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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 02:09:36 PM

Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 02:09:36 PM
He actually used the word "brang". :D
Title: Re: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 22, 2004, 02:10:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
He actually used the word "brang". :D


He's a Texan! You never been to Texas, boy?! ;)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 02:12:44 PM
Yes.. boy....

But I BROUGHT my own language with me.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: lazs2 on July 22, 2004, 02:16:05 PM
rather hear the word brang than.... "undocumented immigrants"  say.

Any of the PC terms and words are more annoying to me than "brang"

lazs
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 22, 2004, 02:16:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Yes.. boy....

But I BROUGHT my own language with me.


Killer, dude! ;)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 02:17:40 PM
(http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/funny/pics/Bush.jpg)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: slimm50 on July 22, 2004, 02:27:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
(http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/funny/pics/Bush.jpg)

Hey, that's not real. It's been photoshopped. Can't sneak anything past me, boy:lol
Title: Re: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 22, 2004, 02:57:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
He actually used the word "brang". :D


Hey, whatever you need to change the topic of discussion from the actual report which essentially alleviates Bush from 90% of the bogus claims made by the left.

We're not going to talk about that, are we?
Title: Re: Re: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: VOR on July 22, 2004, 04:26:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hey, whatever you need to change the topic of discussion from the actual report which essentially alleviates Bush from 90% of the bogus claims made by the left.

We're not going to talk about that, are we?


The report..mmm'kay...yeah. But..but..but..but..he TALKS FUNNY!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Trell on July 22, 2004, 04:30:11 PM
I dont care how bush talkes  His policies are what is important
Title: Re: Re: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 04:56:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Hey, whatever you need to change the topic of discussion from the actual report which essentially alleviates Bush from 90% of the bogus claims made by the left.

We're not going to talk about that, are we?


Sure we can.... Brang it on!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 05:01:56 PM
LOL@MT
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 05:02:39 PM
Had he been from Arkansas he would have said "brung."
Title: Re: Re: Re: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Saurdaukar on July 22, 2004, 05:18:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Sure we can.... Brang it on!


Ok - that was funny...  :D
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 22, 2004, 06:40:56 PM
Rep. Carolyn Maloney (DN.Y.) said today, "Remember you can't spell 9-11 without 9-1-1."

Since when do we spell with numbers? That is about the dumbest thing that anyone could say, and shows everyone that she is a moron.  Come to think of it, the statement condemns the entire Democratic Party and it's agenda as idiotic.

Wait... on second thought, it's probably not that important, I think I will let it slide.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 06:45:39 PM
Had he been from LA, he most likely would have used ebonics.  What is your point?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 06:59:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Rep. Carolyn Maloney (DN.Y.) said today, "Remember you can't spell 9-11 without 9-1-1."


Nevermind the spelling bit, what the hell was she trying to say?

MT - How did Bush use "brang"?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 07:05:18 PM
Brang is an accented bring.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 07:07:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since when do we spell with numbers? That is about the dumbest thing that anyone could say, and shows everyone that she is a moron.
 


it's called the alphanumeric system...if you had finished high school you would have learned it!

definition  (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/a/alphanumeric.html)

(who's the moron?):lol
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:07:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Brang is an accented bring.


Hmm.... not so bad....

I thought he mighta used "brang" in place of "brought" (ie "brang it with him").

Which I'm sure I've prolly done a few times also.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:12:30 PM
Reminds me of an article I read in this week's Atlantic magazine about Bush vs Kerry in a debate. Talked a whole bunch about Bush's speaking style.

What stood out was how completely floored the author was when he went back and watched an old tape of a debate with Ann Richards. Appearently it was like watching a completely different guy.

Bush's accent wasn't there, but more significantly Bush spoke eloquently and lucidly. He was so shocked he brought in some kind of personality analyst to watch the tape. This guy too couldn't believe what he was seeing.

All sorts of theories about the transformation followed.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 07:21:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Had he been from LA, he most likely would have used ebonics.  What is your point?


ebonically it would have been "bringed"
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 07:23:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Brang is an accented bring.


Lizking...'brang' is not even a word...it doesn't exist in the dictionary


online dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/)

try it yourself and see!

