensive..." :lol
-
Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL!!! "I want... a shrubbery! - not too expensive..." :lol
Hey Beetle
-
Originally posted by GScholz
The United States of America was founded by only 13 states. The last five states to join did so in the 20th century. Benefits of a classical education.
So , how many US states used to be seperate countries? Europe has countries and cultures hundreds and often thousands of years old...... kind of a different animal imo.
-
Hey Nuke!
Originally posted by NUKE
But hey, I dont really care if you want to be controlled by France and Germany.
If you're talking to GScholz, you're talking to the wrong guy when you said that. Norway is not part of the European Onion. And they're doing very nicely without it.
-
maybe, but he sure seems to relate his opinions in a European scope. :lol
-
Originally posted by beet1e
Hey Nuke! If you're talking to GScholz, you're talking to the wrong guy when you said that. Norway is not part of the European Onion. And they're doing very nicely without it.
Beetle, the EU, in my opinion, will be so powerful that non EU member states in Europe could not afford to exist outside of it. I see the writing on the wall and I don't like it.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Beetle, the EU, in my opinion, will be so powerful that non EU member states in Europe could not afford to exist outside of it. I see the writing on the wall and I don't like it.
GS beat me to it. Norway is far better off outside the EU. They have large sources of oil/gas and a huge fishing industry. If they were to join the EU, not only would they be net payers (subsidising the poorer countries like Latvia/Lithuania) but their fishing waters could be plundered by countries like Spain, the way ours were.
Speaking of fishing, the European Onion - in its infinite wisdom of pretending that all 25 Onion states are the same - recently awarded millions of euros to the fishing industries of the newly subscribed Onion members. But these included the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Hungary - landlocked countries which have no coastline and therefore no fishing industry. :rofl
This is an example of EU waste which Norway has been able to sidestep by not joining.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
The point is the USA is a mix of a lot of people and cultures ... just like Europe.
Benefits of Google.
Damn that Google! Mixin' people and cultures and stuff!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I'm outside of the EU and want in. Beetle is inside and want out. The irony. :)
LOL! No, I'm all for free trade, abolition of border controls etc., but I want none of this Euro Federalism.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Find one European country that did worse in the last 100 years or so, except Germany and the Soviet block.
Ummm....
Isn't that like saying "find me someone taller than me, excluding the people who are taller than me"?
Besides, outside of germany and the soviet block (which are, what, 60% of europe), who had the influence and power to do worse?
See, if you set up the parameters right you can make any statement true!!!
-
Gscholz just exhibit the classic signs of "small mans syndrome" or "noodle Envy "when it comes to his country. Otherwise he would have popped in the thread, seen it was it a political discussion and left since he is not American.
Only his hatred of America and our in his words "Criminal" State keep him posting.
Crumpp
-
Found some more Americans to argue with I see, eh Gsholtz? ;):lol
-
Originally posted by GScholz
So you agree that the US has done worse in the last 100 years than Europe except Germany and the Soviets. Thank you for your honesty ... even if it was a bit veiled.
Nice way to twist words while missing the point completely -- are you a lawyer, by chance?
Nothing the US has EVER done can possibly compare with the European wars of the last 100 years, and the multiple genocides european philosophies have directly created. It is dishonest for you to ignore the 100s of millions europeans have killed jsut so you can crticise the US.
And within the reach of their more limited powers, other european nations have misbehaved as well. France's actions in Africa and the far east were pretty stinky. (BTW, I for one would never criticise French courage and fighting prowess -- although thats a popular theme around here. The attitude just shows historical ignorance, IMO) Serbia and Croatia behaved in reprehensible ways, AFTER the soviet block disintegrated but couldnt spread their poison beyond their borders due to political and economic weakness. How would you judge them? I would assess by their intent and nature, not their reach -- so they outrank US too in sheer nastiness. Don't forget that US troops are in teh Balkans for no direct benefit to ourselves, at the cost of treasure and soldier's lives. Why do you ignore the benefits of US actions, and focus only on the percieved failings?
