Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: 63tb on July 12, 2004, 02:36:05 PM
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Folks,
I am trying to figure out how to use the bombsite correctly, but I seem to be doing something wrong.
First, when you're suppose to pick a point on the ground with the cross-hair and hold the "Y" key, but I'm having trouble getting the cross-hair to stay on the point. When I move my joystick to compensate for movement, I can't keep the cross-hair on the point. Is there a trick to this?
Are you suppose to click on the map before or after hitting "U" once you've finished with the cross-hair setting?
Thanks
63tb
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Search "New bombing explained" by Kweeasa (I bet I butchered his name!!). The gold standard for bomb site calibration. I didn't know how to get the URL or I would have.
Peace
Pillur
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One important factor, whether you are level bombing at 10k or 20k (doesn't matter). You must zoom all the way in when looking through the bombers sight to calibrate on whatever object you are trying to remain steady on. The Zoom keys when in the scope are the same when you are zoomed looking through your gunner sight in a fighter - i.e. "[" and "]" keys. This makes for the most accurate calibration possible (assuming you are level and constant speed with bomb bay doors already opened in bomber).
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I think this is the post you need to read http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57667&highlight=New+bombing+explained
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Originally posted by 63tb
Are you suppose to click on the map before or after hitting "U" once you've finished with the cross-hair setting?
Do this before you mark a point. Click 'U', then click on the map. You can click 'u' again if you want, the target alt will stay as is. Marking the target alt can be done long before you approach the target to minimize workload over target.
I can't keep the cross-hair on the point. Is there a trick to this?
Practice. Hit U and push the crosshairs far forward. Practice holding 1 position steady before you hit and hold 'Y'. Choose a small target like an Ack circle to calibrate on. It will help you focus on keeping the crosshairs on 1 point. Hold this point (and the 'Y' key) for a slow 10 count and you will be very accurate; assuming you dont change speed again after you calibrate. Make sure you are at a constant speed BEFORE you calibrate.
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THANKS!
I'll give it a try.
63tb
Oh, one more question. I notice when I go to a gunner position and track the gun, the plane moves too. I thought when you went to a gunner position the plane went into auto-pilot and stayed on course. Do you have to set something manually first?
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edit... link is bad nm...
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The rudders are still effective when in a gunner position, thus maybe that's how you are turning.
A suggestion for practicing calibration, you don't actually have to drop a bomb to see how well you calibrated offline. Go offline, choose "setup", "arena setup", "environment", "arena settings" and select "flightmodeflags". Press Change and then turn on the "divebomb sight". That is the little green + sign you see on the ground and it works like a constant computing bomb-impact point. Then, fly your bomber, and calibrate. If you are doing it correctly then the green + and the + from your bombsight crosshairs should line up after you've calibrated. You can practice over and over this way, just seeing how close the two match up, until you get the hang of it. This way, you can calibrate a dozen times in a row and in a single evening probably have the hang of it.
One other tip, you can use the wind to improve your climb-rate (so you need not wait a long time to climb to a practice altitude). Climb in your aircraft, and take-off, level out and get to about 200mph. Then, open up the settings, look for the "Wind" (again under arena settings) and set the "vertical" wind component to max (127)... that puts a 127mph updraft under you and zips you right up to altitiude. Then, press "no Wind" to turn it off so you can get to speed and practice.
A couple of caveats, the green + will show the impact point so undulating terrain at a different altitude than where you calibrated (selected your target) will not match up. Easiest way to ensure it matches is to select something at sea-level along a shoreline and then calibrate near shore. Secondly, you can't use your normal "level auto-pilot" if you are using the wind trick, you need to use "Auto-level" (SHIFT-X) as that will not try and maintain constant altitiude. normal autopilot will try and dive to compensate for the updraft.
Hope that helps.
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ok found it.
Bombing 101 (http://www.geocities.com/luftwaffe_1177/bomber_manual.pdf)
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Once again, THANKS!
63tb
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Originally posted by Soda
Hope that helps.
Man....
GREAT tips, Soda.... thanks very much !
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Soda,
Thanks on the tip about the rudder. I think I know what I'm doing now. I have a Logitech stick where you move the rudder by twisting the stick. I must be accidentally twisting as I track the guns. Is there a way to prevent this or do I just have to be careful?
63tb
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just be carefull
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You're welcome guys.
I wouldn't change your rudder settings, they are useful at times the way they are. You could increase your deadband to take out any accidental movement but that would decrease the sensitivity to small inputs you might want. just be aware of when you are doing it. Rudder control is also very useful in ground vehicles, another reason not to dampen it out. Some bombers can also use the rudder to induce a turn and thus allow them to depress their guns against lower targets.
