Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: PhilSmith on July 27, 2004, 10:53:10 PM

Title: Helicopters?
Post by: PhilSmith on July 27, 2004, 10:53:10 PM
Would anybody else mind seeing a helicopter added into the game somewhere?  I'm not sure what it could really be used for, other than say... getting that pesky general to some out-of-the-way installation :aok   But other than that I can't think of a really good reason for one other than I just love flying helicopters.  

Or how 'bout an autogyro?  

Maybe even add some pontoons to the helo, so that that aforementioned general has to wait for his U-boat to actually "arrive".

Okay, okay, I've just got whirlybirds on the brain...


Cheers
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: OOZ662 on July 28, 2004, 03:27:51 AM
Choppers would be great anti-tank(If there were anti-tank choppers :confused: ). Not up on WWII choppers.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Flyboy on July 28, 2004, 04:19:49 AM
where there any helicopters in ww2? :confused: never heard of them.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SunTracker on July 28, 2004, 05:14:52 AM
Yeah, U.S. used a few helos towards the end of WW2.  Dont think they shot anyone, but they did rescue some troops.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 06:09:29 AM
Which helos would that be Suntracker. AFAIK only the Germans had operational helicopters during WWII, and they mostly operated as recon/S&R in their navy.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SunTracker on July 28, 2004, 06:15:13 AM
Quote
Sikorsky R-4 (1942). The Sikorsky (model S-47) R-4 (British name Hoverfly MK I), was the first mass-produced military helicopter. The XR-4 (VS-316A), first flown in 14 January 1942, had a fabric covered tubular steel fuselage. Model numbers ranged from A through C. The YR-4B was a two-place side-by-side, observation, reconnaissance, and MedEvac helicopter, with one external litter. The R-4 was first used in combat in May 1944. The model R4-B entered service in 1945. Many were fitted with twin pontoons for use aboard ships or over water. A YR-4, equipped with pontoons, made the first helicopter deck landing on the S.S. Bunker Hill on May 6, 1943. An Army YR-4B performed the first military/MedEvac rescue behind enemy lines in Burma on April 25-26, 1944. Taxed-to-the-limit, powered by only a 185 hp Warner R550-1 engine, it required the YR-4B pilot four trips over a two day period to rescue the downed Stinson L-1 Vigilant pilot and three British casualties. R-4Bs were used by the U.S. Army Air Force, U.S. Navy (as the HNS-1), U.S. Coast Guard, as well as the British Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy (as the Hoverfly MK I). The R-4B was replaced by the versatile Sikorsky (model S-51) R-5D shortly after World War II.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SunTracker on July 28, 2004, 06:31:35 AM
Quote
Sikorsky R-6 (1943). The Sikorsky (model S-49) R-6 (British name Hoverfly MK II) was first flown on October 15, 1943. A refinement of the R-4, the R-6 (VS-316B) featured a larger, improved, streamlined metal fuselage with improved pilot visibility. This was a joint U.S. Army/U.S. Navy program. It had the same rotor and transmission as the R-4, but a more powerful 245 hp Franklin O-405-9 engine. It had a crew of two, seated side-by-side. It was equipped with a high-frequency radio. In the MedEvac role it could be equipped with two external capsules to carry litters. Bomb racks could be installed to carry 650 lbs. of bombs externally. The R-6A could also be equipped with pontoons for use over water.
The R-6A was the first USAAF helicopter to serve in combat in May 1944.  The initial XR-6 and all five XR-6As were produced by Sikorsky. All R-6As were produced in 1944 and 1945 by Nash-Kelvinator under license to Sikorsky. The R-6A was used primarily by the U.S. Navy (as the HOS-1) and the U.S. Coast Guard, as well as the Royal Navy (as the Hoverfly MK II). Models A thru C were powered by a Pratt & Whitney R-985-AN-5 450 hp engine. The D model was powered by a Pratt & Whitney R-1340 600 hp engine.


http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist.htm#Igor
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 09:44:17 AM
That R-6A that saw action in 1944 must have been  one of the XR-6A prototypes since the R-6A didn't enter production until 1945, and the first squadron with R-6A's wasn't formed until 1946.

The R-4B on the other hand was in service from mid-late 1944, and 100 units were built.


The Flettner Kolibri was in service in 1942 to the end of the war, but few were made.

