Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FT_Animal on July 14, 2004, 10:39:51 PM
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I'm the kind of guy who likes to bring things of interest to a main center point.
While making a training/traning films page for my updated site it occured to me....
Wouldn't it be a good idea to start a process so that a broader pilot training can evolve. I think it would be good to have a Pilot Training forum on this BB.
I think this could help spark a more enthusiastic approach to inspire people who'd like to train other pilots.
I haven't look into it much in AH, but training is something that needs to be taken more seriously. I think it would be another brick in the wall to an evolving community, another side to it.
My concept is, the more sides you add to something, the more it becomes more well rounded.
All it would cost you is a few lines of script in the BB. I think this would be a huge benefit to many, including HTC.
just 2 cents..
Anim
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Good suggestion. I think the help forum may have been intended for that, but a lot of the times it drifts to help running the program or scheduling place for the TA. For awhile, some good films were being posted there. Right now, with the transition, its dried up a little. Guess part of that is the film viewer isn't up to par yet.
Something I've yet to see - a good film of excercises to do offline to improve gunnery. In AW there were some impressive offline films - one that comes to mind is Vossman's verticals up the buildings in the city.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Good suggestion. I think the help forum may have been intended for that, but a lot of the times it drifts to help running the program or scheduling place for the TA. For awhile, some good films were being posted there. Right now, with the transition, its dried up a little. Guess part of that is the film viewer isn't up to par yet.
Something I've yet to see - a good film of excercises to do offline to improve gunnery. In AW there were some impressive offline films - one that comes to mind is Vossman's verticals up the buildings in the city.
I have a lot of training films going up on the AHTH site. Sim films and real orginal trainging films. and for specific ac ;-)
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here here good idea
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What??? How dare you try to avert people's attention away from Voss, Fester, hackers, AH2 bugs and the rest of the dysentary that gurggles through the UBB :D
DmdMax
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DMax, How about not jumping into good topics with garbage.
To eveyone else, don't jump on my band wangon, just let this thread continue with out the peanut galarie jumping in.
HiTech
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Dunno 'bout yer bandwagon, but I think an ACM (only) related forum would be a great idea. ;)
h
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I guess I'm one of the few that never played AW, so I can't really relate to the training program they had, but I have the understanding it was pretty good. Enough AW people here you guys could probably get it going.
As for the peanut gallery, definitely a bunch of goobers handy for that.
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A new pilot training forum would be of good use............or maybe break it down more
a pilot training category with forums for Beginners -- start here -- forum
Situational Awareness Forum
Basic Flight Manuevers Forum
converging BFMs into ACM Forum
Training Films Forum
how To Be The Monkey On Top ( King Of The Mountian ) Forum
I am more for an informal training schedule, with say 3 nights a week, can hold these at like 8pm est M,W,F and possibly 11pm est Tues & thurs say 2 hours each night......I know , I Know this has all been said before, but if done right I think the whole game and community can excel from this......( btw I thought the Training Staff was already working on something similar to this idea)
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As a new member only being in the game for about a month I would really benifit from such a forum as would other new users. I have been watching others films and have spent alot of time offline and in the training arena. And I really have to thank Ghost for showing me the basics in flight. Along with all the others in the MA for helping with any questions I have had.
:aok
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heres another good forum
people who crave bb respect=morphious
and people who could care less what you flockers say about me
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Originally posted by hitech
just let this thread continue with out the peanut galarie jumping in
HiTech
I think AH has the best training program, vets can earn free time online by training newbies.
However, it isn't widely publicized. Maybe the top 5 or 10 to earning trainers could be posted at the end of each month?
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"it isn't widely publicized"
IMO it should be part of the logon screen. Not too "in your face" like but large and clear enough to get the attention of the people it is aimed at. A [click here for training program/information] button perhaps. It could also be in BOLD text in any "Welcome To Aces High..." email when you sign up for an account. Perhaps a short, second email to a new player explaining just this facet so it does not get lost in the initial information overload new players experience.
The boards are visited by 10-15% of the online player base so IMO any type of prgoram has to be covered with things that every one sees when they login or get from HTC when they sign up for AH.
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Originally posted by hitech
DMax, How about not jumping into good topics with garbage.
To eveyone else, don't jump on my band wangon, just let this thread continue with out the peanut galarie jumping in.
HiTech
when Meta started the Big base thread...were was the BBS police for the peanut gallery.....
see you are showing different strokes for different folks?
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Originally posted by -MZ-
I think AH has the best training program, vets can earn free time online by training newbies.
However, it isn't widely publicized. Maybe the top 5 or 10 to earning trainers could be posted at the end of each month?
AH has the best training proggie??
You have to know it exist before you can use it. And if you can't find it to use it then it's not the best. It may be the best for the trainers, but I think the focus needs to be on the *trainees*.
IMO, Training many people does not mean they are being trained correctly, only means somone hording greenstamps for free time from HTC.
