Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on July 11, 2004, 07:33:02 PM

Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Urchin on July 11, 2004, 07:33:02 PM
La-7 #1
P-51D #2
N1K2 #3
Spit IX #4
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Sikboy on July 11, 2004, 07:36:50 PM
The Fuel burn mod was supposed to change what planes people flew?

I had no idea.

-Sik
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Urchin on July 11, 2004, 07:39:49 PM
That is what everyone was saying before the fact.  

I think I can state pretty confidently that the Spit/La-7/Niki/P51 will never be unseated as far as the top 4 planes.  Unless they add the Ki-84, and even then it'll only add #5 to the list.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: mars01 on July 11, 2004, 08:09:09 PM
The fuel burn didn't change so that other planes would be flown it was changed so that people would be forced to use the fuel management and to help the fuel pork problem.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: killnu on July 11, 2004, 08:18:42 PM
i havent changed anyway ive fly due to fuel burn.  as far as fuel goes, ive noticed no change from 1 to 2.  so, i guess they failed?
~S~ ive actually nvr looked at the e6b or whatever its called at all.  no need to, i fly same anyways.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Halo on July 11, 2004, 08:29:44 PM
The list might change eventually, e.g., gotta pay more attention now to land 109s, FWs, Spits and La's since they don't fly so long.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Urchin on July 11, 2004, 08:38:38 PM
Might see the number of 109s and 190s drop, the number of spits and la7s never will, unless it is to raise the number of niks/p51s.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Overlag on July 11, 2004, 08:59:43 PM
fuel burn rate has always been x2

if anything planes seem to have MORE range now
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Halo on July 11, 2004, 09:15:30 PM
Favs are favs whether short-range or long-range.  Always will be able to enjoy short-range fighters like La's and Spits unless trying to use them for long-range missions that include returning to base and landing kills.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Citabria on July 11, 2004, 09:18:51 PM
i love using engine management now with the e6b great fuel economy with the right throttle and rpm settings very cool.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Karnak on July 11, 2004, 09:19:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Might see the number of 109s and 190s drop, the number of spits and la7s never will, unless it is to raise the number of niks/p51s.


I call bull on this.  The Spit IX had been #1 for years, nowit is instantly #4?  That seems like the Spit IX has dropped to me.  Heck, the N1K2 had been steadily declining in usage for years and now it is suddenly above the Spit IX?  I'll bet that is due to the N1K2's longer legs.


I am seeing a lot more Mossie sorties.  Fuel burn has had an effect, just not so much on the top four.

I still hate La-7s.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: simshell on July 11, 2004, 10:12:48 PM
the spits and la7s use has gone down alot with the new fuel model

maybe you guys should get out of your caves
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: killnu on July 11, 2004, 10:24:46 PM
i havent used that e6b crap yet, whats the point?
and simshell, what drugs are you on?  i want some, cuz they still  are still the most prevalent planes that i see.
~S~
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Fauxbra on July 11, 2004, 10:37:56 PM
I little reduction in RPM will dramatically extend the range of the planes...i do this all the time when RTB or when heading to a target. If you do it right fuel is never a problem...i will get shot down or run out pf ammo long before i run out of fuel
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Polaris on July 11, 2004, 10:51:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I am seeing a lot more Mossie sorties.  Fuel burn has had an effect, just not so much on the top four.

I still hate La-7s.


Amen brother!  Despise LA-7's and have always loved the Mossie.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: DrDea on July 12, 2004, 01:15:17 AM
Heck with it.I still fight till Im out of everything.Who wants to take all that time to land.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Lazerus on July 12, 2004, 01:44:53 AM
20 minutes of typing ruined by a half bellybutton pass of the hand



BAH!
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Lazerus on July 12, 2004, 01:45:46 AM
I'll try again tomorrow before I start drinking.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Tilt on July 12, 2004, 03:24:33 AM
Not surprised that these 4 are still the favorites..........they are the best planes.............

I would be surprised if the actual numbers in relation to other rides had not gone down............

I think the FBM=2 plus the new fuel model has also bit into the 109's.......

I .........btw really like the Lavochkins...........
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Replicant on July 12, 2004, 03:51:09 AM
I've actually seen an increase in P38s and 190s.  I am seeing a more varied planeset overall.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: jodgi on July 12, 2004, 04:45:56 AM
I also like the lavochkins...

...had it not been for everyone and their mother flying them.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: simshell on July 12, 2004, 05:10:18 AM
o wait iv been fighting the rooks all week no wonder why i see so many p51s 190d-9s
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Overlag on July 12, 2004, 06:32:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
o wait iv been fighting the rooks all week no wonder why i see so many p51s 190d-9s


its always been the same.........
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Sikboy on July 12, 2004, 09:02:01 AM
I would be sad if gameplay changes were instituted to pry me out of my favorite plane.

