Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on July 22, 2004, 11:46:51 PM
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According to the report, he then asked another hijacker in the cockpit, "Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?"
"Yes, put it in it, and pull it down," the other responded.
The passengers continued with their assault, trying to break through the cockpit door. At 10:02 a.m. and 23 seconds, a hijacker said, "Pull it down! Pull it down!"
"The hijackers remained at the controls but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them," the report concludes.
"The airplane headed down; the control wheel was turned hard to the right. The airplane rolled onto its back, and one of the hijackers began shouting, 'Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.'
"With the sounds of the passenger counter-attack continuing, the aircraft plowed into an empty field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, at 580 miles per hour, about 20 minutes' flying time from Washington, D.C."
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Allah can kiss my ass.
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In that context, "Allah is the greatest" means, "Mommy!"
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We used to use "uncle".
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It's a small world.
One of the students in the first junior high class I ever taught was a young, pretty blonde named Deena Burchfield. That was in the fall of 1977.
Two days after 9/11, I learned that her husband, Thomas Burnett, had been on flight 93, and was one of the passengers who stormed the cockpit.
God bless him. I hope he got some licks in before the impact.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
It's a small world.
One of the students in the first junior high class I ever taught was a young, pretty blonde named Deena Burchfield. That was in the fall of 1977.
Two days after 9/11, I learned that her husband, Thomas Burnett, had been on flight 93, and was one of the passengers who stormed the cockpit.
God bless him. I hope he got some licks in before the impact.
the fact that they prevented the aircraft from reaching intended target is good enough for unlimited weekend passes over to valhalla in my book.
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One of my proffesors is a close friend of the Beamer family; Todd Beamer was the passenger on Flight 93 who is famous for the words "Let's Roll" as our counterattack began on 911. These words were a long time motto for the Beamer family.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
One of my proffesors is a close friend of the Beamer family; Todd Beamer was the passenger on Flight 93 who is famous for the words "Let's Roll" as our counterattack began on 911. These words were a long time family saying of the Beamer family.
grunherz you live in sf bay area in ca.?
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Yea
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For some reason I thought you lived in New York. :confused:
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Hell, I thought he lived in a cardboard box under the I-20 bridge in Dallas.
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the guess was from one of his profs knowing beamer. i went to hs with beamer for a year. didnt know him and didnt find out about it until i read about beamer in detail in late 2002. but the hs he went to is in sf bay area.
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You went to Los Gatos?
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Originally posted by Yeager
concludes.
"
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Allah can kiss my ass.
So you are saying, "God can kiss my ass"?
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Yeag,
Allah is not the problem here.
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Allah doesnt exist, but a bunch of mentally ill arabs (extremists) do.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You went to Los Gatos?
yeah for a year. was really nice there. half hour from good surfing. wish i could have stayed.
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Yeager there's 1,2 billion muslims trying to kill you but no reason to be schitsophrenic , it wont hurt when they cut your head off :)
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Allah doesnt exist
continually, some Americans amaze the rest of us with their absolute stupidity and arrogance. Please tell me that you are saying this because you do not believe in God, and not because you think the Islamic faith is bogus...
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Originally posted by Staga
Yeager there's 1,2 billion muslims trying to kill you but no reason to be schitsophrenic , it wont hurt when they cut your head off :)
\
another funny from finland
:rolleyes:
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Yeager there's 1,2 billion muslims trying to kill you
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:lol that number can be considerably reduced in a very short period of time.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
continually, some Americans amaze the rest of us with their absolute stupidity and arrogance. Please tell me that you are saying this because you do not believe in God, and not because you think the Islamic faith is bogus...
dealt with many muslims. when it came up in conversation they consider 'Allah' and Christian 'God' to be one and the same. i think they differ at jesus and mohammed.
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Originally posted by anonymous
dealt with many muslims. when it came up in conversation they consider 'Allah' and Christian 'God' to be one and the same. i think they differ at Jesus and mohammed.
thye believe Jesus was a prophet fortelling the comming of the "real" messiah mohammed.
they do not believe Jesus was crucified, or any part of the ressurection.
as far as the Christian Old Testament, i dont know their beliefs.
i believe that they think mohammed came around 300-500 Anno Domini but im not exactly sure of the date
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Originally posted by Yeager
Allah can kiss my ass.
You never cease to amaze me.
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You never cease to amaze me.
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I am inspired to wit. A song with lyrics is called for. I will spin up Sonar3 and get bz this evening.
