Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gijeff on June 07, 2001, 11:36:00 AM
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Salute Gents,
Having been a closed beta tester for a short time with WW2OL I can give first impressions now that it is out without violating my NDA. I have made oblique comments about it over the last few days but this will be a bit more detailed.
If you are thinking of quitting AH for WW2OL.......well that might be a bit premature. I have been up in planes, in tanks, and on the ground as a trooper, and while the game has some aspects AH lacks, it's planeset is limited and it is largely unfinished. I, for one, will wait and see how it develops before making any kind of jump.
The tanks are VERY realistic, they really went the whole nine yards on that aspect of the game. I used to drive and gun tanks when I was in the army and they got the peculiar rolling, gliding ride of a tank down pat. The gunnery in tanks is more realistic than the AH model, (too much bullet drop in AH imho) but AH is primarily an air combat game, so I can see why, since that is not the focus of the game. The control system of the tanks is not too bad, but there is no provision for steering the tank from the gunner position using rudder like AH has.
The ability to be a trooper is nifty, and the gun sights are realistic, but the control system for walking is all keyboard/mouse based with little joystick input. Hopefully they will make it easier to use a joystick for these features.
Now for the planes...There is no radar so finding a fight is not terribly easy, you basically have to ask where air cons are. The rolling cockpit map is a bit restricted (narrow field of view), either you know the map by road configuration, or you fly along till you fly past something with a name on it to find your position. I found it frustrating. The icon system is interesting, a circle appears, partial for distant targets, complete for closer ones, then it changes color to signify nationality as it gets closer, finally it will tell you what type of aircraft it is at visual ranges.
As to the flight model, the holy grail of combat sims... It is as yet unfinished and it shows. All the planes refuse to bleed "E". Think of every plane in WW2OL as an AH Niki, with varying degrees of turn rate proportional to their type. All the planes can do loops indefinitely and actualy GAIN altitude. Gunnery in the planes is challenging but not as difficult as AH, with much less bullet drop modeled. Damage models in the planes are a bit unfinished as well, the spit can't really hurt the 109 very easily, where the 109 can seriously damage a spit with the cannon. There are only four planes in the current release, Spitfire Mk1 (all 303's), the Hawk 75 (french thingie I never heard of before), 109F4, and stuka.
Connection issues and playability...Connections are sporadic to some extent, especially since the release. I haven't been able to get into the game since it's release, and I am on cable internet. Playability... The view system is not too bad but no straight back over the shoulder view is incorporated. I had to edit some files to make my hat switch work, but after that it became similar to AH in that respect. The system requirements are VERY HIGH, so don't expect it to run well on an older computer. 256 mb of ram is almost required, and some tweaking is in order for the swapfile, to prevent disk thrashing. This is the first game I have seen that is more of a ram hog than CFS-II.
The graphics are quite acceptable, with less of the stark clarity that AH has. I was particularly impressed with the multiple cloud layers. I found that lowering the resolution in WW2OL has a great effect on FPS and less of an effect on visual enjoyment than expected, much as in AH. Lower resolutions still look almost if not just as good, but with much higher framerates in both games.
I, for one, will not be buying the boxed version of this game due to it's limited planeset and unfinished FM and DM, however, I am not ruling it out as it, like AH, will be constantly updated and might turn out to be a gem in the future. I laughingly call my computer the Cray III, after the DOD computer the Cray II and this game taxes my system to it's limits. (Athlon Thunderbird 1.2 Gig processor, Vodoo 5, 256 mb PC-133 ram) so those of you without at least 5-600 mhz computers might as well forget this one.
Multiplayer Persistent games are a balance of things, good graphics = poor performance or high system requirements, good playability = lesser graphics and lower system requirements. Balance is the key, and it is more of an art than a science. AH has better playability, better FPS, and certainly a better FM, DM, and planeset. WW2OL shows potential in graphics and a historical and more strategic arena than AH. In my opinion AH has the best balance I have seen. I am not going anywhere for awhile gents, see ya in the MA. :D
Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff
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<S> GIJeff. This was the most objective review I have read thus far. I now have a better understanding of the situation and think I will wait a little while before purchase.
1 question. In all of the reviews I have seen, no one has mentioned ships. Have they not been included yet?
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The naval aspect is slated for a later date. It did not make this first release.
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I wont be buying it either, and your review mirrors all the testers I talked too.
