Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rpm on July 25, 2004, 10:07:39 PM
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Hitech, Skuzzy, Pyro, et al.
Why is it 95% of the time there are more Rooks than any other country? I logged on tonight to 260 Rooks vs 170 Knights and 140 Bishops. The game used to be sort of balanced but since the switch it has become obviously lopsided.
I know both Bishops and Knights have won a couple resets, but there needs to be some balancing done by HTC. It is getting very old, very fast.
I don't normally post whines, but this one has some validity. Flame away.
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Usually one likes to be outnumbered....more planes to kill.
Besides...they are rooks right? ... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Mak333
Usually one likes to be outnumbered....more planes to kill.
Besides...they are rooks right? ... :rolleyes:
yup so you cant kill them because they are at 30k
while its "only" sunday nights, its REALLY getting annoying having one of "my best nights" ruined by the totaly stupid 10v1 type thing rooks seem to like.
so now, i, and most of my squad play WWIIOL on a sunday night........i wonder why
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imagine a chicken with sunglasses keeping a bag in his hand flying at 30k looking around.
Thats what i call a chicken rookie tourist.
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I knew someone would start a, "Rooks have numbers on Sunday's", whine thread again this week! Someone owes me some money, I forget who it was!?!? The simple reason Rooks have numbers on Sundays is, it's almost all of our big squadron's individual squadnights. This was done deliberately back during the lenghthy period when Bishops and Knights both outnumbered Rooks 24/7 and fell all over each other seeing how fast they could reset Rooks, over and over and over and over. This was also when the CO's of virtually all of our squadrons developed the RJO concept we still use today.
Instead of whining about it, why not do the same things yourselves? Get your bigger squadrons to have their squadnights on the same night (Fri/Sat?), organize joint operations as we do. Be proactive, not reactive. The worst possible thing you can do is what someone mentioned in this thread and not play at all Sunday nights, all you are doing is compounding the problem for your team, basically going AWOL, leaving your team hanging out to dry. When the going gets tough, don't run and hide, roll up your sleeves and get busy, if you all did this Sunday's may not even be a total blowout for Rooks at all...Think about it... :rolleyes:
Zazen
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yup so you cant kill them because they are at 30k
lol I used to think that only Rooks were the ones up above 20k but now I am seeing just about all sides up there evenly. I dont care much about the numbers difference. Being on the side with the least players allows for more fights. I dont spend all that much time on line anymore so when I log in I like to get some quick fights in without wasting much time. Although the numbers difference between Rooks and the other two sides have been lopsided for a while now it is has gotten much worse since the move to AH2.
I was talking to a few COs several days before the switch and they were hinting toward a move to the Rooks. (Regulators for one) I couldnt help but think that a trend was in the mix for more than just a few squads going to the Rooks. (And I was right)
Sooner or later CO's and their squads will realize that they need to do their part in "balancing" the arena and things will slowly change. But this numbers is nothing new and not many have done much in the past so I doubt that they will start anytime soon.
But as I said before, I would rather see things the way they are now. But thats just me. I know others who play more than I do now get agrivated with the numbers difference so there their complaints are valid like it or not.
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Besides...they are rooks right? ...
yup so you cant kill them because they are at 30k
I am mostly a CT flier so all the MA coutries look the same to me, but my MA squad the Hells Angles happens to fly Rooks. I can only speak for myself, but I know it is a rare thing when I find myself more than 10K, and usually I am around 5k and I really dont see many friendlies or enemies at outrageous altitudes very often.
Saturday night the Knights and Rooks had a 3-4 hour long brawl between A43-A44. Neither side was very much above ground level and it was some of the best fights I have had, Drex, Leviathan and the Knights at 43.
I always laugh when I hear complaints of alt monkeys, since a 30k enemy is no threat to me whatsoever if I'm at 5k. I just keep an eye on it and move on to the next victim.
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I looked into the numbers...and I have some facts.
Bish Kills: 134406
Bish Deaths: 114582
Knight Kills: 123441
Knight Deaths: 119102
Rook Kills: 120660
Rook Deaths: 144826
As you can see....numbers are not 10v1. In fact, rooks are the only country that die more than they kill. Stop whining, it's unjustified. If you wanna gang up on someone it should be the bish, which clearly dominate in kills and deaths.
(Edit) The numbers are as of 12:40 am EST.
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
I looked into the numbers...and I have some facts.
Bishop Kills: 134406
Bishop Deaths: 114582
Knight Kills: 123441
Knight Deaths: 119102
Rook Kills: 120660
Rook Deaths: 144826
As you can see....numbers are not 10v1. In fact, rooks are the only country that die more than they kill. Stop whining, it's unjustified. If you wanna gang up on someone it should be the bish, which clearly dominate in kills and deaths.
(Edit) The numbers are as of 12:40 am EST.
You need to check those numbers again my friend, you have them totally backwards. Read what you are posting from. :rolleyes:You have deaths and kills juxtaposed for each team.
The CORRECT statistics for each country are:
Bish Kills: 114,582
Bish Deaths: 134,406
Knights Kills: 119,102
Knight Deaths: 123,441
Rook Kills: 144,826
Rook Deaths: 120,600
Nice try though!Try reading more carefully next time!:rolleyes:
For those that don't know, you find these particular stats from the main HTC homepage under scores/kill stats/select country vs. country/select Bishop vs. All/then Knight vs. All/then Rook vs. All for the current camp.
You can even refine it to Knight vs. Bishops or Rooks or whatever, to see how each country fairs against the others.
Zazen:aok
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Well the numbers game happens. I log on and see the Rooks outnumbered and don't see any of them whine about it. A few hours later more long on and we have numbers. Then a bunch log off and we now don't. Numbers for each country fluxuate all the time. I love Zanzen's answer, due to it being so true. I used to fly Knits and at the time, we normally had the numbers. I moved to Rooks which normally at that time didn't. Things have changed, and will probably change again sometime in the future. When 1 side has numbers the majority of the fliers on the other countries attack the country with numbers, (i said most, not all) so in end it is still basically even. (ofcourse I'm sure some will disagree) Like Zazen said. Get your squads to do there squad nights together so your country can dominate on a certain night. I know this reply won't help your pain, but it's just the way it is.
(https://home.comcast.net/~samaras/wsb/media/287205/site1004.jpg)
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
I looked into the numbers...and I have some facts.
Bish Kills: 134406
Bish Deaths: 114582
Knight Kills: 123441
Knight Deaths: 119102
Rook Kills: 120660
Rook Deaths: 144826
As you can see....numbers are not 10v1. In fact, rooks are the only country that die more than they kill. Stop whining, it's unjustified. If you wanna gang up on someone it should be the bish, which clearly dominate in kills and deaths.
(Edit) The numbers are as of 12:40 am EST.
LOLOLOLOLOL....
Reading comprehension 101, adult education courses at any community college.... You have the kills and deaths backwards..
Oh, by the way, the Bish ALWAYS have the worst kill to death ratio... it's tradition at this point.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
LOLOLOLOLOL....
Reading comprehension 101, adult education courses at any community college.... You have the kills and deaths backwards..
Oh, by the way, the Bish ALWAYS have the worst kill to death ratio... it's tradition at this point.
My regards,
Widewing
Lol Widewing you are quite correct. I posted a LONG thread on this subject earlier this year. Bishops have never had a positive country K/D ratio since the game started, even when they had a HUGE numerical advantage. Bishops have a very consistant 0.85 to 1 K/D ratio camp to camp. Knights average 0.95 to an even 1 to 1 K/D ratio camp to camp. Rooks have always had a positive K/D ratio even when vastly outnumbered back in the dark ages of Rookland 2 years ago, Rooks K/D ratio averages 1.2 to 1 camp to camp.
So, in fact Rooks are and always have been the only country with a positive K/D ratio, regardless of the relative numerical disparity between the three countries...I'll find my old thread and bump it for those interested in a detailed examination of this statistical phenomena. Here is the link here...http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107685&highlight=country+stats
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Instead of whining about it, why not do the same things yourselves?
LOL...well, I think tonight we did. Knits and Bish held an RJO Truce tonight that seemed to work pretty well. It was not perfect, but in the end it seemed to turn the RJO tide. Bish were down to 13 fields and were headed to a quick reset. Instead, they were able to hold and gain some back. to the Knit/Bish squad COs that coordinated.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
lol I used to think that only Rooks were the ones up above 20k but now I am seeing just about all sides up there evenly. I dont care much about the numbers difference. Being on the side with the least players allows for more fights. I dont spend all that much time on line anymore so when I log in I like to get some quick fights in without wasting much time. Although the numbers difference between Rooks and the other two sides have been lopsided for a while now it is has gotten much worse since the move to AH2.
I forget what I called the thread, but as beta began I predicted Rook numbers would become disproportionately greater than Knights and especially Bishops for reasons of customer demographics. To make a long story short, demographically speaking, Rooks are older people with careers who are better able to afford the necessary hardware required to run AH2. Your average Bishop 16 year-old flipping burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage simply cannot afford a $499 256MB Radeon 9800 XT. Obviously, this demographic distribution is a gross generalization, but accurate overall. As Morpheus noted the numbers support my earlier speculation.
Also, realize each country has numbers at different times of the day. Knights have alot of US West coasters so tend to have superior numbers 10pm to 4am Central. Bishops have alot of European players so tend to have superior numbers 4am to 4pm Central. Rooks have alot of US East Coasters so tend to have numbers 4pm to 10pm. The reason Rooks 'appear' to be advantaged numerically is because their period of superior numbers occurs during prime-time for the most amount of players, therefore more people witness this time period than the other two time periods.
But, look at it from the vantage of statistical significance. A 25 player advantage during prime-time when there's 100 people on each team on average is less impactfull percentage wise than the same 25 player advantage Bishops tend to enjoy during the day when there's 50 people per team on average. Those same 25 people represent a 50% advantage during the day, but only a 25% advantage at night during US prime-time. The same 50% advantage applies to Knights after midnight central. It's much easier for Knights or Bish to counter 125 Rooks when they have 100 people online than it is for Rooks or Knights to counter 75 Bishops when they have only 50 online during the daytime, for example.
Most people are only aware of the numbers situation during their particular play-time window, the numbers are actually more even than they appear subjectively from your particular play-time window if you were to see it from a 24-hour play-cycle perspective.
Zazen
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Originally posted by rpm371
Hitech, Skuzzy, Pyro, et al.
there needs to be some balancing done by HTC. It is getting very old, very fast.
I don't normally post whines, but this one has some validity. Flame away.
I've been saying this for a long time now.
And just for the record I'd be just as unhappy no matter what country had the ungodly numbers including my own.
There has to be a better way to balance the sides to create more balanced game play. This Horde or be horded situation has gotten way out of hand and is really getting quite old, fast
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Zazen, just to clarify I wasn't singling out Sunday nights. We all know it's Rook squad night. This is becoming a 7 day a week thing. If I was just interested in being on the winning side I'd switch countries. I'd be interested in seeing the membership breakdown by country to see if it is really as bad as it seems.
Balance is what keeps the game interesting. Otherwise, it's just a daily ritual of being kicked in the nuts for $15 a month.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Zazen, just to clarify I wasn't singling out Sunday nights. We all know it's Rook squad night. This is becoming a 7 day a week thing. If I was just interested in being on the winning side I'd switch countries. I'd be interested in seeing the membership breakdown by country to see if it is really as bad as it seems.
Balance is what keeps the game interesting. Otherwise, it's just a daily ritual of being kicked in the nuts for $15 a month.
Read my post I was writing as you posted this, it offers an explanation for this.
Zazen
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(http://www.finegames.com/images/no_bs.gif)
Originally posted by Zazen13
To make a long story short, demographically speaking, Rooks are older people with careers who are better able to afford the necessary hardware required to run AH2. Your average Bishop 16 year-old flipping burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage simply cannot afford a $499 256MB Radeon 9800 XT. Obviously, this demographic distribution is a gross generalization, but accurate overall.
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Originally posted by Delirium
(http://www.finegames.com/images/no_bs.gif)
I have flown with Bishops, my ears are still ringing from the shrill, pre-pubescent squeels on VOX. As you fairly quoted I am grossly generalizing the demographics, but take it from someone with extensive first-hand knowledge, Bishops have a veritable monopoly on teenie-boppers. ;)
As far as Rooks are concerned, we conducted an informal poll, the average age of a Rook is 46! I am 33 and am one of the younger Rooks! :cool:
Zazen
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It's a good theory, but I can't agree with it. I think the demographics are probably the only thing that is balanced between countries right now. I think the number of 16 year old burger flippers is likely the same. The cost of an nVidia FX5200 is well under $100. It runs the game well and even the pimpliest pubescent can scam that much out of Mom and Dad in no time.
The daypart section has some merit, but you have to balance that out with the overseas Rooks. I'd have to see the actual numbers to know.
Again, this isn't a "flame the Rooks" thread, just a problem with the game I see that is not fixing it's self.
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Sometimes the Rooks do have a large advantage. Perhaps hitech has something in mind for this problem, perhaps having new members that sign up go to Bish or Knights and can't change sides for a month?
(http://mars.walagata.com/w/zaku/RTSigmaSigFinal.jpg)
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Originally posted by RTSigma
Sometimes the Rooks do have a large advantage. Perhaps hitech has something in mind for this problem, perhaps having new members that sign up go to Bish or Knights and can't change sides for a month?
(http://mars.walagata.com/w/zaku/RTSigmaSigFinal.jpg)
Sounds good to me! ;)
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For the past few months if the numbers are largely lopsided, I'll switch to the side w/ the least numbers. I'd rather not fight w/ 5 or 6 guys for one carcass(even though I like my chances of being the one to get the kill )
It's much simpler to find a fight against the hordes.
Rooks at 30k? No more than anyone else. I've flown some for all 3 sides the last few tours.. they're all the same.
I made it as high as 12k this month. It's a nice alt although a bit high... those 25k+ bananas usually won't bother w/ a pony that is so much lower. They're only gonna get one pass(at best) before I'm outta there and on my way to some fun, low, stuff.
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Steve! Sounds like you're happy again. Can I borrow some of those crying towels you had made? The small maps are killing me. The hording is much worse on those. I've played only 1 hour in the past 3 weeks. Don't think I can wait 3 years for TOD... :(
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Sure buddy, they're well broken in.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Instead of whining about it, why not do the same things yourselves? Get your bigger squadrons to have their squadnights on the same night (Fri/Sat?)
