Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maniac on July 15, 2004, 04:24:47 AM
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WTF??
They giving stereoids (anabolics) in their breakfast as a part of their training or something?
All your track and field stars are cheating...
Time to get rid of the steriod checks? let everyone take em?
Everyone seems to do it anyway...
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Ya Ben Johnson must be one pissed off dude. They stripped him and ran him out of sports and handed the medal to a better cheater.
lol
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Originally posted by Pongo
Ya Ben Johnson must be one pissed off dude. They stripped him and ran him out of sports and handed the medal to a better cheater.
lol
I still remember Michael Johnson pulling up lame in Toronto, when Ben smacked him down. But, it's a shame atheletes take that chit.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Pongo
Ya Ben Johnson must be one pissed off dude. They stripped him and ran him out of sports and handed the medal to a better cheater.
lol
Carl Lewis never was under suspicion of using drugs. Ben Johnson got busted...twice. Ben earned the right to get stripped and disgraced.
Masherburn, Michael Johnson never raced Ben Johnson in that circus of a 150 meter race, it was Donovan Bailey, and they're both juiced up, self-righteous clowns.
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there's a female runner that's pissed cause all she did was get acused and they pulled her from the team or somthing. She flat out threw a challenge down to the board prove it or STFU. Sorry to busy to find an actual link.
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shame we dont have uber-fast smallish drug test machines...then we could just test em before the race even starts...
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Carl Lewis never was under suspicion of using drugs. Ben Johnson got busted...twice. Ben earned the right to get stripped and disgraced.
Masherburn, Michael Johnson never raced Ben Johnson in that circus of a 150 meter race, it was Donovan Bailey, and they're both juiced up, self-righteous clowns.
Are you saying he didnt use drugs? Im saying he did. And its a shame to pile gold and fortune a man who was a better cheater but a worse runner.
If you dont know that Lewises drug use is out of the closet.
sorry to break the news to you (http://www.sports-drugs.com/asp/ss_news23.asp)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
there's a female runner that's pissed cause all she did was get acused and they pulled her from the team or somthing. She flat out threw a challenge down to the board prove it or STFU. Sorry to busy to find an actual link.
Sounds like Marion Jones.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Are you saying he didnt use drugs? Im saying he did. And its a shame to pile gold and fortune a man who was a better cheater but a worse runner.
If you dont know that Lewises drug use is out of the closet.
sorry to break the news to you (http://www.sports-drugs.com/asp/ss_news23.asp)
Yes. I am saying he didn't use drugs. I watch and read the news regularly, and have seen nothing about it, or on his personal website, that I recently visited (within the last 3 weeks, and just today to verify an earlier post).
Pongo, all your link suggests is some relevation that took place last weekend, with no full story related to it. I would think the most decorated track and field runner of all time coming out about drug use would draw at least a little media attention, expesially with all the issues surrounding Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and other high profile athletes.
Also, I take into question any news outlet that gets someone's name wrong. His name is Johnson, not Johnston.
I question the credibility of the news source. I don't question yours for providing it.
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pongown3d
Carl Lewis took Sudafed (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html?oneclick=true).
Oh Nos Sudafed!!!
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Yes. I am saying he didn't use drugs. I watch and read the news regularly, and have seen nothing about it, or on his personal website, that I recently visited (within the last 3 weeks, and just today to verify an earlier post).
Pongo, all your link suggests is some relevation that took place last weekend, with no full story related to it. I would think the most decorated track and field runner of all time coming out about drug use would draw at least a little media attention, expesially with all the issues surrounding Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, and other high profile athletes.
It would probably be a much bigger story if it happened now, but the details were released about a year ago.
A senior official in the US athletics anti-drugs orginisation released thousands of documents to the press. They showed Lews and 2 others failed drugs tests at the US olympic trials before the Seoul olympics, but were automatically cleared, and the info not made public.
Just do a google search for carl lewis exum, (Exum is the US official's name).
Here's a bit from Reuters:
At last, the truth is known. When Ben Johnson tested positive for the steroid stanozolol and had to give up his gold medal at the Seoul Olympics, that medal was in turn awarded to a drug cheat.
Carl Lewis, hypocrite and multiple Olympic medallist, was merely one of more than 100 American athletes whose positive drug tests were suppressed by the United States Olympic Committee in what has to be the most pervasive doping conspiracy since the East German steroid factory was shut down.
