Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Bodhi on July 18, 2004, 01:25:59 AM
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http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14249
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indeed....
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WOW....good read.
I myself think America should brace itself for suicide bombing such as seen in Israel. Its just a matter of time. How hard is it to get 10 gallons of diesle fuel 5lbs of fertilizer and a rental car?
The real question this article brings is this: should we be afraid of arabs?
To me that's a good question because my opinion is that most terrorists are in fact arabs. So....should we be afraid of them? Me I dont know. Hmmm who knows if i'm actually making sense here but oh well...... I just seem to thing we should brace our selves for the worse and hope for the best.
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Scarry.
I think the rule of being able to search only two middle easterners is just stupid.
Yes I know a terrorist may not be from their, but it is more likely they will be.
Still we will pay for stupidity like this in the future.
Maybe the airlines should just ban all carrie on items.
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bodhi .....ya beat me to it ,lol. I hear monday night [i think but dont hold me to it ] nbc is showing an investagation on this story.I heard the lady on radio last night,she said a number of people have told her it was happenstance.She said she knew better,Why does our goverment fell they have to cover up everything.She said when she found out our own goverment would fine the airlines if they searched more then 2 arabs per plane it made her sick.Her goal is to make sure americans know this, hopefully to change the policy. She said her family and her have been threaten by certain people in the gov.She thinks she is going to keep trying to get it out.
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Originally posted by demaw1
bodhi .....ya beat me to it ,lol. I hear monday night [i think but dont hold me to it ] nbc is showing an investagation on this story.I heard the lady on radio last night,she said a number of people have told her it was happenstance.She said she knew better,Why does our goverment fell they have to cover up everything.She said when she found out our own goverment would fine the airlines if they searched more then 2 arabs per plane it made her sick.Her goal is to make sure americans know this, hopefully to change the policy. She said her family and her have been threaten by certain people in the gov.She thinks she is going to keep trying to get it out.
Just playing devils advocate here:
What if the govt allready knows about this....long befor this lady ever made her flight. What if they've known about it for a while and have been flying along side these terrorists every flight.
Here's were the problem lays. If the govt knows about this they have to have a case against these guys if they want to arrest them and detain them for any lenght of time.....not to mention try them in court. What if right now they are just gathering evidence against them....enought to put them away.
Look even an AMericn lawyer is willing to defend Sadam....whats to say the govt arrests these guys based on suspicion and "national security" and some ACLU d---head decides that that these fine gentlemen need to be free and petitions the supreme court.
Now this is no longer a matter of "national security" but of "arib rights" well its descrimination and it will not be tolerated by the librals even if they were trying to blow up a plane and we cant prove it.
Like I said....brace yourselfs. This will undo itself.
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response to gov knowing.
Some good points made,let me try here. I didnt read the story posted cause I heard her last night.The gov might have known,real hard to believe only 2 air marshalls and 8 of them on plane.Puts lots of people in danger.The marshalls sent a electronic message from plane,that is how f b i and police knew to be there.They did arrest them,to question them so i dont think they were waiting for evidence.Why is the gov threating her and her family?, I believe but not sure the gov has put a gag order on pilots.I cant believe they didnt tell the pilots as they are the most important people on the plane.See how conditioned we are to the political correct response.She thought most people on plane didnt have a clue.How do ya all feel about our gov.putting restrictions like that on our airlines,not closing our borders,after convencing us what the arabs want to do?
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I myself think America should brace itself for suicide bombing such as seen in Israel.
I agree. I don't care what the president says or any other government offical. The United States will have another terroist act. I don't know when or how but its going to happen. And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will. I hope I'm wrong though.:(
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pissed off terriost...
Jayclark...
This goverment did nothing and I repeat nothing to piss off the terrorist.We had all better get it through our heads that these people hate us because of there religion and beliefs.It is the murderers fault he/she kills not the victims.They are taught from babies to hate and kill ,they are taught that here much less over there.I wish the left would wake up but I do believe it is to late.Who played spidermans girl,kirstan duncan I think.She was on a talk show few days ago and was asked what she would do if she could be spiderman for a day.Her replay?If I could have the powers of spiderman for a day I would kill bush....
o. c. register go find it yourself if u want to read it it aint hard.
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Originally posted by Jayclark
And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will.