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Originally posted by Staga
Yeager there's 1,2 billion muslims trying to kill you but no reason to be schitsophrenic , it wont hurt when they cut your head off :)
I'm not afraid of the 1.2 Billion Muslims...
It's the Liberal's that support them that scare me.
But they can all Kiss my ass.
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They can take their Code of Hammurabi and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Yeager, I agree, Allah can kiss my bellybutton too.
Karaya
PS - I'm Catholic.
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thye believe Jesus was a prophet fortelling the comming of the "real" messiah mohammed.
They do not believe Mohammed was the Messiah, they believe Mohammed was the last and greatest of the prophets.
To a Muslim, only God is devine, Mohammed was just a man, and not someone to be worshiped.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
They can take their Code of Hammurabi and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Yeager, I agree, Allah can kiss my bellybutton too.
Karaya
PS - I'm Catholic.
Theres a "so called" catholic saying God can kiss his bellybutton too!
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Any God who demands the sacrifice of innocents in his name is no God of mine.
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So, how do you feel about the God of Abraham?
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So, how do you feel about the God of Abraham?
It is not so much as who your God is, it's that you don't believe in Him correctly. So, I'll have to kill you.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Any God who demands the sacrifice of innocents in his name is no God of mine.
Theres only one God.
Allah, Jehova, King of Kings, the I Am, King of the Jews, etc.
What folks do in his name is not his fault.
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Originally posted by Toad
So, how do you feel about the God of Abraham?
Trick question :p
He is also the God of Ishmael. = Allah
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Theres a "so called" catholic saying God can kiss his bellybutton too!
Wrong I said "Allah". Since I don't care to speak Arabic, you should get my point. I differentiate God from Allah. Simple spelling should explain it.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wrong I said "Allah". Since I don't care to speak Arabic, you should get my point. I differentiate God from Allah. Simple spelling should explain it.
Karaya
Dont matter how you spell it Kara, hes the same God.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Dont matter how you spell it Kara, hes the same God.
You know this could into a LONG thread. I don't pray to Allah. Furthermore, I've never said the word Allah. I have no reason too. I've typed it and written it, but have never said it, nor will I ever.
Out.
Karaya
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Allah is a god....
but GOD is the one and only god, thee highest of the highest, the most mightiest of mighty, oh, and his sister is Zeus..
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Originally posted by anonymous
dealt with many muslims. when it came up in conversation they consider 'Allah' and Christian 'God' to be one and the same. i think they differ at jesus and mohammed.
Actually, yes I have, and am on book #3 on better understanding their culture. The reason I am now reading so much about the subject is due to my own lack of knowledge, the amount of ignorance I see on the media, ignorance among average everyday Americans, and this O'Club.
Every person of the Islamic Faith I have ever spoken with about this subject says pretty much the same thing, (generalised) that Christians are ok, as they believe in "ONE" God, and that is a start, there is often some comparisons, between the two different religions, and that they believe Jesus existed, but was a prophet (a lot like the Jewish Faith) and did not rise from the dead. Where they differ is the whole issue of Mohammed, some Chistian scholars acknowledge his existence, as a prophet of sorts, and Islam sees him as the Savior.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Any God who demands the sacrifice of innocents in his name is no God of mine.
Maybe I'm too sheltered, but I thought this sort of ignorance was long in our past. Obviously I need to get out more.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You know this could into a LONG thread. I don't pray to Allah. Furthermore, I've never said the word Allah. I have no reason too. I've typed it and written it, but have never said it, nor will I ever.
Out.
Karaya
No matter. But my saying you were a "so called" catholic was
outta line
sorry.
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How do you guys know God is a "he"?
Maybe God is a "she".
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
How do you guys know God is a "he"?
Maybe God is a "she".
So if you believe the christian belief, then when God impregnated Mary, then.... So does that make God is a lesbian?
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OK, now y'all're startin to make my head hurt.:(
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Originally posted by Furball
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
They can take their Code of Hammurabi and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Hammurabi's law was quite similar than laws are now all over the world and it was made 4000 years ago. It was also giving women almost as good rights as men had (IIRC also in case of divorce) so it's still more modern than law is in some third world countries.
I'm not sure if you were trolling or serious; if first then may I suggest you read those laws; they're very interesting reading and can be found from net (Don't worry about copyright laws; they expired thousands years ago... :D
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
How do you guys know God is a "he"?
