Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 68DevilM on July 31, 2004, 10:25:14 AM
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man i promise this wont be another, i hate hoe'rs post, becuase now i try to avoid them and get around on them on the next pass, but man ill see a guy come nose first at me and ill dive slightly under him to avoid his hoe but these guys really seem to be going to great legnhts to hoe, because thier still getting hits on me, what the hell am i suppose to do? is it me are are they just getting desperate for a kill?
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Its you one can always avoid a Ho, and if you happen to get shoot down so what get back up in a plane and learn what not to do for the next flight.
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Originally posted by Pawz
Its you one can always avoid a Ho, and if you happen to get shoot down so what get back up in a plane and learn what not to do for the next flight.
hmm that was'nt very informative pawz:rolleyes:
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It takes two to HO.
Dont complain about HO'ing that much, it happens to me at least once a day at the most. And if they come at ya, just start shooting from 1.5 k to make them manuever and then pull up and make an aileron turn on them.
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Originally posted by RTSigma
It takes two to HO.
Dont complain about HO'ing that much, it happens to me at least once a day at the most. And if they come at ya, just start shooting from 1.5 k to make them manuever and then pull up and make an aileron turn on them.
why bite into his hoe, im not gonna let him kill me that easy
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When they HO they immediately set themselves up at a disadvantage--especially if you are under them at the merge. They are pulling G's and losing angles at the same time. To avoid the HO and increase your built-in advantage, point yourself further away from their nose. Merge further under.
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ohh i know!
but man i must have a fricken sign on my plane that says "HOE ME" because just today i was hoe attempted like at least 20 times in a two hour period, i think only one actually gave me a pilot wound
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Sounds like you are setting yourself up. It takes 2 to HO. Usually the only times I resort to the HO is when I'm outnumbered or at a severe disadvantage.
You can spoil the HO merge by rolling with a bit of rudder added. This can also help you set up for the post merge attack.
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If your plane turns better then theirs you should perform a "Lead Turn" anyway. If you can't turn as well as opponent you should cut as much "Flight Path Seperation" as possible on merge. I find it amusing when someone in a Spit wants to HO my G-10, when what they should do is a lead turn prior to the merge then perform a "Nose to Nose" turn after merge while I'm trying to perform a "Nose to Tail" turn after merge. If you have ever read any true stories of fighter combat you will find the HO was used alot. If you doubt what I say just check out this book by Robert L. Shaw.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2u3BUNXTGU&isbn=0870210599&itm=5
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Duck under and Chandelle, good bet that HO'er is gonna flat turn after the merge, works for me, most of the time...
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
man i promise this wont be another, i hate hoe'rs post, becuase now i try to avoid them and get around on them on the next pass, but man ill see a guy come nose first at me and ill dive slightly under him to avoid his hoe but these guys really seem to be going to great legnhts to hoe, because thier still getting hits on me, what the hell am i suppose to do? is it me are are they just getting desperate for a kill?
can you say,....newbies? ,.... sure,.... I knew you could.
Anim
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As has been said before, it takes 2 for a HO. To avoid getting hit, simply do a barrel roll adding a little bit of rudder. Easy, then after the merge go vertical, works every time for me.
Edit: I've never understood ppl complaining about H2H passes, apparently they fail to realize that they can do something about it. A H2H pass is mostly carried out by 2 planes, you're in one of them, so what do you do? Blame it on the other guy? "It was his fault." That is so lame, and really shows your age.
Pilots who actually went for a H2H pass either had more balls than brains or were in such a disadvantageous position that he saw it as his only real chance to hit the enemy. HO passes were rare because most pilots had at the very least some will to survive.
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You seeing the general drift here devil???
Start dinving under their nose when they are 3k away.
Time your roll so that when they are 300 out your 3/4 through, showing them a ducking, moving knife edge. It also sets you up for that immelman after.
Low E loss zoom will 9 times out of 10 put you above them on & in a position to go nose down, & roll onto their 6.
After that its all easy.
BTW don't confuse a front quarter shot in a manuver fight with a HO where you start 5k away, level & fast.
2 different birds entirely.
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One thin I liked about AW---front profile, as far as hit bubble went, was VERY small, and HO shots were such poor percentage as to be a waste of ammo (unless ya have 303'2 or 7 mm's on board...then....no great loss)
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dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.
