Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: jaxxo on July 22, 2004, 02:24:31 PM
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I was just thinking. The so called "elite" pilots of AH2 seem to be on a different level than the rest of us. I would like to see squads taking turns in the training arena teaching some of the younger guys some moves. I know it would be a pain in the arse listening to the inane questions but IMO its a great way to start getting to a higher level of gameplay in the MA. Cause it kinda sux right now. You all can admit it. Even the squads that have great sticks and wing well together have to get bored of slaughtering these newbs...well maybe not....but something has to be done. Im going to make an effort to train some folks...some others care to step up? Would love to shedule an open class for the acm challenged.
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Heh, an easy start is to maybe point out to the newbs what
not to do to make themselves recognized as easy prey. Im sure
you vets can spot a newb flier within seconds just by what actions
they are making. Don't need a name icon to spot them out easy I'm sure.
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Are you an ACM expert?
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I can (or I could when I flew) tell if someone was a dwee...er, newbie by a couple of things: 1) flying over 25K in a fighter, but never engaging anyone; 2) If they were killed more than once taking off from the same capped field. Oh, and 3) the dwee...er newbies always try to HO ya because to them that's the easiest way to engage in combat. The thought of actually employing ACM to merge hasn't occurred to them, yet.
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Dont start steve.
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Thats what im talking about....just helping out those individuals....just think, a few less guys a day going for the ho everytime...than they can train another newb, so on and so forth.
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playing WW2ONL right now Jaxxo....
but If I do come back to AH I'll try and get some Hornets to participate in your fine Idea of helping noobs.
and yes Steve, I do know ACM
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lol
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Lol Slo, feel better?
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whats an acm?
that an uber a6m or something?
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Wether or not they know anything is not the point, Steve. They are trying to give something back to the game they enjoy and you attempt to flame them.
Real classy of you.
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Originally posted by SLO
and yes Steve, I do know ACM
Blowing past the merge running and screaming in fright does not equate knowing ACM.
I'm more than willing to help players learn ACM or the finer points of the P-38 but my work hours kind of make it hard.
ack-ack
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Using ACM is CHEATING! :mad: It's almost as bad as using the SKILL CHEAT! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Originally posted by jaxxo
I was just thinking. The so called "elite" pilots of AH2 seem to be on a different level than the rest of us. I would like to see squads taking turns in the training arena teaching some of the younger guys some moves. I know it would be a pain in the arse listening to the inane questions but IMO its a great way to start getting to a higher level of gameplay in the MA. Cause it kinda sux right now. You all can admit it. Even the squads that have great sticks and wing well together have to get bored of slaughtering these newbs...well maybe not....but something has to be done. Im going to make an effort to train some folks...some others care to step up? Would love to shedule an open class for the acm challenged.
I thought ACM was outlawed when AH1 started.
Anim
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Originally posted by Ohio330
Im sure
you vets can spot a newb flier within seconds just by what actions
they are making. Don't need a name icon to spot them out easy I'm sure.
I just love the ones spraying away at D2k, its like spotting a free kill.
Steve, jaxxo just stayed at a holiday inn express, he knows what he is talking about :)
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funny how someone offers help then immediately gets flamed.
"YOU CANT FIGHT ME GOOD AS! THEREFORE YOU NOT KNOW ACM! ME R L33T!" :rolleyes:
community here going down the gutter, or already has.
If you want to learn, there are fine individuals such as GhostH in the TA. If i bother playing the game again i will always be willing to help you train them jaxxo. And I apologize wholeheartedly beforehand to those 'experten' for offering my inadequate services.
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I find ACM is more of a can't be taught kinda thing. I found it to be more of a the more you die the more you learn. No one person i think can teach ACM until teh "N00b" has a firm grip on how to do some and understands ACM. You cant teach a "N00b" who only ho's hopw to use rudders alone. He has to learn to use them through multiple deaths.
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You can teach/explain a tactic to use for a given situation described. then follow it up with a 1 on 1 session in the TA or DA, and it is better to possibly have 2 seasoned flyers perform such tactic while the student is riding along as an observer.....
but there can be an unlimited amount of variables for any given situation, To teach all the variables is the hard part, this must come from gaining experience.
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I applaud your effort Jaxxo. Just a quick lil story here...I have no idea what ACM really is. I don't really no what an immelman vs. a split s is. What I do know is..Planes go up , down , roll left , roll right , and you can turn em with some rudder as well faster and tighter but youll loose more speed I think.
Some one says that was a nice move..I have no idea what I did. Others say.."You suk" and I think well DUH:rolleyes: Then they throw that learn some ACM. I think ok I will when I figure out exactly what that is.
I have a squaddie that has been flying a couple months or so. He wanted to learn a lil bit...So I said sure we can do that. But you know what? I have NO IDEA what I am doing more than 1/2 the time. None. I just try to not do what he did and try to get the baddie in front of me. So anyway...I take this squaddie for a ride into a furball. He is saying what a nice move that was..nice turn there..Nice this nice that. Heak I was just yanking and trying to kill Red guys.
All this leads to this.....ANd you may flame as ya wish....BUT WTH is ACM...I know its manuvers..but what are they called..WHat types are what? I could be doinig COMBO Moves not yet known to man and have NO IDEA what they are? :confused:
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Blowing past the merge running and screaming in fright does not equate knowing ACM.
I'm more than willing to help players learn ACM or the finer points of the P-38 but my work hours kind of make it hard.
ack-ack
here is the 1st lesson for the Noobs.
See this man(girl) Ack-Ack, in the game you will usually find him much much higher then you, see thats what we call a PERCHER, his fantastic skills carry him to that height, when he looks down it looks like everyone running from him, but see here boys and girls, he is vision impaired, thats what happens when you hang at 25K + for too long, its that thinning blood to the head thing
yes I do Steve, was just buggin ya bud, just in case you came back with a witty response(christ I must be gettin paranoid :D )
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I'm in the Training Arena every day (usually) for at least an hour. Heading there right now as a matter o' fact. Anybody that wants help can email me, or grab me from the MA for some quick lessons.
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Furball, I hope you didnt mean me. Jaxxo is a good stick and will take advantage of an oppnents mistake in a heartbeat. Steve's question was hardly more than a friendly ribbing.
Skull, taking a new player and explaining a few basic concepts, followed up by some dueling with the trainer explaining what the n00b is doing wrong, and what he should be doing can take months off of their learning curve. It works quite well actually.
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Originally posted by RedTop
I applaud your effort Jaxxo. Just a quick lil story here...I have no idea what ACM really is. I don't really no what an immelman vs. a split s is. What I do know is..Planes go up , down , roll left , roll right , and you can turn em with some rudder as well faster and tighter but youll loose more speed I think.
Some one says that was a nice move..I have no idea what I did. Others say.."You suk" and I think well DUH:rolleyes: Then they throw that learn some ACM. I think ok I will when I figure out exactly what that is.
I have a squaddie that has been flying a couple months or so. He wanted to learn a lil bit...So I said sure we can do that. But you know what? I have NO IDEA what I am doing more than 1/2 the time. None. I just try to not do what he did and try to get the baddie in front of me. So anyway...I take this squaddie for a ride into a furball. He is saying what a nice move that was..nice turn there..Nice this nice that. Heak I was just yanking and trying to kill Red guys.
All this leads to this.....ANd you may flame as ya wish....BUT WTH is ACM...I know its manuvers..but what are they called..WHat types are what? I could be doinig COMBO Moves not yet known to man and have NO IDEA what they are? :confused:
Red, I have fought your Spit5 some, you got excellent maneuvers and you handle it well.
one mistake I've noticed, please don't take this the wrong way, just tryin to let you see what I've seen.