Zazen
the arguement isnt about the rooks organisation on Sunday nights, its about the 100+ players compaired to knits or bish.
Bish do BJO.........but we never have numbers, and in a way its good, because it would be utterly boring to have so many players
imo my problem with RJO is the small maps.....RJO can reset one (if they do really good) in under 2 hours. Big maps would spread them out more and take longer to end. After all on small maps you only need to take one base and your RIGHT on the other sides HQ........ :rofl :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Overlag
imo my problem with RJO is the small maps.....
Agreed. Which is why I'm surprised you don't like the pizza map. Not only does that spread out the numbers (a good thing IMO) but it provides some high alt fields which get the Lalas out of their comfort zone, and lets lesser used planes like the P47 hold centre stage for a while. Oh, and it stops guys like Mars01 from copping out of a fight between two bases by upping from a third base in a Lala. ;) Hiya Mars! :):cool:
Incidentally, even the pizza map has been known to be reset by a Sunday night RJO.
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Rooks are older people with careers who are better able to afford the necessary hardware required to run AH2. Your average Bishop 16 year-old flipping burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage simply cannot afford a $499 256MB Radeon 9800 XT. Obviously, this demographic distribution is a gross generalization, but accurate overall.
lol Zazen, I can't help but think that this has some truth behind it.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
LOL...well, I think tonight we did. Knits and Bish held an RJO Truce tonight that seemed to work pretty well. It was not perfect
not very perfect at all! seems some bish and i know its not just the bish tryed back dooring us knit's with two cordinated noe mission to 21 and 20 during the truce! luckily we caught them and destroyed em'
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As some have said Sunday just happens to be the night that many Rook squads have as their "squad night." There are a couple of reasons for this"
[list=1]
- Friday Nights many Rook squads (the big ones) participate in the Friday Squad Ops event over in the SEA.
- Saturday Nights are not big for many Rooks because wives / girlfriends want to go out and do things (usually on either Friday or Saturday).
I know in my squad and couple other squads I know this tends to be the case. Sunday nights are usually free and clear of wife / girlfriend ack because the next day is a work day. Which is why I think sunday nights have larger numbers overall that other nights.
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As for numbers and ebb and flow .. here is an excel sheet that tracks the campaigns going all the way back to the beginning .. deaths and kills and K/D for the countries per camp.
http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/countries.xls
Things changed back in April roughtly. The Knits numbers for some reason took a dive. If I remember right I think a bunch of Knit squads dissolved back then and I am not sure when MAG-33 multi-squad organization stopped.
Knits then recovered briefly Jan and February but then numbers started falling off again. Actually it looks like Bishop and Knits number both fell off more than the Rooks did with the conversion to AH2.
However, the Bishops either have very strong numbers still or are very prolific flyers (i.e. flying more hops per flyer than the other countries.).
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The truce worked fairly well at evening things out. Salute to Meddog and others who organized it. Fights were no longer Two to one maulings.
If worked well until a handful of knights logged on who refused to cooperate with their fellow knights in honoring the truce, and attacked the Bish (Salute to the Bish who cooperated in the truce) at 22. When asked to abide by the truce they launched into some "eff the truce" diatribes, flinging insults against Meddog and others who helped organize it.
Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot? Anybody else want 'em?
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot? Anybody else want 'em?
Unfortunately, even the twerps have paid their $14.95 - which is all that seems to matter in this game.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
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Knits then recovered briefly Jan and February but then numbers started falling off again. Actually it looks like Bishop and Knits number both fell off more than the Rooks did with the conversion to AH2.
Yup, exactly as I conjectured would transpire months ago during early beta for reasons of demographics. Rooks simply have the fewest financially precarious 'children' who cannot afford the hardware to make the transition to AH2. Believe this if you want to, if you do not...well that's your prerogative. ;)
Zazen
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The destruction of the SE Rook troop facilities at all the bases along the noodleual and beyond by the Bishops also helped you guys.
Very hard to mount a drive when you have to fly goons from 8 sectors away.
Nice strategic thinking.
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i have to laugh at the numbers posted, and the talk of an RJO last night (7-25-2004)
there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200
i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.
it seems to me that more bish and knits have not made the switch to AHII, where defined squads like mine, all helped each other out to get up in AH. we didn't lose a squadmate that i am aware of because of the switch.
also as mentioned 20 times in this thread, sunday night USA primetime is "squad night" for so many rook squads i cant count.
in closing waaaaaaa wwaaaaaaaa sunday night rooks have numbers but all other nights its pretty close in numbers, i just wont mention that. wont mention that friday nights rooks are almost always outnumbered too.
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Originally posted by JB73
i have to laugh at the numbers posted, and the talk of an RJO last night (7-25-2004)
there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200
i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.
it seems to me that more bish and knits have not made the switch to AHII, where defined squads like mine, all helped each other out to get up in AH. we didn't lose a squadmate that i am aware of because of the switch.
also as mentioned 20 times in this thread, sunday night USA primetime is "squad night" for so many rook squads i cant count.
in closing waaaaaaa wwaaaaaaaa sunday night rooks have numbers but all other nights its pretty close in numbers, i just wont mention that. wont mention that friday nights rooks are almost always outnumbered too.
Yea, those numbers quoted by the thread starter are totally false. I was on the entire time checking roster. The most Rooks had on was 217, while Bishops had 142 and Knights had 129. As stated, Bishops and Knights were co-operatively fighting Rooks, so even during our peek numbers this Sunday it was still 217 Rooks Vs. 271 enemy. So, in actual fact Rooks were the ones outnumbered...
Zazen
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rpm371,
Two Sundays ago when we actually did run an organized RJO (last night wasn’t organize or anyone playing ground control for the RJO squads) was chatting over this subject with several other C.O.s that I know from other countries (from FSO events).
So did some research:
http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/master-list-of-squads.xls
There are 491 registered squads of which 341 are actively flying in Camp 54. Of these squads there are two types of squads .. dedicated who only fly for their country and primary who mainly fly for one country but also fly a bit for other countries. Here is the break down of the squads:
82 - Bishop Dedicated - 24.0%
8 - Bishop Primary - 2.3%
96 - Knight Dedicated - 28.2%
16 - Knights Primary - 4.7%
91 - Rook Dedicated - 26.7%
31 - Rook Primary - 9.1%
Interesting enough the Knights have more dedicated squads than the Bishops or the Rooks. When you factor in primary squads then the Rooks take the lead with 122 squads to the Knights 112. The Bishops have the least amount of squads, just 90, and the least primary squads .. seems the Bishops are the most unified for flying for just their country.
Now the next interesting thing is possible pilots. Of the actively flying squads there is a total of 3880 pilots registered. Here is the country break down for them:
970 - Bishop Dedicated - 25.0%
86 - Bishop Primary - 2.2%
1040 - Knight Dedicated - 26.8%
199 - Knights Primary - 5.1%
1195 - Rook Dedicated - 30.8%
390 - Rook Primary - 10.1%
By this once again the Bishops have the least amount of pilots to pull from with just 1056 possible from their dedicated and primary squads. However, if you look at the kills and deaths for the camps you will see that Bishops either are flying a lot of hops (they are leading both the Knights and Rooks in deaths) or they fielding a larger percentage of their potential pilots than the Knights. Plus, I have started tracking arena numbers from 9 – 10 pm EDT and several times the Bishops are equal to the Rooks or actually have more.
Seeming to indicate that the Bishop squads are definitely motivating their pilots to turn out and play. Especially in the light they have the smallest pool or pilots and squads to draw from.
The Knits on the other hand have 112 squads (96 of these dedicated) and a possible pilot pool of 1239. However, they are consistently fielding the least amount of pilots even though they have most dedicated squads, the 2nd most dedicate and primary squads, and the 2nd most possible pilots.
The reason for this we can only guess at. Although as I said a couple main motivating squads on the Knits side about 1 year to 9 months ago dissolved and MAG-33 multi-squad went defunct. I don’t fly Knits so I have no idea what it is like flying over there .. organized, not organized, fun, grumpy, etc.
The Rooks on the other hand have 2nd most dedicated squads, 91 that field 1195 possible pilots to the Knights 1045 possible pilots for 96 dedicated squads. Meaning I think you have larger squads (who are usually more successful of keeping their pilots engaged in the game and turning out) on the Rook side.
But when you factor in the primary squads (those who fly for Rooks and bit for others) then you have see a big discrepancy. Rooks now have possible total of 1585 pilots to pull from.
I would guess since Sunday is becoming known as RJO day (even when its not) that many of these primary swing squads end up flying for Rooks on that day. Which is why you see a spike on Sundays and then the numbers different on other days (Mondays seem to be a favorite Bishop day).
A couple squads switching will help but I am not sure by how much.
HiTech putting into the code a new variable that does not allow people to switch countries to the country with the highest numbers I think will help also. Will prevent independents and primary squads from switching from one country to a country that numbers start to increase.
However, there is only so much HiTech can do since basically everyone really wants the ability to fly for the country, the squad, and the people they want to fly with. So can only go so far with programming solutions.
I know that others have also said BS when I brought up country’s culture or environment but I do think that plays a factor and that concerted work by a bunch of squads to make their country more attractive to fly too has made a difference (Rooks went from around 50 dedicated squads 2+ years ago to 91 now) to attracting and keeping squads and independents.
More than willing to talk about this with anyone and how I think the Rooks got out of the bucket.
P.S. The excel sheet has the Army of Muppets as Rooks Primary .. they are actually now a Knights Primary squad. But it takes me two days to go through all the squads numbers .. so I don't do it often.
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I was on when the Rook numbers jumped way up and they hit A48 big time. Fought there and managed to rtb to A1 with 3 kills but could see from the numbers that A48 was gone.
Right aftert A48 got taken went up from A1 with a squaddie and jumped a bunch of Rook's coming outa A50 and fought with em all the way to A43. Got lucky and again landed 3 kills.
Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50. Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL. Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us. Think we managed to get 4 of em.
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Agreed with Overlag that big maps would make things more challenging. And you are right RJO has reset the MA several times in 2 hours and most times in 3 hours. Although the BJO and country truce has made it much more difficult now .. took 5.5 hours for the first official RJO to do so 2 sundays ago (only run one RJO in AH2 so far).
Small maps only work in the defense if you have a very small front to cover and are able to have the bulk of your pilots defending that small front. I don't think the NW position on Mindano has ever been reset. But if you are getting slammed on two fronts well .. its rough.
But big maps give maneuvering room for flank attacks and allow the smaller country to pick where to concentrate. Allowing them to gain air superiority in select spots while the large country is spread out over a large front.
This was the case in the Russian theater in WW2. The germans in 1943-1944 could win air superiority over certain areas but not the whole front. But it slowed down the Russians as the Russians had to pull forces from other areas to re-win air superiority over a specific front.
So a constant flanking attacks can make things very lively.
As for numbers Bishops are doing a good job motivating their pilots and developing tactics to deal with the situation. But you are right you have a smaller pool of squads and pilots to pull from. Although you are still fielding more than the Knights.
Spreading squad nights out over friday, saturday and sunday will help and running RJOs on other days will help also even numbers more out. Although I think sunday will always be a high number day for Rooks.
Plus, the FSO (Friday Squad Ops) event in the SEA starting up again will pull Rooks their instead of the MA on fridays.
Big problem is that Knights are not pulling a high percentage of their possible numbers.
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That's great stuff GD! Collect those statistics again after school starts back up for Bishops. The Bishop teens are out of school right now and are logging 100+ hours a tour. Do this again after the September camp, you'll see what I mean. I have done a sampling of hours played by people I see in-game alot for all countries at all times of day and night, there's some crazy hour's played numbers on Bishops during the summer! ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
But big maps give maneuvering room for flank attacks and allow the smaller country to pick where to concentrate. Allowing them to gain air superiority in select spots while the large country is spread out over a large front.
Yes, this is exactly what makes Big Maps suck, there is a gang bang by one country in one spot, and the other country in another, 15 sectors away and very rarely any even, pitched battles as we see on the smaller maps. There are few if any choke points or strategically valuable places on large maps unless very close to an HQ, therefore no impetus to mount a static defense/offense. So, the front tends to wander around the map where there is the 'least' amount of enemy resistance . It's a case of gang-bang and vulch or be gang-banged and vulched. With more geographic options than players to cover them there's always undefended areas to run to and avoid real fighting altogether.
Zazen
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The "Battle of Davao Gulf" went on for hours and was fun,
I dont know how you Rooks ever took 31, as we had troops ded 3 sectors back I think. whoever it was deserves many Wtg's, he musta flown a 100 miles.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/147_1090855060_phil_map_mindinao_close_up.jpg)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yes, this is exactly what makes Big Maps suck, there is a gang bang by one country in one spot, and the other country in another, 15 sectors away and very rarely any even, pitched battles as we see on the smaller maps. There are few if any choke points or strategically valuable places on large maps unless very close to an HQ, so no impetus to mount a static defense/offense. So, the front tends to wander around the map where there is the 'least' amount of enemy resistance . It's a case of gang-bang and vulch or be gang-banged and vulched. With more geographic options than players to cover them there's always undefended areas to run to and avoid real fighting altogether.
Zazen
Then, on the other hand ...
On large maps, our squad (3-5 on at a time) can fly to a section on a big map that is not overwhelmed by the horde and "piss in the pool" of the enemy and see if we can stir up people into fighting.
It works quite well and we usually end up with decent fights for a considerable length of time.
Whereas, on the smaller maps, with their very small front, this is much harder, because the horde is also concentrated within the small front.
I prefer the larger maps due to the variety that is available. You can fight against the horde ... or travel with the horde ... or go and "piss in the pool". On smaller maps, it only seems as though you can either fight the horde ... or travel with the horde.
YMMV
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Bish Kills: 114,582
Bish Deaths: 134,406
Knights Kills: 119,102
Knight Deaths: 123,441
Rook Kills: 144,826
Rook Deaths: 120,600
Kills and deaths don't tell you anything about the numbers of players. If country a outnumbers country b 10:1, then the number of kills they get is limited by the small number of targets, so you always expect to see these numbers nearly even. The fact that the rooks have a higher kill:death ratio hints that they may have an unfair advantage, but doesn't tell you how many rooks are online.