It takes 2 to *complete* an HO, like it or not. it only takes 1 to roll out of it. Playing chicken when someone attempts to HO you is YOUR mistake.
NEXT!!!!
Anim
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
It takes 2 to *complete* an HO, like it or not. it only takes 1 to roll out of it. Playing chicken when someone attempts to HO you is YOUR mistake.
NEXT!!!!
Anim
Of course, unless you're smart enough to sissor the arswipe.
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Yes it does take two to HO
You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.
Whereas if you do a HO pass holding the nose straight without manuvering to avoid the shot then you are going HO even if you dont shoot.
By and large a good deal of so called HO shots, arent
Many of them are deflection shots.
Some guys here seem to manage to get the shot even if HO avoiding tactics are used I swear some folks seem to be able to get their planes to fly sideways cause thats the only way they were able to get that kinda shot on me.
Could be blamed on lag I suppose but even with lag some of these shots are at awful crazy angles
I gave up trying to figure that one out.
I remember long ago and far away in the first year or so I played AW It was almost an unwriten rule that you didnt fire (or HO) on the initial merge and all dogfighting seemed to happen after the first merge at which point anything went.
Those were the days when calls of "bingo ammo" had meaning and as a point of honor you would let that pilot go especially if he just gave you a gopod fight and was obviously trying to egress provided you got and understood the message before you blew said opponent out of the sky. And often if you did and realised it it wasnt uncommon to see messages like "Sorry didnt realise you were bingo"
I remember one time when I first got the hang of the 38 in AW I ended up fighting and killing one atfter the other no less then 6 planes I musta really been in "the zone" cause no sooner would I kill one then another would show up and I'd kill him . Several times I tried to egress but one after the other would show up and I'd killed that one too.
Finally I just managed to find the time to type "I JUST WANNA GO HOME!" I musta proved myself worthy cause the next message I saw was fropm one of them saying "go ahead and land. Good fights "
To me that showed true honor and class.
But
Very rapidly Any form of honor amongst pilots has gone out the window first it degraded to only being seen in the morning hours when only a few people were on to its current form of being non existant.
I kinda miss those days. There were folks around that could really be described as a class act
But I know full well those days are long gone and never to return.
Now for the vast majority its all about the kill no matter how you get it. Gangbang, Horde, spawn camping, Mass vulching just for the sake of vulching (not to be mistaken for a feild capture attempt)
and yes HOing
Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.
IMO if you are going HO and make no attempt to avoid getting shot at you DESERVE to be shot down because you are BEGGING for it! Diving as an attempt to avoid a HO is valid but it only transform the HO into a deflection shot, as DREDIOCK already said. I've seen many pilots make a slight turn, dive, climb or even roll to avoid getting hit, only to find out that I can sideslip using rudder and still have a good chance of hitting them. The ONLY way to avoid that shot is to do a barrel roll or some other form of continious direction/movement change maneuver, until you merge.
Oh and I don't pretend that it takes 2 for a HO, I know it for a fact. Try accomplishing a HO with someone who doesn't wanna do it and find out for yourself. :lol
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes it does take two to HO
You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.
thats what i do!
useually both planes are trying to merge on eachother, and we'll come at eachother head on, sometimes im inverted because imm looking at his nose trying to givemyself enough room to get arond him and, sometimes it works sometimes they just yank up or push down on thier stick as hard as they can and catch me with some rounds.. any angle, unless im a good 600 under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?
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I have tried to avoid any and all HO's. It was very tireing getting shot down by this tactic. Trying to avoid it is only somewhat effective....La7s are the worst, and here IMHO is why.
When this happens you are desperatly trying to get under/around the plane that is attempting the HO. Problem for me is I am at a low E state following a turn, or any number of reasons. With planes that accelerate fast "such as the La" they have an maneuver advantage because there speed is higher. Even if your plane will out turn him he is higer E and able to get that HO shot/deflection shot that some call it. I have been very succesfull in avoiding it in AH 2 with the new FM. I feel that keeping E is so much more important now. Keep the speed up and you will avoid them more often than not. But when you are caught slow the HOers will alot of times get you.
Flying in the SE arena where you only have 1 life, you notice a completly different mentality and this HO is avoided like the plauge. If only there could be a way to keep people from trying the HO's in MA....how about perking late war planes!!! Sorry for the Hijack:D
RHIN0
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did better tonight!
got some good kills, kept my speed up, made it the last man in a fight, with bigger numbers, made it home and, avoided hoes "like the plauge":)
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Heres what I do.
