Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on July 26, 2004, 08:17:25 AM
-
So far in the history of AH, many problems have been pointed out as killing game play due to exploitation of the system - and thus, it was fixed.
There were "car-bombers" - taking off in bombers, and detonating bombs while on the runway. This was fixed. There was the "instant AA platform" - people spawning bombers on the runway to use it as AA platform. This was fixed. Individual planes destroying fuel objetcs to instantly suffocate the entire front - this was fixed.
...
Now it seems to me, the only thing left which really should be looked into is the "divebombing heavy bombers".
Low level bomb drops itself is not necessarily a problem, as long as it is executed in the proper way. If someone could actually manage to slip in with a formation of bombers at low altitudes, and properly drop bombs and damage stuff, that is an admirable feat.
However, when bombers come in low, starts swerving around and diving about, and sprays its entire bomb load all over the place with no regards to proper flight planning, insertion, calibration, drop, and escape procedures... that's something entirely different from a properly executed low-level bombing attack. It's 'gaming the game' - as in exploitation of the system. The person who does that has no regards to learning or practicing the proper bombing techniques.
....
Not only does it give the real dedicated bomber folk a bad name, but it also makes fools out of the people who actually practiced hard to execute bombing attacks.
I enjoy bombing and take pride in the precision of my work. It took me a lot of time to practice and perfect the calibration process, and also years of experience is what has taught me how to plan a flight path which I can achieve my goal and come back alive at the same time.
However, the people who spray bombs like confetti with the bomber formations achieve better results with immediate effects, despite the fact that they never really practiced anything.
If I am to kill a CV with a formation of buffs, I have to take off at least 30 miles away, take time to gain alt, plan a course, receive info updates on whereabouts, and carefully drop bombs in the exact spot to kill it. Whereas if a typical dweeb wants to kill a CV he will just climb to about 5k, and go dive bombing into the CV.
Stupidity, recklessness, and disregard towards personal safety, pays off higher dividends than skill, practice, experience, and caution.
This should be stopped.
Bombers, is not some cheap trick dweeb platform for n00bs.
Bombing, is not a simple dweeb-run method to take care of ground obejcts or CVs.
-
In regards to specific methods to cure the "dive bombing buff formations", I present the following suggestions which I think should have considerable effect.
1. Bombs will be dropped only when in a bombardier's position(F6)
The bombardier takes total control of the buff in real life. A steady bomb run is always required, which is why the bombardier moves the plane carefully until the crosshairs come in target. Dropping bombs from external views should be stopped.
F3 external view is a means to compensate for the lack of multiple crewmen, not some cheap view point which a person can abuse to drop bombs in heavy bombers.
Prohibiting bomb drops outside the bombardier's postion in level buffs, will stop people from abusing F3 external views.
2. Bombs will not be dropped, when climb/decent guage is over +/- 500 ft.
Speaks for itself. A bomber must be level. If it's climbing/descending over 500ft per minute the bombs will refuse to drop.
3. Above applies to the following bombers - Boston3, Lancaster3, B-17, B-26
The heavy bombers, with internal payload that is to be delivered through the bomb bay, equipped with a bomb sight, will be under such restrictions.
4. Above will apply to the Ju88A with its internal ordnance
External ordnance on the Ju88, should be free of such restrictions, as the Ju88 was both a dive bomber and a level bomber.
5. Above will not apply to Ar234
Ar234s were known to be able to use its special bombsight to execute low-angle dive bomb runs.
-
Okay, good points with a request made many times, and while horizontal bombing is being fixed, need to also stop C-47s from ejecting paratroopers in vertical pullups like toss bombing.
-
Kweassa do you want to remove bomber pilots completly from the game?
If you havent noticed that there are serious bugs with bombers at the moment stoping people from flying them.
Starters.
The first bug, is that when the tail gunner in any bommer is killed it is carried accross to every other drone in the formation. THis means if your tail gunner dies, your join player will not be able to use his because yours has just died. The only way around this bug, is to eject from the damage tail gunner, your bomber and spawn in your drone bomber. But this gives the enemy some time to kill you and your bombers anyway.
Next.
B26s tail gunner do not die! yes, they dont die. Dont agree with me, up one and get one of your squad mates to shot at the tail gunner, he wont go down.
Historicaly speaking, that lancs did dive bomb in some missions with high suxcess rates. I dont know the source but it was used by the raaf acouple of times.
