Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: skev on July 14, 2004, 06:33:52 PM
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is there a reason why all the bigger maps have gone away?
I belong to a small squad of guys who every once in a while like to accomplish thing toghter large maps give us upportunities for this
small maps are nothing but furballs (have nothing agianst them I enjoy a good massive fight once in a while)
wouldnt mind seeing a bigger map soon
just one mans opinion doesnt mean it the right one
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The big maps will be converted eventually. There a couple of problems with converting them. First, the average number of fields on a small map is 60. The big ones average 250. Just in case you haven't noticed, a lot of things changed with the fields and this as to be adjusted (sometimes by 'hand').
Second, the only big map that does not use 'non-standard' shape groups is AKDesert. Odds are good, for this reason, that it will be the first converted (because it can be done more quickly). I happen to know that someone is working to convert Big Isles. Trinity should also be fairly easy (the only 'non-standard' shape group in Trinity is TankTown). Fester's last map will most likely be the last converted because it uses tons of non-standard stuff, all of which will have to be edited out before it can be converted.
Now, keep in mind that there is a problem for many folks right now with CTDs and screen stutters. Add to that the fact that coding of the TE is not complete......and you should start to see that maps are currently a low priority at HTC. Be patient :).
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
I happen to know that someone is working to convert Big Isles.
Wasn't Big Isles removed from the rotation for playability reasons?
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Wasn't Big Isles removed from the rotation for playability reasons?
That is my understanding. One would assume that those issues would be dealt with.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Second, the only big map that does not use 'non-standard' shape groups is AKDesert. Odds are good, for this reason, that it will be the first converted (because it can be done more quickly).
if pizza is the first big map converted to AHII i might take my money to WWIIOL...........:mad:
HATE THAT MAP
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Originally posted by Overlag
if pizza is the first big map converted to AHII i might take my money to WWIIOL...........:mad:
HATE THAT MAP
Pizza map isn't even suitable to line my budgie cage with. Much less devote my free-time to play on.
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Originally posted by skev
small maps are nothing but furballs
I don't know why people keep saying this. It is completely false. In any small map, 90% of my engagements are 5v5 or less, usually less. Sure you can join the big furball if you want, but there are ALWAYS several alternate small fights going on. Take a look at the darbar, there are people everywhere. There are also always several empty bases for you to milkrun on, if that is your style.
I'll admit that it is more likely for opposition to quickly scramble previously empty bases on small maps, but that should be considered a BENEFIT for both attacker and defender. Aren't we here to fight human opposition? The only thing possibly missing from small maps is the ability to easily milkrun a base.
I generally try to find fights which are not gangbangs one way or the other--I can always find something on small maps. Bigger maps, OTOH...I consider myself very lucky if I find anything OTHER than gangbangs (both from my side and the other). On maps like Pizza, the map is almost always a bunch of monocolor blobs scattered over the map, traveling between empty bases. Sure you see that on small maps too--gangbangers will be gangbangers regardless of map. Difference is, on the smaller maps you can easily find alternatives. If you avoid the gangs on bigger maps you end up flying around for ages, only occasionally finding something. Or you wait for a carrier to approach a base, thereby simulating a small map and allowing some fun for a short period of time.
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90% of my engagements are 5v5 or less, usually less. Sure you can join the big furball if you want, but there are ALWAYS several alternate small fights going on.
Difference is, on the smaller maps you can easily find alternatives. If you avoid the gangs on bigger maps you end up flying around for ages, only occasionally finding something.
I dont understand how you can say that the big maps makes it harder to find fights. Maybe if your playing in the mornings when there arent many people online. If you log on during primetime there are lots of small 5v5 fights everywhere. It spreads out the front lines and makes the furballs smaller, not larger.
I dont see any increase in time to find a fight. I am just able to find fights without having to dive into 30v30. SA is impossible in a furball of that size and to avoid them in the small maps is almost as impossible.
In the large maps it IMHO is more fun with things being more spread out. As always we need more diversity, and I know its coming. We all just need to be patient. I know I played for years on the same map in AW and never complained. We are all just a bit spoiled I think.
RHIN0
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All of our maps are big.
Get out a road map, draw a circle with a 125 mile radius around your house, then try to tell yourself "this is too small for 500 people" while keeping a straight face.
The 512-size maps are completely insane for the numbers AH has.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
All of our maps are big.
Get out a road map, draw a circle with a 125 mile radius around your house, then try to tell yourself "this is too small for 500 people" while keeping a straight face.
The 512-size maps are completely insane for the numbers AH has.
J_A_B
Actually, if you stop and think about it.......125 miles might sound big for 500 folks walking or driving cars...but, not those flying in planes at 250 to 300 mph :).
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I dunno, even with 500 players online most of a 256 map is pretty empty. Sure there's action in the middle, but the fringes are still fairly deserted.
Mindanao is the only one which IMO really approaches a "high" player concentration and that can't really be called a 256 map since much of the space is waste.
J_A_B
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Get out a road map, draw a circle with a 125 mile radius around your house, then try to tell yourself "this is too small for 500 people" while keeping a straight face.
:) <---------straight face.........."This is too small for 500 people"
125 miles at 400mph=18.75minutes X 2 = 37.5minutes......yes that is small considering there are 60 fields in that space.
Diversity is needed. Just like we had in AH1. Not everyone liked pizza, but hey there was always a change coming on Friday!
RHIN0
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I am getting the idea that numer of fields/numer of "fight corridors" is more of a problem than physical size of the map. I will agree that on some maps there is a shortage of bases and base layout could be improved. This can be done without increasing the physical size of the maps.
Honestly now, how often does anyone fly more than 50-70 miles from the base they took off from? Usually it's much less than that. THAT is what matters--local conditions in any given 50 or so mile area of airspace.
I've made attempts to utilize the terrain editor in the past but lets just say my artistic skills are horrible. I guess, in the end, my point is moot since HTC has said they will not accept new 256-size maps.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by kevykev56
I dont understand how you can say that the big maps makes it harder to find fights. Maybe if your playing in the mornings when there arent many people online. If you log on during primetime there are lots of small 5v5 fights everywhere.
Nonsense. I play USPT. On maps like Pizza and BI, you have to fly forever to get anywhere, and by the time you get there the fight's over (if there was any to begin with). Look at the dot dars and the darbars. The only way to find any action is to either join a gangbang or to up at a vulched field.
It's not the size of the map, it's the distance between bases. As soon as a carrier approaches a base on BI, suddenly there is a fight. Only a single furball, but that's better than nothing at all. Then the carrier leaves or gets sunk, and it's back to long periods of emptiness.
Originally posted by kevykev56
I dont see any increase in time to find a fight. I am just able to find fights without having to dive into 30v30.
This statement is both untrue and logically flawed. If bases are far apart, it takes longer to get places. And the bigger the volume, the less likely that particles will hit each other. You see a smaller non-horde bardar and take off, but by the time you get there, the enemy has already landed because no one showed up. Things just take too long, and a critical mass doesn't have time to form. Now you fly to another base, maybe find a con, and then auger cause now your're out of fuel.
Here's a suggestion for small maps. Try going somewhere other than the furball, where the bardars are smaller. You'll *always* find a small fight.
Originally posted by kevykev56
SA is impossible in a furball of that size and to avoid them in the small maps is almost as impossible.
Bull. Lack of skill doesn't imply that skill doesn't exist. I'm not a great pilot either, but there are plenty of folks who have the SA to kill and survive in that environment.
And if you honestly can't find anything but the big furball in small maps, then you haven't tried looking in other places.
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One thing the big maps have is lots of fleets. Fleets make good fights, like it or not. Putting a fleet on the bottom is always a bad thing for fights.
If you want fights don't sink fleets, and bring on big maps!
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Originally posted by MetaTron
One thing the big maps have is lots of fleets. Fleets make good fights, like it or not. Putting a fleet on the bottom is always a bad thing for fights.
Yes, on big maps fleets are great, because that's the only time a non-gangbang fight occurs. On small maps (or maps with close fields), fights happen all the time, as if fleets are all over the place.
Originally posted by MetaTron
If you want fights don't sink fleets
True.
Originally posted by MetaTron
and bring on big maps!
False.
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good thing about big maps is if its up for a whole week, you wont have fighted at base A5 100 times already, but have a choice of moving around .
Big maps allow more movements of fronts, which gives you alot more areas to be in over a whole week.
I like the current map on MA (the island one) but after 2 weeks of fighting on the same terrain is got boring. A big map would mean that some times your fighting here, and sometimes 100 miles away.
Right now, movement of the front = one country (seems to be rooks lately) down to there last island, fighting from a hole.
i dont want massive 200mile long fronts which are undefendable, but i dont want that Mindanao 25mile front line bs, where all 400 players are fighting for the same 3 bases.
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Originally posted by phookat
I generally try to find fights which are not gangbangs one way or the other--I can always find something on small maps. Bigger maps, OTOH...I consider myself very lucky if I find anything OTHER than gangbangs (both from my side and the other). on the smaller maps you can easily find alternatives. If you avoid the gangs on bigger maps you end up flying around for ages, only occasionally finding something. Or you wait for a carrier to approach a base, thereby simulating a small map and allowing some fun for a short period of time.
See now I find the exact reverse to be true.
What starts out as a small fight almost always turns into a gangbang before my flight is over. Had one HELL of a good fight goinig on the other night between myself alone and two rooks. That is till 3 other rooks showed up and decided their two countrymen needed help with the one me. An the larger maps I can almost always find these kind of small fights and they stay that way for the duration of the fight. Which is something that very rarely happens on the small maps where the rule of the day is mob and be mobbed
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Originally posted by Overlag
i dont want massive 200mile long fronts which are undefendable, but i dont want that Mindanao 25mile front line bs, where all 400 players are fighting for the same 3 bases.
VERY VERY well put
I be very willing to settle for an inbetween. And something with more variety for sure.
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Nonsense. I play USPT. On maps like Pizza and BI, you have to fly forever to get anywhere, and by the time you get there the fight's over (if there was any to begin with). Look at the dot dars and the darbars. The only way to find any action is to either join a gangbang or to up at a vulched field.
phookat the first step to realizing what is going on here is self realization. You are not grasping that you are a furballer. You want and have a desire for instant action. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everone has the right to play the game how they want. You just need to understand that I dont like being forced to play the way You want me to. I enjoy the 1v1, or 1v2. The smaller fights.
example: Tonight was at 15k 109f4, engaged with pony. after an awesome fight from a disadvantage I got on the pony 6 and was about to finish him off. Then here comes another pony, and another, and before you know it I had 6 NME on me and trying to take them to the deck because I had no chance but to get them low for my country men to kill them. (furball eruption)
This is what you find in the small maps. It is rare when you can find a decent fight without being jumped by tons of fighters.
I have been flying at 25K looking for other fighters at high alt and stall fighting at that alt. This is the only way to avoid the Instant action seekers, and I seem to find the better pilots in this realm.
This statement is both untrue and logically flawed. If bases are far apart, it takes longer to get places. And the bigger the volume, the less likely that particles will hit each other. You see a smaller non-horde bardar and take off, but by the time you get there, the enemy has already landed because no one showed up. Things just take too long, and a critical mass doesn't have time to form. Now you fly to another base, maybe find a con, and then auger cause now your're out of fuel.
This last statement, calling me a liar and illogical? Wow, do you fly in the large maps? You say you do but I see just the opposite of what you describe. I get to the base, and there is 1 or 2 cons to deal with, kill them or be killed. Go home, rinse repeat. Again, realize that you are a furballer and that is what you want, instant action.
I havent ran out of fuel yet in AH2, suggest you use E6B, and/or choose a different aircraft.
Bull. Lack of skill doesn't imply that skill doesn't exist. I'm not a great pilot either, but there are plenty of folks who have the SA to kill and survive in that environment. And if you honestly can't find anything but the big furball in small maps, then you haven't tried looking in other places.
Never implied lack of skill. If I get killed in a 6v1 does that mean my skill level is lower than the one who shot me down? Negative, It means I cant keep up with and avoid that many cons at one time. SA is lost because of saturation.
Sure I can dive into a furball and kill cons. But what are the odd of coming out alive? be realistic, fly outside a furball and watch. It is like watching Suicide porkers auger into the dirt. One goes in, one blows up, over and over until one side has enough numbers to push the nme back to thier field.
The ones with the "Skill" as you put it, to survive that environment are the cherrypickers or the boom and zoomers.
For you phookat I would suggest more time in the MA to better understand what is going on.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by phookat
It's not the size of the map, it's the distance between bases. As soon as a carrier approaches a base on BI, suddenly there is a fight. Only a single furball, but that's better than nothing at all. Then the carrier leaves or gets sunk, and it's back to long periods of emptiness.
Ding ding ding... we haavvee a winner!
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Originally posted by kevykev56
phookat the first step to realizing what is going on here is self realization. You are not grasping that you are a furballer. You want and have a desire for instant action. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everone has the right to play the game how they want. You just need to understand that I dont like being forced to play the way You want me to. I enjoy the 1v1, or 1v2. The smaller fights.
You are confusing concepts. Furball != instant action. Furball = 30 cons in one place. On maps with close bases, you can find furballs, gangbangs, hi alt fights, 2v2, whatever you want. No one is forcing you to play one way on a small map, and there are plenty of choices available. As opposed to far bases where your only choices are gangbangs and emptiness. If you don't like "instant action", feel free to take off from a rear base. You can do that on small maps too. And you can fly through nothingness for ages, just like a big map.
If you want 1v1 with no interference, go to the DA.
Originally posted by kevykev56
example: Tonight was at 15k 109f4, engaged with pony. after an awesome fight from a disadvantage I got on the pony 6 and was about to finish him off. Then here comes another pony, and another, and before you know it I had 6 NME on me and trying to take them to the deck because I had no chance but to get them low for my country men to kill them. (furball eruption)
Anecdotal. If you get frustrated that you can't get the kill you "deserve", you need to take a break from the game. Or go to the DA. I personally have no problem finding small fights on small maps, but I make the minimal effort to go looking for them (i.e. I don't just fly on the direct line between two frontline contested bases).
Originally posted by kevykev56
This last statement, calling me a liar and illogical? Wow, do you fly in the large maps? You say you do but I see just the opposite of what you describe. I get to the base, and there is 1 or 2 cons to deal with, kill them or be killed. Go home, rinse repeat. Again, realize that you are a furballer and that is what you want, instant action.
Yes, I want instant action. No, I'm not a "furballer", although I do like to join the furball sometimes. Yes, I do fly on big maps. Most of the time I'm sitting around flying through emptiness, until finally I find a con. Flying through emptiness is not my idea of fun. Neither is joining a gangbang, or being ganged. On large-spaced maps, those are the only choices. Like I said, if you like emptiness you can do that on small maps too by upping a rear field. Everyone's preferences are accomodated in maps with close fields.
Originally posted by kevykev56
I havent ran out of fuel yet in AH2
Yeah obviously, we are playing on a small map.
Originally posted by kevykev56
Never implied lack of skill. If I get killed in a 6v1 does that mean my skill level is lower than the one who shot me down? Negative, It means I cant keep up with and avoid that many cons at one time. SA is lost because of saturation.
This describes a gangbang, not a furball. There are people who have the SA to kill and survive in a furball without cherrypicking.
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Yes, I want instant action. No, I'm not a "furballer", although I do like to join the furball sometimes.
This says it all. You just dont realize who you are. Self realization is one of the hardest processes for people to grasp.
Phookat, This isnt my first time out of the gate. Contrary to what you may believe. I understand the principles set forth in aerial combat. I understand how to find the fights I am interested in. The problem is that they rarely exist on the small maps.
I am not going to peice by peice your last message because it would be nothing more than repeating myself. I cant pour info into your head, you have to open your ears/eyes and listen/read and try to comprehend what the other is saying.
You by your own admision are wanting instant action. Something that is harder to find on large maps, yet you disagree that the oppisite is capabable of happening on smaller maps. This dichotomy is and will exisit in AH forever. Just needs to be equal time for both viewpoits to be explored..ie bring back the big maps and put them in rotation. It will happen, just a matter of time. I am patiently waiting.
This describes a gangbang, not a furball. There are people who have the SA to kill and survive in a furball without cherrypicking.
I have to comment on this one, just change the 6v1 to 6v6...its all the same, SA is impossible. In a 6v6...it is still 6v1 because in a furball you can only count on yourself to get your rear out of trouble.
Will someone with this skill speak up, Id like to the one who can %100 furball without dying. :D
RHIN0
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Originally posted by kevykev56
This says it all. You just dont realize who you are. Self realization is one of the hardest processes for people to grasp.
Do you understand the distinction between furballer and instant action?
Originally posted by kevykev56
I am not going to peice by peice your last message because it would be nothing more than repeating myself.
LOL.
Originally posted by kevykev56
I cant pour info into your head, you have to open your ears/eyes and listen/read and try to comprehend what the other is saying.
Oh, I understand perfectly well what you are looking for. This isn't exactly a doctoral dissertation. You want the playing field to be sparse enough that your 1v1 is uninterrupted, and if that means the rest of us have to fly for eternity and likely find nothing at the end of it, that's OK with you becuase you don't have any problem sitting around in nothingness for long periods of time. You need to realize two things:
1) Large-spaced maps force this type of gameplay, while small maps do not force any type of gameplay. If you up a peripheral base on a small-spaced map, you get exactly the same effect as upping from a large-spaced map (i.e. not likely to find anyone, but when you do you won't be interrupted).
2) Part of flying in the MA is learning to deal with the unexpected. If you are frustrated that you can't get kills in such an environment, then improve your skill. Or eat less salty foods. If you want to entirely eliminate the unexpected, try the DA. Don't "solve the problem" by forcing the rest of us into large-spaced gameplay.
Originally posted by kevykev56
This dichotomy is and will exisit in AH forever. Just needs to be equal time for both viewpoits to be explored
Both viewpoints have been explored to death, and all the issues are on the table.
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Don't "solve the problem" by forcing the rest of us into large-spaced gameplay.
It works both ways.
Both viewpoints have been explored to death, and all the issues are on the table.
One point I will agree with you on.
RHIN0
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Little kevykev cooome to the liiiight. It's goood in the liiight. We're waiiting for you in the liiiight. Cooome to the liiight.
Want to see furballing done right? Check a few of these films.
http://www.theblueknights.com/Films.html (http://www.theblueknights.com/Films.html)
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none of them work with the current AH film viewer
and when i use my AH1 film viewer, there all jumpy as if hes breaking the sound barrier
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Bummer, haven't tried them since the changeover. Hope we don't lose all the great old films like these. There's alot out there still to learn from...