And this guy is running your country!:rofl
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:24:09 PM
wait - was it an accented "bring" or a non-existent word for the past tense of bring?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 22, 2004, 07:29:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
Lizking...'brang' is not even a word...it doesn't exist in the dictionary


online dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/)

try it yourself and see!

And this guy is running your country!:rofl


Does someone need to explain to xrihateamercia what an accent is?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 07:30:04 PM
It isn't in the dictionary because it is not a word or a contraction of a word, it is how Texans say bring.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 07:31:15 PM
Just like oil=earl and son of a *****=sum*****.  you get the idea now?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 07:33:23 PM
ya I get it!

he's 'DUMB AS A ROCK';)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:34:18 PM
I always thought of "accent" as the sound of a proper word.

New and different words... what would that be.... dialect?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 22, 2004, 07:34:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
it's called the alphanumeric system...if you had finished high school you would have learned it!

definition  (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/a/alphanumeric.html)

(who's the moron?):lol

Quote

spell1    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (spl)
v. spelled, or spelt (splt) spell·ing, spells
v. tr.
To name or write in order the letters constituting (a word or part of a word).
To constitute the letters of (a word): These letters spell animal.


I tried to look up 7 in the dictionary... couldn't find it.  I could find SEVEN, but not 7.  

In this alpha numeric system of yours, is lieu10ant a correct spelling ?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 07:42:07 PM
mine was a rhetorical question, but your response answered it anyway:rofl
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Holden McGroin on July 22, 2004, 07:46:24 PM
So you came in first in the bee spelling that way huh?

And I always thought canuckians were proud of thier educational system.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: midnight Target on July 22, 2004, 07:46:50 PM
Quote
These two men brang a common-sense approach to how to move forward.


Inconclusive. coulda been an accented bring.. coulda been a Texas "Brought".

No biggy
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:48:20 PM
Yer right.... could be either of the two.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: AKWeav on July 22, 2004, 07:51:05 PM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/07/20040722-5.html
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 22, 2004, 07:55:23 PM
From Weav's post:

"These two men bring a common-sense approach to how to move forward..."


"Brang a common sense.."

Dialect, Accent whatever, Xrihateamerica's desperate attempt to belittle the presidents speech just shows his truth colors, "eh?"

{Waves to Weav} Hey bud, you been down to the new extension of the MOF? We should meet up some week end.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 07:59:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
"...Xrihateamerica's desperate attempt to belittle the presidents speech just shows his truth colors, "eh?""


You shur know how to pick yer targets, Rip. Read the very first post in this thread. The one we are talking about now. As far as I know, MT is an uhmerkan.

However, the main thing we should ALL be taking away from this ugly episode is the fact that we could so easily IMAGINE that it's even PROBABLE that Bush said a past-tense brought.

It's frightening and let this be a lesson to all of us.

:D
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 08:01:04 PM
Dialect, Accent whatever, in a little more than 3 months you can brang that guy home to Tx.;)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 08:02:29 PM
Well, Toronto, I can speak like that as well.  As for it showing a lack of speaking skills or intellectual development, I think that you would find that to be an incorrect assessment of the situation.  

But I will say this:  I usually am stronger in my accent when dealing with a Yankee; it makes them feel better to think that I am stupid, and gives me the tactical advantage because they feel superior.

Ya'll cum back now, Y'here!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 08:03:39 PM
Anglich is sich a grate langwich.  Sho'.  So fluident and varidust.   Not lak dat Franch.  Dem fokes gots lawz fobitten the innerduction of new wurds from outside dair contry.

Howsomevah, dey show gots some good cookin' what's larrapin.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 08:04:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
"...gives me the tactical advantage because they feel superior."


That was one of the theories they explored in the article I mentioned.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Ripsnort on July 22, 2004, 08:06:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
You shur know how to pick yer targets, Rip.

 


If you crazy canucks didn't make such easy targets, I wouldn't have much to fire at!:lol

Meanwhile, go ahead and use this Redneck translator (http://www.atlantaga.com/redneck.htm) during you're hate fits of Amereeka. ;)  Oh, and sleep at ease tonight, we're protecting your backside( only because you happen to border our great nation :rofl )
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 08:06:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Howsomevah, dey show gots some..."


Is Howsomevah slang for "however"? And are people actually using that?