I dont think its gaming the game, a fighter pilot could allways up and do the same thing.
The truth of the matter is that, level bombing is a very fast way of transporting you back to the tower. You just get alot of cons on your six in a matter of seconds. Dont trust me on this, up a lanc formation and fly over a base with sufficient allies air power. People break off from there dogfight and come right after the bombers. For the easy kill.
Well, i am not one to argue. Just pointing out mistakes in your suggestions.
instead how about having radio controled bombs, they used them with great suxcess with nocking out bridges.
-
btw why do bomber pilots need to pratice for months and months to be very effective in bombers.
If a dweeb can achieve the same goal of a pro in a matter of minutes dive bombing a base isnt he being more effective and time management skills are better?
Hes taking the same game functions and applying them in a different way, i see nothing wrong with that.
Why should only elite pilots who have trained for months to be very accurate in bombers get any re-ward? isnt killing the target the greatest re-ward you can get, even through you use the same game restrictions as everyone else.
My point, it seems like your on a power trip, and need to relax and see aces high 2 as a game not some flight sim.
-
I would think the dedicated buff pilots, and I know there are some of you out there, would welcome changes to the system to eliminate or limit dive bombing heavy bombers. It would make the skills of the buff fan more in demand. Same reason I would feel if I worked really hard to be able to hit somthing with a heavy only to have the precision sight turned on for a scenario because the other system is too hard.
Becoming a better fighter pilot requires work and practice, becoming a better bomber pilot should illicit the same response.
Then again it is a game and everyone pays their own $15 to play as they will.
-
Great presentation Kweassa!
You identified a percieved flaw in the current gameplay, cited precident for previous "fixes" for the sake of gameplay, and presented possible fixes for the current topic.
I really enjoy level bombing, and absolutely love the Bombsite Calibration and everything that was added to bombing to make it a challenging aspect of gameplay. I guess not everyone was up to the challenge.
-Sik
-
Originally posted by F1Bomber
btw why do bomber pilots need to pratice for months and months to be very effective in bombers.
You can learn to calibrate, perfectly, in a single evening and there isn't even wind in AH2 to offer a challenge at higher altitudes. People who take a month aren't doing it properly.. it shouldn't even take an hour.
The other bomber issues will be addressed I'm sure, likely the graphical/disco issues some people are having are just taking precedence right now (and rightfully so). Some of the same bomber issues were in AH1 and were corrected (damage transfer)
Jabo vs Bomber, Apple vs Orange, 2-2,500lb's of ord vs 42,000lbs. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why people suicide bombers like jabo planes.
-
Originally posted by Halo
Okay, good points with a request made many times, and while horizontal bombing is being fixed, need to also stop C-47s from ejecting paratroopers in vertical pullups like toss bombing.
Nooooo!!!! I love the vertical or inverted troop drops.
-
Kweassa do you want to remove bomber pilots completly from the game?
Yes. If the only sort of "bomber pilots" around is those sort of dweebs, then we certainly don't need any of them.
If you havent noticed that there are serious bugs with bombers at the moment stoping people from flying them.
None of the two bugs you've presented is 'serious' nor relevant of this matter.
Historicaly speaking, that lancs did dive bomb in some missions with high suxcess rates. I dont know the source but it was used by the raaf acouple of times.
Need a proof. Were those sort of missions anything common/effective enough to consider it as a normal, represantative method of bombing for the particular aircraft we have in AH?
I think not.
I dont think its gaming the game, a fighter pilot could allways up and do the same thing.
Except an ordnance load a fighter pilot carries, is nothing like what bomber formations carry. Those two are not the same.
The truth of the matter is that, level bombing is a very fast way of transporting you back to the tower. You just get alot of cons on your six in a matter of seconds. Dont trust me on this, up a lanc formation and fly over a base with sufficient allies air power. People break off from there dogfight and come right after the bombers. For the easy kill.
Then how come I bomb stuff at hostile territory without escort fighters and come back alive all the time?
....
If a dweeb can achieve the same goal of a pro in a matter of minutes dive bombing a base isnt he being more effective and time management skills are better?
No.
He's merely using a different CATEGORY of aircraft, to do a different METHOD of attack run. I'd up fighters and go precision strike jabo runs if 2000lbs ord. can do me the job.
However, if I want FHs, SBs, towns, industrial facilities, cities and HQ out of the picture, then I take a bomber, and go bombing.