When they come at me HO, I immediately know that they are at a disadvantage. Why? Because as they fire at me, I can manuever into a good position to reverse on them. Most people know this, unless they are the one HOing.
So, as they come at me I dip the nose down, hard, around 1.5k or so, just outside of guns range. As they follow me down, they miss because of the steep dive angle Im at. Then, as they fly over, I just go into a loop. If they extend, I find myself higher than them, and can just do it again if they come HOing at me. Sooner or later they will get bored and move on or just try to turn with me.
If they do a horizontal turn, then the looping puts you on their 6 and it will be fairly easy to get a firing solution.
If they do a loop, just go level and use that time to gain a little bit of E. As they come close, point the nose up and put them in a rope-a-dope.
Its fairly easy to beat the HO. All you have to do is not give and and dont lose your cool if you get a hit or 2 on you.
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quote:
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes it does take two to HO
You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.
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thats what i do!
useually both planes are trying to merge on eachother, and we'll come at eachother head on, sometimes im inverted because imm looking at his nose trying to givemyself enough room to get arond him and, sometimes it works sometimes they just yank up or push down on thier stick as hard as they can and catch me with some rounds.. any angle, unless im a good 600 under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?
quote by 68devilm 4 posts back
__________________
FEAR THE REAPER NO MORE, FEAR THE 68TH
:)
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i get more then 50% of people trying to get out of the way of my HO shot when im flying my Mosquito i just zoom in on there plane see what there trying Roll or split S then i fire a ton of 20mms way ahead of them and i get them more then not
tho i dont like doing HO shots in single Eng fighters maybe a 190a-8
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
quote: another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?
There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.
This type of seemingly random maneuvering only happens when a pilot is already out of E (on the deck) with someone chasing him right on his tail. Simply put, it is just a desperate pilot trying to avoid getting shot. :)
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Originally posted by simshell
i get more then 50% of people trying to get out of the way of my HO shot when im flying my Mosquito i just zoom in on there plane see what there trying Roll or split S then i fire a ton of 20mms way ahead of them and i get them more then not
tho i dont like doing HO shots in single Eng fighters maybe a 190a-8
see stuff like this, is what this post intent was.
im just gonna start shooting rockets into ur cockpits from now on:D
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
quote:
under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?
quote by 68devilm 4 posts back
:)
LOL that is probably the stupidest tactic used in the game. certainly the most comical.
I think they are trying to get me to laugh to death.
Once they start doing that I know they are already dead its just their bodies dont know it yet
I see people doing that I just hold my fire reduce throttle just enough to stay behind em and wait for them to either stop or auger.
Yanno whats even funnier is when they stop, you ping em and they panic and start doing it all over again.
Eventually they have bled off so much e doing this they might as well jus fly straight. You can just aim at the center of their axis and slice em and dice em with ease till they fall apart
A simple barrelroll is far more effective
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Originally posted by 33Vortex
There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.
This type of seemingly random maneuvering only happens when a pilot is already out of E (on the deck) with someone chasing him right on his tail. Simply put, it is just a desperate pilot trying to avoid getting shot. :)
is called "Jinking" or a "Gun Jink"
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gota admit that when i first started seeing this "tactic"?
it almost confused me because i couldnt tell witch way he was gonna go but now i just let him basically kill himself:aok
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.
Heh, I learned a long time ago to not assume the other pilot is going to be as "honorable" as I am, and not face shoot. Most people will take th eopportunity to shoot you in the face if you present it to them. Prolly cause they assume you're going to do the same to them.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
is called "Jinking" or a "Gun Jink"
No ... its called "stick stirrin'" and seems to be one of the most favorite moves of those planes that have fast roll rates. Combine that with the "dolphin" move and you are witness to one of the most unbelieveable human endurance spectacles on earth.
I fail to believe that if someone were to try these moves in RL, that their eyeballs would not rupture and their stomachs turn inside out.
As others have pointed out, 98% of the time these so-called moves are fruitless and lead to bleeding of E and eventually death ... either by their own hand or bullets eventually ripping thru their aircraft.
Somehow, I would like to see if HT can decipher these extra-ordinary moves and engage the "don't move the controls so rapidly" message.
