Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on July 22, 2004, 11:10:44 AM
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By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer
NEW YORK - Fervently anti-war, Carlos Delgado quietly carried out his personal protest this season, refusing to stand when "God Bless America" was played at ballparks across the majors.
Most fans never saw him disappearing up the dugout tunnel or staying on the bench. And even teammates who disagreed with the Toronto slugger's political stance accepted his right to call the United States' invasion of Iraq (news - web sites) "the stupidest war ever."
This week, though, a lot more people noticed.
The Blue Jays played at Yankee Stadium for the first time this year on Wednesday night. It's the only park in the majors where "God Bless America" has been played every game since the Sept. 11 attacks, a fiercely patriotic place where active military members are still admitted free.
"I don't think that will be received too well," Yankees manager Joe Torre predicted Wednesday before the opener of the two-game series. "Just when Bob Sheppard starts announcing 'God Bless America,' they start applauding. If you do call attention to that, it won't be popular."
It sure wasn't.
Delgado was greeted with scattered boos each time he batted — no telling whether that was related to his off-the-field opinions, or his status as an opposing star.
But there were brief chants of "USA! USA!" when he lined out in the top of the seventh. During a moment of silence before Kate Smith's rendition of "God Bless America" was played during the seventh-inning stretch, derisive shouts were made in his direction.
True to form, Delgado was nowhere to be seen. He left the dugout when the last out was made in the top of the seventh, and headed to the clubhouse, and was removed from the game with the Blue Jays trailing by seven runs.
Delgado politely declined to elaborate before Wednesday night's game, though he said he stood by his previous comments. After the 10-3 loss, he deferred when asked about his remarks and the crowd reaction.
"No, I will not talk about it. Is that OK? Thank you," he said.
While big leaguers usually come to the top step of the dugout or on to the field to stand in silence during "God Bless America," Delgado does not make a public show of his stance.
In fact, until the first baseman spoke about the issue in early July to the Toronto Star, many people were not aware of how strongly he felt.
"It's a very terrible thing that happened on Sept. 11. It's (also) a terrible thing that happened in Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Iraq," Delgado said at the time. "I just feel so sad for the families that lost relatives and loved ones in the war.
"But I think it's the stupidest war ever. Who are you fighting against? You're just getting ambushed now. We have more people dead now after the war than during the war," he said. "I don't support what they do. It's just stupid."
Delgado, from Puerto Rico, also opposed the U.S. military's longtime use of the Puerto Rican island of Vieques for weapons testing.
Delgado's opinion became more well known to New York fans in a column in The New York Times on Wednesday. In it, he said, "It takes a man to stand up for what he believes."
"I am not pro-war; I'm anti-war," he said. "I'm for peace."
Commissioner Bud Selig said he understood Delgado's position and that it was a sensitive subject. Selig said he'd like to talk to the Blue Jays' franchise leader in home runs and RBIs about the issue.
Other athletes have taken similar approaches.
NBA guard Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf of the Denver Nuggets (news) would not stand for the national anthem during the 1995-96 season, which led to an indefinite suspension that was lifted two days later.
Division III basketball player Toni Smith of the Manhattanville women's team attracted attention for refusing to face the flag during the national anthem in the 2002-03 season.
Most ballparks generally play "God Bless America" on Sunday and holidays, but the Yankees do it at every game. It comes on after Sheppard, the stadium's longtime public-address announcer, reads a remembrance to the people serving in the military.
There was a chance during this series, Delgado realized, that he might make the final out in the top of the seventh and be on the field when the tribute begins.
"This is my personal feeling. I don't want to draw attention to myself or go out of my way to protest," Delgado told the Times. "If I make the last out of the seventh inning, I'll stand there. But I'd rather be in the dugout."
Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said the team has not gotten any reaction from fans about Delgado's position. Team president Paul Godfrey has said he respects Delgado's opinion but opposes his political view.
Standing in the box seats, Yankees fan Barry Phillips disagreed with Delgado, but said he would not boo him.
"I think it's totally disrespectful," he said shortly before gametime. "It's a slap directly in my face, as a New Yorker and an American."
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Agree with him, disagree with him, it doesn't matter. The fact that he has the right to protest these things is one of the things that make this country so great. Every time a dirty hippy burns a flag, he's accidentally making a statement about how great this country is because he has that right. Every time a handsomehunk skin head marches with his Aryan brotherhood friends, our freedoms are reinforced just a little bit more because he's allowed to do that.
The things that make our country so great don't happen when everyone agrees with each other, it's the things that everyone hates, because that's the proof that we're more then talkers. Having actual freedom means more then everyone just getting along, and as such, I respect his opinion to disagree with our national policy.