There are a bunch of other little tips to consider:
- your bombdoor cost you about 10mph open so don't calibrate with them closed and then leave them open for a long time before you drop, that will throw off your bombs. Instead, calibrate with them open OR better yet, only snap the doors open the second before you drop and then close again. The brief instant they are open (up to a couple of seconds) doesn't cost you enough speed to worry about.
- you only have to calibrate/bomb at the same speed, it doesn't have to be TOP speed. you can use the E6B to check your speed when you calibrate and when you drop (in AH1 you had to "guesstimate") so you know you are on speed.
- the Wind layer offers a whole bunch of other challenges but I haven't seen it turned on in AH2 yet. I tend to always try and bomb below it so it isn't an issue (usually 16K and up is the wind layer).
- if you are trying to get a fix on your target outside your bombsight (ie, line up a bit), use the nose gun and zoom. that can help you adjust your bombing line a bit while still a ways out.
I'm sure I have a dozen or more other tips/tricks. Bombing is not really all that daunting once you get the hang of it. There are lots of guys who can pick off ack from 20K with 100lb'rs.
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How do you manage to line up on an approach to be able to hit ack? I'm lucky if I end up over a hanger, let alone ack or fuel!
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what I do on my bomb run is once I'm in the gunsight you can "look up" ie, hit the 5 key on the numpad then pgup to raise your view. I line up the top of the gunsight with more less the area of my target I want to hit. Once over target with a calibrated site you can use stick inputs to make fine course corrections to hit what you need to hit, but you have to keep an eye on your speed, your current alt needs to equal your target alt for the bomb to fall true and manuvering on your part can upset this.
If your alt is increasing it means your plane is accelerating and your bombs will fall long, decrease means you're losing speed and bombs will fall short. A good accurate calibration coupled with maintaining alt is really all it takes to hit what your aming for. Asuming wind isn't a factor, etc.
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tce2506 -
Hanger! I'm happy if the bombs hit the ground! :)
Also, when in the bombsite, do rudder inputs work? I just wanted to know if I have to be careful I don't twist the stick like when I use the guns.
63tb
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I don't recall off hand, I really don't bomb too much, but I'm gonna venture a guess and say no, the X axis on the joystick controls movement left and right when in the bombsight.
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Great tips guys, Thanks for all the help! Now if I could just find the button for the GPS smart bomb bombsite!!
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tce,
It's all just in practice and not rushing yourself. Take off away from the target area, climb and speed up, then turn in and calibrate... that way all you have to do over the target is man the guns (maybe) and release the bombs. I generally try and make my run from 1 sector away, dashing in at speed already and giving the defenders the least time to get up to respond. If you turn in while still climbing then you are slow and rushed, defenders have an easier time taking you out.
There are lots of guys who bomb as if they had GPS... generally it isn't required though. Close is often good enough.
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The original picture material of my post has long since gone and I must apologize for that. However, the text contained there should prove of some use.
Also, here is a general primer of what I've learned about bombing these past years:
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1. Planning the Flight Path
The most important thing about bombing is planning your path. We're talking about bombing stuff the right way, making significant results, and returning home intact here - not the dweebery of deck run buffs or divebombing level buffs on CV runs.
While enemy presence is always to be expected, it is safe to say a bomb run which has enemy fighters within 5 mile radius, when you are about to bomb something, is basically a failed one.
Thus, the most important part of bombing comes before even taking off. Studying the radar, analyzing the strategic/tactical condition of the target area, and determining a safe flight path and altitude for the job.
And when all of that fails and you still get enemy fighters attacking you, is where gunners and defensive fire comes in - it a last resort at best.
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2. Selecting Altitude and Approach
Generally, in a "hot spot" where lot of enemy activity is expected, you would need to consider an altitude of somewhere between 15~25k.
Also, the flight path would have to avoid as much enemy dar contact as possible(consult your clipboard map for the radar range circles), and would need to stay out of "enemy trail" - the air path where enemy fighters are expected to travel.
You would need altitude, and approach from a direction which the enemy activity would be slim.
In more benevolent situations anything between 8k~15k is useful. Particularly the "golden altitude" for knocking CVs is between 10 and 12k. Anything higher than that, takes much too long for the released bombs to reach ground level and detonate - which means the CV can move out of the way with ease.
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3. Marking Process
When it comes to actual bombing, the single most important factor in bombing, is stabilizing your speed. The bomb sight we have is a simplified version of actual WW2 sight, but the basic concepts are simular.