The whistle-blower this time was Dr. Wade Exum, the former USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000. According to 30,000 pages of documents covering the years between 1988 and 2000 released to Sports Illustrated and the Orange County register by Dr. Exum, Lewis himself had tested positive for ephe-drine, pseudoephedrine and phenylpropanoline during the U.S. Olympic trials in 1988.
Far from being suspended for the Seoul Olympics, Lewis was let off with a warning and allowed to compete. After he was the primary beneficiary of Johnson's positive test, Lewis was in the vanguard of the athletes lining up to condemn Johnson as a drug cheat two months after he himself had been allowed to wriggle out of a positive test.
And Lewis was only the most prominent of the athletes involved. The list includes Joe DeLoach, 200-metres winner in Seoul; Andre Phillips, a star in the 400-metre hurdles; soccer's Alexei Lalas and tennis player Mary Joe Fernandez, who tested positive for pseudoephedrine just before the '92 Games in Barcelona.
The cheating was almost certainly more widespread than the incidents mentioned in the newly released documents. The list, for instance, does not include Florence Griffith-Joyner, although the circumstantial evidence points to steroid use on her part before she won the women's 100 metres in Seoul.
The revelations are not a surprise. There have been rumours for years that the USOC was suppressing positive tests. The U.S. Track & Field Federation has been involved in a longstanding dispute with the sport's world governing body over its refusal to release the identity of an American athlete who tested positive before the Sydney Olympics, an athlete who may have been involved in one of the gold-medal U.S. sprint-relay teams.
What is shocking is the extent of the conspiracy. A total of 114 positive tests hidden over a period of at least 15 years, 10,000 pages of documents, the biggest Olympic athlete of the era himself implicated in the scandal. Altogether, the athletes involved won 18 Olympic medals between 1988 and 2000.
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Carl Lewis took Sudafed.
Oh Nos Sudafed!!!
"He claims these substances came from a cold remedy he took.
"Now, I have to be careful what I'm saying, but it seems funny to me that it's only athletes in the power events who ever seem to have colds," said Cram.
"It never seems to be a middle-distance runners who are caught taking flu remedies.
"And even in my day you knew what you couldn't take when you had a cold, and Carl more than anyone else would have known that.
"I simply can't buy that 'mistake' line as an excuse."
Steve Cram
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Ya know I've taken Sudafed for years. Never noticed any increase in my ability to jump and run. Was I doing it wrong?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Ya know I've taken Sudafed for years. Never noticed any increase in my ability to jump and run. Was I doing it wrong?
Perhaps because you did the "pump & cum", instead of the "jump & run". :D
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Yes, you were taking sudafed. What you should have been doing is taking large amounts of ephedrine, and using sudafed as the excuse when you failed a drugs test.
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Saw a documentary last night about all this. Turns out during the '84 Olympics there were a TON of positives, and the sheet of paper that listed the names matching those positives was kept in a safe in one of the IOC official's hotel room.
Someone came in, took the safe and shredded the list.
Big sponsorship money from running shoe companies is pretty much to blame for all this, from what I could tell... But then who could even blame them? They couldn't very well use East German girls so doped up they became men before the age of 14 to hock their shoes.
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Hell I just typed "carl lewis banned substances" into google and took the first of 1000s of hits.
Its a service I provide to people that insist something never happend without ever looking into it themselves.(except maybe on carllewis.com or whitehouse.org)
It was regular every day big old front page news when it was anounced. Sorry people have suppressed it.
Johnson was so stupid and pumped up after his win that when his lacky handed him the masking drink he said he didnt need it..lol
Lewis was so disapointed in losing so badly that he took his..
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
pongown3d
Carl Lewis took Sudafed (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html?oneclick=true).
Oh Nos Sudafed!!!
You ever going to get tired of making yourself look stupid trying to prove me wrong? Do you have some kind of stock in Carl Lewis.com or something? what do you care that he cheated? Why ignore the obvios established fact that he did?
His tests where hidden from the Olyimpic comittee. They were not destroyed.(unlike someones service records) So the fact that he took a masking agent is undeniable. Why deny it?
Hes guilty. He should be stripped of his medals. Period.
He is not the greatest runner in history. He is just a cheater that was deliberatly sheltered by his country.
Just like the top runners in most every country probably where and are.