I have a silly hangup about wanting to land my planes, and I fly a short legged plane. So the new fuelburn, and E6B seem to give me a bit more time on station, so long as I can reduce throttle/RPMs on the way to and from the fight. It doesn't take a lot of time to memorize the Max Cruise settings for you favorite plane, so I'm pretty much running at Max Cruise, or MIL the whole time, unless I cut it too close on the way back to base.

It's changed my gameplay, and given me something to do on climbout/RTB, so I'm a big fan of the change. I've heard some folks complain about having to take "too much gas" which amuses me, since I've never found much use in taking less than 100% fuel in the Yaks lol. Something of a Champaign problem you see.

-Sik
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: HUN on July 12, 2004, 10:22:21 AM
Where do you go to get aircraft usage stats like this?
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: DoctorYO on July 12, 2004, 10:31:40 AM
All I see is LA7's (dweeb sevens)

Nothing has changed..  Yeah you have your token p38 suicide jabo..  But all in all the arena is still LA7's.



nuff said..



DoctorYO


PS : really dont feel guilty flying the g10 anymore with all the dweeb sevens about..  Perk the g10... and the La7....the P51d and the Dora.. 20 perks each..  Im content with a d11 or 109F4... stop giving the dweebs a crutch....
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Widewing on July 12, 2004, 10:39:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
fuel burn rate has always been x2

if anything planes seem to have MORE range now


I believe that the burn rate in AH1 was 1.5 rather than 2.0.

Fuel burn models have been changed on every aircraft too. I have not flown anything that has greater range than its AH1 version.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: slimm50 on July 12, 2004, 10:39:24 AM
LOL...what fuel burn problem? Like someone said b4, I always got shot down b4 it ever became a problem. I anticipate when I eventually return to AH the same will continue to be true for me.
:D
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: FT_Animal on July 12, 2004, 12:08:58 PM
I"m not sure how to word this... but,...

Fuel Consumption.

Fuel was one of the biggest problems of the war. Fuel should be one of the biggest problems in a sim.

What ever is correct to RL is what belongs there.

After 10+ years I'm still amazed that subjects like fuel have carried on from sim to sim with the exact same conversation now as ten years ago.

I am going to ass-ume that HTC is trying to model correct RL fuel data.  With that said I'm going to have to follow this statement with the same one I did 10 years ago.

People want a Realistic sim, yet the more realistic it gets the more they bellow for a realistic sim with archade settings. Unrealistic fuel loads and burning, unlimted ammo and consumption. A Realistic FM that flys by wire or rail, and on and on. Yet, in the same breath they scream for realism.

Part of flying a realistic sim is dealing with realistic circumstances. The same realistic problems the real pilots had, this is what some call immersion into history, not a quarter slot archade machine.

If the fuel load and fuel consumtion are not correct to RL then they need to be. If they are then players need to adapt.

Keys words, overcome, and adapt.

Anim
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Karnak on July 12, 2004, 01:01:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I have not flown anything that has greater range than its AH1 version.

Sure you have Widewing.  The Mossie in AH1 had less range than the Spitfire Mk IX and in AH2 has more range on internal tanks than any other fighter. That is distinctly more.

IIRC,
AH1 Mossie:
~45 minutes on internal at MIL power.

AH2 Mossie:
~75 minutes on internal at MIL power.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Karnak on July 12, 2004, 01:01:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I have not flown anything that has greater range than its AH1 version.

Sure you have Widewing.  The Mossie in AH1 had less range than the Spitfire Mk IX and in AH2 has more range on internal tanks than any other fighter. That is distinctly more.

IIRC,
AH1 Mossie:
~45 minutes on internal at MIL power.

AH2 Mossie:
~75 minutes on internal at MIL power.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Edbert on July 12, 2004, 02:24:21 PM
If you are still seeing hordes of spits ans La7s, chances are that you are spending your time over an enemy airbase. You see very few of them (but there are some on one-way trips) travelling accross multiple sectors anymore. Of course there are places on the maps where they have enought fuel for a trip to an enemy base,  10-15 minutes of fighting, then RTB. I see a DEFINITE decrease in offensive use of both the Spit and the La.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Replicant on July 12, 2004, 02:59:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert MOL
I see a DEFINITE decrease in offensive use of both the Spit and the La.


Very good point!  Come to think of it I've seen few offensive La7s in AH2.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Mister Fork on July 12, 2004, 03:15:34 PM
I think you're all forgetting where this fuel modifier will be most prevelant: TOUR OF DUTY.  

