Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on July 21, 2004, 02:09:40 PM
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The CT regulars (non-vocal majority) use the arena as an escape from the gameplay of the main arena. We at the CT enjoy this atmosphere where strategy and dogfights are important and not personal rankings.
Lately, I see a lot of guys landing two kills, fly, then land two kills, etc. While I don't mind guys landing to take a break, landing to score kills for the sake of scoring them is not what the Combat Theatre is about. Working hard to earn a #1 rank should not be the result of MA typing scoring, but of the time and effort that you put into the theatre.
What I'm trying to get at is that incentive to fly the CT should not be based on the ability to get a high ranking, it should be about the immersion of flying a historical scenario.
I'd like to make the CT the best of what Aces High has to offer, away from the P-51/NIK-2/Spitfire/La-7 hordes in the MA.
What would you guys think about disabling ranking in the CT? Maybe develop a code of ethics for flying into the CT just like in Fighter Ace (no shooting smoking/flaming aircraft). Am I the only one who is aware of this?
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What is non-historical about landing kills? Should people fly till they die?
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Yea right, that'll happen. Take pictures of the formations of pigs flying overhead when it does, else nobody will believe you.
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As odd as it may sound, there are some of us who try to land kills or just land a sortie for a sense of accomplishment, with no mind or concern for rankings. I for one don't give a rats arse about rankings.
There is a group of CT regulars that will still strive to land sorties with or without kills, no matter.
Rankings? Killem for all I care, but don't imply that we should fly till we die (if that is what you are saying). Now that is MA mentality imo.
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This is reason that when I fish, I land the animal and remove the hook myself. If I intend to keep the animal into the well it goes. If I release it I held it. It gives me the sense of accomplishment. So it is when I land my kills rare though it may be. Kill or leave the rank system I care not either way.
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This may be more due to the limited ammo in this setup. I have never run out of shells faster than f4f vs zero.
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Remove the rank system if you like but stop trying to police behaviours - the last thing I want to see is a code of 'political correctness' being shoved in my face all the time. I get enough of that in the real world. I like to think that I am a sportsman and a fair player, but be that as it may, as long as I pay for the privilege, I'll fly in the CT as I please, and so may everyone else as far as I'm concerned.
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I’d be fine with disabling the CT ranks. I think it would cut down on some whining.
I would, however, like the personal and arena “Stats” to remain available though (the ability to check “75 Kills of 109F-4”, 52 Deaths by 109F-4, etc.).
Leave the channel 1 announcements: SYSTEM: JoeBlow landed 5 kills in a A6M-2.
I hate the idea of developing a code of ethics; no shooting chutes, vulching, HOing, etc. It would lead to whines like you can’t imagine! Any shot in front of 9:00 and 3:00 would be called a HO. Next thing you know folks would be demanding that no airplane can engage another at a lower altitude or E-state. They’l say “no engaging any two aircraft already in a 1:1.”
As far as I’m concerned, here are the rules:
1. Don’t mess with the game codes (hard core cheating).
2. Don’t intentionally mess up your connect to induce warps, etc.
3. No swearing, written or oral (and no personal RL threats).
4. Try not to be a whiner and try not to tell everyone else what to do.
Any other code of ethics should be self imposed: If you don’t’ think it’s cool to shoot at chutes, then don’t. If you do, then do. Etc. If you are frustrated that others aren’t playing by your rules, see rule 4 above.
Here’s the big thing that no one in this game seams to get: We all play this game for different reasons. We think that we know how everyone should play and we all expect that everyone else should have to play by the rules and style that we think is best. People who want everyone in the arena to play to their liking have one thing in common; they take this GAME way too seriously! Realize that some folks have reasons for playing that are very different than your own.