Hes taking the same game functions and applying them in a different way, i see nothing wrong with that.
Like the different way the car-bombers used to do? Or like the way how people spawned bombers on the ground as AA platforms?
The 'different way' in those cases, was proved be an abusement, which consequentially got the specific action banned from the game.
I'm expecting the same with this issue - as it is more dweebey then any other previous issues addressed by HTC.
-
Okay, good points with a request made many times, and while horizontal bombing is being fixed, need to also stop C-47s from ejecting paratroopers in vertical pullups like toss bombing.
I don't know if those sort of goon drops are threatening the gameplay in anyway, but to follow the basic principle behind my suggestion I'd agree.
It would certainly take more careful goon runs to do the job.
-
Yes. If the only sort of "bomber pilots" around is those sort of dweebs, then we certainly don't need any of them.
Well can you start paying my $15 a month, and all the other pilots who quit because of this un-needed modification of the bombers.
Need a proof. Were those sort of missions anything common/effective enough to consider it as a normal, represantative method of bombing for the particular aircraft we have in AH?
So your saying that it wasnt normal for bomber pilots but a select threw so it shouldnt be included in the game, but removed?
Except an ordnance load a fighter pilot carries, is nothing like what bomber formations carry. Those two are not the same.
Once a fighter has droped his load he can vulch the field or play a bigger role in destorying smaller targets. Completly different considering that the bomber is mostly defenseless after the drop and have to make the trip back.
No.
He's merely using a different CATEGORY of aircraft, to do a different METHOD of attack run. I'd up fighters and go precision strike jabo runs if 2000lbs ord. can do me the job.
However, if I want FHs, SBs, towns, industrial facilities, cities and HQ out of the picture, then I take a bomber, and go bombing.
Hes using the same category of aircraft just using it more effectivly than you to complete the goal.
Like the different way the car-bombers used to do? Or like the way how people spawned bombers on the ground as AA platforms?
Those issue were resolved becase they removed the possibility of capturing a field. Its completly different if the bomber takes time to get alt and in and sinc a cv by using div bomb tatics.
One last note.
If fields or any other strat targets dont have defense over the field, or cv. And they allow a bomber pilot who dive bombers to apprach then sinc the cv, because they were too lazy then they deserve what they get. I dont see the point in forcing bomber pilots to play a set role in the game only being allowed to level bomb.
-
I like these points and ideas.
As for saying bombers are completely useless after a bomb run, then why not just get rid of them?
People enjoy the experience of being in a bomber formation and executing bomb attacks from high alt, just like in WWII.
Theres no real point in using a bomber like a Jabo, they're not fast, manueverable, and practically vulnerable at low altitude..
Come to think of it,...I have only seen something like that no more than a few times. Whenever I see a bomber, its high alt and on a course, not diving.
There are more people that fly bombers like they should than you think. Just because some people turn this into an Crimson Skies game for themselves doesn't mean everyone should suffer and doesn't mean they can't learn how to fly the bomber the RIGHT way.
-
Originally posted by F1Bomber
Well can you start paying my $15 a month, and all the other pilots who quit because of this un-needed modification of the bombers
F1bomber its my 15$ so i want all aircraft unperk i want to fly my tempest all the time its my 15$ WHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
-
Well can you start paying my $15 a month, and all the other pilots who quit because of this un-needed modification of the bombers.
Or you can try to become a better bomber pilot, no?
So your saying that it wasnt normal for bomber pilots but a select threw so it shouldnt be included in the game, but removed?
No. I'm saying your evidence is flimsy.
Too weak to support any kind of gameplay action that exploits heavy, four-engined bomber platforms as being used as angled dive bombers.
Once a fighter has droped his load he can vulch the field or play a bigger role in destorying smaller targets. Completly different considering that the bomber is mostly defenseless after the drop and have to make the trip back.
So? That's what a bomber is.
What did you think it was when someone signed on as a bomber pilot? Instant action all around?
Or is your definition of "fun bombing" a intentional one-way trip that smashes your plane, formation, and its entire payload against defensive wall of enemy fighters? (Sounds like kamikaze run to me.)
Hes using the same category of aircraft just using it more effectivly than you to complete the goal.
Wrong.
He's exploiting a fault in the system which cannot recreate reality to its fullest. Thus, problems considering reality emerge, as people dig out all kinds of weird and unexpected methods that would never have taken place in real life.
