Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on July 31, 2004, 03:19:59 AM
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(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040730/i/r3493219289.jpg)
"Earlier, their bus convoy pulled over at a Wendy's fast food restaurant for a photo opportunity lunch that provided an awkward moment.
Spotting a group of US Marines, Kerry, who has made his Vietnam War service a cornerstone of his campaign, went over to chat. The Marines, who all turned out to be staunch Bush reporters, were not impressed.
"He imposed on us and I disagree with him coming over here shaking our hands," one of them told reporters afterwards. "I'm 100 percent against" Kerry, he said. "We support our commander-in-chief 100 percent."
From AFP (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040730/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_democrats_040730232637).
Semper Fi Marines!
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Talk about an awkward moment.
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Yeah, these be republican Marines. He should have sought out the Democratic Marine Corps.
;)
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Semper fi, Hortlund!
:rofl
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Originally posted by 212
Yeah, these be republican Marines. He should have sought out the Democratic Marine Corps.
;)
Yes.
All three of them. :)
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Originally posted by 212
Yeah, these be republican Marines. He should have sought out the Democratic Marine Corps.
;)
Doesn't the "dont ask dont tell" policy make it impossible to find the democrat marines?
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Wtf is a country where the military can give a political opinion ?
Plus they lack the minimal courage to say Kerry to go away but have the "courage" to speak to the journalists ?
"He imposed on us and I disagree with him coming over here shaking our hands," one of them told reporters afterwards.
Truly a shame , they don't respect their uniform nor themselve.
I had an highter opinion of the Marines.
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Originally posted by straffo
Wtf is a country where the military can give a political opinion ?
Plus they lack the minimal courage to say Kerry to go away but have the "courage" to speak to the journalists ?
Truly a shame , they don't respect their uniform nor themselve.
I had an highter opinion of the Marines.
My mom was a cruel child, she told me she would take a frog and squash it between 2 bricks for sport;
I nevah understood till now.
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Originally posted by straffo
Wtf is a country where the military can give a political opinion ?
Plus they lack the minimal courage to say Kerry to go away but have the "courage" to speak to the journalists ?
Truly a shame , they don't respect their uniform nor themselve.
I had an highter opinion of the Marines.
Ceratinly the French military never gave its opinion about France's political fortunes..
Thankfully these guys did...
(http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/parisliberation.gif)
And maybe, just maybe the Marines were being polite and respectful. But wait, you French wouldnt understand that...
Just for chits and giggles, imagine your response if those Marines HAD actually told Mr Ketchup to, uhhm, "shove it." You know you would be one of the first to bash them for being mindless brainwashed republiclown right wing crazies...
Go ahead, have your lower opinion of the US combat tropps...
(http://www.worldwar2database.com/photos/wwii420.jpg)
Stupid frog...
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Originally posted by straffo
Wtf is a country where the military can give a political opinion ?
Plus they lack the minimal courage to say Kerry to go away but have the "courage" to speak to the journalists ?
Truly a shame , they don't respect their uniform nor themselve.
I had an highter opinion of the Marines.
They are free to hold any opinion they want, and to give it when asked.
They are taught to be respectful and courteous. Even to people they despise.
You have no idea who or what they respect. You've never met them.
Your opinion of the United States Marine Corps is almost as irrelevant as your country. And the United Nations.
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Wonder if Bozo......... eeerrrr Kerry had his video cam handy? I`m sure he would want to go back after the marines had left and reenact the scene and portray himself as the hero as he did in Nam.
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I suppose GRUN posted yet another pict of some german soldier on the champ elysée ...
and captain moron make yet another clever post ?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/33_1091280514_yawn.gif)
You're so clever you didn't even read my post and tought it was a bash of the whole Marine corp.
When it was just a constat of the lack of courage of some Marines.
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who in the military would not be honored to meet a "war hero"?
LOL
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Originally posted by straffo
I suppose GRUN posted yet another pict of some german soldier on the champ elysée ...
and captain moron make yet another clever post ?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/33_1091280514_yawn.gif)
You're so clever you didn't even read my post and tought it was a bash of the whole Marine corp.
When it was just a constat of the lack of courage of some Marines.
Congratulations Straffo.
You've become such a moronic sissy that you have to publish your ignore list.
You've finally made it to the penultimate level of BBS dweebery.
I just knew you had it in you.
The best you have is name calling. Go play in the kiddie pool where you and your ilk belong.
Oh, and I read every word of your pitiful nonsensical drivel, twice. It proves that you are every bit as ignorant about the United States Marine Corps as you are about everything else you run your mouth about.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040730/i/r3493219289.jpg)
Semper Fi Marines!
You KNOW Kerry's saying "Where'd you get those ribbons? Did you know back in my day they were COMPLETELY interchangeable with medals? Remember that if you ever decide to toss them over a fence"
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Somebody tell straffo that I proudly posted pictures of US troops on the Champs Elyseys...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ceratinly the French military never gave its opinion about France's political fortunes..
Thankfully these guys did...
(http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/parisliberation.gif)
And maybe, just maybe the Marines were being polite and respectful. But wait, you French wouldnt understand that...
Just for chits and giggles, imagine your response if those Marines HAD actually told Mr Ketchup to, uhhm, "shove it." You know you would be one of the first to bash them for being mindless brainwashed republiclown right wing crazies...
Go ahead, have your lower opinion of the US combat tropps...
(http://www.worldwar2database.com/photos/wwii420.jpg)
Stupid frog...
Straffo...dont be a jerk
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Btw look at the picture of Kerry and that Marine.
An image says a thousand words, and that image really captures the relationship between Kerry and the US armed forces right now.
This picuture is really devastating for Kerry. Which is good.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Somebody tell straffo that I proudly posted pictures of US troops on the Champs Elyseys...
You don't have to have someone tell him. He knows what you posted. He's just so pitiful he feels the need to throw a little sissified tantrum and tell people who is on his ignore list. People who feel they must tell everyone who is on their ignore list almost always read it all anyway. They are just like little 5 year old children who put their hands over their ears and yell "LALALALALA" when someone says something they don't like and don't want to hear. A child only did that ONCE in my family. Never twice, the first lesson was enough.
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Yea it is funny. He puts me on his ignore list because of this thread, suppsedly without even seeing what I posted.
Heck for all he knew I could have been been cheering him on with a fiesty:
You go Girl!
But no, it was not to be. C'est la vie...
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Originally posted by Hortlund
B
This picuture is really devastating for Kerry. Which is good.
I dunno, the Marines are 'first to go, last to know'....maybe they just haven't seen the latest Zogby poll.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=849
The next time they see JK they just may have to salute :P
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You win some, you lose some. Can't blame Kerry for trying or the Marines for voicing their opinions.
Finger pointing or, heaven forbid, tapping someone's chest is a very provoking gesture. Kerry's advisors ought to tell him to never do that.
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You're so clever you didn't even read my post and tought it was a bash of the whole Marine corp.
You're a Liar straffo.
"I had an highter opinion of the Marines."
Words mean something, didnt Rush Linbaugh teach you anything?
Idiot...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Somebody tell straffo that I proudly posted pictures of US troops on the Champs Elyseys...
You were on my ignore list less than 85hz...just the time to make a screen capture :)
"Captain Virgil Hilts" reaction was ... very interresting :D
Email otw Grun ... I'm going back to my swiming pool ;)
(Too hot to post here 32°).
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Originally posted by MrLars
I dunno, the Marines are 'first to go, last to know'....maybe they just haven't seen the latest Zogby poll.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=849
The next time they see JK they just may have to salute :P
8 years of Clinton has already taught them how to swallow their pride so I'm sure they'll be up to the task, should the worst happen.