--Peregrine.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The simple reason Rooks have numbers on Sundays is, it's almost all of our big squadron's individual squadnights. This was done deliberately back during the lenghthy period when Bishops and Knights both outnumbered Rooks 24/7 and fell all over each other seeing how fast they could reset Rooks, over and over and over and over. This was also when the CO's of virtually all of our squadrons developed the RJO concept we still use today.
That was in 2002. I know I was a rook CO then. The inevitable reply to these types of threads are we were outnumbered for a long time. That is true, I was rook 01-02. Since then both Bish and Knits have held the disadvantaged numbers position. It is 2004 now by the way.
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Originally posted by Murdr
That was in 2002. I know I was a rook CO then. The inevitable reply to these types of threads are we were outnumbered for a long time. That is true, I was rook 01-02. Since then both Bish and Knits have held the disadvantaged numbers position. It is 2004 now by the way.
nope.. it was 02-03... i just started AH in Feb 2002, went rook june 2002 and been there ever since.
the numbers thing was the summer of 2002, to the spring and beyond of 2003.
here is the post where HTC as a company took notice of the numbers inbalance:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72499&highlight=perk date dec 2002.
it has been a while, but not the 3 years you claim.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Then, on the other hand ...
On large maps, our squad (3-5 on at a time) can fly to a section on a big map that is not overwhelmed by the horde and "piss in the pool" of the enemy and see if we can stir up people into fighting.
It works quite well and we usually end up with decent fights for a considerable length of time.
Whereas, on the smaller maps, with their very small front, this is much harder, because the horde is also concentrated within the small front.
I prefer the larger maps due to the variety that is available. You can fight against the horde ... or travel with the horde ... or go and "piss in the pool". On smaller maps, it only seems as though you can either fight the horde ... or travel with the horde.
YMMV
Sounds like coming to an undefended base with some altitude, semi-vulching a couple guys as they up to defend, so long as you don't blow your E you can semi-vulch them all day long. Unless, of course, more start upping than you and your 4 buddies can effetively semi-vulch (no doubt claiming you were now getting gang-banged), then I assume you would pick up your toys and go 'stir up trouble' elsewhere at another undefended field the HUGE maps offer in abundance? ;)
On small maps it's not one horde gang-banging. It's two hordes meeting in a battle that is spread out over a sector or two. Over this area there are many strata of fighting extending vertically and laterally. The fights you seek on big maps are available either up high or on the outer fringes of small map fights, you just have to be a little more creative in finding them. Unlike huge maps where there are undefended bases to go poach a couple enemy with no alt and no E up to veinly try and defend.
Zazen
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Originally posted by JB73
nope.. it was 02-03... i just started AH in Feb 2002, went rook june 2002 and been there ever since.
the numbers thing was the summer of 2002, to the spring and beyond of 2003.
here is the post where HTC as a company took notice of the numbers inbalance:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72499&highlight=perk date dec 2002.
it has been a while, but not the 3 years you claim.
Get some reading comprehension putz! I was there when RJO was first proposed. Rooks DID NOT have numbers then (which I aready said). When rooks did get numbers (to the point they were no longer disadvantaged), I left rooks and went to bishops who were short pilots in 10/02.
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If you want to complain about alt, go fly a perked plane, if you wish to stay low, go fly a zero or somethin, a plane thats not worth losing the alt for.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Get some reading comprehension putz! I was there when RJO was first proposed. Rooks DID NOT have numbers then (which I aready said). When rooks did get numbers (to the point they were no longer disadvantaged), I left rooks and went to bishops who were short pilots in 10/02.
Bishops have never been disadvantaged numerically since I started playing Aces High in August of 2002. Knights are a different story however. GD's statistics prove this.
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1.Truces between countries seem reasonable and practical and may work in the short term, but truces are a departure from a long standing tradition. We should cease to make truces. Lets stay off the slippery slope of trying to get into bed with our competitors.
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peregrin you would be right if you were looking at the statistics for just one camp. But I posted the stastics for 54 camps from Feb. 2000 until now.
First off the Bishops have always lossed more than they have killed except for the first 3 months.
This indicates one of two possible things .. either they on average have had more pilots flying or their pilots fly more hops. Now from 2/00 to 2/03 basically their total number of kills were very competitive with the other two countries (not talking about K/D but total kills).
So at least during this time period you could extrapolate that either they had the most pilots/most active pilots or were second. You have to look at the excel sheet trends to see what I am talking about and compare the overall deaths and overall kills for the countries over this period.
Now starting in 2003 things started to change and instead of wide discrepancies betweent he countries they evened out for a bit and then the Knights tooks a dive and the Rooks surged ahead big time (started 9/03).
So assumptions on one camp and numbers meaningless yes .. but comparing the numbers of 54 camps can start to give you statisctial trends.
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I thought I would add this.
Why call for HT, Pyro, Skuzzy to fix this?
When the Rooks where in down in the dumps, We gathered together and fought back. Joint Ops was a big part of that.
For the Record, The RJO really didnt start for the purpose of balancing numbers, some of our squads where working together back in AW and carried the idea over here. Most of these guys just enjoy working together as a team from time to time.
Because of that, RJOs really helped bring interest to others and strengthen the Rooks position. With that came greater detication and our numbers grew.
So, HTC didnt fix our problems as Rooks, We did.
Perhaps, rather than demanding someone fix your problems, you could actually try to do something yourselves.
HTC did add an incentive with perks to help, so you cant say they have been total unsympathic.
If you must blame someone, Blame the Damned. Im pretty sure its all their fault. ;)
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Numbers depend heavly on what time of day you are talking about. Bishops did have a period of being down during evenings, if that was not the case I would have went directly to knights. However since knights did have a very long period of evening numbers. I waited quite awhile to go there.
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Originally posted by Grimm
I thought I would add this.
Why call for HT, Pyro, Skuzzy to fix this?
That is true. For a practical matter it is up to squads to balance numbers. Some squads make it a policy to not be on the team with the most numbers.
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Originally posted by Grimm
I thought I would add this.
When the Rooks where in down in the dumps, We gathered together and fought back. Joint Ops was a big part of that.
...
If you must blame someone, Blame the Damned. Im pretty sure its all their fault. ;)
Hmm, seems I remember a whooole buncha whining in these boards and in the game about Rooks being out numbered. So much so, that a number of squads actually switched to the Rooks to balance things out.
As for blaming the Damned...yeah, it's probably my fault :).
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I've played only 1 hour in the past 3 weeks. Don't think I can wait 3 years for TOD...
I knew AHII was awsome for a reason. LOL JK.
Hey Beetle why don't you switch to Bish or Knights for a while and get away from the protective blanket of numbers :D. If you don't like the hordes don't fly with then :D.
It is true Rooks. Most of the time, you have the numbers. I found it very easy as a Rook to not worry about getting ganged and just fly.
As a Bish all you do is get ganged so you get used to it. Another thing as a bish, I noticed, is that you could have the numbers in an area and then all of a sudden your alone fighting tons of red. Still can't figure that on out.
As a knight sometimes you have the numbers and more often, lately (3 months ago, before we left home for a while), you don't.
It's just the way it is. Get better at fighting in unimaginable odds, quit worrying about getting killed and forget about score because it means nothing.
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I can't possibly complain about the numbers. Last night despite the numbers discrepency, Knights and Rooks had a nice give-and-take at A44. Sometimes I'd vulch, and other times I'd have to help push back a major charge against our base. It was all there, and it was all good. The numbers were fairly even and the fights plentiful.
Good stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by beet1e
Agreed. Which is why I'm surprised you don't like the pizza map. Not only does that spread out the numbers (a good thing IMO) but it provides some high alt fields which get the Lalas out of their comfort zone, and lets lesser used planes like the P47 hold centre stage for a while.
theres too much land % on pizza....i like open seas to have CVS in.... thats one reason i dont like it
the second reason is the layout when the map starts... WHY have 3 countries PER pizza slice? why not have a country per slice?
oh hang on thats a whole other thread ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds like coming to an undefended base with some altitude, semi-vulching a couple guys as they up to defend, so long as you don't blow your E you can semi-vulch them all day long. Unless, of course, more start upping than you and your 4 buddies can effetively semi-vulch (no doubt claiming you were now getting gang-banged), then I assume you would pick up your toys and go 'stir up trouble' elsewhere at another undefended field the HUGE maps offer in abundance? ;)
On small maps it's not one horde gang-banging. It's two hordes meeting in a battle that is spread out over a sector or two. Over this area there are many strata of fighting extending vertically and laterally. The fights you seek on big maps are available either up high or on the outer fringes of small map fights, you just have to be a little more creative in finding them. Unlike huge maps where there are undefended bases to go poach a couple enemy with no alt and no E up to veinly try and defend.
Zazen
Duh ... yes the base would be undefended until they noticed our presence ... ya goober.
Thanks for the "E" hint ... LOL
No we don't vulch or semi-vulch ... we draw them out from the base and then the games begin. The 13th never complains about be ganged, especially if we pissed in their pool. We are more than happy to deal with more targets than what we bring to the fight. Typically these types of engagements last quite awhile, before things start getting lopsided, if it does get lopsided.
The fights you seek on big maps are available either up high or on the outer fringes of small map fights, you just have to be a little more creative in finding them.
I don't get much above 8K in anything I fly so High alt is out. Was on Mindano yesterday for a bit and could not find anything on the fringe ... the fringe was engulfed by the front.
Unlike huge maps where there are undefended bases to go poach a couple enemy with no alt and no E up to veinly try and defend.
Not our style nor intentions ... the 13th are always looking for good fights ... win or lose ... vulching / semi-vulchin really has no thrill for us.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Hmm, seems I remember a whooole buncha whining in these boards and in the game about Rooks being out numbered. So much so, that a number of squads actually switched to the Rooks to balance things out.
As for blaming the Damned...yeah, it's probably my fault :).
Yes, there were complaints. Yet, the Rooks worked their way out of thier dilema. Personaly I wish that folks didnt complain, and not all do, some just bring things to the table to be examined.
Alright, you admitted it. its your fault... Stone him!@! ;)
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Originally posted by Overlag
theres too much land % on pizza....i like open seas to have CVS in.... thats one reason i dont like it
the second reason is the layout when the map starts... WHY have 3 countries PER pizza slice? why not have a country per slice?
oh hang on thats a whole other thread ;)
at the risk of a derail.. I would agree with ya Overlag. Pizza is a fixable map, we might not all agree on the fixes needed, but it could be adjusted to have overall better play.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
As stated, Bishops and Knights were co-operatively fighting Rooks, so even during our peek numbers this Sunday it was still 217 Rooks Vs. 271 enemy. So, in actual fact Rooks were the ones outnumbered...
For last night that is true since Bish/Knits were working together. However, this has been the first semi successful truce for Bish/Knits in my memory. So normally, given a roughly even distribution within a country fighting each opposing country, you have 108 Rooks hitting 71 Bish and 108 Rooks attacking 64 Knits.
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Originally posted by Wrag: " Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50. Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL. Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us. Think we managed to get 4 of em."
Heh was that you? Ya our squad tried sneaking into 43..but
our target was the town..not the airbase. I was able to take out
a few buildings in 2 passes while you guys furballed with my squad. After hearing quite a few "oh **** I'm down" calls from
them.. I ran like a girly man :)
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Originally posted by Shuckins
The truce worked fairly well at evening things out. Salute to Meddog and others who organized it. Fights were no longer Two to one maulings.
If worked well until a handful of knights logged on who refused to cooperate with their fellow knights in honoring the truce, and attacked the Bish (Salute to the Bish who cooperated in the truce) at 22. When asked to abide by the truce they launched into some "eff the truce" diatribes, flinging insults against Meddog and others who helped organize it.
Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot? Anybody else want 'em?
It was unfortunate to see the 68th take the approach they did. They are a great squad and I have tons of respect for them. It was dissapointing to hear several of them insulting those who set up the truce since normally they are one of the most teamwork oriented squads that the Knits have. Fortunately, not very many Knits came to the denfese of a22 after it was captured.
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For the first two years I played, Rooks were always outnumbered and those who were playing will recall it was an issue. For those years I played only on the Rooks and I tried do my part to help.
I recall how well rook squads like the 81st would give hours of their playing time just to kill barracks, fuel, and ord in order to keep us from being rolled back by the overwhelming numbers.
Whenever enough people were willing to work together and disable nme resources, the lines would generally hold. And whenever people didn't care and just milled around, we hopefully had fun while we were rolled over and reset.
The welfare of my old home team depends on the welfare of the game, so I play on the side of the out-numbered these days. I play for the green side and it may turn out to be Rooks, Knights, or Bishop.
More often than not, too few people on the out-numbered side care enough to fly the simple missions to disable nme resources, and so the side gets over-run. Sunday night, enough Bishops flew those simple missions and disabled troops and the Rook attack could not get rolling.
A half dozen players giving a few minutes of their game time to strafe down barracks can prevent the horde from rolling over the outnumbered side. It is that simple.
When a country gets over-run, the fault lies with that country, because it is easily preventable. Barracks are easier to kill in AH2 than they were in AH1.
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Originally posted by mars01
As a Bish all you do is get ganged so you get used to it. Another thing as a bish, I noticed, is that you could have the numbers in an area and then all of a sudden your alone fighting tons of red. Still can't figure that on out.
Mars, I'll give you a clue...It's because Bishops die really quickly. I have played on Bishops extensively, I experienced the same thing. The simple truth is Bishops get killed very quickly, alot also auger. You can be flying along into what appears to be a 10 on 10 or so, then suddenly, WHAM!, 7 Bishops get killed and /or auger and you're now 3 on 10 and totally screwed. Bishops have no talent for survival, generally speaking, their country statistics are proof of this.
Zazen
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Originally posted by JB73
there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200
i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.[/SIZE]
The peak I noted was 226 Rooks...but I also noted that Rook numbers dropped dramatically after Knits/Bish took bases back during the Truce.
It may not have been an official RJO last night, but we all know that given the large number of Rook squad-nites on Sunday, the attacks may not be as coordinated as a real RJO, but the numbers are just as overwhelming.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Duh ... yes the base would be undefended until they noticed our presence ... ya goober.