If you are saying this current government is the only one to have "pissed pff" the terrorists, you are wrong, so very wrong.
The Arab world has been "pissed" at us since our support of the 1947 resolution that took land from them to form the state of Israel. That is the number one reason why we have the level of terrorism we are facing today. We, and the rest of the world ignored the Arabs, who came forth, with legitamate titles, legitamate deebs, and other paperwork thye have / had saying that the land that became Israel was already theirs... We did nothing, we did not even listen. We ignored these people and started a level of frustration that goes beyond anything we understand. We by our own laws, do not allow a land claim after 20 years, so if you get a deed on a piece of property submitted and it is not fought beyore 20 years, regardless if the previous owner is right, the land is yours. End of the road their. Well guess what, we ignored our own laws to honor a 2000 year old claim on land, without compensation to the people who lived there. THere was also a contingent to that whole theft of land, that their be a creation of a "seperate and independent Palestinian State" in the area of the West Bank. We all know that has not happened, and the frustration level grows.
How do we address this now? Do we pressure the Israelis to return the west bank? That is a start. But, a big step forward in this would be for the U.S. to step up and say, "We the United States acknowledge that the Palestinians were wronged. That the land taken to form Israel was not a legitimate act. Unfortunately, we can not undo it, but the Palestinians are right in their claim. The US will now do all in it's power to help ensure the creation of a seperate autonomous Palestinian State." THat statement alone, made by our government would do immeasureable amounts of good in the eyes of the Arabs. It would give them a shred of dignity that they have been missing for nearly 60 years. From Dubai to Morrocco, we would for once be seen as fair, and caring about their plight. Will it end terrorism, no, it will not, but it will cut the amount of terrorists funneling to the radical fundamentalists. The end of these radicals will only come by the removal of their main weapon against the west, the Israeli issue, which will show the Arab world that we do indeed listen.
The Arabs are also "pissed" with us over the fact that the United States represents technology, and modernisation. Something most of them are resisting, especially the fundamentalists, as it is happening too fast. They have, in the past 60 years gone from being an ignored people, a different people who the west did not associate with until we found they had something we wanted... oil. In the last 60 years, they have gone from being a group of tribes under a common banner to being full fledged nations participating in modern world affairs. In 60 years... they went from were we were in the 1400's to where we are today... imagine the turmoil and you can imagine the further problems.
Simply put, I do not support the terrorists, but I do understand where they are coming from. I also understand that no matter how much we throw at this militarily, we will not defeat it that way. So, that leads us to one road, understanding which will bring about the cooperation to end terrorism.
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Originally posted by Jayclark
I agree. I don't care what the president says or any other government offical. The United States will have another terroist act. I don't know when or how but its going to happen. And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will. I hope I'm wrong though.:(
They don't need to. With half the country thinking the way you do, expecting the 'big' attack after the biggest attack of all times has already been carried out, the job of the terrorist is largely done in this country. We, as a people, are terrified.
No terrorist can destroy a nation. Terrorists, by definition, create much more fear than destruction. What destroys the fabric of their enemies is the public response to their actions. Osama Bin Laden in reality doesn't need to organize another act in his life to remain on the forefront of our thinking. All he needs to do is put out some crappily-produced videos of him shooting his AK, give some more interviews to secretly sympathetic Islamic reporters and the results will be the same. The nation will go through its orange and red alerts. We'll be scared. We'll blame the government for failing, first in catching him and then in appeasing him. Bin Laden, as sick as it sounds, is starting to behave like a figment of pop culture. The evil Britney Spears with a beard. Everything he says or does, no matter how inane or vacuous, still registers hits on the psyche of a population. Unlike Britney, though, hsi influence crosses all demographic barriers of Western Society.
But, just to play devil's advocate, here's a scenario to prove that nuclear weapons or even extensive planning are not necessary to bring a devastating attack to our shores.
Take about fifty mindless extremists, er, I mean freedom-fighters, all connected by cell phone. Dispurse them within five or six major cities in the nation. Equip them with cars, guns and the most basic homemade explosives, and wait for rushhour to hit. In small teams, these guys locate fuel tanker trucks and systematically take them over and explode them. Blow up two tankers on the same stretch of crowded highway during bumper-to-bumper traffic and not only will you get mass casualties, but you'll throw each respective city into wide-spread, paralysing panic. You'll also disrupt commerce. Worst of all, you'll show us that we're no longer even safe on the ground.