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I always HO :D
If it were real combat, honestly I would take any shot I got, HO or not. One solution to the problem is to invert or roll into the HO as you fire, with the new gunnery model it makes it terribly difficult to hit you and there is a pyshcological effect to fighting an upside down enemy :aok
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For the past couple of days I have found many players, about 1/3, do not open fire on the merge. As I stated earlier I try to cut as much "flight path seperation" as possible on merge if I'm in a poor turning aircraft. When this happens I have found that my opponit is a better stick then me and it turn out to be a good fight. I do not open fire unless the other person opens fire, but if I am protecting a goon I will take a head on shot.
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If it were real combat, honestly I would take any shot I got, HO or not.
If that is the case you would be a dead pilot quick. Its different when your playing a game versus playing with your life. I highly doubt you would stand on one end of a field with a machine gun stand in the open, with another dude on the other end...and fire at each other till one died. Would be the same thing, neither makes sense. You rarely see the HO when you play in SE arena with one life. There is no consequence to death in this game, thats why you see so much reckless attitude in the MA.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by kevykev56
If that is the case you would be a dead pilot quick. Its different when your playing a game versus playing with your life. I highly doubt you would stand on one end of a field with a machine gun stand in the open, with another dude on the other end...and fire at each other till one died. Would be the same thing, neither makes sense. You rarely see the HO when you play in SE arena with one life. There is no consequence to death in this game, thats why you see so much reckless attitude in the MA.
RHIN0
Perfect ... :aok
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Co Alt merge headons are easy to avoid, but still classless. You would expect more from some of the "good" pilots in the game...but they still do it.
The HOs that really bother me are the ones from the BnZers, or people with alt advantage. They are hard to defend against. You only have a couple of choices, and showing your rear end is not a good one. Split S is just freakin dumb. The only real way to defend a BnZer is to climb up to thier attacks and dont fall for the rope. But that usually means HOs. If they are dumb, you will evintually get them. If they are smart, they will either get you or escape unhurt.
The problem seems magnified in the P38 which is what I fly. Its a large target for HOs and also a magnet for Pilot wounds. I swear ive had more one ping PWs than I care to count.
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Why do people insist that real fighter pilots did not HO? Most people are so scared and adrenalin pumped that they will get in a hurry at take the head shot. Remember most fighter pilots were, and are, in their early 20's and who said men at that age are smart. People who choose to be real fighter pilots like to take chances and think they can not die. When I was that age I would ride my bike at 160MPH down the Highway or on back roads, would not think about doing it now. Many of you must forget what you were like when you were younger.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
No ... its called "stick stirrin'" and seems to be one of the most favorite moves of those planes that have fast roll rates. Combine that with the "dolphin" move and you are witness to one of the most unbelieveable human endurance spectacles on earth.
I fail to believe that if someone were to try these moves in RL, that their eyeballs would not rupture and their stomachs turn inside out.
As others have pointed out, 98% of the time these so-called moves are fruitless and lead to bleeding of E and eventually death ... either by their own hand or bullets eventually ripping thru their aircraft.
Somehow, I would like to see if HT can decipher these extra-ordinary moves and engage the "don't move the controls so rapidly" message.
another thing, my controls would lock up in a heart beat attempting the stick stiring thing. not for me
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?
Indeed, stick stirring. Pretty pathetic to watch, is it not? Makes you kinda wish the guy had the guts to die like a man. ;) Cause of course he's gonna die anyway, once he's bled enough E.
I've seen quite a bit of this lately. Oh well. Easy kill. :)
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Originally posted by Xargos
For the past couple of days I have found many players, about 1/3, do not open fire on the merge. As I stated earlier I try to cut as much "flight path seperation" as possible on merge if I'm in a poor turning aircraft. When this happens I have found that my opponit is a better stick then me and it turn out to be a good fight. I do not open fire unless the other person opens fire, but if I am protecting a goon I will take a head on shot.
so i guess this goes back to the "how to tell if you up against good fighter? mabet not but it is a good tell tale of a posible good fight!!!:D
and if he does open up at me head on he better hope he kills me on the first pass:aok
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Originally posted by kevykev56
When this happens you are desperatly trying to get under/around the plane that is attempting the HO. Problem for me is I am at a low E state following a turn, or any number of reasons.