Most of the times the consequences are not too large. However, when a tard does something like that with formations of bombers that carry tens of thousands of pounds of bombs - it becomes a problem.
Those issue were resolved becase they removed the possibility of capturing a field. Its completly different if the bomber takes time to get alt and in and sinc a cv by using div bomb tatics.
Nope. Nothing's different.
When it was set up that way, carbombing and AA buffing was completely "legit" method of field defense in everyway, just in the same way as you imply the divebombing buffs are legit currently.
But guess what - it was changed. Even when field capture dynamics changed, it didn't come back.
Such exploitation in the game's limited ability to portray reality, is in essence a sort of a "bug" - a problem which the developers have to constantly try to eliminate, and keep under control.
One last note.
If fields or any other strat targets dont have defense over the field, or cv. And they allow a bomber pilot who dive bombers to apprach then sinc the cv, because they were too lazy then they deserve what they get. I dont see the point in forcing bomber pilots to play a set role in the game only being allowed to level bomb.
The ability to dive bomb in buffs should never have been there in the first place. They're exploting a situation which was not possible in real life.
As much as an unprotected CV deserves to die, a lazy, dweeby tard who exploits what the game has to offer, should never have place in the game in the first place.
If somebody quits because the system forces them to do the right thing, then they should quit and go away, instead of clogging this game bandwidth with all their lameness.
The less of those tards around the better I say.
-
Bombers did do slight dive bombing, but none of this vertical crap we have here. There shoud be a regulation. Formations should not be able to release bombs while in a steep dive, and single bombers should be able to do slight dives.
-
Not going to bother arguing or discussing this topic anymore.
I didnt provide evidence because it wasnt required. The main point i was trying to make was that, you make out that because the pratice of div bombing in real life was not normal, then it shouldnt be in the game. It was done, but not by the large % of bomber pilots.
Hell, most of the time bomber pilots missted completly the targets in real life and they had months of training before hand.
In regards of fun, people have different ideas of what fun is within this game. In this regards i think people would find div bombing fun in bombers, but hell i am not complaining or suggesting fixes to stop peoples fun.
Dont assume i dive bomb lancs or b17s, there are times when it is required in game because of the hords around the bases, to enable your side to disable the enemy field.
Wrong.
He's exploiting a fault in the system which cannot recreate reality to its fullest. Thus, problems considering reality emerge, as people dig out all kinds of weird and unexpected methods that would never have taken place in real life.
Most of the times the consequences are not too large. However, when a tard does something like that with formations of bombers that carry tens of thousands of pounds of bombs - it becomes a problem.
I am sorry to say that hes using the current game features in the programing to achieve his goal. Btw this isnt reality its a game, people play online for fun, if you want a true flight simulator try il2 or combat flight sim.
Btw, you say that would neve have taken place in real life? Well in real life fighter pilots and bomber pilots did kamikaze only problem this was a one way trip.
The ability to dive bomb in buffs should never have been there in the first place. They're exploting a situation which was not possible in real life.
As much as an unprotected CV deserves to die, a lazy, dweeby tard who exploits what the game has to offer, should never have place in the game in the first place.
If somebody quits because the system forces them to do the right thing, then they should quit and go away, instead of clogging this game bandwidth with all their lameness.
The less of those tards around the better I say.
So why did hitech code it in then? They're not exploting a situation, they are using a tatic used by unique missions in wwii to achieve there goals.
one last thing, i have hit into people who say things like, "if they dont play by this way then they shouldnt be in the game". They pay there monthly subscription like everyone else, and i think it would be a bad move to remove customers because they are play a game incorrectly to your game you play.
No hard feelings. Just adding another person perspective on the situation that being completly one side discussion.
Well, I havent had a problem with div bombing lancs in this game, hell i have been around for a long time. I find that you can easy kill them by uping a 110, but i think thats too hard for some people to understand.
-
Have fun, hope to see you in the skys.
Kweassa
-
Hitech Definition
Dolt: Someone who doesn't get it (and probably never will.)
I don't know if F1Bomber is a tard but he's probably a dweeb and definetly a Dolt. :rolleyes:
Slight disagreement with you Kweassa but essentially the same thing.
Four engine bombers should not be able to dive bomb period.
Any bombers using the formation option should not be able to dive bomb.
Two engine bombers like the Ju88, B26, Boston/A20 etc should be capable of dive-bombing IF without formations. Ki-67 and new bombers might be a problem for this one though.