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In this country, a soldiers duty is to follow the orders of the CIC, not some nutball senator.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
You're so clever you didn't even read my post and tought it was a bash of the whole Marine corp.
You're a Liar straffo.
"I had an highter opinion of the Marines."
Words mean something, didnt Rush Linbaugh teach you anything?
Idiot...
My bad ,it's just your primitive language is lacking for subtil expression.
"I had an highter opinion of the Marines." != "I had an highter opinion of the Marines corp."
At least in my language it make sense and is very different , perhaps not in English.
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Originally posted by straffo
My bad ,it's just your primitive language is lacking for subtil expression.
"I had an highter opinion of the Marines." != "I had an highter opinion of the Marines corp."
At least in my language it make sense and is very different , perhaps not in English.
There is no Marine Corps without Marines. In your language (well, in English actually) Straffo, how are the two different?
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Straffo .....is from normandie ?
Leave him alone,you know how tough the french are sitting behind a screen.Leave them what little pride they have left.
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I dunno. Perhaps he's making a distinction between the institution and tradition of the Marine Corps and those folks that actually make up that institution. Or maybe he's only pointing out that a few Marines aren't representative of the whole Corps. Somethng like this Straffo?
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Aren't these Marines the same type of people the Dems tried to discount their votes in Florida in the last elections????
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Or maybe he's only pointing out that a few Marines aren't representative of the whole Corps. Somethng like this Straffo?
Exactly my point.
I still don't understand why it's not clear in my previous sentence :confused:
@demaw1 : that's lovely and applicable also for some guys sitting on the other side of the Atlantic :D
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Originally posted by firbal
Aren't these Marines the same type of people the Dems tried to discount their votes in Florida in the last elections????
The Democrats only want "fairness" for themselves. And they will moan and wail over even the slightest perceived injustice toward themselves while at the same time dealing out far greater underhandedness like trying to deny military absentee ballots or keeping Nadar out of the election. They are only fooling themselves however.
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Originally posted by MrLars
I dunno, the Marines are 'first to go, last to know'....maybe they just haven't seen the latest Zogby poll.
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=849
The next time they see JK they just may have to salute :P
there wont be a problem there. us military has institutional respect for cic position no matter who fills it at the time. to bad some antiamerican political hacks hiding behind veil of "patriotism" dont have similar respect for office of president. the only people being insulting during clinton years were clinton appointees pissing all over military every chance they got. also i dont think kerry is poking his chest i think hes pointing at fruit salad and asking Marine some questions about it. and whoever said it is right military must show respect to cic senator is another matter. some senators given much respect because its been earned. others this is not the case.
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Originally posted by straffo
Exactly my point.
I still don't understand why it's not clear in my previous sentence :confused:
@demaw1 : that's lovely and applicable also for some guys sitting on the other side of the Atlantic :D
I'm not sure what your point was. Military personnel are often discouraged from speaking to the press because some take it to mean they are speaking for their uniform. However, US military personnel don't give up their citizenship and still have the right to free speech, though there can be restrictions. I'm betting these guys aren't reprimanded for talking to reporters, unless their CO is a democrat, unlikely considering the odds.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Ithat a few Marines aren't representative of the whole Corps.
Absolutely.
But of course the "photo op", had it been highly successful, would have been used to portray it othwise, IE: "the whole Marine Corps loves Kerry. See, here's two of them now!"
This went awry, so now they "aren't representative".
Not that the Repubs would do it any different.
It's a smoke and mirrors, or simply politics if you prefer.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm not sure what your point was. Military personnel are often discouraged from speaking to the press because some take it to mean they are speaking for their uniform. However, US military personnel don't give up their citizenship and still have the right to free speech, though there can be restrictions. I'm betting these guys aren't reprimanded for talking to reporters, unless their CO is a democrat, unlikely considering the odds.
ooops ... I though it was like for us , it's not discouraged here : it's explicitly forbidden.
Not only for the military btw ,some one working for the state administration is forbidden to give a political opinion especially when on duty and should restrain when not on duty.
I over reacted because of this, and won't have reacted at all if they had not been on uniform.
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Originally posted by Toad
Absolutely.
But of course the "photo op", had it been highly successful, would have been used to portray it othwise, IE: "the whole Marine Corps loves Kerry. See, here's two of them now!"
This went awry, so now they "aren't representative".
Not that the Repubs would do it any different.
It's a smoke and mirrors, or simply politics if you prefer.
It's a weak and disgusting "trick" IMO (whatever the side using this trick)
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Originally posted by straffo
It's a weak and disgusting "trick" IMO (whatever the side using this trick)
It's a trick that backfired. So who is the weak and disgusting party here?
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IMO both.
Kerry because is trying to show his elector how he is backed by an institution.
The Marines (to be more clear the one present) because he play the exact same trick but for Bush.
It's my interpretation of this :
"I'm 100 percent against" Kerry, he said. "We support our commander-in-chief 100 percent."
When he said : "I'm 100 percent against" Kerry
I'm ok,especially since knowing he can express himself and not like a French soldier just : shut the f* up :)
But he is playing the same trick for Bush just after in his last sentence.
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Originally posted by straffo
I suppose GRUN posted yet another pict of some german soldier on the champ elysée ...
and captain moron make yet another clever post ?
You're so clever you didn't even read my post and tought it was a bash of the whole Marine corp.
When it was just a constat of the lack of courage of some Marines.
who are you to say these two in the picture lack courage.
WHO ARE YOU?
They dont speak for the whole corps nore do they speak for the military.....they simply do not support John Kerry (rightfully so) and said as much.
THEY WERE EATING IN A PUBLIC PLACE
They were mad that they got bothered while eating
If you are in uniform you can talk to the press ALL YOU WANT. You just can't answer questions about incidents or military operations.
Man you guys are really transparent.....they dont support Kerry so there must be something wrong with them.
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Originally posted by straffo
Wtf is a country where the military can give a political opinion ?
Plus they lack the minimal courage to say Kerry to go away but have the "courage" to speak to the journalists ?
Truly a shame , they don't respect their uniform nor themselve.
I had an highter opinion of the Marines.
I don't think they give a d*** what you think about them.
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Military people can't participate in protests or demonstrations, at least not in uniform, but are usually allowed to express their political preference, at least when asked. The Marine was only saying how he felt, and it isn't a sentiment unshared by the majority of military people.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Military people can't participate in protests or demonstrations, at least not in uniform, but are usually allowed to express their political preference, at least when asked. The Marine was only saying how he felt, and it isn't a sentiment unshared by the majority of military people.
actually Iron we can. We just cannot protest the Govt. we are serving.
It's all about bringing dishonor to the uniform. You have to ask yourself if what you are doing will bring dishonor to everyone else who's ever bled and died in the same uniform. If the answer is yes than you are wrong......unless your name is John Kerry. Than you can bring whatever dishonor you want to the uniform all in the name of peace.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
who are you to say these two in the picture lack courage.
WHO ARE YOU?
They dont speak for the whole corps nore do they speak for the military.....they simply do not support John Kerry (rightfully so) and said as much.
THEY WERE EATING IN A PUBLIC PLACE
They were mad that they got bothered while eating
If you are in uniform you can talk to the press ALL YOU WANT. You just can't answer questions about incidents or military operations.
Man you guys are really transparent.....they dont support Kerry so there must be something wrong with them.
Did you bother to read my other messages ?
I reacted this way because what they have done is pretty shocking for ME and because of our rules in France.
For the record I don't support Kerry ... nor Bush.
I think you should come back to the comonwealth and under the queen's rule (this part is a joke :p)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ceratinly the French military never gave its opinion about France's political fortunes..