Thanks for the "E" hint ... LOL
No we don't vulch or semi-vulch ... we draw them out from the base and then the games begin. The 13th never complains about be ganged, especially if we pissed in their pool. We are more than happy to deal with more targets than what we bring to the fight. Typically these types of engagements last quite awhile, before things start getting lopsided, if it does get lopsided.
Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:
Zazen
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
The Knits on the other hand have 112 squads (96 of these dedicated) and a possible pilot pool of 1239. However, they are consistently fielding the least amount of pilots even though they have most dedicated squads, the 2nd most dedicate and primary squads, and the 2nd most possible pilots.
The reason for this we can only guess at. Although as I said a couple main motivating squads on the Knits side about 1 year to 9 months ago dissolved and MAG-33 multi-squad went defunct. I don’t fly Knits so I have no idea what it is like flying over there .. organized, not organized, fun, grumpy, etc.
We did lose one squad in the last 3 weeks...The Shiznot. They regularly field some very decent pilots for Knits (including Dragoon, Nuke, BadAce and the sub-16 yo 2Shad4u)...they went Rook.
I know that the number of MAW regulars has dropped significantly. Several of our regulars went to the TAS in the last couple of months and then the TAS went Rook. And others have been overcome with events in their real lives so can't fly as much as they used to.
We are happy to see the Muppets come over though.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I can't possibly complain about the numbers. Last night despite the numbers discrepency, Knights and Rooks had a nice give-and-take at A44. Sometimes I'd vulch, and other times I'd have to help push back a major charge against our base. It was all there, and it was all good. The numbers were fairly even and the fights plentiful.
Good stuff.
-- Todd/Leviathn
That is unpossible. Are you implying that some folks might actually look for even fights?? Might enjoy them? Might not give a crap about the reset?
A44 is a true AH gift. Always fun being had there.
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One thing of note with regard to Rook squadrons that Ghostdancer and Grimm alluded to. A very many current Rook squadrons were flying together for years in AWFR. We didn't just come together in AH, we've been together a LONG time. We are not going to switch countries on a whim just because of historically, very temporary, numerical fluctuations. I appreciate that some squadrons choose to do this but, Rooks tend to enjoy a high degree of country fidelity among alot of it's core squadrons.
I have always been of the opinion myself that squadrons should remain with one country or another, it tends to build community within the countries and therefore AH as a whole. The people that should do the moving around are the 20% or so that have no squadron affiliation whatsoever. Those people have no excuses, they should go where they are most needed.
Zazen
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Mars, I'll give you a clue...It's because Bishops die really quickly. I have played on Bishops extensively, I experienced the same thing. The simple truth is Bishops get killed very quickly, alot also auger. You can be flying along into what appears to be a 10 on 10 or so, then suddenly, WHAM!, 7 Bishops get killed and /or auger and you're now 3 on 10 and totally screwed. Bishops have no talent for survival, generally speaking, their country statistics are proof of this.
Zazen your brush is too wide, the Bish have a lot of good sticks. I don't agree with this one bit.
Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.
Zazen, well it's obviouse from your post that you never come down to even the odds, but we do. And you missed the point we don't fly from a perch so we rarely have an alt advantage so there is no waiting for them to get co-alt. We fight anyhwere from 5k to the deck, depending on the distance and numbers we are flying into sometimes 8k.
Try it it's a whole lot more challenging than cherry picking and running.:aok :D
I have always been of the opinion myself that squadrons should remain with one country or another, it tends to build community within the countries and therefore AH as a whole. The people that should do the moving around are the 20% or so that have no squadron affiliation whatsoever. Those people have no excuses, they should go where they are most needed.
Man you are stepping in it today. This comming from a guy wiht Shade accounts. lol.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:
Zazen
Don't be so simplistic so as to cheapen what I have tried to explain.
No we don't wait for an equal number to up, but when there are only 3-5 of us, its very easy for them to up that amount of defenders, or more, in a short amount of time. Along with that, we ALL don't engage (gang) the few that may come up. No fun in that. We do try to make the initial engagement as fair as possible.
Eventually, some of us die, and the remaing guys usually die once they are overwhelmed. We then head back to the same base and hope that they too start to head towards us and we meet in the middle. Now we have the scenario we hoped for.
The inital engagement is only meant to stir up the hornets nest and for the most part, it works ... for us.
I offered an insight as to why I/we tend to like the bigger maps and really have no more impetus to argue the merits of what we try to do to find "fights" ... it was just input. Leave you innuendos at the door.
No need to apologize ... I could really care less if you think it's rediculous or not.
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Rooks don't have numbers because we like to overwhelm. I bet most of us are working adults with families who enjoy working together on operations. Sunday nights just happens to be our best "old folks" time to get together.
... and, gosh darn it... we're just nicer people. That's why numbers gravitate to our side.
:rofl
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TAS went Rook
We went Bish for the month of July. I believe that we will be rotating to the Knits soon.
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Originally posted by Furious
A44 is a true AH gift. Always fun being had there.
Aye, and for the last couple of days it's been loads of fun. Somehow the fights there never seem to tip out of balance for very long. The fact that the two bases aren't terribly far apart also helps.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Overall number sometimes do not give an accurate picture of what is happening in the arena, last night the Rooks on the roster enjoyed a numerical advantage, however that didn't stop both the knights and bishops from chasing myself and some squaddies out of 4 fields last night. Suddenly time and time again I'd look up and see a swarm of enemy fighters barrelling down on me. Even with an overall numbers disadvantage, some organization can yield a local numerical superiority enough to get the job done.
Additionally it all depends on when you log on. I've noticed earlier in the day the rooks are often out numbered. I would simply guess that some of the larger rook based squads just happen to have most their people all in one time zone that falls around 6-8 pm pacific time (my time). If it is really such an issue, I would consider taking my plea to the squad commanders, may be easier asking a squad to make a move rather than having HTC force a move of some sort which I have a hard time believing they will ever do.
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Originally posted by Furious
That is unpossible. Are you implying that some folks might actually look for even fights?? Might enjoy them? Might not give a crap about the reset?
A44 is a true AH gift. Always fun being had there.
A44 causes the strat guys fits !!! All that resource just fighting !!! I mean come on !!! There is a war to be won here fellas.
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Zazen et al... you really can't make the kind of inferences you've been making based on the available data for kills and deaths. We simply cannot conclude that these discrepencies occur due to skill or numbers or anything else at this level of measurement. The number of campaigns does not matter.
If we could disaggregate some of that data, we might be able to learn something. How many sorties did each side fly? On average, what numbers did each side enjoy relative to the other? What planes did each side fly? etc etc.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I never look for a fair fight. I like upping Spit IX's from capped fields just for the challenge of popping Mustang and Typhoon hordes when I'm on the deck and slow. Last night I brought along a belly tank just to make my plane overweight and I still got a kill or two per flight.
Besides, when I'm outnumbered it means that there's less chance of me tripping all over another Rook during the chase.
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Agreed can't make assumptions that they are do to skill, age, etc.
The stats do show some interesting data that indicate rough trends. Couple the campaign stats with the excel file of active squads and break downs per country and we can get some inferences.
For instances the Bishops have the highest deaths in camp 54. Yet, they have the least squads and smallest potential pilot pool from these squads.
So can make the assumption that either the Bishops squads that are flying have a higher number of members flying together on average than the other two countries or that they are flying more sorties in comparison to Rooks and Knights.
Knights on the other hand, while having a solid dedicated squad base and primary base, seem to be fielding the least this camp (and previous camps). As for the reason why .. can't tell from the numbers. Just the fact they have the potential to field the second most number of pilots and have a good dedicated core .. but for whatever reason they aren't.
While Rooks have the largest pool of potential pilots. But then again they have the most squads that fly / dabble flying for other countries (31 squads fly Rooks primarily but also other countries).
So these squads could be wooed to the other side .. or have the best chance of doing so. IMO very hard to convince dedicated squads to switch countries.
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Wow 17 pages, another answer is for Knights and Bishops to form an alliance on sunday nights like we did last night and stopped the Rooks dead in their tracks. With in an hour, over 100 Rooks logged off in frustration. Except for a few Knights and Bish that thought truces were for wusses and attacked the other side anyways, last night was fairly successful for the knights and bishops.
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The outnumbered play smart and there is no issue. In fact, the outnumbered get better action.
The game provides many effective tactics that the outnumbered can use to deter the side with numbers.
It simply boils down to willingness to adjust. Far as I am concerned the numbers hordes are just bigger herds and make for better culling.
The outnumbered get to fly light and interdict except for when they are on barracks busting hops. But a substantial number of the attackers have to come heavy.
Problems I usually see where the defender gives away the advantage is when defenders are slow to scramble, and when defenders settle for chasing low around their field instead of forcing the fight away from the field and at the nme flight path, like when you see 6 guys chasing 1 low nme instead of the other 5 grabbin.
Defenders in light fighters can grab alt faster, and if they get above the incoming heavy fighters they can bounce em and at least force them to jettison ord, and mix it up away from their field.
Outnumbered side can up 262s, and while they are a real sloppy ride in ah2 they nonetheless can hunt low where goons normally travel and have speed to survive low if one maintains a watchful eye.
So, those who care or take some pride in stopping the attacker have many effective tactics. Only issue is whether the outnumbered give a *** about it.
NO TRUCES.
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Reading comprehension 101? You may go to hell sir. It was 12:40 in the morning. I was a little tired. So shoot me.
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blah blah blah.
i remember when it used to be the reds who had the numbers. the worm turns for all.
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Meddog luck with truces .. I find them to be almost impossible to sustain. Had seveal attempts back in AW to form truces .. but no way to control all the various people playing for a side.
As for 100 logging off .. must have been around midnight then .. numbers held in the 180s for Rooks from 9 - 11 and started dropped down in the 160s before I logged.
Not sure if frustration or the simple fact of the east coasters logging off because of work the next day.
A31 was hell of a fight and took 2 hours for the Rooks to capture .. mainly do to having to fly troops from Siberia. Plus, a few me262s kept hunting goons and suprising that a 262 was also scraffing barracks over at A32.
After 31 fell tough fight for V70 and A38 .. but when I left looked like A42 (or is A41 down there on the SE tip) was in trouble. Also A30 was heavily hit.
Was this about the time that Bishops and Knights went at it? Was stiff resistance and then all gone as we started to carve out the eastern bases from you.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
One thing of note with regard to Rook squadrons that Ghostdancer and Grimm alluded to. A very many current Rook squadrons were flying together for years in AWFR. We didn't just come together in AH, we've been together a LONG time. We are not going to switch countries on a whim just because of historically, very temporary, numerical fluctuations. I appreciate that some squadrons choose to do this but, Rooks tend to enjoy a high degree of country fidelity among alot of it's core squadrons.
Hmm, yes well fortunately enough people value gameplay quality above a silly country tag. If all the people that flew together for years in AW suddenly decided they need to fly together, it would be well more than a 100+ advantage.
I have been flying nearly 9 years, and have old friends in every country. Each time I have went to another country, Ive made new friends. I dont buy your argument that strictly segregating the player base to interact with only 1/3 of itself is a community building enterprise. Nor that it should be up to lone wolfs to keep balance. Nobody says your squad or any other in particular should move. As long as a few are self respecting enough to steer away from dogpileing with the advantaged side.
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For last night that is true since Bish/Knits were working together. However, this has been the first semi successful truce for Bish/Knits in my memory. So normally, given a roughly even distribution within a country fighting each opposing country, you have 108 Rooks hitting 71 Bish and 108 Rooks attacking 64 KnitsFor last night that is true since Bish/Knits were working together. However, this has been the first semi successful truce for Bish/Knits in my memory. So normally, given a roughly even distribution within a country fighting each opposing country, you have 108 Rooks hitting 71 Bish and 108 Rooks attacking 64 Knits
Good point. Even an alliance only goes so far. I think the argement that "we used to get ganged all the time...now its your turn" is silly. So...its rooks turn to have numbers and gang everyone else? lol. Human nature at its finest. Also i think its naive to think any one team is more skillfull than the others. If i grab alt I have to fight at a disadvantage against 5 alt monkeys. If I go low its the same thing. Not much room for SA on sunday night. there are still 6 good night of fighting though:) Sunday's its grab your osti and head to the hotpad lol.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
As for 100 logging off .. must have been around midnight then .. numbers held in the 180s for Rooks from 9 - 11 and started dropped down in the 160s before I logged.
Early in the evening, Rooks had 215-225 on...from the Knit persepctive, a43 was about to fall and a1 was in serious jeapordy. With the Truce, we were able to mount a counter-offensive that stopped the a43 assault cold and took down fh at a50. Just after that, several noted that Rook numbers fell to below 200. This was about 9:30-10pm eastern. The offensive carried on to take a48 and a49 around 10-10:30pm...Rook numbers fell to the 170-180 range once those bases were lost.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Hmm, yes well fortunately enough people value gameplay quality above a silly country tag...
That's just the point (and a very subjective one, too). Many of us DO value "gameplay quality". It's just defined differently from your interpretation. Some of us value the gameplay quality that comes from flying with people we have known for longer than Aces High has existed. Your definition of gameplay quality is based on something else besides the enjoyment of friends flying together. It's your money, you can do what you want. But allegiance and loyalties are two big things that keep game communities going strong.
If I'm overwhelmed in the air, I get into a GV. If I can't find a good GV battle, I get into a CV gun and defend a TaskGroup. There's a lot here to keep me interested - and I don't have to constantly switch countries to find it.
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crowMAW I came on around 9:00 and the Nightmares were in the south hitting the Bishops (who were at the time crossing the bay and hitting A42 and P39.
Around that time it looked to me Rooks were at 180+. Not sure of before 9 pm.
I do know the guys up north had problems with 43 and the base way to the north (is that A50) and heavy fighting up there. Didn't really pay attention to the north and just concentrated in the south.
Rook numbers were about split on the two fronts. At least the active squads were .. with a bunch also in the central area.
Numbers while I checked were in teh 180+ from 9 - 11. Drop off into the 160s after 11 but then again everyone seemed to fall a similiar drop.
Was interesting to see Knights have second largest numbers and for a while in the 140s.
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Numbers vary from time to time. The Regulators used to fly Bish.Thats all changed now, but anyway for 1yr or so we flew bish, I have found that bish numbers tend climb in the mornings.(4am est ) as the day crew logs on.Sunday night just happens to be a good night for Rooks.I don't think its a HT prob.Deal with it.