Maybe I'm not following your situation, but I don't see this as an inherent problem. Generally if you have enough E to point your nose at him, you have enough E to avoid him too. And if you have so little E left that you can't change direction fast enough to avoid it, then you probably don't have enough E left to even aim for the HO anyway. In that sense he (or his buddies) has already beaten you, and his HO shot is legitimate.
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Originally posted by phookat
Maybe I'm not following your situation, but I don't see this as an inherent problem. Generally if you have enough E to point your nose at him, you have enough E to avoid him too. And if you have so little E left that you can't change direction fast enough to avoid it, then you probably don't have enough E left to even aim for the HO anyway. In that sense he (or his buddies) has already beaten you, and his HO shot is legitimate.
hmm thought about it, and best answer i could come up with is that i dont want to drop too far beneath him alowing him to get on top of me that quickly, i like to come close enough to him that im at max e and by the time hes turned around on, and drained all of his e, ill still be going 400, and ill just simple pull the nose up give it a little flaps and reverse on him, this is at least 60-70% the first set of moves i find when closeing. the others i just imprevise;)
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When Im in a 110G or a buff I always go for a headon. In all other rides I try to avoid because I usually lose the battle. Some guys are very accurate at long range headon.
Coming from AW where the headon was pretty much non-existant I didnt like it much at first either. But..it could happen, and does in the game. Its almost always avoidable.
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And if you have so little E left that you can't change direction fast enough to avoid it, then you probably don't have enough E left to even aim for the HO anyway.
Your look at the situation I am trying to explain is correct. It is a failure on the pilots part if you allow your E to drop to a point at wich you cant avoid the HO. This is my explanation of why it seems unavoidable. The AC you are engaged with has a high acceleration generating E quicker than your plane therfore has the ability to kill you on a HO when you are desperatly trying to avoid it. Doesnt necessarily mean however that you cant get your guns up on him. This is and was a learning experience for me. I am just explaining how I avoid the HO. Its all about keeping your E high when in with an AC that can out accelerate your plane.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by phookat
Indeed, stick stirring. Pretty pathetic to watch, is it not? Makes you kinda wish the guy had the guts to die like a man. ;) Cause of course he's gonna die anyway, once he's bled enough E.
I've seen quite a bit of this lately. Oh well. Easy kill. :)
I've survived many times by "jinking" maneuvers, avoiding getting hit, or at least avoiding getting hit critically. A few times I've been chased across sectors that way, on the deck... all I can say is the guy must be a poor shot, and I'm lucky. :)
It may be fun to watch but it can still be effective.
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Originally posted by 33Vortex
I've survived many times by "jinking" maneuvers, avoiding getting hit, or at least avoiding getting hit critically. A few times I've been chased across sectors that way, on the deck... all I can say is the guy must be a poor shot, and I'm lucky. :)
It may be fun to watch but it can still be effective.
Its an easy kill. Used to confuse me at first till I figured it out.
I used to do what most people do I imagine, and that is to fire where tyou think the plane is going to go.
No
Watch that jink twist spin flipflop move, look for and ain at the center of its axis.
Open fire you see parts fly off almost every time.
Usually is enough to either kill em or get em to try something different
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what bothers me about that move is that the guy is spining so fast that he starts Warping everware
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Originally posted by SlapShot
No ... its called "stick stirrin'" and seems to be one of the most favorite moves of those planes that have fast roll rates. Combine that with the "dolphin" move and you are witness to one of the most unbelieveable human endurance spectacles on earth.
As others have pointed out, 98% of the time these so-called moves are fruitless and lead to bleeding of E and eventually death ...
I was giving the word "JINK or GUN JINK" for what 33Vortex was explaining see below:
Originally posted by 33Vortex
There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.
StickStirring is not a good technique, it is ole god I am gonna die I got to yank my stick all over flying.........
all be it you and I come from different ideas of what things are called........
Originally posted by SlapShot
Somehow, I would like to see if HT can decipher these extra-ordinary moves and engage the "don't move the controls so rapidly" message.
from all the complaints I have seen on txt buffer and heard in game, thought this was already addressed some, seems alot of people been getting that message.
btw, 33Vortex was explaining good techniques in regards to the stickstirring reply he quoted, You are right slapshot about alot of stick stirring going lately, just to clear it up so we all on the same page.:)
bad defensive maneuvering = stick stirring
good defensive maneuvering = scissors, rolling scissors, break turns, Jinks, Gun Jinks
anyhow, all defensive situations requiring the above mentioned maneuvering is bad place to be to start with:)
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Originally posted by Ghosth
You seeing the general drift here devil???