Its not cause your in a TnB(Turn an Burn) plane that you CANNOT use speed.
learn the combo of speed and TnB
If I were you I'd look up Leviathon, Wldthing and Drex(not sure if he still plays)probable the best to show you the real strenght of the spit5
hope it helps
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Originally posted by RedTop
I have a squaddie that has been flying a couple months or so. He wanted to learn a lil bit...So I said sure we can do that. But you know what? I have NO IDEA what I am doing more than 1/2 the time.
RedTop, been there. Thats a key point in trying to train. Although I could put names to manuvers, before I began to give training in AW, I only knew what worked, I didnt know why, or even think about "oh, he is doing a hi yo-yo so I will do a..."
Even without knowing the whys and hows, you should still be able to say "you shouldnt pull up when Im comming at you like that..." or something of the sort. I had to reverse engineer to be able to explain things to someone else. If you do ever take the time to work backwards and figure out why what you do works, it helps your own flying though.
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sorry for hijacking your thread Jaxxo....but some have it out for me:D
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Originally posted by SLO
Red, I have fought your Spit5 some, you got excellent maneuvers and you handle it well.
one mistake I've noticed, please don't take this the wrong way, just tryin to let you see what I've seen.
Its not cause your in a TnB(Turn an Burn) plane that you CANNOT use speed.
learn the combo of speed and TnB
If I were you I'd look up Leviathon, Wldthing and Drex(not sure if he still plays)probable the best to show you the real strenght of the spit5
hope it helps
Thanks SLO...Seems I get hooked up with Levi a few times..unfortunatly is is shooting me :lol Same goes for Wildthing as well. Drex I havent had the pleasure of dying to yet.
And I dont take your comments as anything but helpful. I seem to end up slow faster than others I fight..I often find myself listening to that god awful buzzer for an entire fight.
I really enjoy both aspects of fighting. BnZ as well as TnB. Flying my favorite ride that I do ,tends to put me in that TnB stage more often. Which is quite ok with me. I do enjoy Fighting at alt tho. Trying to stay up there and keep the fight up there seems hard tho when most planes I fight can simply dive and be gone. Nature of FLying what I fly I guess.
Again SLO...thanks a ton for the sugggestions. I'll try to find these guys more often. :aok
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for one if you fight Levi or any other spit5.....take the damn AUTO TRIM OFF...and good luck with em, its the only way too learn.
and from your post you DO understand the spit5. Try alternating between Spit9 and 5, with the 9 you will be able to carry more speed into a fight, and the 5 for pure TnB enjoyment
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Originally posted by SLO
for one if you fight Levi or any other spit5.....take the damn AUTO TRIM OFF...and good luck with em, its the only way too learn.
and from your post you DO understand the spit5. Try alternating between Spit9 and 5, with the 9 you will be able to carry more speed into a fight, and the 5 for pure TnB enjoyment
Actually, Levi uses combat trim...
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Originally posted by Murdr
RedTop, been there. Thats a key point in trying to train. Although I could put names to manuvers, before I began to give training in AW, I only knew what worked, I didnt know why, or even think about "oh, he is doing a hi yo-yo so I will do a..."
Even without knowing the whys and hows, you should still be able to say "you shouldnt pull up when Im comming at you like that..." or something of the sort. I had to reverse engineer to be able to explain things to someone else. If you do ever take the time to work backwards and figure out why what you do works, it helps your own flying though.
well said Murdr, it is hard to explain backwards. But thats pretty good advice Red, listen to the man
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Actually, Levi uses combat trim...
so do I, makes for a smoother ride IMHO.
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Originally posted by SLO
for one if you fight Levi or any other spit5.....take the damn AUTO TRIM OFF...and good luck with em, its the only way too learn.
and from your post you DO understand the spit5. Try alternating between Spit9 and 5, with the 9 you will be able to carry more speed into a fight, and the 5 for pure TnB enjoyment
I understand the Spit V to an extent that I cant run. I can out turn alot but not everything. Its flying it at that stall ponit so much. So yeah I understand that I suppose....What I mean by ACM is what moces are what. Whats their names. What is a split S exactly and why is it done. I saw someone ask one day..AND PLEASE..I'm not being stupid cause I truly don't know what they are called , they asked was that a double immelman...What in the world is that?
What moves are used for what?
I just fly by what I have seen. Do what I have seen a few others do. Rolling Scissors...Split S's...yadda yadda yadda...
I can loop til I auger..I can Turn til im dizzzy and have NO IDEA if that is called something. :lol So when someone says teach me that move I say...."I yanked real hard back on the stick , gave it a hard rudder to the oppisette direction and rolled over to the right..and BOOM...he was there..See what I mean?:confused:
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Originally posted by SLO
here is the 1st lesson for the Noobs.
See this man(girl) Ack-Ack, in the game you will usually find him much much higher then you, see thats what we call a PERCHER....
LOL, this is kind of like the guy asking the farmer for a 'bail of hay' to cover the grass seed in his lawn while the farmer is thinking 'this is straw you idiot'. Or the guy who goes out to bs with the crew working on his house saying 'Yea, I've laid some cement in my time', while the workers are snickering because anyone with a clue would know its 'pour concrete'.
N00bs the common slang for this is 'Alt-Monkey'. When they decide to come down on some poor soul who is engaged they become a 'cherry picker'. :)
Oh, and here (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9) is a copy of one of the old txt files I used in AW. If you can explain a few basics and reinforce them in the air it helps.
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Originally posted by RedTop
I saw someone ask one day..AND PLEASE..I'm not being stupid cause I truly don't know what they are called , they asked was that a double immelman...What in the world is that?
RT, click on the link in my last post
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Originally posted by Murdr
RedTop, been there. Thats a key point in trying to train. Although I could put names to manuvers, before I began to give training in AW, I only knew what worked, I didnt know why, or even think about "oh, he is doing a hi yo-yo so I will do a..."
Even without knowing the whys and hows, you should still be able to say "you shouldnt pull up when Im comming at you like that..." or something of the sort. I had to reverse engineer to be able to explain things to someone else. If you do ever take the time to work backwards and figure out why what you do works, it helps your own flying though.
Ok...work backwards...So basically what you are saying...If someone asks..just keep it in simple terms...
You went left and failed to read that angle..or something to that effect. I mean..honestly..I want to fly as well as guys like XJ..SLO..Wildthng,,,Drex..Slapshot....Wadke..Leviathn (he's best V guy)..The list goes on and on. AND I am gonna be flying in here for a good long time. I enjoy fighting and thats it. Building bashing is NOT my thing. Flying fast planes ie Pony 109's 190's LA's isnt my thing either as I fly my favorite WW2 Plane. Spit IX is fine and all...But its just not as much fun to me. I think Im just a simpleton maybe :lol
Am I reading you right in how to explain backwards?
And what is Auto Trim and Combat Trim...in fact...WTH IS Trim?
Oh and JAXXO...Not meaning to Hijack either:D
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You got it redtop. If you can at least point out what they are doing that is giving away position, and add "you shoulda...." it helps them avoid making the same mistake over and over.
Like I said, it works best if you have a pretty good overview in your own mind on how moves interact, but if you can at a minimum point out mistakes its a help.