Your rate of decent shouldn't matter if releasing from the bombsight. Ever run out of fuel short of the target... you might get lucky. ;)
edit for spelling
-
Having started to take bombing quite seriously I have a question...
Why is entering a slight dive in a b26 (formation or no) considered a dweeb tactic?
Providing I'm not suiciding and what I'm doing obeys the laws of physics... i.e. not dropping bombs in a vertical dive or climb ... isn't that an tactical innovation? So while I may be decending on a target my horizontal movement remains as close to neutral as possible...none of this flip-flopping nonsense.
I don't agree with F1bomber. I see Kwessa's point though.
I would much rather see level bombing enforced somehow than allow dive-bombing b17s. I can accept a restriction on the b26 providing I can still use light and medium bombers to make dive bombing runs.
(Although for historical flavour it should be noted that Canadian Lancaster Crews would (or did on one occasion) release their bombs over a target (Hamburg I believe) and then proceed to dive and strafe German AAA positions.) :rofl So there's a precident for diving attacks in bombers...just not with a full bomb load.
-
I do agree with Adogg here, and have no problem with bombers dropping in a shallow dive, especially the likes of the B-26.
To my mind it was more a question of AOA.
-Sik
-
Originally posted by Sikboy
I do agree with Adogg here, and have no problem with bombers dropping in a shallow dive, especially the likes of the B-26.
This was SOP for B-26s flying out of Port Moresby in 1942.
- oldman
-
I agree 26's, 20's and the like should be able to do some diving bomb runs.
but 17''s and Lancs going into steep dives on bombing runs are nothing short of absurd And am in full agreement with
KWEASSA
My feeling is anytime you switch to the bombsight on the 4 engine bombers the plane should automatically stay on auto level. the bombadier should only be able to control left and right axis.
The pilot should not be able to drop bombs. bombs should only be able to be dropped form the bombadiers position..
And this is comming from someone who totally sucks at bombers.
Hell Im lucky when I drop if my bombs land in the same sector
-
I belive we are debating a none issue here, just how steap of a dive do you belive these bombers do?
HiTech
-
45 degree's or better. I've seen them get near verticle a few times. I'm with Kwea on this one. VH's seem to be the target of choice. Next is CV's.
-
OK, HT, do you have a film viewer that works? I have film of a formation of B17's making a verticle dive bomb attack on C40. Guy rolled it over, pulled it verticle(down) dropped his load, lost 2 drones, sank CV and eggressed. Whata frickin pisser. It wouldna been so bad if we hadn't lost the port 30 seconds before hand.
-
Originally posted by hitech
I belive we are debating a none issue here, just how steap of a dive do you belive these bombers do?
HiTech
I've seen 17's dive on a base's and carriers at a 45 degree angle on several occasions
-
Just today I've seen three~four people upping B-26 formations at the same time to divebomb and destroy a CV I was protecting.
Even though people love to say that bombers are easy kills, actually it is not, for the most of the average people. It is a dangerous target, not to mention very tough. Sometimes it takes some 3~4 good shots to down a single buff with 5" guns. For most of the pilots, it takes 2~3 people working in coordination to kill all three buffs without any serious damage.
So, if three people each up B-26 formations that's nine bombers to kill - needing at least 6~10 people to completely get rid of them in time before it reaches its kamikaze destination to the CV. Since the radar range is pretty short, usually when we detect a group of such suicidal bombers ib we have to stop them within about 7~10 miles - which by the time we group up to try and halt them the buffs are barging in at speeds over 300mph.
Now, if they were coming in the proper manner, they'd be easier to stop - how can it not be easier? A buff coming in a bombrun at only 6~7k alt is dead meat. Anybody flying buffs in the proper manner, hitting stuff, and seeking to get out alive, should come in at least at 10k or more. If they don't abide that proper procedures they're bound to be shot down, and they should be shot down. They're doing it in the wrong way.
But ofcourse, since the wrong way still yields same results, but takes less time to do it, and since they've got no regards to surival and just want to get the job done, they come barging in when they see the CV. A shallow dive of 10~30 degrees angle, speeding up easily higher than 300mph(if anybody has experience in flying scenarios they would know that bombers going at 300mph, isn't really easy to catch up with and shoot down).
And at the right moment, with a certain delay and salvo settings they pull up as they drop the bombs, scattering thousands of pounds of ordnance all over the place like cluster bombs.
