Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SCDR on July 17, 2004, 04:21:38 PM
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Is there one? Seems like we were "stuck" with BigIsles for 3
weeks. What was wrong with the other 2 maps that they couldn't
be rotated into service?
Are we going to have to live with each map for 3 weeks?:confused:
SCDR
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To create a map rotation....the whole country needs to...WORK TOGETHER
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seems to me at the moment that as htc are working on the patches they keep the same map then when patch is ready the map changes also.
perhaps this is good to keep things constant for a while.test the patch on another map before it is releaced?
i know one map is a pain but when everything is working they will start n new maps
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Originally posted by rogerdee
seems to me at the moment that as htc are working on the patches they keep the same map then when patch is ready the map changes also.
perhaps this is good to keep things constant for a while.test the patch on another map before it is releaced?
i know one map is a pain but when everything is working they will start n new maps
OK, now the question arises, will the new patch have glitches on
the next map? We're on patch 6 yet I've only seen 3 maps rotate.
Hmmm....BRB. OK, I checked and there are 4 maps in the ahiiterr
subdir of AH2 and 1 map, named ah2beta in the terrains subdir.
SCDR
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It was repeated to my hat HT or Skuzzy said if we want a new map. We would have to reset the current one. Who ever said we have to work together was correct. But remember if each country works together and the numbers are fairly even, then a reset is VERY unlikely. I noticed last Friday night the Rooks had 197 players the Nits at 123 and the Bish were at 136 at around 11:00 pm eastern time. I think the Small Island map was reset by the Rooks sometime in the wee hours on last Friday night. I seen 8 or so Bishops comment that we should just let the Rooks win so we could get a new map. This kind of thinking a communication is what gets some players thinking "Whats the use" and causes many of them to jump ship in the last couple of hours before a reset. I also think that this is going to be the norm unless something changes. I know that the Rooks have been singled out many times as having the Numbers advantage a lot in the past months. And of course they and others explain that there were times when the Rooks were on the Low end for a while. BUT I can say without reservation that i know the Rooks have held the numbers advantage MUCH longer than either the Nits or the Bish since i started playing AH almost 3 years ago now.
AH was released on 1/24/2000
The following threads seem to indicate that the Knights began to carry the "Numbers Advantage Torch" around October of 2000. About 6 months or so after it was clear they began to notice or feel out numbered.
Knights take the Numbers Torch Oct 2000 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=25400&referrerid=7566)
Knights still on top 4/20/2001 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5208&referrerid=7566)
The Following threads, Clearly indicate the time period that the Rooks took the Numbers Torch was around (Jan of 2003).
Dec/11th/2002 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=72436&referrerid=7566)
Dwc/30th/2002 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=74316&referrerid=7566)
Jan/13th/2003 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=75605&referrerid=7566)
Dec/12th/2002 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=72491&referrerid=7566)
Here is the "Numbers Advantage" stats.
AH release. 1/24/2000
Rooks/Bish reing from 1/24/2000~10/01/2000 about 10 months.
Nights reing from 10/1/2000~11/01/2001 1 year and 1 month.
Bish reing from 11/01/2001~01/01/2003 1year 2 months.
Rooks reing 01/01/2003~07/18/2004....1.5 years.
It seems to grow like a cancer.
The Rooks have held the Numbers Advantage longer than either of the other two countries within the 2.5 years that i have played AH. I can only wonder if the reing of the next "Numbers Torch Barer" will be over 2 years?
More Research
After an extensive search of the BBS from the time AH went LIVE on Jan/24th/2000 till present. I found the following info.
I used several Search words "Side Balancing", "Hoard" "Numbers Advantage" "Ganging" "GangBang" "Gang Bang" and so forth.
I conducted the searches on the two different threads entitled... "Game Play" and "General Discussion"
Below is the earliest complaint i found indicating that a particular country wa being gang banged. Although it isnt clear as to which country had the advantage. It is clear that a particular country,(Knights) were felling the Squeez. However the Knights had the most kills acording the the stats that someone retreived. Knights(16,426) Rooks (12,971) and Bish (15,047).
Knights Out Numbered 6/17/2000 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24118&referrerid=7566)
Below is an interesting excerpt from one of the above threads
Originally posted by StSanta
Tour 7:
Lately, the Knights have had numbers during prime hours, so that naturally upsets the numbers, making them not so reliable. It might (or might not) serve as some kind of illustration; either both the rook and bish prefer fighting Knights, or (and this is especially true for this tour) Knights have been strong enough in numbers to fight a two front war.
Iv'e heard some arguments about numbers, and my philosophy is like this; if a country is gangbanged, no matter which country, and it has the equivalent of numbers of the two other countries combined, it does not have "numbers". Fighter for fighter, it faces an equal number of enemies, only on two fronts. And this probably explains the numbers.
I'll admit I've yelled gangbang more than a few times (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif), but it's probably like when ya run across a red light; you're thinking "why do I ALWAYS get a red light?!?" totally forgetting all the green lights you've had.
Several things come to mind after reading this quote.
First the Knights seem to be taking the Numbers Advantage Torch around 10/2000.
Secondly it is my personal recollection that in the earlier days the followings comments were very accurate "If a country is gangbanged, no matter which country, and it has the equivalent of numbers of the two other countries combined, it does not have "numbers". Fighter for fighter, it faces an equal number of enemies, only on two fronts."