"Connections are sporadic to some extent, especially since the release. I haven't been able to get into the game since it's release, and I am on cable internet."
Good lord, this is like saying a movie was good, if only the projector hadn't been broken at the theater.
I want WWIIOL to succeed, I can afford AH for,AND WWIIOL. But it's a fools waste of $ at this point.
It was VERY appearent from message boards that it wasn't ready, I can only guess the thoughts of the guys that REALLY thought they would take the weekend off and have a big time playing WWIIOL.
And yes, I am laughing bigtime on the tards that left AH for a incomplete TANK sim. Not because it costs HTC revenue, they will not lose a dime.
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I agree with Apache, very nice objective write-up.
And, no, there is no navy in the initial release.
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Thanks GIJeff. From what I've seen so far (no on-line yet) its pretty fair. I look forward to seeing more.
For the rest:
Most of the objective writeups are on hold until people really get the chance to evaluate the game.
Many AH people have purchased the game that than have already offered an oppinion.
AKDejaVu
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Thanks for the review,most informative. Just will have to sit back and wait till it improves a little better on performance.
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: NHFoxtro ]
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I tried to warn people about rushing into this game.. Looks like my guess was right.
Well, if CRS really sold them 20k copies of the boxed game, they certainly have dough to play with now. Question is, will they put the 'server overstressed' plaq on the wall and skip the country ;)
Nah, seriously, I think WW2OL will develop into a great MMOG with time if they keep working on it. From the reports that I heard I reckon there are a lot of unhappy campers around thinking 10 better ways to spend them $40 :) But at least they got there first!!
It was all too obvious after they canceled the open beta - my alarms went up immediately. I'm really glad I didn't purchase it after the hype because I wouldn't be able to play the game with my microsoft PP.
I'm going to wait and see what happens when their UBB opens up again.
It's just that with this development pace AH will reach and pass WW2OL before they even fix all the bugs from the first release. It's a shame in a way, I had high hopes for the game.
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Keep one thing in mind, as WW2 Online matures, so will Aces High...I see AH leading the pack right now (AW3 is old, FA is, well FA, WBIII is Alpha-not-ready-for-prime-time, WB2.77 is still okay, just outdated) so, its my opinion that if you like what you see today in AH, you're gonna love what they throw at us tomorrow (historically speaking)
WW2 Online has its niche, and I now understand HT's statement that AH is not in direct competition with WW2 Online.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
WW2 Online has its niche, and I now understand HT's statement that AH is not in direct competition with WW2 Online.
Totally agree.
In my experience and at the current stage of development, WW2 is mostly a "groundpounder" game with emphasis on mechanized, infantry and air in that order.
This may or may not change as development continues.
There is most certainly room for both; I don't think they really contend for the same player base although there is overlap.
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Good summation Ripsnort.
-Westy
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Good informative posts.
Thanks to all in this thread. :)
Salute!
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Nice review, Jeff.
I'm picking up my copy tonight and will try it out.
Unlike some, I'm not canning Aces High in favor of the other game. That's pretty silly, at least as I see it. I'm buying the game knowing the airplane section is somewhat incomplete, but being addressed. What I'm anxious to try is the tank and grunt stuff. I enjoyed Sony's Tanaurus Game for several months and think WW2's tanks and theme will be a lot of fun.
I'll be interested to see how the game runs on my Pentium 3 550, 384mb RAM, Voodoo3 3000 (16mb) and such....
So, I know people instantly wanna dump on WW2 Online and go "Neener neener"...but I'm going to wait and see. Of course, that's just me!
:D
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I don't normaly buy the first release of software (if I want to be a beta tester and all that) and from what I am hearing here and elsewere that rule stands. I will wait then see I am sure improvments will be forthcoming but don't think as fast or as sure as in AH. We have a direct line to HTC and get to help tune this sim, I like that. The way I see it the more online gameing grows the better just for all of us. I for one will wait for a bit more evalution in WW2OL before I jump in. With the rate that AH is growing I may not even bother. My $.02
Scoot out
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Originally posted by gijeff:
Salute Gents,
The ability to be a trooper is nifty, and the gun sights are realistic, but the control system for walking is all keyboard/mouse based with little joystick input. Hopefully they will make it easier to use a joystick for these features.
Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff
Uhmm, how do I relate to being a trooper? I wanna fly if I play WWIIOL! :D
Good post by the way, thanks for info! :)
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as a fomer WW2ol Betatester I can only agree to what GiJeff said.
