Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on July 27, 2004, 01:24:35 PM
-
Choose carefully...
Arabs:
(http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/hamas%20suicide%20bombers%20march.jpg)
IDF:
(http://www.azexarms.com/images/gallery/IDFbabes.jpg)
-
Chicks in uniform...mmmmmmm
Israeli chicks in uniform......mmmmmmm
I choose the lower pic...preferably the one second from the left.
-
Hmpf I kinda had my eye on her myself
-
The second from the right looks like she's be alot of fun...same for the one behind her.
I'm flexible.
-
I'll take the 2nd on the right TOP...
-
heh, poor Curval, everyone is stealing his picks...soon all he is left with is one of those guys dressed in sheets
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
(http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/hamas%20suicide%20bombers%20march.jpg)
shame the nutbags in the foreground are the "ninja turtles" to the kids in the background ...
-
Ive always leaned towards the good lookin babes in any male/female comparrison. Sorry.
To be fair there are some stunningly beautiful arab women.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
To be fair there are some stunningly beautiful arab women.
Unfotunately, by age 20 they need shaving cream and a good triple edged razor.
-
They can occupy my Gaza Strip anytime.
-
What was the question?
Oh...Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
Arabs...
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/bldg.jpg)
or IDF
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/muslimWomen.jpg)
Wow that's hard question.
-
Yeah real hard if you only look at pictures from Al Jezara.
Way to ruin a lighthearted thread. :rolleyes:
-
bye bye staga
-
well i will choose the second pic. but i am BIASed :rolleyes: :D
on a different note
staga, dont go there..you wont belive the pictures ive seen.
-
Mmmm I think we defently need closer ties to the botom picture.
very very close ties:aok
-
can't counter stagas photos
not enough left of the women and children on a bus blown to pieces by a nutbag bomber to take a photo of ...
-
LOL any of us make a move on them, they would tear us a new one.....whack..pow....boom... .thud...crash...maybe they teach us how to shoot if we ask them real nice?
-
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Yeah real hard if you only look at pictures from Al Jezara.
As opposed to the totally unbiases pictures provided by Hortlund.
Way to ruin a lighthearted thread. :rolleyes:
Yeah featuring mock suicide bombers, soldiers and two groups of people that like killing each other, HAHAHAH! :rolleyes:
-
There he goes again...equating the terrorists and the soldiers. You are a sick f*ck thrawn, you and your ilk.
-
Dont get upset for tossing bad bate Hortlund. With the ammount of stamina you have you are bound to make it someday.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Dont get upset for tossing bad bate Hortlund. With the ammount of stamina you have you are bound to make it someday.
Gorgeous girls = bad bait? Maybe for a homo.
-
I swear, the only Liberal with a sense of humor is Clinton - and thats only because he gets his rocks off every once in awhile.
When are you guys going to move from the security of your huts in Canada and Finland to support the freedom fighting arabs?
Word on the street is that there are quite a few bulldozers that need standing infront of.
Get moving - and hold onto your head.
-
Originally posted by Staga
What was the question?
Oh...Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
Wow that's hard question.
Way to ruin a fun and light hearted thread..
A joke, cause who would choose suicide bombers over pretty women? Bah!
Let alone, women in uniform, and with guns!
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Gorgeous girls = bad bait? Maybe for a homo.
Hehe, you should give it a rest between your tries. You may get a better results that way.
-
Can't see their faces in the top picture, how can I compare?
-
Metthinks Saw swings righty and lefty.
-
The good guys of course!
-
Originally posted by Curval
Chicks in uniform...mmmmmmm
Israeli chicks in uniform......mmmmmmm
I choose the lower pic...preferably the one second from the left.
Good Ill take the blond second from right lower right hand side.
The rest are lesbians
On second thought.
I'll take them too!
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The good guys of course!
They are very hard to find, unfortunately.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
There he goes again...equating the terrorists and the soldiers. You are a sick f*ck thrawn, you and your ilk.
Wow, the depths of your stupidity go even farther than I thought. Have a nice day.
