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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 03:40:31 AM

Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 03:40:31 AM
I'm looking for a new camera in the $500.00 price range.  Anyone have a recommendation?  Anyone have an opinion about the Olympus Camedia C-765 Ultra Zoom?

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 13, 2004, 03:44:51 AM
What kind of photography are you planning to do?
What's your total budget?
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 04:01:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
What kind of photography are you planning to do?
What's your total budget?


I'm a 100% hobbyist.  I currently have an old Kodak DC 200.  I would like to take some 30-60 second video clips; I would like to explore the 10x zoom offered by digital cameras .  Most of the images will be people or animals at 6-20 feet.

My #1 concern (after video/zoom) is image quality.  I don't need large images 14xwhatever.  I do need "small" pixels.

If I like the camera, I imagine I would spend an additional $200 bucks on accessories.

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: CyranoAH on July 13, 2004, 04:05:45 AM
I am very happy with the image quality from Sony. Good in all lighting conditions, low noise, and very easy to use.

Daniel
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 04:37:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
I am very happy with the image quality from Sony. Good in all lighting conditions, low noise, and very easy to use.

Daniel


Which sony, Daniel?

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 13, 2004, 04:44:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly
I'm a 100% hobbyist.  I currently have an old Kodak DC 200.  I would like to take some 30-60 second video clips; I would like to explore the 10x zoom offered by digital cameras .  Most of the images will be people or animals at 6-20 feet.

My #1 concern (after video/zoom) is image quality.  I don't need large images 14xwhatever.  I do need "small" pixels.

If I like the camera, I imagine I would spend an additional $200 bucks on accessories.

curly


Here are two to choose from (The Konica Minolta to be released soon, but no price yet).:

Konica Minolta Z3 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0407/04070703dimagez3.asp)

Panasonic DMC FZ10 (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/fz10.html)

Having image stabilization gives you a big advantage when carrying a monopod or tripod is not an option.
You'll have a lot of fun with either of these (not sure on the Z3 as it hasn't been released yet).
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: CyranoAH on July 13, 2004, 04:45:30 AM
There are several in that price range. The P10 could be an option.

Daniel
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 13, 2004, 04:48:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly
Which sony, Daniel?

curly


Probably the F717 which can be had for a 'low' price now. 5x optical zoom 'only'. Image quality is very good though.
BTW never look at the digital zoom as that just degrades your image. Optical zoom only.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 06:05:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Here are two to choose from (The Konica Minolta to be released soon, but no price yet).:

Konica Minolta Z3 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0407/04070703dimagez3.asp)

Panasonic DMC FZ10 (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/fz10.html)


Wow!  Both appear to be excellent.  I really like the appearance of the sony, but the video is quick time only.  Otoh, the video is accompanied by audio.

The minolta has more extensive video, but no sound.  

Is there software available to convert quicktime to mpeg?

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 13, 2004, 06:11:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly
Wow!  Both appear to be excellent.  I really like the appearance of the sony, but the video is quick time only.  Otoh, the video is accompanied by audio.

The minolta has more extensive video, but no sound.  

Is there software available to convert quicktime to mpeg?

curly


The Minolta does have sound:

Quote
The DiMAGE Z3's movie recording function allows users to take high-resolution movies that are as beautiful as TV programs or footage taken with a video camera. In addition to the VGA-size (640 x 480 Standard) mode that captures movies at 30 frames per second, Konica Minolta has added a new, high-quality-image Fine mode (640 x 480 Fine). The Silent Zoom feature employs a newly developed Silent Zoom mechanism that greatly reduces how much noise from the optical zoom is picked up while shooting movies with sound.

Movie clips
• 640 x 480 Fine (15 / 30 fps) = max (19 / 9 sec)
• 640 x 480 Standard (15 / 30 fps) = max (28 / 14 sec)
• 320 x 240 Standard (15 / 30 fps) =max (58 / 30 sec)
• All with audio
• Night capture mode available


Sorry about not being able to answer your software question though.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 06:29:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
The Minolta does have sound:


Thanks, I guess I saw the "silent" zoom and read it incorrectly.

You know the small key chain USB drives?  Some of them sport up to several gigabyte in capacity.  Is there a way to dump the image card to the USB drive w/o benefit of a nearby computer?

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: CyranoAH on July 13, 2004, 06:31:51 AM
There are plenty of video converters, some of them even freeware. You'll find no problem converting QT to any other format.

Daniel
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 06:37:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
There are plenty of video converters, some of them even freeware. You'll find no problem converting QT to any other format.