That said, he's still a jerk whom I disagree with, but damnit, it's jerks like that that remind me why I love this country.
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Ya hes a horrible human being.
another opinion (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5482059/)
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Not like he stood up and ran his mouth in front of the crowd,
he was very respectful about his stand imo.
But hes still stoopid tho :lol
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Agree with him, disagree with him, it doesn't matter. The fact that he has the right to protest these things is one of the things that make this country so great. Every time a dirty hippy burns a flag, he's accidentally making a statement about how great this country is because he has that right. Every time a handsomehunk skin head marches with his Aryan brotherhood friends, our freedoms are reinforced just a little bit more because he's allowed to do that.
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That's a good bit of writing there.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Not like he stood up and ran his mouth in front of the crowd,
he was very respectful about his stand imo.
I agree
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He should go back to mexico... :D
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Seems to me he's being quite respectfull in spite of his beliefs. He's not making a show of his protest, even when questioned on it after a game.
It's also important to remember this is not "The Star Spangled Banner" at the beginning of the game. This is MLB's attempt to show they are America's sport by being even more patriotic. I could see where that would turn the stomach of someone that didn't agree with what was going on.
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I don't see a problem with what he did/didn't do.
Would you stand up and salute a country you didn't believe was doing things right?
I wouldn't!
He's even doing it quietly so as not to offend people. Good for him.
I think what he is doing is a hell of a lot better then people like Linda Ronstadt who force their views on you.
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75% of all Americans, never knew the words to God Bless America, BEFORE 9/11. He didn't do anything wrong.
Karaya
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he's a *******, but IMO not for protesting the war but the way he did it.
he just reinforced the pinheaded opinion that those who are against the war are against America.
most who are against this was are very pro-America and resent the hi-jacking of our military for this administrations personal agenda.
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I am glad he is standing by his beliefs, I have no problem with him doing it, I aslo dont have a problem if the club he is in cans him for lost ticket sales.
I wish him the best.
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I gota agree, he has every right to do what he is doing and he is doing it in a pretty mild way.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
he just reinforced the pinheaded opinion that those who are against the war are against America.
Maybe this is the only way he could think of to be true to himself and in a way that is least offensive. Again his actions don't imply that he hates America.
I can remember another person who loved America but who vociferously opposed the US involvement in the Vietnam war--John Lennon. The US government kept him out of the states for years. When he finally was allowed to live in NYC it was at a time when the city was facing financial crisis. It was he who purchased the bullet proof vests for the entire NYC police department just prior to his murder in the fall of 1980.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
It was he who purchased the bullet proof vests for the entire NYC police department just prior to his murder in the fall of 1980.
I've never heard this.
Whats your source?
Very interesting.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I've never heard this.
Whats your source?
Very interesting.
this is one link I found: John Lennon $100,000. to NYPD for vests (http://www.johnlennon.it/guestbook1.htm)
It's at the very bottom of the page...second to last paragraph...
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I can still remember that dreadful Monday night. I was lying across my bed watching Monday Night Football with Howard Cosell doing the play by play...then all of a sudden ... it goes quiet. The strange thing was that the play was going on, but no commentary. Then after a very long silence Howard comes across and breaks the news of John's murder, expressing the opinion that he is not expected to survive. I remember seeing the officers who drove him to the hospital both failing to fight back tears as they described him dying in the back of the cruiser. One of those officers mentioned the irony of him being murdered after purchasing the NYPD with the new 'life-saving' vests.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
Maybe this is the only way he could think of to be true to himself and in a way that is least offensive. Again his actions don't imply that he hates America.
You're misreading capt. apathy's sentence if I'm reading yours correctly. He's calling the pinheaded opinion of those that think that if you're against the war, you're against America. He wasn't saying that about Carlos Delgado.
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cc ... thank you SaburoS
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Pretty risky/stupid what he did. But, he should be glad to be in a country where he can do something like that.
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I don't see a problem with him leaving the dug out. If he doesn't want to participate, he doesn't have to.
Now if he were to stand and turn his back on everyone else or do some other stupid protest I would have a problem with it. He is in his place of employment, not some streetcorner protest rally.
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It all makes sense now. Xtoronto is Carlos Delgado.
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Stop worshipping a flag and this would not be an issue. Its a song thats it. Nothing more nothing less. Who cares if someone walks off or doesnt stand during the singing of "god bless america". Why should god only bless america? What about the rest of the world. Christians are such hypocrits.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Why should god only bless america? What about the rest of the world. Christians are such hypocrits.
LOL the song does not say God bless only America
Not all christians are hypocrites, and remember, you have to be smaller than what you hide behind.