MA furball dweebs will still use the NIK2's and La-7's for close base defence - that's not going to change.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Killjoy2 on July 12, 2004, 04:02:40 PM
Just saying these planes are the top 4 does not tell the story.

How many LA7's are flown as a percentage of the total?

I suggest that the percentage has dropped on the top 4.  I would have to be compared with AH1 percentages too.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Fruda on July 12, 2004, 06:36:36 PM
FYI guys, this fuel model is quite realistic. Spits and 109's were known to have little range, only staying in the air for around 30 minutes.

And with my P-51D and KI-61, I get at least an hour's worth of fuel after I've climbed to about 15,000 feet. This is with drop tanks, though.

And I love not seeing so many LA7's and Spit IX's in the air these days. It's refreshing to see 109's and 190's, along with some 47's. I even see plenty of KI-61's at high altitude.

And, yeah, I like the E6B function. Now when I'm flying over an airfield before a goon arrives, I set my plane's power to cruise, and I get a lot of extra flight time. The cheese seems to be leaving :D .
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Hyrax81st on July 12, 2004, 06:54:14 PM
<--- Still fly La7 and Spit 5 for short-legs base defense. Fly P51. P38 and Spit IX (with drop tank) for longer legs. It sure would be nice if the 205 had a drop tank.

I love the E6B and use it religiously for maximum "on station" time.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: B17Skull12 on July 12, 2004, 07:11:24 PM
lets perk everything except these planes.


RAf
spit1
hurr1
boston

Luftwaffe
109E4
110C4
Ju88
ju87

USAAF
P40B
F4F
A20

Japan
A6m2
B5n2
D3a

that would forsure get rid of all ubber plane:rolleyes:


I support Kweassa's perk agenda!!!!!!!
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Overlag on July 12, 2004, 07:14:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I have not flown anything that has greater range than its AH1 version.

My regards,

Widewing


mossie and typh have increased range so im told

all planes have increased range at high alt im pritty sure of. Since the flight/fuel model takes into account of alt now.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Kev367th on July 13, 2004, 12:46:16 PM
Actully Typh with its either ord or drop tank option but not both is a real pain now especially as it has mysteriously lost a tank somewhere .

Only one prob with your comment FT_Animal, where in the war did planes suffer from 2x fuel burns? Remember HT is not trying to model "real life" or you wouldn't see hoards of Me163's upping to defend the HQ.

I still have no idea what the perk price is based on, numbers produced or when it was available. Because either way you take it, it still leaves some glaringly omitted perk candidates.
If its date introduced then all late war planes should be perked, but this will never happen. HT can't afford to perk things like P51s even moderately without a lot of whining. Same goes for the Spit 9.
If its by numbers made then I'm sure the LA7 falls into the same problem area as the P51.

Bottom line it's a game, governed by the whims of the powers that be.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Ohio330 on July 13, 2004, 01:30:56 PM
heh, It'll be awhile before I worry bout fuel burn..  i don't last long
enough to blow 25% fuel :)
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Ohio330 on July 13, 2004, 01:31:14 PM
heh, It'll be awhile before I worry bout fuel burn..  i don't last long
enough to blow 25% fuel :)
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Karnak on July 13, 2004, 02:53:11 PM
Kev367th,

The perk system is based on an aircraft's potency in the MA and it's usage in the MA.  It seems, based on the Ta152H-1, that cases of extreme historical rarity can also be a reason to perk an aircraft.

Rare, but less potent aircraft, such as the C.205 (260 built) and N1K2-J (410 built) are left unperked.


Using introduction dates as a basis of perking units ends up with nonsensical things like free Spitfire Mk IXs (July, 1942) and perked A6M5bs (March, 1944).
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: g00b on July 13, 2004, 05:35:45 PM
I used to fly the LA7 almost exclusively for CAP. I now only take it for base defence or CAP only to one sector away. Even then I have to be in the thick of it to use all my ammo before my gas runs out. I now fly the F4U-C and D for longer range CAP. The F4U's have really been given teeth with the new FM.

I definately see less LAs ranging far from base.

g00b
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: Polaris on July 13, 2004, 06:34:02 PM
I fly the Yak-9 for base defense almost exclusively now.  If I feel the need to spray and pray, I'll grab an FM-2.
Title: wow, that fuel mod sure has had a drastic effect on the MA
Post by: beet1e on July 14, 2004, 03:30:07 AM
I've all but stopped playing because of the small maps having become permanent. I never noticed anything different about fuel consumption - flying F4U, various 109s and P47 mainly.

What's this E6B business - a new feature?