But why bother? We're already terrified.
Should we be complacent? Hell no. We should seek them out and exterminate them everywhere we find them, like the roaches they are, but we need to get on with our lives at the same time.
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Originally posted by Capt. Pork
They don't need to. With half the country thinking the way you do, expecting the 'big' attack after the biggest attack of all times has already been carried out, the job of the terrorist is largely done in this country. We, as a people, are terrified.
No terrorist can destroy a nation. Terrorists, by definition, create much more fear than destruction. What destroys the fabric of their enemies is the public response to their actions. Osama Bin Laden in reality doesn't need to organize another act in his life to remain on the forefront of our thinking. All he needs to do is put out some crappily-produced videos of him shooting his AK, give some more interviews to secretly sympathetic Islamic reporters and the results will be the same. The nation will go through its orange and red alerts. We'll be scared. We'll blame the government for failing, first in catching him and then in appeasing him. Bin Laden, as sick as it sounds, is starting to behave like a figment of pop culture. The evil Britney Spears with a beard. Everything he says or does, no matter how inane or vacuous, still registers hits on the psyche of a population. Unlike Britney, though, hsi influence crosses all demographic barriers of Western Society.
But, just to play devil's advocate, here's a scenario to prove that nuclear weapons or even extensive planning are not necessary to bring a devastating attack to our shores.
Take about fifty mindless extremists, er, I mean freedom-fighters, all connected by cell phone. Dispurse them within five or six major cities in the nation. Equip them with cars, guns and the most basic homemade explosives, and wait for rushhour to hit. In small teams, these guys locate fuel tanker trucks and systematically take them over and explode them. Blow up two tankers on the same stretch of crowded highway during bumper-to-bumper traffic and not only will you get mass casualties, but you'll throw each respective city into wide-spread, paralysing panic. You'll also disrupt commerce. Worst of all, you'll show us that we're no longer even safe on the ground.
But why bother? We're already terrified.
Should we be complacent? Hell no. We should seek them out and exterminate them everywhere we find them, like the roaches they are, but we need to get on with our lives at the same time.
Beat me to it Capt. Pork, they have indeed already won.
The premise of the article is how can we remain a free and open society and yet not live in fear of terrorism.
The answer to that is we can't.
We will suffer further casualties.
We are each responsible for our own well being.
The police, national guard or the whole military cannot insure my safety.
The best person to make sure you are safe is you. Accept the responsibility or die.
I would direct you to the sage wisdom of our founding fathers.
What would they have done? By their writings it is evident to me.
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response to Bodhi.
I look forward to your post and will continue to ,but we part company so fast this time my head is spinning lol.The british defeated terrorism in the late 1800s in the same area,yes terrorist can be defeated,I am sad to say not the way we are fighting it now,now just slows it down.Although I understand the frustration some of you feel we have not lost yet.We will be hit harder again mostly because of our stupid polices yes from this administration[ not a put down just fact,cant win this war and be polictically correct.] Capt p we as a nation are not terrorfied,I have to think we can at least do as well as Israel.Have you read about g,washington,if not for his faith in God he would have given up with in a year.Remember our safety has never been insured ever.The only difference between now and before is for the first time we have a very large left at our back that has lost their moral compass,compared to a much smaller anti America movement before.I submit to you we are not terrorfied as a whole.Americans have always been responseable for there own safety,we need to take the ability to be responsable back.They will only win if we give up ,remember,the few has always fought for the many.
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demaw1
Sadly, this war on terrorism will never be won by military action alone. We are creating more martyrs daily, with 10's of thousands waiting to join the ranks. Most of what I said is garnered from reading various different books to help understand the Islamic viewpoint. The people from the middle east need to have a voice, and in the abscence of help and listening from us, the only voice they have left is the terrorist.
Try as we might, we will never end it, not now. The 1800's are a far cry different from now... containment then was a real possibility, today, the information age alone allows the vast dissemination of any and all of their ideals so that containment is no longer an issue.