-
Originally posted by Simaril
Nice way to twist words while missing the point completely -- are you a lawyer, by chance?
Nothing the US has EVER done can possibly compare with the European wars of the last 100 years, and the multiple genocides european philosophies have directly created. It is dishonest for you to ignore the 100s of millions europeans have killed jsut so you can crticise the US.
And within the reach of their more limited powers, other european nations have misbehaved as well. France's actions in Africa and the far east were pretty stinky. (BTW, I for one would never criticise French courage and fighting prowess -- although thats a popular theme around here. The attitude just shows historical ignorance, IMO) Serbia and Croatia behaved in reprehensible ways, AFTER the soviet block disintegrated but couldnt spread their poison beyond their borders due to political and economic weakness. How would you judge them? I would assess by their intent and nature, not their reach -- so they outrank US too in sheer nastiness. Don't forget that US troops are in teh Balkans for no direct benefit to ourselves, at the cost of treasure and soldier's lives. Why do you ignore the benefits of US actions, and focus only on the percieved failings?
He's hopeless. leave him to his delusions, or not he's actually quite entertaining. How much ignorance could there be condensed into 1500g.
-
GS, talking about both sides of an issue is called balance. Being fair to both sides is called objectivity.
Thought the definitions might be useful, judging from your writings.
Reread what's been written by others above-- you'll see both balance and objectivity demonstrated in many US postings. How about the Norwegian ones?
-
Originally posted by GScholz
God knows there are enough Americans here that wants to argue, that's for sure. :)
Where have you been btw? Everything ok?
I'm sure its all "their" problem and none of it is yours. ;)
I've been in Minnesota, Montana, and Eastern WA, family reunion (thats always fun, 1/2 the family is Swedish, the other half is German), fishing, hiking, and camping.
-
Oh, and I just rrealized you did it again -- missed the point of the posting. (By choice? Hmmm.)
You claimed US actions worse than european ones, but now you're ignoring the rebuttal. Any comment?
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Almost every conflict since 1945 is the result of European colonialism. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
:)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Consider the fact that I stared in this thread by complimenting, even defending, America.
What we have here, is a failure to communi...er...scrambled eggs
-
he's actually quite entertaining.
You got it!! In the same way a Circus Clown entertains us. You just have to see what the next stupid antic is going to be.
Crumpp
-
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GScholz
Consider the fact that I stared in this thread by complimenting, even defending, America.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What we have here, is a failure to communi...er...scrambled eggs
==============================================
No what we have is that moment just after you lifted the rock and the roach scurries for cover. He runs a short distance and hides under twig but still in plain view.
Crumpp
-
God Bless America!!
Crumpp
-
scholz re.lack of ethnic cleansing by france..
1.As I said france and the herons were the reason the mohawks were wiped out....
2. As important france sent an ontold number of jews to the concentraction camps and gas chambers...ok u forgot about the mohawks how did u for get about the jews.
last 2 questions ...
1. Do you believe norway system of goverment is superior to irans?
2 You seem to feel so good about norways position visa vie european union you have a TREATY with them,are u so nieve u dont see norways problem? Is norway really ever going to go against anything the eu wants...I promise you the day will come when norway will bow to the will of the un or be invaded by the eu. better get your air raid warning system up to snuff.Who you going to cry out to then maybe u will leave us out of it for once and appeal to canada,I am sure they wiil respond and send their armies to help...
anyone from anywhere of any policitcal bent , do u think i am the nieve and stupid one or do u think my second question has merit ?
thks demaw.
-
No I think you are on the right track Demaw.
Do we really want the World at this point being run by majority rule?
Do we want governments like Zimbabwe determining the direction more educated and democratic Societies take?