-
Isn't Catherine Bell Iranian?
(http://acn.waw.pl/celeb2/Catherine_Bell/photo/2.jpg)
-
Born in London. Her mother is from Iran, Dad is a Britisher.
(http://www.celebritycd.com/catherinebell/catherine06.jpg)
and just a very small nitpick, Iranians (Persians) are not Arabs.
-
To nitpick in return, isn't "Persia" a western term? ;)
-
I believe it has origins with Alexander the Great, based on a southern region of modern Iran.
>edit failed to post a picture
(http://www.celebjunction.com/actresses/c/catherine/enlarge/3.jpg)
-
Persians are in no way arabs. Except for this whole jew/muslim thing I think they hate arabs even more than they hate jews.
-
Hey... were trying to hijack here... :p
(http://online-shrine.net/catherine-bell/images/catherine-bell.jpg)
-
I thought in order to post in this thread you had to post a image too... did I get that wrong?
(http://www.redpointlife.com/joseph/photos/catherinebell4.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Metthinks Saw swings righty and lefty.
Uh? sorry Saur, I don't get this one.
PS: I guess all Iranian girls are ugly he?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/19_1090992354_jurgita.jpg)
-
women of all nations are beautiful this counts for the kids too.
i don't want anyone of them to die
maybe u can imagine if u have kids urself
the question u make isnt easy to answer
both the jews and arabs do bad things.
i feel more with the jews because i'm western
but if u look at the history u can see the jews started the terror.
but they been terrorized before that (nazi's)
i can understand both standpoints.
unfortunaly this makes that it will never stop.
hortlund ur just acting very simple minded.
-
I've visited both Israeli and Arab farming villages. Care to guess which one was surrounded by concertina wire and guarded by tanks dug in on both flanks? Or would you like to guess which village felt it necessary to arm its school teachers?
How about guessing which village had an "insurgent" creep into a concrete electrical station one night and open fire on its citizens as they went to work the next morning.
How many of us, whether we have pro-or-anti-Arab/Israeli leanings live in a community under constant threat of attack?
Heard an Arab/American expert on the Middle East ask the following question during a speech given to an audience attending a meeting on Middle Eastern politics; "How much sense does it make for a Muslim who lives in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Indonesia or Libya to say that the single largest concern in their lives is what a small group of people in a tiny country with their backs to the Mediterranean are doing?"
-
I've visited both Israeli and Arab farming villages. Care to guess which one was surrounded by concertina wire and guarded by tanks dug in on both flanks?
Shuckins I'm quite sure also Palestinians would gladly protect their villages and cities with tanks, helicopters and chitload of artillery against Israeli tanks, helicopters and bulldozers but there's just one problem: They don't have anything to put in except old pickup trucks...
hmm my guess is you really didn't think much before you posted that ?
-
Originally posted by Saintaw
Can't see their faces in the top picture, how can I compare?
probably just as well even though a friend of mine is married to a Lebanese girl that simply takes your breath away. She enters a room and all heads turn to her.
-
About Iran, Persia and Arabs
The region of Iran today was once ruled by semitic races like Assyrians, Elamites, Babylonians and so on.
The Assyrians once crippled the Elamite Empire and killing most of their population. That was nothing new in the region - but during the same time the iranian people were marching from north into the region of today-Iran.
They simply filled the elamite vacuum which was caused by the assyrians and assimilated the elamites.
The old capital city of the Elamites, Susa, became later one of the three capital cities of the Achaemenid Empire of the iranian Kings of Kurosh or Dariavush.
Persians were one of the iranian peoples - like the Medes who dominated the Iranians first.
While the iranians never used "Persia" as a term of their empire the ancient greeks called them so, cause in their point of view the Persians ruled the Iranians.
The Irans simply made two definitions: Iran and Aniran - the one of Iran and all the others not of Iran.
If you translate Iran it means "Land of the Aryans" and aryans has no of the nonsense superhuman meaning of the Nazis like white, blond, blueeyes and so on.