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you absolutely GOTTA learn fast planes, a good fighter uses all aspects of flight to his advantage.
the real good ones RED use a combo of BnZ, TnB and good SA.
the best do it with there eyes closed.
look for pictures of Flight Manuevers.
your good, you just need to apply Energy to your fighting skills.
soon we will get into REVERSALS :D
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Wether or not they know anything is not the point, Steve. They are trying to give something back to the game they enjoy and you attempt to flame them.
flame them? You're kidding right?
I was pokin a lil fun at Jaxxo and Slo, don't have bad thought for either one of them.. well excpet for maybe Slo's political leanings.*
* A note for Delirium: This was poking more fun, I'll do this from now on when you are involved in a thread.*2
*2 A note to Delirium: That was poking fun at you. :)
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Originally posted by Steve
flame them? You're kidding right?
Dont believe him, Ive known Steve a long time and he is cruel, mean-spirited, and ill-tempered....Oh wait! Thats describing me not steve. :)
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Originally posted by Murdr
Dont believe him, Ive known Steve a long time and he is cruel, mean-spirited, and ill-tempered....Oh wait! Thats describing me not steve. :)
:rofl
then it is my paranoia at work:(
sorry Steve I've been gettin alot a flak man:D
guess I was askin for it too, my bad
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>>I can (or I could when I flew) tell if someone was a dwee...er, newbie by a couple of things: 1) flying over 25K in a fighter, but never engaging anyone; 2) If they were killed more than once taking off from the same capped field. Oh, and 3) the dwee...er newbies always try to HO ya because to them that's the easiest way to engage in combat. The thought of actually employing ACM to merge hasn't occurred to them, yet.
<<
Only 2 has any merit, the rest is sour grapes because it made it harder for them to be killed. Yea I wish any higher plane I see was 5k lower but it don't work like that. I wish that plane didn't shoot my brains onto the winshield on a ho (aint that weird how the grey matter goes foward on a ho), but if he did, I screwed up.
2 cents, all green and yucky.
All for teaching acm, all against what people ridiculously label as dweebish. If its dweebish, kill them. If you can't well don't kill them on the board.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
I find ACM is more of a can't be taught kinda thing. I found it to be more of a the more you die the more you learn. No one person i think can teach ACM until teh "N00b" has a firm grip on how to do some and understands ACM. You cant teach a "N00b" who only ho's hopw to use rudders alone. He has to learn to use them through multiple deaths.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!
WRONG!
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Originally posted by SLO
you absolutely GOTTA learn fast planes, a good fighter uses all aspects of flight to his advantage.
the real good ones RED use a combo of BnZ, TnB and good SA.
the best do it with there eyes closed.
look for pictures of Flight Manuevers.
your good, you just need to apply Energy to your fighting skills.
soon we will get into REVERSALS :D
>soon we will get into REVERSALS :D
So, how come my planes don't have reverse?
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
>soon we will get into REVERSALS :D
So, how come my planes don't have reverse?
:rofl
ya didn't look hard enough, its right there man.
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Originally posted by SLO
you absolutely GOTTA learn fast planes, a good fighter uses all aspects of flight to his advantage.
the real good ones RED use a combo of BnZ, TnB and good SA.
the best do it with there eyes closed.
look for pictures of Flight Manuevers.
your good, you just need to apply Energy to your fighting skills.
soon we will get into REVERSALS :D
My SA suks. But its up from being worst than suking:rofl XJ and Stang took me to DA one night along with Doolittle. They taught me how to just suk instead of whatever is worst than that as I did.
Still..what is Combat Trim and Auto Trim do for ya? What is it?
FAST Planes ...hmmm..Flew a G10 the other day with BEANS...THERES another one that I would like to be as good as. BEANS...He is a HOOOOOOT to fly with.
Anyway..I died..promptly...Compressed that thing and drove it right to what ever is on the oppisette side on Mindano. Wasnt pretty.
Fast planes are angles right? AND..arent they a plane that you have to be sort of Timid with to keep that speed up? Or is it more of..Agressive conservative with?
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
BZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!
WRONG!
Care to explain?
He may not totally be correct, but in a sense he is right.. You cant teach anyone to fly like you fly, it comes with experience.. What i have always taught was basic theory of the move that needs to be used in an engagement. Teaching comes from preaching..
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To expand on what slo is saying.
There is the technical side of combat like:
Basic Acm (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9) Attack/Pursuit Modes (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7) Yo-Yos (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=10)
Then there is the tactical side which how and when you apply different technics. Are you going to have your E taken from you while kicking and screaming? Or are you going to just burn in guns'a'blazin with no thought to your energy state compaired to all nearby enemies (not just the one your attacking). SA plays a key role in tactical planning, as does energy managment. Doing some stints in the fast planes force you to learn to think tacticly.
Then in the broadest scope is the stretigic side. Which is basically sortie planning intending on being at the right place, at the right time, for an effective sortie. If you see certian people landing many kills over and over, it could indicate they have good technical and/or tactical skills, but doing it consistantly does indicate that they are planning their sorties well enough to engage alot of enmies and still stay out of trouble.
Many good pilots are great at one or two of these things, but I think what slo is getting at is its best to use all three.
What I mean by work backwords is that you are flying by instinct based on what you see. You are making a move because you just 'know' the right move to make. To explain it to someone else, you need to mentally review what just happened, and pick out their mistake.
I have an example from a recent koth, and this is all from memory. I was low and slow from a kill and the only other plane alive was comming in high. Even though he was higher I dove toward an eventual merge, which drew him into a dive. When I became so far under him that he had to invert, I started a hard immel, and when I seen he was so committed that he had no choice but to split-s, I broke from the half complete immel into a barrelroll to catch him at the bottom of his split-s. It worked perfectly. He said he didnt understand how I got him.
To break it down simply. I drew him into a situation where he had to either split-s or auger, and knowing that I simply went to where I knew he would end up. His mistake was allowing me to get his speed way up, then trying to invert on a lower/slower plane. That is like asking to be the victim of an overshoot manover.
At the time I knew exactly what to do when he inverted without thinking. If I can go back and figure out why I knew that, its easy to explain to someone else.
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I used to help ghosth alot in the TA... work has kind of thrown a wrench into things but i am still willing to help.
I fight.
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Ok so a plane going 250mph will generate more lift than the same plane going 150. So if you had that plane trimmed to go straight and level at 250mph when you slow down to 150 it would not stay level, it would nose down unless you adjusted the trim.
Combat trim-automatically trims your elevators for speed and aelirons for balance. If its on and you let go of the stick the nose will stay in the same basic direction. Without it if you let go of the stick it will go wherever the lift force, torque, and weight distribution take it. There are pros and cons to using/not using it.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Ok so a plane going 250mph will generate more lift than the same plane going 150. So if you had that plane trimmed to go straight and level at 250mph when you slow down to 150 it would not stay level, it would nose down unless you adjusted the trim.
Combat trim-automatically trims your elevators for speed and aelirons for balance. If its on and you let go of the stick the nose will stay in the same basic direction. Without it if you let go of the stick it will go wherever the lift force, torque, and weight distribution take it. There are pros and cons to using/not using it.
Ok...for now...I'll keep it as is and try my best to learn some new tactics. I may look you up as well in tha MA for some training. YOU TO SLO!!!! I just wnat to get better...Im CO of a squad and if they were to ask me a really important question...Im gonna look like an idiot. :rofl
Thanks for all the help..the links and advice. ANymore you have..Ill take.:)
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In WB's years ago... some of the best sticks in the game would hang out in the training arena on tuesday nights i think,
they would mostly be doggin with each other...
but if ya poped in to the arena, one of em would stop what they were doing and contact you and spend time discussing ACM and then spend time in your plane via masterview and watch ya fly awhile, then give ya a couple things to work on, and show ya how to do em. Guys like Daddy, Couger, Dawger and Tech all were great instructers and were able to express how to do ACM,
Being a good stick and having the ability and patience to teach others ACM can be compleatly different things.