I hope so, and I hope yer answer is yes.... cuz damn! I'm gonna use that all the fricken time.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 08:08:21 PM
Excuse me, I used some big words.  Let's just keep it a a level you can understand:

xrtoronto:  Some guy posting on an obscure BBS

handsomehunk cowboy who cain't talk from Texas:  President of the United States

Hmmm, OK, I think I see your point now.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: xrtoronto on July 22, 2004, 08:08:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
it makes them feel better to think that I am stupid, and gives me the tactical advantage because they feel superior.


if that tactic works for you then your oponents haven't been very bright, eh?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 08:09:31 PM
Look at the big brain on Toronto!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Stringer on July 22, 2004, 08:11:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
if that tactic works for you then your oponents haven't been very bright, eh?


You don't negotiate for a living do you.  Or even work for a living for that matter.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 08:13:25 PM
LOL, you could say that. Stringer.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 08:17:26 PM
Nash,

Yep...people actually use it...but are often just playing around.  Kinda fun to kick off the shackles of conventionality every once in a while...aint it?

Well I'swan, we sho' habben sum fun nah wid dis heah thred, don'cha thank?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 08:20:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Well I'swan, we sho' habben sum fun nah wid dis heah thred, don'cha thank?


Word up BROTHER.

I am just kicking it with my bad self... in my, ah.. crib... located in this hood... erhm...

Damn I suck at that.

Howsomevah, I fare better with the southern stuff. Sounds better anyways.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 08:29:55 PM
Ya no Nash, ole Jimmy Carfill wuz wun a dem Luziannah Cajuns what cud make da swich fum bayou talkin' crackuh to citah-slickah langwich...and he could do it in an eye-blink without missing a beat.  The natural result of a college education and a large dose of ambition.  Sho'.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 08:31:47 PM
Yeah! :aok
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 08:35:02 PM
But on a somewhat curious note.... Bush in Texas was a city talker, then switched to southern talk only upon taking a job neccessitating speaking to the entire nation.

That's not a knock or anything close, because I just don't understand it well enough to form an opinion on it. It is... yeah... curious.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: X2Lee on July 22, 2004, 09:27:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
it's called the alphanumeric system...if you had finished high school you would have learned it!

definition  (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/a/alphanumeric.html)

(who's the moron?):lol


Seems to be you still   :lol

Unless your just playing dumb?


nah....
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 09:39:40 PM
Nash, it is often better to play to a preconception than to fight it.  As I stated above, it gives you an advantage by re-enforcing a preconception.  Sometimes it works better to do the opposite, re: in a formal debate against an opponent who can twang even better than you.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 09:41:46 PM
Nash,

Ole Slick Willy had been in Southern politics long enough to see through Bush's stumble-bumblin' speechifyin'.  That's why, before he left office, he warned people not to underestimate him.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 09:43:41 PM
hmmm... Yup. I git what yer saying. I need to digest it a bit.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 09:44:53 PM
Don't sweat it, just keep pokin the tiddies.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 09:59:40 PM
Nash,

For further proof, see if you can find a copy of the speech Bush made to the joint session of Congress in which he warned the Taliban to give up Ben Laden.

He did not sound like the same person.  That was a better speech...short, succint, and lucid...than any he had ever delivered before.  I got chill bumps listening to him.

 That was no accident...and it wasn't the result of intensive coaching by his speech writers either.  He has had this sort of ability all along...most of the time I believe he simply panders to the prejudices of his political opponents.  They underestimate him, despite Clinton's warnings, and he uses their contempt to stay one step ahead of them.  At least most of the time.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:08:44 PM
Okay... I'm starting to get it...

And it's rich... because it alters my entire idea of Bush. No small thing.

If true.... I am then left with one nagging, problem.

He's reached the pinnacle of everything. He's the President of the United States of America. So whatever he did to get there, okay.... I'm down with it.

But there is a part of me that says "When you've arrived, isn't it now time to ditch the mask?"

Seems much too serious of a position to continue to put on a charade.

It's new to me, so my perception/reaction could be way off.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 10:16:22 PM
Well, there is this little thing of an election...  