Maybe God is a "she".
Actually the Bible says the is no "gender" in heaven.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Actually the Bible says the is no "gender" in heaven.
Well that blows, doesn't it. Anyone read "The Mysterious Stranger" by Mark Twain? The last story he wrote, believe he died in the middle of it.
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Christians = Jesus(Gods son)
ISLAM = Muhammed(Gods Messenger)
ALLAH, GOD are the same for Christians, Muslems and Jews.
and none exist :aok
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Originally posted by phookat
Well that blows, doesn't it. Anyone read "The Mysterious Stranger" by Mark Twain? The last story he wrote, believe he died in the middle of it.
How does it end? ;)
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Some stats about the Arab nations. The ones usually referred to as such, but sorry, I don't have the complete list.
Muslims count more, but the USA does not have trouble with much of those.
They are 11
They count about as many ppl as the USA
Their eco system is roughly as big as Spain's
Their literacy level and book publishing/translation level is very very low. Mostly due to under-education of women.
This is all so silly. There are peaceful muslim nations, where standards are higher.
If those people had a different setup, they might be allies.
But, so it is, what we learn from history is just that we don't learn from it.
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To the muslim any one that does not believe in allah is an infidel worthy only of death,man woman and child.
the God of abraham never required human sac.
But slo you are less safe then us because if you do not believe in God you are worse than an infidel,and will be tortured in hideous ways until you say you believe in God then they cut your head off.Me they just cut my head off after my mini 14s barrel melts
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Originally posted by Furball
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Theres only one God.
Allah, Jehova, King of Kings, the I Am, King of the Jews, etc.
What folks do in his name is not his fault.
umm no
take the allah out and you are sort of right for Christians.
the the entire new testament, not 1 mention of going to "heaven" with 72 virgins, or by dying killing "infidels" you go right to "heaven"
allah is not a diety in any sence for me, and most other christians,.
he she it is just a made up false idol, who dissillusioned people pray to.
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WOW my first "double post" sry
bowing out, opening a beer, and will have more. it is not good to attempt to talk religion while impared. bad idea.
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Originally posted by JB73
umm no
take the allah out and you are sort of right for Christians.
the the entire new testament, not 1 mention of going to "heaven" with 72 virgins, or by dying killing "infidels" you go right to "heaven"
allah is not a diety in any sence for me, and most other christians,.
he she it is just a made up false idol, who dissillusioned people pray to.
LOL allah is muslum for "God" :lol
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x lee...duh really....................... lol
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Originally posted by JB73
umm no
umm yes. You have two options here:
1) Allah = God = The Father in Heaven. In this case the point is moot. You do not blame the sun for the thieves who work by its light. Nor do you blame God for the Crusades or 911.
2) Allah doesn't exist but God does, which is about an inane an idea as a Muslim believing Allah exists but the "Christian" God does not. Fine, but "what folks do in his name is not his fault" still applies, whether the "his" refers to somethign real or not.
Originally posted by JB73
the the entire new testament, not 1 mention of going to "heaven" with 72 virgins, or by dying killing "infidels" you go right to "heaven"
The New Testament was not written by God. And the Koran wasn't written by Allah. They were written by real people living on Planet Earth. The faults of either document can't be blamed on God or Allah.
Originally posted by JB73
allah is not a diety in any sence for me, and most other christians,.
he she it is just a made up false idol, who dissillusioned people pray to.
Funny, that's about exactly what those fundamentalist barbarians think about you. Fortunately there are a large number of Muslims who do not think this way.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
LOL allah is muslum for "God" :lol
LOL yeah part of some new-fangled Anti-Christ called a "foreign language". A toool o' the Devil I tells ya. :D
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Theres only one God.
Allah, Jehova, King of Kings, the I Am, King of the Jews, etc.
What folks do in his name is not his fault.
allah is really a sumarian moon god aliyah which mohammad took to worshipping in his delusional state. Look it up.
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Allah was worshipped by Bedouin in and around Mecca before Muhammad's day, along with 360 other, lesser deities. Originally he was a moon god who had three daughters who were also gods. There is some evidence to suggest his followers may have practiced human sacrifice.
Muhammad created Islam as a religion designed from the outset to unite the feuding Arab tribes into a single political force. The name "Allah" was retained for his deity to placate many of the religious leaders in Mecca who had made money from the sale of idols and pilgrimages to the Ka'aba, which had been called the Rock of Allah long before Muhammad's day.