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How exactly does pseudephedrine enhance fitness?
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You ever taken the stuff Funked?
A couple capsules, a random car backfire and I'm off like the freakin' WIND!
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Okay here's the deal as I understand it...
(could be all way wrong but what's new)
Starting in 74, the East Germans began the whole 'roid thing to make their country look like winners.
In the 76' Olympics, those East Germans owned pretty much everything. It's how the eastern block chick jokes started.
In '78 or so, Nike developed "Athletics West", which hired all the 'roid shoguns to teach all the US coaches what they knew.
By '80 - everyone was on dope... But Carter boycotted the games.
Then in '84 Moscow boycotted the games.
Still..... everyone was on dope.
Then in.... damn I'm confused because the winter Olympics got switched around so it's 2-2... but whatever...
The IOC had ZERO interest in revealing just how prevelant drugs were... except that they got busted by the press with the Ben Johnson case (was likely the IOC would have covered that up as well if they could). So the IOC does a nifty about-face, and calls for an independant doping investigating body...
And here we are.
Lewis was juiced as shreck... Only a moron would think otherwise. There were something like 8 confirmed positives in the race Johnson won.
I don't blame any of them... no way you could even qualify otherwise.
You had East Germany creating monsters to show the rest of the world how great their political system was. And you had Nike to show the rest of the world how great their shoes were. The athletes were the pawns... and some of those folks are REAL shrecked up now.
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Sorry, you aren't going to get me excited about somebody taking cold medicine. Nothing like steroids or blood doping, not even close.
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I don't know anything 'bout cold medicine..,.
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This is starting to remind me of the Avro Arrow thread (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html).
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dude...
Lewis.... juiced.... mkay?
not the end of the world.
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TORONTO (CP) "Exum (Ben Johnson's agent) said Lewis tested positive three times for small amounts of banned stimulants found in cold medications at the 1988 Olympic trials. The American Olympic body first disqualified Lewis, then accepted his appeal on the basis of inadvertent use. Lewis went on to win gold at Seoul in the long jump -- and in the 100 metres after Johnson was stripped of his gold medal and world record after being disqualified for using steroids."
Steriods...Sudafed...Steriods ...Sudafed...which one is sold out of the back of the truck behind the gym?
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Oh yeah yer right. Steriods were sold out of the backs of a trucks behind the local gyms.
Sudafed, on the otherhand, was an official sponsor to the Olympics and a good thing that was, seeing as so many athletes seemed to come down with colds at such an inopportune time.
EVERYONE was juiced to the TITS. My god...
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Originally posted by Nash
EVERYONE was juiced to the TITS. My god...
If I can find a single athlete who was not juiced then your statement would be incorrect... 10,000+ athletes at the games. Think the curling team is juiced? (yeah I know thats winter)
All I was pointing out that if I were to take anabolic steriods, I would know I was breaking the rules. It would be a clear cut dead bang violation. I could easily take an over the counter anti pollen drug and inadvertantly break the IOC's banned substance list.
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Oh so you could find a freakin' curler and make the whole thing moot?
k... neat and now lets enter the mysterious realm known as reality.
All I was pointing out that if I were to take anabolic steriods, I would know I was breaking the rules.
okay, yup, with ya.
It would be a clear cut dead bang violation.
Oh I hear ya!
I could easily take an over the counter anti pollen drug and inadvertantly break the IOC's banned substance list.
At this point I'm left with the nagging suspicion that I haven't got a fricken clue what you are trying to say.
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http://www.wada-ama.org/docs/web/standards_harmonization/code/list_standard_2004.pdf (http://)
I know better than you think.
Read the list and then check your medicine cabinet. Many over the counter medicines have ingredients on the list. Can you pass the urinalysis any time throughout the year as a competitive athlete needs to? (at least a high profile one?)
Yeah, and all I need is a single athlete to show your broad brush statement is wrong. Like I said 10,000+ competitors.
Steven Redgrave for instance took the banned substance Insulin. But then again he is a diabetic. You want to take away his medals?
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"Now, I have to be careful what I'm saying, but it seems funny to me that it's only athletes in the power events who ever seem to have colds," said Cram.
Butch Reynolds was banned for life for taking prescription medication back in 1987, I believe...he was a 400 meter runner. Sudafed and some other OTC drugs contain trace elements of substances that are believed to enhance performance. even caffeine is a banned substance, as is tobacco, as is alcohol.
better not take NyQuil, either. 10% alcohol...