I think it is safe to say that WWII helicopters weren't very useful.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 28, 2004, 09:54:56 AM
they where usefull but they didn't knew its potential yet.
:)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Flyboy on July 28, 2004, 10:16:54 AM
i find it alll hard to belive without any pictures :o  :D
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 10:19:35 AM
No I don't think so Bug. Apart from Korea style medevac duty and some use in the navy there was little these early helicopters could do that the Storch or Bird Dog couldn't do better.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SunTracker on July 28, 2004, 10:45:23 AM
Quote
Sikorsky built the first six of the helicopters (one XR-6 and five XR-6As), in addition to 219 R-6As that were produced in 1944 and 1945 by Nash-Kelvinator under a Sikorsky License.f


http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap30.htm

(http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Hoverfly_colour.jpg)

(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap30.jpg)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 11:11:09 AM
"Five trials "XR-6As" with a 240 horsepower Franklin engine were built by Sikorsky, and 26 similar "YR-6As" were built by the Nash-Kelvinator company. Nash Kelvinator also built 193 production "R-6As", beginning in 1945, with 36 going to the US Navy as the "HOS-1" and 40 going to the British RAF as the "Hoverfly II". Like the R-4, the R-6 could be fitted with pontoons, and like the R-4, the R-6's service life was short, particularly because its engine proved unreliable."

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avheli.html#m6


Incredibly, the Sikorsky homepage doesn't even mention this helicopter.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: B17Skull12 on July 28, 2004, 11:15:34 AM
The helicopters where so limited in weight during WW2 they were pretty much useless.  On one rescue mission a Helicopter had to rescue 6 men from a mission somewhere in the pacific.  It took him something like 3 hours because he could only take 1 man at a time due to weight restrictions.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Flyboy on July 28, 2004, 11:32:14 AM
so what was the first mass produced helicopter?
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on July 28, 2004, 11:34:00 AM
One of the early Sikorsky's. S-51 perhaps? (unless the R-4 or R-6 low numbers count as mass produced)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Canaris on July 28, 2004, 11:40:45 AM
I feel helicopters are not needed.  I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War.  Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.  

 What could we possibly use a helicopter for?  The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.

  We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters.  Could use some more bombers and vehicles.  


Canaris
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: simshell on July 28, 2004, 02:51:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Canaris
I feel helicopters are not needed.  I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War.  Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.  

 What could we possibly use a helicopter for?  The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.

  We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters.  Could use some more bombers and vehicles.  


Canaris




THINK KOREA???  ever watch M+A+S+H
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Canaris on July 28, 2004, 03:14:48 PM
Simshell, ive watched MASH a very good shot. disappointed it ended.  

  Yes i know they were used in Korea for taking casualties back to hospitals.  But the helicopters grew their fame in Vietnam.  Helicopters in Vietnam were used to asssist ground troops, bring troops to the frontlines and take casualties to the hospitals.  

  Helicopters did not gain fame in WW2, that is the point im trying to make to point out we dont need helicopters in AH.

Canaris
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Tails on July 28, 2004, 03:37:16 PM
On top of that, helicopters didnt start to take on a noticable offensive roll until well after WW2...

So if we got whirlies, what exactly would you do with them?
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: simshell on July 28, 2004, 04:41:41 PM
only thing that comes to mind would be taking off from a CV fleet and droping troops or landing them in the town:D


but i would rather see a PBY before a helo
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SunTracker on July 28, 2004, 09:28:27 PM
Quote
I feel helicopters are not needed.


Needed?  This is a game, nothing is needed.  But helicopters would bring alot of fun to AH2.  Just the helo flight model itself would make them fun.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 29, 2004, 12:56:56 AM
how about some jetpacks
:rolleyes:
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: RTSigma on July 29, 2004, 03:08:02 AM
Put two rockets on them, give them 1 7.62 mg on them with a 15 deg up, down, left and right arc, and give it a horrible GPH rating.

Perk it to about 150.

It's function: to stop underage drinking
Title: No Heli's.
Post by: Turbo11 on August 03, 2004, 10:52:30 PM
I don't think there should be heli's, the first successful helicopter flight was in 1941.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: hawker238 on August 03, 2004, 11:36:51 PM
Hot stuff....

(http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4401-bilder/hubschrauber-dateien/fl282-1.jpg)

Look at the twin rotor setup.  That actually seems kind of ingenious.  Judging by modern helicopters, I guess it isn't.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Arlo on August 03, 2004, 11:53:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
how about some jetpacks
:rolleyes:


And B-92s with Nooks! B-92s won the war! And JaggedPanthars! And ... and ... Sabarjets! Sabarjets won the war!