Thankfully these guys did...
(http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/parisliberation.gif)
And maybe, just maybe the Marines were being polite and respectful. But wait, you French wouldnt understand that...
Just for chits and giggles, imagine your response if those Marines HAD actually told Mr Ketchup to, uhhm, "shove it." You know you would be one of the first to bash them for being mindless brainwashed republiclown right wing crazies...
Go ahead, have your lower opinion of the US combat tropps...
(http://www.worldwar2database.com/photos/wwii420.jpg)
Stupid frog...
WTFG Grun!
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Originally posted by MrLars
The next time they see JK they just may have to salute :P
Only if they recognize him.
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Originally posted by straffo
It's a weak and disgusting "trick" IMO (whatever the side using this trick)
Ah well whatever, I forgave ya already.
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Your opinion of the United States Marine Corps is almost as irrelevant as your country. And the United Nations.
I agree.
dago
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yes.
All three of them. :)
Originally posted by DmdBT
Doesn't the "dont ask dont tell" policy make it impossible to find the democrat marines?
Well from my understanding, once you've signed up and are part of the grander military. You cease to think as an individual. You are a serial number, government issue or GI. What the heck does a killing machine need political affiliations for. You do what you are told not to think on your own unless told to by your superiors. From a pure logical point of view, this view point is not dirrerent then Kerry going and acting on his own while still being part of the Navy (though he was not in active service at the time). So let me ask you, if Kerry wins, should I be able to derive that these two Marines then do not support Kerry and thus do not support their commander in chief or perhaps they dont support Kerry but still serve him since he would be sworn in as their CIC as they have sworn to obey and serve his orders. Until someone has signed up, hes his own person but after the fact, hes just gov equipment. Am I wrong?
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Originally posted by 212
Well from my understanding, once you've signed up and are part of the grander military. You cease to think as an individual. You are a serial number, government issue or GI. What the heck does a killing machine need political affiliations for. You do what you are told not to think on your own unless told to by your superiors. From a pure logical point of view, this view point is not dirrerent then Kerry going and acting on his own while still being part of the Navy (though he was not in active service at the time). So let me ask you, if Kerry wins, should I be able to derive that these two Marines then do not support Kerry and thus do not support their commander in chief or perhaps they dont support Kerry but still serve him since he would be sworn in as their CIC as they have sworn to obey and serve his orders. Until someone has signed up, hes his own person but after the fact, hes just gov equipment. Am I wrong?
being in the military does not mean you have to give up your right to vote.
MARINES are voters too! That does not mean they "dont support the current CIC" if they vote for his opponent and vis versa.
These guys are at Wendys on thier lunch break. If they were on a military operation or at there place of work that'd be a different story.
You guys are really grasping here!
saying something like "sen. kerry, I am not voting for you and you are disturbing my lunch break." is polite and totaly acceptable for somone who is a senator meeting somone in uniform in a public place.
in the pic it looks like Kerry is asking the Sgt about his: ribbons/medals:
Caption:
"Yea I had that one too before I threw it over the white house lawn."
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Ok ..slinger, thats a fair explanation. I've never been in the military so what the hell do I know.
:D
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Originally posted by 212
Ok ..slinger, thats a fair explanation. I've never been in the military so what the hell do I know.
:D
sorry didnt mean to be picking on you it just seems to me because two Marines dont support Kerry the true libs on this board are all up in arms.
:aok
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You were picking on me? I hadnt noticed.
:lol
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I'm glad that both sides are discussing this...this the most important issue to hit US politics since the Declaration of Independence.
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Looks to ma like Kerry is trying to "nose check" him (If he looks down, you bring your finger up and tweak his nose).
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Caption:
"Yea I had that one too before I threw it over the white house lawn."
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
sorry didnt mean to be picking on you it just seems to me because two Marines dont support Kerry the true libs on this board are all up in arms.
:aok
It's far more than 2 Marines. Those two most likely represent the consensus in all the military. I know that 90% of thos ein just my Department are against this prettythang. Frankly I'd have punced him if he came up to me like that. NOW THAT WOULD MAKE A HELL OF A PICTURE. Course with all the botox he uses he probrably wouldn't have felt it.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
It's far more than 2 Marines. Those two most likely represent the consensus in all the military. I know that 90% of thos ein just my Department are against this prettythang. Frankly I'd have punced him if he came up to me like that. NOW THAT WOULD MAKE A HELL OF A PICTURE. Course with all the botox he uses he probrably wouldn't have felt it.
yea most of the guys I work w/ as well stand behind bush....even the ones that spent the last year in Iraq. People in the military realize what kerry is and what he was. Everyone of us have worked with his type of officer.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Looks to ma like Kerry is trying to "nose check" him (If he looks down, you bring your finger up and tweak his nose).
Liz, I believe he is pointing at the Marines medals, probably trying to bring up conversation with the man. Perhaps even asking if they were combat medals. Had earned in the combat? You got frys with that son?
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Originally posted by 212
Well from my understanding, once you've signed up and are part of the grander military. You cease to think as an individual. You are a serial number, government issue or GI. What the heck does a killing machine need political affiliations for. You do what you are told not to think on your own unless told to by your superiors. From a pure logical point of view, this view point is not dirrerent then Kerry going and acting on his own while still being part of the Navy (though he was not in active service at the time). So let me ask you, if Kerry wins, should I be able to derive that these two Marines then do not support Kerry and thus do not support their commander in chief or perhaps they dont support Kerry but still serve him since he would be sworn in as their CIC as they have sworn to obey and serve his orders. Until someone has signed up, hes his own person but after the fact, hes just gov equipment. Am I wrong?
nevermind gunslinger said it better. outphrased by a Marine. nobody tell the cno. :)
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What the heck does a killing machine need political affiliations for.
Yes, ..slinger showed me that military people have political affiliations as well as us civilians when not on duty.
;)
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Originally posted by 212
Thats pretty pathetic. If I ever met Bush or Kerry, I'd probably ask them a buncha questions. To say that you would slug someone if you ever met them? You make me laugh and you have lost credability with me. You need to think about what you said because to me you sound like a bitter individual who makes casual threats to people you do not know or have ever even met.
Oh for Christ's Sake. One I don't care if I lose credability with anyone on this board, I don't know you and you don't know me. If you are from Poland like your profile says you are, I will say once again, why don't you euro's stay out of our politics. The military gets F%cked by Dumb-o-crat administrations so alot of our military feel contempt towards them. My statement about slugging him was not a threat towards someone i don't know but a metaphor for the contemp I feel towards The Communist oops I mean democratic party in our country and their Hurman Munster look alike presidential canidate. Maybe I am a bitter individual but I suffered my first 8 years in the Navy under the Clinton regime whose policies cut our funding and readiness down so far that we were in poor shape without parts or manpower to keep our equipment up to snuff. Also whose policies towards terrorists allowed us to be attacked twice in 3 times in two years (Cole, African Embassies, WTC) and a few other times before that. By the way I loved Poland when I had a port visit in Gydinia. Your women are EASY.
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My statement about slugging him was not a threat towards someone i don't know but a metaphor
Of course, thats why I deleted my post after reading it again. Realized that you must have meant it in figurative meaning. Or as they say, just another metaphor. Doubted that you would actually attack a political figure in a Wendy's restaurant.
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Originally posted by 212
Doubted that you would actually attack a political figure in a Wendy's restaurant.
Kerry is lucky it wasnt a Burger KIng.... :D
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I'm glad that both sides are discussing this...this the most important issue to hit US politics since the Declaration of Independence.
The statement above is one of most assnine statements uttered on this board in a long time. Casting an insult on a discussion that doesn't involve him or his sadly pathetic little country, and having to stretch so far to try and figure out something really stupid to say is just sad.
dago
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Wow, that was a little extreme there GI Joe.