The title of the iranian kings was Shahinshah Aryamer - King of the Kings and Light of the Aryans. Also the last Shah had this title which was created in the days of Cyrus the Great.
1921 Iran - which was always called Persia by outsiders - changed officially its name to Iran.
But to call Iran Persia is so if you would call the USA "Texas" just because the ruling person is from this province. ;)
One other mistake which is often made, is that people call iranians arabs. If you ever want to insult an Iranian or try to get problems in Iran, tell an Iranian an Arab and wait for the reaction :)
You can also make a thumbs-up-sign which means in Iran the same like the middelfinger-sign-up here :)
Beside the racial difference (Arabs are members of the semitic race - and Iranian members of the indo-german-race) there are great cultural and religious differences between Arabs and Iranian. The hateful relationship is mainly a result of the arab conquest of Iran, when the islamic hordes destroyed the sassanid iranian dynasty.
While other nations in the region - like the egyptians and syrians - accepted to become assimilated, gave up their language and become arabs the iranians fought a bitter and long war against the arabs to avoid to become arabs.
It was forbidden to speak or write in Farsi - the iranian language, but the poets of iran saved the iranian language. The book Shahname of the poet Firdausi is not only an interesting story but saved the iranian language. So Iran wasnt assimilated, didnt become a member of the arab family and finally the arabs were kicked out of Iran. And so the iranian people still today celebrate their poets - you will find in every city in Iran a statue of one of these historical persons.
Iran also changed the new islamic religion and took the shiite Islam as national religion instead of the sunnite Islam of the arab nations. The exeptions are Bahrein - an arab country with shiite majority which was 200 ago iranian territory and of course Iraq which has a shiite majority, concentrated to the southeast of Iraq.
Exactly the region which has once been iranian territory with the old capital city Ktesiphon of the destroyed sassanid Empire near Bagdad.
The arabs called the shiites heretics (and likewise) so there were also bitter wars fought because of this reason. (remember North Ireland and the catholic/protestant-fanatics - seems that humans act everywhere irrational if they get a chance to).
An intersting fact of the iranian shiite Islam is that there are many elements of the old iranian religion of the sassanid empire integrated in the shiite islam. Even the iranian mullahs and ajatollahs of today wear the robes in the style of the old pre-islamic iranian priests.
How the iranians hate arabs could be seen when the arab Saddam attacked Iran. Iran was in that time in the middle of inner political fightings. It was the time when the Shah was deposed and his terror-regime was replaced by the one of Chomeini and his Mullahs.
But when the news arrived that arab hordes were again entering iranian territory these fights ended and all concentrated in fighting the arab enemy.
So :
1. Persia is a province of Iran, called Fars.
2. Iranians are not Arabs.
PS: My english is not good cause its the 3rd or 4th language I learned - so I am sure that I made some funny mistakes. Have fun :D
-
Your written English is quite good.
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by babek-
About Iran, Persia and Arabs
So :
1. Persia is a province of Iran, called Fars.
2. Iranians are not Arabs.
PS: My english is not good cause its the 3rd or 4th language I learned - so I am sure that I made some funny mistakes. Have fun :D
Chitori Babek! Thank you for the synopsis. Your written english is much better than my written Farsi.
-
Great question. But shouldnt he have been in the middle east,asking it to the people who live in the middle east?
And while he was at it he could ask the Israelis why with what is claimed to be one of the best trained and equipped militaries in the world why it would take a hellfire missile fired into a building with women and children living next door to kill one person when a single bullet from a sniper rifle could accomplish the exact same result without the collateral damage?
And the message would be much more powerful.
Originally posted by Shuckins
Heard an Arab/American expert on the Middle East ask the following question during a speech given to an audience attending a meeting on Middle Eastern politics; "How much sense does it make for a Muslim who lives in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Indonesia or Libya to say that the single largest concern in their lives is what a small group of people in a tiny country with their backs to the Mediterranean are doing?"