If you're not familiar with that situation:
Zimbabwe wanted to dismantle the large, rich farms in the country and redistribute the land to the poor. They began passing legislation designed to run the white farmers out of the country and give the land to black farmers. The white farmers and thousands of their workers were persecuted and many of the farmers were forced to flee the country. Leaving behind thousands of workers with no income, housing, or means of protection. The land was redistributed but mostly to Mugabe's political cronies. Now they are relying on International aid to avert a humanitarian crisis because they cannot produce enough food. In relatively short time frame they have gone from exporting food to their neighbors to having to rely on handouts.
3/4's of the member nations making up the UN voting members cannot handle their own internal affairs responsibly. What makes anyone think they should be able to determine the direction the World takes?
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
3/4's of the member nations making up the UN voting members cannot handle their own internal affairs responsibly. What makes anyone think they should be able to determine the direction the World takes?
Crumpp
Crumpp, that would be postwar US, UK, France, China, USSR -- Un's founding superpowers.....
:confused:
-
Under appreciated.
This is a quote form another thread that GScholz posted at. The thread was descrice America. He dosen't hate us, he just trying to make a point we aren't perfect. Even though I still say we are.;)
-
sensitive
-
Crumpp, that would be postwar US, UK, France, China, USSR -- Un's founding superpowers.....
I was not refering to the Security Council.
http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/unsc_members.html
I was refering to the General Assembly Member Nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_member_states
Hope that makes my earlier post clearer for you!
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Nash
sensitive
[edit]Oops... posted this in the wrong Yay-USA thread[/edit]
-
Almost every conflict since 1945 is the result of European colonialism. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
:)
-
Originally posted by NUKE
So , how many US states used to be seperate countries?
All of them... before the Civil War.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
All of them... before the Civil War.
what are you talking about?
-
Comparing the US to the European countries in question is apples and oranges. The US isn't even 250 years old, while it's being compared to countries at least 3-4 times as old.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
what are you talking about?
State sovreignty.
-
GScholz - slightly off topic, but can you tell me, in a couple of lines, why you want Norway to be a part of the EU? In what way do you see Norway benefiting from that?
-
If you are so against the USA then why bother with us? Are you just looking to stir the pot?
I could really care less what you think of the USA.
Lets see here. It was back in 87 or 88. Not sure which now. I had the pleasure of meeting a platoon of Brit Para's who were training at Ft. Bragg,NC. Good bunch of guys. Went out to the bars with them and we all tied on a good drunk. Now I wonder what makes those guys any different than you Beetle?
Why the animosity towards the USA? We really disturb you that much?
Oh and by the way. My heritage is English on my mothers side.
Guess that side of the family decided to come to the good ole' USA
and set up shop. My fathers side is Hungarian.
I really can't see how my country has anything to do with yours and how it affects your daily life? That goes for all of the other Euro's here putting us down.
GScholz,
HAs it ever occured to you that you could be speaking German today? Could be your national language instead of Norwegian.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
The former Yugoslavia, civil war and ethnic cleansing ... they are about on par with the US, albeit on a smaller scale. France, war in Africa and Southeast Asia. You have your Vietnam, and the French lack the ethnic cleansing, and apartheid part. I'd give France the better mark, but it's a close race. The rest of the European nations are way down on the "worst" list compare to the US.
There, that's my comment.
GScholz, that's about the most ignorant and idiotic thing I've read here in quite a bit.
While most countries have done many things that are abhorent, I think that the United States would rank among the historically most altruistic of nations.
Of course we have out faults, and of course we have made mistakes, but the intentions and ideals of THE PEOPLE of the US are undeniable, and your relentless PR against the general and common goodwill of the people of my country causes us to doubt your intentions.
I'm glad we were able to give you the opportunity of freedom that you have, and the ability to speak your mind, but the ideals that have sprung forth, and the information that you take as truth, regardless of the facts that are presented to you, make me hope that you are not representative of your fair country.
-
Originally posted by SEgunner
Why the animosity towards the USA? We really disturb you that much?