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Watch out or he will use his Kung-Fu grip on yer ass.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ceratinly the French military never gave its opinion about France's political fortunes..
Thankfully these guys did...
(http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/parisliberation.gif)
And maybe, just maybe the Marines were being polite and respectful. But wait, you French wouldnt understand that...
Just for chits and giggles, imagine your response if those Marines HAD actually told Mr Ketchup to, uhhm, "shove it." You know you would be one of the first to bash them for being mindless brainwashed republiclown right wing crazies...
Go ahead, have your lower opinion of the US combat tropps...
(http://www.worldwar2database.com/photos/wwii420.jpg)
Stupid frog...
Quoted simply so the frog can see this post and maybe understand why he's able to post here in the first place and it not speaking german to this day. I was going to post pictures of another army marching down that street (about 4 years earlier), or another of a certain man with a funny mustache posing in front of the eiffel tower but I'm too tired and I'll probably be on his ignore list too.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yea most of the guys I work w/ as well stand behind bush....even the ones that spent the last year in Iraq. People in the military realize what kerry is and what he was. Everyone of us have worked with his type of officer.
Why do you think they were so adamant about not counting the military votes in Floriduh in 2000? I almost puked when they said in the DNC speeches that crap about counting every vote. They sicken me.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ceratinly the French military never gave its opinion about France's political fortunes..
Thankfully these guys did...
(http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/parisliberation.gif)
And maybe, just maybe the Marines were being polite and respectful. But wait, you French wouldnt understand that...
Just for chits and giggles, imagine your response if those Marines HAD actually told Mr Ketchup to, uhhm, "shove it." You know you would be one of the first to bash them for being mindless brainwashed republiclown right wing crazies...
Go ahead, have your lower opinion of the US combat tropps...
(http://www.worldwar2database.com/photos/wwii420.jpg)
Stupid frog...
Weren't those soldiers US Army? Figured our Marines had their hands a bit full fighting in the Pacific theatre against the Japanese.
I seem to recall the French had a role in helping us against the British with our War of Independence. My how we want to use our selective memory to suit our argument. Quite frankly, without the French, we might not of been around to help save them in WWII. Hypocritical, no? What would you call it then if not?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yea most of the guys I work w/ as well stand behind bush....even the ones that spent the last year in Iraq. People in the military realize what kerry is and what he was. Everyone of us have worked with his type of officer.
Your being in the Marines, how would you treat Kerry today if you met him? You're in uniform representing the US. Do you act the professional you were trained for and treat him with professional courtesy? Or do you let him have it and tell him how you really feel?
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Originally posted by 212
Ok ..slinger, thats a fair explanation. I've never been in the military so what the hell do I know.
:D
Obviously very little. But don't let that stop you from having an opinion. Certainly doesn't stop many others from having one.
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They sicken me.
You catch kerry spouting out during his convention speech that we need a "strong military"? That about sickened me. What a freaking hypocrite! He of all people saying that, after his abismal record voting against the military, against every weapons system, against increasing military pay so the soldiers dont need food stamps.
Lets look at the congressional voting record of the man now saying we need a strong military:
1) In 1996 - Introduced Bill to slash Defense Department Funding by $6.5 Billion.
2) In 1995 - Voted to freeze Defense spending for 7 years, slashing over $34 billion from Defense.
3) Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution - Defense Freeze. "Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training."
4) In 1993 - Introduced plan to cut numerous Defense programs, including:
• Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews.
• Reduce the number of light infantry units down to one.
• Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force.
• Terminate the Navy's coastal mine-hunting ship program.
• Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year.
5) Has voted repeatedly to cut Defense spending, including:
• In 1993, voted against increased Defense spending for Military Pay Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years.
• In 1992, voted to cut $6 billion from Defense.
• In 1991, voted to slash over $3 Billion from Defense. Shift money to social programs.
• In 1991, voted to cut defense spending by 2%
• Voted repeatedly to cut or eliminate funding for B-2.
• Voted repeatedly against Missile Defense - Weapons Kerry sought to phase out were vital in Iraq . "Kerry supported cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US military might-the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks." (Brian C. Mooney, "Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One, "The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)
• Voted repeatedly against military hardware he felt we no longer need since the "cold war" is past. The money would be better spent on "social" programs. These weapons are now the core of our military power. (F-16 Fighting Falcons, B-1Bs B-2As F-15 and F-16s, M1 Abrams, Patriot Missile, AH-64 Apache Helicopter, Tomahawk Cruise Missile, Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser)
6) During 1980s Kerry and Michael Dukakis joined forces with liberal group dedicated to slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of "Jobs with Peace Campaign," which sought to "develop public support for cutting the defense budget . . ." ("Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs," The Associated Press, 6/3/88)
7) While running for Congress in 1972, Kerry promised to cut Defense Spending. "On what he'll do if he's elected to Congress, "Kerry said he would ' bring a different kind of message to the President. "He said he would, "Vote against military appropriations." ("Candidate's for Congress Capture Campus in Andover," Lawrence [MA] Eagle-Tribune, 4/21/72)
Article regarding Kerrys voting record towards military (http://www.savethecolors.com/mkk.htm)
How anyone can vote for such a person amazes me. He says things that are not just wrong, they are blatant lies. Huge hypocrite.
dago
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GI JOE TO TEH RESCUE!
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Weren't those soldiers US Army? Figured our Marines had their hands a bit full fighting in the Pacific theatre against the Japanese.
I seem to recall the French had a role in helping us against the British with our War of Independence. My how we want to use our selective memory to suit our argument. Quite frankly, without the French, we might not of been around to help save them in WWII. Hypocritical, no? What would you call it then if not?
Nonsense. He would have said the same thing whether they were Army, mavy, Air Force or Marines. He clearly stated his displeasure at military people speaking out against Kerry even if they were curteous to him.
Yes the French were important in the Revolution. Americans have the self confidence and maturty to simply accept that and thank the self serving French king who also helped us in his wars against the british :). The modern day Degaulle brigade on the other hand are a bunch of arrogant prideful narcissist ingreates and they hate the USA for playing such a major role in saving them.
Man my D70 could have taken a great picture of all those many troops marching in paris (on bastille day of course). ;)
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I wonder what would happen if I^d see Hortlund walkinghand in hand with a marine in tockholm...semper fi!
jesus...that's gross...
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Silly names don't alter reality.
Ever see shanes worlds video that shows what the typical man and woman are like in Canada? funny.
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
Silly names don't alter reality.
Ever see shanes worlds video that shows what the typical man and woman are like in Canada? funny.
dago
Nope, link me GI Joe.
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C'mon guys; Make love not war !
If you van fit in some kinky background it¨ll double your pleasure...
Sorry my hands are shaking;I'd like to write my memoirs but it has to wait....
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nonsense. He would have said the same thing whether they were Army, mavy, Air Force or Marines. He clearly stated his displeasure at military people speaking out against Kerry even if they were curteous to him.
He would have said the same had it been some military saying the same had it been against Bush early in 2000. I think he meant that though. I could be wrong as my reading comprehension has been wanting lately.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes the French were important in the Revolution. Americans have the self confidence and maturty to simply accept that and thank the self serving French king who also helped us in his wars against the british :). The modern day Degaulle brigade on the other hand are a bunch of arrogant prideful narcissist ingreates and they hate the USA for playing such a major role in saving them.