Hope to see some guys step up and do it, How bout Sunday nights?
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Originally posted by WldThing
Care to explain?
He may not totally be correct, but in a sense he is right.. You cant teach anyone to fly like you fly, it comes with experience.. What i have always taught was basic theory of the move that needs to be used in an engagement. Teaching comes from preaching..
exactly. no one will learn to fly the way i can fly because the way you is unique. like your finger print. Each person you try to teach will try to take hold and grasp your tactic's but might find holes and fix them themslves. or might not fully understand it and will change it to the way they would like to fly.
ACM was a thing i had to learn all on my own. ACM is not just one move to get you on an enemies six. It is a series of well though out and instictive moves to get you on an enemies six. Ex a scissors doesn't guarntee to get you on an enemies six. I've had it happened many times while learning ACM that an enemy slows up when i think he is moving ubberly fast. ACM can not be teach but merely given an idea and having the studewnt try his best to do it. No one and i mean no one will fly like you do. Wldthing, Bigmax, fester, and shane all fly different way's, different planes, different styles, different alts, almost different everything.
The people that gave me my idea's were shane, wldthing and bigmax. ACM is motivation from how i learned it. I was motivated to beat wt, bm, or shane in a duel. Still haven't done it but still motivated to do. you try to train a an unmotivated pilot. you are just wasting your time imo.
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Didnt want to side-track the thread too far, so here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109558) is a decent discussion about combat vs. manual trim.
No prob redtop. www.netaces.org (http://www.netaces.org) Has a good library of write ups on varying technics and tactics too.
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Skull12, I understand what your getting at.
Here's the thing, AH has a steep learning curve. A little training will not instantly turn anyone into 'famous' players. What it will do is take a player who might otherwise get frustrated and quit, and give them the tools to make things enjoyable for them.
What you are in effect saying you cant teach someone their ABC's just because they cant speed-read shakespeer when they get to the letter Z.
Knowing a single ACM is like an aphabet letter.
Knowing an ACM series is like a word.
Understanding how different ACM series interact with each other is like a paragraph.
All that can be taught, and as I said, take months off the learning curve.
Does all that mean they can out duel anyone (or extending the metaphor) Write a best selling novel?
No, of course not, but you can teach the building blocks, and the rest is up to experience.
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That's why I can't fly worth a ****, because I spent to much time messing with the girls in English class.
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^ as you should be :D
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1999. My first year at on-line sims (AW). I was a really noob...even more than I am right now. It was very hard at the beginning..even frustrating..as you always die and you even dont know the reason. Then I learnt very fast and have fun..WHY??
1. GREEEEEAT LECTURES on internet by hot sticks....GAWD, BADZ, FLETCHMAN, vulture etc etc
2. EYE: He taught me that I had to have or alt or more speed than enemy before engagement. He also taught me how to approach and kill 1 enemy from dark views. (S)
3. 9B@LL: He taught me how to merge and how to make double-immelman. My biggest improvement ever!!!. THANK you brother :):): wherever you are.
So.......On-line sims went from a frustrating experience to a really fun experience. And it seems that it couldnt had been possible without help from other peolple.
THAT facts made me act in a similar way:
So...when I see new people who want realy have fun and learn but he/she is frustrating I teach him all i know. I have made it to 4-5 guys in my life. I spent between 30-50 hours for each of them. I taught them my skills and my vicious.
I didnt care if they were improving or not. They just understood why they died or why they killed. And their frustration finished :)
I taught them merges, ropes, gunnery, Situational Aw, evasives, double immelman, Cherry picking, etc etc.
It was fun for me and for them
An (S) to all who helped me ever!!!
ZAMO
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Originally posted by ZAMO
He taught me that I had to have alt or more speed than enemy before engagement.
So...when I see new people who want realy have fun and learn but he/she is frustrating I teach him all i know. I have made it to 4-5 guys in my life. I spent between 30-50 hours for each of them. I taught them my skills and my vicious.
I taught them merges, ropes, gunnery, Situational Aw, evasives, double immelman, Cherry picking, etc etc.
That accounts for 5-6 timid, running, cherry pickers who always have to have an advantage. How about the rest? ;)
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That accounts for 5-6 timid, running, cherry pickers who always have to have an advantage. How about the rest?
Are we talking about teaching newbies or an step forward?
Dont frustate them
1. I teach them to fight and kill
2. Did I mention they had fun?
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Originally posted by ZAMO
Are we talking about teaching newbies or an step forward?
Dont frustate them
Just kidding with ya Zamo. :p
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ok bud :):) :aok
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You have my apologies, if you weren't trying to insult them. I'm sort of the 'White Knight' and defend people where any perceived injustice has been done.
No hard feelings, Steve? :)
Originally posted by Steve
flame them? You're kidding right?
I was pokin a lil fun at Jaxxo and Slo, don't have bad thought for either one of them..
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Wow this thread was going somewhere.....oy yea..if anyone wants to help train newbs email me...
Zamo i saw your vulch runnin scared 190 land 11 kills yesterday. Your invited as a a student. :P
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oh yea spent an hour flying "no guns" with a guy in da last night...was great. Unfortunately i couldnt offer him too many tips for the f6f...thus more trainers are needed.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
Zamo i saw your vulch runnin scared 190 land 11 kills yesterday. Your invited as a a student. :P
Just curious...if you're in a 190, how do you fly?
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Nice setup on that Spit last night, Jaxxo. That was some fine stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by phookat
Just curious...if you're in a 190, how do you fly?
Aggressively. The Dora is so fast and accelerates so well that it was designed for aggressive flying. Aggressiveness does not equate to turnfighting, but it does mean that when you hold all the cards, you push the point against other, less capable planes.
Unlike Zekes or Hurricanes or many of the Spitfires, the Dora and other fast planes can fly aggressively and then exit and reset if things begin going badly.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Steve
flame them? You're kidding right?
I was pokin a lil fun at Jaxxo and Slo, don't have bad thought for either one of them.. well excpet for maybe Slo's political leanings.*
* A note for Delirium: This was poking more fun, I'll do this from now on when you are involved in a thread.*2
*2 A note to Delirium: That was poking fun at you. :)
Heh, kinda like "let me know if i've done anything to offend you.........and I'll do it again."
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Best ways to learn how to fight:
1: You have to want to get better--there are folks in this game that have been at it for years and are completely content at getting a P51 with 2 eggs to a base and dropping their ordinance before the ack gets them.
2: You have to fly a lot of sorties and die a lot
3: Do some reading; although reading doesn’t help if you can't understand the concept or how to apply it to your fight.
4: Watch a lot of films.
5: Understand the strengths and weakness of your fighter and how it performs against other fighters. Try to stick with 1 particular fighter in the beginning.
6: Be content with trying to get on somebody’s' 6'oclock and follow them through their moves.
7: The EUREKA factor: This comes eventually--usually involved with finally understanding a particular move and when to apply that move. I.E. Wow I can do something other than a flat turn against an opponent.
My 2 cents
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Thanx levi. I actually only started flying the 109 a few days ago. Someone gave me a good tip on spiral climb and rope in the 109. First time i tried it was when u saw me :) Anyway it inspired me to start this thread. Hopefully some pilots will step forward and reveal their tips and secrets.