What animosity? And why the outburst?
-
none of them liberated Norway.
The Mighty Norwiegens rose up and threw off the yoke of oppression!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Crumpp
The Mighty Norwiegens rose up and threw off the yoke of oppression!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Crumpp
With a Herring
-
So when the US yesterday, through ambassador John Doyle Ong, actually responded to the anti-American sentiments in Norway, there seemed almost a momentary stunned silence - "Oh, right, we're not alone" - quickly followed by reactions ranging from hurt to angry. What Doyle Ong pointed out, and what should have been pointed out long ago, was that Norway's hesitancy to support our most important ally may damage the relationship between our countries.
"When Norway's security has been threatened, the US has been there... not just three times out of four, but every time," Ong said. He likened the situation to two old friends, with one of them asking for help and, "for one reason or another," not getting it from the other. When that happens, Ong said, "the relationship changes."
Link (http://www.bearstrong.net/warblog/000075.html)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
USA's ambassador to Norway now goes as far as to suggest that Norway cannot expect help from the US in a crisis, unless we support the war against Iraq.[/i]
Worst piece of diplomacy I've ever seen. It was not Norway who showed her true colors that day. We never put a price on our friendship.
I'd argue your government already weighed the value of our friendship and put the price on it. Your country refused to stand by ours in a time of war. All the Ambassador said was we might decline to stand by you if you were attacked.
-
While I am not interested in a pissing match, basically it seems the USA has in the past stood by Norway everytime it needed or asked for it. Norway in response is now saying "we will choose when and if we feel like supporting you when you ask".
USA response, "we will remember that attitude next time you look to us". Seems reasonable.
dago
-
NORWAY HAS TROOPS IN IRAQ! you ignorant. We support our allies on the battlefield ... even if they don't deserve it.
Send them home. Who cares.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Our special forces were THE FIRST in Afghanistan.
Norway had SF on the ground in Afghanistan in 1977? I had no idea.
Originally posted by GScholz
We sent F-16s too, and they dropped bombs in anger for the first time in Norwegian history
I've no idea how long Norway has existed but if they never fired a shot in anger until the 21st century how'd they defeat the nazis without any help like you claimed earlier?
Originally posted by GScholz
... FOR YOU.
Bad motive. You should have your troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in order to kill as many Radical Islamic r-a-g-h-e-a-d-s as you can, not for the USA, but for the future of western civilization. Because it is the destruction of western civilization that they seek.
Originally posted by GScholz
NORWAY HAS TROOPS IN IRAQ! you ignorant. We support our allies on the battlefield ... even if they don't deserve it.
What is the current troop strenght? Is it more than 1% of the coalition? What objectives were taken by the Noweigan army during the war? Which cities are now being patrolled by your army? Educate me.
Don't misunderstand, if your countrymen are participating in the war against radical islam then I am happy to have you on our side. But this is a war, like it or not. There is no middle ground when dealing with these pieces of human debris. We either wipe them out or they us.
-
I'm sorry, but we are NOT fighting a religious war.
With respect, you are 100% wrong here. Since our enemy is fighting a religious war, so are we.
-
Steve alludes to the fact that one cannot ignore the motivation of the enemy .... especially if one chooses to demotivate them.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
ALL our remaining standing forces are in Afghanistan.
ALERT! Norway is undefended. ALERT!
Good thing Sweeden and Finland got your back :D
-
This is turning into one of the funniest threads in a while.
eddie, send me an email,
dago
-
I have 6 of them in the old address book, dunno which ones you still have. I just sent a single message to all 6, guess I'll see a few bounce.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
All our STANDING forces. We got about 5,000 currently serving their obligatory military service (draftees) in training, and about 300,000 in reserve.
So all 5,000 of the STANDING ones are in Afghanistan (other than the engineers in Iraq)?
I guess Sweeden and Finland can relax, there are 300,000 SITTING soldiers left.