You say we're showing self-confidence and maturity when we keep bashing them, calling them "frogs", "USA haters" just because some happen to disagree with us? Doesn't look like much self confidence and maturity from my end. How is calling him "Stupid frog" not? Show me anywhere here on this BBS where he's called anyone here "Stupid American"? I can't recall seeing any personal insults by him (or many foreigners for that matter), yet many of us just rain them down on them. Just because we happen to disagree on a subject.
What was that you said above? "Self confidence" and "Maturity"? You sure about that? Doesn't look like it. How about discussing/arguing the points instead of the childish personal attacks. It's unbecoming of us Americans. Show your self-confidence and Maturity, eh.
I know your online persona is to be a bit over the top, but c'mon man, tone it down a bit.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Man my D70 could have taken a great picture of all those many troops marching in paris (on bastille day of course). ;)
Heck yeah you would! So, what pics have you taken with yours?
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Originally posted by SaburoS
He would have said the same had it been some military saying the same had it been against Bush early in 2000. I think he meant that though. I could be wrong as my reading comprehension has been wanting lately.
You say we're showing self-confidence and maturity when we keep bashing them, calling them "frogs", "USA haters" just because some happen to disagree with us? Doesn't look like much self confidence and maturity from my end. How is calling him "Stupid frog" not? Show me anywhere here on this BBS where he's called anyone here "Stupid American"? I can't recall seeing any personal insults by him (or many foreigners for that matter), yet many of us just rain them down on them. Just because we happen to disagree on a subject.
What was that you said above? "Self confidence" and "Maturity"? You sure about that? Doesn't look like it. How about discussing/arguing the points instead of the childish personal attacks. It's unbecoming of us Americans. Show your self-confidence and Maturity, eh.
I know your online persona is to be a bit over the top, but c'mon man, tone it down a bit.
Heck yeah you would! So, what pics have you taken with yours?
Where do I begin? You are taking all this so seriously, and If were too, I would agree with eveything you said. :)
Last thing I really shot was the space launch about a month ago. I might go to big sur tommorow and see how it works out.
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Holy cow I forgot about those pics. Those were good!
Oh man I really hope you take a lot of pics! I've seen some awesome samples of what that D70 can do.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Your being in the Marines, how would you treat Kerry today if you met him? You're in uniform representing the US. Do you act the professional you were trained for and treat him with professional courtesy? Or do you let him have it and tell him how you really feel?
Saburo that's an excelent question.
from very early on you are taught to respect the rank.....respecting the man that wears it is up to you.
I comented earlier that the Marine talking to kerry is at least showing the discipline to not talk to him while sitting on his ass. He is after all a US Senator.
As far as his questions I would answer them honestly and truthfully.....A good lawyer knows not to ask a qustion you dont allready know the answer to.....that being said If he doesnt like the answer he should not ask the question. But, that's not to say you go over the top and insult the man.
Again you allways show courtesy and respect even if you think he is a disgrace to the uniform I proudly wear.
I'm not saying that allways happens but that's at least how we are trained.
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Gunslinger,
Thank you. I would think that's how it would be. Was beginning to wonder there though ;)
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SaburoS, are you SERIOUS?? You haven't seen straffo insult anyone personally? Uh, take the blinders off.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Gunslinger,
Thank you. I would think that's how it would be. Was beginning to wonder there though ;)
of course it could go like this: ;)
Kerry: Hey there how goes it.
Gunslinger: I'm eating
Kerry: Oh ok, sorry I just wanted to introduce myself
Gunslinger: I said I was eating
Kerry: I see you're in the Marines, you know I was in the Navy during vietnam
Gunslinger: How could I NOT know that?
Kerry: I see you have a Navy Achievment Medal...I had one of those too!
Gunslinger: Do you still have that or is that one of those you threw away in protest.
Kerry: Well I only threw my ribbons away....I have the medals in my office
Gunslinger: So your not a man of conviction? If I was going to protest I'd do it and not take it back.
Kerry: Well I just wanted to let you know that I support the troops
Gunslinger: Is that why you voted FOR the 87Billion before you voted against the 87 billion. I suppose you voted FOR the B1, B2, F14, and every other major kick bellybutton weapons system we have before you voted against them.
Kerry: :confused:
Gunslinger: I'm glad you're not fighting in this war. I'd hate for you to come back and give false testimony before congress about all the children i've killed and atrocitys commited......that would kinda suck.
Kerry: :confused: :confused: well I.....
Gunslinger: Didnt I say I was eating?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
SaburoS, are you SERIOUS?? You haven't seen straffo insult anyone personally? Uh, take the blinders off.
You mean one's not out of retaliation of his getting insulted?
We're talking personal insults.
Since I've got the blinders on, you care to quote him on a few?
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Do your own search. Or continue on as you are, that's your choice.
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Originally posted by 212
Yeah, these be republican Marines. He should have sought out the Democratic Marine Corps.
;)
Don't ask Don't tell drove them out.:eek:
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Do your own search. Or continue on as you are, that's your choice.
You made the statement, now back it up. If you decide not to then I'll take it that I'm right. Burden of proof is on the one making the statement of something that exists.
Seems you decided to make the search and found out that I was right.
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Looking at his Herman face and shaking his withered old man hand would kill just about anyone’s appetite
you'd think if someone was interested in meeting him, they'd go to him - not the other way around
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(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20040801/stt040730.gif)
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Originally posted by Dago
Lets look at the congressional voting record of the man now saying we need a strong military:
1) In 1996 - Introduced Bill to slash Defense Department Funding by $6.5 Billion.
2) In 1995 - Voted to freeze Defense spending for 7 years, slashing over $34 billion from Defense.
3) Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution - Defense Freeze. "Harkin, D-Iowa, amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training."
I'm snipping a bunch of stuff here for expedience since BoB starts soon today.
These talking points sure don't take into account that many of these cuts were offered by and voted for by the Republicans. Some bills actualy had deeper cuts than Kerry offered and were voted for the same day he made the offering.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/
They should also have looked up some testimony by Dick Cheney, the first President Bush's secretary of defense (and now vice president), three days later, boasting of similar slashings before the Senate Armed Services Committee:
Overall, since I've been Secretary, we will have taken the five-year defense program down by well over $300 billion. That's the peace dividend. … And now we're adding to that another $50 billion … of so-called peace dividend.
Cheney proceeded to lay into the then-Democratically controlled Congress for refusing to cut more weapons systems.
Congress has let me cancel a few programs. But you've squabbled and sometimes bickered and horse-traded and ended up forcing me to spend money on weapons that don't fill a vital need in these times of tight budgets and new requirements. … You've directed me to buy more M-1s, F-14s, and F-16s—all great systems … but we have enough of them.
The Republican operatives might also have noticed Gen. Colin Powell, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at the same hearings, testifying about plans to cut Army divisions by one-third, Navy aircraft carriers by one-fifth, and active armed forces by half a million men and women, to say noting of "major reductions" in fighter wings and strategic bombers.
Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise. But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.
Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.
The claim about these votes was made in the Republican National Committee "Research Briefing" of Feb. 22. The report lists 13 weapons systems that Kerry voted to cut—the ones cited above, as well as Patriot air-defense missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and AH64 Apache helicopters, among others.
It is instructive, however, to look at the footnotes. Almost all of them cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.
On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.
In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty.
Another bit of dishonesty is RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie's claim, at a news conference today, that in 1995, Kerry voted to cut $1.5 billion from the intelligence budget. John Pike, who runs the invaluable globalsecurity.org Web site, told me what that cut was about: The Air Force's National Reconnaissance Office had appropriated that much money to operate a spy satellite that, as things turned out, it never launched. So the Senate passed an amendment rescinding the money—not to cancel a program, but to get a refund on a program that the NRO had canceled. Kerry voted for the amendment, as did a majority of his colleagues.