Start dinving under their nose when they are 3k away.
Time your roll so that when they are 300 out your 3/4 through, showing them a ducking, moving knife edge. It also sets you up for that immelman after.
Low E loss zoom will 9 times out of 10 put you above them on & in a position to go nose down, & roll onto their 6.
After that its all easy.
BTW don't confuse a front quarter shot in a manuver fight with a HO where you start 5k away, level & fast.
2 different birds entirely.
Was going to post something but this is it right here... no need to read the rest.
Nose down and roll when in close. Suckers them into the HO and gives you an alt and e-advantage by the time they turn. You might even get lucky and rope them on the up and over; as they go for the next HO. :aok
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If anybody has any films of manuvers to avoid a HO, I would love to see them!
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Originally posted by twitchy
If anybody has any films of manuvers to avoid a HO, I would love to see them!
I have some going up VERY soon.
But try this,....
Everyone mentions the nose under, but never really finish the ACM text.
I do 1 of 3 things depending. Granted, this worked alittle better in AW because the HO hit bubble was smaller, but still, this should help.
Keep your your nose right on him, as if playing chicken. JUST before you come into gun range nose down, not a lot but you want to go well under him, don't worry about where he's going yet. As you pass under you are now in a blind spot, he has NO idea exactly what you are doing. I usually slightly nose down at about 1,200 dist. Also at this point your E is building, his isn't if he doesn't nose down too.
As you go under him\her watch the bottum of their plane, because what you want to do is yank that stick up just as the tail passes over you. You want to come up REAL fast and just missing the tail. That building of E you got from nosing down comes in handy right now, because now you are faster then him. The most he MAY see of you is if he rear views, and all he's MAY see is you shoot straight up behind him, most of the time they never see this happen. When you just miss the tail you know your timing is OK, key factor.
NOW you are above him, keep pulling the stick back until you become inverted over him. He's may try to nose down for E, if not he's yours that much quicker. You're going to see that you are now way above him, inverted and looking down on him like a vulcher.
While inverted, you look up, which is actually down at him. Now, no matter what he does you see where he's going and you roll back up-right in his direction, now you're on his 6. Even if he trys to roll out, you can still park your nose on his 6. Sometimes you'll pull this off inverted.
You must do all of this VERY quickly as to retain the E you got during nose down.
Now that you are above him and roll onto his 6 you are nose down again, and building more E on top of what you already have. You'll close in on him pretty quickly.
Retainging the E from the first build until the next build is essential
basically you're going to sissor him for HOing you. ;-)
PRACTICE this move until timing is perfected. You will not believe how many HOs become honest kills using this method.
And yes, I have pulled this off in AH before.
Another that I would call an escape is to barrel roll out just before in range, roll under him and shoot off to a side. Don't give the punk the satifaction of the HO.
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Actually, once you come up behind him it becomes more of a Split-S type maneuver. I miss spoke.
;-)
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Originally posted by kevykev56
Your look at the situation I am trying to explain is correct. It is a failure on the pilots part if you allow your E to drop to a point at wich you cant avoid the HO. This is my explanation of why it seems unavoidable. The AC you are engaged with has a high acceleration generating E quicker than your plane therfore has the ability to kill you on a HO when you are desperatly trying to avoid it. Doesnt necessarily mean however that you cant get your guns up on him.
I agree. But I think the word "unavoidable" to some folks has the connotation of "undeservedly unavoidable". Just pointing out that there is a "deservedly unavoidable" as well. ;)
Originally posted by kevykev56
This is and was a learning experience for me. I am just explaining how I avoid the HO. Its all about keeping your E high when in with an AC that can out accelerate your plane.
True. Speed is life, even more so in this case.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Its an easy kill. Used to confuse me at first till I figured it out.
I used to do what most people do I imagine, and that is to fire where tyou think the plane is going to go.
No
Watch that jink twist spin flipflop move, look for and ain at the center of its axis.
Open fire you see parts fly off almost every time.
Usually is enough to either kill em or get em to try something different
I find that the more devious stirrers modulate their stirring so as to randomly change direction, and not just orientation. It still seems like stuff that would rip your eyeballs out IRL, but I can't say for sure. In any case, these types require more patience--you have to let them drain E so they can't change direction so quickly. Then they're toast. Just takes longer.