Daniel


Cool, Daniel! Thanks.

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Nashwan on July 13, 2004, 07:05:13 AM
I've got a Panasonic Fz 10, and I find it excellent.

Quote
Movie clips
• 640 x 480 Fine (15 / 30 fps) = max (19 / 9 sec)
• 640 x 480 Standard (15 / 30 fps) = max (28 / 14 sec)
• 320 x 240 Standard (15 / 30 fps) =max (58 / 30 sec)
• All with audio


The Panasonic only does 320 x 240 at 30 fps (might be lower modes as well) but there is no limit on recording time, apart from the capacity of your card. It uses quicktime, with sound, and videos take about 0.5 mb per second of shooting time.

You can't zoom during recording, though.

To be honest I've hardly used the video, but it was very handy for taking dolphins in the bay of Gibraltar.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: -ammo- on July 13, 2004, 11:02:46 AM
Curly-

I just bought a Kodak Easy share DX6490 ($400, but you will need more mem..$50).  Its a 10x optical zoom camera that IMO is perfect for the ametuer or novice.  It employs a really good quality lens and some very nice features.

I went out looking for a 10x zoom camera with the same criteria as you did. I also considered a Konika, a Fujifilm S5000/S7000, a Cannon.  I used the digital camera resource site (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php) , Steves Digital camera reviews (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/dx6490.html) .
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Chairboy on July 13, 2004, 12:04:53 PM
For christmas, I bought my wife a Canon S400, and it is absolutely amazing.  We upgraded from a Kodak DC-265 (which was a great system), and we were astonished at how many more pictures we take now because of how small it is.

It's a tiny camera, but it takes amazing 4 megapixel pictures in all lighting conditions.  It has 3x optical zoom (which is great, especially for the size) plus all the digital 'zoom' you could ask for (remember, digital zoom is at the expense of resolution).

It has great video modes, saves to AVI and is just generally great.

They now have the S500 out (a 5 megapixel camera, logical) which is probably just as great.  It's in the pricerange you mention, and I can't recommend it enough.

Here's the S410, the 4 megapixel version:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001G6U5M/qid=1089738239/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-4041021-0054449?v=glance&s=photo&n=507846

Here's the S500:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001G6U5W/qid=1089738275/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-4041021-0054449?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: CyranoAH on July 13, 2004, 01:55:48 PM
Ammo, Kodak CCDs are receiving poor reviews. It seems it doesn't do too well with color saturation and low-light noise.

Daniel
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 13, 2004, 03:24:50 PM
Thx guys,

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 13, 2004, 03:44:45 PM
only 3 mp but that does the job still great

a very compact design



http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraDetail.php?cam=427 (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraDetail.php?cam=427)
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: slimm50 on July 13, 2004, 03:48:24 PM
I've been thoroughly satisfied with my Canon S45. I think the've come out with a later model now, but worth checking out. Takes awsome stills, is extremely versatile, and even makes pretty good video clips (up to 3 minutes with sound).
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: -ammo- on July 13, 2004, 09:02:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
Ammo, Kodak CCDs are receiving poor reviews. It seems it doesn't do too well with color saturation and low-light noise.

Daniel


Actually, I haven't found a bad review for the DX6490, which is why I bought it.  Go to DCR resource and read what they had to say.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: NUTTZ on July 14, 2004, 01:33:19 AM
I have the Cannon s50 5 mega pixals. all i can say is WOW!

I bought it at best buy running a 50 dollars off at xmas and that day they were giving a 50 dollar best buy gift cert. with any camera purchase. so i paid alittle over 300 for it. It plays 3 minutes of movie w/ sound QT format. I'm really happy with the camera.

NUTTZ
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: eskimo2 on July 14, 2004, 06:38:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
For christmas, I bought my wife a Canon S400, and it is absolutely amazing.  We upgraded from a Kodak DC-265 (which was a great system), and we were astonished at how many more pictures we take now because of how small it is.

It's a tiny camera, but it takes amazing 4 megapixel pictures in all lighting conditions.  It has 3x optical zoom (which is great, especially for the size) plus all the digital 'zoom' you could ask for (remember, digital zoom is at the expense of resolution).

It has great video modes, saves to AVI and is just generally great.

They now have the S500 out (a 5 megapixel camera, logical) which is probably just as great.  It's in the pricerange you mention, and I can't recommend it enough.