Seriously, it is not something like a daytimer that is a tool you use when you have to, it is just SOP.  Normal and everyday and done without conscious thought.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:19:40 PM
So he's adopted an underdog strategy to such an extent that it has become a subconscious, ingrained, fully realized persona?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 10:22:26 PM
No, it is the way the South is.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 10:23:18 PM
Why ditch the mask?  It's still very useful.

Howsomevah...it may have become something of a crutch for him.  He's used it so long he can't imagine not ever using it.

Who knows for certain?!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:27:36 PM
The lasting thing to me is the fact that he has thrust himself onto the national stage by way of an affected local persona, but chooses to keep hold of that persona in the face of national mockery.

Yeah... this entire thing could be about duration. The second, final election. And until he doesn't have any use for the game, he might as well spend the 1st four years with a coupla cards up his sleeve.

But that bothers me somehow... I can't put my finger on it.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 10:34:16 PM
Try thinking of it as a persona he has used so often it has turned into a kind of verbal "tic" that is difficult to discard.  

I've seen people who grew up in my area...lived here for decades...move to other areas of the country...return home years later...and never realize that their speech patterns and accent have changed.  They may have made these changes to fit in, and then lost control of the process.  The mind can be a funny thing.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 10:37:28 PM
Nash, you still don't understand.  It is not an act, a face you put on and take off.  It is the Southern attitude.  Pick up some Faulkner, or for something newer and lighter, read Queen of the Turtle Derby by Julia Reed.  It is kind of funny, and you may even learn something about the South.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 10:48:35 PM
Nash,

Liz may be closer to the truth in that last statement than with anything else that was previously posted.  This may be Bush's way of displaying pride in his Texas upbringing and culture.

Clinton wasn't the same person in D.C. that he was in Arkansas.  He cultivated sophisticats with ease.  He could then roll up his sleeves and be perfectly at home munching catfish, hushpuppies, and cole slaw with po' fokes.

Bush does the same thing....but with a different style.  He may not be as comfortable with making the switch as Clinton was.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:51:28 PM
Rgr Shuckins... I think you're onto it. At least it sounds the most reasonable to me.

The debates will be interesting.... like no other debate ('cept for maybe the 1st televised debate). At least to me - I wasn't even alive for Nixon/Kennedy.

Because it will kind of answer the question for once and for all:

Has Bush's entire career of coming off as a dumb-arse been a calculated ploy to create such an air of low expectations as to completely disarm his opponents?

Will his performance in his final act be a continuation of that play?

Or....

Knowing that his use for that character is no longer needed, and further, will be astonishing to almost everyone if it were suddenly discarded, drop it, and floor Kerry with a performance that will stun just about everyone... ensuring another win, and justifying the use of that character for the last 4-8 years?

Or...

Will his "tick" be manifested so thoroughly that he is, despite having an actual hidden intelligence much greater than its expression, stuck?

It'll be fascinating...
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:54:46 PM
started writing that before the last 2 posts, but finished after them.... so the flow is messed.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Torque on July 22, 2004, 10:55:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Will his "tick" be manifested so thoroughly that he is, despite having an actual hidden intelligence much greater than its expression, stuck?

It'll be fascinating...


Like play'n with a puppy.:lol
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 10:58:10 PM
At the risk of sounding like Grun... What do you mean?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:05:22 PM
Oh chit... didn't even look at the nic.

Torque... In that case, I know what yer sayin', so nevermind the last question. :)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 22, 2004, 11:06:32 PM
being well spoken and being intelligent can be two very seperate things.

Bush is no dummy in my opinion. He gets his point across and seems like he acts on what he beleives is the right thing to do.

Kerry seems like he is just a talker, nothing in his head guiding him or his decisions other than the words or actions he percieves will give him an edge or make him liked.

I can't wait for the debates, should be fun.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 11:06:51 PM
As president he has a lot more information at his disposal than he did as a candidate.  That will be useful in any debate.  

Ya got to pity the man.  Whether one agrees with his policies or not you must admit he has NOT had a happy presidency.  

As I've said before, I bet Gore gets down on knees every night and thanks God that he is NOT in the White House.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 11:08:07 PM
Nash, you still don't get it.  If you are interested in the Southern mind, read Faulkner.

For the debate, his tone will depend upon the tack Kerry takes.

