Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Halo on July 15, 2004, 11:35:36 PM
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Theoretically and practically, what is the best gun platform?
All guns nose mounted and no prop synchronization like the P-38?
All guns cowl mounted with prop synch like the La-7?
Gun in prop hub and cowl guns synch like Yak-3?
Gun in prop hub, cowl guns synch and wing guns like P-39?
Unsynch wing guns like P-51?
I would think the P-38 arrangement is best for air to air with no synch or convergence issues. Is that correct?
I would think unsynch wing guns would be best for strafing. Is that correct?
I would think there were no synch wing guns, i.e., mounted so close to fuselage that they fired through prop arc. Is that correct?
I would think that any synch gun has some kind of effect on prop rpms and hence aircraft speed. Is that correct?
Do guns firing through the prop hub affect engine sync and hence speed?
What are the most important pros and cons of each of these gun arrangements and any other major variation not previously mentioned?
What prompts this thread is continued puzzlement over effectiveness of fighters with guns synchronized to fire through prop arc. I would think that the gearing and timing would impair speed and thus make them less effective fighters.
But doesn't seem to be the case.
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"I would think there were no synch wing guns, i.e., mounted so close to fuselage that they fired through prop arc. Is that correct? "
FW-190's inboard cannons, for one.
J_A_B
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Wow, 190 inboards firing through prop arc blow my mind. I must be thinking firing a gun through a prop arc is tougher than it is. Please enlighten me.
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It so happens there's an interesting thread on synchronized guns subject in another forum on this BBS.
Synchronized Guns (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123450)
In general I would agree that an arrangement like the P-38 probaly makes for the best overall gun platform. The added stability given by the very high weight and twin counter-rotating engines is an additional bonus.
J_A_B
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Here's your best gun platform :eek:
(http://www.jagdtiger.de/GermanTanks/Wirbelwind-02.jpg)
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Not sure about real life but ingame I've found the 38 easiest to hit with by far...
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/147_1089981367_b25h-5.jpg)
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Yak9T
They could actually do away with the MG.
The 37mm in the nose rules all.
Just a matter of learning WHEN to pull the trigger.
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There is this very, exact article on what would be the most ideal A2A gunnery platform written by Mr. Tony Williams.
To sum it up, the Ta152H or the La-9 is the closest thing in real life to what he considers the ideal - 20mms inboard, one very powerful cannon shooting through the hub(although he doesn't look too highly on the mismatch of the MG151/20 and MK108)... or four 20mm(23mm in case of the La-9) cannons bunched up in the cowl.
Here's the link to the article:
Ideal WW2 Fighter Armament (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ideal.htm)
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Yak9T
They could actually do away with the MG.
The 37mm in the nose rules all.
Just a matter of learning WHEN to pull the trigger.
Yep... And to think they put those NS-37s in the nose of some Yak-9Us (along with 2 20mm cannons!)
But as much as I'd like to crown my favorite Ride king of the gun platforms, I can't help but think that the P-38 is a better layout. No need to mess with snychros for additional guns. If you put an NS-37 in place of the 20mm, it would be even better than the Tazholiy Yak.
-Sik
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(http://homepage3.nifty.com/OZAWA_hospital/028d-bf110c.JPG)
Bf110g2 4x20mms and 2x30mms in the nose.
:D :cool:
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Yep... And to think they put those NS-37s in the nose of some Yak-9Us (along with 2 20mm cannons!)
But as much as I'd like to crown my favorite Ride king of the gun platforms, I can't help but think that the P-38 is a better layout. No need to mess with snychros for additional guns. If you put an NS-37 in place of the 20mm, it would be even better than the Tazholiy Yak.
-Sik
Ewww a YAK with 2 x 20mm PLUS a 37mm?
YUM YuM!
HT how much scotch? Could be a quick & dirty varient.
DJ111, only problem with the 110 is the differing ballistics between the 20mm & the 30mm.
Now if they'd put 6x20mm in those, with lots of ammo they'd of had a winner IMO.
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Very interesting, good threads, thanks.
So ... according to Williams' speculative ideal WWII single-engine fighter armanent, best arrangement would be one 30mm cannon firing through hub plus two 20 mm cannon in wing roots (vee engine) or two 20mm in cowling and two 20mm in wing roots (radial engine), requiring synchronization for all.
And twin-engine fighters provide best choice of all with no synch problems in clear nose.
One other question which am still uncertain about -- does Aces High model synchronization? I assume not, and this could make a big difference since synch apparently reduces rate of fire 10 to 50%.
If synch not modeled, are guns that fire through prop reduced in fire rate to simulate the lesser firepower?
One other nitpicky question: is the fire rate reduced in any way of a cannon firing through the prop hub or is the rate just as free as a clear nose mounting such as on a P-38?
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AC-130
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Typhoon.....MOSSIE
ultimate gun platforms in AH
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If the gunnery on the P-38 was modeled correctly and gave it a shotgun like impact effect that it had in real life, the guns on it would be far deadlier than what it already is in AH.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by VWE
AC-130
...or the AH equivolent....the B-17.
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Originally posted by Halo
Theoretically and practically, what is the best gun platform?
depends on your purpose...
Are you trying to knock down buffs, under armored rice burners, or overloaded buff killers?
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Halo, AH models synch rates.
But it is a 'generic' method IIRC, something like assuming 20% off from its unsynched rate for all guns - at least that's what I seem to remember from what Pyro said about AH synch rates.
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(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/oa-10-19990517-f-2907c-023.jpg)
just kidding...
(http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/dehavilland_mosquito/mosquito_fb-5.jpg)
A 57mm cannon-armed FB Mk.XVIII 'Tse-tse' Mosquito
-SLICER
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Thanks, Kweassa. Aces High is so good I figured it might be modeling some sort of synch. Impressive that the game would be even that accurate.
Would be interesting if Aces High plane descriptions could include gun rate of fire and effect of synch.
Better yet a general chart listing all the weapons, their max ranges and range of max impact, then adjustments only for various planes employing them in synch situations.
And ... in the firepower chart for each plane and gv, a firepower impact number the way some aircraft books provide.
That's after we get 50 new planes and GVs and Tour of Duty is out and polished.
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I like the Fw-190A8, but the most stable (in the game) is the P-38L.
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Hurricane II-D, with the 2x40mm cannon and the 4 .303's
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Personally, I have the easiest time with the American planes such as the 51 and F6F.
Just set the outer gun convergance to max, the inners about 350-400, and i knock it out.
But the F6F is much easier than the 51, just because it is more stable and has better low speed and stall characteristics than the 51.
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i would say the 190A8 with the 4x20mm's i think it is. Also the 152, puts a whole lotta hurt in close promixity.