-
We have our combat engineers in Iraq. ALL our remaining standing forces are in Afghanistan.
Send them home.
-
I'm a proud dutchman what our little country achieved in history is very big.
We also have a much longer history.
where a kingdom something the USA never will be and buy
:)
USA is nice and represents all countrys of the world the only real american is an indian u see :)
its good to be proud as long not ignorant.
-
We sent F-16s too, and they dropped bombs in anger for the first time in Norwegian history
Yeah, Let me tell you about the Norwegian F16's. In one ambush I was in, we had a Norwegian F16 overhead providing Air support.
Our Combat Controller requested Air support since the bad guys we were recieving Machinegun fire and RPG rockets from both sides of the road.
First the Norwegian Pilot tells us he cannot see anything and is not allowed to go below 15,000 feet to try and ID the targets.
We NEVER had a pilot tell us this as they would immediately request permission to go below the ceiling when the "Troops in Contact" call came over the radio net.
AWACS immediately got on the net and Ordered the pilot to get as close as he needed to see the targets.
The Norwegian pilot flew over once, called out he was recieving ground fire, and immediately left. The Combat Controller never saw him nor did anyone view any tracer heading up into the sky.
AWACS came over the radio and immediately removed the Norwegian F16 offstation. Told him to land and disarm. A German pilot requested to support us, came in, made two gun runs and dropped all of his ordinace on multiple targets. We used the tracer's from our .50 cals to mark where we wanted his bombs. Every one was on time and on target. The German returned to base, rearmed and showed up overhead 40 minutes later to drop more if we needed it. This was in addition to the schedualed Air Cover.
Yeah, TAKE YOUR FORCES AND GO HOME!
Crumpp
-
You guys can't be for real.
Crummp sounds for real. So bring them home Norway, have a parade for them and all go pee in the snow or what ever it is you do there.
btw Crummp, and thanks for all do and have done for us.
-
Originally posted by Slash27
You guys can't be for real.
Crummp sounds for real. So bring them home Norway, have a parade for them and all go pee in the snow or what ever it is you do there.
btw Crummp, and thanks for all do and have done for us.
Hear, hear
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Norway was the only country occupied by the Germans that wasn't liberated by the Allies. The Germans surrendered to the Norwegian Homefront resistance forces, by far the largest organized armed resistance force of the war with 40,000 men and women under arms.
I have no doubt that the Allies would have liberated Norway had the Germans not surrendered, but it never came to that.
(http://www.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00088/null_88732a.jpg)
The Germans surrender to the Norwegian Homefront, May 8th 1945
both Germans surrenderred?
-
German pilot requested to support us, came in, made two gun runs and dropped all of his ordinace on multiple targets. We used the tracer's from our .50 cals to mark where we wanted his bombs. Every one was on time and on target. The German returned to base, rearmed and showed up overhead 40 minutes later to drop more if we needed it. This was in addition to the schedualed Air Cover.
WTG German pilot!!!
!!!!!!!!!
-
scholz.... lack of ethnic cleansing...
Make no mistake it was germanys crime, but all countries that participated were part of it.There are several books that said in the neighborhood 70000 french jews were killed,Because of the entitys these authors were affilated with I am very suspect,but I didnt say french jews I said jews.France deported an untold number of jews that had escaped germany austria and other countries.They used their police,their trains,their trucks yes and some even participated although that number was small and maybe to be expected in any country,never the less they still did it,that in my book is genocide.
the number of jews in a country makes no never mind,if there were 10 jews in france the muslims would find them.
Ah scholz i am so sorry honest, the european union is nothing but a power grab by france and germany to compete and maybe topple the u.s. economically and on par military,all toward a 1 world goverment.When this comes about norway will wave its piece of paper called treaty to no avail, as every other country in the history of the world has.So if i am delusional I am in great company of billy mitchell and all the others who look at history and give warning.
example; many countries want at least a mention of God in their constitution,saying that mans rights come from something higher than man.But the great french leader was opposed saying...this is a seclur union made by seclur men,we do not help from anyone or anything else.Let me see....godless communism...godless nazisism....godless fascistism....and now godless european union emm will the outcome be differant?? I think not. and all in less than 100 years.