-
Thank you babek. Very enlightening.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
ask the Israelis why with what is claimed to be one of the best trained and equipped militaries in the world why it would take a hellfire missile fired into a building with women and children living next door to kill one person when a single bullet from a sniper rifle could accomplish the exact same result without the collateral damage?
Because the terrorist leaders move around so much and so often that it would be impossible to get a sniper into position. And because its not very damn useful to have a sniper rifle in ye average arab town where visibility might be 20-50 meters tops. And because the danger involved for the sniper team would be impossible to motivate, basically you would be sending in two Israelis alone into the most terrorist infested places on earth. There you would expect them to find a good hiding spot (easy in a town with a gazillion arabs running around) and you would expect them to be able to take the target out and then extract....yeah
Sounds like a job for Mr Black
-
Hmm...Staga....I thought it through quite well, thank you. The Israelis have found it necessary to protect their farming communities with military hardware since before 1948...BEFORE they had tanks, aircraft, etc. That was because Arab "insurgents" were infiltrating into these villages at night and killing as many Israelis, regardless of age or sex, as they could get their hands on. Even school children were not safe. This was during the time of British occupation when it was forbidden for Jewish settlers to possess firearms.
The Israelis aren't attacking Arab settlements along the Gaza strip and the Jordan River just to get their jollies. They are dealing with an enemy that will murder children in a school bus by suicide bombing. Negotiating with the "Palestinian Authority" endlessly has proven to be pointless. Hamaas and Hezbollah are organizations composed of murderous thugs who have no intentions of living in harmony with the Israelis. They, and many Palestinians, will not be content until Israel is destroyed and they have dipped their hands in Jewish blood.
Let Israel's military be overwhelmed and you'll see a bloodbath of epic proportions.
If you lived there, you would probably be just as stiff-necked about defense as the Israelis are. There's nothing like having your family threatened to put one's viewpoint in the proper perspective.
Dredlock, messengers of peace and moderation, such as the speaker I mentioned, do not live long in the Middle East. Prince Faisal was killed by followers of radical muslims because he took a stance favoring the Balfour Declaration, which would have allowed Jews and Palestinians to organize two independent states in Palestine.
The radicals would be perfectly willing to allow the Jews to live in Palestine, as long as they had no government of their own and were second-class citizens under an old-style Arab/Muslim government.
-
Originally posted by Shuckins
Hmm...Staga....I thought it through quite well, thank you. The Israelis have found it necessary to protect their farming communities with military hardware since before 1948...BEFORE they had tanks, aircraft, etc. That was because Arab "insurgents" were infiltrating into these villages at night and killing as many Israelis, regardless of age or sex, as they could get their hands on. Even school children were not safe. This was during the time of British occupation when it was forbidden for Jewish settlers to possess firearms.
You do understand that things like that happens when you're occupying a area other people were already living in don't you ?
Or are you saying Arabs begun attackin those innocents Israeli inside the Israel's borders just for the kicks ?
-
Let's all bow our heads in respect to the death of a great thread that started great and has sadly been hijacked by BB terrorist.....
:(
-
Originally posted by mosgood
Let's all bow our heads in respect to the death of a great thread that started great and has sadly been hijacked by BB terrorist.....
:(
:(
-
Staga,
Do you mean the so-called Palestinians? Be specific.
Are you referring to those whose ancestors lived there peaceably with Hassidic Jews for hundreds of years? Or are you referring to the groups of "Palestinians" who wandered into the area during the upheaval accompanying the break-up of the Turkish Empire...which consisted of Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and a dozen other ethnic groups that were not native to Palestine? These wanderers came to the area hungry for land and settled here during the British Mandate...and almost immediately began vieing for the land with Diaspora Jews who began to return to the area in the early 1900's.
Even today the Israelis have few problems from the Palestinians descended from the long-time residents of the land. The "Palestinians" who fled Israel after its formation, and who wandered the Mediterranean region with Arafat for decades, were those who believed the promises of the murderous Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who said that after the fighting was over they could return and have all the Jews land for themselves.
