Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: TrueKill on July 12, 2004, 04:31:13 PM
-
ok whats up with the uncontrollable stalls in the CT. in all the german planes i have flown when im doin 150 or less and try to turn i go into an uncontrollable stall like in the TA in AHI and most the time i cant recover and crash. and theres no perks. i went to a base today in some JU-88s and leveled 3/4 the town and land but no perks givin. i know theres no use for perks in this setup but when we get a setup with some perked planes id like to have some perk points to use them.
-
The stall thing sounds like the wind setting might be hosed.
-
it only affects the LW rides?
I dont think its the wind, the LW rides in all of AH2 seem to have taken a hit. They are now mostly unflyable, and definatley unfightable. I really hate to whine, and I hate being a lameduck in a barrel. during Beta, the FM's of the LW were awesome, they flew and acted just as I had read about them. since AH2 going live the FM's were *perception* scraped, and now they have developed very nasty tendencies. Dont believe me though, please go out and up any of the 109's and try to keep it up in the air at 125 - 200 range during manuvers. Maybe its all of our controllers that are all out of wack at once? but almost everyone who regularly flies our birds has mentioned these things.
-
i manage to have good fights in the Ma and CT in Lw planes all the time. But i alwauys die.
-
For those of you that are unable to fly Lw aircraft in AHII, I refer you to BigMax. It appears that he does not see this problem and can still down a spit in about six turns :( ....oh wait, I forgot, I just suck at dogfighting though!!
-
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
For those of you that are unable to fly Lw aircraft in AHII, I refer you to BigMax. It appears that he does not see this problem and can still down a spit in about six turns :( ....oh wait, I forgot, I just suck at dogfighting though!!
bigmax is undoubtly one of the top ten pilots in AH. Along with Fester, Wldthing, and a few others.(shane included)
-
I havent noticed any problems with the LW rides, but I did see folks comenting on the stalls who are not regular complainers so there might something to it.
-
iv only noticed this stall crap in the CT and ONLY with LW planes i took some yaks up the otherdfay and they flew great.
-
Originally posted by Dogsta04
it only affects the LW rides?
I dont think its the wind, the LW rides in all of AH2 seem to have taken a hit. They are now mostly unflyable, and definatley unfightable. I really hate to whine, and I hate being a lameduck in a barrel. during Beta, the FM's of the LW were awesome, they flew and acted just as I had read about them. since AH2 going live the FM's were *perception* scraped, and now they have developed very nasty tendencies. Dont believe me though, please go out and up any of the 109's and try to keep it up in the air at 125 - 200 range during manuvers. Maybe its all of our controllers that are all out of wack at once? but almost everyone who regularly flies our birds has mentioned these things.
I've flown the 109G-2 with gondolas against Yaks and LA-5s. Several times I've gone round and round, lap after lap. Some could just barely turn thier Yaks inside my 109, but it didn't show for a few laps. I've only experienced one flat spin stall in AH-II in any type of ride. I think the German planes handel pretty much like they did in AH-I and are very competitive.
eskimo
-
Yeah, I've noticed g10 doesn't turn like it used to. :confused:
-
Well I have to put my .02 in here as well. I never flew the betas until the end of AHI was announced (somewhere around beta 35-I think). I have really had no problem to date that could not be easily fixed or explained. My framerates are pretty low, but I'm pretty sure that's my system-but the game is (was) still playable.
In the current CT setup I find the LW planes (only ones I tried) basically unflyable because of the uncontrolable stalls. This is not a whine or a threat to provoke response-but just reality-$15.00 a month is not that big of a deal-but this problem is so bad that I really have to consider what am I getting out of my $15.00.
I understand the patience to allow a game to get the bugs worked out-but if I'm unable to play, and unable to have fun in a game I truly enjoyed-then I really have to ask myself how much money am I willing to spend on being patient.
Yep I know that if I ultimately decide to cancel my account my $15 is not going to hurt HTC, but if they would examine how many people have been automatically booted because of older systems that can't run AHII-add to that the people that have systematically left because of playability issues-I think HTC would realize that they "might" have made a critical error on the timing of release-But hey that's just my opinion-I could be wrong :D
-
So everyone fly allied and just pork everything.:aok
-
#1 folks need to recalibrate their controls?