And after the pass, they get shot down immediately - but hey, the CV's still down.
If they've actually gathered 3 people to fly a tight pack formation of 9 bombers to kill a CV, fly it up high at 10~11k, and execute a bombing run, then that's a truly admirable feat. If they do that at 5k in a blazing kamikaze run then it's gaming the game. It destroys the CV, and instantly takes away the ability to take off in planes. Essentially its the same thing as the old fuel porking mindset, except it's done at a bigger scale.
Now if that was possible and so effective, wouldn't they have done that in real life?
Ofcourse, in real life stressing the bomber into such speeds would itself be very dangerous. There were crewmen inside the bombers who wanted to live through it to see another day. There were enormous amount of ackfire to face, and if they wanted to bomb something in that manner they'd have used divebombers and fighter bombers, not level bombers.
They're misusing the buffs, exploiting its ability to carry large ordnance loads so THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE TROUBLE OF GOING THROUGH ORGANIZNG A PROPER CV STRIKE MISSION, OR TAKING UP BUFFS TO DO A PROPER BOMBING RUN. Basically its a lazy slacker mentality, finding easy exploiting alternatives to what needs to be done properly.
If the CV went down because we couldn't come up with proper countermeasures to their proper attacks we'd have nothing to complain about - and that's why I don't complain about individual fighter bombers coming in high to dive into CVs(even if they kill themselves in the process). However, if we're put up against something highly unlikely in real life, putting up countermeasures to stop it is more difficult than it should be. While the perpetrator of it all risks just three deaths, he will be rewarded in his lazy efforts by taking away the ability to up planes entirely.
People say killing CVs is easy. Oh it's easy, if you do it the dweebey way. Doing it in the right way is much harder. But that's how it should be. The wrong way should not be awarded with such glorious results - the game should reward players with success, who take the time to practice it all and do it right, and discourage those who fly it in the wrong way. But instead it discourages people who try it to do the right way, makes fools out of them, while rewarding the dweebs with success.
In the fuel porking matter, HTC countered it wisely by limiting fuel porkage to 75%, so no one suicidal dweeb can ruin the fight. Now, they can suicide themselves to kill barracks or radar, but that doesn't stop the fight itself. Also, they can do the same thing against FHs, but it takes concentrated effort to kill all FHs, unlike the fuel bunkers of the past.
It's that same kind of wisdom I would like to see, in this matter concerning people using huge and maginificent level bombers as suicidal ground attack planes.
Bombers should be bombers. Not an oversized jabo wannabe.
-
number one on my list: death should mean something.........
suicides wouldnt happen then...unless they are from japan........
-
Oh ENOUGH with the damn suicide claims already!
Old whine and mostly lame claim
Do some people suicide? YES
Is it as widespread and rampant as SOME people make it out to be over and over and over again? NO
Most people do NOT suicide intentionally. These mostly bogus claims of suiciders 95% of the time are the result of incorrect perception then reality.
there are any number of reasons why an attacking plane might blow up or crash into the ground. including but not exclusive to damage by invisable ack and manned ack to the control sufaces, Dropping too low and being blown up by the explosion of your own bombs, Inexperiance of a particular plane or just plain newbie inexperiance. Pilot error such as comming in using too sttep of a dive, forgetting to chop your throttle or chopping throttle too late.
these are all things that to the outside observer might LOOK like a suicider but isnt
All of which I have done and some things I still do from time to time.
For example Last night being the most recent 3 times I was comming in to hit a target. Once I dropped too low and at a bad angle and was too close to the explosion of my own bomb, and Twice I was killed by manned ack right right as I was hitting my target.
the night before I was trying out a plane I wasnt used to and it compressed when I didnt expect it to and crashed into my target just as I was dropping on it.
And on yet another occasion feild ack took out my elevators while in my dive
I assure you that none of these was an intentional suicide.
Now to anyone that was defending the base and saw it
I can see how it might be perceived as an intentional suicide. but it woud be an incorrect perception as the reality of the matter was quite diferent
But its easier to whine about suiciders. Give ya's something to snivel about. And its SOOO much easier then putting forth any kind of real effort to defend your bases.
And if you say it often enough people actually start to beleive it reguardless of how untrue it is. And the hope is that if it gets whined about enough HTC will beleive it too and do something about it cause these guys arent playing the game YOUR way And everyone knows that everyone insists everyone else play the game THEIR way Be they furballer or strat player. And if they dont they're a "dweeb"
Are there suiciders? Yea I think so. but they are by FAR the exeption and not the norm.