Realistically, we need to be aware that the population growth of the mid east, the decline in Europe all point to one thing. The rise of the middle east as a power. It is in our best interests to own up to the mistakes of the past, and realise that the alternative is terrorism, and more likely all out war for the future.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Capt p we as a nation are not terrorfied,I have to think we can at least do as well as Israel.
I sure hope so. Regarding the Left that has lost their moral compass, I couldn't agree more.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The real question this article brings is this: should we be afraid of arabs?
To me that's a good question because my opinion is that most terrorists are in fact arabs. So....should we be afraid of them? Me I dont know.
yeah, just like the british should be afraid of all irish incase they are IRA. :rolleyes:
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bodhi thanks you have really gotten me in trouble with my wife ,I should be going but I must respond.
I agree it is good you have read these books at least you care.There are no more to join the ranks as they joined the day they were born.There are no more martyrs as they have benn martyrs since the days of Abraham.[remember there is always the exception to the rule] As you say the 1800s were different but 1 thing isnt...the reason for all this...their religion...doing the same thing would bring the same results. Because of oil, money and the ability to buy weapons they have a loud voice....they also have a choice...of good and evil.Because of their religion they have chosen evil,no different than nazism or communism in fact worse,The former wanted to rule you the latter wants to kill you.We cannot help them the majority dont want it and they could buy it.We cant listen to them as long as they teach babies to kill babies will bombs,and we cant change that.They do not have to be contained that is not our need,because of how fanatic they are we must destory them to the point they give in for a while.Thru out history from the olden days to now when that happened and it did a lot they stopped for a while.It does no good to live in the past,to beat our selves up or feel guilty for past mistakes,us or them,that is human life and it will continue for ever.The middle east is and will be a power just like greece.rome,russia ,germany,etc.as in the 1900s we will have to stop them or die,that is our choice,yours,nashes,mine,xtoronto everyones,no different than before or in the future.do we have the will? Last thing...ever wonder why Israel has not been destoryed at the beggining to now,why russia and others have been defeated in afganistan but it was a cake walk in comparsion for us give it some thought.
respectfully demaw
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I read this and it all started to get blurry... a woman got on a plane with 14 Syrians. They were acting strangely. She got her underwear in a bunch and contacted the authorities. Upon completion of her debriefing, they found nothing and in fact, the men were musicians.
Is that about it?
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They key is in that suspicious McDonald's bag.
McDonald's bag.
Think about it.
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Ya know... we've never bombed a country that has a McDonald's restaurant. ;)
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now we're gettin' somewhere. :D
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oh gees, no sandman that is not it, but ya know just keep believing that ok,please keep believing that.man , i have been in here for a week i got to stop before i join the arabs
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So... what's the point?
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After 9/11 I'd be very nervous if 14 middle easterners began acting suspicous on my plane as I suspect would everyone here.
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Sandman point.
it was in response to your blurry statement.....take a look at your picture at the side of your posts.Ya now if you dont wake up you might find yourself on the bottom with an arab on top worshiping allah.If you dont get that u never will.
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I will not live in fear.
I refuse.
If this gets me killed, then by all means, feel free to laugh over my grave.
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What actually struck me about the article was the whole docile reaction of the people who seemed convinced that they were about to die.
People silently crying here, saying prayers over there.
You'd think after the lessons of 9/11 that someone, sufficiently concerned, would pipe up and say "DUDES - Yer freakin' my wife right the shreck OUT! What's going on?"
Prolly woulda got an answer like "Oh, you mean the frequent bathroom visits?"
"Yes" says husband.
"McRibs".
"Ah"
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Sand man ,show me where anywhere i have ever said we should live in fear i never have.Iron or any of us have never said that.I fear the bite of a black widow but i do not live in fear of the black widow.The bravest of humans have always said only fools never fear.
nash, i submit to you that people with the veiw point u have,have muddied the waters enough that many people areso undecided there for immoble.respectfully demaw
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Originally posted by Sandman
I will not live in fear.
I refuse.
If this gets me killed, then by all means, feel free to laugh over my grave.
Had you been on that plane and observed this suspicous activity would you have stood up and demanded to know what was going on? If not, why not?
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Originally posted by demaw1
nash, i submit to you that people with the veiw point u have,have muddied the waters enough that many people areso undecided there for immoble
High praise indeed!
Let me ask you this though....
What exactly does "mobile" look like, in a real tangible sense?