The "marking process" of pressing the "Y" key down, is actually measuring your speed of travel. It determines when a bomb must be released in advance, to hit a target at ground. The information gathered during the marking process will be computed, and when calibration process is over it sets the sights.
Thus, it is absolutely important, that your speed does not change during the course of travel since you've calibrated - meaning: if you've calibrated your sights while your bomber was travelling at 220mph, if the speed increases or decreases from that initial point where it was calibrated, it will miss. This tendency is particularly amplified the higher you fly. A small miscalculation would not much effect a bomb drop at 10k, but that same mistake can cause the bombs to miss the target by more than 1000yards at 25k.
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(continued)
4. Bombrun
This is why a "bombrun" process is needed. A typical bombrun starts around 8~10 miles before the bomber flies over the target. When your bomber goes into bombrun, you open your bomb bay doors, go to bombardiers position and start the "marking" process.
Since AH2 the nifty E6B function is available, so you can measure your current speed accurately. Watch your speed in the E6B, and when it no longer changes it means you are ready to start calibrating. This is why such a bombrun is required - a certain amount of time is required for the bombers to stabilize speed.
While entering a bombrun it is customary to reduce throttle and travel at a slower speed, because when the bomber is traveling near its top speed, if it loses its speed in the course of maneuvering it will take a lot of time before it recovers.
Stabilizing the speed is much easier when the bomber is travelling at a lower speed, and it is easier to shorten the process of waiting out until the speed stabilizies.
For example, instead of lowering throttle and waiting for it to drop down slowly and naturally, you can set the throttle to idle momentarily, so the speed drops down quickly to around 210~220mph. And then, increase throttle to about 60% of its max rate and "tweak" your speed from there.
If the speed is increasing pull back on the throttle a little bit. If it is falling advance the throttle a little bit. Adjust it bit by bit until the speed remains absolutely constant, with the rate of change less than 1mph per minute. By doing this "tweaking" you can cut down about half of the time required for the speed to stabilize, to start calibration.
A well calibrated sight, in my personal standards, is a sight which allows the bombs to land within 10 yards margin of error(a 5 yard radius circle around the target)
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5. Salvo and Delay
The main strength of large bombers, is that it can spread its bombs out in a large area to maximize the damage. The amount of spread is determined by salvos and delay, which can be set by the dot commands ".salvo xxx" and ".delay xxx"(xxx being the salvo number and delay time respectively).
While it is still possible for people to use multiple releases of bombs with small salvos(for example, dropping the 14x 1000lbs bombs on the Lancaster in a sequence of 4, 4, 4, 2 bombs individually) there are inherent dangers in such bomb drops.
These kind of drops are usually aimed at killing multiple targets at a airbase, which is distanced apart. Because the bombers get lighter everytime bombs are released, its speed during the bomb run increases during the short interval of each bomb drops. The speed can change upto some 3~5 miles during each drop, and this means the accuracy drops each time the bombs are released in a single pass.
This may not be so pronounced when bombing from under 10k, but a small error amplifies to a terrific miss as the bombing altitude gets higher.
Thus, a sensible approach when targets are spaced, is releasing the bombs in "line" which covers the multiple targets. If the targets are spaced too far apart, the first group of targets will be bombed in the initial pass, and the second group will be bombed in during the turn-around and returning pass(which after that you go home).
When bombing a target in the size of the town, a delay setting of 0.6 will cover its full length. Larger targets such as industrial facilities may take 0.7~0.9 delay setting.
When bombing a CV, when the difference between your approach angle and the bearing the CV is travelling is more 45~60 degrees, a delay of 0.4~0.5 is optimum. If the differences are smaller 0.6 is a good setting.
The delay setting may also vary according to what kind of load you are carrying in what bomber. For instance, if you are using a B-26 formation to bomb CVs, the 4x1000lbs settings require absolute precision, which is highly unlikely to happen, esepcially when the CV is in evasive motion.
Thus, I usually carry smaller bombs in larger numbers. But since these bombs are weaker, if the delay setting is too high the disperesed hits may not reach the required damage effect of 8000lbs to kill the CV. So, when using the B-26s for such tasks my delay setting is shorter.
On the contrary, the Lancaster is a more massive, slower, and vulnerable platform, but it carries an impressive 14x1000lbs pounds payload, which in a formation of three bombers, can cover the target area with 42 thousand pounds of pure destruction. So the Lancasters can afford a longer delay setting which covers a wider area - and even small number of hits will be potentially lethal enough to sink the CV.