Where is the quote from Carl Lewis that he took anything that was banned or otherwise? Also, would Reuters claim someone as a hyprocrite? Isin't that placing judgement?
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Okay.... I hear ya? Uh huh... I am readin' yer email. Yeah, Uh- huh? Yup, here it is...
Dope.
DOPE.
Screw alla cold remedy whatever...
If yer in the Olympics pre 2004 you are having a tender suckle at the fruity nipple of JUICE.
Still don't know why that's considered so outrageous.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Where is the quote from Carl Lewis that he took anything that was banned or otherwise? Also, would Reuters claim someone as a hyprocrite? Isin't that placing judgement?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html?oneclick=true (http://)
"Lewis and two of his training partners all took the same three types of banned stimulants and were caught at the 1988 US Olympic trials, according to the documents released by a disgruntled former senior US anti-doping official, Dr Wade Exum.
But on appeal to their national Olympic committee, all were cleared of inadvertent doping. Two months later, at the Seoul Olympics, Lewis finished second in the 100 metres sprint. But when Canadian Ben Johnson failed his Olympic drug test, Lewis was awarded the 100m gold."
"The latest documents show Lewis tested positive for the banned stimulants found in cold medications: pseudoephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanolamine."
Ben Johnson tested positive for Winstrol, a common anabolic steroid, which is taken in a regimented fashion. It is nearly impossible to take it inadvertently. Psuedophedrine and ephedrine have effects similar to epinephrine (adrenaline) and can be found in products like Ibuprofen cold and sinus, Sinutab, Aleve, Sudafed, etc.
Many athletes go to world championships or the Olympic Games and are attacked by whatever viruses are common to the new environs which were not common at training sites. Andy Sudduth was the single scull rower for the USA was considered a strong contender for a medal but fought a cold during his time in Korea. He made the finals but came in sixth after years of training and dreaming to achieve his goal.
The reason the US Track team is under such scrutiny is because the United States Anti Doping Agency is taking a much tougher stance than the previous oversight organization. Marion Jones never failed a test but the USADA considered sanctions against her for their strong suspicion. There is no reasonable doubt threshold.
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400m is a power event.
As to sudafed:
Carl Lewis failed a drugs test. He claims it's because he took medicine that contained ephedrine. He's hardly likely to have thrown his hands up and admitted to taking drugs, is he?
Sudafed is the excuse. How long do you think the tiny amounts of ephedrine in cold medicine stay in the body? Ever seen carl Lewis look like he had a cold before one of his races? Ever see any sprinter look like he had a cold? Ever think that if he really had a cold, he'd have zero chance of even reaching the final?
Sudafed is the excuse, like failing a breath test and claiming it was the medicine you took. Of course you weren't drink driving. Thing is, the courts won't listen, but the athletics associations were all too ready to listen.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Ever think that if he really had a cold, he'd have zero chance of even reaching the final?
Andy Sudduth reached the final in rowing in '88 with a cold.
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Originally posted by vorticon
shame we dont have uber-fast smallish drug test machines...then we could just test em before the race even starts...
That only works for drugs that enhance performance while in the body, like stimulants.
The problem with anabolic steroids is they are used in the training phase to incresae muscle mass and strength. They stop the drugs long enough before the test so that it's out of their system. Of course every now and then they get the timing wrong and get busted.
The only way to effectively ban steroids is with random unannounced tests throughout the year.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
This is starting to remind me of the Avro Arrow thread (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html).
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Yeah Funked...
An Olympic athlete taking drugs... What a stretch...
some people, eh?
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The IOC has been for year auctioning off the medals and games to the highest bidder.
You want a level playing field checkout the Special Olympics.
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I was teaching in 1984. One of my co-workers (Fred) was a world class sprinter (10.0 100 meter), and his wife was a 22+ foot long jumper. She placed 8th in the US Olympic trials. He ran for the US Team in the Pan Am Games and some other thing down in Australia.
Both were convinced that Lewis was juiced. Fred's main reason was the lack of peaks and valleys Lewis exhibited over the years.
They also thought Carol Lewis (sister and long jumper) was the ***** from hell.
But the person they hated the most of all was Daley Thomson. He was according to them the most arrogant unfriendly and self centered salamander in the entire T & F community.