Allah retained some of his earlier attributes, but others were discarded. The deity that emerged, describe as merciful and compassionate, apparently retained a delight in blood. Jihad was the central theme of early Islamic faith. A religious militancy developed during Muhammad's life and played a prominent part in the faith for a thousand years.
Modern Muslims relate with great fervency the horrors of the Crusades, which lasted for 200 years. Since the Reformation the Christian World, with it's militant fires rapidly diminishing, has apologized for the the Crusades. However, one never hears Muslims apologizing for a thousand years of warfare or the subjugations of Spain, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia, Armenia, much of southern Russia, and northern and western Africa.
Central to these wars of jihad was a hatred of pagans and a thinly veiled hostility for Christians and Jews. A westerner who takes the time to read the Koran is often shocked to find so much of its text deprecating and belittling the Jews. While Jews of the Diaspora fared better under Muslim rule than they did in Europe during the Middle Ages, they were, nonetheless, second-class citizens whose rights were severely restricted and who could not hold important government or military posts.
This bigotry was fanned into new flame after World War II, when Jewish refugees began to arrive in the Palestinian Mandate. They were preceded by ex-Nazi's fleeing the retribution of the Allied Powers. These thugs were given aid and comfort by militant Arab leaders such as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who was instrumental in forming the policies of later leaders such as Muammar Khadafy, Saddam Hussein, and Gamal Nasser. Before their arrival, Jewish immigrants had been living in Palestine peacefully with native Muslims. When the British tried to promote the implementation of the Balfour Declaration, which would have created two new states out of the Mandate, surrounding Arab states, agitated by the Grand Mufti and other militants, threatened military action against any Jewish nation that emerged.
In 1948 the surrounding Muslim countries declared war against the newly created state of Israel. Of course, if one reads their histories of those events, one would get the impression that a nation of a few thousand people with only a handful of weapons, declared war on neighboring countries with populations numbering in the tens of millions.
That has been the pattern of Islamic aggression for a thousand years. Many Muslims are peace-loving of course. Nonetheless, they often turn a blind eye to the activities of their religious militants who they believe are carrying out one of the central tenets of their faith...the conversion of the world to the true faith, preferably by persuasion, but by force if necessary.
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Shuckins re : your post
good lesson,almost all right but then again you know how the left is on history.I didnt have the will to write all that nor could I have done nearly so well.
Phookat re:new testament written by? muslims who do not think this way.
Oh boy this is going to get me mocked but what the hell.
The new testament was written by certain chosen men ,whose hand was directed by the Holy Spirit. That is why the bible has not changed in meaning from day one. The dead sea scrolls read the same as todays bible with a little difference because of langage.
There are very few muslims that do not believe all other gods are not idols.Allah is only God to them and the judeo/christian God is not allah.
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demaw,
Thank you. I've read large portions of an English translation of the Koran. It isn't nearly as prosaic as the King James version of the Bible. Much of the suras in it consist of simple retellings of tales from the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. Muhammad attempted to paint the Jews as the children of Abraham who failed in their duty to Allah, and the Arabs are portrayed as the faithful children. Therefore, Muslims are the true inheritors of the "Covenant" made between Jehovah and the descendants of Abraham.
I started writing the first post to point out that the origins of Jehovah and Allah are different and that they are two entirely different deities. Just got a little carried away I guess.
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Shuckins re: crusades
I think I might be able to find some help from you on crusades.
From some of my studies I believe the crusades came about because the arabs of the time were at the gates of Constantinople[former name of Istanbul] .At the time Constantinople was considered the gateway to trade etc? If the arabs took Constantinople with military force would it not have been a disaster for the known world? Constantinople was greek at the time?
This does not excuse what they did to the jews but the world needs to know it was done in the name of Jesus it was not ..of Jesus. They could have done it in the name of demaw wouldnt have been any different..This would take to much time to answer so dont worry about it lol.Ill find what I am looking for.
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The Hebew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic word "Alaha", or "Elahh"; the same as the Arabic word "Allah" on pronunciation.
The Christian God, the Hebrew God, and the Islamic God are one and the same, and He demanded that Abraham sacrifice his only son as a test of faith.
As Ishmael was born to Abrahams handmaiden Hagar before the Issac was born to Sarah, Muslims believe that Abraham's "only son" is Ishmael as when Issac was born Abraham no longer had an "only son".
