Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: PhilSmith on July 27, 2004, 10:53:10 PM
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Would anybody else mind seeing a helicopter added into the game somewhere? I'm not sure what it could really be used for, other than say... getting that pesky general to some out-of-the-way installation :aok But other than that I can't think of a really good reason for one other than I just love flying helicopters.
Or how 'bout an autogyro?
Maybe even add some pontoons to the helo, so that that aforementioned general has to wait for his U-boat to actually "arrive".
Okay, okay, I've just got whirlybirds on the brain...
Cheers
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Choppers would be great anti-tank(If there were anti-tank choppers :confused: ). Not up on WWII choppers.
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where there any helicopters in ww2? :confused: never heard of them.
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Yeah, U.S. used a few helos towards the end of WW2. Dont think they shot anyone, but they did rescue some troops.
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Which helos would that be Suntracker. AFAIK only the Germans had operational helicopters during WWII, and they mostly operated as recon/S&R in their navy.
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Sikorsky R-4 (1942). The Sikorsky (model S-47) R-4 (British name Hoverfly MK I), was the first mass-produced military helicopter. The XR-4 (VS-316A), first flown in 14 January 1942, had a fabric covered tubular steel fuselage. Model numbers ranged from A through C. The YR-4B was a two-place side-by-side, observation, reconnaissance, and MedEvac helicopter, with one external litter. The R-4 was first used in combat in May 1944. The model R4-B entered service in 1945. Many were fitted with twin pontoons for use aboard ships or over water. A YR-4, equipped with pontoons, made the first helicopter deck landing on the S.S. Bunker Hill on May 6, 1943. An Army YR-4B performed the first military/MedEvac rescue behind enemy lines in Burma on April 25-26, 1944. Taxed-to-the-limit, powered by only a 185 hp Warner R550-1 engine, it required the YR-4B pilot four trips over a two day period to rescue the downed Stinson L-1 Vigilant pilot and three British casualties. R-4Bs were used by the U.S. Army Air Force, U.S. Navy (as the HNS-1), U.S. Coast Guard, as well as the British Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy (as the Hoverfly MK I). The R-4B was replaced by the versatile Sikorsky (model S-51) R-5D shortly after World War II.
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Sikorsky R-6 (1943). The Sikorsky (model S-49) R-6 (British name Hoverfly MK II) was first flown on October 15, 1943. A refinement of the R-4, the R-6 (VS-316B) featured a larger, improved, streamlined metal fuselage with improved pilot visibility. This was a joint U.S. Army/U.S. Navy program. It had the same rotor and transmission as the R-4, but a more powerful 245 hp Franklin O-405-9 engine. It had a crew of two, seated side-by-side. It was equipped with a high-frequency radio. In the MedEvac role it could be equipped with two external capsules to carry litters. Bomb racks could be installed to carry 650 lbs. of bombs externally. The R-6A could also be equipped with pontoons for use over water.
The R-6A was the first USAAF helicopter to serve in combat in May 1944. The initial XR-6 and all five XR-6As were produced by Sikorsky. All R-6As were produced in 1944 and 1945 by Nash-Kelvinator under license to Sikorsky. The R-6A was used primarily by the U.S. Navy (as the HOS-1) and the U.S. Coast Guard, as well as the Royal Navy (as the Hoverfly MK II). Models A thru C were powered by a Pratt & Whitney R-985-AN-5 450 hp engine. The D model was powered by a Pratt & Whitney R-1340 600 hp engine.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist.htm#Igor
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That R-6A that saw action in 1944 must have been one of the XR-6A prototypes since the R-6A didn't enter production until 1945, and the first squadron with R-6A's wasn't formed until 1946.
The R-4B on the other hand was in service from mid-late 1944, and 100 units were built.
The Flettner Kolibri was in service in 1942 to the end of the war, but few were made.
I think it is safe to say that WWII helicopters weren't very useful.
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they where usefull but they didn't knew its potential yet.
:)
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i find it alll hard to belive without any pictures :o :D
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No I don't think so Bug. Apart from Korea style medevac duty and some use in the navy there was little these early helicopters could do that the Storch or Bird Dog couldn't do better.
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Sikorsky built the first six of the helicopters (one XR-6 and five XR-6As), in addition to 219 R-6As that were produced in 1944 and 1945 by Nash-Kelvinator under a Sikorsky License.f
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap30.htm
(http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Hoverfly_colour.jpg)
(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap30.jpg)
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"Five trials "XR-6As" with a 240 horsepower Franklin engine were built by Sikorsky, and 26 similar "YR-6As" were built by the Nash-Kelvinator company. Nash Kelvinator also built 193 production "R-6As", beginning in 1945, with 36 going to the US Navy as the "HOS-1" and 40 going to the British RAF as the "Hoverfly II". Like the R-4, the R-6 could be fitted with pontoons, and like the R-4, the R-6's service life was short, particularly because its engine proved unreliable."
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avheli.html#m6
Incredibly, the Sikorsky homepage doesn't even mention this helicopter.
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The helicopters where so limited in weight during WW2 they were pretty much useless. On one rescue mission a Helicopter had to rescue 6 men from a mission somewhere in the pacific. It took him something like 3 hours because he could only take 1 man at a time due to weight restrictions.
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so what was the first mass produced helicopter?
