Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K3 on July 11, 2004, 04:45:03 PM
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Why does USA support/protect Israel and its special interest? What do we have there that is so important to the U.S.?
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Maybe you should try to get some unbiased information on the matter before posting? These neo-nazi/pro-arab/anti-jewish brainwash campaigns get really old really fast.
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(http://www.digithink.co.nz/skotelimages/Ruapehu%20DC%20image%20library/fly%20fishing%201.jpg)
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1.those that bless isreal shall be blessed
2.we have always been for the under dog
3. we were founded on judeo/christian principals
4.as some americans do,isreal has a decent moral compass
5.those that hate isreal dont want to just defeat her in battle,but wipe her out as a people as in no more jews alive anywhere,as long as americas moral compass is decent we wont let that happen,oil or no oil.
6. isreal is greatfull and doesnt just pay lipservice to friendship .....so far
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Nah Capt. Pork... Innapropriate picture considering the post. Downrigger woulda been more like it.
But in answer to the post... I'm guessing a huge amount of Jewish voters has something to do with it.
But it's the right thing to do, imho.
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I'm guessing a huge amount of Jewish voters has something to do with it.
How huge? Let's see some numbers.
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I don't have numbers.
But it's significant enough that neither side would want to piss them off by abandoning Israel.
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Originally posted by Nash
I'm guessing a huge amount of Jewish voters has something to do with it.
Not votes as much as campaign contributions... Jews are only some 2% of the population and even if all of them voted it wouldnt be such a huge issue. Plus something like 70-80% of Jews vote democratic anyway. Votes may be a bigger factor this year though because there are so many Jews living in Florida.
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Originally posted by Nash
But in answer to the post... I'm guessing a huge amount of Jewish voters has something to do with it.
Don't forget Christian Zionism.
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heh... I don't even know what that stuff means.
I do know that the first president or presidential candidate who says "enough, we're out of Israel" better take up a new hobby.
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Yes ironically a lot of fundementalist christians have become very pro israel.
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Originally posted by Nash
Nah Capt. Pork... Innapropriate picture considering the post. Downrigger woulda been more like it.
I just like the look on the guy's face as he casts... Very concentrated, very deliberate.
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Originally posted by Nash
heh... I don't even know what that stuff means.
Basically... The rapture can't happen if the Jews aren't in Israel.
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ahh the rapture!
okay... :D
This is just a bigger example to me of why the need for seperation of church and state.
I still don't get it, but one thing I do know is that some sort of rapture should have nothing to do with anything. :)
(I know you were kiddin')
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Originally posted by Nash
(I know you were kiddin')
Sadly, I was not.
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well ok technically you weren't kidding... but maybe being a wise-arse because the reason the US supports Israel has not much, I think, to do with the US citizen's desire for rapture. :)
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There are quite a few that believe George Bush is a christian zionist.
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ah okay... that's over my head... I think Marley mentioned Zion once but that's the most I know of it.
It's the reason why I never get involved in Israel threads :)
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Originally posted by Nash
ahh the rapture!
Now this would be an interesting topic for discussion, among the believers/religious people, etc.........
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I Support Isreal, because as bad as they are, they are still better then the Pals, or most of the other arabs countries.
I can not support a people who strap bombs to their kids.
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So you support a country which is using apartheid, uses caterpillars for destroying often innocent people¨s houses, shoots missiles to apartment buildings knowing there are innocent people living there, occupies areas of other countries and is practising "Lebensraum"-policy the nazies were famous about.
OK.
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I refuse to support Israel just like I refuse to support the Palestinians because they are both acting uncivilized.
Did Israel pay anything to the Pals who got their houses destroyed so that Sharon could build is wall? Nope
In situations like this you should ask yourself one question:
If my gov did that to me, would I be outraged?
If you answer yes then you should not support it.
If you do you are an hypocrit.
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I'm fairly certain that all US-Israeli policy is conducted with the singular goald of getting Pongo's shorts in a knot.
This is the one constant in our ME policy.
-Sik
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Originally posted by AVRO1
Did Israel pay anything to the Pals who got their houses destroyed so that Sharon could build is wall? Nope
Did the Pals pay anything to the people who had their businesses destoyed by the suicide bombers that are supported by Arafat? Nope
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Yeah Staga.
Just like I assume you support a people willing to send kids to blow up inocents in public places.
Like I said both sides suck, the pals just suck more.
The second the Pals smarten up and stop using terrorist tactics, I will switch sides. If they used peacfull protests like the ones used in the south here, they would get their goals and would have the moral high ground.
Sending their people out with TNT for belts does not give them that, even with the bull dozers and walls.
Your Nazi comparison is not going to work very well, unless the IDF starts making large ovens.
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In 1968, Martin Luther King Jr., addressed his listeners with the following words:
"You declare that you do not hate Jews, you are merely anti-Zionist. And I say, let the truth ring forth from high on the mountaintops... When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews... What is anti-Zionism? It is the denial of the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the globe.''
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Originally posted by 1K3
Why does USA support/protect Israel and its special interest? What do we have there that is so important to the U.S.?
1. Israel is a democracy. Means: USA (and Europe) share the same values and ideas.
2. Israel is an important ally in an area of global interest (oil)
I think these 2 points show the bandwidth between idealistic and materialistic motives to support israel.
Perhaps in the last 20 years point 2 went ahead of point 1. But this may change back in the future.
To be even more clear: I think Sharon is a big handicap for Israel and the sooner he leaves the better. (Except for the case that he is followed by somebody like Netanjahu)
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Originally posted by Krusher
Did the Pals pay anything to the people who had their businesses destoyed by the suicide bombers that are supported by Arafat? Nope
No, but 2 wrongs still don't make one right.