With Ann Richards, for example, she stayed down home, since that really is her limit.  She is a great lady, but she can not make the transition away from being a Good ol Boy.  Bush can, and the worst thing Kerry could do would be to condescend to Bush.  He will eat him alive with the "Brangs" and "Ya'lls" if he does, just because that is the natural reaction.

If, on the other hand, Kerry treats him with a modicum of respect, then Bush will speak as the Harvard MBA that he is.  Not a conscious decision, just the way it is.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Thrawn on July 22, 2004, 11:14:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Look at the big brain on Toronto!


Taken literally, that's a very disturbing image.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:14:57 PM
Ya got to pity the man. Whether one agrees with his policies or not you must admit he has NOT had a happy presidency.

As I've said before, I bet Gore gets down on knees every night and thanks God that he is NOT in the White House.


Mediocre times makes for mediocre Presidents. At least they make it seem that way, much to Clinton's dismay.

But these aren't mediocre times...

Nowadays, you are either great or trash. A rare opportunity for a President, if you wanna view it inna perverted Nietzschesque kinda way.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:19:31 PM
I'm with ya Lizking... I think I understand.

Still the question remains... for me...

If his affectation is a polorized opposite reaction to whats in front of him, what does it say when his entire presidency has been conducted with the "yalls" persona?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 11:21:33 PM
It basically says that no matter what he does, he will be hammered with the preconception, so he may as well feed it and use the tactical advantage that it provides.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:24:49 PM
Hammered with the preconception?

He manufactured that preconception for (if your theory is correct) political gain.

Now somehow he's at the mercy of it, so he might as well milk it?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 11:33:58 PM
Nope, it is not fake, it is not a mask. Visit the South and/or read Faulkner, I have tried my best to 'esplain it.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 11:34:18 PM
Nash, the old "Kingfish" from Louisiana, Huey Long, was pretty good at this game.

Upon reflection, I have sometimes used the same trick.  It usually falls out like this.  Having been introduced to a stranger from another area of the country, I sense from their expression or tone of voice that they are amused or put off by my accent.  My reaction is often to deepen their misconception of me as a semi-literate Southern hick.  If I'm having to work with this person, reinforcing their feelings of superiority gives me an advantage in dealing with them. (Pahdun me mayum...but I'm not sure ah understan what you mean by that!)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:38:18 PM
K...

Finally... I think I've got it.

Not a mask... Something real.

But something you can either turn off or turn on (even amplify) depending on the circumstances.

Do I have it?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 22, 2004, 11:44:53 PM
Yep...sounds like it to me...I hereby dubya an honorary Suthenah.

Congratulations.  :aok
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 22, 2004, 11:48:17 PM
Turning it on and off is not a good analogy, but if that is the only way you can understand it, then understand that the part he is adjusting is the Harvard MBA part, not the Good ol Boy part.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 22, 2004, 11:57:59 PM
But that's the essential part of the equation to me, Lizking... So I must still don't get it.

Is he Harvard turning on/off the South or is he the South turning on/off Harvard?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 23, 2004, 12:01:33 AM
Nash, picture xtoronto in reverse. Bush is an intelligent guy who tries to come off as stupid.:rofl
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:06:14 AM
You don't get it.  You are assuming that he is a shallow cardboard cutout, when he is not.   That is the mistake a lot of people make when they hear a Texan or a Cajun or a Brooklynite talk.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 12:13:27 AM
Perhaps it would help to think of it as two facets of the same personality.  I think what Liz is trying to say is that most Southerners have this type of personality.  I tend to agree with that.  Each facet is displayed when the situation requires it.  Each is just as "real" as the other.  Ergo...Bush can no more discard it than I can...he just modifies it when events make it necessary to do so.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:15:44 AM
I don't get it?

You just figured that out?

Damn straight I don't.

I am not trying to paint Bush into a corner, I am exploring the notion that he has actually not been in a corner this whole entire time.

I am tripped up, however, on the persona shifts which you confirm are not only real but natural. You submit it is a normal thing for southerners. And especially effective for Harvard educated Northerners cum Southerners.