Here's the S410, the 4 megapixel version:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001G6U5M/qid=1089738239/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-4041021-0054449?v=glance&s=photo&n=507846

Here's the S500:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001G6U5W/qid=1089738275/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-4041021-0054449?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846


I have the same camera and love it.  Size does matter, big time.  I have a degree in photography, but didn't take much pictures untill I got a very small pocket camera.

eskimo
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: eskimo2 on July 14, 2004, 06:39:31 AM
Canon makes an S500 as well, same thing but 5 meg.  A friend bought one and loves it.

eskimo
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: CyranoAH on July 14, 2004, 08:18:22 AM
You can't go wrong with a Canon, that's for sure.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 14, 2004, 08:32:39 AM
Get a NIKON
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: NUTTZ on July 14, 2004, 12:47:16 PM
Yup i have the same one. I can post a 1:1 unedited shot i took over the weekend . It will be a big DL, Curly? You want me to post it in another thread?

NUTTZ


Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
Canon makes an S500 as well, same thing but 5 meg.  A friend bought one and loves it.

eskimo
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 14, 2004, 01:01:38 PM
LOL, you all are losing touch with what AKcurly wants. He wants to explore the longer range (read that as optical zoom) so he can explore that part of photography as well as the general purpose use. Although all of you are happy with your cameras for what you use them for, 3x optical zoom just doesn't cut it.
At the zoo and trying to get a close up of a lion on the other side?
Your child is in the far side of the room making priceless expressions because he/she isn't aware of your presence trying to take his/her picrure?
Same thing for the family pet.
At an airshow and want to take some shots of planes inflight?
At a car race and want to get some shots of cars racing?
All your 3x optical zoom cameras won't make those shots.
A 10x-12x optical zoom WITH image stabilization will give you a chance at a decent result.
It's funny that we all want to help, but we tend to forget what the goal of those asking the questions is.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 14, 2004, 02:01:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUTTZ
Yup i have the same one. I can post a 1:1 unedited shot i took over the weekend . It will be a big DL, Curly? You want me to post it in another thread?

NUTTZ


Nah Nuttz, I am primarily interested in the 10x zoom cameras.  But, why not post the URL?  I would like to see your photo. :)

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 15, 2004, 02:06:59 AM
AKcurly,
I can't stress the image stabilization strong enough.
Two points:
1) When shooting a magnified image, any camera shake during the shot becomes more apparent without IS, causing an unwanted blurred shot.
2) When shooting at lower light levels with an image 'noisy' camera (the small sensor of the 'point and shoot' type of camera really has a relatively low signal to noise ratio at ISO 200 and above), you'll find relatively long shutter speeds in order to capture a decent image. IS gives you that edge to capture moderate to low light shots when handholding.
IS won't give you miracles, but will give you noticeably better shots in a lot of cases.
If you don't get a camera with IS, better invest in a decent tripod.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 15, 2004, 02:33:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
AKcurly,
I can't stress the image stabilization strong enough.
Two points:
1) When shooting a magnified image, any camera shake during the shot becomes more apparent without IS, causing an unwanted blurred shot.
2) When shooting at lower light levels with an image 'noisy' camera (the small sensor of the 'point and shoot' type of camera really has a relatively low signal to noise ratio at ISO 200 and above), you'll find relatively long shutter speeds in order to capture a decent image. IS gives you that edge to capture moderate to low light shots when handholding.
IS won't give you miracles, but will give you noticeably better shots in a lot of cases.
If you don't get a camera with IS, better invest in a decent tripod.


Thanks for the advice, Saburos.  I am waiting to see a street price and review of a Konica Minolta DiMAGE Z3 since its features are superior to both the Panasonic DMC-FZ10 and Kodak 6490.  

The Panasonic and Kodak both appear quite similar to me so far as features and reviews.  I haven't read anything negative about either of them.

Thanks again,

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Nashwan on July 15, 2004, 06:03:26 AM
Have you looked at the forums at http://www.steves-digicams.com

Pretty good (and busy) forums, with sections for most popular camera makes. There's a fair sized thread on the Z3 already.

The only disadvantage to the Z3 seems to be the aperture, f2.8-4.5, compared to the FZ10 F2.8.

The Minolta certainly looks to have better movie functions though.

If you're waiting for the Z3, Panasonic are announcing the Fz15 and Fz20 any day now, so they'll be worth a look too.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Replicant on July 15, 2004, 06:28:47 AM
I have the Minolta Dimage Z1 and have been very satisfied with it.  It has all the usual features of a SLR and has 10x Optical zoom.  The new Z3 has 12x optical zoom.