#2 FM changes are a fact of life in flight sims.
#3 AH1 and all the other sims used to be "high end" back when PII 233's were hot machines. Lets stop pretending this release is somehow different. Its not.
Nothing is changed. Its the normal progress in gaming, including all the yelling about how "my machine wont run it". Gaming hasnt exploded into a $$$million dollar industry because the designers stuck with wire models playing ping pong.
-
fork came in a change stall limiter up a bit today.
-
what about the perk pionts?
-
was in there with Bear yesterday
he was asking me about the stalls, told him I have not seen it
claimed it only happens in CT on all the rides
he uses combat trim, i do not
when he tried following me combat trim turned off, he said the lw plane he was in flew the best it ever had
do you other ppl with stall issues use combat trim?
-
no stall limiter on, and its not a flat spin, it's a violent stall, that is most prevelent in the F and the G-10. try a spiral climb at slow speed. hell any speed. both planes should be able to outclimb and outturn an equal energy oponet thru this manuver. as for fighting against the Yaks, the 9-T in my experience can still be beaten by a patient 109 G series.
yes i agree that FM's change over time. but this seems to have happened overnight. and is quite oposite to how they all handled during BETA.
-
not stall limiter - combat trim
do you use it or do you manual trim?
both stall limiter (whatever that is) and combat trim should be "off" - manual trim and try it
-
Originally posted by Eagler
not stall limiter - combat trim
do you use it or do you manual trim?
both stall limiter (whatever that is) and combat trim should be "off" - manual trim and try it
I dont use stall limiter but at times I do have to use combat trim. If I dont use combat trim in some planes I just cant over come the occilations (bounce)(sp?), however, combat trim with flaps is certainly a no no. Combat trim is usless with flaps down.
The dogfight I had with BigMax the other night was with a freshly downloaded game with minimum "nose bounce" and one of the bes fights I ever had. Aftaer a few hours, I can hardly land without crashing :eek: I get tired of rreinstalling AH once a week :(
-
Originally posted by Mike_2851
In the current CT setup I find the LW planes (only ones I tried) basically unflyable because of the uncontrolable stalls.
I never flew the Beta version (figured it would totally confuse me), and I haven't had that much time in AH2, due to RW events. I do note that it is much more difficult to keep airplanes in the air now, and I put that down to the new 16-point whatever-it-was measurement. This affects different planes in different ways; my old favorite P-47 is much harder to fly, but I hardly notice a difference in the 202 or the 9T. The G6 is a LOT harder to fly, it's true, but it also seems a lot more sprightly to me, especially in roll. So: I don't blame this on a program bug. I just think that some of the planes fly different now that the program for their flight models is different. My G6 flying by the end of last night was significantly better than it was at the beginning. Hey, it took me years to get comfortable with AHI, I have to expect that it will take at least a few months to master AH2.
- oldman
-
looks like crying to me, last week everything luftwaffe was fine, and there has been no update.
Many planes have not been updated as of last mention by the HTC as far as I can tell. That means some planes behave like before and others do not.
What is up with the reinstall thing? Sounds like some real computer issues. What OS is on that system curtiss?
-
windows XP
This has been an issue with me for years and past computers. It started with USB game controllers. However, it only does this with AHI and AHII. It does not do it with Target Rubaul, WarBirds and Combat Flight Sim. It is an AH issue.
-
Why only you then? If it were the game we would see it more often. It is also strange that it would be occuring on more than one computer you have owned. Do you have some strange piece of hardware you keep using? Same sound card/scsi card/joystick?
-
Eagler's right. Disable stall limiter and combat trim and you'll see a big improvement. BTW, thanks for the help yesterday Eagler
!
-
On the admin side for the record, stall limiter was disabled in the CT. I decided to turn the option on (if you had stall limit enabled in your setup, it should kick in).
During testing, I found that it's still not working right (aircraft can stall faster than a hummingbird).
I'll submit a bug report to HTC.
-
What is not working fork? Stall limiter?