I've flown hundreds of flights in the last few years and been on many many missions. and not once have I been in a flight or have heard anyone suicide intentionally. when they die it is usually for one of the reasons above or from people that actually do Something to stop them well before they reach target
but not from intentional suicide.
Now the Divebombing 17s and LancsI admit are rediculous. Certainly moreso then the 26's which were capable and sometimes used in that manner
But this idea of widespread suiciders is a claim that is mostly and probably 95% BS or based in incorrect perception then in anything that even closely resembles any kind of reality.
-
I think we all have seen movies of planes attacking boats in the pacific. Make the ack as dence as that around a cv group and the problem should become smaller.
As far as suicides, last night I saw a 109 about 1k below me. I lowered the nose and saw that he went into a dive over a field (turned out the field was not friendly, lol). I am thinking, this dweeb is going to compress or rip his wings off so I dive behind him. I close at about 800 and thinking that this dweeb is going to suicide, I beter get him fast. Then the plane starts shaking, I pull back on the stick nothing happens. The 109 puls out of the dive and I continue to the ground realising that I was in a p38 :mad:
After the explosion the the text said, 'there goes another suicide dweeb'. I guess I earned it, lol
-
Originally posted by hitech
I belive we are debating a none issue here, just how steap of a dive do you belive these bombers do?
HiTech
Most dives I’ve seen with formations appeared to be around 45 degrees on my front end. Occasionally the lead will auger but often both drones pop in the pull-up / extend as the lead turns sharply to come back and strafe the field
It's pretty simple really, guys who spend hours in bombers hate it when some no skill dweeb can accomplish the same thing in 1/3rd the time.
What would happen if entire squads started using B-17s and Lancs to dive bomb fields and towns? It’s quick with 25% fuel and far more effective then the endless jabo runs. I have no doubt it would make a good diversion flight on squad night just for the irritation factor and I've been surprised we haven’t seen them used that way. I just couldn't bring myself to suggest it on squad night.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
[...]
1. Bombs will be dropped only when in a bombardier's position(F6)
The bombardier takes total control of the buff in real life. A steady bomb run is always required, which is why the bombardier moves the plane carefully until the crosshairs come in target. Dropping bombs from external views should be stopped.
[...]
As a supplement I suggest an autolevel-autospeed function. As far as I understand it was the pilot's duty to keep the right speed during bomb run.
This means:
Speed during calibration is stored. As soon as you go back to the bombsight near target the speed is adjusted back. Once the speed is correct the bombardier has a "green light".
-
I agree 100% with Kweassa here. People are gaming the game's game play.
Should we want to ruin 1 guys b17 jabbo fun for pi$$ing off 30 + other players ($15). 30 other guys who play the GAME as it should be.
Perhaps htc should code in the following to let b17's jabbo. The lead 17 should fly through a hanger while the drones pass above. The lead plane then picks up smart bombs if he does it again he picks up invunerable to ack pass. 3rd he gets cloaking device 4th he gets....hold on a sec let me get a grip. Forgot what Game we're playing :rofl
-
LOL Lynx. :)
Yeah, I agree with Kweassa.
But no need to bring in questions of dweebery, the criteria is simpler. If the physical modeling has limitations that allow buff-diving in the game when it wasn't physically possible in real life, then a flight-angle limitation should be imposed on bomb drops from internal bays.
The issue of suicide/death is orthogonal (and will probably never be solved).
-
Hey I miss Blood Dragons and crewing up a B17 to go punish fighters upping from a feild. Had some of my best fun in AW with my squad crewing a B17 for a suicide fighter killing run.:D
Don't any of you remember bouncing a buff all alone you and it just to find it was fully manned with bored fighter jocks at the guns? A big squad in AH could man all the guns on a buff run and not be bothered by fighters. Then you could do your level bombing with precision calibration and get complained about in threads like this asking to go back to the easy to kill buff days.
While you are at it ask HTC to let buffs kill runways to close feilds. At least it takes less than an hour to get over the IP. Think if you had to freeze your nads for 8 hours.:)
I can't wait until AH ver. 30,000.1.1 with the Holo-Deck support for that being there for real immersion. Ya know with the choice of real or simulated crashes and explosions.:aok