Panman
CO "Regulators":cool:
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
peregrin you would be right if you were looking at the statistics for just one camp. But I posted the stastics for 54 camps from Feb. 2000 until now.
First off the Bishops have always lossed more than they have killed except for the first 3 months.
This indicates one of two possible things .. either they on average have had more pilots flying or their pilots fly more hops. Now from 2/00 to 2/03 basically their total number of kills were very competitive with the other two countries (not talking about K/D but total kills).
So at least during this time period you could extrapolate that either they had the most pilots/most active pilots or were second. You have to look at the excel sheet trends to see what I am talking about and compare the overall deaths and overall kills for the countries over this period.
Now starting in 2003 things started to change and instead of wide discrepancies betweent he countries they evened out for a bit and then the Knights tooks a dive and the Rooks surged ahead big time (started 9/03).
So assumptions on one camp and numbers meaningless yes .. but comparing the numbers of 54 camps can start to give you statisctial trends.
I'm not arguing that the numbers lack statistical significance, but that they measure the wrong thing.
You claim that the number of players logged on is proportional to the number of kills they get. When in actuality the number of kills they get is more dependant on the number of players available to get killed.
A more usefull statistic would be to sum up the aggregate time on line for each country. Alas that statistic is unavailable on this website.
--Peregrine.
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I think the argement that "we used to get ganged all the time...now its your turn" is silly. So...its rooks turn to have numbers and gang everyone else? lol. Human nature at its finest.[/b]
The arguement is not that we used to get ganged all the time and now its your turn (at least by some of us). What the arguement is that it takes time and some effort to turn things around.
Rooks were in the bucket badly for 2 years and actually until 2003 fielded the least amount of players (4 years straight). HiTech modified the perk system, several squads came over and flew Rooks for a campaign or two, etc. The Rook squads form the RJO to work with each other in a multi-squad format since no one squad was big enough to do things by themselves. Several squads went onto a recruiting drive, missions were posted to entice independents, etc., etc.
What some of us are saying is that you can't expect things to turn around over night or not without some collective effort.
It looks like USMC and 367th are trying to do some collective work and also apply strategy and tactics to deal with the situation. This is a very good step to do and what we did and proved effective the last two weeks. But it takes a lot of work and time to turn things around. Plus, some don't believe it was turned around by collective effort in the case of the Rooks.
So its not a matter of its your turn in the bucket and tough; its a matter of well here is what you can do about it but things aren't going to turn around in a month or two. Its going to take longer than that.
As for Rooks ganging one side over the other currently Rooks have been attacking the country with more numbers, not less on the average. Also at least over the past two weeks while Rooks have numbers you are not seeing 80% against one side and 20% against the other. You are seeing like 55%-60% versus one and 45%-40% versus the other .. roughly.
Camp stats bear this out at least for Camp 54 so far.
76902 Bishops killed (52.3%)
60974 killed by Bishops
70316 Knights killed (47.8%)
61822 killed by Knights
Rooks have been attacking the Bishops more than the Knights since the Bishops have more numbers and with it are more aggressive or have opportunity to be more aggressive generally than Knights. Yes, Rooks have numbers but in general they are not going after the weakest are throwing most of the numbers against just one country to the exclusion of the other.
Also yes, it would be nice if some squads switched over to Knights. However, as we found out very few squads will just switch of their own accord. A handful did and came over for a couple of camps. A few stayed but in the end it didn't help us that much. But it did give us a breather to stop working on recruiting independents into our squads and increasing pilot turnout of our squads (stopping the bleed of people stop playing or avoiding certain nights).
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
That's just the point (and a very subjective one, too). Many of us DO value "gameplay quality". It's just defined differently from your interpretation. Some of us value the gameplay quality that comes from flying with people we have known for longer than Aces High has existed. .....There's a lot here to keep me interested - and I don't have to constantly switch countries to find it.
Neither do I. And if you had bothered to read my post I said I can go to any country and fly with people that I have know that pre-date AH. In the tours where I have flown for more than one country it was specifically to fly with some of these friends. I however do not find gratification with flying around often in an overwelming horde (on either side).
If my "interpretation" of "gameplay quality" is so radical, then why do the many threads like this one exist? Mabey because that type of complacentcy ignores the overall gameplay quality.
So I guess I am just out of wack, because I cant see constantly flying around outnumbering everyone, and then patting myself on the back for a job well done.
The replies I got to just saying "That is true. For a practical matter it is up to squads to balance numbers." are really surprising to me, as I did not single anyone out. For a practical matter if a country consistantly up by 30 pilots, and 2 active squads decide to move, then things balance out rather quickly. I dont understand why people are being touchy about that.
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Originally posted by Grimm
Yes, there were complaints. Yet, the Rooks worked their way out of thier dilema. Personaly I wish that folks didnt complain, and not all do, some just bring things to the table to be examined.
Alright, you admitted it. its your fault... Stone him!@! ;)
Hmm, you seem to want to gloss over what allowed the Rooks to work "their way of of thier dilema." It wasn't organization or RJO's, it was the fact the a few intrepid Bish/Knit squads chose to go Rook.
Personally, I really don't care much. I used to enjoy playing on the weekends. Now....I do other stuff and let you guys steamroll the arena to your virtual hearts' content. It really is no different than when the Air Warrior WarHawks had their squad nite on Sunday's in the early '90's. The arena limits were 32 players and at least 24 of them would be WH's. Hey...welcome to life in the virtual world. Accept it and deal with it is my motto :).
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
Rooks don't have numbers because we like to overwhelm. I bet most of us are working adults with families who enjoy working together on operations. Sunday nights just happens to be our best "old folks" time to get together.
... and, gosh darn it... we're just nicer people. That's why numbers gravitate to our side.
:rofl
Exactly Hyrax!
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Nobaddy a few intrepid Knight & Bishop squads came over. The key here is a "few". They bought us a little breathing space (by that mean not being crushed as badly) to rally members of our squads and start to work and rebuild squads and tie in independents.
They flew most only flew with us a few camps before moving. Some stayed ..
But it took from Oct. 2001 to 2003 to work out of the hole.
A few squads did not just come over and bam everything was roses or the numbers evened out in a month or two.
The Bishops only have 82 dedicated squads, and 8 primary squads with a total of 1056 pilots. Yet, they are fielding consistently the second most numbers and a few nights now and then the most.
The Knights have 96 dedicated and 16 primary for a possible of 1239 pilots. But are consistently fielding the least number of pilots.
A few squads switching to help out the Knights would be great. And a couple have. But it would take more than a few to switch to balance things out. You would need like 200+ players switching. And then in the case of the Knights more of their pilots flying again.
What squads switching will do is to buy Knight squads breathing space to start engaging their guys in the game again, finding new recruits, and gain their legs. But it won't happen over night and not simply because a few squads switch for a bit.
They need squads to switch and stay not switch and leave. They need the squads that they have to start having their pilots fly more. Possibly they need could use more missions being posted and run .. I know when Ripsnort used to be a Knight he ran missions all the time and caused us no end of headaches.
Knights used to have MAG-33 .. a multi squad group .. maybe that would help also.
Don't know.
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
That's just the point (and a very subjective one, too). Many of us DO value "gameplay quality". It's just defined differently from your interpretation. Some of us value the gameplay quality that comes from flying with people we have known for longer than Aces High has existed. Your definition of gameplay quality is based on something else besides the enjoyment of friends flying together. It's your money, you can do what you want. But allegiance and loyalties are two big things that keep game communities going strong.
If I'm overwhelmed in the air, I get into a GV. If I can't find a good GV battle, I get into a CV gun and defend a TaskGroup. There's a lot here to keep me interested - and I don't have to constantly switch countries to find it.
My sentiments exactly, very well explained.
Zazen
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Don't be so simplistic so as to cheapen what I have tried to explain.
No we don't wait for an equal number to up, but when there are only 3-5 of us, its very easy for them to up that amount of defenders, or more, in a short amount of time. Along with that, we ALL don't engage (gang) the few that may come up. No fun in that. We do try to make the initial engagement as fair as possible.
Eventually, some of us die, and the remaing guys usually die once they are overwhelmed. We then head back to the same base and hope that they too start to head towards us and we meet in the middle. Now we have the scenario we hoped for.
The inital engagement is only meant to stir up the hornets nest and for the most part, it works ... for us.
I offered an insight as to why I/we tend to like the bigger maps and really have no more impetus to argue the merits of what we try to do to find "fights" ... it was just input. Leave you innuendos at the door.
No need to apologize ... I could really care less if you think it's rediculous or not.
Sounds like what you, few, honorable people :rolleyes: really need is the Combat Theater, not ENORMOUS MA MAPS. ;) Then, you 4 guys and the other 4 guys in there can take turns bashing each other's brain's out at 4k in SpitV's or whichever flavor stall-fighter it has at the time. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by meddog
Wow 17 pages, another answer is for Knights and Bishops to form an alliance on sunday nights like we did last night and stopped the Rooks dead in their tracks. With in an hour, over 100 Rooks logged off in frustration. Except for a few Knights and Bish that thought truces were for wusses and attacked the other side anyways, last night was fairly successful for the knights and bishops.
Hate to burst your bubble there guy, but it was squadnight for us, we don't have squadnight for 5+ hours, it's a one or two hour thing. Rooks logging-off had not thing one to do with any perceived success you think you were having against them. Simply, squad night was over, time for bed to get up for work Monday morning...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Murdr
The replies I got to just saying "That is true. For a practical matter it is up to squads to balance numbers." are really surprising to me, as I did not single anyone out. For a practical matter if a country consistantly up by 30 pilots, and 2 active squads decide to move, then things balance out rather quickly. I dont understand why people are being touchy about that. [/B]
You hit the nail on the head. HiTech is not going to force anybody or any squad to switch. Nobody likes being dictated too or forced to do something they don't want to do .. like switch if its not their idea.
The crux of the matter is what convinces those 2 squads to move? Plus, once moved they probably will stay with the country the moved too for a while. Since its a pain to get everyone to move and re-oriented (at least for medium and big squads). Plus, humans tend to be tribal and invest more into a flag, boundry lines, ethnicity, etc. than what seems logical. So you will always have squad members refusing to move or very unhappy over moving. Although their are a few squads that don't mind it and their used to be some that rotated every camp .. don't see those any more.
But when a squad does move the new country needs to be receptive and working on keeping those new people. I know back in 2002 there was a time that those Rooks left were very hostile to new squads coming over "to save us" with the purpose to save us when we were in the bucket. Several idiots ran their mouths so much those who came over to help left because it wasn't worth the hostility. Then you always have those idiots who yell about spying etc.
But their are three routes .. either get more of your squad members flying, recruit more members, or convince some other squads to move or if they move make them very welcome and fun environment. Some combination of the 3 over a period of time does make a significant difference.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Zazen et al... you really can't make the kind of inferences you've been making based on the available data for kills and deaths. We simply cannot conclude that these discrepencies occur due to skill or numbers or anything else at this level of measurement. The number of campaigns does not matter.
If we could disaggregate some of that data, we might be able to learn something. How many sorties did each side fly? On average, what numbers did each side enjoy relative to the other? What planes did each side fly? etc etc.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I'm not basing my demographics specualtions on statistics. I'm basing my demographic specualtions on personal experience. Todd, go Bishop for a few days, make sure you have VOX on REAL LOUD. What you will hear is the shrill squeal of the unchanged voices of pre-pubescent boys 7 out of 10 transmissions. Then after your head is pounding and your eardrums ruptured, go Rooks and listen to the deep tonal quality of the adults for comparison.
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Yea, those numbers quoted by the thread starter are totally false. I was on the entire time checking roster. The most Rooks had on was 217, while Bishops had 142 and Knights had 129.
Nice try at flaming me after I logged. The numbers I posted were accurate at the time of the post. It did get better as the horde started to log. You guys are losing the focus of the post, it's not RJO on Sundays that is the problem. It's an everyday numbers thing. Last night was just the worst I had seen in quite a while.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
First off the Bishops have always lossed more than they have killed except for the first 3 months.
This indicates one of two possible things .. either they on average have had more pilots flying or their pilots fly more hops. Now from 2/00 to 2/03 basically their total number of kills were very competitive with the other two countries (not talking about K/D but total kills).
Or is it possible the Bishops just die alot more and kill alot less than Rooks per average sortie? Saying all countries have an exactly equal amount of skill and talent is a very romantic notion, and very politically correct. I personally believe it's totally ludicrous and highly improbable statistically. Fantasizing that skill/talent evenly distributes itself randomly across the 3 countries by chance or design is rediculously naive and is in complete contradiction to human nature. There is a difference in the flying skill/talent/tactics of each country, that is why the Kills and Deaths statistics for each country remain relatively constant over the course of years regardless of wide numerical fluctuations.
If you use logical deductive reasoning when looking at the Kill/Death statistics from the beginning of AH to the present, skill/talent/tactics are the only possible explanation why those numbers remain relatively constant while the number of players/sorties fluctuates greatly. Obviously, those consistant Kill/Death numbers are not derived from the numbers of players or sorties flown, the causal factor has to be the 'quality' of players, therefore the 'quality' of the individual sorties flown.
There is a core of players each country has that does not switch countries, so largely defines their particular countries' 'character'. I'm sorry, but there is a difference between the countries, I know, I fly all of them. It's as obvious as a dog's balls if you actually fly for the different countries for protracted periods and pay attention to patterns and behavior.
Zazen
P.S. Sorry if this offends anyone, 'political correctness' has never been one of my character flaws. ;)
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For the record my country is my squad ... and it appear they fly rook currently :)
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
crowMAW I came on around 9:00 and the Nightmares were in the south hitting the Bishops (who were at the time crossing the bay and hitting A42 and P39.
Around that time it looked to me Rooks were at 180+. Not sure of before 9 pm.
That does not sound inconsistant with what I observed. Earlier in the evening -- 8-8:30 pm -- Rook numbers were in the 215-225 range. The Truce began working between 8:30-9pm. Counter offensives began and Rooks (at least in the north) were repelled 9-9:30pm.
It is certainly plausable that by 9:30 Rook squad night was over and 40 Rook members logged for bed. But it sure seems like Rook normally maintain much higher numbers on Sunday eves than they did last night...especially when they are on a roll an only 11 bases from a reset on a small map. I know that our squad night ops usually run till 11pm for the east coast guys on a weekday night, but do continue on till 11pm pacific for the west coast guys. I can only assume that Rook squads are about the same.