-
I had a feeling it had something to do with Combat Trim. You know, its funny, almost eveyone says not to use Combat Trim, so I stopped a while back. In the course of talking to both Shane and Leviathan, I found that they both use it, so I turned it back on. I really cant tell any difference one way or the other while in combat, only when having to trim in level flight. While in a fight I dont feel any difference, but I also rarely use flaps, and if I do its only one notch, so maybe thats why.
I guess for the sake of my own curiosity I will turn it back off tonight after flying with it on for a while to see what difference I can find.
-
Yep, the stall limiter is not working as designed. Period. Maybe the way it works has changed?
I've asked HTC to look into it.
-
Ahh, I always thought it was silly anyway. Just like combat trim. To each their own.
-
P-38 fights better without combat trim.
-
Bug reports forum has been mentioning combat trim is malfunctioning on several rides. Probably including the 109's that have been having these problems in the CT. Just disable it for now, and that might/should fix the problem (??)
-
I flew the G-10 earlier today to see if I could repeat the behavior you all are reporting. Didn't happen. I flew with combat trim on and off....with flaps at one notch, and without...down to 100kts both on the deck and at altitude...nada. She flew as smooth as a baby's bottom. Deej was also there and can attest to this also.
What stick settings are you all using? Early on, I had all my sliders set to the top, AND I was having some probs with stalling...so changed all settings to default, and have not had a problem since.
One thing to note....any plane that is flying slow with high AOA is not made to be yanked and banked...slow deliberate control movements are a must, or you will depart. Also when slow, you have to be dancing on the rudder pedals in order not to depart....this is a definite change from the AH1 flight model that I have noticed in all planes.
-
I found the same thing as Duke, flew great with and without combat trim. My sliders are all at default also.
-
default sliders here too, with no issues.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
not stall limiter - combat trim
do you use it or do you manual trim?
both stall limiter (whatever that is) and combat trim should be "off" - manual trim and try it
Stall Limiter off (never used it)
Combat Trim Off ( only use it during transit flights to and from fight)
Originally posted by ergRTC
looks like crying to me, last week everything luftwaffe was fine, and there has been no update.
actualy! since the CT came up I and a few of my friends have noticed these problems, most notably the 109F, no longer the climber/turner it once was. During BETA the 109's Seemed to to have gotten quite the boost. the G-10 was able to climb turn out of nearly any knife fight. the 109 F4 was able to turn with and out climb the Spits and Yaks and LA7's (Spiral Climb manuver) now it stalls out violently at slow speeds flaps / no flaps. I will try reseting my sliders, but in the past at default settings I would get the "Do not move so rapid" messages.
Saitek X-45 USB
CH PRO USB Pedals
Win XP Pro
AMD Athalon 1.2 GHZ
512mb sdram
nVidia FX 5200 128mb
Soundblaster Live Value
is 2.5 years old, and still giving 40-75 FPS
-
I am having the same problem with the G10 and 6. After reading the posts here I went into the arena hoping to discover I had accidentally turned on the stall limiter... etc. Discovered all my slider settings were whacked and reset em to default. Jumped into the TA and eagerly took up a G10 thinking "oh please let this be it". NO luck. Still have the same violent stall where both wings will wildly drop off at low speeds.
SIGH
-
I think you guys just need to get used to the planes again, or for the first time in some cases. The g10s I was fighting with last night didnt have issues. I wish they had!
-
For now everyone (especially 109 pilots), please turn off combat trim and stall limiter. It isn't working right (or it's working right, just not 100%, or we're all wrong and no one has a clue).
I'm sure with the next patch a lot of these issues will be addressed.
In the mean time, can someone check the 190's, La5, Yaks to see if the stall limiter is working?
-
The g10s kill ratio is 2:1 vs both la5s and yak9u's. Seems like somebody can fly it.
-
I think some still fly the planes like they have AH1 chutes attached to them
the g2 turns just fine with proper loadout
-
I rarely fly any of the lw planes. Never much got the hang of that style of fighting in AHI. Which brings me to my question ...
... do you think maybe you shouldn't be stall-fighting in 109s in the first place?