Some folks want to become immersed in history, some just want to survive, some want a laugh, some have something to prove to everyone, and some have something to prove to themselves, some want a challenge, some want to play a game, some want to “make a difference”, some want to unleash some real life frustrations, some just want to see stuff explode, some want to be part of a team, some want to be loners, some want to beat the odds, some want to gangbang, (we could go on here…). A great many want to do several of these things at once, or perhaps at different times. I can honestly say that I am, or have been, driven by each of the things that I listed above. I can also say that after 8 years of flight simming, I’m mostly still in it for yucks. A lot of people have tried to tell me how I should play this game over the years, but there is one thing that I can guarantee: I have more fun than they do and I am less frustrated than they are.
Remember: no one knows how to let eskimo have fun like eskimo.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
The CT regulars (non-vocal majority) use the arena as an escape from the gameplay of the main arena
How do you know this? How do you know that you are speaking for the silent majority?
I like the CT over the MA because I like planes to be historically matched. (If I fly a blue plane, I want to shoot at Jap planes only, etc.)
eskimo
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You're concerned about adding limited lives one day of the week yet you look to implement something like this? What is going on in the heads of this CT staff???
Maybe instead of implementing rules to get the players to create an enviroment that we all desire in the CT, maybe try putting a little time into creating an enviroment that brings out the player style that the majority is looking for in the CT.
You are almost never in the CT so to even dictate what the CT is like is a squealing joke. Crawl back into your hole, or better get the hell out of it and let somebody that wants to do the job do it right.
Stop treating the sypmtoms and get to the root of the problem-The complete lack of interaction and/or leadership of the CT staff.
How many more posts like this are we going to endure before we get rid of these idioits.
VOTE BUG!!
:aok
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Guys, let me clarify a few items
a) My 'landing kills' comment was just an example of how players are in the CT treating it like the MA. It's just an example that has been taken for gospel on how the CT is being used. In reality, we have a lot of guys who fly the CT for enjoyment regardless of how it's played.
b) This topic was created on how to improve gameplay, not squash unliked behavoiurs/police the state. That's why I asked. It's not an invitation to bash the CT staff.
c) And Bug, please email me at mister_fork@hitechcreations - I'd like to chat with you off-line please.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
How do you know this? How do you know that you are speaking for the silent majority?
I like the CT over the MA because I like planes to be historically matched. (If I fly a blue plane, I want to shoot at Jap planes only, etc.)
eskimo
With over 190 hours in the CT, I think I know (and you too) how the arena works. I've also been involved in gaming communities for over 8 years now in managerial/forum admin roles. There are well over 500 registered CT fliers yet only a handful of the pilots post here in the CT forum.
It's a hard balancing act trying to listen to opinions that make sense yet trying not to let the vocal minority make changes the general population don't want. It's why we often ask questions to the members, then use experience and commen sense on setups. Not an easy job but we rely on the veterans like yourself for help in making our decisions eskimo. :aok
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Guys, let me clarify a few items
It's not an invitation to bash the CT staff.
Well, yes it was an invitation and your lack of ability to understand that is my problem, more so than the actual comments made.
Email sent.
Vote Bug:aok
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I think I will have to agree a lot with eskimo. I do hope the CT (ingame) scoring gets booted as well as ch1. I wouldnt mind if HTC went to "Kill of xx by xx..." instead of; "....xx landed xx kills". I for one try my hardest not to die. I fly many sorties and land empty handed a lot. I normaly only vulch when attacking a field for capture...not for score whoring. Take off from a capped field, suffer getting vulched. WANT A FAIR FIGHT???GO THE THE FUGGING DA :rolleyes: I fight when I know I can kill, I disenguage when I'm not sure I can. I am not here to entertain, Im here to kill what I know I can kill and RTB.
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you pay $15 a month and you can those $15 a month how ever you want to. You whine about "No shooting chutes tard." im going to make it my personally goal to shoot you in a chute when ever possible BECAUSE IT IS MY $15 NOT YOUR'S MINE DAMN ITAND I SPEND IT HOW I WANT TO.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
im going to make it my personally goal to shoot you in a chute when ever possible BECAUSE IT IS MY $15 NOT YOUR'S MINE DAMN ITAND I SPEND IT HOW I WANT TO.