An examination of Kerry's real voting record during his 20 years in the Senate indicates that he did vote to restrict or cut certain weapons systems. From 1989-92, he supported amendments to halt production of the B-2 stealth bomber. (In 1992, George H.W. Bush halted it himself.) It is true that the B-2 came in handy during the recent war in Iraq—but for reasons having nothing to do with its original rationale.
The B-2 came into being as an airplane that would drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. The program was very controversial at the time. It was extremely expensive. Its stealth technology had serious technical bugs. More to the point, a grand debate was raging in defense circles at the time over whether, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles and long-range cruise missiles, the United States needed any new bomber that would fly into the Soviet Union's heavily defended airspace. The debate was not just between hawks and doves; advocates and critics could be found among both.
In the latest war, B-2s—modified to carry conventional munitions—were among the planes that dropped smart bombs on Iraq. But that was like hopping in the Lincoln stretch limo to drop Grandma off at church. As for the other stealth plane used in both Iraq wars—the F-117, which was designed for non-nuclear missions—there is no indication that Kerry ever opposed it.
The RNC doesn't mention it, but Kerry also supported amendments to limit (but not kill) funding for President Reagan's fanciful (and eventually much-altered) "Star Wars" missile-defense system. Kerry sponsored amendments to ban tests of anti-satellite weapons, as long as the Soviet Union also refrained from testing. In retrospect, trying to limit the vulnerability of satellites was a very good idea since many of our smart bombs are guided to their targets by signals from satellites.
Kerry also voted for amendments to restrict the deployment of the MX missile (Reagan changed its deployment plan several times, and Bush finally stopped the program altogether) and to ban the production of nerve-gas weapons.
At the same time, in 1991, Kerry opposed an amendment to impose an arbitrary 2 percent cut in the military budget. In 1992, he opposed an amendment to cut Pentagon intelligence programs by $1 billion. In 1994, he voted against a motion to cut $30.5 billion from the defense budget over the next five years and to redistribute the money to programs for education and the disabled. That same year, he opposed an amendment to postpone construction of a new aircraft carrier. In 1996, he opposed a motion to cut six F-18 jet fighters from the budget. In 1999, he voted against a motion to terminate the Trident II missile. (Interestingly, the F-18 and Trident II are among the weapons systems that the RNC claims Kerry opposed.)
Are there votes in Kerry's 20-year record as a senator that might look embarrassing in retrospect? Probably. But these are not the ones.
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NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
Asked what he has accomplished during his 19 years in the Senate, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry gives a lengthy answer but has a short list of laws that bear his name.
The Massachusetts senator is known for using his investigative powers to shine a light on problems and corruption, but not as someone steeped in the process of making bills into law.
Kerry has been the lead sponsor of eight bills that have become law. Two are related to his work on the Senate panel on oceans and fisheries -- a 1994 law to protect marine mammals from being taken during commercial fishing and a 1991 measure for the National Sea Grant College Program Act, which finances marine research.
In 1999, President Clinton signed his bill providing grants to support small businesses owned by women.
The rest of the laws he saw passed were ceremonial -- renaming a federal building, designating Vietnam Veterans Memorial 10th Anniversary Day, National POW/MIA Recognition Day and World Population Awareness Week in two separate years.
19 years, 8 bills, 3 of which actually did something.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
You made the statement, now back it up. If you decide not to then I'll take it that I'm right. Burden of proof is on the one making the statement of something that exists.
Seems you decided to make the search and found out that I was right.
No, I decided not to waste my time trying to convince you, I'm sure it isn't worth it. Take a look around, if you are interested in finding the truth. If you aren't, my holding your hand and leading you to it won't help. Simple enough for you?
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Lars, you provided a lot of typing, but really not much substance to counter kerrys poor record of supporting a strong military. Fact is, he does have a very poor record of supporting the military. Trying to counter one or two of the votes, or saying the Republicans didnt support one or two of the bills hardly changes kerrys overall record.
dago
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Straffo...I believe ya , language I am sure was the problem,I honestly cant imagine anyone saying our military have no guts.
SABUROS....just a couple points.
I think you again jump at America a little to fast, Straffo early on call them cowards doesnt matter the content he did...There are still enough of us left in America that will react to that and not bash America first.
Straffo has called me a few names,dont care they werent harmfull..lol not like borodas...still sofften up a little, we all have been calling each outer names since our sisters took our first bottle from us .Also it just isnt in here,but the world does it every day, day in day out .
about selective memory: yes we had french help in the form of mercinaries...and yes after 2 years ben franklin with help from lafeeatte[please forgivespellingI have no idea but he was an amazing man] managed to send a french fleet..but,the fleet
stayed away from any fighting unless they found a british ship by itself goin home or coming in.Near the end of the war[no certain time] after washington crossed the delaware Lord Nelson said [forsure paraphasing] We british will lose this war,not because they are mightier or braver than us ,but because I now know we are fighting a spiritual war and for the first time in Englands history God is on their side.He sent this message back to England 2 ways.The French captured 1 of the ships and read the dispatch.They waited untill they were sure of American victory before entering the war as they didnt want a war with England.Yes they picked the right time to come in, but the war was near over anyway.This does not deminish what they did,just tells a little of the geo politics at the time.
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212 re. just a number after u join...
When you serve in the military your unit strives to become one,but you still are an individual.From the beginning that is what has made our military strong. One little example and thats all. I may say this wrong so any vets please correct me.
Even the private at some time is taught to think for himself,in ww2 that was a huge strengh[all our wars I guess]
On the whole if the ger/ ja. officers [lower rank battlefield] were killed for all intents and purposes the battle was won. They just couldnt funuction on there own after that.
It could and has happened many times thru history that a private has taken command when there was no one else and continued to victory. An ensign has taken command of ships and fought her well or saved it ,so we never became robots like most other armies..as far as I know britian , canada,austrilia,are three like this there are not many.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Your being in the Marines, how would you treat Kerry today if you met him? You're in uniform representing the US. Do you act the professional you were trained for and treat him with professional courtesy? Or do you let him have it and tell him how you really feel?
I would be polite to the letter of professional courtesy, but "warm" I wouldn't be. If he asked for my personal opinion on any matter, I'd give it to him..in a tactful way, of course.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Even the private at some time is taught to think for himself,in ww2 that was a huge strengh[all our wars I guess]
On the whole if the ger/ ja. officers [lower rank battlefield] were killed for all intents and purposes the battle was won. They just couldnt funuction on there own after that.
DeMaw1,
Actually 'initiative thru the ranks' was one of the advantages that Germany's armed forces had over their opponents in WW2. From the end of WW1 thru WW2 the German army was stressing 'be prepared to take control of the fight if your squad/platoon/company leader goes down' long before any other Nation's military was.
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo...I believe ya , language I am sure was the problem,I honestly cant imagine anyone saying our military have no guts.
It was not my intent.
I overreacted/expressed my thought very badly and for this I apologise.
SABUROS....just a couple points.
I think you again jump at America a little to fast, Straffo early on call them cowards doesnt matter the content he did...There are still enough of us left in America that will react to that and not bash America first.
(I don't undertand thuis part)
Straffo has called me a few names,dont care they werent harmfull..lol not like borodas...still sofften up a little, we all have been calling each outer names since our sisters took our first bottle from us .Also it just isnt in here,but the world does it every day, day in day out . [/B]
You have a better memory than I :D
about selective memory: yes we had french help in the form of mercinaries...and yes after 2 years ben franklin with help from lafeeatte[please forgivespellingI have no idea but he was an amazing man] managed to send a french fleet..but,the fleet [/B]
True.