You said earlier that we must choose between life and death. What exactly does one do differently (you, for example) after picking "life"?
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Nash... I do what millions before me have done.
1.After considered thought,if I am young I join one of the services as they are the front line.If i am well educated and can research or teach something needed I do that.
I do not stab my fellow citizens in the back or commit treason
If all i can do to support my country is mend socks i do that.
I realize if we are at war or our troops are in harms way the time for debate is over.
Yet i do not stick my head in the sand,I only realize that debate is for after the war then go to it.
If a wrong is done I try to be part of the solution not part of the problem.
If I am bed ridden I will pray for out troops and wisdom for our leaders. and the strength to fight evil no matter where it is.
Mobile has 2 meaning. In regards to the plane I would stick close to the guy nearest the cockpit I would follow him everywhere.If something happened and no one helped me we were all dead anyway hopefully I could at least administer a bloody nose.
A lie can be told enough times that people cant tell between the lie and the truth,therefore are unable to decern evil and are immobile.There is no truth in f.9/11 but many people see it and the seeds of doubt are sown . The masses can then rise up cause havoc re[germany]
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Originally posted by demaw1
pissed off terriost...
Jayclark...
This goverment did nothing and I repeat nothing to piss off the terrorist.We had all better get it through our heads that these people hate us because of there religion and beliefs.It is the murderers fault he/she kills not the victims.They are taught from babies to hate and kill ,they are taught that here much less over there.I wish the left would wake up but I do believe it is to late.Who played spidermans girl,kirstan duncan I think.She was on a talk show few days ago and was asked what she would do if she could be spiderman for a day.Her replay?If I could have the powers of spiderman for a day I would kill bush....
o. c. register go find it yourself if u want to read it it aint hard.
This is so close to truth, every member of every race should read this.
<> demaw.
Karaya
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Originally posted by demaw1
pissed off terriost...
Jayclark...
This goverment did nothing and I repeat nothing to piss off the terrorist.We had all better get it through our heads that these people hate us because of there religion and beliefs.It is the murderers fault he/she kills not the victims.They are taught from babies to hate and kill ,they are taught that here much less over there.I wish the left would wake up but I do believe it is to late.Who played spidermans girl,kirstan duncan I think.She was on a talk show few days ago and was asked what she would do if she could be spiderman for a day.Her replay?If I could have the powers of spiderman for a day I would kill bush....
o. c. register go find it yourself if u want to read it it aint hard.
It's a load of crap.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I will not live in fear.
I refuse.
If this gets me killed, then by all means, feel free to laugh over my grave.
:aok
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Ok sandman pick it apart I dare ya.Show the lies in what I said,go ahead i want you to .Dont care what you use or how you do it just do it.
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Bodhi, I gotta take you up on your original point. The land originally given to Israel in 1947 was not "taken" from the palestinians, it wsa land that had been bought and settled by a majority of Jewish settlers dating back to the 19th century. The jews that had lived there prior to 1947 had been victim of the same things we see today, and during WWII the palestinian "leadership" was a close ally of Nazi Germany (makes you wonder what would have happened if Germany won the war). Revisionist history must not be allowed to be seen as the truth. One cannot work backwards in history, you have to work foreward. I'm sick of the anti-Israeli stuff I hear every day and I almost break my TV or cpu screen when I see how misinformed the media is over the history of the region and Israel. Ever since it was granted statehood, the single goal of the Arab world has been not just the destruction of the state itself, but the "annihilation" of its inhabitants, and that is a quote directly from Nasser's mouth about the war started over the Suez. Seek the truth, my brothers.
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UN General Assy Resolution 181
(http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png)
(http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/9/97/UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png )
The Arab leadership opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000).
They criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel. The Jews had been offered 55% percent of the land when they only owned 7%. Although it should be noted that much of the land area was not actually owned by anyone (Jewish or Arab) -- it was desert under the control of the British Mandate.
The population for the proposed Jewish State would be 498,000 Jews and 325,000 non-Jews. The population for the proposed Arab State would be 807,000 non-Jews and 10,000 Jews. The population for the proposed International Zone would be 105,000 non-Jews and 100,000 Jews.
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Stang re media
Do not kid your self, the media is not misinformed,they know the truth but truth is not part of their agenda.