I thought those planes were best kept fast, with energy up -- I was always told that ESPECIALLY the G-10 and G-6 versions were supposed to be lousy turnfighters.
The spiral-climb problem could be either a) a real bug, or b) the possibility that some people got accustomed to/learned on AHI'S old, incorrect modeling and need to re-learn.
Anyway, for shts&grns I took up a G6 offline. A plane I almost NEVER flew in AHI. Seemed to handle like a dream at low speeds. I was doing slow-speed barrel rolls, hanging on the prop, hammerheads ... even recovering from induced stalls -- which I found rather difficult to induce.
But I'm a yanker/banker by trade. Maybe I'm more at home in that environment?
And what's this crap about stall limiter? It shouldn't be enabled in the first place in CT. And if it is, you're talking about a mostly-veteran population that wouldn't be stupid enough to use it in the first place. Right?
Combat trim another matter. It's used on/off depending on situation by even the best sticks.
And finally ... this "perception" of a problem is not limited to LW planes, so there's no vast conspiracy. The other night at least one person was beatching constantly about stalls in the Yak.
FWIW I've had absolutely no problem in that regard with the 9T.
Personally, I just think it's a matter of a few folks getting used to a new flight model that's supposed to better reflect reality.
Splash1
-
Originally posted by Dennis
I rarely fly any of the lw planes. Never much got the hang of that style of fighting in AHI. Which brings me to my question ...
... do you think maybe you shouldn't be stall-fighting in 109s in the first place?
I thought those planes were best kept fast, with energy up -- I was always told that ESPECIALLY the G-10 and G-6 versions were supposed to be lousy turnfighters.
The spiral-climb problem could be either a) a real bug, or b) the possibility that some people got accustomed to/learned on AHI'S old, incorrect modeling and need to re-learn.
Anyway, for shts&grns I took up a G6 offline. A plane I almost NEVER flew in AHI. Seemed to handle like a dream at low speeds. I was doing slow-speed barrel rolls, hanging on the prop, hammerheads ... even recovering from induced stalls -- which I found rather difficult to induce.
But I'm a yanker/banker by trade. Maybe I'm more at home in that environment?
And what's this crap about stall limiter? It shouldn't be enabled in the first place in CT. And if it is, you're talking about a mostly-veteran population that wouldn't be stupid enough to use it in the first place. Right?
Combat trim another matter. It's used on/off depending on situation by even the best sticks.
And finally ... this "perception" of a problem is not limited to LW planes, so there's no vast conspiracy. The other night at least one person was beatching constantly about stalls in the Yak.
FWIW I've had absolutely no problem in that regard with the 9T.
Personally, I just think it's a matter of a few folks getting used to a new flight model that's supposed to better reflect reality.
Splash1
I think you have hit the nail on the head!!! You owe me a 109G-2 radiator now pay up!
-
I know conventional wisdom says that you shouldnt stallfight the G-10, but I find that it turns quite well. It wont turn inside a Spit, but it can turn surprizingly well. I find that most planes that arent supposed to turn well can turn well enough to get the decisive advantage on the majority of folks who arent expecting it (NOBODY expects the Spanish Inqusition!!). I stallfight every plane in the inventory (even buffs) and I find they all have more harsh stall behavior than AHI, but it does not seem worse in any one particular plane.
This "turning in a plane that is not supposed to turn well" tactic only works against people that dont take risks, and it virtually never works against someone really on their game like Bug, Slash, Duke, Arlo, or most of JG54. They see it coming, and will take a risk, while most dont and get whacked.
-
(NOBODY expects the Spanish Inqusition!!)
Hehe :)
-
I agree with splash, I am definitely a yanker and banker and will stall fight in plane anytime. Seldom flew 109's in Ah1 and mostly 109f4's if i did. Flew both the g10 and the g2 in CT last night absolutely loved em - had a ball stall fighting yaks. Found that with a little patience, the 109's were very competitive if not superior to the yak. Never found 109's to be so forgiving but maybe I have changed more than the flight model ?