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HEHE painted ho,me on all the 68 planes:p
Panman:cool:
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It takes two to HO.
There, I just wanted to mention that in case no one else had mentioned it elsewhere in this thread.
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Originally posted by Drunky
It takes two to HO. There, I just wanted to mention that in case no one else had mentioned it elsewhere in this thread.
welllllll... it only takes one to pull the trigger. :D
one should not HO if one cannot aim.
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Sure it takes 2 to HO when you start 4K out and line up for the shot. Sure you can get out of it if you want to in that situation.
How do you get out of it when you have 1 or 2 reds on your 6 or if you are just trying to get ungles on one red and a second or third bad guy shows up. He makes a turn, you make a turn, and boom, you are facing eachother at d600 (most of the times this is a result of the fight and not intentional. Sometimes its). What then? Do you try to break? You will give the angles to the other bad guy. Do you not pull the triger and hope the other guy doesn't? (this is in the MA environment where people chase wingless wrecks to the ground trying to still a kill. Thats a big risk to take) Do you pull the triger and hoppe you get him before he gets you? What if you pull the triger and he doesn't? . . .
It does not always take 2 to HO and you cannot always avoid it. We could do without the whines when that happens though. If I do it, it was not intentional (unless a goon is present). We happened to line up and I really thought it was not HO or that you would pull the triger. Appologies in advance.
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I was being sarcastic.
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If that is the case you would be a dead pilot quick. Its different when your playing a game versus playing with your life. I highly doubt you would stand on one end of a field with a machine gun stand in the open, with another dude on the other end...and fire at each other till one died. Would be the same thing, neither makes sense. You rarely see the HO when you play in SE arena with one life. There is no consequence to death in this game, thats why you see so much reckless attitude in the MA.
You would be suprised how many pilots did ho. I just finished Blacksheep One and it mentions Boyington taking a Head On shot and winning more than once.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
I have some going up VERY soon.
But try this,....
Everyone mentions the nose under, but never really finish the ACM text.
I do 1 of 3 things depending. Granted, this worked alittle better in AW because the HO hit bubble was smaller, but still, this should help.
Keep your your nose right on him, as if playing chicken. JUST before you come into gun range nose down, not a lot but you want to go well under him, don't worry about where he's going yet. As you pass under you are now in a blind spot, he has NO idea exactly what you are doing. I usually slightly nose down at about 1,200 dist. Also at this point your E is building, his isn't if he doesn't nose down too.
As you go under him\her watch the bottum of their plane, because what you want to do is yank that stick up just as the tail passes over you. You want to come up REAL fast and just missing the tail. That building of E you got from nosing down comes in handy right now, because now you are faster then him. The most he MAY see of you is if he rear views, and all he's MAY see is you shoot straight up behind him, most of the time they never see this happen. When you just miss the tail you know your timing is OK, key factor.
NOW you are above him, keep pulling the stick back until you become inverted over him. He's may try to nose down for E, if not he's yours that much quicker. You're going to see that you are now way above him, inverted and looking down on him like a vulcher.
While inverted, you look up, which is actually down at him. Now, no matter what he does you see where he's going and you roll back up-right in his direction, now you're on his 6. Even if he trys to roll out, you can still park your nose on his 6. Sometimes you'll pull this off inverted.
You must do all of this VERY quickly as to retain the E you got during nose down.
Now that you are above him and roll onto his 6 you are nose down again, and building more E on top of what you already have. You'll close in on him pretty quickly.
Retainging the E from the first build until the next build is essential
basically you're going to sissor him for HOing you. ;-)
PRACTICE this move until timing is perfected. You will not believe how many HOs become honest kills using this method.
And yes, I have pulled this off in AH before.
Another that I would call an escape is to barrel roll out just before in range, roll under him and shoot off to a side. Don't give the punk the satifaction of the HO.
o yes ran into a Yak that tryed this and i riped his wing off with his nose dive 20mms work well for this move trying to get out of my HO shot
tho the best way to defeat a move like this try this
if your flying a plane with alot of speed or a P38 when he trys to come up at you just point your nose up and rope him he will only have 2 choices now get roped or brake and run
have a nice day:)
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Originally posted by simshell
o yes ran into a Yak that tryed this and i riped his wing off with his nose dive 20mms work well for this move trying to get out of my HO shot
tho the best way to defeat a move like this try this
if your flying a plane with alot of speed or a P38 when he trys to come up at you just point your nose up and rope him he will only have 2 choices now get roped or brake and run
have a nice day:)
So, not only do I not beleive a word you wrote, I find it real lame that you pride yourself on HO shots.