The Hebrew belief is that Issac was born to Abraham's wife Sarah and because he was Abraham's only legitimate son, Issac was the intended sacrifice.
This is the branching of the same tree to two different theologies. The Hebrew branch again split into two distinct theologies with the birth of Christ.
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Shuckins--
Thanks for the informative post. I stand corrected.
However, I would say that the modern interpretation of the word "Allah" is "The Universal Lord God."
Demaw-- I would never mock your beliefs. But you should extend the same courtesy to Muslims.
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demaw,
The Emperor of Constantinople (Byzantium), after his forces lost the battle of Manzikert and other battles to the Muslims, called on the Christian west to send military aid to stem the Islamic tide.
Pope Urban II made some speeches in France, if memory serves, that were the start of the crusades. A monk named Peter the Hermit further inflamed the populations of western Christians. In the event, a number of large groups set out for the Holy Land the following year (1097 a.d.). The first was the People's Crusade, led by Peter the Hermit, I believe. Composed of illiterate peasants, it failed utterly. The second group, composed mainly of French knights and noblemen, and led by Bohemund and Count Baldwin, crossed into Asia Minor, won several battles, and succeeded in capturing Jerusalem after a bloody and murderous siege. Muslims and Jews were slaughtered mercilessly when the walls were breached.
Thereupon most of the knights of the First Crusade returned to Europe. A small number remained to establish a number of small kingdoms on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was known to the French as Outremer, the Kingdom across the Sea. The knights of these kingdoms quickly became acclimated to their new surroundings, and as the decades passed, adopted the dress and mannerisms of their Muslim neighbors. They lived in relative peace with them until a rogue Frankish nobleman took military forces into the Levant (the Muslim homeland, i.e. the birthplace of Islam) which no infidel was permitted to enter. Thereupon Saladin the Great of Egypt vowed to drive them from Palestine...and that is exactly what he did.
Christian hatred of the Jews during this Medieval Period traced its beginnings to the Jewish uprising against Roman rule in 72 a.d. The Roman forces put down this revolt bloodily, and some years later, after a second revolt, began the process of scattering the Jews across the empire to prevent similar events from occurring in the future. The Romans had an especial hatred for the Jews because they refused to show respect for the Roman gods or tolerate the placement of images of the Emperor in Israel. Because of this bloody suppression of the Jews, a small Jewish sect adopted policies that attempted to distance their association with the main body of Judaism. They adopted the hostile attitudes of the Romans toward the Jews and rapidly discarded Jewish rituals.
This sect was, of course, Christianity. That distancing from Judaism and hostility towards it migrated across Europe and survived, largely intact, until the time of the Protestant Reformation. Since that time, the hatred of the Jews as the money-lenders or "userer" of Europe and the "murderers" of Christ has ebbed, slowly but surely. Many Protestants and Catholics are now re-embracing their Jewish roots and publicly recognizing the relationship between the two faiths.
Islam has gone through no such transformation.
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phookat re: mock
I hope I dont mock anyones belief,but I do judge them and totally reject them.I hope I would have the character to also have done the same if I lived at the time of the crusades,not reject their God but their deeds to the jews.
I cannot accept a religion that teaches babies to kill babies.To me that is the same as human sac.Do I say wipe them from the face of the earth,no I would then be like them.I do say kill as many as it takes to stop them for awhile,as thru out history this is all that has stopped them.
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phookat,
I ran across a site on google earlier today that discusses the history of the name Allah. I believe I was looking for a "History of Allah" in order to refresh my memory about the reference to him being a moon god. Christian and Jewish theologians reject the Muslim claim that the word Allah is in any way related to the names of God in the Old Testament. It didn't take me long to find the information if you care to look for it yourself...just can't remember the name of the site.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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Shuckins re: crusades
Thank you so much I know it took a lot of effort.Do you know of a book/s that I can read to educate myself on this subject?
thanks.
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Demaw-- The vast majority of Muslims agrees with you.
Shuckins-- Isn't it fair to say, though, that despite the origins of the word, the current meaning of Allah is not Moon God or whatever, but rather The Universal Supreme Being? That is how Muslims use the word today, no?
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I think the earliest translations meant "the god." The actual meaning has undoubtedly morphed over the centuries to make it more palatable to those opposed, on principles of faith, to Islam.
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demaw,
I recommend the following works for information on the Crusades:
The Crusades; an excellent two volume work by author Regine Pernoud.