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Levi is right about the 190d. Its is however annoying when folks avoid all engagement with similair plane types..similair alt..etc. by diving out and hauling arse. Even the running part isnt that bad its the running straight to the runway for a quick cherry before they leave that annoys me. I came in to a field at 14k in an fm2 last night and saw 4 coalt 190's instantly dive out and run from me...these are the guys that i would like to help lol. I think gameplay would get alot better. there is so much posturing and ego tripping in the ma that newbs are afraid to learn by dying all the time . Cant blame them its no fun, so its pick the fastest plane, vulch,and go land your 3 kills if your lucky.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Aggressiveness does not equate to turnfighting
Yes, that is the point I wanted to make. Agree with the rest too, nice post.
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One quick way to learn is to ride along with a good stick, I rode one afternoon for like 10 flights with WildThng, man what an education, he was taking short pull shots at planes and getting kills way before I would even think about it, he was anticipating the plane's position way before I could... It helped me realize how he gets those kills, I now pay more attention to the planes sounds, ie. lots players chopping throttle for those turns, and taking those snap shots at where they will be, instead of where they are, if that makes sense...
I ain't no ace, will always be the resident noob :)
But it is lots more fun knowing you at least got a chance against some of these guys...
I go into TA arena once in awhile, but it seems that no one really wants to learn the fine art of augering after a 10k dive, I do it with such grace, too bad I can't pass on my knowledge
NwBie
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i'm glad the 2 things i always tell people that are very important, have come up. proves i'm not a complete idiot :D
Anticipation and Agressivness.
Anticipate your opponents next move, and set about putting yourself in an advantageous position or shooting opportunity on it.
Agressiveness - do something your opponent will not expect, like feint an attack, make your opponent evade and while he is doing that, hit him with the real attack. Chances are he will have lost sight of you and will not be in a position to reverse.
I tend to turnfight anything in anything for a turn or two. chances are you will get your shot if they don't expect you to. If you are losing, than its time to extend and reverse.
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Then there is the tactical side which how and when you apply different technics. Are you going to have your E taken from you while kicking and screaming? Or are you going to just burn in guns'a'blazin with no thought to your energy state compaired to all nearby enemies (not just the one your attacking). SA plays a key role in tactical planning, as does energy managment. Doing some stints in the fast planes force you to learn to think tacticly.
Good post
I try to keep My E as best as possible. Not just for the first opponent but for the next few that will be coming along.
I try to think tactically about the fight. It's like a chess game, I try to know what my opponent is going to do ahead of time. I want to act, not react. There are definitely guys out there who are much better at ACM than me. I think I do well with tactics, energy management, and SA, so I do my best to out-think my opponent.
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No hard feelings, Steve?
'Course not. :)
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AKAK the best acm any p38 pilot can do is run away and land when they see a jug! :)
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Buy youself pedals, stick and throttle.
Get some plane which requires use of throttle, pedals and stick (f6f, yakU are fine for the start, then you can switch to something heavier) and fly it to enemy base at 3k.
When you die, which will happen very soon, get plane up and fly it there again.
After some months of frustration you will find that you can outfly almost anyone who starts at 800 at your 6.
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Originally posted by YUCCA
AKAK the best acm any p38 pilot can do is run away and land when they see a jug! :)
LOL!
ack-ack
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Basicly you need to get the crap kicked out of you by someone who is a great stick to really get to learning what your true limits are. And when you get to those limits push them even further. Die, die die, and die some more but make sure everytime you die you think about what it was that got you killed, what you did and how it all came together.
Thats really all there is to becoming better. Lots and lots of dying. err practice.
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Originally posted by YUCCA
AKAK the best acm any p38 pilot can do is run away and land when they see a jug! :)
:)
lol right
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Originally posted by RedTop
Ok...for now...I'll keep it as is and try my best to learn some new tactics. I may look you up as well in tha MA for some training. YOU TO SLO!!!! I just wnat to get better...Im CO of a squad and if they were to ask me a really important question...Im gonna look like an idiot. :rofl
Thanks for all the help..the links and advice. ANymore you have..Ill take.:)
Damnit! i knew we should have made me CO, and you XO!!
lol j/k mate.....
.....your much Older and wiser than me any how! :rofl
but ive done a little real life flying and could try and answer any questions
these guys dont (although most of 'em know far more than me)
(ok, i'll be quiet now before i get thrown out ):p
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Originally posted by slimm50
I can (or I could when I flew) tell if someone was a dwee...er
Heck, I can now. If I kill em....they gotta be a dweeb :).
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The 190 with the exception of the dora takes patience and precision to be one of the l33t pilots' Complete depends on the mission. If you need to do some general fighting then choose the A5. with how well it is able to move roll and its nice gun package it is the best in this roll. The A8 is for taking out big object's I find the l33t 190 pilots like to fly this. (few of them in the squad im in) Between it's gun package and its high speed capibilites if will pwn just about anything if flown right. The F8 is going to get pwn3d no matter what type of roll you fly it in. Fighter is sucks. big time. Attack, you have a better chance of living in a stuka. But it has an advantage which is that 190 icon.
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Originally posted by WldThing
Care to explain?
He may not totally be correct, but in a sense he is right. You cant teach anyone to fly like you fly, it comes with experience. What i have always taught was basic theory of the move that needs to be used in an engagement. Teaching comes from preaching..
Well, it's not a 100% disagreement....
1) cause I'm an idiot.
2) You can teach how important SA is, and you can teach how to perform ACM.
Every time you die it's because you neglected SA, you let someone get on your 6 or allowed yourself to be gang banged.
Every ACM can be taught, moreover, every ACM can be taught as when to use, what situations calls for which ACMs.
The more time a vet spends with a newbie the more\faster they understand. The more the newbie understands, the longer his\her life expectancy. The longer the life exspectancy, the more time the newbie can practice SA\ACM, the faster they get experience, the longer they stay in the game.
The idea is to not only help re-supply the target enviroment with quality fights, it's also to show someone else how to help another player and pass on what they have learned or were taught, and how.
It helps create a short cut past the newbie level where fustration causes account cancelation.
It helps create a community cycle. Most players who were helped, will help other players, most likely in the same way they were taught. Anything you teach is going to contain bits of your style of flying, and way of thinking.
When you teach, your only return to ask for is that the newbie helps someone else when they feel they can.
Teaching can also be done in an informal way by telling the loser of a dogfight where they went wrong, instead of bantering what a god you are for doing it. Learning of SA\ACM never stops, nor does teaching it.
While experience is the key, how to live long enough to get more experience can be taught.
As I said above your pay back is a faster resupply of a target enviroment of quality fights. Quality fights = more fun, more fun = less sniveling, less sniveling means more fun for everyone. The more fun the higher the level of teaching and learning can be done. The faster the wheel turns.
A little mellow dramatic , but you get the point.
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yeah Yeah real acm consists of this hang around 5k above a gaggle of Bishnits . pick them out as they're not looking and when they get close enough nose over and dive with Wep won or just out climb them. That's what ACM is all about. Once you need to use your "1337" skills to get out of a jam you fugged up :D
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Originally posted by mechanic
Damnit! i knew we should have made me CO, and you XO!!
lol j/k mate.....
.....your much Older and wiser than me any how! :rofl
but ive done a little real life flying and could try and answer any questions
these guys dont (although most of 'em know far more than me)
(ok, i'll be quiet now before i get thrown out ):p
LOL....Get back here and Fly..then I dont have to look so stupid here on this BBS....I can just sound it on VOX. :lol
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Originally posted by Steve
Good post
I try to keep My E as best as possible. Not just for the first opponent but for the next few that will be coming along.