The only problem was, the Israelis did not lose that war...and these "refugees" were rendered landless and homeless. They could have been taken in by any number of other Muslim nations in the Middle East and the Mediterranean, but nobody wanted them on a permanent basis. Harboring a bitter hatred of the Israelis, they turned to wanton acts of terrorism.
Before you shed too many tears for them you would do well to remember that in the period after WWI there were prominent Muslim moderates who supported the establishment of a Jewish homeland. They were murdered or intimidated by Arab radicals, led by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who spent World War II as a guest of Hitler, for he had been run out of Palestine at the insistence of moderate Arab leaders. He helped organize an SS unit composed of east European Muslims. Wearing a fez to distinguish themselves from other SS units, this group of thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Christians and Jews in Yugoslavia. The hatred they generated remains until the present time. The "ethnic cleansings" that took place in the early 1990s in that region stems, in part, from those events.
The leader of that group, the aforesaid Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, played a large part in the establishment of Nazi-style governments in the Middle East, complete with gestapo style secret-police and racial hatred.
-
Thanx Babek. I understand much more now.
-
Rudi Bakithar (i think thats how her last names is spelled), that chick on CNN HeadLine news is from Iran. And she is a republician.
I think she is so cute. Her accent is sweet.
blah blah blah yea yea im in love with her.:)
-
Schuckins where are those tanks covering Israeli farms?
Is israel really so dangerous country that it has to guard its farmers with tanks and attack helicopters inside its borders?
-
Originally posted by Regular
Rudi Bakithar (i think thats how her last names is spelled), that chick on CNN HeadLine news is from Iran. And she is a republician.
I think she is so cute. Her accent is sweet.
blah blah blah yea yea im in love with her.:)
(http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/images/bakhtiar.rudi.jpg)
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/bakhtiar.rudi.html
Daaaammmn.
-
Staga,
Yes it IS that dangerous. Israel doesn't have tanks enough to cover every farming community, so they allocate them to those in the areas where the greatest danger of attack can be expected, especially along the northern and northeastern borders.
But even along the eastern and southern borders one finds barbed wire fences, armed guards at the gates, and armed citizens everywhere. This country requires three years of military service from all of its citizens for good reason.
It's amusing to me to hear personal-liberty conscious Americans whining about the new airport security measures being taken here in the U.S. These new measures are a pale imitation of those in place at Ben-Gurion Airport in Israel.
Israel is an armed camp. One finds soldiers and citizens carrying "not-so-concealed" weapons everywhere. They do not live this way by choice. Indeed, they have no choice in the matter. Their stiff-necked character has been largely shaped by the threat of terrorist and insurgent attacks. The Israelis are not alone in this struggle. They receive support from the Druze militia.
This no-nonsense approach to security has led to something of a paradox. Domestic violence and crime is extremely low. While one might find instances of a deranged worker opening fire on fellow workers here in the U.S., such a thing is virtually unknown in Israel. About 20 years ago two terrorists armed themselves with AK-47's, pistols and a buttload of ammunition stormed into an Israeli restaurant intent on killing as many Jews as possible. They managed to kill two before the other patrons overwhelmed them with personal weaponry. One was killed and the other captured. The survivor expressed outrage that so many of his intended victims had been armed.
The paradox is this...finding no helpless victims in Israel, the terrorists have changed their tactics from gun-n-run to suicide bombings. These terrorists are slipping into Israel hidden among the thousands of Palestinian workers who cross security checkpoints every day to go to jobs in the private sector. As security has tightened at these checkpoints, they have shifted to crossing into Jewish territory in the spaces between Palestinian and Israeli villages.
Thus, the reason for the "infamous" security wall that is under construction. This structure would not have become necessary if the first Bush administration and the Clinton administration had not insisted that the Israeli government allow Arafat's "Palestinians" to settle "next door."
Before that bit of idiocy Arafat had been considered one of the world's leading terrorists. Israeli hard-liners were against it, but many of the regular citizenry were so desperate for peace that they consented to it. Rabin's skin must have crawled when Clinton insisted that he shake Arafat's hand on the lawn of the White House.