Genghis Khan and The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints and The Crusades: The Flame of Islam . All three are works by Harold Lamb. Of especial interest is the work on Genghis Khan, which details the destruction of the Kharesmian Turks, the most powerful force in Islam, by the Mongols, circa 1200 a.d.
Lastly, Thomas B. Costain's The Conquering Family , an early history of the British Royal Family beginning with William the Conqueror and ending with the reign of King John II. It gives a fairly good account of Richard the Lionheart's role in the Third Crusade.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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Originally posted by demaw1
To the muslim any one that does not believe in allah is an infidel worthy only of death,man woman and child.
What bloodthirsty intolerance...... :rolleyes:
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shuckins,thanks for your time ,lol I feel like I died and went to heaven.I ll find these book thanks again
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Happy to help out. :)
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Please tell me that you are saying this because you do not believe in God, and not because you think the Islamic faith is bogus...
Perhaps I should restate. I do not believe in a higher power, muslim extremists are mentally ill.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Actually, yes I have, and am on book #3 on better understanding their culture. The reason I am now reading so much about the subject is due ) and did not rise from the dead. Where they differ is the whole issue of Mohammed, some Chistian scholars acknowledge his existence, as a prophet of sorts, and Islam sees him as the Savior.
A vey enlightning thread, I like the ones that make you think and look up references.
While I believe you are right about the origins of "Allah" I also think that today the nuslums will tell you that Allah is the one God
the same one in the bible.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
A vey enlightning thread, I like the ones that make you think and look up references.
While I believe you are right about the origins of "Allah" I also think that today the nuslums will tell you that Allah is the one God
the same one in the bible.
You mean the same muslims that say that you go to a celestial brothel for killing your fellow man?
Let's think things through here.
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Originally posted by storch
You mean the same muslims that say that you go to a celestial brothel for killing your fellow man?
Let's think things through here.
Do you differentiate muslums from muslum radicals?
Or are all muslums the same to you?
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Do you differentiate muslums from muslum radicals?
Or are all muslums the same to you?
Which ever ones adhere to the five pillars of the faith.
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Originally posted by demaw1
To the muslim any one that does not believe in allah is an infidel worthy only of death,man woman and child.
An amazingly sweeping generalization. Do you really believe that every Muslim in the world is out to get you?
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Originally posted by Pei
An amazingly sweeping generalization. Do you really believe that every Muslim in the world is out to get you?
The muslims that are culturally muslim as some of my neighbors are, do not represent any more of a threat than a catholic does. The ones that adhere to the tenets of that are a problem.
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Originally posted by storch
The muslims that are culturally muslim as some of my neighbors are, do not represent any more of a threat than a catholic does. The ones that adhere to the tenets of that are a problem.
My experience has been different; I have met Muslims who were both devout and moderate. My view is that many people interpret their faith in way that's suites their prejudices - I see the the prejudices as the major problem, not the faith itself.
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Anno Domini ? I know him.... I played in a band with this cat...He was soooooo kewl, could make the guitar sing. Then he got hung up on this time thing, wasn't the same since.....
:D
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Originally posted by Pei
My experience has been different; I have met Muslims who were both devout and moderate. My view is that many people interpret their faith in way that's suites their prejudices - I see the the prejudices as the major problem, not the faith itself.
what are the five pillars and how could they possibly be misinterpreted? It seems very clear to me what mohammad intended and indeed practiced.
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Yeah, people who follow the five pillars must be evil. :rolleyes:
-Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
-Establishment of the daily prayers;
-Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
-Self-purification through fasting; and
-The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
The carrying for needy one is really telling. :aok
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Guess Storch has his own translation of the Koran, printed in same press with those (in)famous ballots so some small misconceptions are possible when reading it :)
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Since that time, the hatred of the Jews as the money-lenders or "userer" of Europe and the "murderers" of Christ has ebbed, slowly but surely. Many Protestants and Catholics are now re-embracing their Jewish roots and publicly recognizing the relationship between the two faiths.
Islam has gone through no such transformation.
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Why?
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Originally posted by phookat
Maybe I'm too sheltered, but I thought this sort of ignorance was long in our past. Obviously I need to get out more.
Only if your mommy will let you.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Yeah, people who follow the five pillars must be evil. :rolleyes:
-Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
-Establishment of the daily prayers;
-Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
-Self-purification through fasting; and
-The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
The carrying for needy one is really telling. :aok
Yup and pillar #1 renders the rest moot. Shall I explain why?