HO shots are for newbies who ain't got a clue so it's their only way to get a kill.
I don't care for face shooters it's worthless and weak, and skilless.
Congrats!
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jusy did a ho tonight, and hey some people are right it is a easy way to kill someone fast:D
but i still perfer to pass once
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
jusy did a ho tonight, and hey some people are right it is a easy way to kill someone fast:D
but I still perfer to pass once
Translated: "perfer" but will take it anyways.
Yall complain non-stop about game play in the MA?
I'm not sure I've ever seen so many hypocrit whiners before. It amazes me.
No wonder only 10% of the players read or post here. 50% of that 10% are full of themselves.
damn baby seals, they're so pesty.
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hoed fariz today!:cool:
he needed it, was kicking our butt:lol
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
So, not only do I not beleive a word you wrote, I find it real lame that you pride yourself on HO shots.
HO shots are for newbies who ain't got a clue so it's their only way to get a kill.
I don't care for face shooters it's worthless and weak, and skilless.
Congrats!
They should be all made to fly 50 cal planes for the first 6 months. They get in the big cannon planes and fly around jousting HO's left, right and centre. You learn to avoid Ho's pretty quickly when you only have 50 cal to fire back with.
There are so many doing it I now expect a HO attempt on every merge, and am actually surprised if they don't shoot. Used to be the other way round.
My favourite defense is nose low, partly because every so often one follows you down - goes for the HO , compresses and lawn darts in - that'll make my day every time :)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
hoed fariz today!:cool:
he needed it, was kicking our butt:lol
Ya know, you could keep that striped ball twirling on your nose if you hold your tongue juuuuust right.
baby seals take a while to learn that at first.
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There is one HO I love...its the one when the Vultures are circling and you up a brand new Hurricane IIc and blast him in the face when he comes down to straffe you. All that vulture tastes is lead, right in the beak! Only HO I find acceptable :D
RHIN0
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Originally posted by SlapShot
No ... its called "stick stirrin'" and seems to be one of the most favorite moves of those planes that have fast roll rates. Combine that with the "dolphin" move and you are witness to one of the most unbelieveable human endurance spectacles on earth.
Hoers I can live with cause if I had cannons and came across 50's would likely do the same.
What Slappy says tho is true and such a waste of time and wear and tear on the joystick not to mention gamey for a flight sim.
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I'm different, when the guy is going for the HO on the merge I love it. It opens up so many opportunities. That's when the "fun" begins.
Chess..
..but then I trip on the dog bowl, smack my forehead on the kitchen table on the way down and land on a unseen pile of cat poop under the table..
Unless it's just one. Then "most" of time, it's cake if I can shoot his soggy butt before the gang joins in. Shooting is a sticking point...I fly around reeeel purty but the shooting thing ??
Well, I have a good time regardless.
..I have a shower for the cat poop because recently my house has been equipped with running water.
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
Ya know, you could keep that striped ball twirling on your nose if you hold your tongue juuuuust right.
baby seals take a while to learn that at first.
sorry ftanimal no into circus animals that much
j/k
no fariz is probably one of the best vulchers ive seen, one yak and 12 planes on him, he killed 7 of em while they were still on the ground with me on his six! then he killed 5-6 more and me once. im telling you the mans an animal. fariz seemed unstoppable until by sheer dumb luck he flew head on at 200, got in my sights and i pulled the trigger. split reaction!
so i guess im not any better than the next guy, if the opportunitys there go for your guns. i just never head straight into a fight with the intentions to hoe, ive seen players who seem to always hoe you on the first pass. sometimes i get lucky and rarley it seems to catch someone in my sights that close comeing head on. so what would most of you posters do, take the shot or let him pass?
p.s. FARIZ you have to show me that trick with the yak sometimes:D
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see oppurtunity!!!:rolleyes:
tyred to vulch spit on runway with all the ack up, angle i was at was bad for a hoe and i knew it and went in anyways, and i think i exploded:(
bad call!
:lol :aok