I try to think tactically about the fight. It's like a chess game, I try to know what my opponent is going to do ahead of time. I want to act, not react. There are definitely guys out there who are much better at ACM than me. I think I do well with tactics, energy management, and SA, so I do my best to out-think my opponent.
That's exactly how I approach the game as well. Intelligence and meticulous tactics beat arcade game reflexes 9 out of 10 times. If you have decent flying ability (knowledge of advanced acm's) and also fly intelligently and tactically sound you are going to be very successfull in the MA, it's just a fact. Flying ability alone does not guarentee success in the MA. The three most important factors that contribute to MA success are, in order:
1) Gunnery
2) Situational Awareness/Tactics
3) Flying ability (knowledge of advanced acm's)
Anecdotal commentary from actual WW2 fighter pilots agree with this order of importance. Flying ability alone in the relative absence of the other two abilities is purely defensive in nature. Gunnery and tactics are what largely define your offensive capability, or your ability to kill efficiently (even with no regard for surviving an engagement).
Having some gunnery skill and situational awareness does permit some success in the MA however. As evidence I give you the plethora of La7 drivers who have very little if any actual flying skill (knowledge of advanced acm's) but can still consistantly score some victories and often land them purely by virtue of possessing some gunnery skill and SA.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Furball
whats an acm?
Avoid Combat Manuevers.
:D
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lol :D
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read the new book by "crutch" since long a warbirds trainer.
Its called "check 6"
As many of you are old Warbirders he doesnt need too much of an intruduction
as you have been in his killbuffer too often
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?q3=hAaP3oDE4Gs%253d
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Redtop:
Regarding trim: Don't worry about the trim stuff until you get the ACM terminology down. I think you understand more about ACM than you think, it may just be the names of the moves you already know and use thats missing. Put your trim into auto mode, it works well at any speeds other than compression or stall.
Regarding keeping your E: It does not matter what plane you fly or how well it turns, retaining your energy is always something you should strive for. Last night I was in an FM2, dove into a valley to kill some spit5s that were swarming. There was about 12 reds and about 9 greens in that valley. I came in fast (was only about 10K but that is high for the Wildcat) and about the time I was co-alt I saw there were only 1 or 2 greens left and many of the reds were La7s. I decided to keep my speed, went level and actually flew away from about 4 La7s (who had gotten slow in the furball). I drew three of them out of the mess (past icon range of the rest) and killed two before the third ran (by then I was slow). My guess is they saw a F4F running away from a slow fight and assumed I was a noob. The point being that just because you are in a spit5 doesn't mean you should always dump your E. Take up a spit9 sometime and fly it like a 190D (assume you cannot flat-turn more than 270 degrees without stalling), the Spi9 is a hell of a speedy E-fighter if you let it be one.
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OK,
first, don't be nice to Steve. He keeps shooting me down. Alt monkey :D
Second, RedTop, combat trim, stal limiters, etc are just hardware setings. Nothing to do with ACM. You make the right moves and the red guy is dead. Does not mater how mach he is triming the thing manuly or what plane he is in. And by the way, you don;t need to know what the thing you or the red guy did is called as long as you end up on his six.
PS. maybe I'll switch sides for a night just so you can get some easy kills.
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Intelligence and meticulous tactics beat arcade game reflexes 9 out of 10 times. If you have decent flying ability (knowledge of advanced acm's) and also fly intelligently and tactically sound you are going to be very successfull in the MA, it's just a fact.
Zazen ... so, if thats what it takes, then how do you explain your success ... ;)
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Originally posted by dedalos
OK,
first, don't be nice to Steve. He keeps shooting me down. Alt monkey :D
Second, RedTop, combat trim, stal limiters, etc are just hardware setings. Nothing to do with ACM. You make the right moves and the red guy is dead. Does not mater how mach he is triming the thing manuly or what plane he is in. And by the way, you don;t need to know what the thing you or the red guy did is called as long as you end up on his six.
PS. maybe I'll switch sides for a night just so you can get some easy kills.
Those may be things that he doesn't have to worry about when flying a Spit, but if you fly a P-38, F6-F, F4-U, and the like, I would suggest using manual trim (elevator). You will get a lot more out of the plane if you do ... especially the P-38 IMHO.
RedTop ... Ded is right ... you don't really need to know what the manuvers are called (might be nice but not necessary) just as long as you end up on the bogey's six.
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As evidence I give you the plethora of La7 drivers who have very little if any actual flying skill (knowledge of advanced acm's) but can still consistantly score some victories and often land them purely by virtue of possessing some gunnery skill and SA.
Come on Zaz ... you much too good to be whining about La-7s. Unless the likes of a Shane or Urchin are in an La-7, they are basically lunch if they stick around to fight.
There is only 1 plane that I fear and it's the Zeke. If I don't get him on the first pass, usually with a high deflection shot, and have a pocket full of E, then I am outta there pronto and try to set up again under better conditions.
Thats it !!! ... perk the Zeke ... it turns too good ... it must be uber !!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Those may be things that he doesn't have to worry about when flying a Spit, but if you fly a P-38, F6-F, F4-U, and the like, I would suggest using manual trim (elevator). You will get a lot more out of the plane if you do ... especially the P-38 IMHO.
RedTop ... Ded is right ... you don't really need to know what the manuvers are called (might be nice but not necessary) just as long as you end up on the bogey's six.
True, you will get more out of the plane. The point I am trying to make is that if you make the right decisions, you will win. For example, rember a few weeks ago you shot me down 10 times in a row? If we were in 38s and I was using manual trim and had stall limiter off and you did not, you think it would have made a difference? By the way, before our fights the same moves (in a 51) had taken down 2 yacks and a spit V. Even the right moves are not always right. 50% of it is what the bad guy does. After a merge you have a split second to look back and deside what he is doing. Considering that you have already start your moves in advance, you may get in a situation where even though you started right, the bud guy did the unexpected and you are now doing the wrong thing.
PS. next time, U dead
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Fly aggressive as hell, get down and dirty, ho every la7 tard you see, and try to fly in front of Morph's tracers every chance you get. It's a blast!!
Btw Slappy, great fight the other day!
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If we were in 38s and I was using manual trim and had stall limiter off and you did not, you think it would have made a difference?
Absofugginlutly ... I kid you not. It is my experience that when flying the P-38 with combat trim on, you might as well be flhying a school bus. There are some P-38 jocks that do use Combat Trim and are very successful, but it doesn'w work for me. Under those conditions, I would believe that you would win most engagements.
I won't argue the point that making the right decisions at the merge or after, play a big part in winning the engagement, but making the plane do the things that you have decided is no small part either in winning or getting out of a bad situation.
PS. next time, U dead
Looking forward to it ... you and RedTop are much fun to fight with. I believe that you are Knight, so you only have a couple of days left. We should be rotating to the Knights next Tour.
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Originally posted by Stang
Fly aggressive as hell, get down and dirty, ho every la7 tard you see, and try to fly in front of Morph's tracers every chance you get. It's a blast!!
Btw Slappy, great fight the other day!
Yes it was !!!
I swear that we were so close and slow that I could count the rivets on that F4U-1. Got a real up close look at the flaps fully extended. Wish I had some cannons tho ... the outcome might have been different ... ;)
Is the ground crew still trying to patch up all those 303 holes ? ... LOL
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I counted 6 holes on my right wing, 4 on the left, 2 huge holes in my canopy and a huge crack that ran across the top of my gunsite LOL!