Not sure if it's on the Z3 but a really neat feature is that the LCD screen can be projected so it's like a TTL using the view finder.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 15, 2004, 07:02:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
I have the Minolta Dimage Z1 and have been very satisfied with it.  It has all the usual features of a SLR and has 10x Optical zoom.  The new Z3 has 12x optical zoom.

Not sure if it's on the Z3 but a really neat feature is that the LCD screen can be projected so it's like a TTL using the view finder.


I don't see much difference between the Z2 and the Z3 other than 10x versus 12x zoom. Anyone know anything negative about the Dimage z2?

curly

edit: Nevermind, I don't see the image stabilzation on the Z2.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Replicant on July 15, 2004, 07:33:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly
I don't see much difference between the Z2 and the Z3 other than 10x versus 12x zoom. Anyone know anything negative about the Dimage z2?

curly

edit: Nevermind, I don't see the image stabilzation on the Z2.


The image stabilization might just make the Z3 into a great camera.  My only fault with the Z1 is that under low light levels you always get the camera shake warning which is very frustrating (even under moderate conditions).

BTW You can change lenses on them as well although I think the only one available at the moment is the wide 35mm I think.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Torque on July 15, 2004, 09:46:14 AM
Just make a short list and then take a CF card with you to a local Camera Shop,  try out all the cameras you want in different lighting situtations or what you'll be using the camera for most.

Bring it home and dump it, you'll have your answer.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: SaburoS on July 16, 2004, 03:35:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
BTW You can change lenses on them as well although I think the only one available at the moment is the wide 35mm I think.


Actually on 'point and shoot' type cameras, the lens is fixed and not removable. The converter lens actually gets attached to the existing lens. Trouble with converters though is that they tend to downgrade image quality somewhat.

Panasonic has as an option of both a teleconverter (for more zoom) and a wide angle converter for its FZ10 as well. They each cost almost as much as the camera though. With the added cost of converters and camera, one might be better off going to a lower priced DSLR camera.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 16, 2004, 05:19:37 AM
the coolpix 5700 is an awesome camera

it's 8X zoom

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/coolpix5700-review/

i think this i'm gonna buy as my next camera

the 5400 is also an option but it's only 4X zoom

but u can put an telelens on it

both can do up to 3 frames a second wich is faster than a canon :)
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Torque on July 16, 2004, 10:19:57 PM
Nevar had a good pic using 8x zoom on the 5700, makes me wonder just how good these 10-12x zooms are on the other PS cameras.

But for Macros the Nikon PS cameras can't be beat, but they're noise machines in low light and no prelamp that blows.

Coolpix 5000

(http://members.rogers.com/ereid/images2/14.jpg)



I'd say get the Canon A80 for all round use and buy a 2G card.
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Masherbrum on July 16, 2004, 10:56:38 PM
http://www.dpreview.com is THE PREMIER site to look at Iron.

Personally, I;m a little partial to Canon S60's.  $449.

Check out the website though.

Karaya
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: BU9E22 on July 17, 2004, 09:50:58 AM
My simple SQ and low light

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/277_1090075135_dscn2355.gif)
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: BU9E22 on July 17, 2004, 10:28:15 AM
more light is always better
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/277_1090077986_dscn2290.gif)
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: -ammo- on July 17, 2004, 01:02:23 PM
Taken with my Kodak DX6490 in Macro.  Sorry bout the size.  I need to tone down the settings on the camera, but don't know how yet.

(http://home.satx.rr.com/pointblank/films/000_0082.JPG)
(http://home.satx.rr.com/pointblank/films/100_0022.JPG)
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: Wanker on July 19, 2004, 03:19:14 PM
Thanks for the recommendations, guys. I bought my wife a Canon A80 today for a graduation present for getting her Master's Degree.

Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: AKcurly on July 20, 2004, 04:29:03 AM
Man,   I've looked at cameras until my eyes started suffering from barrel distortion!

Given my requirements and others suggested by you, the Canon PowerShot S1 IS appears to be my best candidate.  It has superb movie capabilty (none better); it has good to excellent imaging ability; it has a 10x zoom lens; and it stabilizes the image.  And last but not least, it's the least expensive of the 10x zoom, movies (640x480,30 fps) and stabilized image cameras.

I would genuinely appreciate anyone setting me straight if I am incorrect.

curly
Title: Camera recommendation
Post by: jodgi on July 20, 2004, 07:32:26 AM
What I've gone with is the quality of the optics, the rest is (just) details.

I have a Nikon Coolpix (Nikkor optics) photocamera.

And a Sony (Carl Zeiss optics) vidcamera.

I know that Panasonic is using Leica optics on some camera.

Any camera will never be better than the optics used.