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Pei re: generalization and every muslim out to get me.
It is far from a sweeping generalization, but I do admit that with out explaination it could seem that way,to some it would always seem that way.
There is a bottom line to everything,to the muslim who believes in and follows his faith that bottom line is everyone who is not a muslim is an infidel.What do you do with infidels...kill them...Muslim mission in life? Covert all to the faith...those you cant ,kill.With the ebb and tide of history the time they had the power to try this they did as they are trying now.Do I mean all muslims are alike of course not.But there beliefs do not waver,where was the condimnation of 9/11 in America from those that live and worship here.If any it was from individual not the institution.It hasnt been denounced in full.Everything taught to their kids in the m.e. is taught here.If those you think are peacefull here and they are,where there they wouldnt lift a finger for you,they follow the teachings.I could go much futher but wont,
No i dont think every muslim is out to get me thats silly, but every muslim would if they could.And I am not afriad of them at all, I fear what they can do is all.
muslim that are just culturally muslim are not considered to be muslem
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Yeager re: why?
Because of roots as you said and because of the written word that could be studied.Before the bible people where told how and what to think from preist who supposely translated for the people. Guess what agendas could be put foreward that way.
Now we have come to the point of understanding who killed Jesus and why putting the lie slowly to rest.
The origins of allah was that he was a moon god,[ see post above by shuckins] mohammond created islam for the purpose of bring waring tribes of arabs together.
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demaw
Where are you from? Have you ever even known or met any muslims?
A muslim that strictly follows the Koran isn't a whole lot different from someone that strictly follows the testaments.
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Originally posted by stiehl
demaw
Where are you from? Have you ever even known or met any muslims?
A muslim that strictly follows the Koran isn't a whole lot different from someone that strictly follows the testaments.
You have no comprehension of either text.
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Stiehl re: met a muslim, where are you from, different from
I am from california [it is on the side under name,that is how I know you are from new york]
Being from california and living among the diversty of california I have met a few muslims and have talked to a couple. Do I live among them,no...but I dont live among new yorkers either.
A muslim that strictly follows the koran is not much different from a christian that follows the gospels.
With respect, they are as different as night and day.The values are not the same,their god is not the same,the teachings are not the same,and much much more.
examples; Why have the arabs tried so hard to destory the jews since they became a country[I know its been going on for thousands year but talking about now]
Do they want all the oil Isreal has? gold /silver mines? huge natural harbors? long mountian ranges full of game? No they want to because the religion tells them to and they have been taught this from little children.
Where has a christian/jew straped bombs on babies to kill babies. The arabs say we will have final victory because we worship death,but you love life...totally oppisite belief.
Allah is a moon god..the judao/christian God it is written made the moon.
the koran stresses death....the gospels stress love [yes a little simplistic but true] If you walk the street of an city in Isreal some one will likely say shalom....walk the street of an American city someone likely to say hi...Walk the street in the muslim world and we would likely see you on tv the next day dead.
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you think without religion they would not hate us still??
religion is just the excuse not the cause ...
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Without religions there wouldn't be any problems in middle-east.
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Sure there would... I'm with Eagler. The hate would just be secular.
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Differences in religion are exploited but religion is deep within both cultures whether we are aware of it or not. There is a draw to the exotic and mysterious but there is also fear of the unknown and that fear can be exploited. And exploited in both the western and Islamic worlds.
I believe that the great majority of Arabs couldn't give a rats ash about the Palestinian situation if they were not bombarded with propaganda telling them it is vitally important to someone living in Yemen.
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Eagler re: hate us
You might have thought the question was easy,for me it was something I really had to think about, thanks.
Gees I still dont know, ok ya maybe but I think it is far deeper than that. I think that without their religion they might not hate the jews.
The reason I am of 2 minds is look at france and germany,they semi hate us,so ok yes they might find something to hate us for,but not with the viciousness they do now.
Yes I do believe religion is the cause and only cause for them.Every thing they do is for or from their religion, gees they dont have room for anything else.No not excuse but cause.
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""I think that without their religion they might not hate the jews""
- They don't hate the "jews" but some of them hates the Israel because its politics; thinking that the religion is the reason for the problems in there is just avoiding the main cause.
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Originally posted by Staga
""I think that without their religion they might not hate the jews""
- They don't hate the "jews" but some of them hates the Israel because its politics; thinking that the religion is the reason for the problems in there is just avoiding the main cause.