However this no longer rings true.
It cannot be disputed that the 2 countries with the largest numbers attack the country with the lowest numbers in effort to "Steal" the win from each other and collect the Perks and the Honor of being named to "Winner". With the current setup we can expect this to be the Normal.
Likewise it cannot be disputed that it is becoming increasingly more un-balanced as time goes by. (Rooks had 197 players the Nits at 123 and the Bish were at 136. Last Friday evening prime time) it used to be a big deal when a said country had 20 to 30 more players than the other two. Now its very common the see a single country at prime time having 50 even 60+ players advantage over the other two.
What can be done? I don’t know. :confused:
Why has it become more and more lopsided than ever before?
I think we might be seeing a "Security in Numbers" thing playing out. Imagine if you were a New Player to AH2 these days and you join up with the Bish or Knights at first logon. After a few weeks you are getting you butt pummeled for a couple of reasons. First you may be (New to AH2 Flight Model or even MA style Simming)
Secondly (your country is out numbered by the other 2 countries by 50 70 EVEN nearly 100 layers in some cases.) It soon becomes obvious that IF you are going to learn to play this game? It would be a lot more fun learning if you did it knowing you had 4 or 5 buddies nearby at all times to help you if you get you tit in the wringer. Couple this with other factors (Perk Points) (Endless Vulching sessions) (Getting your name in lights for a change, via the system “Kills Landed” message) Makes tons of sense for the newbie and unfortunately for some Ego seekers.
During my research i have seen every suggestion imaginable.
The only thing that i HAVENT seen tried, is to LOCK players into one country for the duration of a Tour. Many ppl think HTC would be making a mistake by doing this “UNFAIR” act. It wouldn’t bother me whatsoever to see this kind of setting. How it would be implemented is something different.
There is the issue “What if I want to fly with a friend?”
Maybe we could swap countries with a willing participant for a day? PS (This might cause people to strive to have a little more diplomatic behavior towards others)
Im sure there are tons of ins and outs on the idea. But I would welcome another attempt at trying to balance the MA numbers to within a certain ratio.
Nonetheless I think HTC has proven that they can do as they wish and for the most part we will continue to play no matter the issues or fixes. How does this relate to "Map Rotation"?
Its about the comment on "Working Together" that RTsigma pointed out.
No amount of "Working together" will keep a country from losing if they are so out numbered and to other 2 countries are working "Together" to get a new map.
:)
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And that there in lies the problem. Say for example Rooks have 150, Knits have 150, and the Bish have 100.
If spread evenly, the Bish have to deal with a 1vs1.5 ratio vs enemy fighters.
Locking players to a side for a tour would be a good idea, but then what if the sides aren't even? Should there be a way that HTC can monitor who is active on each side and count those as players, rather than those who log on once a week compared to someone who logs more often?
I heard that there was a discussion that hitech had tried the A vs B, A vs B vs C, and A vs B vs C vs D and that the 3 sides have worked the best.
Now I am not a part of the HTC team nor do I fully and completely understand their game. Myself personally, however, would like to see a two-sided war for maybe one tour and observe to see if it would provide the same amount of action, tactics, and the team work to bring about the usual feeling we get when sometimes all three sides in the MA are equal and a good war is going on.
On the other hand, we can't really force people to be dedicated to their side and give their %100 effort for that side's cause. While the RJO this past Sunday showed that there are dedicated members who love to put in the effort, what about that Joe Schmoe that comes home from work, plays for a few sorties for the heck of it, and then does something else?
Now we all know we can't have the pilot to pilot ratio as experience is a huge factor, but one man shooting down a goony is more than enough.
If no one understands this its ok, its almost 5am.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
And that there in lies the problem. Say for example Rooks have 150, Knits have 150, and the Bish have 100.
If spread evenly, the Bish have to deal with a 1vs1.5 ratio vs enemy fighters.
Locking players to a side for a tour would be a good idea, but then what if the sides aren't even? Should there be a way that HTC can monitor who is active on each side and count those as players, rather than those who log on once a week compared to someone who logs more often?
I heard that there was a discussion that hitech had tried the A vs B, A vs B vs C, and A vs B vs C vs D and that the 3 sides have worked the best.
Now I am not a part of the HTC team nor do I fully and completely understand their game. Myself personally, however, would like to see a two-sided war for maybe one tour and observe to see if it would provide the same amount of action, tactics, and the team work to bring about the usual feeling we get when sometimes all three sides in the MA are equal and a good war is going on.
On the other hand, we can't really force people to be dedicated to their side and give their %100 effort for that side's cause. While the RJO this past Sunday showed that there are dedicated members who love to put in the effort, what about that Joe Schmoe that comes home from work, plays for a few sorties for the heck of it, and then does something else?
Now we all know we can't have the pilot to pilot ratio as experience is a huge factor, but one man shooting down a goony is more than enough.
If no one understands this its ok, its almost 5am.
Of course the system would take time to even things up. But it could be done over a few months. After all...It took about 2 years for things to git this far out of whack. The RJO doesnt have anything to do with how many are currently signed as ROOKS. Unless you are saying that many players are jumping ship to partake in the Rook RJO. In which case the LOCK would prevent this. We will check the MA for the next month...make a log of the numbers...and report here. Say every hour on the hour starting about 5PM when i git off work till midnight. Could be interesting.