I'm wondering at this point, what is the real Bush?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 23, 2004, 12:18:41 AM
LOL Nash, you would be harder pressed to devine "who is the real Kerry"

Bush does what he says.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:18:42 AM
I'm getting the suspicion that the answer to all this is so obvious that you cannot get there by actually thinking about it. Will only get ya more lost...
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:19:07 AM
Bush is a very smart man who does not feel like he has to prove it to anyone.  He would just as soon let them assume he is a stupidhandsomehunk.  This is a common Southern trait, and pretty much the opposite of his opponent in this election.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:25:30 AM
One more at bat....

"He would just as soon let them assume he is a stupidhandsomehunk."

That's the whole entire weirdness.

Because he KNOWS how to form complete sentences, appearently.

So if he does NOT form complete sentences, then he is making a DECISION not to....

.....in order to "let them assume he is a stupidhandsomehunk."

This is what a President does?

Bah...

That's some type of game a chick would play in order to get ya to take her to a certain restaurant.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:26:34 AM
Read Faulkner.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 23, 2004, 12:27:00 AM
Nash, you are assuming Lizking has some insight into how Bush thinks....which I was finding kinda funny :)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 12:27:46 AM
Nash,

Most Southerners grow up not giving a dam about correct grammar.  Even those that go off to Harvard never completely lose that lackadaisical attitude towards speech.  They can use the "King's English" to make a coherent argument when among those who consider themselves to be highly literate.  While this may seem to be a contradictory statement, both are parts of the same personality.  One aspect is natural, the other is learned, both are real and are prized by the individual.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:28:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
Read Faulkner.


got me curious...

gonna.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:29:20 AM
It is not how he thinks that I presume to know, it is how he acts that I can see.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 12:32:26 AM
Liz has a point...if you allow your enemies to endulge their fantasies of superiority it puts them off their guard...and makes it easier to de-nut them.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 23, 2004, 12:35:49 AM
I suspect Nash is realising that there is more to Bush than he thought possible. He is showing a curiousity and interest in Bush that reveals a certain respect for Bush....and that's one of a lot things I like about Nash.

Nash is a true open minded, creative thinker in my opinion.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:35:58 AM
Shuckins... as far as my limited understanding goes, yers makes the most sense to me (which might be what Liz has been saying but I've been too dense to understand).

ie..

Bush's chosen/natural language is "Southern", but can at will speak "Northern" if the situation calls for it.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:38:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I suspect Nash is realising that there is more to Bush than he thought possible.


Quite true.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 12:41:34 AM
Nash,

Good discussion.  Enjoyed it. :aok

Take care,

Shuckins/Leggern
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:43:02 AM
sweet dreams :)
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: NUKE on July 23, 2004, 12:44:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Quite true.


sarcasim? heh

Nash, I view you as  a person who thinks things through based on your own understanding and intelligence , regardless of what others say or do. I deeply respect that in people.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:46:54 AM
Well, let's not go crazy, Bush isn't Stephen Hawking by a long shot, but he isn't  some fence-puller off the ranch, either.

I guess the one word explanation of what the Southern attitude is would be: Empathy.  

The realization of the power of letting another person feel good at your expense;  the security of your own ego that does not require external gratification for validation.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Nash on July 23, 2004, 12:47:03 AM
No sarcasm there friend.

And thanks.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 23, 2004, 12:51:52 AM
Nash,

I think the determaining factor in this election is going to be the debates.  Bush and kerry are really tied neck and neck and I really think if Bush puts on a strong performence that is what is going to put him over the edge.

Now I have to agree w/ you on some points.....Bush is a terrible improntu (SP) speaker.  If he's speaking to the press off the cuff he just doesnt get his point across and minces words.  Weather this is deliborate or not I dont know.


I will say this about southern speak.  Every summer of my life I went to georgia and alabam for at least a month to visit my "kin" till I was 16.  I ALLWAYS came back to Nebraska with a fairly thick souther accent.  This allways lasted a month or two before I got rid of it.  

with half my family being from the south I find myself talking like them every time I speak to them.....its contagious....

I imagine it is just as contagious for somone from there who is around "yankees" all the time to learn to talk like them and interact like them for the sake of communication.  I'm not exactly sure what i'm saying here but I've seen reels of JFK talk like a regular northerner before and not sound like he's from boston.....but some of his GREATEST speaches he's made would not sound the same if he did not have the accent.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 12:55:18 AM
Empathy.  Wow.  Also a very valid point. Salute Liz.  A third facet.

 Now that you mention it, I see that manifested much of the time in people saying what they think others want to hear, just to make them feel good about themselves, or in a self-deprecating sense of humor.  

Whether that totally explains his actions in the political arena is open to debate.  Undoubtedly there is more than one factor at work there.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:55:50 AM
It would be a good study for some undergrad to do:

Are regional accents suppressed during formal speaking situations.


 I know mine are.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 12:57:05 AM
Yeah, Shukins, back in the day, when people cared, it was called "Manners".  Sorely lacking today.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 23, 2004, 12:58:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
It would be a good study for some undergrad to do:

Are regional accents suppressed during formal speaking situations.


 I know mine are.


"We choose to put a man on the moon not because it is easy but because it is hard"

Now maybe JFK was just a great speak but I really think his bostonian flare drove his points home....you agree?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on July 23, 2004, 01:01:50 AM
I dunno, I really can't say that Bush is just playing with people or perhaps - he simply became use to speaking in front of people he was not used to speaking in front of prior to him becoming president.

Me? Technically I'm south of the Mason Dixon line. Half my family is from the far north, other half is from the deep south. I mix my language all of the time, but that doesn't matter when I'm giving speeches - I just can't give speeches for the life of me in front of groups of unfamiliar people.

Perhaps thats what Bush's problem was, because he has certainly become much better since his first speech. He may have not been used to speaking in front of Congress and that led to some problems.

But really, who cares about speech ability? Hitler was among the best, if not the best, and look what happened...
-SW
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 01:02:33 AM
Yep, I liked his accent, but he could "talk flat" too.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 01:06:19 AM
First, thank you SW, I wait on tenterhooks for it's reappearance.

I guess I should make clear my definition of Yankee.

You are a Yankee if you were born north of I-10

You are a Damned Yankee if you were born north of I-20

North of that, you are Canadian, or at least under their influence.
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 23, 2004, 01:08:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I dunno, I really can't say that Bush is just playing with people or perhaps - he simply became use to speaking in front of people he was not used to speaking in front of prior to him becoming president.

Me? Technically I'm south of the Mason Dixon line. Half my family is from the far north, other half is from the deep south. I mix my language all of the time, but that doesn't matter when I'm giving speeches - I just can't give speeches for the life of me in front of groups of unfamiliar people.

Perhaps thats what Bush's problem was, because he has certainly become much better since his first speech. He may have not been used to speaking in front of Congress and that led to some problems.

But really, who cares about speech ability? Hitler was among the best, if not the best, and look what happened...
-SW


relating Bush to hitler gives you no credibility what so ever.  You do realize this right.  Hitler was just one of many great speakers in that century.

Martin luther King was a great speaker.....does that make him a fascist that wants to kill jews and take over the world?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Lizking on July 23, 2004, 01:10:41 AM
I guess it is time for bed, because I read SW's Hitler comparison different.  Goodnight!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 01:12:38 AM
Do you realize that Yankees live south of Canada, yet they are not called Southerners?

Makes a fella stop and think, don't it?!
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on July 23, 2004, 01:14:44 AM
I think you read it wrong Gunslinger.
-SW
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 23, 2004, 01:16:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Do you realize that Yankees live south of Canada, yet they are not called Southerners?

Makes a fella stop and think, don't it?!


sorry bud but that makes no sense

they are not called southerners cause they live above the mason dixon line.

They ARE called yankees cause they live south of Canada and ABOVE the mason dixon line.

Am I missing somehting here?
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Shuckins on July 23, 2004, 01:19:46 AM
That was a JOKE...a JOKE son!  That one went right over your haid!  I keep pitchin' em an you keep missin' em!

Pay attention boy when I'm talkin' to ya!  (Nice kid but he don't listen to a word ya say.)

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
Title: Bush Talk on 9-11 report today.
Post by: Gunslinger on July 23, 2004, 01:21:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
That was a JOKE...a JOKE son!  That one went right over your haid!  I keep pitchin' em an you keep missin' em!

Pay attention boy when I'm talkin' to ya!  (Nice kid but he don't listen to a word ya say.)

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern


My thursday night 12 pack is about empty if that says anything ;)