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Forget it Krusher
Any one that believes that Israel and palistine are morally equal is to far gone already.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Any one that believes that Israel and palistine are morally equal is to far gone already.
The Palestinian leadership is no better then the Israeli one.
Why do people always interpret what you write on these boards. Sharon had a village full of people shelled while Arafat is suppporting people blowing themselves up to kill innocents.
Bottom line is simple: If they condone the killing of innocents they are criminals. If you support one killing of innocents then why not the other? It's either ok or it's not.
It might be idealistic but it's true.
I don't make distinction between races, I consider every individual by their actions.
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Avro re; palestinian leadership no differant then Israels.
Thank you for making the points i have been trying to make so well. Typical European response as they believe in equality not liberty.
Palestinian[ Arab] leaders statement and motto...We will be the final victors in this war,we will push the jew into the ocean and he will be no more...Why because we arabs love and worship death,where as the Jew loves and worship life,
Israel takes a little bit of desert and makes an oasis out of it,she now supplies europe with 80 percent of the friut europe eats.
Arabs teach their kids from birth to hate the jew,breed kids to wrap bombs around them selves and blow up babies and mutalate others.
The I sraelis are forced into a war they dont want,and as war goes do things they feel they have to to protect themselves.Un like the europeans the Isaelis do not consider them selves little gods, There are times they just dont know what to do to stop the march of death and make mistakes and some supposed innocents are killed.BUT unlike Arabs they do not target innocents.
This is morally equal? I submit to you it is morally bankrupt.
The allies in ww2 bombed many cities that made us equal to the nazis? Well europe you have somehow convinced 40 percent of America to embrace the morals of europe God help us all.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Why does USA support/protect Israel and its special interest? What do we have there that is so important to the U.S.?
Apparently the large Israeli lobby pucnhes above it's weight due to the fact that although the actual numbers of Jewish voters is relatively small in the USA - say 3% - they all make sure they vote which means that they are 5-6% of the vote, enough to be very nb to potential politicians.
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Jewish lobby. Sad but true it has a larger amount of sway than it should. The fact that most Congressmen are without integrity and can easily be bought/controlled in one manner or another is hardly unknown.
It's a long sad story that these pathetic excuses have done so much damage to our country and will go unpunished. Not only unpunished, they continue to vote themselves raises and huge pensions and benefits. Greedy scum sucking lowlifes.
So, Jewish lobby buys them, we support Israel. Israel shxts on us, is never forced to seek peace with the Palestinians. We give Israel more money.
Frustrating.
dago
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Thank you for making the points i have been trying to make so well. Typical European response as they believe in equality not liberty.
Palestinian[ Arab] leaders statement and motto...We will be the final victors in this war,we will push the jew into the ocean and he will be no more...Why because we arabs love and worship death,where as the Jew loves and worship life,
Demaw, that's not what the main Palestinian leaders say. It's roughly what Hamas says.
The PLO leadership adopted a two state policy in the 80s, that is an Israeli Jewish state and a Palestinian Arab state.
Israel takes a little bit of desert and makes an oasis out of it,she now supplies europe with 80 percent of the friut europe eats.
That figures is way off.
According to the Israeli government, Israel exported $800 million dollars worth of fruit vegetables and flowers worldwide in 1996. Since then, I suspect the figure has declined, because of the water shortages in Israel.
Europe imports around $7 billion per year, and that doesn't count the massive fruit production in Europe itself.
The I sraelis are forced into a war they dont want,
A large proportion of the Israeli establishment wants the land occupied in 1967 more than they want peace.
Apparently the large Israeli lobby pucnhes above it's weight
According to Fortune magazine, AIPAC, the main Jewish lobbying orginisation, is the fourth most powerfull lobbying group, after the NRA, AARP, and National Association of Independent Businesses.
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Originally posted by Dago
Jewish lobby. Sad but true it has a larger amount of sway than it should. The fact that most Congressmen are without integrity and can easily be bought/controlled in one manner or another is hardly unknown.
It's a long sad story that these pathetic excuses have done so much damage to our country and will go unpunished. Not only unpunished, they continue to vote themselves raises and huge pensions and benefits. Greedy scum sucking lowlifes.
So, Jewish lobby buys them, we support Israel. Israel shxts on us, is never forced to seek peace with the Palestinians. We give Israel more money.
Frustrating.
dago
Careful. Any deviation from towing the Israeli line, will brand you an anti-Semite. While the Israelis will be pushed into the Med w/o US money, they often defy us and world law. Didn't we capture an Israeli spy in the 90's and let him off scot-free?
They are in a tough situation, but what would you do?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes ironically a lot of fundementalist christians have become very pro israel.
Not ironic at al: ever heard of the Holy Land?
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Originally posted by slimm50
Not ironic at al: ever heard of the Holy Land?
Oh yes. But lets not forget the very common Jews = Christ Killers stance held by fundementalist christians for a very long time...
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Nashwan , re; Arab motto.
On this I can not give ground for I know it to be true.It is what almost every muslim child is taught.IT is not only hamas it is the arab culture.It is even written in arab religious places here in america.It has been repeated in almost every arab country by the leaders of that country,even the saudis have enbraced it.This is fact and can be found in so many places I am not even going to link.The plo leadership can say anything they want.Truth is no arab country embraces Israels right to exist, not even egypt.
Israel,land of milk and honey in the midst of desert.US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT.[I think that is title or close to it,also there are others] What it said, thats all I know never been there.
Occupied? Dont ya just love it. It wasnt occupied it was captured in a war the arabs started, a war that was meant to totally wipe out a people from the face of the planet.man woman and child.International law states any land captured in a war belongs to those that captured it, period end of story.