Had Lafayette no been to the "soon to be former colonie of England"(*) LouisXVI wouldn't have given any support to the American
stayed away from any fighting unless they found a british ship by itself goin home or coming in.Near the end of the war[no certain time] after washington crossed the delaware Lord Nelson said [forsure paraphasing] We british will lose this war,not because they are mightier or braver than us ,but because I now know we are fighting a spiritual war and for the first time in Englands history God is on their side.He sent this message back to England 2 ways.The French captured 1 of the ships and read the dispatch.They waited untill they were sure of American victory before entering the war as they didnt want a war with England.Yes they picked the right time to come in, but the war was near over anyway.This does not deminish what they did,just tells a little of the geo politics at the time. [/B]
Are you sure you citation of Neslon is genuine ?
Plus I thing it's oversimplified why the whole british fleet was not near the American coast ?
(*) what else can I use ? ,it was not anymore british colonies but not yet the USA ...
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OK, maybe I missed it while I scanning through the posts. I`ve seen 3 or 4 tape measures wore out and a lot of drivel. Unless I missed it, what I didn`t see was what Kerry was supposedly doing at the Wendys to begin with.
Here`s the line of horse hockey as expalined by Mr. and Mrs. Bozo.
According to them, on the day they got married ,they did not have enough money to eat at one of the finer establishments to celebrate their wedding , so they dined at Wendys. According to Kerry they have made this a family tradition and on their anniversary they go to Wendys to celebrate.
Now what`s wrong with this picture?
Does he really expect someone to buy this crock ?
I mean, come on. Miss Ketchup and Tomatoe sauce worth millions, no make that billions, couldn`t afford anything but Wendys?
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Wulfe....german army
Can you give me a referance, not because i dont believe you ,but because I have never read that, would like to study it. If needed I can give you some. every military historian I read gave a different view ,of course ,I have only read American authors.There were singlar commanders like Gudariun that tried to instill this with some success but not on the whole. Also I you dont have any handy thats fine between work,family and projects dont have much time.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
of course it could go like this: ;)
Brilliant :)
If you get the chance, make sure the camera mics are close enough to pick up your words. :)
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Originally posted by demaw1
Wulfe....german army
Can you give me a referance, not because i dont believe you ,but because I have never read that, would like to study it. If needed I can give you some. every military historian I read gave a different view ,of course ,I have only read American authors.There were singlar commanders like Gudariun that tried to instill this with some success but not on the whole. Also I you dont have any handy thats fine between work,family and projects dont have much time.
DeMaw1,
There's a very good book called 'Fighting Power: German and U.S. Army Performance, 1939-1945' - it's used by the USMC and it explains in detail the theory, doctrine, tactics, development of all, etc. of the German armed forces in WW2. It goes into great detail about battlefield leadership, etc. There's also some specific papers that were written by U.S. Army officers after WW2 and if you can wait a few months I've got the paper ID #s and you can order copies of the papers themselves.
The short and grossly simplified version is this - WW2 Germany had a professional army and had had one for some time. WW2 America had a small professional cadre leading a 'conscript' (in terms of military skill - I know many were volunteers) army. Mistakes were made - promising battlefield NCOs and Officers in the U.S. Army were often promoted out of battlefield leadership. This, combined with the USAAF and armored units getting the 'pick of the litter' in terms of replacements led to the actual infantry units of the U.S. Army having to deal with some very severe situations in terms of adequate #s of experiened battlefield NCOs and Officers, etc.
I would love to get you some links to great sources but I am really pressed for free time right now. And with the 438 page application for FDB membership still unfinished I really have to get going. :) I'll look you up in a couple of months.
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by Jackal1
OK, maybe I missed it...
According to them, on the day they got married ,they did not have enough money to eat at one of the finer establishments to celebrate their wedding , so they dined at Wendys. ... Miss Ketchup and Tomatoe sauce worth millions, no make that billions, couldn`t afford anything but Wendys?
It is a tradition of Mr. & Mrs Edwards, not the Kerrys.
[cheap shot] It looks like Mrs. Edwards eats there more than once a year[/cheap shot]
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Wuffle, Thank you very much.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo...I believe ya , language I am sure was the problem,I honestly cant imagine anyone saying our military have no guts.
This is the problem as I see it. Here we have some foreigners (in this case, French), trying to have a discussion in English. Some here misinterpret the basic message of what they're trying to say. Instead of continuing in a civil, mature manner, we tend to start with the countrybashing and mudslinging.
With all that's been said, do you really think Straffo and anyone else here truly Hates us? He made a statement based on an image which he misinterpreted. He made his statement based on the customs of the French military as he understood it. Instead of asking for clarification, some have to jump on the "he hates America!" bandwagon and start throwing real insults his way. A wee bit over the top, over sensitive reactions, don't you think?
Or do you REALLY think he hates America?
Originally posted by demaw1
SABUROS....just a couple points.
I think you again jump at America a little to fast, Straffo early on call them cowards doesnt matter the content he did...There are still enough of us left in America that will react to that and not bash America first.
Hold your horses, sir! Since when am I "jumping at America?!" Who here is the sole voice of America? Who voted them in? Because I happen to disagree with a fellow American, I'm jumping at America? So, what's it gonna be? No disagreements? No arguments? Who the hell put you in charge to make judgements like that? I sure as hell don't go around whining that someone is "anti-American" just because of some disagreements on a BBS.
Some here need a clue to what an America hater, and Anti-American is. It sure isn't some members of a Flight Sim BBS that volunteer to have some discussions/disagreements on current topics. Our REAL enemies aren't typing on this BBS, they are busy planning their next attack. Save your hate for our enemies. They deserve it. This BBS is like a big family. We're on the same side. No one here wishes us ill will.
Let's keep this in context shall we?
Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo has called me a few names,dont care they werent harmfull..lol not like borodas...still sofften up a little, we all have been calling each outer names since our sisters took our first bottle from us .Also it just isnt in here,but the world does it every day, day in day out .
Here's the difference. Go back and look at straffo's posts (I'm only going by memory here). You show me where he puts down our country? Yet we bash his. There's a difference from insulting one individually and that of insulting their whole country. I seem to recall his individual insults came after someone bashed his country.
Don't take out on him (or anyone else in this BBS) what is deserved of our enemies. He's just not our enemy. If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you.
If you see him make a comment that you take exception to, then respond like the mature adults we're supposed to be, with questions and facts. Chances are it's an interpretation thing. Different culture, different language. I'll say it again, the French people posting here are not our enemy. They do not hate America. They are our friends, our guests. Let's try and be civil, eh?
Originally posted by demaw1
about selective memory: yes we had french help in the form of mercinaries...and yes after 2 years ben franklin with help from lafeeatte[please forgivespellingI have no idea but he was an amazing man] managed to send a french fleet..but,the fleet
stayed away from any fighting unless they found a british ship by itself goin home or coming in.Near the end of the war[no certain time] after washington crossed the delaware Lord Nelson said [forsure paraphasing] We british will lose this war,not because they are mightier or braver than us ,but because I now know we are fighting a spiritual war and for the first time in Englands history God is on their side.He sent this message back to England 2 ways.The French captured 1 of the ships and read the dispatch.They waited untill they were sure of American victory before entering the war as they didnt want a war with England.Yes they picked the right time to come in, but the war was near over anyway.This does not deminish what they did,just tells a little of the geo politics at the time.
...and if they didn't enter on our behalf, the English might of kept fighting. Who knows?
demaw1,
Don't take what I've posted here as an attack against you or against America. It isn't. It's all about interpretation. I know you love our country. Heck everyone here loves their country. You know what? I also love my country and its people, more than you'll ever know. So much so, that I care about how we look to outsiders when we reduce our discussions into childish rants and mudslinging.