-
WTG German pilot!!!
ditto <>
-
Originally posted by Steve
WTG German pilot!!!
!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, Is this a first? A Luftwaffe Jabo supporting the US army? Thank God they are on our side!!!!!
-
Demaw you are way wrong on the EU. It is not Anti American or militaristic in nature. The idea of if is to prevent something like that happening again. For your scenario to come true. Both countries would have to go Fascist and somehow bring the other 23 countries with them. Can you really see that happening? Particularly the British? I can't. But only time will tell.
-
Originally posted by Slash27
You guys can't be for real.
Crummp sounds for real. So bring them home Norway, have a parade for them and all go pee in the snow or what ever it is you do there.
btw Crummp, and thanks for all do and have done for us.
once again I am in agreement with my man slash.
:P
-
<
> Guys!
Really appreciate the support and will pass it on to the guys. It means a whole lot. Make no mistake though, we are public servants, volunteers, and only fufilling the oath we swore to uphold.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Nice story Crumpp, to bad it's just a story. The Norwegian F-16s always flew in two ship formations. Not once was a lone RNoAF F-16 flying anywhere in Afghanistan. The F-16s that served in Afghanistan are based a mere kilometre from my home, and I know on good authority that every time they were called upon to engage the enemy they did so, and every time both planes dropped ordinance. I know you hate me Crumpp, but even so I did respect you for your service and apparent integrity as a soldier. No longer ... you Sir are a liar and a disgrace.
*gasp*
you have incurred the displeasure of scholz, immediately slit your wrists. gunther, did you consider that the other norwiegian might have been malingering and looking for the rare and endangered blind red cave dwelling herring? or that maybe he was way off course surfing internet porn?
-
Well good,
Look up the one that was flying on 10 Feb 2003, the first day of contact during Operation Eagle Fury. I'd like to kick his ***.
Crumpp
-
Well Gscholz,
The papers also said we killed 48 women and children. They also said a "Brigade of Special Forces" was involved. They also said there were only 5 bad guys. They also said the 82nd was involved from day one....
All of these are flat out WRONG and not true.
Tell you what, go wave your flag, be proud of your country AND bring your boys home. They were not much use to us when we needed them.
Crumpp
-
So what Gsholtz, I could care less what some internet site says. Let me clue you in to the fact their where NO Norwegian Armed Forces reporters on the ground. For that matter there were NONE around for several hundred miles. Not a single reporter showed up the entire 3 day fight nor for the 2 weeks which followed.
I was there on the ground manning a .50 cal and Doug our CCT guy was in the back behind me on the radio directing our Air Support. It was my .50 cal which marked the targets after we reentered the Kill Zone to get our guys who were trapped in an overturned vehicle.
Again, Wave your flag, be proud of your country, and bring your boys home. They are not needed.
Crumpp
-
Is this thread ever going to die? Must have 9 lives.
-
BTW
There were two F16's that morning. We only needed ONE to come down, ID the target and drop a bomb.
We only talk to one of them, the Flight leader. Only time we talk to his wingman is when he is going to make a run. And when they make a bomb run it is only one plane at a time. It's not an airshow and they don't fly low on the deck potentially exposed to ground fire together. The second bird will remain high and pull cover.
So in the end whether there were Zero or a Hundred, they accomplished the same thing.
Crumpp
-
Crumpp and thank you very very much for your service.
Gscholz, stick a sock in it. Crumpp was there on the ground while you were at home *****ing about hitler. Yeah please take your "military" home. It wouldn't seem that you're needed or wanted. Get the hint?
A big fat , thank you and WTG! to the German pilot too!