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I've got nothing against the song, but come on, we're talking baseball here. They introduced GBA during the seventh inning at a specific time and for specific reasons. It's being used as a call to war (and as Kate will tell you,this ain't the first time). No need to be an ass, but no need to be a hypocrite either and stand in support of a war you don't believe in.
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then hes a hypocrite. hes making millions in the us and paying half of that in taxes a decent percentage of which go to finance the war hes so opposed to. he should go play baseball in japan if he feels so strongly about it. hes bought more bullets that wound up killing insurgents wait i mean innocent civilians firing wedding shots down the street at marines than your average baseball fan. im surprised moveon.org hasnt put him on the wanted list.
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Originally posted by jamusta
Stop worshipping a flag and this would not be an issue. Its a song thats it. Nothing more nothing less. Who cares if someone walks off or doesnt stand during the singing of "god bless america". Why should god only bless america? What about the rest of the world. Christians are such hypocrits.
youre right. nationality dont mean **** and us is only nation thats so blind. put on a canadian sweatshirt and go work construction in chechnya for a year. when you get snatched just explain to them that youre above the whole "nationality matters" thing. the flag represents alot of things that are good and if you cant pay two minutes of respect then youre the one who has the issues. and its got nothing to do with god or christians.
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Originally posted by anonymous
then hes a hypocrite. hes making millions in the us and paying half of that in taxes a decent percentage of which go to finance the war hes so opposed to. he should go play baseball in japan if he feels so strongly about it. hes bought more bullets that wound up killing insurgents wait i mean innocent civilians firing wedding shots down the street at marines than your average baseball fan. im surprised moveon.org hasnt put him on the wanted list.
he plays for TORONTO BLUE JAYS -- they pay his salary and Toronto is NOT in the US:rolleyes:
....someone should put you on the most stupid list!
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Originally posted by jamusta
Stop worshipping a flag and this would not be an issue. Its a song thats it. Nothing more nothing less. Who cares if someone walks off or doesnt stand during the singing of "god bless america". Why should god only bless america? What about the rest of the world. Christians are such hypocrits.
reminds me of the prayer scene in 'We Where Soldiers'-
"we know are enemies are also praying Lord, and we ask you to ignore their heathen prayers and help us send them straight to hell" (or something very close to that)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
It all makes sense now. Xtoronto is Carlos Delgado.
Funked1 I wish that were true...he's earning $20M this year!
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
he plays for TORONTO BLUE JAYS -- they pay his salary and Toronto is NOT in the US:rolleyes:
....someone should put you on the most stupid list!
didnt know that. not a baseball fan. if that makes me stupid in yer book i just have to try and live with the consequences. does invalidate my point about the money tho. i still think hes a jerkoff. the us flag represents more than us presence in iraq. and if i was a pro sports player id follow the customs of any foreign nation that i was a guest of.
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Originally posted by anonymous
didnt know that. not a baseball fan. if that makes me stupid in yer book i just have to try and live with the consequences. does invalidate my point about the money tho. i still think hes a jerkoff. the us flag represents more than us presence in iraq. and if i was a pro sports player id follow the customs of any foreign nation that i was a guest of.
no consequences from me man! cheers!
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
he plays for TORONTO BLUE JAYS -- they pay his salary and Toronto is NOT in the US:rolleyes:
So he hates the usa so much that he rather play in canada... What a damn liberal wiener, no I mean UN pus$y.. And BTW I make $20 million canadian a year too, most americans do, canadian dollar is like the old italian lira. :p :D
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all canadian pro teams are paid in US currency (MLB, NHL, MBA)
(you righties can't seem to get much correct at all)
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
all canadian pro teams are paid in US currency (MLB, NHL, MBA)
(you righties can't seem to get much correct at all)
im not a righty.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
all canadian pro teams are paid in US currency (MLB, NHL, MBA)
What? Canadian money is no good for them? Arent you ashamed that your glorious canadian hockey teams arent paid in the domestic currency?
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While I might not necessarily agree with his position, I'm impressed with his courage.
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Although I definetly think he should go back to mexico I can think of many worse ways for him to expreess his hatred for this country than he is doing now. :)
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True patriots don't run.
There is nothing more American than dissent.
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god bless america is not the national anthem. I never have and I never will stand when that song is being done.
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Originally posted by Sandman
True patriots don't run.
There is nothing more American than dissent.
id say educated or well informed dissent. screaming about patriot act because your college gf tells you its "like the nazis" is not true dissent.
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Originally posted by Sandman
True patriots don't run.
Clear proof that Micheal Moore is perhaps the greatest American patriot ever..
:D
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That is... "don't run away."
;)