Amen to that brother, I feel the love. Do the thing theys hate and force them to organize and work as a team to overcome. Catering to them is a weakness. ;)
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Three things that keep me out of the CT...
Funky dar settings
Funky Icon setings
And Spit hatred...as if it's my fault your intercepter of choice sucks.
But what the hell; you girls have fun any way you can; I'll carry ojn knowing which planes carried the LW to victory; and which plane put a stop to it.
(who needs a chog anyway?
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Don't think that some things are in place to keep people, that may be similiar to you, out on purpose.
Two MAs would be redundant.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
With over 190 hours in the CT, I think I know (and you too) how the arena works.
Then stop posting stupid crap, bro. :D
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Originally posted by Seeker
Three things that keep me out of the CT...
And what keeps you in the CT forum? :lol
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ZIIINNNGGG! :D
Aw man I'm bored....
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Originally posted by TheBug
Amen to that brother, I feel the love. Do the thing theys hate and force them to organize and work as a team to overcome. Catering to them is a weakness. ;)
There ya go!! :D
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Originally posted by DJ111
ZIIINNNGGG! :D
Aw man I'm bored....
j00 ® TĄ®ÐlinG!!!11!!!!1!!11!
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STFU ub3r n3wb13!!!!!111
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
With over 190 hours in the CT, I think I know (and you too) how the arena works.
Heh heh. Geez, Fork, I thought you were watching the last time I said something like this. Same reaction as I got, with a little extra vitriol from Bug.
In retrospect, and trying my hardest to be philosophical, I think that the CT regulars tend to be schizos. That is to say, we react violently when anyone tries to regulate our behavior, yet we all share the same fundamental values - unconsciously, perhaps. Few of us vulch (except for Eskimo, and we make allowance for him because it's probably a scar resulting from a misspent youth), few of us shoot chutes (few of us bail for that matter), most of us avoid ganging, and there aren't many (any?) chest-pounders telling the rest of us how talented they are. Tell us to do it, and we'll bite you. But leave us alone, and we do it anyway.
I've noticed an influx of new faces here, too. They will be absorbed.
(Pats Fork on back, looks over shoulder at the crowd) As for the rest of you turkeys who piled onto Fork: Give the boy credit for being innovative. I am particularly surprised by Bug, whose refrain has been that all staff are the same. Fork has tried a lot of new things, and this is one of them.
(makes rude gesture) (twice)
- oldman
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Originally posted by Seeker
Three things that keep me out of the CT...
Funky dar settings
Funky Icon setings
And Spit hatred...as if it's my fault your intercepter of choice sucks.
But what the hell; you girls have fun any way you can; I'll carry ojn knowing which planes carried the LW to victory; and which plane put a stop to it.
(who needs a chog anyway?
Perfidious Albion....when was the last time you even visited the CT? Or stopped by to dance on a wet floor and have a beer with the REST of your friends, for that matter?
As for your twisted and egocentric view of history: The Hurricane stopped the Luftwaffe, as any adult hobbyist knows. The P47 and the P51 beat down the Luftwaffe and won air superiority over Europe, as any high school student knows. The Spitfire lacked the range to accomplish anything substantial, but it proved that if you're good looking, you can be famous...as all Valley Girls know.
- oldman
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Here’s the big thing that no one in this game seams to get: We all play this game for different reasons. We think that we know how everyone should play and we all expect that everyone else should have to play by the rules and style that we think is best. People who want everyone in the arena to play to their liking have one thing in common; they take this GAME way too seriously! Realize that some folks have reasons for playing that are very different than your own.