Phantom4
-
Originally posted by Phantom4-Mag33
I agree with splash, I am definitely a yanker and banker and will stall fight in plane anytime. Seldom flew 109's in Ah1 and mostly 109f4's if i did. Flew both the g10 and the g2 in CT last night absolutely loved em - had a ball stall fighting yaks. Found that with a little patience, the 109's were very competitive if not superior to the yak. Never found 109's to be so forgiving but maybe I have changed more than the flight model ?
Phantom4
A question for all you wanky yanky dudes. do you use peds?
-
Originally posted by storch
A question for all you wanky yanky dudes. do you use peds?
Yes.
Why?
Splash1
-
Yup, CH Pro USB, but I use them more for aiming and landing than turning.
-
Originally posted by storch
A question for all you wanky yanky dudes. do you use peds?
Yes...CH PRO USB's.
If your gonna stall fight (well at least for me) pedals are a must have.
-
Originally posted by Dennis
Yes.
Why?
Splash1
Me four, just taking a poll. but my kid flying with a mouse waxed me earlier and a few of us oldtimers I've been told. :/
-
A question for all you wanky yanky dudes. do you use peds?
No
-
Originally posted by Grits
Yup, CH Pro USB, but I use them more for aiming and landing than turning.
me too, exactly.
eskimo
-
Don't fly the LW planes much so I haven't got much to compare to, but even with that lack of experience I still found the G10 very flyable and clearly in the postion of the best plane(by far) in this setup.
Not that the Yak9u is too shabby mind you :)
Vote Bug:aok
-
Originally posted by storch
A question for all you wanky yanky dudes. do you use peds?
don't know if I'm a "wanky yanky dude" but I use pedals for aiming, turning, speed control, compensate for engine/prop torque and jinking
as aiming goes, they seem much more sensitive in AH2 than Ah1 ever was
-
I won a set of usb ch pedals at the last con for winning the 2 vs 2 duals but have never gotten to like them. Since my gaming computer is also 'the' computer in the apartment, and it happens to be in the living room, I think my wife 'put' them under the bed for a particular reason that I just don t want to comprehend.
I use twisty stick, and have to say, I am addicted to it. I like sitting crosslegged while I play. Maybe thats more information than you all wanted.
-
i have been noticing this same concern with any of the 109's.i noticed that if i keep my speed at 200 or more,there is very little unstability.now,i will try taking combat trim off,like a few of you have mentioned, and see if that makes any difference.out of all the 109's,the g2 seems to be the best turning plane,even though i have pretty good results with the g6 also.:aok
-
Originally posted by Eagler
don't know if I'm a "wanky yanky dude" but I use pedals for aiming, turning, speed control, compensate for engine/prop torque and jinking
as aiming goes, they seem much more sensitive in AH2 than Ah1 ever was
Sir, You are the undisputed KING of Yany Banky Wanky hanky panky. Thank you for your response and for the hundred odd MORE times you will kill me this week.
-
Yo Lurch, I used to live in Beaufort a long time ago, my sister was born there.
-
Originally posted by Grits
Yo Lurch, I used to live in Beaufort a long time ago, my sister was born there.
Got pics????:eek: :D
-
Originally posted by lurch1
i have been noticing this same concern with any of the 109's.i noticed that if i keep my speed at 200 or more,there is very little unstability.now,i will try taking combat trim off,like a few of you have mentioned, and see if that makes any difference.out of all the 109's,the g2 seems to be the best turning plane,even though i have pretty good results with the g6 also.:aok
The use of the combat trim doesn't make mine sqiurrilly any longer. I flew a lil bit yesterday on my kid's account while I was setting up his stick mapping and views. He has elected to play with limiter on and combat trim and they all flew fine.
Remember if you turn off combat trim then u must manually trim, doing that from the keyboard can be a chore.
-
What's all the ooh-ing and ahh-ing for the G-2, why not fly the F-4?
:P
-
Originally posted by Krusty
What's all the ooh-ing and ahh-ing for the G-2, why not fly the F-4?
:P
Because the F-4 isn't in this setup.
:P
Splash1
-
ROFLMAO... oh, yeah, that would explain it!!
-
Dunno if anyone else had the same experience, but the last patch seemed to have completely restored the G10 to the way it used to fly for me! :)