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One of the early Sikorsky's. S-51 perhaps? (unless the R-4 or R-6 low numbers count as mass produced)
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I feel helicopters are not needed. I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War. Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.
What could we possibly use a helicopter for? The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.
We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters. Could use some more bombers and vehicles.
Canaris
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Originally posted by Canaris
I feel helicopters are not needed. I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War. Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.
What could we possibly use a helicopter for? The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.
We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters. Could use some more bombers and vehicles.
Canaris
THINK KOREA??? ever watch M+A+S+H
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Simshell, ive watched MASH a very good shot. disappointed it ended.
Yes i know they were used in Korea for taking casualties back to hospitals. But the helicopters grew their fame in Vietnam. Helicopters in Vietnam were used to asssist ground troops, bring troops to the frontlines and take casualties to the hospitals.
Helicopters did not gain fame in WW2, that is the point im trying to make to point out we dont need helicopters in AH.
Canaris
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On top of that, helicopters didnt start to take on a noticable offensive roll until well after WW2...
So if we got whirlies, what exactly would you do with them?
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only thing that comes to mind would be taking off from a CV fleet and droping troops or landing them in the town:D
but i would rather see a PBY before a helo
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I feel helicopters are not needed.
Needed? This is a game, nothing is needed. But helicopters would bring alot of fun to AH2. Just the helo flight model itself would make them fun.
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how about some jetpacks
:rolleyes:
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Put two rockets on them, give them 1 7.62 mg on them with a 15 deg up, down, left and right arc, and give it a horrible GPH rating.
Perk it to about 150.
It's function: to stop underage drinking
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I don't think there should be heli's, the first successful helicopter flight was in 1941.
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Hot stuff....
(http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4401-bilder/hubschrauber-dateien/fl282-1.jpg)
Look at the twin rotor setup. That actually seems kind of ingenious. Judging by modern helicopters, I guess it isn't.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
how about some jetpacks
:rolleyes:
And B-92s with Nooks! B-92s won the war! And JaggedPanthars! And ... and ... Sabarjets! Sabarjets won the war!
(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/rkteer.jpg)
(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/rock02.jpg)
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Originally posted by hawker238
Hot stuff....
(http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4401-bilder/hubschrauber-dateien/fl282-1.jpg)
Look at the twin rotor setup. That actually seems kind of ingenious. Judging by modern helicopters, I guess it isn't.
There are more modern helicopters with similar rotor setups, but most use the classic Sikorsky setup or coaxial rotors nowadays.
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Originally posted by GScholz
There are more modern helicopters with similar rotor setups, but most use the classic Sikorsky setup or coaxial rotors nowadays.
Really? I've never seen two rotors next to each other. Are you talking about a counter-rotating design, such as the Kamov bureau? That's a bit different.
edit: Duuuuuuuuuh, co-axial. Sorry, wasn't thinking.
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I feel that someone want to bring Apache+hellfires in AH 8-/
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The Kolibri's rotor setup is called an intermeshing twin-rotor and it is a rare setup, but not unique.
(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/helicopter/h43.jpg)
(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/helicopter/kmax.jpg)
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Sorry,but if you like helicoptors,your in the wrong sim.I know they did see limited use,but only in medivac op's and since we have no use for a medivac plane,I can see no reason for a Helicoptor.
If your into Helicoptors,you should be looking at a vietnam or Korean war sim,or later.
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I think i saw on the history channel about the american WW2 helicaptors where used as scouts, search and rescue, and artillary spotting. and the japs had an, oh i forgot how to spell it an autojiro. part plane part heli. Used them for artillary spotting and sub scouting. and some had death charges on them. Be cool to see an autojiro.
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Autogyro and depth charges.
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Thanks for the pics GScholz. :)
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Originally posted by Tails
On top of that, helicopters didnt start to take on a noticable offensive roll until well after WW2...
So if we got whirlies, what exactly would you do with them?
Out turn furballers ;)
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we shudnet hav autoogiroos they aren't really good but death charges are realy good though we shoud have them deathchargers for submaroons but fisrt we need to git soem subs.
anbd arlos rite too we need B-92s! but no nooks we coud get them with deathcharges too!
RTR
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You're welcome Hawker. :)
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KA-1
-The Japanese government, after acquiring and testing a Kellett KD-1A autogyro in 1939, turned the aircraft over to the Kayaba Industrial Co, which subsequently built an inline-engined version of the aircraft as the Ka.1. This was powered by a 240hp Kobe engine (licence version of the German Argus As.10C); the first Ka.1 was flown on 26 May 1941 and eventually some two hundred and forty aircraft of this type were built. They were employed during World War 2 by the Imperial Japanese Army for artillery observation and cooperation duties, and by the Navy for coastal or carrier-based antisubmarine patrol carrying two 60kg bombs or depth charges. One Ka.1 was modified for trials with small auxiliary rockets at the tips of the rotor blades.
(http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/foto/kayaba_ka-1.gif)
-SLICER
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Originally posted by Flyboy
where there any helicopters in ww2? :confused: never heard of them.
i think that the first combat helo's wernt used until the marines during the korean war:)
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I got dibs on being Col Blake, who wants to be BJ or Hot Lips Mahoney?
"'cuz suicide is painless....."
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Can I have a Cobra? ;)
Originally posted by Canaris
I feel helicopters are not needed. I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War. Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.
What could we possibly use a helicopter for? The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.
We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters. Could use some more bombers and vehicles.
Canaris