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Fun fights last night, Stang, particularly that one where we both dumped 10k alt to try to merge under each other. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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What were you doin over 10k? I'm callin bullchit!
:D
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Originally posted by Steve
What were you doin over 10k? I'm callin bullchit!
You know me. I tend to hit autoclimb and then go afk for awhile. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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In Todd's defense, it was about a 25 mile flight to the fight... everyone else probably ran away lol.
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Originally posted by Stang
In Todd's defense, it was about a 25 mile flight to the fight... everyone else probably ran away lol.
You know, it's funny you should mention that. I've noticed in the last few months that all of the fights I find tend to gravitate toward either the enemy's base or my own. Very few furballs seem to concentrate in the middle anymore, at least not for long.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Yup, now it has gotten to the point where people only vulch or get vulched, there aren't very many good fights at alt between fields anymore :(
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Originally posted by Stang
Yup, now it has gotten to the point where people only vulch or get vulched, there aren't very many good fights at alt between fields anymore :(
ahem ... I beg your pardon !
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Originally posted by SlapShot
ahem ... I beg your pardon !
Yeah, stop vulching me Slap :mad:
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Originally posted by Stang
Yup, now it has gotten to the point where people only vulch or get vulched, there aren't very many good fights at alt between fields anymore :(
While that is generally true, there are SOME high alt fights, they just don't last long. One guy will begin to lose angles and then dive for the deck. The fact that the furballs don't stay in the middle is just a coincidence, like the natural ebb and flow of battle. A rook/nit furball seems to flow less than the rook/bish ones. The bish seem to die en masse, which also means they up and enter the fray en masse about 5 minutes later :D
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Originally posted by dedalos
Yeah, stop vulching me Slap :mad:
LOL ... mid-air vulching is OK ... ;)
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Think it best to learn SA first.
Then learn some basic acm.
Great rules for situational awareness.
1.) Location....close to nme air field where planes will up quickly?
2.) Number of enemies and alt. Always fight from top down.
engage biggest threats and potential threats first.
3.) Type of aircraft in fight...faster? better climbing etc.
4.) Rule of thumb....don't get mad at pilot who shot you down.
Get mad at yourself....you put yourself into position to be a
target. Make the others targets....not you.
All the ACM in the world isn't going to help you if you've got 5 aircraft on your 6 and they're faster.....you're 30 feet above the deck and headed into the nme airbase ack to avoid being shot down because you've forgotten where you are. And there are 6 planes on the nme airbase runways taking off.
Placing ACM before SA to me like putting cart before the horse
Plan your attack by knowing the situation.....even if you've no ACM experience if you dive down high E and climb away from the threat with speed....that is ACM. When you get down and dirty in a one vs. one then ACM is imperative....but getting into that 1 vs. 1 situation utilizes SA first....then ACM.
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I wouldn't mind learning a few ACM's in a FW190 (A5, D9, whatever)
Right now I'm doing alright, but yes, I do HO alot. It's not the only thing I go for, and certainly not my first choice, but if it's sitting there, I take them. You have to admit, although it is very, very dweeby, taking an A8 with some 30mm cannons HO can be fun for a change :D
Nevertheless, I don't feel like being a newbie forever in this regard, but there are just some planes I can't seem to deal with! Also, I really don't like going much over 10-12k so having a better understanding on how to fight-fight would really improve my K/D, and make the game more fun for everyone else.
It just seems like after a non-HO merge, if I have E I'm going for spiral-climb or zoom rope-a-dope, and not much else. If he has the E, it's usually a series of Split-S's. I'd like to add some more tricks if anyone's interested in turning me into a more respectable pilot.
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Originally posted by Vudak
I wouldn't mind learning a few ACM's in a FW190 (A5, D9, whatever)
Right now I'm doing alright, but yes, I do HO alot. It's not the only thing I go for, and certainly not my first choice, but if it's sitting there, I take them. You have to admit, although it is very, very dweeby, taking an A8 with some 30mm cannons HO can be fun for a change :D
Nevertheless, I don't feel like being a newbie forever in this regard, but there are just some planes I can't seem to deal with! Also, I really don't like going much over 10-12k so having a better understanding on how to fight-fight would really improve my K/D, and make the game more fun for everyone else.
It just seems like after a non-HO merge, if I have E I'm going for spiral-climb or zoom rope-a-dope, and not much else. If he has the E, it's usually a series of Split-S's. I'd like to add some more tricks if anyone's interested in turning me into a more respectable pilot.
resist the temptation to HO completely and focus on the other merge options. By the time you have performed the attempted HO you have handed the angles adv to the other guy, which then reduces your options dramatically.
save the HO for when you are outnumberd and desperate .
there are many threads on this in "help and training"
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Originally posted by Hajo
Think it best to learn SA first.
Then learn some basic acm.
Great rules for situational awareness.
1.) Location....close to nme air field where planes will up quickly?
2.) Number of enemies and alt. Always fight from top down.
engage biggest threats and potential threats first.
3.) Type of aircraft in fight...faster? better climbing etc.
4.) Rule of thumb....don't get mad at pilot who shot you down.
Get mad at yourself....you put yourself into position to be a
target. Make the others targets....not you.
All the ACM in the world isn't going to help you if you've got 5 aircraft on your 6 and they're faster.....you're 30 feet above the deck and headed into the nme airbase ack to avoid being shot down because you've forgotten where you are. And there are 6 planes on the nme airbase runways taking off.
Placing ACM before SA to me like putting cart before the horse
Plan your attack by knowing the situation.....even if you've no ACM experience if you dive down high E and climb away from the threat with speed....that is ACM. When you get down and dirty in a one vs. one then ACM is imperative....but getting into that 1 vs. 1 situation utilizes SA first....then ACM.
Got my vote, Hajo :cool:
what I find interesting is the fact that everyone in this thread never brought up that ACM's is different than BFM
BFM = Basic flight Maneuvers
ACM = Air Combat Maneuvering
you got to know BFM before you can do ACM, and ACM is a combination of 2 or more BFMs that are decided upon & executed during an given fight depending on what the opponet is doing. There are no set ways. One could go from a immelman to a low yo-yo to a spiral climb to a split s or immelman to immelman to split-s. To know ACM is to have the knowledge of BFM and the acquired ability to perform such BFMs in a fluid like motion without hesitation when the situation calls for it , react to the fight don't think and go "what do I do now"! If you have the knowledge of BFMs with time you will learn when to use what maneuver and when not to use it.
so learn all the different BFMs there are to learn, then practice switching them up with a friend while fighting each other, or get with a long time player or Trainer and let them explain it to you in further detail and give you some things to practice on etc.........
anyhow. I just wanted to bring jaxxo's thread back up since I thought he had a great idea/suggestion!!! :aok
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Originally posted by Stang
Yup, now it has gotten to the point where people only vulch or get vulched, there aren't very many good fights at alt between fields anymore :(
:D I ll tell you what. If next time we meet you let me off the runway, I promise to kill you after we fight and not during the vulch atempt.
:lol JK
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Originally posted by RedTop
.I have no idea what ACM really is. I don't really no what an immelman vs. a split s is.
You're right, you don't know what ACM is. Immelmans and split S's are BCM.
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actually if you really want to get technical about BFM, ACM, ACT etc.......
check out Badboy's article below:
Transferable Skills in Simulated Air Combat (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/skills/index.shtml)
it is a great read........
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Originally posted by Hajo
Think it best to learn SA first.