Perhaps the Truce's success had no significant effect on Rook numbers. But I can tell you this...I noticed a few guys that I know to have been Rook earlier in the day were flying Knit during the Truce and being very verbal about the stupidity of a truce and trying to break it by setting up missions against the Bish. I outed at least one of those people and the mission was scrubbed. So at least some of the Rook decline in numbers was due to the Truce.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds like what you, few, honorable people :rolleyes: really need is the Combat Theater, not ENORMOUS MA MAPS. ;) Then, you 4 guys and the other 4 guys in there can take turns bashing each other's brain's out at 4k in SpitV's or whichever flavor stall-fighter it has at the time. :rolleyes:
The only thing that surpasses your arrogance is your use of the roll eyes emoticon. ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
go Rooks and listen to the deep tonal quality of the adults for comparison.
Time to come out of the closet.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The only thing that surpasses your arrogance is your use of the roll eyes emoticon. ;)
It's my favorite! ;)
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Originally posted by Dr.Phil
Time to come out of the closet.
Wow, you created a BBS account just to be cute, that's just...ummm....special. ;)
Zazen :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
Reading comprehension 101? You may go to hell sir. It was 12:40 in the morning. I was a little tired. So shoot me.
LOLOLOL. You may notice that I replied at 1:19 in the morning and was sufficiently lucid despite having been up since 4:30 AM the previous morning. ;)
I cannot shoot anyone else for a while... The local Sheriff stated that he will no longer entertain the self-defense excuse, largely due to two biceps and two forearms not meeting the spirit of law in defining unfriendly people as being "armed". Simply saying "oops!" drew a stern frown of reproof.
Seriously, please accept my apology for being rude. I get cranky when tired.
My regards,
Widewing
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so what do you guys want
putting all new players into the most short handed country when they log for the first time?
did not let anyone log unto to a country with a much larger amount of players?
like if the rooks have 45% more players then the lowest country so no more people can log on to the rooks and take off so there forced to move to other country
the first 1 will help but it well turn the lowest country into a noob hole with alot more rookies then the others
the 2 will make alot of people madd and whines will be huge and will if anyone cares make more spys which i dont realy care about
but plz bring up some idea if your going to make a thread
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Originally posted by simshell
so what do you guys want
putting all new players into the most short handed country when they log for the first time?
did not let anyone log unto to a country with a much larger amount of players?
What I really want is winning lotto numbers!! But, I would be satisfied if everyone quit complaining about odds. :)
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Originally posted by Murdr
And if you had bothered to read my post...
I guess I'm too stupid to understand your use of the English language as I did read your post.
You believe quality of gameplay is about equivalent forces. I believe quality of gameplay is more about enjoying working with people I like. That means I still play for "my side" even when we're getting our prettythanges handed to us on certain evenings when WE are outnumbered. I don't whine about it. It's just a game.
Have I missed your point again ?
Do you understand mine ?
Any more 8th grade taunts you wish to hurl at me ?
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Seriously, please accept my apology for being rude. I get cranky when tired.
[/B]
HA! I beat ya....I was up since three the previous morning. Only 1 and a half hour difference but who cares. Apologie accepted.
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the day i land a sortie with 5 kills in the ma is the day the knights get overwhelming numbers.
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Just wanted to show it's not only Sunday nights. At 11:30 Monday night the numbers were:
Bishop- 72
Knight- 83
Rook- 128
Bishops had a small advantage earlier for squad night, then it returned to normal.
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
I guess I'm too stupid to understand your use of the English language as I did read your post.
You believe quality of gameplay is about equivalent forces. I believe quality of gameplay is more about enjoying working with people I like. That means I still play for "my side" even when we're getting our prettythanges handed to us on certain evenings when WE are outnumbered. I don't whine about it. It's just a game.
Have I missed your point again ?
Do you understand mine ?
Any more 8th grade taunts you wish to hurl at me ?
No, your reply ignored what I had said about flying with people I enjoy flying with and that Ive known since 95-96, and then proceeded to explain to me what it is like to fly with people predating AH. Now how should I perceve a reply like that? Either you didnt read it, or you are trying to be condecending with me.
Now you are explaining to me that I "believe gameplay is about equivalent forces" which is not what I said. I did not even enter this thread whining about the numbers. The thread starter wants HTC to do something about the numbers. I disagree with that, because its up to the squads to deal with that, not HTC. For some reason you seem to have a problem with that as if I am attacking your squad or you personally, which I am not.
So what is your point? Other than agreeing with me that flying with friends is great, and screw all the other players that only get to fly a little bit in the evenings and log on to find their country overrun all the time (why should they enjoy the game)?
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Having even numbers will never be enough.
People will always whine that X side is outnumbered by Y side.
Your best bet is to be more friendly and form up with the pilots on your side. If you see a guy thats not in a squad, have him join your squad for a squad night or even ask him to join the actual squad.
Establish email contacts with other squads, just because you have a squad night for just your squad, you can't have a bi-squad or tri-squad night. And having it last an hour sometimes isn't enough. Try for two or even three hours. If you can get 20 guys dedicated on a purpose, you can pretty much influence a front.
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Originally posted by Ohio330
Originally posted by Wrag: " Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50. Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL. Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us. Think we managed to get 4 of em."
Heh was that you? Ya our squad tried sneaking into 43..but
our target was the town..not the airbase. I was able to take out
a few buildings in 2 passes while you guys furballed with my squad. After hearing quite a few "oh **** I'm down" calls from
them.. I ran like a girly man :)
LOL was a good fight! There was 3 of us. 2 in 190d9's and I think 1 in a 262. Me, and if I recall correctly WMScrap and Spacer.
We were up around 22k and we saw these low p38's and just couldn't resist :D
Didn't think any of ya actually got away with your ord and hit your target!
A little later more squadies, about 8 of us I think, came on and we did a successful pork the FH's run on A50 in 110's. Then we furballed for awhile near A44.
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Plus que ca change, plus que c'est la meme chose.
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Originally posted by mars01
As a Bish all you do is get ganged so you get used to it. Another thing as a bish, I noticed, is that you could have the numbers in an area and then all of a sudden your alone fighting tons of red. Still can't figure that on out.
This is the reason I left the bishops. The majority will not tuff it out. I have found myself in many situations when bish were defending a base, lost the advantage and abandoned the few who really didnt care about their stats. There would be 20 bish then a few minutes later there would be 4 or 5. Mind you they stop upping even before the enemy is over the base to vulch. Bish will not fight without the advantage. The moment that the advantage seems to slip bish numbers slip even faster. Mars my friend, bish have a few great sticks, but most lack skill. Next time you are in that situation watch how it unfolds then you will see why you end up alone.
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We were up around 22k
lol
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Originally posted by RTSigma
Having even numbers will never be enough.
People will always whine that X side is outnumbered by Y side.
Your best bet is to be more friendly and form up with the pilots on your side. If you see a guy thats not in a squad, have him join your squad for a squad night or even ask him to join the actual squad.
Establish email contacts with other squads, just because you have a squad night for just your squad, you can't have a bi-squad or tri-squad night. And having it last an hour sometimes isn't enough. Try for two or even three hours. If you can get 20 guys dedicated on a purpose, you can pretty much influence a front.
I agree completely. You make a GREAT point !
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Originally posted by Murdr
No, your reply ignored what I had said about flying with people I enjoy flying with and that Ive known since 95-96, and then proceeded to explain to me what it is like to fly with people predating AH. Now how should I perceve a reply like that? Either you didnt read it, or you are trying to be condecending with me.
Originally posted by Murdr
Hmm, yes well fortunately enough people value gameplay quality above a silly country tag.
This is an example of "condecending" from your previous post. What did you mean by it (if not equalizing force levels) ? or were you just trolling ?
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Originally posted by jamusta
This is the reason I left the bishops. The majority will not tuff it out. I have found myself in many situations when bish were defending a base, lost the advantage and abandoned the few who really didnt care about their stats. There would be 20 bish then a few minutes later there would be 4 or 5. Mind you they stop upping even before the enemy is over the base to vulch. Bish will not fight without the advantage. The moment that the advantage seems to slip bish numbers slip even faster. Mars my friend, bish have a few great sticks, but most lack skill. Next time you are in that situation watch how it unfolds then you will see why you end up alone.
Everyone listen to someone who knows from first-hand experience, and is not just spouting some subjective, opinionated, bird guano. Each country has a 'unique character'. Jamusta has neatly summed up Bishop's 'unique character' right here in this post, read it and let it sink in real deep. This is long experience and carefull observation talking here.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
This is an example of "condecending" from your previous post. What did you mean by it (if not equalizing force levels) ? or were you just trolling ?
Well I wasnt talking to you in the post you sited, but ok. You appearently have been around long enough to see players who only have an hour here and there to fly. I assume you also have been around enough to see how consistant lopsided numbers affect those players. Nobody wants to have their recreation time to be frustrating.
Fortunately there are also players/squads who would rather not be on the advantaged side because it isnt challenging enough for them, and will switch to the disadvantaged side because of that. Where is the troll in that? And why do you have such a problem with that observation?
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Originally posted by Steve
lol
I have the impression that YOU SIR seem to have a problem with either my conduct or my flying within AH.
I got this impression from the comments you sent me on the private channel.
As I recall you objected to being shot in the face WHEN YOU flew straight at me from around 2k out.
My thoughts were this is a HO!
After all in every situation prior to this when someone comes right at me NOSE to NOSE they are going to shoot me in the face. Some even do this with tracers off.
After the 1st pass YOU came right at me straight and level. I saw NO attempt to evade. Just right at me.
I fired........
you exploded.
You then private me cursing me and claiming that we were in a 1v1. A 1v1? I saw 3 of your countrymen just below us engaged with 1 of mine, and dove less then 1k downward and shot one down right after I shot you. I got your private about then. I had to evade and run for abit from the other 2. I still have the pictures of what was said. Included with those pictures is my response to you and the squelching of further coms from you.
At the time many were having problems with AHII. I figured that was probably why I got this ill mannered treatment. I am aware that some of us were rather frustrated with game play. I also saw your thread claiming you were upset and going to quite this sim. Bugs needed ironing out etc. So I did nothing about it extending the benefit of the doubt.
If you SIR have a problem with the manner in which I conduct myself within AH, or a problem with the manner in which I fly in AH......
PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, TAKE IT UP WITH HTC!
I pay my money and you pay your's. I see no reason why your money or your attitude should be any more valid then mine or anyone else's.
I have no intention of putting up with being cursed by you or anyone within this community or any other.
I do not have channel 200 tuned for a reason. Apparently that was noticed by you and yet you still felt the need to private me with your abuse. It would probably be a bad idea on your part to do so again.
I do not consider your attitude, or your money, or you, to be special, or to give you some privilage, or make you more important then others, in any manner whatsoever. I add here I do not consider mine any better then anyone else's either. I do not take my frustration out on others. Well ... ahh... errrr.... sometimes my squaddies find themselves listening to my rants :( SORRY GUYS and thanks for puttin up with me!!!!!!
I asked others about this type of behavior from this individual and gotten comments. It was recommended to me that due to past expierences by others, I report/send the pictures to HTC, as I said earlier I did not do this. Thus my above reply. I hope this settles this matter.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Well I wasnt talking to you in the post you sited, but ok. You appearently have been around long enough to see players who only have an hour here and there to fly. I assume you also have been around enough to see how consistant lopsided numbers affect those players. Nobody wants to have their recreation time to be frustrating.
Fortunately there are also players/squads who would rather not be on the advantaged side because it isnt challenging enough for them, and will switch to the disadvantaged side because of that. Where is the troll in that? And why do you have such a problem with that observation?
Yeow ! This is like nailing jello to the wall.
I don't have a problem with your observation that some players/squads will change sides when they feel like it for WHATEVER reason. I have a problem with you characterizing people who STAY with a country (regardless of temporary lopsided numbers) as not caring about quality of gameplay - which is what you INFERRED. My assertion was (and is) that gameplay is not solely represented by balancing numbers among all countries but by other things that are valued very highly.
Comaraderie being one of them.
...so I will retire from any further discussion on the matter....LOL !
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Originally posted by rpm371
Hitech, Skuzzy, Pyro, et al.
Why is it 95% of the time there are more Rooks than any other country? I logged on tonight to 260 Rooks vs 170 Knights and 140 Bishops. The game used to be sort of balanced but since the switch it has become obviously lopsided.
I know both Bishops and Knights have won a couple resets, but there needs to be some balancing done by HTC. It is getting very old, very fast.
I don't normally post whines, but this one has some validity. Flame away.
I've seen this hunk of cheese so many times over the last 8-10 yrs that it's become expected.
The problem here is people tend to look into present and not past or future. This rotaion of population happens ALL the time. It may be Rooks with more on their side for several months, then before you know it'll be Bish with the numbers. The second people feel one side has all the numbers they tend to move to the under dog side, which then gives them the numbers and someone else the under dog for a while, and the cycle will go on and on and on.
IN AW it was the same exact whines. Certain players would TRY to apply pressure ott he suits to make it so all sides are equal all the time. TO do so is to force someone to be on a side they don't want to be on to please a few fustrated players. There is NO real logical way to keep things even without taking something away from one paying customer to please another.
You just have to deal with the influx from side to side.
If you are finding yourself in a 10-1 fight then YOU are not properly applying SA. WHY would you allow yourself to fall into an inevitable death? The sky is HUGE, you can see these ten planes coming from how far away? You can't decide within the 2-5 minutes it takes them to reach you that that is not a position you'd like to be in? if you allow yourself to fall intot he grips of 10 blood thirsty pilots, then , honestly, you deserve to die.
Maybe you feel godly and brave flying into it, but the only real way out is in a body bag is that brave or ignorant?
Just sayin
2 cents
Anim
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
I've seen this hunk of cheese so many times over the last 8-10 yrs that it's become expected.
The problem here is people tend to look into present and not past or future. This rotaion of population happens ALL the time. It may be Rooks with more on their side for several months, then before you know it'll be Bish with the numbers. The second people feel one side has all the numbers they tend to move to the under dog side, which then gives them the numbers and someone else the under dog for a while, and the cycle will go on and on and on.