I saw a lot of potential but still believe it came out to early.
So far no FlightSim comes close to AH overall.
But the IconSystem there is reall neat :D.
Maik
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Good review GIJeff, I agree entirely. I must admit I have had tremendous fun in the tanks and that is the most exciting thing about WWIIOL. The fact that troops can sneak by you whilst you're gunning another tank means bases can be sneaked easily.
Additionally the lack of detailed map actually makes it more realistic as you have to navigate (and pay attention more!) your way around to find towns etc. Good fun!
All I can say is that the connect is the main problem, but it will get better.
Regards
Nexx
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The icon system is fediddleing awesome. HT please take note. Icons appear slowly as you continue to look in that direction. IE, glance, and you may miss something.
At the very least WWIIOL is going to fire up some ideas for other online games.
Unfortunately I think the initial experience for most boxed-product users will be very negative, ie it goes like this:
- buy WWIIOL $40, wait eagerly for release
- woohoo it arrives
- login, 60Mb patch? WTF! Oh well
- hmmm timeout on that site lets try a mirror
- hmmm lets try the other mirror
- 24 hours late finally got the patch
- login, loading ... server is full... WTF?
- wait a couple of hours, finally get in
- take up spit, crap it doesn't work with MS Pre Pro
- exit, wait 4 mins, spawn trooper
- get mowed down by tank
Frustration is obvious, and when people finally do get in they are far from being in their happy place.
My P3-600, 256Mb PC133, Geforce 2MX system is barely at spec to fight on land, way under spec to fly. I hardly consider this system low end, and it meets the 'recommended' spec on the box. Yet it falls far below what you really need.
I am disappointed, more from the negative reaction I think WWIIOL will get from all of this. I really miss having a game thats what WWIIOL is supposed to be, EQ and that other magic-rpg-fairy crap just doesn't do it for me.
On the bright side, anyone seen the screens for planetside? Not WW2 - but looks good and Sonys backing it.
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I agree 100% with GIJEFF. WW2OL is pretty cool if you have a fast system and you want to play with tanks, but the flying aspect is no wear near AH except in 1 respect: the ICONS
the ICONS are FABULOUS! exactly the type of compromise in an icon system i think would be perfect for aces high.
my father always told me to "steal with my eyes" and i encourage htc to do the same.
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Good write up GiJeff, agree with you right down the line.
Lots of promise there but but IMO it's not worth the 40$ at this point.
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I have been a betatester of WWIIonline for a while, and I agree with GiJeff 100%.
There is no way I would trade AH for WWIIonline, way to incomplete if you ask me.
Like he said, connections has been terrible the last two weeks, and it is really difficult to connect to the server, this is actually the most annoying bug of them all.
I see several people leave AH now for WWIIonline, thrust me, they will be back, every single one of them. ;)
Unless you really are into tank driving, I do believe this is the coolest aspect of WWIIonline, but it simply aint enough(at least not for me).
(http://home.online.no/~g-hanse/332.bmp)
The 332 "VIKING" squadron
Lasse
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: lasse ]
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Thnaks for your review GiJeff !
i've downloaded the software a few weeks ago then RL issues kept me from intsalling and trying ..
Redid the DL (another 80MB DL :)) and tried again yesterday and though it hung up on my with that intro screen showing loading for 4+ minutes ... as far as i've heared now from other folks that might be normal tho and i'll have to give it another try...
DW6
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S!
Thanx for opinions and insights!I will sit back and wait a moment before even testing WW2OL.AH/WB is enuf for me now.
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Very nice review GIJeff! :=)
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It doesnt work with the Microsoft Precision Pro??? Its a very common, popular and widely used stick. Were the game producers temporarily retarded when they did that?
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.lurkmode 0
.pickmode 1
Never heard of the Curtis Hawk, what rock you live under?? And it's a Bf109E4 for the Battle of France.
:rolleyes:
.lurkmode 1
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The way I see it, the publishers threatened to pull their deal unless it was released. Hence the rushed state, the lack of open beta etc.
But the short-term boost in funds is just that. How many people will subscribe (the real money-spinning part of the enterprise), even if they don't return the game for a refund.
Things could still go very much tits-up at CRS.