Arafat is a disciple and "god-son" of Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini of Jerusalem (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem). Kicked out of Palestine by the British because of his radical violent politics, he was the wartime guest of Adolf Hitler and personally organized a Muslim SS unit. If you want to gain an understanding about the origins of much of the anti-Jewish violence in the Middle East, go to google and look him up.
It will be quite enlightening.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
-
Those pics do speak volumes.
-
Schuckins;
people should already know that when a country is practising Apartheid- and "Lebensraum" policies there may appear some problems with the people who lived in that area before these "settlers".
Nazies were kicked out from areas they occupied in WW2 and I hope one day same will happen for every country practising that policy.
Including Israel.
-
Originally posted by Flyboy
well i will choose the second pic. but i am BIASed :rolleyes: :D
What is "BIASed"?
-
Israeli occupation of the West Bank? Illegal villages. You've got a point there. But would you or I react with violence to such things? I don't think so. "Lebensraum"...that's a bit of a stretch. Many of these communities result from the government's open immigration policies. The Jewish immigrants that have arrived almost daily since 1948 are usually the less well-heeled, refugee types coming from countries where they have faced persecution or privation. Memories of the Holocaust are still quite strong, and so they find it hard to turn these immigrants away. This policy has caused Israel numerous problems over the years.
Try to remember that there ARE Palestinians who live and work within the Israeli zone of occupation. They are considered to be citizens of the state of Israel. That alone negates the accusations of "apartheid." Any separation that exists is almost solely the result of the violence and the security measures that have resulted from it.
It is unbecoming of westerners to who DO NOT have to live like this to point an accusatory finger at the Israelis who have to on a daily basis.
-
So you don't like word "Lebensraum"?
Well who would but that's just what it is:
Definition: [n] space sought for occupation by a nation whose population is expanding
Synonyms: living space
See Also: elbow room, room, way
Schuckins are those Palestinians who are living in occupied territories and are considered "citizens of Israel" and working in Israel able to vote ?
No ?
Are you surprised?
"That alone negates the accusations of "apartheid"
Errrrr... do you really think so?? Second class citizens, basically pariahs without right to vote... but not Apartheid?
What word would you use then ? petty apartheid or segregation ?
-
But would you or I react with violence to such things? I don't think so.
You wouldn't react with violence if you were invaded by a foreign power, subjected to military occupation for decades whilst they confiscated land to move their population onto?
You wouldn't resort to violence if you were taxed by the occupying power without hiaving any say where those taxes went, and indeed large parts of that tax revenue were earmarked solely for the benefit of the occupying power's citizens?
Many of these communities result from the government's open immigration policies.
No, they result from religious fanatics belief that the land belongs to them as Jews, and anyone who is not Jewish has no entitlement to the land, or what's on it.
It's the same belief that has led rabbis to authorise settlers to take Palestinian's crops at harvest time, because whatever grows in Israel belongs to Jews, not Arabs, even if the Arab planted the crops on land he owns and tended them throughout the year.
Try to remember that there ARE Palestinians who live and work within the Israeli zone of occupation. They are considered to be citizens of the state of Israel.
The vast majority of Palestinians who live and work in Israeli occupied territory are not considered citizens of Israel. They have no citizenship, and are subject to Israeli military law, not Israeli civilian law.
That alone negates the accusations of "apartheid."
If you are born to a Arab family in Hebron, you are not a citizen. If you are born to a Jewish family in Hebron, you are an Israeli citizen. That's apartheid.
Any separation that exists is almost solely the result of the violence and the security measures that have resulted from it.
The seperation exists because Israel defines itself as a Jewish state. Zionism's aim was the creation of a Jewish state. However, the land that Israel has expanded onto has an Arab majority. Overall, counting Israel proper and the land it occupies, there is no clear Jewish majority, and within a few years there will be an Arab majority.
That's why there's seperation and apartheid. Israel cannot remain a Jewish state and occupy the West Bank and give citizenship to the Palestinians. The religious zealots won't let them stop occupying the West Bank, so the Palestinians must continue to live under occupation.