All the ACM in the world isn't going to help you if you've got 5 aircraft on your 6 and they're faster.....you're 30 feet above the deck and headed into the nme airbase ack to avoid being shot down because you've forgotten where you are. And there are 6 planes on the nme airbase runways taking off.
Were you in my La5 last night? I don't remember the join request...
Magoo
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RedTopp, I too have a problem with the terminology of flight manuevers. I have battled any "Elite" pilot that takes time to log out MA and in DA. The majority of comments that I heard were "you're too timid". I always felt why do they say this, I am trying to kill them. Recently, I am realizing what they were seeing in me. IMHO it is just as important to be "extremely" aggressive in your attack on the enemy while learning countering manuevers as well. Right now I am trying to learn as many different ways to kill the guy d600 my 6 as possible. Not just get out alive but kill him dead. I suggest that learning the SpitV manuevers with planes like Jugs, ponies, hogs, and hellcats will greatly enhance ur SpitV manuevers. I do not claim to be a real good pilot but dying as much as I have, You just learn things. Mostly SA is key to landing multiple kill sorties in MA. It can be easy to outfly a guy in a tight dogfight but to celebrate by being cherrypicked takes fun away. :-)
P.S. Sorry for babbling. Jaxxo, yes I do go to DA and teach newbs all that I know, which isnt much. hee hee But you would be surprised by how many newbs fly la7's cause they can see out the back default. most common is setting views, wep, just basic stuff. I also have been telling the guys how the initial merge HO is lowclass. which is what I have come to believe. ::cool:
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4th and wayyyyyy long.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
IMHO it is just as important to be "extremely" aggressive in your attack on the enemy while learning countering manuevers as well. Right now I am trying to learn as many different ways to kill the guy d600 my 6 as possible. Not just get out alive but kill him dead.
Amen!!!
This is simply the best way to get better in a hurry. I'd suggest using film too to see what happens and especially what moves more veteran players use against you and how to counter them.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Right now I am trying to learn as many different ways to kill the guy d600 my 6 as possible. Not just get out alive but kill him dead.
I know of 2 easy ways to do that.
1) Fly a buff
2) Fly a spit
:D
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I applaud Jaxxo, Del, Lute and others who practice good gaming and simming. This really is an advanced version of any video combat sim and really does require training to be somewhat competitive believe it or not. I must say there is no substitute for practice and HANDS on experience. Good luck to all ESPECIALLY the 38 who augered 4 times in a row while tryin' to kill me lala.
Wont mention names.
Egos are important here ...... not.
Sorry :-(
Now that my sentimental stuuf is out of the way,
DIE STINKY BISH and STRATO ROOKS
WMharp
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Jaxxo i'm in. maybe ill finally learn how to beat you lol:aok
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So.....how do I set up a training session. I sometimes feel like I'm doing ok but have been handed my butt by several folks mentioned in here (Lute, Morph, Levi, Wildthing...just to mention a few).
I can stay safe by keeping the advantage and bugging when I lose it but I'm wanting to get better with the tnb stuff. I'm not so hot with the 1 v 1 lets go turnfight stuff. Lately I've been getting out of the Mustang and flying the 38 (manual trim...what a nightmare first starting out) and the 109 (g and f). I've also kept the target alt's to around 10-15k to force the disadvantaged situation to occur more frequently. Unfortunately I lost many of the 1 v 1 similar plane fights I get into...unless I get discouraged and grab a stang. I really don't see what I'm doing wrong in these fights and I've lost a boatload of em.
Little Help Here??
Zaphod
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Originally posted by Zaphod
So.....how do I set up a training session. I sometimes feel like I'm doing ok but have been handed my butt by several folks mentioned in here (Lute, Morph, Levi, Wildthing...just to mention a few).
I can stay safe by keeping the advantage and bugging when I lose it but I'm wanting to get better with the tnb stuff. I'm not so hot with the 1 v 1 lets go turnfight stuff. Lately I've been getting out of the Mustang and flying the 38 (manual trim...what a nightmare first starting out) and the 109 (g and f). I've also kept the target alt's to around 10-15k to force the disadvantaged situation to occur more frequently. Unfortunately I lost many of the 1 v 1 similar plane fights I get into...unless I get discouraged and grab a stang. I really don't see what I'm doing wrong in these fights and I've lost a boatload of em.
Little Help Here??
Zaphod
Check out the 479th film library for some good 38 films (you'll find the link if you search the forums), and get a decent pilot into the DA. A lot of the better pilots are almost always willing to give you some tips if you ask em. You might want to start digging through old posts on the help and training forum.
-pellik
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Originally posted by jaxxo
I was just thinking. The so called "elite" pilots of AH2 seem to be on a different level than the rest of us. I would like to see squads taking turns in the training arena teaching some of the younger guys some moves. I know it would be a pain in the arse listening to the inane questions but IMO its a great way to start getting to a higher level of gameplay in the MA. Cause it kinda sux right now. You all can admit it. Even the squads that have great sticks and wing well together have to get bored of slaughtering these newbs...well maybe not....but something has to be done. Im going to make an effort to train some folks...some others care to step up? Would love to shedule an open class for the acm challenged.
I thought we all agreed a couple of weeks ago that it's gunnery that counts and acm doesn't???
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Originally posted by jaxxo
I would like to see squads taking turns in the training arena teaching some of the younger guys some moves. I know it would be a pain in the arse listening to the inane questions but IMO its a great way to start getting to a higher level of gameplay in the MA.
i know this is a little, late but i think its a great idea and would love some new training and would be happy to pass on what little i may know..
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Originally posted by pellik
Check out the 479th film library for some good 38 films (you'll find the link if you search the forums), and get a decent pilot into the DA. A lot of the better pilots are almost always willing to give you some tips if you ask em. You might want to start digging through old posts on the help and training forum.
-pellik
Thanks pellik :).
Zaphod
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i may have to turn Combat Trim off in my 38 one of these days...
then again, maybe not. dont think this old dog can learn any new tricks.
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I'm not an ace pilot in AH, in fact I seldom fly a fighter. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. (Hi Wadke =o)
People want to learn ACM, but there is some confusion of what ACM is and how it fits into combat fighting. ACM for the most part is the basic handling of your plane. It consists of making the plane change direction. It's the vertical moves using the elevators, the horizontal moves using the rudder, and rolling the plane around it's axis. These basic moves are compounded into maneuvers such as the loop, Immel, split s, turn, yoyo, aileron roll, barrel roll and sissors. It's important to be able to perform these basic maneuvers well while retaining energy. But you must then apply these to any situation in air combat. This is where the aces shine.
What I'm talking about is air combat tactics. This is where you put it all together to make it work for you. It only partly involves ACM, like surfing partly involves breathing. It involves the plane you are flying, the plane of your opponent, how many opponents you face, the relative properties (speed and altitude), your armament, and an objective. (Is your objecive to gain air superiority or bomb an enemy installation?) You must be able to react to the situation at hand with a purpose, knowing what the affect of each maneuver will be. For example, you know how to cause your plane to slip. How can this be used to your advantage in the situation at hand? It's like planning out a series of chess moves based upon what you anticipate to be your opponents intention and likely response.
It's this tactical part that you ultimately need to learn, and unfortunately for me you can't learn it at the Holiday Inn. Robert Shaw's book on "Fighter Combat" will help a lot.
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as posted on page 3 of this thread:
check out badboy's article
Transferable Skills in Simulated Air Combat (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/skills/index.shtml)
to understand the difference in
AHC
BFM
ACM
ACT
etc
etc
there is alot of misconceptions as to what the abreviations stand for and this should clear up any misunderstandings
is a good read...enjoy