Because we can insult the loudest and biggest does not make us look good.
You may agree or disagree with what I said. In anycase I won't hate anyone here. We're just not enemies.
Regards.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
With all that's been said, do you really think Straffo and anyone else here truly Hates us? He made a statement based on an image which he misinterpreted. He made his statement based on the customs of the French military as he understood it. Instead of asking for clarification, some have to jump on the "he hates America!" bandwagon and start throwing real insults his way. A wee bit over the top, over sensitive reactions, don't you think?
Or do you REALLY think he hates America?
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........................Or maybe we could just ask ourselves" who really gives a rat`s bellybutton one way or another?" and try to struggle on. :D
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Originally posted by Jackal1
........................Or maybe we could just ask ourselves" who really gives a rat`s bellybutton one way or another?" and try to struggle on. :D
Amen.
I never understood why people get upset when those who are completely insignificant get their panties in a bunch. It reminds me of that ant colony I dug up while putting in my pool. I'm sure they were nice ants and I'm sure they were a little put off that I dug up their home, but ultimately, who cares.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It is a tradition of Mr. & Mrs Edwards, not the Kerrys.
[cheap shot] It looks like Mrs. Edwards eats there more than once a year[/cheap shot]
Wheeew..your right. My bad.
That puts things into a whole new light.
We all know what a financial struggle they have had through life. :D
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Saburo.......reply
Of course I dont think you attacked me,and straffo is fine like I said he never said anything my sister hasnt emmm or my wife lol.
No I dont think straffo hates America,by the same token he doesnt like what America stands for or most Americans.Thats ok I dont like the french gov. or most of the french [explaining this is not the point yet]
How can I put this,I believe you only have a sprinkling of todays liberalism mixed with a lot of 20 years ago liberalism.[easy lol] Most conservatives today are like me , except on civil rights, we are just a little to the right of jfk and on civil rights we are a little to the left.Most of us didnt leave the democratic party ,it left us.
I said all that to say this,you tend to see good in everyone and it takes alot to change your mind,unless it is about americans or america .Now that was simplistic in the interist of space.Not a put down,that is just liberals,of course to varing degrees. I see that mans heart is evil from day one and you have to judge actions.
We did not jump on him because he is french but because he called 2 of or brothers in uniform cowards,nothing else matters.
.Many off us went thru the veitnam thing,I might be wrong, but we are not going to allow anyone in this country or abroad treat our brothers and sisters like before.If it is in here or on the street,If we have to have counter protest what ever it takes.
Also remember I said liberals only want to see something good in some one? On our side of the isle we remember that recently 65 percent of europeans believe America is more of a threat to the world than the terriosts.We remember frances role in all this and the fact she was stealing billions from the food for oil deal,and then blamed us for the so called starving kids.Day in and day out, most of these countries, or there newspapers,, or our newspapers ,or many liberals in some way, bash America or Americans.
45percent of canadas kids say we are evil and the cause of worlds problems. Under these circumstances take a step back and look at what happened.1. everything was normal untill he said the marines were cowards 2 In the real world ,thats it ,here or in a bar, or on school grounds. 3 some responses were hard,some mild I think mine was in the middle,but respond we will.4. after a bit some of us decided there was more to it than what was on the surface..look at what I said to him before I posted to you,others did the same and some didnt.thats it end of story.It is not up to us to know about his lanaguage,or traditions or anything else and when he said it was a mistake we accepted it for the most part.
So no it was not over the top....no one me included thinks we are the sole voice of america....clarification wasnt needed,all of us here and around the world knows what the word coward means....it was me that said I thought you jump at america a little to fast and under the circumstances and the sequance of events I still do. Yet I fail to see where I was trying to stop debate or arguement or anything.
The bbs is not a big family,it is people as you can see devided as the country is liberal and conservative, no big deal here in bbs that I can see.....
Saburo, you got to wake up and smell the coffee,yes there are those in here that hate america, and americans..
There are americans in here that dispise america,conservatives,and christians. Just the way it is.
But most of all,most of the world hates us.We stand for something,most of us know evil from good...Those that ignore or embrace evil will always hate those that reconize and fight evil.
Respectfully,demaw
PS i will go back and look at straffo post.
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(a very quick and short post)
Like I explained I over reacted thinking they were subject to the same rugulation the French troop have.
Plus I admit my post was far from clear (I guess it's what happen when you write 1st in French then translate)
I was wrong and I apologise for this.
Never my intent was to bash the Marine corp,never was my intent to bash Americas troop even if my post it let think it was the case.
(I hope it's clear now)
Otherwise if I had be an America basher at heart I'll have jumped on the bandwagon about the Abou Ghraib affair to have cheap shot on the US troops.
I don't have.
I plead guilty to over reacting from time to time even being close to perfection myself (I'm French you know :p) and almost a living deity :p.
For the rest I represent me and myself only I don't pretend all the French think like me or share my opinion , don't take my words as the official position of France (don't take either Chirac word too :))
I've to leave,I will complete this post later.
Ps : those frequenting the O'club should know that when someone throw mud at France I thow mud myself with an equal or more violent intensity.
But if you have a legitimate interrogation and stay civil I'll even give informations about what ashame me in my country , I don't think my country is all white and innocent ,some decision made for the "good" of my country still ashame me (think of the Rainbow Warrior for example).
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Originally posted by straffo
(I'm French you know :p)
I've to leave,I will complete this post later.
Ps : those frequenting the O'club should know that when someone throw mud at France I thow mud myself with an equal or more violent intensity.
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Naw, your French. You throw like a girly man. :D
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Straffo, I thought they taught you not to play with turds when you were a kid... I see you still enjoy stirring it :D
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I've been searching for this story on the web... I can't find it on anything other than blog sites. Isn't it funny that there's no mention of it in the established media? You think that picture will just fade away now?
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Originally posted by Preon1
I've been searching for this story on the web... I can't find it on anything other than blog sites. Isn't it funny that there's no mention of it in the established media? You think that picture will just fade away now?
No, it is not in the least surprising. You expect the media to put out something like that about their chosen boy?
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Naw, your French. You throw like a girly man. :D
Well perhaps after October it will be very "tendance"/"fashion" :p
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Originally posted by straffo
Well perhaps after October it will be very "tendance"/"fashion" :p
Not if the negative "bounce" he received after the high point of his campaign is any indication.
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Straffo....its over done with, so forget it,we understand.ok?
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Aww cut straffo some slack....He has to put up with us bad mouthing him and his country all the time in here. ..
And Staffo, don't be ashamed of your country for the RAINBOW WARRIOR incident. Those tree huggers needed to be taught a lesson. Our Navy rammed one of their ships and damaged it quite badly off the coast of Florida for interfering with an SSBN's missile test and nobody here batted an eye BECAUSE THEY DESERVED IT!:D
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Originally posted by Martlet
Not if the negative "bounce" he received after the high point of his campaign is any indication.
Not that it will have any impact for me whatever president the Us citizen choose => so I don't really care who will be elected :)
As a right-wing democrate president is not very different than a right-wing republican president for me :D
comunisme rullezs I did wrote that ???:p
Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo....its over done with, so forget it,we understand.ok?
no problem for me :)
Originally posted by Coolridr
Aww cut straffo some slack....He has to put up with us bad mouthing him and his country all the time in here. ..
And Staffo, don't be ashamed of your country for the RAINBOW WARRIOR incident. Those tree huggers needed to be taught a lesson. Our Navy rammed one of their ships and damaged it quite badly off the coast of Florida for interfering with an SSBN's missile test and nobody here batted an eye BECAUSE THEY DESERVED IT!:D
I would have agree with you but my real problem is that a man was killed in this operation :(