IN AW it was the same exact whines. Certain players would TRY to apply pressure ott he suits to make it so all sides are equal all the time. TO do so is to force someone to be on a side they don't want to be on to please a few fustrated players. There is NO real logical way to keep things even without taking something away from one paying customer to please another.
You just have to deal with the influx from side to side.
If you are finding yourself in a 10-1 fight then YOU are not properly applying SA. WHY would you allow yourself to fall into an inevitable death? The sky is HUGE, you can see these ten planes coming from how far away? You can't decide within the 2-5 minutes it takes them to reach you that that is not a position you'd like to be in? if you allow yourself to fall intot he grips of 10 blood thirsty pilots, then , honestly, you deserve to die.
Maybe you feel godly and brave flying into it, but the only real way out is in a body bag is that brave or ignorant?
Just sayin
2 cents
Anim
Great post Animal! we need this post Sticky'd to the top of this message board before next Sunday so we never have to endure another thread like this again! ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
If you are finding yourself in a 10-1 fight then YOU are not properly applying SA. WHY would you allow yourself to fall into an inevitable death? The sky is HUGE, you can see these ten planes coming from how far away? You can't decide within the 2-5 minutes it takes them to reach you that that is not a position you'd like to be in? if you allow yourself to fall intot he grips of 10 blood thirsty pilots, then , honestly, you deserve to die.
I agree with the other stuff you said, but this part, where do you fly? HTH? LOL on these small maps there is almost always some high la7 or pee51 looking to drop 15k on the first red dar dot they see. Which in turn either corrals ya into his 10 buddies, or ties you up long enough for his buddies to come to you. All it takes is to engage 1v1 and if it lasts for more that a few turns, you're bait for every cherry picking plane in the sector.
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bla bla bla just kill the rooks.
love it when they think they are uber
:aok
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It was recommended to me that due to past expierences by others, I report/send the pictures to HTC, as I said earlier I did not do this.
By all means, send them in. Don't forget to tell your mommy too.
How did we actually get into a merge? Did you dive down from 22k?
:rolleyes:
If you SIR have a problem with the manner in which I conduct myself within AH, or a problem with the manner in which I fly in AH......
Well, I get bemused that people feel the need to fly at 22k and HO on the first merge. I'm sure I was frustrated that I finally got someone to merge w/ me and they went straight to the HO. I've come to expect it though. The days when people learned ACM and actually developed virtual pilot skills seem to be past us, with some pleasant exceptions.
It would probably be a bad idea on your part to do so
again.
Or what? Are you going to tell your mommy again?
I don't know you, but I don't bother to get to know tards like you that never bother to become a challenge to fight in the game. You do what you feel you need to do. Should I expect a call from your school principal as well?
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love it when they think they are uber
Bug, I respectfully disagree w/ Jamusta's (nuttin personal Jamusta, sir, just that my opinion varies from yours) view of bish and of those who think that the rooks are somehow superior. Yes, I understand the rooks have a higher K/D than the other teams but my fairly extensive experience in the MA tells me that all 3 sides are pretty much equal. Aall 3 sides have their share of good pilots, dweebs, noobs, and my favorite: guys that are fun to fly with because they are fun to be around.
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Originally posted by Murdr
I agree with the other stuff you said, but this part, where do you fly? HTH? LOL on these small maps there is almost always some high la7 or pee51 looking to drop 15k on the first red dar dot they see. Which in turn either corrals ya into his 10 buddies, or ties you up long enough for his buddies to come to you. All it takes is to engage 1v1 and if it lasts for more that a few turns, you're bait for every cherry picking plane in the sector.
Well, true to a point, but isn't flying from a farther, healthier, base the SOP? This is *usually* the cherry picker's worst enemy. It doesn't always work, but it provides better chances.
IMO, I never uderstood why you could always find certain players at 30k+. I like flying both high and low. Ilike fighting high, it's usually enough room for a good long fight.
I also never understood why most players tend to think that every fight should be as even as a duel.
Alt and E are the preferred when engaging a target. Everyone wants the alt advantage, pretty common sense suff, yet if they don't have it they scream alt monkey. I always saw that as like an oximoron, or catch 22.
In AW I used to fly 20-30 plane missions to 30k+, over and around all furballs to the heart of that country, all the main facs. Usually 4 B17s surrounded by P-51s, Spit IXs, and P-38s. It would take almost the whole map to get everyone up there and too targets at a safe alt. More often then not these were 45 min. to hour runs. As boring as that sounds it was a great time, and more often then not 90% of the 17s landed their bombing points.
I guess what I'm blabbing is that everyone wants that instant fight, it's that way of thinking that a cherry picker loves. He took the time to get up there and he's going to use it to his advantage whether you like it or not. it's one of those, if the shoe was on the other foot things. It's cheap to make a living out of cherry picking though.
Take some time, get 10 squadies up to 30k and clear the cherry pickers out. When they get tired of losing their ars after all that time of climbing they'll come down. I always waited for them to come down to me anyways. They have too if they want me.
If these small arenas maps are too crowded then maybe a second MA should be considered. I think the big maps are great for events etc... but I always preferred the smaller muliple arena setup.
But IMO you really cannot tamper with the population of sides itself. In a way, it's like a biosphere, tamper with one thing and the whole thing goes to crap.
there is no real *easy* answer.
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Originally posted by Steve
By all means, send them in. Don't forget to tell your mommy too.
How did we actually get into a merge? Did you dive down from 22k?
:rolleyes:
Well, I get bemused that people feel the need to fly at 22k and HO on the first merge. I'm sure I was frustrated that I finally got someone to merge w/ me and they went straight to the HO. I've come to expect it though. The days when people learned ACM and actually developed virtual pilot skills seem to be past us, with some pleasant exceptions.
Or what? Are you going to tell your mommy again?
I don't know you, but I don't bother to get to know tards like you that never bother to become a challenge to fight in the game. You do what you feel you need to do. Should I expect a call from your school principal as well?
LOLROF You dove on me from the sea on our first merge LOL AND YOU reversed and came back at me!!! and I guess you didn't read my post all the way through did you LOL :aok
I was down low tryin to help a countryman against 3 of your countrymen in a 2 v 3 and was pulling up for another go at em and here you came in a high speed dive in your bright shiny PEE 51 from over the sea LOL
Anytime anyone comes at me HEAD ON straight and level I'm gonna give em some ammo!!! Hey don't want em to run out :D Hope they don't mind too much if the ammo is somewhat used :D
OH and hey I'm not real fond of the HO:D
In fact I prefer good acm to it but :D
So many use it and what are ya gonna do??? :D
So when you come at me nose on I will do my best even if I lose to take you with me in a HO :D
I was rather slow from pullin up seeing you comin in at high speed and the rolling and turning to avoiding your 1st pass.
I could not have caught you. About all I could do at the time was turn towards you and start tryin to get more speed.
Hey thought I was in some trouble from a high speed pony and was callin myself names for gettin caught low and slow again.
You got hit in our second merge and it was you that choose the approach when you had seperation and speed. I remember it very well!!!!
Wouldn't have if I hadn't gotten the cursing on private.
I was amazed it was you, as I had heard you were a fairly good stick, but from the way you flew that attack.
You reversed with a fairly flat turn and came right back at me! Straight and level, coalt, and nose on.
This when you had speed and could have looped back and easily had alt on me!!!!!!!!! LOL
And then You had the nerve to come on private, curse me, and then accuse me of ho'n you when you had the advantage and did what you did LMAO
As to NOT WANTING to get to know me????
GOOD!!!!!!! From the attitude you have displayed so far don't believe I wanna know you. :D
Might wanna reread my post as to why I didn't do anything about the cursing and perhaps think about it some. We were all abit frustrated back then.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
...Alt and E are the preferred when engaging a target. Everyone wants the alt advantage, pretty common sense suff, yet if they don't have it they scream alt monkey. I always saw that as like an oximoron, or catch 22...
...Take some time, get 10 squadies up to 30k and clear the cherry pickers out. When they get tired of losing their ars after all that time of climbing they'll come down...
Good stuff. Common Sense.
WWII pilots became Aces (and lived to tell about it) because they sought advantage, not fairness. 2 on 1's, cherrypicking, vulching... that's the stuff of real war - if you are doing it right. The other great point you illustrate is that you start with the highest enemy con and work down. Flyers who T&B on the deck when high enemy cons are in the vicinity are going to have a short shelf life.
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
Good stuff. Common Sense.
WWII pilots became Aces (and lived to tell about it) because they sought advantage, not fairness. 2 on 1's, cherrypicking, vulching... that's the stuff of real war - if you are doing it right. The other great point you illustrate is that you start with the highest enemy con and work down. Flyers who T&B on the deck when high enemy cons are in the vicinity are going to have a short shelf life.
Yup, exactly correct. I always use the top down approach to fighting. My typical sortie may start at 18k and end on the deck. By the time i fight my way down to the deck I've gotten four or five kills. The top down approach to air combat is fundamental. If you're low and slow with enemy lurking above you you're just a cherry begging and pleading to be picked like the ripe fruit you are...
Zazen
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If you're low and slow with enemy lurking above you you're just a cherry begging and pleading to be picked like the ripe fruit you are...
Some of us refer to this as the Venus Fly Trap Maneuver ... ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If you're low and slow with enemy lurking above you you're just a cherry begging and pleading to be picked like the ripe fruit you are...
Some of us refer to this as the Venus Fly Trap Maneuver ... ;)
Heh, ok, that's really cute, I'll let this one slide. ;)
Slappy
Zaz:aok
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Heh, ok, that's really cute, I'll let this one slide.
Why would you have to let it slide. If your any good at reversals you would understand that the alt advantage can always be countered by a smart pilot.
Alt is only an advantage against a noob. Wldthing has proven this many times in many of his films.
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Originally posted by mars01
Why would you have to let it slide. If your any good at reversals you would understand that the alt advantage can always be countered by a smart pilot.
Alt is only an advantage against a noob. Wldthing has proven this many times in many of his films.
This assumes tha the higher plane is piloted by someone who doesn't know how to use his altitude advantage.
Given pilots of equal skill, the guy with the altitude always has the advantage.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by mars01
Why would you have to let it slide. If your any good at reversals you would understand that the alt advantage can always be countered by a smart pilot.
Alt is only an advantage against a noob. Wldthing has proven this many times in many of his films.
I agree with that in most situations, but I have killed my fair share of great pilots from above and far more than my share of the not so great ones ;). If my aim and prediction of their manuevers is better than their ability to counter, they're dead. I can count the number of times on one hand I have attacked from above and gotten killed by my intended victim. The last time was by Shane in his Lgay7 about 2 months ago and it was close, I pinged the crap out of him in wild rolling scissors before I overshot and he got me. Before that was about 4 months ago by Greebo in his F6, again he forced the overshoot and got me in a snapshot. So, it took two guys who are the master of one plane they fly exclusively, and probably two of the top ten pilots overall in the game. Your average schmo has no chance.
Zazen
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Originally posted by mars01
Assuming two pilots with eqaul skill, your saying that the pilot without the altitude will always die?
The pilot without altitude would be doing well to force a stalemate. Unless the pilot with the altitude blows his E badly forcing angles too aggressively he should not die to the lower opponent. If the higher opponent knows how to use his E/Alt advantage being forced into a co-E/Co-Alt stalemate is about the best the lower enemy could expect. Obviously, with the plane match-ups we have it's never inconceivable the lower guy wins occassionally, but if I were a betting man (I am) , my money's on the guy with altitude 9 outta 10 times.
Zazen
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I guess what I am trying to say is Alt is an advantage but does not hold as much weight as everyone thinks.
A skilled pilot on the deck is just as dangerous as a skilled pilot with alt.
Zazen, I can say that I have had many a great pilot dive from above that couldn't get the shot and either moved on or sooner or later ended up co-alt and in fight not a cherry pick.
When you have two equally skilled pilots it comes down to the one who makes the first mistake rather than who has the alt advantage.
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Originally posted by mars01
I guess what I am trying to say is Alt is an advantage but does not hold as much weight as everyone thinks.
A skilled pilot on the deck is just as dangerous as a skilled pilot with alt.
Zazen, I can say that I have had many a great pilot dive from above that couldn't get the shot and either moved on or sooner or later ended up co-alt and in fight not a cherry pick.
Yup, as I said in the post above. That's about the best the lower guy can expect against someone good with his altitude. Equalizing the E states is a total victory for the lower guy.
Zazen
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You reversed with a fairly flat turn and came right back at me!
I really don't recollect this encounter but I was willing to take your version at face value as I'm quite capable fo PM'ing someone w/ vitriol. Later, when I've gotten control of myself, I'll humbly apologize for my rude behavior. I'm not excusing it, I am flawed as a human in many ways and a bad temper is one of them.
When I say" was willing" to take it at face value I refer to your above quote. I haven't used anything akin to a flat turn reversal since my early days in AW. If this encounter was in the past 2 or 3 months it could very well have been my nephew as I've recently let him use my login in the MA since my interest in what is really just a beta version of AH has waned for obvious reasons.
Don't let the above possibility give you pause in pursuing your threats to report to HTC. I'm not ducking my responsibilty for my account and I don't respond well to threats.
as I had heard you were a fairly good stick,
It's nice that someone out there thinks I'm a fairly good stick, my thanks to them.
I also saw your thread claiming you were upset and going to quite this sim.
I did quit. And as my threads said it was mainly over icons and CTD's. They have reduced the CTD's some and they fixed/changed the icons so I signed back up as I said I would.
Since your threat about reporting to HTC pretty much eliminates any chance this could be resolved amicably you should probably send get to it. If you have the inclination, please send me a copy of your screen shots to: stevenbailey@cox.net. Maybe it will jar my memory.
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relax Steve, I let about 4 or 5 of my nephews play with my account everytime they come to my place, and they are there almost every weekend, and then there's my DAD that I was tryin to teach(70yrs ol')
then I have dweebs calling me all kinds of names, like TIMID:aok
and yes Steve, you do drive planes well.
Mindless Furballin ain't for everyone.
But a good SA mixed with a good understanding when too attack and when to egress goes a long way in my book.
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Originally posted by mars01
I guess what I am trying to say is Alt is an advantage but does not hold as much weight as everyone thinks.
