Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Raptor on July 27, 2004, 03:00:54 AM

Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Raptor on July 27, 2004, 03:00:54 AM
Which would be a better transport?
(http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Ju%2052%20prepared%20for%20takeoff%20-%20Eastern%20Front%201944.jpg)
Ju-52 was more reliable and produced in larger numbers. Also more forgiving in combat.
(http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Marder/Marder2-6Me232.jpg)
ME-232 was Larger, required 6 engines to take off on its own. More Cargo room yet clumsy and a easy target for fighters, even with 4 20mm guns for defense
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: artik on July 27, 2004, 03:32:49 AM
Ju-52 - we defenetly need LW troops plane - like C-47 - also it was slightly defended with 3x7mm guns so it would be better ride to bring troops......

Also it was produced in very high numbers
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: hogenbor on July 27, 2004, 05:49:46 AM
Wasn't the 232 the glider and the 323 the motorized variant? Too lazy to look it up.

Compared to it's allied counterpart, the Ju-52 is based on much older methods of aircraft construction, dating back I believe to WWI even, when Junkers pioneered corrugated aluminium aircraft. In contrast the C-47 is state of the art for its time with stressed skin construction throughout. It is of course faster too. But still, the Ju-52 is historically highly significant and a cool plane to see. Still, it would only be an LW alternative to the C-47 and just as vulnerable.

The Me-232/323 is just steel tubing with canvas, I can imagine breaking it up with only the slightest amount of 'G' being applied. It would be able to haul tanks and troops ans whatnot, but don't we have spawnpoints for that? Maybe nice in highly specialized scenario's but still they would be sitting ducks, 20mm or not.

So I would choose the Ju-52 although it would bring nothing to enhance gameplay.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Ghosth on July 27, 2004, 07:05:59 AM
JU-52 was developed in the early 30's. Was first a passenger plane, then adapted to cargo/troop transport, etc as germany went to war.

Very similar to the C-47 in many respects except the c-47 outclasses it in design, engines, performance, etc. I'm sure the c-47 was designed at least 3 - 5 years after the ju-52.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Crumpp on July 27, 2004, 08:18:31 AM
Quote
So I would choose the Ju-52 although it would bring nothing to enhance gameplay.


When tour of Duty comes out it will enhance immersion.  Nothing looks worse than a flight of 109's escorting a C47.  The C-47 was used by every major combatant in WWII.  The Japanese even copied it.  The Germans and the Italians were the only ones who didn't.  Having the JU-52 and the C47 provides historically correct transport A/C that covers the entire spectrum of WWII.  
IMO HTC could even simply reskin the C47 and not have to completely redo a flight model from scratch.  

Crumpp
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: SunTracker on July 27, 2004, 10:33:45 AM
Ju52 has 3 engines crump, C47 has 2.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Crumpp on July 27, 2004, 11:05:18 AM
Yes,

I know that.  Do we really need HTC to spend time and resources researching the EXACT flight characteristics of the JU52?

It's place in the game is such that IMO, reskinning the C47 and adding some gauges to the cockpit would be fine.

Save the time and research for the fighters and bombers.

Crumpp
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: artik on July 27, 2004, 11:23:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
It's place in the game is such that IMO, reskinning the C47 and adding some gauges to the cockpit would be fine.


That is the problem HTC doen't accpets any non-WW2/non-historical exact skins :(

We lost our toy for SEA/CT setup makers......

No longer any subsituations at CT/SEA
No longer any non-WW2 setups at CT/SEA
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Karnak on July 27, 2004, 11:24:43 AM
Crump,

IIRC, Pyro did the FM for the Ju52 in WarBirds.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: HoHun on July 27, 2004, 01:32:42 PM
Hi Hogenbor,

>Wasn't the 232 the glider and the 323 the motorized variant?

The Me 321 was the glider, and the Me 323 the  motorized variant.

>Compared to it's allied counterpart, the Ju-52 is based on much older methods of aircraft construction, dating back I believe to WWI even, when Junkers pioneered corrugated aluminium aircraft. In contrast the C-47 is state of the art for its time with stressed skin construction throughout. It is of course faster too.

Junkers built stressed skin aircraft from the beginning :-) But the corrugated skin, while giving a weight advantage, meant a big drag disadvantage at the speeds airliners reached in the 1930s. The Ju 52 wasn't able to compete commercially with the DC-3 airliners back then, and the Luft Hansa was already trying to get a more modern successor developed. The Focke-Wulf Fw 200 was designed as direct DC-3 competitor :-) (The contemporary German engines weren't powerful enough to yield high performance with a twin-engined layout.)

In the military role, the Junkers Ju 52 had only one advantage over the C-47: It could operate from smaller fields than the Douglas transport. That made the Ju 52 superior as tactical transport, but the C-47 of course was much more efficient logistically when good fields were available.

>The Me-232/323 is just steel tubing with canvas, I can imagine breaking it up with only the slightest amount of 'G' being applied.

Many tough planes were from steel tubing with canvas. Thoughness just depends on the steel-to-air ratio ;-)

>But still, the Ju-52 is historically highly significant and a cool plane to see. Still, it would only be an LW alternative to the C-47 and just as vulnerable.

If you're looking for something different, the Arado Ar 232 would be the way to go :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Wotan on July 27, 2004, 01:37:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
When tour of Duty comes out it will enhance immersion.  Nothing looks worse than a flight of 109's escorting a C47.  The C-47 was used by every major combatant in WWII.  The Japanese even copied it.  The Germans and the Italians were the only ones who didn't.  Having the JU-52 and the C47 provides historically correct transport A/C that covers the entire spectrum of WWII.  
IMO HTC could even simply reskin the C47 and not have to completely redo a flight model from scratch.  

Crumpp


Theres no base capture in ToD so who cares?
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Raptor on July 27, 2004, 05:46:00 PM
supplies
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Wotan on July 27, 2004, 06:13:43 PM
waste of time and completely pointless. HT has said that an 8th airforce setup would most likely be first. Escorting ju52s would be a stupid mission to include that or any setup.

Especially when there are major gaps in the planeset as is. Not just for an 8th af set up but in most theaters.

Dont hold your breath on a ju52...
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: B17Skull12 on July 27, 2004, 11:56:05 PM
ju52's make nice targets in il2:D
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 10:27:25 AM
Tante Ju is such a classic airplane. However if we get the Gigant we can bring along Leftenant Gruber and his little tank. ;)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/245_1091028952_grubertank.jpg)

:D
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: VO101_Isegrim on July 28, 2004, 10:39:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Tante Ju is such a classic airplane. However if we get the Gigant we can bring along Leftenant Gruber in his little tank. ;)


Heh - Codename, Panzers ? ;)

ON :

I think the question is bit artificial, these are totally different class of transport. The JU 52 was well thought out, reliable and practical transport plane, well fit for any normal transport requirement of the war - and well beyond, they are still working.

The Gigant on the other hand was a completely unique transport with unique abilities at that time - almost ten times the weight can be carried than the Tante Ju, and even more importantly, vehicles, even medium tanks that were before unthinkable to be transported via air! I can think it can be considered the forerunner of the large modern military transports of today like the Galaxy or Hercules.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Canaris on July 28, 2004, 11:36:15 AM
Where were the ju52's guns located?

Canaris
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Puck on July 28, 2004, 01:46:55 PM
Ju-52 was also a bomber.  Oddly enough they were using it to bomb Madrid while Lufthansa was flying them in as a commercial transport.
Title: Ju-52 vs ME-232
Post by: Sombra on July 28, 2004, 09:35:43 PM
Also versions with dorsal MG 131 (13mm)

http://www.ju52-3m.ch/about.htm

greetings