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6. Final Approach and Release
When the sights are calibrated and ready, you are ready drop. You are free to adjust the bomber's course in the bombardier's position with your stick, when the calibration process is finished and "green".
Some people make the mistake of going back to the pilots seat, or jumping to external view to adjust course - but that is really unnecessary, not to mention that it might throw off your calibration.
When the bombsight is ready and "green", you can move the joystick right of left to adjust course. This simulates "bomber has control" phase. The course adjustments done in the bombardier's position maintain the altitude, and moves the heading of the plane at a slow and steady rate so the speed does not change at all. (even if it changes, it drops down about 1~2 mph, which is quickly recovered after the adjustment - this is why we have throttled the plane down during a bombrun).
When you drop, it is generally good practice to drop a bit short of the target, than exactly on the target itself.
Since it is highly likely that you are dropping large salvos of bombs, even if the inital bombs drop a little bit short the rest of the bombs landing will destroy the target. But if there was a small error while calibrating, and when you miss even a little bit long, then the whole salvo will miss entirely. Better safe than sorry.
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7. Return Flight
Remember - the bomber's best strength is in its altitude. Some people make the mistake of diving the bombers after the bombrun, thinking the faster one gets out of the area the better.
But no matter how fast a bomber dives it will be caught by fighters. Whereas if a bomber stays high, the number of fighters he may face is usually low and isolated - it is a very rare thing to meet organized group of interceptors at high altitudes(unless a really dedicated squadron is at work).
So after bombing, turn around, close doors, push to max throttle - but don't lose your altitude. Stay high. If you don't have enough fuel to maintain full throttle, then it is a better choice to go down to slower cruise settings, rather than diving low, hoping to fly faster.
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Take heed to above 7 steps of bombing, and you'll become a hot-shot buffer in notime - the good breed of true buffers, not the stinkin' divebombing Lanc dweebs.
ps) A little bonus:
When bombing a CV, there are two methods to do so. One is the 'straight' method, and the other is the 'estimated ' method.
In 'straight' method, you first spot a CV, then maneuver your bombers so that it follows the exact course the CV is travelling. It doesn't matter if the bomber is coming from 12oc or 6oc position of the CV, as long as it is straightly aligned.
During the marking process, move the marker over the CV itself, and use the CV for reference point during marking.
And then, when the CV is in the crosshairs - drop your bombs.
Needless to say, this method sucks. It is slow, unsafe, and totally useless if the CV starts evasives.
In the 'estimated' method, you calibrate as you would bomb a ground target - use some point on the water as reference. And then, you drop in front of the CV. For every 10k feet altitude you lead 1 length of the CV.
If the CV starts evasives, concentrate on the 'circle' the CV makes, and drop at a point which you estimate the CV will pass, as it circles around.
This method is much more efficient and successful than the former.
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Originally posted by 63tb
Also, when in the bombsite, do rudder inputs work? I just wanted to know if I have to be careful I don't twist the stick like when I use the guns.
No but....
While using the joystick to turn, kick in some rudder trim and you'll turn as if you were using rudder from a gun position. Be careful not to lose your drones.
To line up on your target...
While in the pilot, bombardier, or gun position, set zoom to maximum.
It's best to move to the pilots position and press F3 outside view.
Then press F8 pan view.
Press your hat switch forward to look forward and down.
Zoom in on the target area from 8-12 miles out.
Use your trim keys to adjust your heading - don't touch the joystick.
With no wind, align your bomber on your target.
Jump to a gun position or back to the pilots seat to clear the F8 view mode.
Continue with calibration or gunning.
Calibration tips:
An early initial calibration will set your target alt and give you a check for how stable you are - see earlier posts.
Once you've passed the IP but before you're in sight of the target, you can enter calibration mode and extend your crosshairs well out in front. Then so long as you don't toggle calibration mode off, you can align on the target or gun a pesky bandit. Once you've aligned your bomber, do your calibration near the first target. I try to be as stable as possible before then but my insurance is to reduce the amount of time between calibration and the drop so speed and alt have little time to drift off the calibration.
Field ack reaches 9,700 ft agl so if you fly below that you're a member of the suicide bombers group and might as well fly a jabo plane instead.
Flak starts at 10,000 ft agl and the lower you are the worse it is but it's still rare for it to hurt a bomber even in AH2, though it seems much more accruate and occasionally deadly now. On a single run recently I lost two engines to flak and that never happened before.
As you get better you will find you can plink any light target on opposite ends of a field with 500 lb bombs at salvo 2 with delay 0.30. It's very easy if you're a good navigator and have aligned properly. Turning in the middle of the run will pork it of course.
Guess that's enough for now. Have fun.