But on the positive side, the game has huge potential, and is a great idea. But to expect people to have 1 GHz systems with 512 Mb of RAM and a cable modem just to connect is ridiculous. But I expect this to be addressed within a month - it has to be their highest priority.
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Thanks for the entlightment ;)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
It doesnt work with the Microsoft Precision Pro??? Its a very common, popular and widely used stick. Were the game producers temporarily retarded when they did that?
Hmmmm! Works fine with mine. Didn't do anything but plug it in and launch the game.
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It works fine with MS Precission Pro.
The flight modell isn't finished, as it feels now planes bleed E quite much like AH when it comes to flying straight up and normal up etc.
However, when it comes to turning/flat turning the planes in there it seams like they all use a Jet Engine, only the weight is taken away so it's generally a 4000 pound 109 with a neat little jet engine ;)
What seams to be most competative with AH at the moment, is TK, we'll see how it turns out.
Besides, WW2OL needs a kick as Computer with atleast 256 Mb RAM
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Originally posted by Dowding:
The way I see it, the publishers threatened to pull their deal unless it was released. Hence the rushed state, the lack of open beta etc.
But the short-term boost in funds is just that. How many people will subscribe (the real money-spinning part of the enterprise), even if they don't return the game for a refund.
Things could still go very much tits-up at CRS.
But on the positive side, the game has huge potential, and is a great idea. But to expect people to have 1 GHz systems with 512 Mb of RAM and a cable modem just to connect is ridiculous. But I expect this to be addressed within a month - it has to be their highest priority.
20,000 sold (this number has been passed around on the WW2O UBB, don't know if it's true.)is a good start and gives them $800,000
to buy the servers they needed to start with. But I feel sorry for the 80,000 suckers who'll go to the store and see min. requirements of P2 450 and 33.3bps connection and 128 megs of ram. Then when trying to connect, have to download 200 megs of the game that wasn't included on the CD to play. As it stands now, the CD off the shelf is usless...the day it was released. A 70 meg download isn't a patch to fix a few bugs....it just wasn't included in the production run. And you can bet it will get bigger.....soon.
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GIJeff,
Can you explain step by step how you got your hat views working? Quite a few people including myself are having problems with this.
bowser
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The problem with the hat views is that the file the keymapper saves the views to is write protected.
Go to the following folder C:\Playnet\CRS\WW2OL\data\kgm\nonveh and select properties on the file called views or views.kgm. turn off the write protect on the file and the keymapper will work.
I think the path above is for a default installation, so it may be different on your PC.
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Salute Gents,
The process to map the keys goes on in the key mapper button on the vehicle selection, but first you have to make ALL the KGM files writeable, some are hidden in another folder and you have to find them all or it won't work. After that it is easy, you just click on the existing map, ie. numpad 7, and then click the hat switch in the direction you need that function mapped to. If you are like me you might have to try a few times on the diagonal ones, keep hitting the wrong one, duh. If you do it in the views tab it is global.
Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff
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Yeah that "French Thingie" (Hawk 75 = P-36) is predecessor of Curtiss P-40, Only big difference to Warhawk/Tomahawk (Allison engine) is its radial engine (Pratt&Whitney) :)
(Also FAF did use them)
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Salute Gents,
Bump! I can't find the post so bumping it back up on the list.
Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff
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Hey guys, well i am just amazed that WWIIonline was released when it was so under tested at high load levels.
Hope that the bad publicity will not damadge thier ability to follow this though and get it working.
Yep i agree will all stated so far, the Flying aspect of the game is limited, although i do like the nice little effects like the slideing canopys and the sounds of gun fire wizzing past your head :)
Looks like a great game with huge potental, it just need far more testing and developing
Either way, if WWiionline dose get better i still will hold on to my AH account, the best Flight sim by far :)
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Excellent summary, GIJeff, thanks much. Since my main interest is flightsim, I remain ecstatic about AH, my all-time favorite computer recreation.
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Anybody figured out the command or setting to display frame rate (fps)?
bowser
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num lock
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New map out
http://sfi2.com/forum/ubb/Forum9/HTML/003114.html (http://sfi2.com/forum/ubb/Forum9/HTML/003114.html)
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New map out
http://sfi2.com/forum/ubb/Forum9/HTML/003114.html (http://sfi2.com/forum/ubb/Forum9/HTML/003114.html)
Running , ducks head :eek:
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Thanks Fatty. Wouldn't you know it, tried every key combination, but forgot about the numpad section. :)
bowser