Judaism (1300 B.C.) and Islam (622 A.D.) do not mix, or does any other one of the "million different Jyhads".
The unique usage of Allah as a personal name of God is a reflection of Islam's emphasis on the purity of the belief in God which is the essence of the message of all God's messengers. Because of this, Islam considers associating any deity or personality with God as a deadly sin which God will never forgive, despite the fact He may forgive all other sins. If I call my "God", "God" instead of "Allah", I just sinned.
Btw, I live near Dearborn, Mi. I have some friends who are Arabic, heck, my barber is Lebonese. The use of "Allah" is almost blasphemous at times. Just like the word "Jyhad".
"It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.
The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism.
This is chapter 112 which reads:
"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."
Talking about the pot calling the kettle black.
Karaya
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Staga [with respect] they do hate the jews and have for thousands of years.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Staga [with respect] they do hate the jews and have for thousands of years.
Judaism is hated by Islam. Agreed demaw.
Karaya
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Most religions believe in a 'supreme being' of somekind. Allah is what they call Him, God is what I call him. As far as Jesus goes He is my savior. I believe anyone who does not accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior will perish.
I have nothing but pity for atheists, muslims, etc... as they are lost. I don't hate them, just feel sorry for them that they don't have a personal relationship with Christ.
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I kinda get a kick out of those who say Jesus was; a prophet, a teacher, or a wise man, (etc.) and that is all. I see this from many agnostics, from SOME Jews (many deny his very existence) and from most Muslims I talk to.
But Jesus claimed to be the ACTUAL son-of-god, immaculately conceived, sent to atone for the sins of the world, the savior and redeemer, the only doorway/path to heaven and salvation from hell, to have existed before the creation of the world, and to actually be God himself (as part of the trinity).
It seems simple to me; either he was right or he was wrong, and if wrong then obviously insane or at best a liar. If he was wrong he was not one of those things in my first paragraph, if he was right then he was also not one of those things in the first paragraph. There seems no middle ground here to me.
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
It seems simple to me; either he was right or he was wrong, and if wrong then obviously insane or at best a liar. If he was wrong he was not one of those things in my first paragraph, if he was right then he was also not one of those things in the first paragraph. There seems no middle ground here to me.
Simple? Why not say he isn't either one? It would have saved the Dog and Pony show. :aok
Karaya
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edburt mol...bet u know what a kings house number is.
masherbrum....read last paragraph again I read it several times seems to make sense kinda.
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dipstick......just a reply
I would prefur your pity then their trying to cut my head off,or harming my country etc.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Staga [with respect] they do hate the jews and have for thousands of years.
Jews and Muslims lived quite peacefully together for over a thousand years - much more so than Christians and Jews did in Europe for example. The raw hatred that exists now began during the last century and is centred around the formation of the state of Isreal and is a comparitvely recent thing.
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Pei.....reply
the muslims and jews as have most others live in some peace for a short time here and there,mostly when they couldnt do much about it either way.
Pei it is not recent ya just cant deny written history and be honest about it..[not saying your dishonest] it goes back thousands of years even before mohammond invented islam to bring together waring arab tribes.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Pei.....reply
the muslims and jews as have most others live in some peace for a short time here and there,mostly when they couldnt do much about it either way.
Pei it is not recent ya just cant deny written history and be honest about it..[not saying your dishonest] it goes back thousands of years even before mohammond invented islam to bring together waring arab tribes.
Sorry but you are wrong.
Baghdad was the main centre of Jewish learning for millenia until the last century for example. Vritually all the main Islamic cities had large Jewish quarters. Jews served as financiers, dcotors and sometimes administrators in many Islamic courts. There are comparitivley few instances of direct physical conflict between Muslims and Jews until the last century. A quick glance thorugh any reputable history of the middle east will show you this. It suits extremists on both sides to paint the conflict as ongoing and violent since ancient times. The conflict exists in it's current bitter state because of a clash between Arab and Jewish nationalism, both of which have thier roots in the 19th centruy but didn't really become important until the 20th. If your "written history" is telling you otherwise then I suggest you extend your reading matter.
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allah may be greatest but whats really important is can he hit a curve ball?
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Originally posted by anonymous
allah may be greatest but whats really important is can he hit a curve ball?
I don't know if He can hit one, but He certainly throws a few..