(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/rkteer.jpg)

(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/rock02.jpg)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on August 04, 2004, 01:06:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hawker238
Hot stuff....

(http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4401-bilder/hubschrauber-dateien/fl282-1.jpg)

Look at the twin rotor setup.  That actually seems kind of ingenious.  Judging by modern helicopters, I guess it isn't.


There are more modern helicopters with similar rotor setups, but most use the classic Sikorsky setup or coaxial rotors nowadays.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: hawker238 on August 04, 2004, 11:10:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
There are more modern helicopters with similar rotor setups, but most use the classic Sikorsky setup or coaxial rotors nowadays.


Really?  I've never seen two rotors next to each other.  Are you talking about a counter-rotating design, such as the Kamov bureau?  That's a bit different.

edit: Duuuuuuuuuh, co-axial.  Sorry, wasn't thinking.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Hades55 on August 05, 2004, 12:26:36 AM
I feel that someone want to bring Apache+hellfires in AH  8-/
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on August 05, 2004, 12:27:43 AM
The Kolibri's rotor setup is called an intermeshing twin-rotor and it is a rare setup, but not unique.



(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/helicopter/h43.jpg)

(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/helicopter/kmax.jpg)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: scott123 on August 05, 2004, 03:57:40 AM
Sorry,but if you like helicoptors,your in the wrong sim.I know they did see limited use,but only in medivac op's and since we have no use for a medivac plane,I can see no reason for a Helicoptor.

 If your into Helicoptors,you should be looking at a vietnam or Korean war sim,or later.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Klum25th on August 06, 2004, 10:50:41 PM
I think i saw on the history channel about the american WW2 helicaptors where used as scouts, search and rescue, and artillary spotting. and the japs had an, oh i forgot how to spell it an autojiro. part plane part heli. Used them for artillary spotting and sub scouting. and some had death charges on them. Be cool to see an autojiro.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on August 07, 2004, 02:55:33 AM
Autogyro and depth charges.
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: hawker238 on August 07, 2004, 04:18:27 PM
Thanks for the pics GScholz. :)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Rino on August 07, 2004, 04:22:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tails
On top of that, helicopters didnt start to take on a noticable offensive roll until well after WW2...

So if we got whirlies, what exactly would you do with them?


     Out turn furballers ;)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: RTR on August 07, 2004, 04:56:00 PM
we shudnet hav autoogiroos they aren't really good but death charges are realy good though we shoud have them deathchargers for submaroons but fisrt we need to git soem subs.
anbd arlos rite too we need B-92s! but no nooks we coud get them with deathcharges too!

RTR
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: GScholz on August 07, 2004, 05:22:23 PM
You're welcome Hawker. :)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: SLCR on August 09, 2004, 02:17:47 PM
KA-1
 

-The Japanese government, after acquiring and testing a Kellett KD-1A autogyro in 1939, turned the aircraft over to the Kayaba Industrial Co, which subsequently built an inline-engined version of the aircraft as the Ka.1. This was powered by a 240hp Kobe engine (licence version of the German Argus As.10C); the first Ka.1 was flown on 26 May 1941 and eventually some two hundred and forty aircraft of this type were built. They were employed during World War 2 by the Imperial Japanese Army for artillery observation and cooperation duties, and by the Navy for coastal or carrier-based antisubmarine patrol carrying two 60kg bombs or depth charges. One Ka.1 was modified for trials with small auxiliary rockets at the tips of the rotor blades.

(http://avia.russian.ee/vertigo/foto/kayaba_ka-1.gif)


-SLICER
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: 68DevilM on August 09, 2004, 02:37:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
where there any helicopters in ww2? :confused: never heard of them.


i think that the first combat helo's wernt used until the marines during the korean war:)
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: RTSigma on August 09, 2004, 06:31:22 PM
I got dibs on being Col Blake, who wants to be BJ or Hot Lips Mahoney?

"'cuz suicide is painless....."
Title: Helicopters?
Post by: Muddie on August 11, 2004, 02:57:09 PM
Can I have a Cobra? ;)




Quote
Originally posted by Canaris
I feel helicopters are not needed.  I would rather see some more early war fighters than a helicopter which didnt grab its fame till the Vietnam War.  Yes it was used in WW2 but not to an extent as it was used in Vietnam.  

 What could we possibly use a helicopter for?  The fighters in AH would have more speed and guns than the helicopter so basically its good as dead.

  We need some more early war fighters, definately no more late war fighters.  Could use some more bombers and vehicles.  


Canaris