-
"You aren't there with us, thanks for NOTHING!"
"Well, actually we ARE there."
"Oh.....uh, WELL GO HOME!"
holyshreck... tools.
-
scholz
I think that the wing man stays high and wont come down encase of a shoulder missile or some other surprise and incase of enemy aircraft.They will change places after ord. is released if there are only 2 in entire flight. So it is possible to happen as crumpp said.
On another thread u talked about norways underground.You are right of the books I have read they were the best trained,created the most havoc,and were gung ho to do about anything the allied command would have them do.
It is possible the flyers commander would not let him go below 15000 feet as it is my understanding that was the orders for some countries ,dont know which ones.
May I say germans will always be germans and when they are on your side that is a very good thing.
-
gee crumpp i am sorry i forgot to say thank you for your service to our country,from me and my family.
-
gee crumpp i am sorry i forgot to say thank you for your service to our country,from me and my family.
I second that. Would of been there if i could, but was in a car crash and hurt my back. 3 surgerys later and only 1 more to go. At least they keep saying this is your last one.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
That was Germany's crime. More Jews were saved by the French than from any other occupied country in WWII,
.
GS just want to clarify . The Jews that survived in France were not on the whole saved by the French. There were many reasons that they survived.
And although many survived the murderous Nazi's a significant number did not.:(
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005429
-
Originally posted by Silat
GS just want to clarify . The Jews that survived in France were not on the whole saved by the French. There were many reasons that they survived.
And although many survived the murderous Nazi's a significant number did not.:(
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005429
can anyone say Claus Barbie, the butcher of Lyons????
-
holyshreck... tools.
eat me jerkoff
-
Originally posted by Silat
GS just want to clarify . The Jews that survived in France were not on the whole saved by the French. There were many reasons that they survived.
And although many survived the murderous Nazi's a significant number did not.:(
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005429
Completly right, even if there is some counter-example to your affirmation.
I'll never say the jew that escaped the holocaust where saved by the french.
In you link there is an affirmation I've never read : 1/3 of the deported jew where French citizen ... when the jew population in France in 1940 was 50% french native and 50% refugees (as far as I know).
Does it mean the french jew where protected ?
I can't affirm that , but I've read of a policeman who helped a french jew familly escape BUT handled a polish jew familly to the gestapo ...
But again I'm certainly biased having ties with the Edmond Michelet familly.
-
Is this thread done yet? damn......
-
Nope NUKe it didn't ended
I'm trying to keep up with last night posts :D
demaw1 you don't have your fact right.
Originally posted by demaw1
scholz.... lack of ethnic cleansing...
Make no mistake it was germanys crime, but all countries that participated were part of it.There are several books that said in the neighborhood 70000 french jews were killed,Because of the entitys these authors were affilated with I am very suspect,but I didnt say french jews I said jews.France deported an untold number of jews that had escaped germany austria and other countries.They used their police,their trains,their trucks yes and some even participated although that number was small and maybe to be expected in any country,never the less they still did it,that in my book is genocide.
1/3 of those 70000 where french citizen (see silat link)
That's said it's still an infamy for France to have collaborated actively with the nazis.
[/B]
example; many countries want at least a mention of God in their constitution,saying that mans rights come from something higher than man.But the great french leader was opposed saying...this is a seclur union made by seclur men,we do not help from anyone or anything else.Let me see....godless communism...godless nazisism....godless fascistism....and now godless european union emm will the outcome be differant?? I think not. and all in less than 100 years. [/B]
Complete BS,God is not mentionned either in the Human Right bill. Never God was mentionned in French republic constitution.
FYI during Vichy regime the constitution was suspended ! Vichy used christianism to legitimate itself,using the unconditionnal support the french religious autority showed to Pétain.
Plus Vichy anti-semitism got it's root in the traditionnal christian anti-semitism advocated by the right-wing religious nuts.