There needs to be an actual program, giving trainers free time is not a program, it's pay for running a program that doesn't exist.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
AH has the best training proggie??
You have to know it exist before you can use it. And if you can't find it to use it then it's not the best. It may be the best for the trainers, but I think the focus needs to be on the *trainees*.
IMO, Training many people does not mean they are being trained correctly, only means somone hording greenstamps for free time from HTC.
There needs to be an actual program, giving trainers free time is not a program, it's pay for running a program that doesn't exist.
Maybe I'm ignorant,...... educate me.
Anim
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Originally posted by MadBull
As a new member only being in the game for about a month I would really benifit from such a forum as would other new users. I have been watching others films and have spent alot of time offline and in the training arena. And I really have to thank Ghost for showing me the basics in flight. Along with all the others in the MA for helping with any questions I have had.
:aok
IMO
This is the type of guy we should to listen too for how relevant\important it is. Training doesn't mean as much to a vet as a new user.
Find out what the new user is looking for. We see this stuff day in and day out. We get to a point where we no can no longer see what is missing to promote keeping the new user in the game long enough to become a vet, who will then have the option available to help train.
The new users can tell us what seems to be missing. It's up to the *Community* "vets" to come together to debate, design and provide it, if allowed. Because it takes players with drive to contribute, there will be a natural weeding process eliminating the average sub-standard player’s nonsense.
This concept is what seems to be one of the missing keys in the AH Community. Call them newbies, call them green ears, call them what you will, the community focus should be on the new users. This in itself, will help secure the longevity of life of the game. Which also gives HTC the finances and time to keep progressing the sim.
Training, is massively important on so many levels. Without training, you don’t have a very good life cycle. You have players who do sounds, some do skins, another crowd tends to spend time on scenarios. Then you have the left out players\contributors, the buttons needs to be pushed to turn the training cycle to full throttle. Utilize these people.
The “Trainee to Vet” cycle is a vital blood flow to the longevity and game advancement. More focus needs to be in this area. Think of it as building a “Perpetual Engine”. And the players can take pride in making it run. Sense of pride keeps people around for a LONG time.
I’m sure nothing I said is new, but from a forum, a superior training program can evolve.
Another 2 cents ;-)
Anim
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Originally posted by Westy
"it isn't widely publicized"
IMO it should be part of the logon screen. Not too "in your face" like but large and clear enough to get the attention of the people it is aimed at. A [click here for training program/information] button perhaps. It could also be in BOLD text in any "Welcome To Aces High..." email when you sign up for an account. Perhaps a short, second email to a new player explaining just this facet so it does not get lost in the initial information overload new players experience.
The boards are visited by 10-15% of the online player base so IMO any type of prgoram has to be covered with things that every one sees when they login or get from HTC when they sign up for AH.
Great idea! ;-)
Anim
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I've only been on for 4 mos, so the newbie phase is still fresh for me. I have a couple suggestions:
1. Vets need to continue to be welcoming. "alt-f4" jokes, which come from a minority, SHOULD BE QUASHED WHENEVER SEEN (And, no, I never got caught by that one.:) )
2. The "ask for training" interface in the game needs to be tuned up. I never was offered training despite "requesting" a trainer, and once I started checking in to giving training I could see why.
A) Many of the "trainees" in the selection box don't even know they're in it -- and have progressed past wanting it. HT, put in a window so newbies are prompted to respond about desire for training when they log on; when they chose to do so, start prompting "do you still want to request training".
B) When a player requesting training logs on, how about a ch200 message saying "a player requesting training has logged on"? When the MA has been boring, I've at times looked for somebody I could teach starting game mechanics -- but couldn't find, as all the green names in the box didnt want training. I've had to watch 200 for newbie type questions, then PM an offer to train.
C) And while we're at it, the trainer dialogue box is just acting, well, weird. When I adopted somebody, I ended up with my name in green on the right-- even when I had been playing for 4 mos. How about letting a player who sees his name double click on it to change request status?
3. Teaching should have a curriculum -- trainers should know to start with game mechanics, move to energy management, etc. Some of my teachers have started with, "so, what do you want to know?" While I had been exposed to Shaw's book, and had enough background to know what I needed, many new players are going to say "I want to fly good." Theydon't know what to ask, needing help even with that.
The majority of vets are welcoming, and willing to teach. There are a vocal minority who seem to go out of their way to put down or taunt newbies, on 200. The mature vets should really be proactive about scolding the jerks, and intercepting the Alt-f4s!
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Is that not what this is for?
Help and Training (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=10)
Or are you saying you'd like it divided into two different forums?
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""alt-f4" jokes, which come from a minority.."
I agree. The joke is decades past being stale and lame. This is the same group/type that gets a hoot out of replying "TWO WEEKS!" to every "when?" question posted.
You can take the boy our of 5ht grade but for a few you can't take the 5th grade out of them.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Is that not what this is for?
Help and Training (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=10)
Or are you saying you'd like it divided into two different forums?
No, unacceptable .
They need to be a separate entity.
It needs to be in the new players face so that there is no question that it exist and made easy as possible to become a part of it.
Westy has a very good idea, it may need to be refined but still a logical idea.
And flaky vets need to realize humiliating and chasing off newbies lowers life expectancy of AH. Take time to welcome and help every newbie you meet, in an adult manner.
I'm not trying to make AH training the same as AW training was, iot would be nice but this is AH and HTC wants to be original, but I know how good it can be, and I know how it's not messuring up to it's full ability in AH. No offence intended, just cut and dry reality.
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I think we need a sticky post in the help/training forum with all the great websites , and film links .
Just so we dont have to keep reposting them all the time .
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pretty much taken care of in AHTH when it goes up.
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Originally posted by hitech
DMax, How about not jumping into good topics with garbage.
HiTech
HT - sorry if I offended your, or anyone else's sensibilities. My post was meant as a "tongue-in-cheek" response. Animal's original post is worth consideration, to say the least. Hope it pans out.
DmdMax
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
No, unacceptable .
They need to be a separate entity.
It needs to be in the new players face so that there is no question that it exist and made easy as possible to become a part of it.
Well if they come to this BBS they see "Help and Support Forums" followed by "Help and Training".
When they go online they see "Training Arena".
I'm not sure how much more 'in the new players face' it could get but whatever you guys come up with is fine by me. I am tired of chasing these skilless/clueless dweebs everywhere and always offer newbies help or send them to GhostH. ;)
More power to ya and good luck!
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Originally posted by DMax
HT - sorry if I offended your, or anyone else's sensibilities. My post was meant as a "tongue-in-cheek" response. Animal's original post is worth consideration, to say the least. Hope it pans out.
DmdMax
I don think anyone was offended, I wasn't, I think it was more of a blanket warning something he wants taken seriously, from my perspective.
anim
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Originally posted by DipStick
Well if they come to this BBS they see "Help and Support Forums" followed by "Help and Training".
When they go online they see "Training Arena".
I'm not sure how much more 'in the new players face' it could get but whatever you guys come up with is fine by me. I am tired of chasing these skilless/clueless dweebs everywhere and always offer newbies help or send them to GhostH. ;)
More power to ya and good luck!
You have to make it so easy a slightly trained monkey could figure it out. Like I said, we see these things day in and day out, we know where they are.
Again, Westy's post is the type of in their face I'm talking about.
Help and training should be separate, Help is more technical, training is a different subject and requires a different type of dialogue, *IMO*. When you mix them it's a type of body language that says, "ya we do it, but it's not a priority...."
I'm sure all was meant well to mix them I just happen to disagree.
Anim
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I agree, just look at some of the topics in Help. Stick help, movie help etc. A training area devoted to acm (from beginner to advanced) would be a good idea IMO - like a SimQ devoted to Aces High. And films! Plenty of films!
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I agree things should be obvious and agressively helpful. Passive mathods-- like expecting someone to realize ahead of time how useful the BBS can be -- will only catch a certain number of the newbies, andn most likely the ones least likely to bail out of the game quickly.
I hear a definite strain in many of the responses, and it echos the unfortunate MA CH200 tone -- almost "whaddya expect kid? Now go someplace else, yer botherin me."
Yes, resources are available. Yes, newbies could dig a lot of it out on their own. BUT why do the vets want them to? This game gets a huge chunk of its resources from early to mid players. If the trial membership retention rate went up, and the number of active players in Ah climbed, what would the programming/ support resources mean to the vets? How much better would the flight combat environment for the vets? What would it do to the whines about La/Nik/pony/spit incompetence? (OK, scratch that -- NOTHING will change the whinings :lol )
So enough for motivation. Stop saying that it's not needed -- the people who'd use it, the newbies, are saying that they want it available. Lets find a way to make the learning environment accessable, friendly, and effective.
As to effectiveness -- HT, it seems we've heard from a couple voices saying that matching interested teachers with interested learners is not going well in the MA. .(EDIT: When I first joined, I tried going alone a couple times before I asked for a trainer. I never did get a response from the trainer window system, and I can now see some of why that is.) Those wanting to teach can't find those wanting to learn, and vice versa. There have to be lots of ways to make it happen, and the two that came to me right off are:
1) maybe have a dialogue box that allows people to select when they log on between "I'd like to request a trainer for this session," "I'd like to play wihtout requesting a trainer this session," and "Don't ask me this in the future." It could keep coming up until the last option is checked, which allows people full control of their request status.
2) make the trainer box reflect the actual requests rather than some chronologic guideline, so when trainers see the green names they know those people are actually interested.
3)put a generic CH 200 message out when a requesting player logs -- something like "a player requesting training help has logged on."
I also agree that a curriculum would be a good idea, and the BBS and trainers could/should follow the same progression -- so the trainers could use the bbs as a reference for learner's further info when they're teaching.