-
Don't paint with a broad brush fellas. Not all Israelis are for occupation of other lands based on Biblical doctrine. The Israeli government has taken steps to force settlers in some of these illegal communities to move.
There are, indeed two sides to every story. Palestinian, or "Arab Israelis" have had their rights restricted over the years. This has often been justified by the Israeli government as necessary for national security.
This does not fully justify the treatment of Arab-Israelis over the years, but it goes far to explain that treatment. Arab-Israelis have second-class citizenship largely because the more violent factions of the Muslims of that region have routinely infiltrated that population to carry out violent attacks on the Jews.
There have been two intifadas. The Arab-Israelis as a group have not taken part in them. Whatever their greivances may be toward the Israeli government they have preferred to work through peaceable means to achieve change. Israel is divided into 120 voting districts. Any Israeli citizen, whether Jewish or Arab may take part in those elections as long as they do not belong to a group that espouses the destruction of Israel or denies its right to exist. There a number of Arab and Islamic political parties in Israel which have elected members to the Knesset. There is currently a move to transform Israel from a "Jewish democracy" to a "true democracy." This has been discussed by the Knesset on several occasions, but the wave of violence that has swept the country since Arafat and his "Palestinians" arrived has largely derailed the process.
The Israelis have their "religious fanatics" to be sure. Rabid Zionists are definitely part of the problem. Their racist fanaticism is equaled, if not surpassed by Hamaas and Hezbollah, who are stirring up much of the violence and suicide bombings in Israel. But the vast majority of their members are NOT Arab-Israelis. They are made up of Syrians and fanatical "Palestinian" Arabs. Much of the violence comes from radical groups operating out of the Gaza strip, from among groups of "Palestinians" that the Israelis have never granted citizenship to because of their radical beliefs and violence.
By the way, by definition an occupied territory is not considered to be a part of the occupying country, nor are its people considered to be citizens of that country. The Philippines were at one time an occupied territory of the United States, but its people were not considered to be citizens, nor were they allowed to vote in our elections. Would you have the Israelis grant voting citizenship to hostile and often murderous ethnic groups that have vowed publicly to destroy them?
The point of the matter is that large numbers of Arabs living in Israel have chosen not to use violence but are working through the political system by peaceable means to bring about meaningful change.
Your sympathies appear to lie with the radicals...or at least you attempt to justify their radicalism and violence.
-
Your sympathies appear to lie with the radicals...or at least you attempt to justify their radicalism and violence.
Huh?
I thought it was you who supported country which is practising apartheid and racial discrimination and occupying areas which belong to other countries.
-
Originally posted by Staga
occupying areas which belong to other countries.
And which countries would that be?
-
F*uck both sides of this conflict. Both sides are dead WRONG. And the fact that we took a side has caused us more trouble than that little strip of useless sandy beach is worth. And for what? I don't see how I benefit from it. But I and every supporter of Israel has become a target of the other side. F*uck em both.
-
Way to equate the terrorists with the Israelis you miserable f*ck
-
Lets see , not that I like them. But the UN stole the land from those people to "create" Israel. And then everybody expects the Palestinians to just get on with their lives and deal with it. I'm not taking either side and I didn't equate the Israelis with terrorists. All I said was
US support to Israel = US target by terrorists.
not a hard equation
Cut em lose I say. They can defend themselves
-
Sorry Staga, that may have been a bit strong.
However, before one takes Palestinian and Muslim complaints about Israeli policies too seriously, one needs to consider the history of the region from which these complaints originate.
Nearly every country in the Middle East has ethnic groups that are treated like second-class citizens. They are accorded this status based on a number of factors including, but not confined to, race and religion. Kurds and Shi-ites in Iraq, Christians in Egypt, Jews in Yemen, Christian tribes in Sudan (While African, it has extensive ties to the Middle East), just to name a few.