Some folks want to become immersed in history, some just want to survive, some want a laugh, some have something to prove to everyone, and some have something to prove to themselves, some want a challenge, some want to play a game, some want to “make a difference”, some want to unleash some real life frustrations, some just want to see stuff explode, some want to be part of a team, some want to be loners, some want to beat the odds, some want to gangbang, (we could go on here…). A great many want to do several of these things at once, or perhaps at different times. I can honestly say that I am, or have been, driven by each of the things that I listed above. I can also say that after 8 years of flight simming, I’m mostly still in it for yucks. A lot of people have tried to tell me how I should play this game over the years, but there is one thing that I can guarantee: I have more fun than they do and I am less frustrated than they are.
Remember: no one knows how to let eskimo have fun like eskimo.
I have never heard it said better :aok
...sorry, I was bored also
Continue.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(Pats Fork on back, looks over shoulder at the crowd) As for the rest of you turkeys who piled onto Fork: Give the boy credit for being innovative. I am particularly surprised by Bug, whose refrain has been that all staff are the same. Fork has tried a lot of new things, and this is one of them.
(makes rude gesture) (twice)
- oldman
New doesn't mean innovative, this silly idea is just more of the same BS to expect from an out of touch CT staff.
Spare me your gestures, little boy.
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I'm just not sure what Fork is asking for. I up every sortie with the intent of landing it; if my plane is damaged I break combat and head for home, if my ammo or fuel is low I head for the barn too. I would guess this attitude isn't very common in the MA.
I occasionally look at my stats to get a feel for how I'm doing in various planes but never been interested in ranks.
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I like Eskimo2's philosophy, bravo!
And on the 2-kill message, isn't that the minimum number rating an announcement? And isn't that about the most that average pilots can get with limited ammo and fuel?
And aren't pilots expected to try to land and survive in this most realistic arena?
I haven't looked at rank for a long time because I don't care about rank (yeah, I know, good thing because my scores are not high, to put it tactfully).
I just fly for max enjoyment each sortie and hopefully to learn something new and keep improving, however slowly. The fewer rules the better -- Eskimo2's four rules about sum it up.
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I'd like to make a comment, with a disclaimer.
The disclaimer is that I don't currently fly the CT (no sub) but I did, for a while, and enjoyed it. So I may be out of touch with the times.
That being said, I'd like to say two things.
1) The reaction against Fork has been unnecessarily harsh. He did not invite this type of vehemence in his original post. I'm somewhat appalled at the insta-flame (TM) that resulted.
2) Fork, I think you have the wrong idea. You have good intentions, perhaps, but I think you confuse landing kills with being petty, and immature. What is the difference between landing 2 kills, landing no kills, and landing 10 kills? Simple: It's the message. Nothing more, nothing less. It does not mean anything related to rank mongering is happening (read all the responses, I agree. We land to land. We have our reasons. Rank is rarely one of them).
So despite the possible good intentions I would like to suggest you take no action of the like you have recommended.
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how come a week of pto planesets always bring the strangest threads in CT? :)
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Too much salt water when people go in the drink.
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malaria
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worms?
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cause the axis are limited to one fighter while the allies have 2x as much.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
cause the axis are limited to one fighter while the allies have 2x as much.
:rolleyes:
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I keep telling the CT staff to enable the "Claude" for early setups ... but nooooooooo.
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Originally posted by 1Duke1
:rolleyes:
hell id would not care if the allies had lghey7's as long as we get the same number of fighters as they do.
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hell id would not care if the allies had lghey7's as long as we get the same number of fighters as they do.
So if Allies had the '51D,Tiffie, and the Yak9U ,and Axis had the 202,A6M2, and the 109E. Would you think that fair?
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(makes rude gesture) (twice)
- oldman
Pretty bold words from a kill landing score potato like you. :)
For those who weren't there, Oldman landed 2 kills the other night (must have been an accident).
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
What would you guys think about disabling ranking in the CT? Maybe develop a code of ethics for flying into the CT just like in Fighter Ace (no shooting smoking/flaming aircraft). Am I the only one who is aware of this?