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Originally posted by Nash
An Olympic athlete taking drugs... What a stretch...
some people, eh?
What I was pointing out Nash, it that there is a diference in admitting that there is a problem with performance enhancing drug use in athletics, and accusing every single athlete of being doped because they compete on a high level.
Argentine Football (Soccer) legend Mardona was diciplined for drug use, professional cycling, Baseball, Basketball, American football, all have had these issues so drug abuse is certianly not limited to only Olympic athletes. It obviously is a huge issue, but to say they are all on dope is falsely accusing innocents among the guilty.
If, for instance, one were to accuse all of a certian race of sharing a certian behavior, that would be wrong wouldn't it? Same thing here.
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True enough Holden.
My response was actually in response to Funked who posted a link to tinfoil hats, then thought that was so neat that he ended up quoting himself and posting it again.
Yeah, blanket statements (such as mine) saying that all athletes using drugs are just wrong. OTOH, some mocking defense of an individual's circumstance which you know next to nothing about is just as off.
Yeah, not everone uses/used drugs. Many do/did. I haven't personally handled Lewis' test result (would be kind of hard since it got shredded) but I know enough about Lewis, doping and the entire context of the whole thing to come to a pretty strong conclusion about it. I highly, highly doubt it, but I could be wrong.
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Originally posted by Nash
OTOH, some mocking defense of an individual's circumstance which you know next to nothing about is just as off.
I haven't personally handled Lewis' test result...
So were you off when you made comments about "an individual's circumstance which you know next to nothing about"?
I competed in single sculls in the '88 trials and went to several camps over the years to compete for a seat on the sweep crew. I have many friends who have been on US National Rowing teams. I have yet to meet a rower who I have suspected of intentionally using performance enhancing drugs and I have yet to speak with another rower who has had the suspicion.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So were you off when you made comments about "an individual's circumstance which you know next to nothing about"?
I'm not seeing the connection... but no. I know something about it. Like I said, I could be wrong. But my opinion, while just that, is informed... And I'm not wearing no hat.
And my informed guess is that as the testing gets as refined as the masking, you are not going to see near some of the times/distances posted as what we'll probably look back and refer to as the wonder years.
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The connection is quite obvious. You have not seen the test results and yet you seem to think you are fully informed about Carl Lewis.
I am glad you won't be sitting on any jury in judgement of me.
I have some personal experience in international athletic competition, (I will be up your way in Edmonton next summer for the World Masters Games as I still compete... at an even faster speed, although we race half the Olympic distance.)
Records are made to be broken, and when Roger Bannister broke the unbreakable four minute mile barrier, I doubt he was helped with questionable substances yet he was able to better everyone who ran before him.
Dispite the recently published tabloid journalism book, I believe that Lance Armstrong pushes through personal pain thresholds because he knows he's had worse. Whatever happens on the bike is much less than what he experienced in the hospital. This gives him a depth of character that leads him to be able to train harder than his rivals. As he has never failed a drug test, I believe he is clean.
Cheaters will always be with us, but there are those who better their performance through depth of character, better technique and hard work. I know many of them, and I would like to think I am among them.
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How truly inspiring, Holden. :D
The connection is quite obvious. You have not seen the test results and yet you seem to think you are fully informed about Carl Lewis.
Despite a few attempts... I guess I haven't been able to express myself clearly enough. Happens alla time. Again, I am not fully informed enough to know. I am fully informed enough to come to an informed opinion.
I would be suprised to somehow find myself proven wrong wrt to Lewis... but it would not rock my world.
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Sports stories are supposed to be inspiring. Sometimes like the little kid asking Joe Jackson to "Say it ain't so, Joe", our sports heros come down to earth and show that they are human.
But just because the 1919 Sox threw the series, I am not ready to say all sports is corrupt. I know too many in my sport who are not. But perhaps it is just because competetive rowing is as pure as the wind driven snow.
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I hear ya.
My brother ended up playing a talking head on like, ABC or NBC news for a story they did about doping. (he aint a doping expert, just a writer for the LA Times and something he wrote sparked something). He basically said "People want to know that what they're watching out there is real".
Like you said, "our sports heros come down to earth and show that they are human." But that's hard to do if they're transforming themselves into displaying unhuman-like abilities.
Great for shoe sales, not for "Joe" tales.