While Muslim critics of Israeli policies can cite numerous examples of Israeli "atrocities", they are taught about them in school after all, when it comes to their own history in this regard they have developed selective amnesia. This is quite similar to the recollections that the Japanese have about World War II: they remember quite well Hiroshima and Nagasaki but can tell you almost nothing about the atrocities committed in China, nor are they willing to admit that these events happened the way they are portrayed in western historical accounts.
How many of you are familiar with the Turkish massacre of Armenian civilians during World War I? More than one and a half million Armenians died. Despite extensive knowledge about these atrocities in the west and condemnation the U.S. and many European nations the Turks refuse to admit that they ever happened...and most of the Arab world follows suit.
-
Let's understand something here. There never has been a Palestinian nation. Period. There has never been a clearly defined Palestinian ethnic group; just a hodge-podge collection of immigrants and refugees who arrived in the area after World War I and began to settle among the indigent Arabs and Jews who had occupied Palestine for hundreds of years.
The land from which Israel was created was seized from the Turkish Empire after World War I as part of a "mandate." The British were to stabilize the area and formulate a plan for creating an independent nation, or nations from it.
Later, after World War II, the U.N gave it's support to a plan to create TWO nations out of this mandate; one Jewish, the other Palestinian. The U.N. did not seize the land from anyone. Moderate Arab leaders who would have supported this plan were promptly shouted down, intimidated, and in some cases murdered. Much of the land that the Jews occupied was bought by them from the Arabs who owned it. These Arabs were desperately poor and welcomed the money the sales brought. The first seizures of land took place during the war of 1948, when many "Palestinians" fled the scenes of fighting under the urging of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who promised that they could return after all the Jews were killed (Kill them...Kill them all!) and seize all of their land.
The Israelis may not be completely blameless in this struggle...but neither are they the bogey-men that Palestinian propaganda makes them out to be.
-
Disputes - international:
Definition Field Listing
West Bank and Gaza Strip are Israeli-occupied with current status subject to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement - permanent status to be determined through further negotiation; Golan Heights is Israeli-occupied (Lebanon claims the Shab'a Farms area of Golan Heights)
btw that's from CIA world factbook so my guess is they did enough research to get that conclusion...
-
btw in that area no'one is innocent; not Palestinians but neither are Israelis.
Thing is Israel is USA's ally and only USA can make them sit on a same table with Palestinians and start negotiations how to cool down that part of this *****g planet; they both share the guilt of some recent happenings around this planet.
Problem is that USA has used its veto in a SC a bit too often and so the situationin middle east has been going on for years and I'm afraid soon is the harvest time. Or maybe it was already.
-
"...they are Israeli occupied...with permanent status to be determined through further negotiations..."
That proves that these are occupied areas largely under Israeli control...they are under no obligation to grant citizenship to its population. The Gaza Strip is occupied by the Israeli military, for Israel was given the responsibility of maintaining order and security. Other powers were transfered to the Palestinian authority under the Israel-PLO DOP Agreement. The residents of the Gaza Strip are NOT citizens of Israel. The attempts to organize the Gaza Strip are summed up by the following statement from the CIA world fact book:
"Direct negotiations to determine the permanent status of Gaza and the West Bank that began in December 1999 after a three year hiatus, were derailed by a second intifadah that broke out in September 2000. The resulting widespread violence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Israel's military response, and instability within the Palestinian Authority continue to undermine progress toward a permanent agreement."
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Choose carefully...
Arabs:
(http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/hamas%20suicide%20bombers%20march.jpg)
IDF:
(http://www.azexarms.com/images/gallery/IDFbabes.jpg)
Having seeing the IDF girls IRL, I'd say IDF :)
-vector
-
Both groups are targets...but one group is not hiding their faces.
-
Yep, also one group isn't using MBTs, APCs, Huey Cobras, Hellfires and caterpillars etc but good, old fashion AK-47s, Katjushas and Trinitrotoluen.
-
Woot! Great post Babek, kudos.
Of the pics... I dunno, just me, but none of those girls really float my boat.
Well, maybe the one on the far left but only because in some small way she reminds me of Lyndy England or however ya spell it, and I get woodage just thinking about Lindy.