I'm not a regular in the CT anymore, although for better than a year I was. When I first started playing in the CT there was a "code" of ethics, albeit unwritten, that was followed by just about all of the regular players. I left when most of the "newer" regular players completely disregarded that code of ethics and made the arena a much less pleasant place to play. The few times I've been back in the CT recently I've seen a resurgence of the kind of player interaction that first attracted me to the arena.
Having said that I think anyone trying to "legislate" a moral standard in the CT beyond a game-wide, HTC generated ROC is asking for trouble. The effort needed to enforce that standard will be considerable and the effort will be counter productive - the results won't be pretty.
Landing 2-kill flights a problem? I don't think so. Given HTC's scoring/ranking method I hardly think this can be considered "score-whoring". Anyone landing any kills is a cause for celebration, or should be. Penalizing someone for achieving multiple, consecutive flights of 2 kills isn't going to get you what you're looking for. As for not displaying player ranks, other than using that as a method for differentiating the CT from the MA I don't see any purpose in it. Those who care about ranks will be annoyed that they aren't displayed and those who don't care about ranks, won't care that ranks aren't displayed.
If you want to change the general attitude in the CT pull the heavy-hitters aside and talk to them and figure out a 'standard' set of behaviours to look down on, and then put that into effect during game-play in the arena. Peer pressure works better, faster and with less effort than anything else that I know of.
Cheers,
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Originally posted by Grits
For those who weren't there, Oldman landed 2 kills the other night (must have been an accident).
It was shock-and-awe night in the CT.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Slash27
hell id would not care if the allies had lghey7's as long as we get the same number of fighters as they do.
So if Allies had the '51D,Tiffie, and the Yak9U ,and Axis had the 202,A6M2, and the 109E. Would you think that fair?
perfect overshoot machine.
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Originally posted by Grits
Pretty bold words from a kill landing score potato like you. :)
For those who weren't there, Oldman landed 2 kills the other night (must have been an accident).
I was one of those kills. He nailed me fair and square in a beautiful chandelle that I simply could not dodge. Good flying OM. I'm glad it was you!
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I don't think you can regulate the CT nor do I think it's needed. The core people that fly the CT regularly do maintain a good code of ethics for the most part. We fly the CT for a reason, it's historical. The CM's give us historical planesets with the planes available in that time period. I know there's always debate on that, but they try. You can't always have the best plane if you choose to fly a certain side. It forces you to find a tactic that works. The people that just pop in on the way to the MA where they fly regularly are going to fly the way they do in the MA. Pick the side that has the best plane and do what ever to get kills. It's their $15.
Since the change over to AH2, the CT was been in a lull. We're using MA maps, there's still lots of bugs(ctd's, etc.) and we've lost people because of hardware or just plain frustration. A lot of us are a bit pissy about it. Hopefully they'll get these issues resolved soon.
I say keep things as they are with the exception that Channel 1 should be disabled. Personally I like landing kills as I think we all do. Nothing better than when you or a squadie lands kills and the "wtg's" go around, even from your opponents. Which can still be done with the .S SALUTE command.
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Yeah, I know, its kind of an inside joke between me and Oldman. Neither of us RTB very often since we are usually at the bottom of the pile in furballs and we both fly right into clouds of enemies, its our squad SOP. I dont mean this in any way as an insult, but we are sort of the antithesis of Eskimo.
Last night for example, Oldman was flying Allied, and I was flying Axis. Yet when I looked at the dar, I was fighting 3 v1 all by myself and he was 4-5 v 1 by himself. I had to laugh when I saw that.
Oldman is even more a "purist" than I am, so I always kid him about either landing kills or even RTB'n at all even though I'm more guilty of it than him.
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Disable everything but the check six message. The bufferbar is soooooo passe'. :D
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Fork,
http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/Fork.wav (http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/Fork.wav)
TheBug,
http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/TheThug.wav (http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/TheThug.wav)
P6EHawk
http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/SickHawk.wav (http://home.earthlink.net/~cfb3/SickHawk.wav)
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:rofl