A skilled pilot on the deck is just as dangerous as a skilled pilot with alt.
Zazen, I can say that I have had many a great pilot dive from above that couldn't get the shot and either moved on or sooner or later ended up co-alt and in fight not a cherry pick.
When you have two equally skilled pilots it comes down to the one who makes the first mistake rather than who has the alt advantage.
I think what's being said is that alt gives the advantage of the merge. I've seen, and done myself, had the alt and E advantage and just brain farted it all away on some poor choice of ACM. I've also waited for someone to dive 20k on me just to move enough to irrtate them and miss, then I just stay out of the way on every pass until they blow it all, milk em dry.
Alt does not mean you win the fight, it means you have a higher advantage in the merge.
The merge is everything.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
The merge is everything.
Timing is everything.
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Originally posted by SLO
Timing is everything.
Wrong, but right,.... timing is part of the calulation of the merge. ;-)
~A
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Wrong, but right,.... timing is part of the calulation of the merge. ;-)
~A
there is no merge if the timing is right:p
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Originally posted by SLO
there is no merge if the timing is right:p
You're trying to play on words with me. Timing is part of the calulation of the merge, period. The merge IS the end product, based on timing, preferred angle of approach, Alt and E, double checked with SA.
You're *trying* to convince me, or put doubt in my head, that I am wrong. But I'm not, I know it, and you know it, why play the word game?
That or I'm having a sarastic arguement, which is a waste of my time. ;-)
Take timing out of the calulation of the merge and what do you have?,... probably you're ars handed to you.
Timing IS everything, bt the merge is the end product of the calulation of timing.
I guess you fly your way, I'll fly mine, what ever theory works best for you. I know what works best for me. ;-)
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... time to merge with a Guinness...
Slainte !
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Originally posted by Steve
I really don't recollect this encounter but I was willing to take your version at face value as I'm quite capable fo PM'ing someone w/ vitriol. Later, when I've gotten control of myself, I'll humbly apologize for my rude behavior. I'm not excusing it, I am flawed as a human in many ways and a bad temper is one of them.
When I say" was willing" to take it at face value I refer to your above quote. I haven't used anything akin to a flat turn reversal since my early days in AW. If this encounter was in the past 2 or 3 months it could very well have been my nephew as I've recently let him use my login in the MA since my interest in what is really just a beta version of AH has waned for obvious reasons.
Don't let the above possibility give you pause in pursuing your threats to report to HTC. I'm not ducking my responsibilty for my account and I don't respond well to threats.
It's nice that someone out there thinks I'm a fairly good stick, my thanks to them.
I did quit. And as my threads said it was mainly over icons and CTD's. They have reduced the CTD's some and they fixed/changed the icons so I signed back up as I said I would.
Since your threat about reporting to HTC pretty much eliminates any chance this could be resolved amicably you should probably send get to it. If you have the inclination, please send me a copy of your screen shots to: stevenbailey@cox.net. Maybe it will jar my memory.
Sir I have not sent it in, and I prefer to not send it in. You should be getting and email today or tomorrow per your request. As I said this was very shortly after AHII became required and tempers seemed to be running abit high. As to not responding to threats well, I understand as we are kindred spirits in that.
As I made some comments, on the public channel in AHI, about g00b one night, I found myself apoligizing, also on the public channel in AHI, the very next time g00b and i were online! Kept checking and waited for him to come on in fact. I had recorded our engagement and looked at it later and the way I was flying said it all :( g00b just simply out flew me on that occassion!!! g00b
I wish you well Sir and appreciate anyone that can and will take responsibility for their actions, words, and deeds. SIR
P.S. Should we meet in the skys of AHII I hope I win!!!!....... or at the very least make your palms sweat, and your heart beat just abit faster LOL :D
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OH No , not again.
POOR Rooks.
regards
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The pilot without altitude would be doing well to force a stalemate. Unless the pilot with the altitude blows his E badly forcing angles too aggressively he should not die to the lower opponent. If the higher opponent knows how to use his E/Alt advantage being forced into a co-E/Co-Alt stalemate is about the best the lower enemy could expect. Obviously, with the plane match-ups we have it's never inconceivable the lower guy wins occassionally, but if I were a betting man (I am) , my money's on the guy with altitude 9 outta 10 times.
Zazen
Absolutly alt is a huge advantage ... no question about it. But when flying the Venus Fly Trap, I can tell in 2 passes whether the other guy knows what he is doing or not, and 7 out of 10 times, the guy doesn't know what he is doing.
Nothing better than to make them miss on each pass and watching the frustration take over. Once that happens, the leaves begin to close and the next thing they know ... its dark ... hehe.
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Last night at 11:30 MA numbers were:
Bishop- 84
Knight- 84
Rook- 147
It's not just Sunday nights.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Last night at 11:30 MA numbers were:
Bishop- 84
Knight- 84
Rook- 147
It's not just Sunday nights.
SO what exactly are you asking. No one is going to limit or command which side you NEED to be on to keep things even. How would you like your squad to be on one side and because the sides aren't even you have to play against your squads side because you were re-directed to the opposite side?
Your asking everything to bend to YOUR liking, and it ain't going to happen.
Do you think in a real war the generals stopped sending troops in because the sides were off balance?
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No, just pointing out one side consistantly has an unfair numerical advantage. As for the solution, I don't have one.
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rooks are at it again, 180 players + 100 knits vs 120 bish...sigh.
oh look WWIIOL :D
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Originally posted by rpm371
No, just pointing out one side consistantly has an unfair numerical advantage. As for the solution, I don't have one.
The point I'm making is, the only solution is to burn one player to satisfy another. It's been a problem, for some, for WELL over a decade. The only solution I've ever heard, and watched it fail miserably is to segregate the players to country. You want to talk about a change that will kill a game like yesterday, try segregating.
I remember a year ago when rooks had their ars handed to them nightly. And this is my other point. It's a cycle, it has no time limit as to when it will change, but it will. These cycles usually last weeks – months. But sooner or later Bish or Rooks will be crying that Knights are over-whelming the MA, and vise versa. You just have to ride the cycle, and know it will also happen again.
There are a LOT of players (me for one) who prefer to play for the underdog side, just as there is those who only want to be on the winning team. The underdog players will migrate to the side with lower numbers, which will change the momentum. Then the winning team players will follow and that is when it becomes over whelming as it seems to be now. And again, the underdog players will again change teams, and the winning team players will follow. It doesn’t happen day to day, more like month to month or quarter to quarter. I’ve seen it last as long as a year, I’ve seen it last as long as a couple weeks, but it always changes. Again, you just have to ride the cycle out
There’s another way to look at it, which I learned to adopt in the same situation, it’s makes for a target rich environment. ;-). Take off from farther healthier bases, and rack up scalps.
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tis simple the rooks are outnumbered because you're friendly neighborhood 4 eyes is a Rook and they all want a piece of mah! they want their arses handed to them by a blind bat!
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Hordes suck, people that fly in hordes suck, games where people fly in hordes SUCK. This is all IMO of course.
Hored = Bored, for all sides involved, again IMO
Anton
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big maps
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I found a solution that is working until a better idea comes along.
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I'm a Knight and I have to say I really don't mind being outnumbered from time to time (we do outnumber others occassionaly). Most of the time we aren't outnumbered that badly, and often we hold our own despite bad odds.
On the other hand, lately, too many Knights have spent too much time fighting each other. I doubt they'd do this as much during happier times, and I can see how things can get frusterating, and people can start taking it out on each other. Unfortunately, this tends to create an atmosphere where people are even less likely to want to fly with us.
I'm not trying to play the Saint, as I've also indulged in a sarcastic comment or two, I'm just saying that if we all laughed about the situation instead of arguing over it, then our heads would be in the game more, we'd kill more, and have more fun.
I'm sure someone else must have said similar things, and so I apologize if I'm being redundant. I just didn't have the time to sort through 100+ messages ;)
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OMG you guys are still posting about this??
who cares anymore everyone can go rook for all i care! seems like the side to be on now,hey then you can all chase me all day and night long ill be on the knights, it will be easy to find me just look for the single green dot on your maps:rolleyes:
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Sir I have not sent it in, and I prefer to not send it in. You should be getting and email today or tomorrow per your request. As I said this was very shortly after AHII became required and tempers seemed to be running abit high. As to not responding to threats well, I understand as we are kindred spirits in that. As I made some comments, on the public channel in AHI, about g00b one night, I found myself apoligizing, also on the public channel in AHI, the very next time g00b and i were online! Kept checking and waited for him to come on in fact. I had recorded our engagement and looked at it later and the way I was flying said it all g00b just simply out flew me on that occassion!!! g00b
I wish you well Sir and appreciate anyone that can and will take responsibility for their actions, words, and deeds. SIR
P.S. Should we meet in the skys of AHII I hope I win!!!!....... or at the very least make your palms sweat, and your heart beat just abit faster LOL
Gosh Wrag, you really are a decent person. It's too bad we got off on the wrong foot. I'm sorry you received the unwarranted abuse. Whether it was me or my nephew is not important. No doubt you didn't deserve it, regardless of the source. Please consider this my sincere, humble, and complete apology.
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Numbers werent always fair in WWII were they?
Stop whining about rooks having more players. Besides, half of them are little newbie kids just looking for some excitement. It's not like they even have an understanding of the concept ACM.
Relax and go play your little game.
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Originally posted by wrag
I was on when the Rook numbers jumped way up and they hit A48 big time. Fought there and managed to rtb to A1 with 3 kills but could see from the numbers that A48 was gone.
Right aftert A48 got taken went up from A1 with a squaddie and jumped a bunch of Rook's coming outa A50 and fought with em all the way to A43. Got lucky and again landed 3 kills.
Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50. Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL. Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us. Think we managed to get 4 of em.
Ahhhhhhhh.... sweet sweet memories
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Originally posted by Steve
Gosh Wrag, you really are a decent person. It's too bad we got off on the wrong foot. I'm sorry you received the unwarranted abuse. Whether it was me or my nephew is not important. No doubt you didn't deserve it, regardless of the source. Please consider this my sincere, humble, and complete apology.
IMO, Wrag is a top-notch individual. He may whine from time to time (g00b Lgay7 encounter) and he may sing a bit too much on VOX , but he is one hell of a wingman n' squaddie! Good to see you two getting along now.
now if only someone could teach me to type, speel, and use grammmar correctly....
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Originally posted by Scrap
IMO, Wrag is a top-notch individual. He may whine from time to time (g00b Lgay7 encounter) and he may sing a bit too much on VOX , but he is one hell of a wingman n' squaddie! Good to see you two getting along now.
I feel that my squad is greatly blessed to have a pilot of the calibre, and character of Wrag. Smells a bit funny, but has a heart of gold. AND you do NOT want to get 'em singing on range chan. Bad 'nuff his squaddies have to hear it.
Yuppers, Wrag one of the good guys.
I was online w/ wrag during the "encounter" and I 'member it well. His recollection is pretty accurate. Wrag is not a face shooter. Never really was.
now Scotty5 on the other hand... (sigh whole other story there )
p.s. I'd be smackin' the snot out of my neph. if I found out he cursed someone while flyin' under my cpid. Just flat out rude.
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OK that's it you 2, I'm singin the booger song ON LOCAL/RANGE channel about WMScrap and WMLute (aka flyingaround) !!! LOL (thanks for the compliments guys)
Steve ... I accepted your 1st one in your earlier reply. 2nd one above is most welcome as well but unnecassary Sir.
Sincerely hope there are no hard feelings between us, or me and your nephew.
Hope we all find allot of enjoyment in AH.
(I'm still gonna sing the booger song about one of my squadies some day ON THE RANGE/LOCAL channel!!!!! :D Muhahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa )
Maybe WMSpin for stealin my kills! (don't really care but don't tell WMSpin!!!! or I can't get away with singin the booger song about him :D )
hmmm hey! channel 200 has VOX doesn't it????? muhahahahahahahahahahahahhaaa aaaaa
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160 rooks, 160 knits, 100 bish
bases flashing on rook/knit front 2
bases flashing on rook/bish front 6
bases flashing on bish/knit front 4
hmmmmmmm:o
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Originally posted by Overlag
160 rooks, 160 knits, 100 bish
bases flashing on rook/knit front 2
bases flashing on rook/bish front 6
bases flashing on bish/knit front 4
hmmmmmmm:o
What does the number of bases flashing have to do with anything? There could be 100 people fighting over those 2 bases and 10 milkrunners making the others flash.
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:p
at least 262s was cheap ;)
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hmmm hey! channel 200 has VOX doesn't it????? muhahahahahahahahahahahahhaaa aaaaa [/B]
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
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Bishes have had massive number advantage for more than 2 years, cant understand why they are crying so much now.
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Originally posted by GODO
Bishes have had massive number advantage for more than 2 years, cant understand why they are crying so much now.
they did?
i dunno i was knight when it was the underdog, and now im bish......
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Originally posted by Overlag
they did?
i dunno i was knight when it was the underdog, and now im bish......
Well....obviously, the Bish odds problem has been found!!! :)
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Does anyone else think that having three sides tends to naturally even out lopsided numbers? I know it's not a perfect or exact science but when one team outnumbers the others greatly, then don't the two lesser tend to gravitate towards the one with more players?
Back in the days of old... sides used to make a verbal truce and stop aggression towards one side in order to concentrate on the other front. (Yes... the truces were always violated without exception but milkrunning is about as exciting as flying in the practice arena by yourself.)
-Buzzz
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we had one a bit sunday, although knits still hit us......most of them was clever though. But then the 68th squad started massive missions to undefended bases, and the whole "hold rooks down" idea flew out the window......
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Originally posted by Buzzz
Does anyone else think that having three sides tends to naturally even out lopsided numbers? I know it's not a perfect or exact science but when one team outnumbers the others greatly, then don't the two lesser tend to gravitate towards the one with more players?
Back in the days of old... sides used to make a verbal truce and stop aggression towards one side in order to concentrate on the other front. (Yes... the truces were always violated without exception but milkrunning is about as exciting as flying in the practice arena by yourself.)
-Buzzz
Generally speaking this is true.
But that isnt the reality in the MA.
At the beginning you will see this happen. But as the map get old the Second place country will actually join the hoard country to try and put an end to the map. This has been played out for the 2 years i have played AH. Its more so these days when a country outnumbers the other by 60+ players.