History showed us how God can be used as a tool by the regime to support extreme view not only in the 40's but also long before when it was a monarchy in France.
In short : god in the constitution
No , thanks, I don't want to open the door of the right-wing moron.
-
Yeah, Let me tell you about the Norwegian F16's. In one ambush I was in, we had a Norwegian F16 overhead providing Air support.
Where was this and what plane did the german flew???
if it was afghanistan and the the planes both where f16's it was probably dutch.
i'm just wondering
-
It started interesting.
Now....
Another thread down.
:(
Soooo boring.
-
Originally posted by Naso
It started interesting.
Now....
Another thread down.
:(
Soooo boring.
...and it was almost dead too, nearly 8 hours had passed until someone resuccitated it :(
-
Bug,
Yeah we had Dutch Air Support but these guys were Norwegien. I was a little busy but I want to say the German was in a Tornado.
This was in Afghanistan.
Crumpp
-
Bug,
Yeah we had Dutch Air Support but these guys were Norwegien. I was a little busy but I want to say the German was in a Tornado.
This was in Afghanistan.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by storch
The United States of America has fought and paid with the blood of it's generous people for the liberation of more people around the world than any other country, ever. I'm truly, truly thankful for the opportunity that this great nation offered myself and my people. I am very proud to be an American.
I wonder if Romans said the same thing?
...-Gixer
-
I wonder if Romans said the same thing?
I am sure they did. Just as the Germans probably told themselves the same thing about Poland.
There is a huge difference though. The US is not looking for Empire, our nation has always been uncomfortable ruling others. It comes from our own beginings as colonies which won their Independance. No we just want folks to stop flying planes into our buildings.
Contrary to your belief the world IS a safer place after Iraq.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by mietla
both Germans surrenderred?
No, look carefully, the one on the right is trying to sneak away.
-
Thanks for your support Jayclark and demaw.
Crumpp
-
Originally posted by Lazerus
While most countries have done many things that are abhorent, I think that the United States would rank among the historically most altruistic of nations.
GScholtzIn your short history as a nation you have made many, if not all of the same mistakes other countries have made, including genocide, political persecution and apartheid. I do not consider the USA to be more good willed or altruistic that most other democratic nations.
Yes, in our short history we learned the mistakes that other countries and cultures took many centuries to learn and overcome. We as a people have overcome these flaws faster than any nation, by your own admission. If you do not consider the United States to be more good willed or altruistic than most other nations then you are blind to your own facts by those simple facts.
Originally posted by Lazerus
Of course we have out faults, and of course we have made mistakes, but the intentions and ideals of THE PEOPLE of the US are undeniable, and your relentless PR against the general and common goodwill of the people of my country causes us to doubt your intentions.
GScholtzI am not conducting a "relentless PR" campaign against the "general and common goodwill of the people" of your country, nor do I presume to speak for anyone but myself, unlike you.
Your posts speak for themselves. They tend to be wholly anti-American. I'm sorry if you don't/won't/can't see that.
I 'presume' to speak only for myself and my fellow countryman that have expressed the same views as I.
:Originally posted by Lazerus
I'm glad we were able to give you the opportunity of freedom that you have, and the ability to speak your mind, but the ideals that have sprung forth, and the information that you take as truth, regardless of the facts that are presented to you, make me hope that you are not representative of your fair country.
GScholtzThe USA has not given us "the opportunity of freedom" that we have. The USA was only one of many nations that fought against Germany in WWII, and none of them liberated Norway. As for being representative of my countrymen ... no I am not. I am considered to be very Pro-American by my friends and colleagues.
[/i]
Yes, Norway has a great tradition, and there are many great people that have come from there, and their resistance to Nazi Germany was more than admirable, but.......................... ....., would they have recieved that surrender?..............if not for?...............?All of the countries that fought helped,but............I think if you go back and look, there was a turning point.
__________________
-
Wow...this thread has grown :eek: