Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wipass on July 27, 2004, 10:23:55 AM

Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: wipass on July 27, 2004, 10:23:55 AM: And if you do, can you outline the advantages or disadvantages that they bring to your flying skills.

Can a "twisty" stick compete with dedicated pedals ?

Thanks

wipass
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: BigGun on July 27, 2004, 10:26:45 AM: I use rudder pedals, CH Pro Peds USB. Probably used them for past two years. Prior to that, used twisty stick & then rocker rudder on Sat x45.

The difference is night & day. Way more control & use with pedals. When I got them, I couldn't believe I had waited so long. Worth every penny & then some.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Eagler on July 27, 2004, 10:29:38 AM: ^
what he said
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Edbert on July 27, 2004, 10:30:04 AM: You'll get many differing opinions, everyone likes what they use. One of my old squaddies and con-partner for years had great success with the twisty stick. I flew his rig once and thought it was crap, he tried my simpeds and couldn't use em well at all.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: phookat on July 27, 2004, 10:39:02 AM: I use the twisty stick. I tried pedals once, couldn't get any precision out of them. In a real plane you get feedback through the pedals, but without that my feet just don't give me a good indication of what's going on. Hands are more sensitive, so I can make do better without the feedback.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: JB73 on July 27, 2004, 10:53:47 AM: Quote
Originally posted by BigGun
I use rudder pedals, CH Pro Peds USB. Probably used them for past two years. Prior to that, used twisty stick & then rocker rudder on Sat x45.

The difference is night & day. Way more control & use with pedals. When I got them, I couldn't believe I had waited so long. Worth every penny & then some.
i made the same progression to rocker, then pedals....

the transition to rocker was HARD. learning the "seperation" from a twisty stick too a while. all the time with the twisty i was ptting rudder input intuititivly, not thinking about it.

once i got that "seperation" and learned to use a rudder on it's own i flew alot better. moving to pedals, i kept the "rudder" on the x45 unmapped, and just trained myself to puch my feet whenever i actuated the rudder on the stick. that transition went alot faster.

now i doubt i could fly a twisty stick LOL. i have been slacking in my time flying, and my skills have drastically diminished, due to lack of trying LOL. but i still say pedals are the way to go every day and twice on sunday.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: gunnss on July 27, 2004, 10:56:52 AM: I use peds , and used Saitek rocker switch before that used twisty stick before that....

Of the three I like the pedals best, pros being that they add to the immersion, provide toe brakes, allow an extended range of manuvers, and separate the joystic from the YAW. The Con is keeping them in one place. This more or less lead to the creation of my simpit where they live in the footwell.

Next comes in my favor the Twist stick, the pro being that rudder use is intuitive and smoothly intagrated to turns. The con being separating rudder input from rapid JS inputs and un intended rudder inputs.

Least favored are rocker switchs, usally they are mounted in an akward place, and they tend to be an all or nothing affair, with fine controll being beyond my skills.

Where my rudder pedals live now.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/thumbs/248_1082870884_2-1.jpg) (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/picpopup.php?ImgId=5546)

Gunns
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Sikboy on July 27, 2004, 11:06:55 AM: I might be the only one, but I went from Pedals to the X-45 rocker.

I bought the TM Pedals back in 95, and flew with them until December 2002. The wife bought me an X-45 for Christmas (I never would have paid for the buck rodgers looking thing myself) and I thought "eh, what the hell."

I like the Rocker a lot better, as I tend to sit cross legged in my chair. Now I don't see myself ever going back, unless I make a bazillion dollars and become a recluse living in the top of a vegas casino a-la Howard Hueghs, getting all "simmed out" in my billion dollar VR cockpit.

-Sik
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: YUCCA on July 27, 2004, 11:41:02 AM: I use twisty :)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: J_A_B on July 27, 2004, 11:43:53 AM: Heh....I have my keyboard.

For rudder, it leaces much to be desired

J_A_B
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: gofaster on July 27, 2004, 11:48:31 AM: I use CH Pro Pedals, USB. I've used pedals since Air Warrior and don't know how I lived without them. Not only are the USB controls usable for AH, but you can use the pedals as gas/brake for racing sims, too.

I have hardwood floors and the rubber pads keep the pedals in place well enough so long as I don't let the dust pile up under the desk.

Twisty sticks don't have toe brakes (handy for landing Corsairs).
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Fariz on July 27, 2004, 11:50:10 AM: I have CH pedals and love them. Used stick rudder control before. It has its advantages, but pedals adds to immersion greatly.

If you will buy them, be ready for quite long transitional period. Took me almost 3 months to get a right "feel" over pedals.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Sikboy on July 27, 2004, 11:57:19 AM: Quote
Originally posted by gofaster

Twisty sticks don't have toe brakes (handy for landing Corsairs).

All a matter of priority I guess, but I have toe brakes mapped to the left/right axis of my #2 hat switch.

-Sik
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: pellik on July 27, 2004, 12:07:28 PM: I moved from a twisty stick to pedals about a year ago. Learing to use the pedals takes a while, so if you make the switch expect your flying to suffer for a tour or so.
I found the big difference to be in what I used the rudder for. With a twisty stick I would use my rudder to whip the nose over for snapshots and to correct my aim when pulling for a tracking shot. With pedals I primarily use my rudder to assist in maneuvers by increasing my roll rate, bleeding E, and keeping my nose up longer in stalls

-pellik
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: save on July 27, 2004, 12:15:37 PM: hiya wipass !

I use rudders : simpeds are the best but I cannot afford them right now.

I fly for real and I have lots of advantages
using the "real thing" when im up in the air - sometimes a bit rusty.

~~/save~~
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: B17Skull12 on July 27, 2004, 12:22:03 PM: I just got my rudder pedals a few days ago and let me tell you. I can do things that i though weren't even possible before i got them. I love these thing and they were damn worth every penny. I couldn't use a twisty because i injured my hand a few years ago and i can't use the twisty axis it give me a really funny feeling.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Jackal1 on July 27, 2004, 12:44:41 PM: I`ve had the same CH pedals for many years. Tryed the twisty thingie and found I lost a lot of control.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: RTSigma on July 27, 2004, 01:36:41 PM: I haven't TRIED them, so I wouldn't know what it's like. I use a twisty Saitek Evo and it works just fine. I'm not a diehard sim fan yet, but I need a tip, how gunnss has his joystick set up. I have an L shaped desk, with my computer on the bottom part of the L and the joystick on a keyboard stand from the desk about 3-4 inches below the desk.

What do you recommend to make a temporary between the legs joystick holder that can last just a month? (I"m leaving for school and the desks there are easier to modify)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: JB73 on July 27, 2004, 01:57:38 PM: Quote
Originally posted by RTSigma
I haven't TRIED them, so I wouldn't know what it's like. I use a twisty Saitek Evo and it works just fine. I'm not a diehard sim fan yet, but I need a tip, how gunnss has his joystick set up. I have an L shaped desk, with my computer on the bottom part of the L and the joystick on a keyboard stand from the desk about 3-4 inches below the desk.

What do you recommend to make a temporary between the legs joystick holder that can last just a month? (I"m leaving for school and the desks there are easier to modify)
there was a thread about this...

take a piece of flat wood about 1.5 feet square (the larger the more stable).

in the center mount a bracket from the hardware store that will take a 3" PVC pipe.

get a piece of 3" PVC pipe, about as long as your waist sttting down (the height of the fixture).

make another piece of wood large enough to hold your joystick / throttle and on the bottom put another of the brackets that holds the PVC.

now put them together like a dumbell, the PVC between the 2 boards. the bottom piece can be made so your chail sits on it to stop it from sliding away.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Flyboy on July 27, 2004, 02:33:48 PM: i had a twisti and pedals.

pedals are just more fun :)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Lazer on July 27, 2004, 04:29:41 PM: Mouse and keyboard is the way to go :D
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: RTSigma on July 27, 2004, 04:32:21 PM: Thanks for the help JB73, I'll give that a try, for right now, I'll see if my ma won't mind if I use a hutch or even a small little shelf and 'modify' it.

I'll just dump out her "Precious Moments" and put them in a garbage bag labeled "Ma's Porcelin Stuff lol"
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Jackal1 on July 27, 2004, 05:05:33 PM: Quote
Originally posted by RTSigma

I'll just dump out her "Precious Moments" and put them in a garbage bag labeled "Ma's Porcelin Stuff lol"

DUCK! INCOMING! Ma Ack!
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Murdr on July 27, 2004, 05:40:10 PM: I use pedals. I have never had CH pedals, but I use racing pedals (they were cheap, and I already had them). Back into AW I used twisty sticks. In AH at least pedals add a much finer detail of control. As far as "feedback" goes, I absoutely cannot fly with shoes on lol.

I have a keyboard/mouse drawer on my desk, leaves the desktop nice and clean for the stick.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Waffle on July 27, 2004, 06:15:50 PM: I used to have the microsaft forcefeedback with twitsy rudder...and I went and got the ful ch setup, munis the throtlle.

Anyway at first I hated the rudders...lol
Couldn't sight anything - way to unstable..then I realized i had combat trim off...lol

Anyway I like em now - took about a month or 2 to get really comfortable with them.

After the first days of Ch suckage and frustration -I tried my microsost stick, and realized that i alway had a little left rudder applied in most combat situations because i was twisting the stick unintentionally.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: nopoop on July 27, 2004, 07:37:16 PM: CH pedals. You can't FLY without pedals.

I used to do the real thingy.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Flit on July 27, 2004, 07:56:59 PM: Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
I just got my rudder pedals a few days ago and let me tell you. I can do things that i though weren't even possible before i got them. I love these thing and they were damn worth every penny.

This says it all. especially the "I can do things that I thought were'nt even possible before I got them" part.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: WldThing on July 27, 2004, 08:01:42 PM: Twisty stick Here.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Frodo on July 27, 2004, 08:14:11 PM: CH Pro Pedals USB.

Can't wear shoes and use them either.

Agree with Fariz, it takes some time to get used to them.

Frodo
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Flossy on July 28, 2004, 03:48:03 AM: I've used CH Pro-Pedals since I first started attempting to fly in AW (only gunned bombers and used GVs at first) and have never been able to use a twisty-stick. :)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: wipass on July 28, 2004, 03:55:29 AM: Thanks

So ..... those that use pedals ... Are you saying that using pedals with AH you are able to obtain MORE rudder control or is it just easier to use this rudder control.

I am trying to ascertain if AH allows more rudder control to pedals as opposed to a twisty stick.

I have been using a twisty for around 5 years (WB and AH) and whilst I consider myself an average stick, I know I can do better and am looking for an edge.

I tried pedals once at a con and found them completely alien to use.

wipass
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Xargos on July 28, 2004, 04:05:51 AM: If you have the money, get youself some CH pro pedals. Give it a month or two & you won't be able to live without them.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Flyboy on July 28, 2004, 04:17:27 AM: hi wip.

i used both a twisti and pedals, and i must say i didnt notice any difference in my abillity, exept up to a month or so after i switched to pedals where i felt like a cripple. :o

as i said earlier, the major difference is a the fun and immersion factors.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: wipass on July 28, 2004, 05:12:20 AM: Hi save, ben

Well .. I guess I will have to invest to find out

wipass
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: wrag on July 28, 2004, 06:07:37 AM: Have some old TM Elite pedals that would never stay put. Hated em.

Got a set of CHPro peds and after flyin with em awhile and gettin used to em don't think I could ever return to twisty.

Had a TM AfterBurner that I liked because of the response but pots went bad fairly quick. Liked the rocker switch they had so went with X45 next but.....

Got nothin but CHPro now TY :D

Peds made by CHPro or SimPed are the way to go IMHO.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: jaxxo on July 28, 2004, 08:24:32 AM: Ok heres the deal. I have had rudder pedals for awhile. They worked great in AW but I find they kinda suck in AH for flying fighters. They have no feel to them and seem to respond the same no matter how much input (how hard u push on them). I keep them around though because they are great for toebraking (differential input for left and right brake) and gunning on buffs (keeps plane from movin while in gun position) as well as working great with gvs (allows u to drive and shoot on the run very effectively). So they are worth the money despite their flying shortfalls....and you might like them yourself.

P.S. Ive tried every slider and damping combination with same poor results.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: jaxxo on July 28, 2004, 08:43:26 AM: Oh yeah..I flew with a mouse for about a year and a half in here with pretty good success (avg 1000 kills a tod). The mouse really taught me how to use rudder sparingly. When you use rudder only when ya have to..you retain your e alot better. In this regard the pedals are better than the twisty (twisty gives ya alot of unintentional rudder input). Also if ya furball alot pedals are alot easier on your wrist. Thats all theory for me though cause I cant get them to work properly.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: nsty1 on July 28, 2004, 03:00:23 PM: (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/664_1091043823_dsc02516.jpg)

This is(will be) my setup for pedals,all home-made.
modified through a saitek X-45.
The rest of the sim-pit is next:)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Morpheus on July 28, 2004, 03:14:29 PM: Quote
Who here uses rudder pedals ?

People that die alot.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Jasta on July 28, 2004, 05:04:42 PM: I just upgraded from twisty stick to rocker bar, and i think its a lot better. It took a long time to get used to, and im still working on it. But now my plane retains E better because i dont use as much rudder.

As for pedals, I cant imagine doing well with pedals. I fly the real thing 2-3 times a week and i would find it hard without the feedback from real rudders. Its very important to flying straight.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Murdr on July 28, 2004, 06:58:43 PM: Quote
Originally posted by nsty1
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/664_1091043823_dsc02516.jpg)

This is(will be) my setup for pedals,all home-made.
modified through a saitek X-45.
The rest of the sim-pit is next:)

WTG nsty1. In the early 90s when wheel/pedal controlers for pc racing were nearly $200 I went that route also, cost me about $40 in parts. I like the pivot design you have there, very clever.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: JB73 on July 28, 2004, 07:10:58 PM: Quote
Originally posted by nsty1
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/664_1091043823_dsc02516.jpg)

This is(will be) my setup for pedals,all home-made.
modified through a saitek X-45.
The rest of the sim-pit is next:)
those seem to only actuate like gas / brake pedals. thats what the toe brakes are for

i see those C brackets holding the axis the pedals occilate on, am i missing something?
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Boat on July 28, 2004, 07:56:01 PM: I've used twisty sitck, rocker and now pedals. I never liked the twisty sitick because I was getting a lot of inadvertant rudder movement in the heat of battle. The rocker was better in that respect but I found that aside from using the rudder to taxi I didn't really use it much in action.

The CH pedals are excellent and give you rudder and brake control but I still don't use much rudder in a fiight. Maybe I just don't know how to use rudder to best effect but sometimes I find myself in a dog fight and my feer are not even on the pedals.

I'd love to see someone do a write up on the use of rudder in AH air combat.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Widewing on July 28, 2004, 08:51:57 PM: Due to having my first set of pedals crap out, I learned to use the rocker. I find that if set up properly, and if you are practiced enough, the rocker is works as well as pedals.

I suggest that people go to the TA and learn how rudder usage can make a huge difference in maneuvering performance.

That Typhoon too sluggish on the ailerons at low speed? Rudder will triple the roll rate, albeit with some yaw and loss of speed.

In a turning match, and your fighter wants to snap-roll? You can reduce that tendency with some rudder.

Need an edge in a rolling scissors? That's right, use some rudder.

Twisty sticks? Too easy to induce yaw when you don't want or need it. Rockers are better, and for most people, pedals are best.

Regardless of which type you use, learn how rudder improves flight performance. Why? Because those that do use rudder have an edge.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Stang on July 28, 2004, 09:06:43 PM: Quote
sometimes I find myself in a dog fight and my feer are not even on the pedals.

OMG dude, in a fight I almost use as much rudder as stick. It probably looks like I'm sliding like crazy through the sky when I do it lol. If I didn't have pedals I'd be about as good as Morph :rofl
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: nsty1 on July 28, 2004, 09:09:46 PM: Thxs Murdr,I'll be taking the pot out the X-45 and re-mounting it behind the aluminum tubing bracket,i believe it'll have a longer travel.Need to get stiffer springs and mount my toe brakes pedal switches on the upper left hand corners of pedals.(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/664_1091066900_dsc02513.jpg)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: RTGorkle on July 28, 2004, 09:43:42 PM: (http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/p2.jpg)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/index.html

Schlep.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Raptor on July 28, 2004, 10:00:05 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Lazer
Mouse and keyboard is the way to go :D

dont ya just love the reaction ya get after killing someone and they find out you use mouse and keyboard:aok
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: airbumba on July 29, 2004, 11:01:06 AM: Quote
Originally posted by RTGorkle
(http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/p2.jpg)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/index.html

Schlep.

OMG!! It's Baron Von Rich-TOE-fon.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: mechanic on July 30, 2004, 11:57:23 AM: twisty stick is the only way for me.

MS sidewinder pro (the old one, not even force feedback)

had it for 9 years, never need another one yet!

WTG (for once) Microsoft
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: airbumba on July 30, 2004, 02:41:29 PM: Quote
Originally posted by RTGorkle
(http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/p2.jpg)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~pchance/squidgear/index.html

Schlep.

Watch as Baron Von RichTOEfon performs amazing FEETS in his war against his ARCH enemies. See him NAIL Lt. BALL.

...sounds kinda CORNY eh ? I feel like a HEEL having posted this.... oh well back to the bar.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Morpheus on July 31, 2004, 04:17:36 PM: Quote
If I didn't have pedals I'd be about as good as Morph

Only I can suck as much as I do.

Back off!!!
Title: Re: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on July 31, 2004, 05:50:55 PM: Quote
Originally posted by wipass
And if you do, can you outline the advantages or disadvantages that they bring to your flying skills.

Can a "twisty" stick compete with dedicated pedals ?

Thanks

wipass

Chpro pedals, never used a twisty stick, much more accurate gunnery, after a while you forget they're even there.
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: Scrap on August 01, 2004, 11:53:52 PM: Quote
Originally posted by nsty1
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/664_1091043823_dsc02516.jpg)

This is(will be) my setup for pedals,all home-made.
modified through a saitek X-45.
The rest of the sim-pit is next:)

Just gimme a piece of string, a paperclip, and a stick of jucyfruit... and this setup will be ready to ROCK!
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: YUCCA on August 06, 2004, 01:00:18 PM: This thread inspired me.. UPS man should be here today with my pro pedals :)
Title: Who here uses rudder pedals ?
Post by: ghi on August 06, 2004, 07:18:34 PM: b4 i got CH, fighterstick +pedals , i wasted much more money on 1-2 cheap sticks/month,
I'm 240+lbs , big " lumber jack " hands, Specialy when the game went bad and i was uppset, those sticks crushed eassy.
I can't destroy this stick . Pedals, are strong , i hit them bad and still working fine. My wife is complainig that i'm going to destroy the floor b4 the pedals and fall in basesemet.